User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 4: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 21:23, 6 June 2018

Archived talk

User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 1 (through Sept 14, 2014)
User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 2 (through Nov 5, 2015)
User talk:Tiddlywinks/Archive 3 (through Feb 22, 2017)

Radiant Sun/Full Moon

Why do we have the Radiant Sun and Full Moon forms on Solgaleo/Lunala's pages and the form differences page? When I added Reshiram's and Zekrom's active forms to their pages it was removed because they aren't counted in the Pokédex like Xerneas's neutral mode, but yet Radiant Sun and Full Moon forms are also not counted in the Pokédex, yet are on their pages. --Celad onkey 15:06, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

In Solgaleo/Lunala's case, the official site called them forms. (Whether that should be OK may be arguable.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:05, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. --Celad onkey 16:12, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Adding on, there are some Pokémon who have form differences recognized by the Pokédex but yet don't have their forms in the box at the top of the page (eg Furfrou). Should they be added? --Celad onkey 14:28, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Rotom is basically the high end of what we're willing to accomodate in the infobox. If there is a strongly compelling reason in the future, we might consider more, but something like Furfrou is simply impractical and relatively trivial—little benefit to worry about including it. It's fine with a gallery. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:39, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Your help

..was unexpected in both "I didn't expect you to help" and "Why exactly did you do that" kind of way. So, thanks for the former, but for the latter, was that more an "oh my Nesci now just get over that class=expandable thing its bad nobody wants that", or rather an "i still have javascript disabled so i must've cleaned up and nothing more ♪♫♪♫"? Nescientist (talk) 10:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

It took me a bit to parse your actual question here...but yes, I don't enable Javascript if I don't need it, and all I saw was apparently pointless HTML tags in the diff. I might've said about as much except I try not to sound too much like an ass (because sometimes people just don't know), so instead of writing something like, "That's weird yo", I just simplified the reason very, very basically.

That said, the first table is super short, collapsing it seems a bit pointless. In fact, actually reading that one, IMO it'd be better to just make those nested bullet points instead of a whole table (like Experience#Gain formula); or just nest the technical note about Gen I-II specifically. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:56, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Um, sorry for being cryptic, I thought you'd remember we already talked about that. Yo.

Thanks for the nested bullet points idea, sounds good, I'll try to see how that might work out. But for the other table, you accidently removed the expandable part (more or less), there wasn't a hidden anti-javascript agenda or something, right? (I know that HTML tags look weird—it's a workaround because for some reason, using * will always push everything down to the next line; so I'd prefer to restore that.) Nescientist (talk) 15:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Hiding the entire table isn't generally the smart thing in any case. If you're going to collapse a table, you can generally just do it right on the table in question. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:23, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Z-Moves

I made a template at User:Celadonkey/Template:Z-Moves to assist with accessibility for Z-Move pages, similar to the "Variations of _" on a lot of move pages. I was wondering if it's ok for me to mainspace it and put it on all the Z-Move pages. --Celad onkey 18:05, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Lemme just ask, do you care if I (fairly) radically change the style and then mainspace it? Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:30, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

No, I don't mind. Go ahead! --Celad onkey 01:38, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

It looks awesome, thanks man. But I really think that having an MS for the species Z-Moves would be beneficial. Is there any way we can still implement it? --Celad onkey 14:55, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

They are pretty. But they make that part relatively big too. I don't think it's so bad since it's all summarized on the Z-Move page too already. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Aether House

If you don't like my edit, find some other way to deal with misleading information that could give people the wrong idea of when Porygon could be collect. I am stating this from an intelligent standpoint, not to show any rudeness. -Tyler53841 (talk) 19:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Never mind, did not see that. -Tyler53841 (talk) 19:51, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

RE:Moving pages

Can you move the page Gracidea (Sinnoh) to Gracidea Garden. After duscussion and waiting a long time, other users agreed and no one opposed the move. See Talk:Gracidea (Sinnoh) for further details. Or can you contact an Editorial Board member, as said on the Bulbapedia:Editorial Board page. Jeangabin666 (talk) 19:18, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Verity Lakefront

You changed Verity Lakefront's text box back to a default text box after I changed it to a route text box. It is stated in the list of routes on Bulbapedia that the Sinnoh lakefronts are routes. It even says on the lakefront page of Bulbapedia that the lakefronts are routes. The three lakefronts are routes, thus deserving a route text box. --RedHailfire (talk) 22:07, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

"List of routes" is not the criteria for deciding whether a location should have a "route" infobox. I'd be hard pressed to define exactly what those criteria are because there are a few places that are not numbered routes where we use a route infobox (and I'm OK with those), but if you want me to, I can try to figure out what the specifics are/should be. For now, though, please trust me that the lakefronts are regular locations, not routes. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:24, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

The lakefront page also states that these areas are routes. Also, if these lakefronts don't get route infoboxes, then why does Spring Path get a route infobox? The lakefronts are much more like routes, for most of the lakefronts actually have tall grass. Spring Path is such an obscure location. --RedHailfire (talk) 22:33, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

To attempt some loose/theoretical explanations, "Spring Path" closely suggests something like a route, so it was perhaps easy to just put Route infobox there. A "lakefront" sounds more like a simple location, however.

This is not strictly justification, but, again, explanation for the current state of things (i.e., a basic answer to your "why"). The presence or absence of tall grass also doesn't really make or break a route, because plenty of locations (like the lakes themselves) have grass, and some routes don't (e.g., Kalos Route 1).

Sort of like I said above, it may be that we should solidify some criteria for what locations deserve Route infobox and which ones deserve Infobox location.

Let me ask (and try to answer this as earnestly as you can): why exactly did you change the template? Was it strictly because there was a route infobox template, and those pages weren't using it even though that's what you thought they were? Or was it more because you wanted to see the connecting locations like routes show them (and thankfully for you, the lakefronts are identified as "routes" in some places)? Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:50, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Another path in Sinnoh, called Seabreak Path, is a path and is considered a route, similar to Spring Path, yet Seakbreak Path doesn't get a route infobox. Seabreak Path is also on the list of routes here on Bulbapedia. I may fix the infobox later, since Seabreak Path is considered a route and a "path." I adjusted the lakefront infoboxes purely because the lakefronts are considered routes, and route infoboxes belong to routes. It makes sense to give a route an infobox literally called a "route infobox." I thought it was just common knowledge. --RedHailfire (talk) 00:55, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I also wasn't suggesting that all routes have tall grass, but most of them do. --RedHailfire (talk) 00:58, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

The contrast of Spring Path and Seabreak Path perhaps gives you your best answer: there probably wasn't any rigorous thought about it all. This is a public wiki. It can be easy for certain "habits" to start small and slowly spread, very possibly via different people, and without perfect rhyme/reason. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:08, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Do you approve of my change of the Seabreak Path infobox? --RedHailfire (talk) 01:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm basically leaving it all alone at the moment. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:23, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Another template I thought might be useful

I'm not sure if there's a need for it, but I made a template User:Celadonkey/Template:Spritebox/MS/1 for menusprites to be used in the sprites section of a Pokemon. I was thinking there would be another for Gen IV, Gen V, Gen VI, and Gen VII Pokemon. This one would be used for Gen 1-3 Pokemon. Is there any that needs to be changed and would there be a need for it in the mainspace? --Celad onkey 21:44, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

I just realized... Would there be any way to do Gen I and Gen II menu sprites? I know that there are just general sprites like "Ball" and "Quadruped". --Celad onkey 22:00, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Just so you both know, the old menu sprites and their Pokémon are listed here. Eridanus (talk) 22:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

This is awesome! I'll try to add this in. - unsigned comment from Celadonkey (talk • contribs)

All updated! Thanks. --Celad onkey 23:53, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Maybe.

One problem about the template is that it basically requires changing when there's a new generation, when it's generally been our goal recently to avoid that in templates with such wide use as all Pokemon.

You can keep it around, but it's not something that can be signed off on easily given its wide effect. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:58, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

True, true. Is there any way I can rework this so that it would not have that problem? --Celad onkey 18:23, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

If you want to try, you're welcome to. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:34, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Alright, but how would I go about doing that? --Celad onkey 18:59, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't know how much you know about templates, but if you need to, I'd suggest checking out your welcome template links or introductions on Wikipedia or elsewhere. Then, you can try looking at what we do with other templates that are designed to avoid this, like dex, availability, and sprites on Pokemon pages.

Beyond that, I don't know how to tell you exactly what to do without just as well doing it myself (which I won't). Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:21, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

I had an idea... What if there were templates for each box I already have (for example, a Gen I menu sprite template) and then those templates would be put together on a "master template" of sorts to be used on the Pokémon's page to make the full chart? This way, instead of all of the templates being modified every time a new generation comes, the sub templates would be adjusted appropriately, or if a new gen has completely new menu sprites, a new sub template would be created and added to the master template. --Celad onkey 15:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

(resetting indent) Actually, it might be a better idea to build the sub-templates on the Pokémon page itself instead of using a master template, because with a master template, we'd need different master templates depending on the game the Pokémon was introduced in - a different template would be needed for Bulbasaur and Dedenne, if that makes any sense. --Celad onkey 15:56, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Does this count?

I found a way to make Rockruff's Pokédex Entry from the anime Japanese. The translation in also there. does this count? - unsigned comment from Hamfart (talk • contribs)

I don't think we add dex entries until they're dubbed. On that understanding, I don't think it should be added.

However, I don't really know the anime. You may wish to direct your question to a staff member who's more familiar instead. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:08, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Weather Trio

The page Weather trio should be moved to Super-ancient Pokémon, an official term. It's been discussed on the talk page since early 2015, but we haven't gotten any response from the staff, but yet... Ataro has made a page Super-ancient Pokémon (Adventures). Can it be moved? --Celad onkey 13:51, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

It sounds to me like you want to talk to Ataro rather than me. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

I dunno, I know that the comics are Ataro's thing and this isn't really a comics thing. I may bring it up to SnorlaxMonster, or someone. Thanks for the help. --Celad onkey 02:00, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Gen VII Images

Hey, I was wondering about how to upload images to the Archives. I have a few images for moves from Generation VII, and I am unable to upload them to the Archives. It says I'm not yet a confirmed user. I saw that you are active on the Archives, so I thought that you might know how to upload these images. --RedHailfire (talk) 03:41, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

The Archives has an autoconfirmed status similar to Bulbapedia. The long and short of it is, if you look around (which may not be an entirely trivial task, but also isn't impossible), you should be able to find some things you can edit/improve on the Archives to earn that status and be able to make uploads.

That said, do be aware that, in order to upload images from 3DS games, you have to have permission first. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:45, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Which page to put name locations on

Hey there! You recently reverted an edit I did to the Gen II base stats structure page, citing that information of default names for Pokémon doesn't fit there (presumably as it's not part of the 32-byte structure). So as not to get in an edit war, I figure we'll hash it out before doing anything. I'd argue it does fit on the base stats structure page, as it - as all the other properties on the page - is something common to and used for all Pokémon of the species. I'd go as far as to say the page shouldn't be about one single data structure (which the page title doesn't really imply, after all), but rather the how base stats of the Pokémon are stored in general.

Putting it on the character encoding page, as you suggested, makes no sense at all: the name data has nothing to do with the encoding of the characters at all, and isn't used in any related contexts. Seeing as the name data is used when creating a Pokémon and on summary screens, just like the rest of the base statistics... I'd say that's the best place. Not putting it anywhere isn't an option either, as that'd simply be withholding potentially useful information, which we of course don't want to do. What do you think? LpSamuelm (talk) 23:27, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Like you say: the list of names is very plainly a very different thing from the list of base stats. You're grasping at reasons to shoehorn that list into the page, when the only truly logical approach is to limit it to a single, readily identifiable structure. Based on what you're saying, we may as well have Gen III's base stats structure and Pokedex data structures on the same page; they're at least based on the same indices, which is basically equivalent to your argument for the list of names.

The best thing you could really argue for would perhaps be a different page altogether, one that could reasonably mention all the data relating to species. That seems like a bit of a weird idea to me, though, so I'm very unsure how such a page would be made, personally.

Anyway, I don't see the base stats structure page as being an appropriate place for it at all. If you have any better suggestions, I'm all ears. I'm basically okay with just saying it fits nowhere and removing it altogether if you think that's best, too. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:13, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't at all follow your extrapolation here. Not sure where the "like you say" part comes from, either - I'm not "grasping", it's quite logical. Here's an a bit more structured summary of how and why they strongly relate:

The "base stats" for a Pokémon is data that's used in any combination of a few ways. Not all of them have to be true for a point of data to be considered "base stats", as is apparent from their inclusion in the main structure. The ways are:
- Informing choices when constructing a Pokémon (wild held item, gender ratio)
- Basic, unchanging values for how the Pokémon acts (types, base stats, egg cycles, dimensions of sprite, growth rate, egg groups, TM/HM flags, catch rate, Exp. yield)
- Basic, unchanging values used on the Pokémon's summary screen (types, base stats, dimensions of sprite)
- And yes, even used in the species's Pokédex entry: the sprite dimensions byte.
In comparison, the default name of a Pokémon is used in the following ways:
- Informing choices when constructing a Pokémon - all wild Pokémon get their names from the list.
- Basic, unchanging value for how the Pokémon acts - if the Pokémon's name differs from the species, it is considered nicknamed, which has an effect when the Pokémon was received in a trade.
- Basic, unchanging value displayed on the Pokémon's summary screen - the species name is simply displayed under the nickname.
- In addition, it is just like the sprite dimension byte used in the species's Pokédex entry.

That's 4/4 of the purposes filled.

It's not really possible to, as you did, extrapolate my argument to combining the Pokédex data (which I was looking at just earlier today for Gen II; should make a nice new page) page with the base stats structure page, as the Pokédex data has no actual impact on the Pokémon. If you edit the Pokédex data, all Pokémon of that species look and act the same, with no difference even to the summary screen. Of course, as I mentioned, "removing it altogether" is not an option - skipping out on providing real information, even if it were to prevent meta-level "shoehorning" (which I really do contest), goes against the very purpose of a wiki. LpSamuelm (talk) 01:43, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

You're talking about base stats as a very abstract concept.

The page Pokémon base stats data structure in Generation II is explicitly about a specific structure, about a contiguous set of data (a list) with entries corresponding to different Pokemon.

The list of names is a WHOLLY different list. It's not logical to conflate both of those things on a page called "Pokémon base stats data structure". It's TWO structures.

Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:52, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

They're two different contiguous data masses in memory, sure, but they're used in the same contexts. I say "Pokémon base stats data structure" can just as well mean "the structure of Pokémon base stats" (which may well include "the data is structured as part of these two parts of memory") as it can, as you assume, "this specific contiguous structure type in memory". Very logical, all in all.

Really - the page in question is the absolute best fit for information on this, hands-down. I'd say it's a really good fit, but even if you don't agree with that, you'd be hard pressed to find a page where it would fit better. LpSamuelm (talk) 02:03, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

The page isn't about context. It's about a specific data structure. The one on the page. Not the list of names.

...I'll go ahead and ask (even though the answer would seem obvious if you're delving this stuff at all): Do you have any experience with computer programming? Because as someone who does, I can tell you, the page title just is NOT interpretable the way you want it to be. (And those pages are by their very nature incredibly technical, meaning that is the most reasonable way to interpret it.) It's one structure. Not anything kinda with the same feel. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:10, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I am a programmer. And I really, really, don't appreciate the condescending tone you're taking. That someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they don't understand. Frankly, the fact that you choose to ask despite saying "the answer would seem obvious" tells me the entire point of the question is to be condescending, which... well, I'm not going to dignify that with further argument.

Now that that's out of the way: I'm definitely qualified to say that yes, it is interpretable that way. Obviously it is, since I'm interpreting that way. It seems to be subjective, though, since you don't agree - you're taking it as a "data structure" (as what you'd call a struct in C, for example), but seeing as the page is called "Pokémon base stats data structure" and not "The Pokémon base stats data structure", it may just as well be taken as "the structure of Pokémon base stats data".

You seem to be dodging a certain question a bit: what page makes for a better fit than that one? LpSamuelm (talk) 02:23, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

I absolutely don't claim to always be the most politic, but I certainly don't mean to be condescending. Mostly I'm just frustrated by your views when it seems so obvious to me. I'm sorry if that comes off wrong.

I'm not dodging any question: I put it where it better belongs. (As you said, you disagree. I guess I didn't see any point in going into that part more; I wanted to focus on what I expected would be a more fruitful direction...) Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:33, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

So, first of all - how come you get to decide where it "better belongs"? Probably because you're a junior admin, huh.

In any case, I definitely oppose it being on the character encoding page. The character encoding is used for the names, sure, but it's also used for everything else in the game. If you put info on the species names there, why not put info on all the locations and structure of dialogue? For the Pokédex descriptions? For the list of items, the list of moves, the list of abilities, the list of trainer types? Because the contents of those have nothing to do with the character encoding except being encoded with it, just like the list of species names. LpSamuelm (talk) 07:38, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Like I said right off the bat...if you want to offer a third solution for where it belongs, I'm all ears. When people have differing opinions, that sort of thing is always a great option if at all possible. You've spent a lot of bytes trying to "prove" your opinion above when I already suggested to you a third option. By all means, try creating some user page to try to address it. I certainly see the point of your complaint; I'm not perfectly happy with it either, but it's better than the only other alternative currently. I would be very happy to have a third option. Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:13, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

And what I'm trying to do is convince you that no, making a separate page is not reasonable at this time (which you've said yourself). However, it is much more reasonable to have it on the page where I put it than on the character encoding page. Do I simply not have a say in the whole thing? You moved it elsewhere, making my initial placement an impossibility? Is that really how it is? LpSamuelm (talk) 13:34, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

(Sorry to intrude on a talk page, but maybe it's helpful.) I think in an ideal world, we should have main "Data structures in Gen X" pages, with lots of sections that mostly link to the articles we already have, and with another section on the Pokémon names.

(Also, if you're interested in a second opinion: I believe if we link to it from the Pokémon structure page (much like we currently do), it should be... fine. Regardless of who is staff and who is not, I believe there are good reasons to not include it on either page, though.) Nescientist (talk) 16:26, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

It's rather curious, LpSamuelm: you think I'm being (more or less) tyrannical, when you're basically asking the same for yourself. Do *I* have no say against what you want? We're two people. We want exactly different things. There's no "winner" in that equation. There's no reason you're more right than I am except that you're sure you are. The idea that this makes me unreasonable or what-have-you is nonsensical.

At any rate, I think we've pretty much reached the point where I am prepared to turn a little "tyrannical" and explicitly throw in the weight of my authority as a staff member. I've tried persuading you and I would have hoped you could see what was obvious to me; but I'm at a loss for what to do when you cannot see it, short of seeking staff opinion. "Luckily", I don't have to look far. =P This is truly what I think is best for the wiki:

The data structure pages should as a rule only describe one structure. That is how those pages should be; not how you want to interpret them.

If you want to make a page that touches on more than one structure, get creative. Don't just say it's impossible. I'm certain you can make a page even if it looks a bit ridiculous. But you're not going to get anywhere so long as you keep thinking it's impossible and declining to even try.

It may be important to note that my word is not ABSOLUTE law. To be sure, I have some authority which should be respected. However, there are also many people above me who you may appeal to if you ever think I (or someone else) am terribly wrong in anything.

FWIW and perhaps obviously, I'd prefer if you just moved forward and either tried to work on a solution like I've suggested you can, or if you would just let it go and be productive in other ways. But I won't pretend there aren't other options. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:15, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Pokétch app icons

I get what you mean by your reasoning, but the thing is many Pokétch apps are already represented in the item lists of the locations they are obtained in by icons other than the Pokétch sprite, and have been so for years now. Some of them are icons of the Pokémon featured in their respective apps, so they make sense, but what I want to ask you now is that what do we do with this thing now? Do we replace all the app icons in item lists with the Pokétch icon, leave them how they are now and just try not to come up with any new ones, or something else? What do you think would be the best solution? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 05:49, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what to think of those placeholders. When I first saw what you added to Sunyshore City it just looked wrong. After you've pointed out everything else, I look at, say, Pal Park, and it doesn't seem so bad.

But. There's also a simple enough solution. Just use the app images from the Pokétch page for the "sprites". Part of me was thinking for a while that that'd be best, if only! And then I realized we totally have those and we can. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:02, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Template edit request

In SM004, the Rotom Pokédex gives a ton of new entries. Besides the obvious Pokémon entries, I chose to add the descriptions it gave about catching Pokémon and Pokémon Centers as well. The first one already had an entry way back in EP001, so it's already been taken care of. However, the entry for Pokémon Centers still has a red link. Could you edit the Pokédex template to remove the red link? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 19:03, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

It appears to have been taken care of. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:29, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Yup. Abcboy (talk • contribs) apparently took care of it before you could. BTW, as I checked out the Pokédex template out of sheer curiosity, I noticed a special entry tag (or whatever it should be called) reading "Togepi's power". I dug into Togepi's article history, and found out that that thing was used for Togepi's second AG entry at some point, but was already taken out in 2010, which was ages ago, but apparently the special note was never removed from the template. Just wondering that shouldn't something unnecessary like that be removed, even if it doesn't technically show up anywhere? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 06:05, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
PS. Is the "Purpose" part in the template the same thing as "Dexter (purpose)", in other words, repetition and thus unnecessary as well?

The template is used on a large number of pages, editing it for something that's currently going to make zero difference isn't altogether wise, so for now it's just fine. (Try to always keep your signature last as well.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:25, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Understood. Maybe next time it's really necessary to edit it, that can be done too. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:44, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Well, that time seems to be now. The newest dub episode has two double entries, and the template needs editing once again. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 20:32, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

The next time you come upon a case that causes an explicit problem in a template like that, can I ask you to consider holding off on saving it with that problem? Try asking first, so that you're not imposing a red link or something like that. Especially, there should REALLY be an option in {{Animedexbody}} that doesn't require updating such a heavily used template every time a new random odd case pops up. If we don't fix that soon, please try to keep that in mind and ask us BEFORE you use the template in an "unexpected" way again so that we can implement such a fix, which you can then freely use to use the template without problems.

Thanks. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:01, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

So basically your point is, "Tell first, wait, and then edit". Gotcha. In that case, I'm now telling you ahead that I'm planning to split Yanma's OS entry into the main entry and a section called "Yanma's attacks". Thanks. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 06:16, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. I've updated the template. Where you'd put the 2nd parameter, you can now just put None|po={{p|Yanma}}'s attack (or whatever for anything else that pops up in the future). Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:42, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you too. I've tested it out on Yanma's page, and it seems simple enough. So I was wondering, should ALL exceptions in Pokédex entries (i.e. all entries not about a Pokémon species) be replaced with this feature so that they don't need to be listed on the template itself, or should they just be left the way they are now? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 04:51, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

You don't need to go out of your way, but if you're doing anything else at the same time and you want to redo it, feel free. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:13, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Deletion

Would anyone know how to delete an account?Empoleon042806 (talk) 15:08, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we can delete your account if that's what you want, but we could probably block it indefinitely if that aligns with whatever reason you want it deleted for. If you're perhaps dissatisfied with the name you chose, it can be changed once. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:19, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Genderless vs. gender unknown

I can't find hide nor hair of the phrase "gender unknown" on any of our pages in regard to what you mentioned. If "gender unknown" is the new canonical term for it, shouldn't we change everything to use the correct term? If not, shouldn't cosmic duo use the same usage we use on every other page? Either way, we should be consistent with one term or the other, not a haphazard mishmash of whichever people feel like. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 00:19, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I kind of meant you should talk about it "publicly" on the article's talk page, not come to me individually. I think that'd be more useful.

(FYI, one thing I didn't have space to write is that I'm not rightly sure what makes genderless canon as you claimed. If you can specify the sources you were thinking of, I'd love to know it. Again, though, I don't mean here.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:40, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

(The source I was relying on was... the fact that we use the term and don't use a "fan name" template on top of its page. That's all... I'll bring it up on the genderless talk page, since that disambig seems to be the grandparent of anywhere that might be relevant.) Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 02:04, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

FP Increasing FC Costs

Really, you have to delete a important detail. It was part of a incomplete section. One of the reasons was: Needed Costs for all facility levels for introduction by visitors. Please re-add them.

Bluebird3639 (talk) 18:26, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

That information was actually there already. Nobody remembered about the incomplete template to update it, that's all. Nothing's been lost. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:39, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Ether

Hey! Sorry, I was meant to put it in the edit summary, but Ether is the Japanese name and she's called Cherie in English. At least to my understanding, disambiguations don't count if it's the Japanese name and therefore there's no clash in terms of the article names. If not, I'm happy to be corrected.--Wowy_(토크) 07:19, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

If someone's only heard the Japanese name, they could still search for that here, and then if there's no note they'd just be left confused. There may still be ways for them to find it, but that'd be relatively difficult especially if they're not super familiar with us/wikis. I imagine there's other examples of this being done but I wouldn't know where. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:26, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Move infobox and "flags"

Hey there! I believe you're still the flag officer around here? As you know, they're not exactly all perfectly accurate (as in, they're annoyingly deserted: half of our infoboxes have mirrormove incorrect, for example, but then there are none of the GenV+ "flags" I pasted on the talk of what I remember you were doing). I'm currently doing some related work there (which involves compiling lists of incorrect "flags"), and the more I do, the more I think this needs to be reformed rather radically. Before I go ahead, I want to ask: Do you have an opinion/plan on how to handle "flags" in infoboxes? Assuming there isn't something in the works already, could we (not necessarily just the two of us, but Bulbapedia as a whole) discuss (and eventually settle on) how to handle them? I believe this really needs some conceptual work before anything else (and it is about time!), that's why I'm coming to you. Nescientist (talk) 11:02, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not really grasping what you're getting at. I guess that means no, I don't have any plan or anything. So in short: lay out your ideas. Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:17, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Continued here. Note that I added some more "flags". Nescientist (talk) 14:47, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Pulse/Wave

はどう is translated as Wave, same as the japanese version of Aura, Lucario's power.--Martianmister (talk) 07:37, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Pulse is equivalent. Especially since they were translated in English as "pulse", it's fine to use that in our translations as well, rather than just take the lazy/mechanical route of obeying whatever Japanese-English dictionaries say. Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

About the underlevelled Pokemon page

I saw that the pictures have been removed and I completely understand why they have been removed. But although an odd question but is SpriteIt still active on Bulbapedia? Because his most recent contributions and activity from what I'm aware of dates back to 2016 at latest. I'm asking as I'm not sure if I will be able to contact SpriteIt regarding his page for permission to have the template modified. If you know any way to contact him it would be great if you could tell me how so I can ask about the change in template. Although preferably it would make the page look better with pictures, if not having them is what he wishes than I'm completely fine either way.Nikuriku (talk) 14:36, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

My removal of the column is entirely about what I think, not SpriteIt. That table is much too busy for a huge picture of the Pokemon's artwork. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:47, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Cheers for the advice from my talk page.

Fair enough about the table being too busy for a picture of the Pokemon's artwork.

Also would it be better to remove the "Picture" column since there are multiple methods of obtaining an underlevelled species of a Pokemon along with the fact that it never was really used to begin with?

Also if the "Picture" column is removed could I bring back the "Artwork" column? This is since the "Picture" column was never really used to begin with while the added "Artwork" column was used so in my opinion it would make sense to replace the picture column with an artwork column.Nikuriku (talk) 14:57, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

I don't really know how Picture would be used. I think if it gets to where it might be mainspacable, removing it can be considered, but until then, I'd rather give SpriteIt as much time as possible to respond to the page being edited and give any input (even if it just ends up being "Do whatever").

Like you said, the Picture column wasn't really used so even removing it doesn't really change a thing about the rest of the table. The artwork is still relatively huge and everything else relatively busy. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:06, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Hey I know this is old and most likely this will not be approved but this is why I'm asking here first:

Would I be able to make my own Underleveled Pokemon page so I would be able to add my own information and change the template? This is so I can modify the page without distorting SpriteIt's original page format. Also from that page I'm only taking the information I have added there(it's still going to be on the original page however).

If I can't make my own page then is there a way I could contact SpriteIt regarding the page? This is so I can discuss about modifying the original page and get his input before doing anything major since I'm not sure if he goes on Bulbapedia still.Nikuriku (talk) 11:49, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

The userspace exists for a reason, and we welcome users making use of it to try to develop new pages. If you want to move it in a new direction, you're more than welcome to make a page in your userspace to play with it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:29, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Cheers! I assume I can get the stuff I added from the other page and make a different template?Nikuriku (talk) 13:31, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused. But I don't think there's a lot of ways you can go wrong. Just dive in, get to it. If there's any issues, we can all figure it out. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:24, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Accuracy vs. evasion

I had believed you knew this all along, way before I realized it, but now I'm better safe than sorry: As accuracy and evasion stat stages are combined to one multiplier (Gen III onward), nothing can modify one but not the other. Or, in other words, "boosts its evasion by 25%" is another way to say "decreases accuracy of attacks targeted at it by 4/5". It's shorter and probably more intuitive/natural, but it doesn't allow us to be consistent, nor to link to one of the three consistently (and I understood that you preferred {{stat|accuracy}}). (It's also a little less precise technically/mathematically, I guess, but I think that really shouldn't matter.) More or less, I believe we (and UPC) are using "accuracy" (or {{stat|accuracy}}) as the generic term that encompasses both "accuracy"s and evasion. Nescientist (talk) 17:20, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I don't like leaving these things implied and ripe for misunderstanding, so I take it you're responding to the edits to Snow Cloak.

Second: you're talking about stat stages, but Snow Cloak doesn't affect stages, it's just a multiplier. ...Perhaps you understand this, but that's not clear to me, and it did (plainly) confuse me.

You do have a point that accuracy and evasion reduce to the same, ill-defined "stat" after stat stages are applied. (If we go by UPC for DPPt, all multipliers come only after stat stages are resolved.) I.e., at a technical level, you can't really say whether a multiplier affects accuracy or evasion.

So I think how we should handle it is that, in any cases where a multiplier nominally "affects" the user of a move, that affects their accuracy (like Hustle or Compound Eyes), while a multiplier that nominally affects a Pokemon that is the target of a move (like Snow Cloak or Gravity) affects evasion. This may be what the descriptions for those Abilities try to follow, but we may have gotten too concerned with the wrong things in some places. (If there are any categories for these sorts of multipliers, the question of what's right for them becomes interesting. Likewise, the multipliers that are split between accuracy and evasion at Statistic#Stat modifiers become equally interesting.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:13, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I can't tell what your first sentence means, but my post was motivated by you asking for proof it affects something other than accuracy (which could have been either an educational, rhethorical statement; or you being unaware that that's not really possible).

I believe I understand the difference between stat stages and the rest. What I wanted to make you aware of is: Accuracy and evasion have a single, combined table lookup (unlike say Atk and Def).

For things that do affect stat stages (Double Team etc.), we obviously need to refer to that stat whose stages are affected. For everything else, I guess we have some freedom, and I believe we're currently consistently saying "increases/decreases {{stat|accuracy}} of moves [against it] by factor/percentage" (see Tangled Feet's edit history).

Both ways of saying it have their drawbacks (as I said above). I guess it's a matter of philosphy/ideology, and of where we want to link to. I believe either way is okay. It's just that whenever UPC etc. say "multiplies accuracy of attacks against it by 4/5", we're free to reword it to "boosts evasion by 25%" if we desire, because it's really the exact same thing.

(As a side note: for Gravity and fog, we can say both "affects accuracy/users" or "affects evasion/targets" even ideologically. Official wording from Gravity's effect apparently is neutral: "Moves are more likely to hit for five turns.") Nescientist (talk) 19:06, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

(I can't tell how the stages are really related to anything in particular here... So I'm just going to plow ahead until it becomes clear that I did miss something.)

I think "where the multiplier comes from" is an eminently reasonable distinction. If it comes from the target's "condition" (like Tangled Feet), that's their "evasion" that's affected; if it comes from the attacker, it's "accuracy".

Gravity and fog are more field-wide effects, but I think we still can and should consider them logically. As far as Gravity, it should be pretty clear logically that gravity hampers a target's evasion. Fog should likewise logically affect an attacker's ability to aim (their accuracy). Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:07, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

That's a reasonable philospohy/ideology, in my opinion. (And for anything not called Gravity or fog, in-game descriptions may be unambiguous anyway.) Nescientist (talk) 18:57, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Teleport

Hey, could you maybe elaborate on why my edit apparently didn't adress my concern, or shifted the problem? (I guess you realized: my concern is that it sounds like "wild mon" takes precedence over Mean Look etc.) I've looked at my screen for minutes, but I really can't seem to find it. I'd like to "fix" it, which really... doesn't make sense when I'd be trying to just repeat my earlier edit!? Nescientist (talk) 15:34, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I might have actually missed or mistaken the "wild" part at the beginning. It was still densely worded, though. It's kind of annoying, because if this were the effect when the move was intro'd, you'd say "Teleport causes the user to flee. It can fail depending on the user's level and because of trapping moves." without having to worry about, "Wait, you can't say 'always'." Being a change like this makes it hard to do smoothly (because I would have said the original way was basically easiest/fine). But I've tried to communicate the same thing more smoothly all around now. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:59, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I really do try to find concise wording, but sometimes I apparently just lack the sensitivity, the ability to realize it is overly worded, so I appreciate any simplification you're able to provide.

In the meantime, I'll be thinking about starting a petition urging for Game Freak to not do bugs, because it's really annoying for us to represent them. Seems kinda selfish. Nescientist (talk) 17:47, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Quotes

I saw Looker having a separate quote page (Looker/Quotes) and wonders on the full requirements of having to create a new page? I was editing Lillie's quotes and the whole thing took to 97.1KB. As for Looker, because since it's from many games, so I assume the full requirements are that the quotes must be very long and the character must have appeared in several games in order for a new page to be created? Also would "Upon being defeated" and "After battle" makes more sense? Or if "After battle" could mean even if you lost? Thirdly, if I were to create my own "User:Ruixiang95/..." on the ghosts appearing in the Pokémon games, which I doubt will be mainspaced at all, will that be a breach of the website's policy? Thanks! — Ruixiang 95 11:08, 25 May 2017 (UTC), Edited: 11:20, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

There aren't specific requirements for splitting quotes, but you're right, it probably shouldn't be split if they're only in one game or generation.

I almost like "After battle", but unfortunately it probably is a problem that it sounds like it applies even if you lost the battle.

We're more than happy for users to use the userspace to try out pages that they think would improve the wiki. You can include the {{mainspace}} template at the top, and when you think you're all done, you can add the parameter "status=complete". Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:58, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Vandal

[[1]] Whom you reverted will not stop. Should we block? RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 04:35, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

ability3 field in Template:Pokémon/7

The field to list a third possible ability for Template:Pokémon/7 (and Pokémon/6) was way overdue, so I prototyped a version that accepts 3 abilities. The only difference between this version and the current one is the line that handles the ability fields.

Updated template: User:TehPerson/Pokémon/7
Test cases: User:TehPerson/Tests

Please let me know if you have any feedback. Thanks!

TehPerson (talk) 07:30, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

We're not eager to add another conditional in a template that already has plenty, especially when you want to use it on so many pages that use the template so much. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:55, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

So is there some technical-related issue with this, or this being something too low priority to consider? TehPerson (talk) 17:14, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

...It's exactly as I said. Let me put it less ambivalently. We will not be updating the template for that. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:08, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Intervention, please?

Do you mind intervening on Cress's Panpour, please? Pikablu refuses to listen to me when I point out that the trivia they added break policy, and they're persistently edit warring to reinstate the trivia. Thanks. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 01:13, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Template questions

Hey, I've got a few questions regarding templates:

Are we expected to avoid images in (high-use?) templates? Is there any (server-related) issues?
Do you know whether the software evaluates all branches of ifs, and whatever will not display due to "display:none"? Or, in other words, is there a reason to nest ifs of subsets within each other (e.g., if a<100 then ((if a<50 then x) y) rather than if a<50 then x; if a<100 then y)?
You seemed to be eager to wrap what currently is "display:none" entirely in ifs. I believe wiki syntax does not provide that functionality to wrap entire tables in ifs (expression error for me), but it may be possible with HTML. Is there a particular reason to try that (seeing how Wikipedia suggests using "display:none")? (Possibly the above point!?)

Of course, it's related to this (in particular, the damage category icons and the contest stats). Thanks in advance! Nescientist (talk) 10:46, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Abstract issues don't always work well for me... What makes you apprehensive about images?

Similar to above... I'm going to go with, I don't know, what's your issue?

Firstly, Wikipedia doesn't exactly "suggest" display:none, it has it as an option (which perhaps notably comes after wrapping content in #if). I suggest it because display:none very explicitly hides content. Take a look at Special:WhatLinksHere/Cacophony_(Ability): perhaps every species page links there because that's a default value in the Pokemon infobox, but it's hidden—it's still part of the page, it's just not visible. This is just, in general, a less than ideal problem (preferably only "valid" links would show up), but more to the point, there's cases where it can very explicitly cover something else you want to find. Suppose there's a parameter that, if set, shows a line with a link to "page", and if it's not set, that's just hidden. Based on the output, you might imagine you could check What links here for "page" to see where the parameter is set, but in truth, it wouldn't be any use to you; and it should be. I couldn't say for what, but I'm fairly sure I ran into just that problem for something in the move infobox. (FWIW as well, instead of very obliquely referring to "You seemed to be eager", being very specific about exactly where you get something like that from can only help. At least, that's true for me. Even if I did—eventually—realize what you were talking about here.)

Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:41, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

It's because very few templates seem to make use of images/icons. For example, these look so much better than the current templates IMO, and also nobody seems to have added the category icons to the move infoboxes although they existed way before the template was designed, and that made me wonder whether that's due to images (in templates) stressing servers or anything. I included them, but if use of images were a reason to reject template proposals, that'd be good to know (in general/"abstract").

Thanks, I didn't think of "What links here", I just thought of categories, and none were added in that "display:none" parts. But thanks for pointing it out—Floral Healing, for example, currently links to Appeal, and it really shouldn't. So I shall try to avoid "display:none", even if that involves some HTML workaround I guess. (Correct?)

Example is the contest data within the move infobox; if a move needs no "Contest Spectacular", it needs neither "Super Contests" nor "Contests" and so on. If the software was smart and only evaluated what it really needs to (much like most "normal" programming languages/parsers), in most cases, it would need to evaluate less parser functions if those were nested, it wouldn't need to query some color templates, etc. So, I shall try to have them nested I guess. (At least I can't see any real drawback, now that I need to wrap entire tables instead of simply using "display:none" anyway.)

I parsed your intention from here. Nescientist (talk) 15:11, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't know if there's no case where images would be a problem, but I don't know how. In this particular case, if those icons would be any sort of problem, they'd be very simple to remove, so that certainly wouldn't be grounds to reject everything.

You don't need to use HTML—and shouldn't, really. We're a wiki. We can expect people to know/learn wikicode. HTML can only complicate things. Just stick with wikicode.

The only generic argument I could make about nesting would be readability (counting brackets is annoying). There's probably documentation that could tell you. I rarely have the stomach to really digest things as dense as that tends to be, though.

Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:28, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

As I said, I believe the wiki syntax doesn't allow for wrapping entire tables in ifs (specifically, I'm having problems with the opening and closing {| and |}), so I would need to use HTML (<table>) as a workaround. I'll try to see if I'm mistaken and/or can make it work somehow. I know using HTML it's bad.

Exactly, yes. But I think it's minor, especially when I'll try to intend properly. (And I think expansion depth can be a problem, but only if we get like a dozen more contests.)

Thanks. Nescientist (talk) 15:43, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Just wanted to clarify that the wiki syntax can be used to hide entire tables. I was able to make it work without using HTML. Nescientist (talk) 17:39, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Z-Move Effect

Ok then, let's discuss: Why do you think the E should be lowercase? Nescientist (talk) 16:03, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

...I was the last one to say anything on Z-Move. And what I said seems basically clear enough to me. Either you have a response that will attempt to discount something I've said (and/or you'd like clarification on something), or we can only disagree. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:15, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't think you discounted anything I've said, and yet you reverted. Why did you revert? (I don't think any of your statements is factually wrong, but I don't see how that makes you revert my edit.) Nescientist (talk) 16:20, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

There's no solid reason to think that phrase should be in title case. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:40, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

But wouldn't that be the most logical assumption for a key term? And also, wouldn't title case require one or two additional assumptions, namely that the beginning of the "line" (what you see in the infoscreen; I know it's not literally a sentence) is in title case, and that the capitalization changes between title case and sentence case within that same line?

Or in other words: Is there solid reason to think the phrase should not be in title case? (Or even rather be not in title case?) Nescientist (talk) 16:54, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm really not sure what you think a "key term" is/why Z-Power Effect is such. "Z-Power effect" seems simply descriptive, not particularly "special" or anything (for any solid reason). Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh, you didn't challenge that until now!? That is because I noticed that in German, it is one word "Z-Kraft-Bonus", which can hardly be purely descriptive, and is different from the website's actual description (which is something with "Effekte"). Also, as it's in front of a colon, it's quite explicitly summarizing/shortening what it "describes"; it's designed to be to the point. Nescientist (talk) 17:43, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

If you want me to have challenged it being a 'key term', I'm don't know how I should have done that when, again, I still don't know what you think that is and when this is furthermore the first time you've mentioned it.

I absolutely don't know enough about German to say much about that term, but I do know that all German nouns are capitalized. By that, I'd be very hesitant to infer too much from the German. As for it being in front of a colon, you're making a big assumption by inferring anything from the capitalization there; being explicitly set off, there's no telling how purposeful that capitalization is. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:28, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

(resetting indent) Haha, of course I don't want you to challenge something I would eventually say. But what I mean when I say "it's a term" is that, well, it is an official term, official terminology, something that should be bolded and translated on the page; you didn't un-bold or doubt it was more than a pure descriptive sequence of words. (And with that German, I didn't mean to say anything about capitalization. It was an argument why it is a term, and not merely a pure descriptor.)

I know that it's technically an assumption to say "Z-Move Effect" is correctly capitalized this way. But in my opinion, it's actually way more of an assumption to say it should be "Z-Move effect" (because I guess terms are typically capitalized, because "Z-Move effect" requires the two additional assumptions I mentioned before, and because "Z-Move effect" just doesn't seem to be used anywhere official). If you really insist and disagree that it's a term, I guess we can agree that we disagree, and you would obviously have the right to make use of your Junior Adminship to overrule me if you wish—but then you should also de-bold and remove it from "In other languages". (But I honestly think I made rather strong arguments.)

But saying both "it's a term" and having it lowercase seems almost contradictory to me; I really hope that we will be able to adjust the article accordingly. Nescientist (talk) 20:57, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't have any particular opinion either way on this, but let me just point out that there are plenty of "terms" that we translate and use bold but that are officially lowercase. There's a whole list of them at User:SnorlaxMonster/Pokémon Syntax#Capitalization. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 21:05, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, and/but I think we have them that way exactly because they are not capitalized in sentence case (despite being terms). But either this one is, or (we're assuming) it's in title case and capitalized (only) because of that. Nescientist (talk) 21:20, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

The plain fact is, there is no context where you can guarantee that "your" capitalization is intentional. Uppercase is plainly a special thing; it is not something you assume by default. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Ah really? Okay, I thought one would assume that by default (for a term, or a Pokémon term). In that case, even though I would still prefer to have it capitalized based on my arguments, I guess it's not as crystal clear as I initially thought. I don't care too much then. Nescientist (talk) 21:40, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Talk

So like four people get involved and I'm the only one in trouble? Really fair treatment here. So glad we have admins to make this place so much more inviting and remove all the information.--Pikablu (talk) 14:58, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Frankly, you were the one most obviously egregious when I saw it. So I did your message first. (After the page itself.) Beyond that, I have various concerns that are not all limited to this site. Try to avoid jumping to conclusions. Or at very least, if your "unfair treatment" is really your concern, be earnest about that (for example, pointing out politely and reasonably the people you think also warrant some sort of messsge); if all you're gonna do is drawl sarcasm at me, you're not putting yourself in any good light. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:04, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Thoughts

I know you might not care too much about this, but I wanted to ask about the Mystery Dungeon item pages since we've discussed it (a little) before. I've made a page for throwing items where I've split the page into each game. The advantage is that the template doesn't become too complex and ugly, and you can write information specific to each game (e.g. IQ skills). Another advantage is that the item "stick" changed its name to "wooden spike" (both English and japanese) (I am assuming they have the same effect with just a different name). So sorting it out by generation would mean that the 'same' item isn't duplicated twice. The disadvantage is that you can't compare the changes that have been made over the different games, and also when someone searches "Geo pebble", I think the search would only land on the page and not on the exact item. I tried to make a page for throwing item because it's relatively sparse, but I don't want spend time making any changes to big pages such as the Wonder Orb page before approval. What are your thoughts? --Wowy_(토크) 08:11, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't been able to figure out what to say sooner...

Can you give any examples of where you think an item gets complex besides regarding buy/sell prices? (I don't really know what you mean when you mention IQ skills above either, and I don't think I see anything about that on your user page.) For the most part, it seems to me like, since the template is meant to handle multiple games, it seems best to use it like that (aside from how messy the prices get). Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:01, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

A slow response is better than no response! And I also don't know what the best way is, and it's fine if we end up leaving it as it is. But if you take Wonder Orb as an example of a list getting complex, some orbs are available in all the games (e.g. Slumber Orb), some are available only in a RBTDS (e.g. Silence Orb), and some only in GTI (e.g. Notice Orb, well I haven't found it yet in SMD and there are no reports of it online) etc. Like the throwing item, some items also changed names (e.g. Foe-Evolution Orb --> Enemy Evolve Orb). So for anyone playing just one of the games, the list gets confusing as to which one is relevant to your game or not, until you open each table. I guess you could argue that the page is just a list of all the orbs in all the games, but maybe the page should strive to do more than that (maybe?).

When I mentioned the IQ skills, what I meant was when you open the "In Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team" tab, then you can see a mention of IQ skills since that info is relevant to that game, while when you open the "In Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity" tab, you can see a mention of Team Skills since that info is relevant to that game. So you can put information relevant to that game under each tab rather than having it all at the top of the page.

Whatever happens, thanks for you thoughts! I'll keep them in mind. --Wowy_(토크) 23:54, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

I've been advised that a compromise could be grouping games. Like sections for "Only in [RB]", "In [RB and TDS]", "In all games", etc as required. That way you'd still have only one template for each item.

I don't know what to say about ones like Foe-Evolution Orb --> Enemy Evolve Orb except that it's arguably working alright as it is now on Wonder Orb, with just separate templates for each name. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:52, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Ok, that sounds good in theory, but it ends up with too many arbitrary sections: "Only in [RB]", "[In RB and TDS]", "[In RB, TDS and GTI]", "[Only in TDS]", "[Only in GTI]", "[Only in SMD]", "[In all games]", and would separate similar items that should be grouped together (e.g. Stick, Silver Spike and Iron Thorn are obviously counterparts with different strength, but Silver Spike would come under "All games", while Stick and Iron Thorn would be classed as "In RB, TDS and GTI"). If that's the case, I'm more than happy to keep the MD item pages as it is now rather than make that change (it also doesn't solve the buy/sell price issue).

On another note, should Foe-Evolution Orb and Enemy Evolve Orb be listed together on the same template since the Japanese names are the same, while Stick & Wooden Spike, Iron Thorn & Iron Spike be listed separately since they have different Japanese names and so are distinct items?

And thank you, I appreciate your responses! :) --Wowy_(토크) 01:28, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Are those arc/straight categories a strong in-game distinction, beyond just how they behave when they're used? If not (and possibly even if they are), then you could forego those sections. There's only three arcing items, I think it would be fine then to just talk about the different behaviors and highlight the three arcing items at the top of the page or something.

Strictly speaking... Yeah, the Foe/Enemy Evolution Orb should be in a single template, basically like Paralyze Heal. On the other hand...that unfortunately brings about a similar sort of problem as you mentioned before, since the closed template doesn't display the note about the previous name. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:04, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay, how does the page look now? --Wowy_(토크) 04:09, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Did you misorder the Rare Fossil and Gold Thorn in the TDS section? Seems good to me otherwise. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:16, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Magikarp

I had believed it was rude of you to just undo the entire edit when I thought you seemed to be adamant to keep that section clean, and wanted me to possibly move it elsewhere. However, if your problem was not where it was added, but that it was added at all, I believe it's just as rude. By now, it should be clear that I (currently) disagree. Either way, please feel free to outline your rationale.

(As an aside, I believe it's quite striking you expect me to possibly start the discussion by undoing an edit, again. Or is this you exerting Junior Admin powers?) Nescientist (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to be honest... The argument you're attempting to make here simply makes no sense to me. You're thinking something that's just totally different than what I'm thinking.

The situation is very simple. I saw you added something to Magikarp a earlier that didn't belong. You reverted my reversion and called my reversion rude. That makes no sense, and your simple reversion completely ignored the problem I pointed out. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:08, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Honesty is always good. I'm in.

In my opinion, a simple undoing of an edit (that is within the MoS) is almost always some kind of rude if that undoing is based on personal opinion only. Even moreso when the edit is not one word, but an edit the editor obviously spent time and thought to it. (I thought about it for several days, and it took more than half an hour to finally implement my edit.)

...And it's more rude (and very striking) when the editor/edit attempted to solve an issue. Your reversion didn't address the problem at all. It just reinstalled it.

What problem did you want to address in your edit comment? I understood that you wanted to make me (or everyone) aware of the fact that this should be about the species the article is about, not describe a game. I am aware of that, it's just that the game is about that species. The game is literally called the species—I can't do anything about that. What I did was focus on Magikarp appearing there (and I pointed that out in my reversion).

(Just in case: The patterns are the most important part of it, in my opinion. I insist they need to be somewhere on the page.) Nescientist (talk) 18:37, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I have to say... (With, for what it's worth, no offense intended.) It doesn't matter how much time you spend on an edit, if someone undoes that for what they think is a good reason, your investment/disappointment in no way justifies you automatically labeling it rude. Just because you put effort into something doesn't give it some magical protection.

You say I didn't resolve the problem you were concerned about. Fun fact: I don't really know Magikarp Jump. My intent was that someone who does should address that concern in a better way than your edit did. (This all comes around to: you're invested in this thing and feeling hurt about it. I won't say you can't be, but don't lay it all on other people. They don't have to have the same investment as you.)

You state the problem exactly, but declined to try to address it at all. There's a whole article for details of the game. Pumpkinking's edit addresses Magikarp's appearance about as deeply as (as near as I can tell) it needs to be.

And there's already an explicit place for sprites. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:59, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I am in absolutely no way feeling hurt or something about my edit being removed. Simply removing that much value created focused at solving a problem (one we even agree on), is bad—regardless of who created that value. (And I didn't say that value gave it protection, or used it as an argument to "automatically" call it rude.) In short: Removing the entire thing entirely is certainly worse than what I did.

I know Magikarp Jump a bit. And/but I don't quite understand what makes you think my edit was bad. If you (have read my explanation above and) specified, I could try to address your concern. (Again, I focused on Magikarp in the game, not the game itself.)

Are you suggesting to append it to the core games' sprites? I initially wanted to have the patterns near the prose explaining them, but I'm okay with your suggestion as well. Nescientist (talk) 19:20, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Call it what you want then, there is still no justification for calling a good faith edit "rude". Anything not to your liking is not "rude".

I'm not sure why you're offering to address my concern when I've already said that Pumpkinking's edit is good. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:32, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay then, I misread that part. I'm fine with that as well, if we add the patterns (in prose and images). Would you please edit them in (or answer where I should put them)? Nescientist (talk) 19:50, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I already said, if they belong anywhere, there's already a sprites section. Tiddlywinks (talk) 20:19, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I hope you already know this, but after reading this whole section again, I wish to very explicitly state/reconfirm that no offense was intended on my part either. I was not trying to attack you personally, and I hope you didn't draw that conclusion at any point. (I obviously suck at reading your mind sometimes.) Nescientist (talk) 20:40, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Marowak

Based on your response to PlayerKing95's page what is your stance on the moves used in SM034?--Rahl (talk) 13:43, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't really follow the anime. I'll pass the question along. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:52, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Shuckle

Thanks for dealing with the vandalism from Joel, hate things I like that.--BigDocFan (talk) 21:18, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Meant to be I hate things like that.--BigDocFan (talk) 21:18, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

RE: Encounter Edits

As I've been playing through the series gen by gen recently, I've noticed that the more recent gens are full of misinformation on encounters. Diamond/Pearl had a few apparent hiccups, but I'm running into them all over the place in Black/White. Serebii's database is even worse, listing pokemon in completely incorrect routes and areas. It's clear that the encounter rates thus far have all gone on people's experiences and nothing else. I'm just adding mine to the pool--and mind you, I'm changing nothing unless it's been hours upon hours and I'm absolutely, 100% sure.

If you want to dig up ROM data, by all means, feel free. It has not been done with this encounter tables. I don't have the time or interest in doing it, either--again, I'm just adding my contribution to improve the tables. Even if it won't make them 100% perfect, it will be a step closer to perfect accuracy. If you want to make the tables LESS accurate by reverting my changes, I can't stop you; I went out of my way to improve the data, but if that generous act is not appreciated, I'm fine not bothering. - Xelrog T. Apocalypse (talk) 18:14, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Is corocoro also a forbidden source?

[2]

Because if it was, my edit was valid. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Can you read Japanese? If not, you're relying on Serebii's interpretation of what that scan says. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:48, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

No, I can't. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

M09

Hello I would like to ask for a staff member's opinion on this. Frozen Fennec reverted me when I changed "most likely" to "may be" and said that "most likely" is fine, I think having "most" and "likely" makes those points too certain and I don't see what harm there would be in changing "most likely" to "may be". Please could you offer some input thanksGreat Bear (talk) 14:39, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

We try to avoid personal opinions, which is what "most likely" is. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:18, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, I saw that you changed it.Great Bear (talk) 19:55, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

New editor

[[3]] This new editor is spamming some strange link. Two of his eduts are hidden. Is this vandalism? And by the way, on the talkpage for FireRed and LeafGreen I posted a question but I am unsure if it belongs there. - unsigned comment from RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk • contribs)

The user was dealt with.

It seems okay.

Also, please use the "+" button at the top of the page, next to "edit this page", to create a new section on a talk page, don't just put it at the end of someone else's section. Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:51, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Re:Anime moves

I'm sorry if I seemed arrogant or whatever by adding that Thunder Wave use. However, I would like to assure you that I've learned my lesson: I don't add too ambiguous moves without them being confirmed anymore. However, this case wasn't ambiguous at all in my mind: the animation used for the move was identical to the one used in the XY series, you can check it out yourself if you want. A couple other users have also already left agreeing opinions to T-Wave's talk page. Do you give me the permission to restore my edit? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 04:30, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Type: Null at level 5.

(Without double-checking anything but our breeding page) Eggs hatch at level 1

Doesn't that prove my point? Other than Cosmog (who's obtained at level 5), everything that evolves can be bred and hatched, which makes Type: Null the only unevolved Pokemon unobtainable at level 5. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 16:34, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

So you mean by leveling up... That's not what obtainable should mean. And even if you find the right word, having to level up Pokemon makes it unnotable. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:19, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

There is clearly a misunderstanding here. What exactly do you think I'm trying to say? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 18:16, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

That's exactly what I said from the start... If Sandygast can be "obtained at level 5", then either it can be encountered in the wild and caught at level 5, or it can hatch at level 5. Neither is true. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't think the point is notable either, but perhaps what Unowninator intended was more like "the player can/cannot legitimately possess it at level 5". Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 19:33, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

^ Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Thanks for explaining Pumpkinking. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 23:03, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

In that case, my response here was understanding it just fine. You can only have Sandygast at level 5 after leveling it up, which makes it unnotable. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:26, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

What the hell does that have to do with anything? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 04:02, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

"You cannot legitimately possess it at level 5" is wildly aribtrary. If you can possess everything else at level 5 by leveling up but you can't possess Null lower than level 40, then why don't we just level up further and make it level 39, or everything from 1 to 39?

And why do we stop before Null's obtainable level? If we just go farther, then everything can be possessed at level 40-100. Yay?

Your line (and method) is arbitrary, formed to exclude Type: Null for no actually-good reason, it probably just "seems" right. It's not notable. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:17, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

My reason was little cup, but since it doesn't really exist, why not bring up the level 40 thing? If that isn't notable, then why are these facts?

Of all the Pokémon that evolve by leveling up, Hydreigon evolves from its pre-evolution later than any other Pokémon, at level 64.
Out of all Pokémon that evolve by a set level, Larvesta evolves later than any other unevolved Pokémon, at level 59.

¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 02:53, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't know what "the level 40 thing" is supposed to be. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:21, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

(resetting indent) Basically of all unevolved Pokemon, it is obtained at the highest level. Everything else can be lower than 39, but Type: Null can only be at level 40 minimum because it can't breed. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 15:34, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Then just phrase it like that instead of going through a bunch of hoops to overcomplicate it. Something like Of all unevolved Pokémon, Type: Null has the highest minimum level at which it can be legitimately possessed: level 40 seems, in my mind, to be more notable than dancing around the topic by bringing up Cosmog and level 5. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 15:41, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Hang on, Unowninator, just because I said I personally think it's more notable than what you had before, doesn't mean Tiddlywinks will decide it's notable enough to keep. It's probably best to wait to add it until they approve/disapprove it. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:32, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

*extreme facepalm* Why does nobody understand me? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 06:18, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Video

I do not want to say it but if you pause at 0:25 of the video, it looks sha__. RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 04:28, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

I still don't understand. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:34, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

You will see a white menu in the bottom right corner. You know why now? RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 04:39, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

I see it. Please don't assume I can read your mind and keep asking me to guess. If you can't explain yourself, I won't understand. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:42, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

All right. I'll just ask if a white menu is possible on a gameboy. RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 04:46, 1 September 2017 (UTC) And if not, where can one be found on a gameboy game. RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 04:48, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

I think they're trying to censor the word "shady" for some reason, and are pointing out that the video is taken of an emulated game (you can see a Windows right-click menu briefly at the point they mentioned). Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:49, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Direct linking

Re: your discussion with Nescientist and the staff ruling that came out of it: Can you please have a word with FinnishPokeFan95? As you can see in their contributions history, they are edit warring on Berry pages to remove the redirect even though (as far as I understand it?) the outcome of that conversation was that those links should be redirects. Thanks. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:26, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

My understanding is that there were two users seriously discussing, not that there was me and a staff member and a staff ruling. (However, there's reasons and arguments, and there's a policy to avoid edit warring, and a will to avoid useless edits.) Nescientist (talk) 18:15, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

When Tiddlywinks said they had been "advised" on the matter, I assumed it was from higher-up staff members, but yeah, perhaps I misinterpreted that. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 18:30, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Insignificant minor edits

(I have asked on SnorlaxMonster's talk page but gotten no replies, so...) I wonder if these minor edits are necessary: link 1, link 2, link 3. They don't make any difference when you view them on the page. Thanks. — Ruixiang 95 22:36, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I missed this before.

"Necessary"? No. Personally, they are something I'd probably do myself if I was thinking about it while already doing something on the page.

Your implication is that it should be stopped. If it was absolutely all someone was focused on, I personally would ask them to find more substantial edits to make (and have in some cases in the past). While at this particular moment it seems like GrammarFreak01 has done relatively a lot of that sort of edit in the past day, that doesn't seem to consistently be the case so strongly previously. It's still not ideal, but... For what it's worth, I can tell you that, as of yet, it doesn't seem to be weighing too heavily on anyone's mind on staff. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:56, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

I see. I know it's supposed to do that while you are editing something else on the page, and not just specifically editing this part only. I remembered this sort of insignificant edits will clogged up the Recent Changes or something else. Since there's no worries about that, I guess I don't mind.

Might as well ask this now also. Are the Rotom Adventures quotes needed to be added to the Rotom Pokédex page? (User:Ruixiang95/Rotom Pokédex/Quotes) — Ruixiang 95 04:15, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Just to be sure I'm not missing something, you're talking about the Rotom from the Pokemon Adventures manga?

As far as I know, we don't do any quotes for anything but games. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:29, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Nope, Video games. The message they show on the bottom screen as you travel in Alola. — Ruixiang 95 04:39, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Oh, just everything else beyond the dex stuff. I specifically refrained from that (or even adding an incomplete template) previously myself because I don't think it's necessary. Rotom's dialogue is a little bit like a walkthrough, I don't think it's worth much or adds much. And it's something for practically everywhere, it'd be pretty huge. And then figuring out for each of those exactly when it occurs would be a huge pain too. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:46, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Archive sandbox

Will you please archive the sandbox? The maximum number of sections should be 60. SaturnMario, his talk and his contributions 22:37, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

What do you mean the max should be 60? Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:47, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

The ones including sub-sections. SaturnMario, his talk and his contributions 23:37, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

That's not what I asked. I asked why you say it should be the max. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:40, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

I actually agree. There's so much text & such on the sandbox that it causes my browser to freeze, so I can't even use it. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 21:03, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

That Rhydon thing.

How the hell is it excluding anything? The Psychic type thing excludes all other types, so why is that fine but not this? (I suppose I could just say highest attack of everything compatible with Eviolite, but I think the other way's better...) ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

How is it excluding anything, you ask? The phrase "non-fully evolved" quite explicitly excludes fully evolved Pokemon. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:13, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

And Psychic types doesn't exclude all other types? I still think it's good trivia. Can we at least reword it? (Unfortunately, my best idea is using Eviolite compatibility) ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 21:25, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Where do we draw the line? We've easily had "all but Legendaries and Mythicals", "all except Mega Evolutions", (all but Legendaries, Mythicals, and Megas; only Megas; only Legendaries and Mythicals...) "all starters", your "Eviolite users"...and that's just off the top of my head, there's probably several other "interesting" sets that have been on pages and plenty more beyond that if we just decided that anyone who wanted to could make up a set.

Let's also consider each of those sets I mentioned above: would it be okay to start talking about only the Fairy-types, Normal-types, etc among each of those groups?

What I'm getting at is that it's a lot of stuff, and all that just balloons. More than anything, it's hard enough keeping track of two broad categories (overall and by type)... (I'm pretty sure that when people started updating the best/worst trivia to account for Gen VII, they didn't pay any attention to the Pokemon that used to be "highest" or "lowest" and had now lost that status, thereby leaving old/incorrect trivia on a number of pages.) We don't need to worry about updating stats for a dozen different categories.

Even if you want to say, "Well, I think these four or five or so categories are okay and we won't allow anything else", it can be very hard to remember whether what someone added is actually in one of those categories, without referring to somewhere where it would have been stated out. Beyond that, it's not like there's a simple way to "agree" on which X categories we should have, either.

The short version is: we don't need a bunch of trouble for allowing all sorts of categories. We should keep it simple, and the most basic categories are just overall and by type. Easy to remember, easy to deal with... It's plenty. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:45, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Topps

Hi not trying to start an edit war but nowhere on the page does it describe all of the different printings. Samcarano (talk) 19:29, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

What's not described? The logo colors are described. The finish is described.

I was also just about ready to ask on your talk page: To me, it seems like the "2nd edition" set with a smooth finish that you described could easily fit the same case as what you called the "rogue" S1 set. Is there particular reason you think otherwise? Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:32, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Everything is stated now but the topps logos and the 5th foil print were not stated initially. yes it could be called rogue as it was similarly not released in the U.S. but was produced here(at least as far as I can tell). So that terminology applies here as well. There are also packs of 5 and 8 for both logo colors. I also put in which set the promo was part of. Samcarano (talk) 19:51, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Hey I noticed some file names for the johto series 1 sticker set that were already uploaded are incorrect. 40 and 44 are swapped in the file name. I am unaware of how to fix this.Samcarano (talk) 01:11, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

That's interesting. I couldn't say why that happened or why I never noticed (and someone else had to fix it later on apparently)...

Anyway, on the Archives, you can put the Archives' {{move}} template on the page so the staff there will know and be able to move it.

As a note also, if you notice any images that are relatively low quality, like Topps Johto 1 S45.png, we'd be very happy if you are also able/willing to upload higher quality scans of those. Thanks! Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:51, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I am willing to upload any scans of my cards. Do you have any pointers on how to spot lower quality scans? I know file size can usually be an indication but I also know that png images can be compressed with little loss.Samcarano (talk) 02:19, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

I don't think images that are that colorful can be compressed incredibly much, at least not anywhere near the size of images with such lower resolution. It might be a bit tedious, but that means you could just check Category:Collectible cards, find where the Topps cards start, and just check for small sizes.

You can also just check the user contributions of any person who you noticed has uploaded at least one LQ image. (It's a bit weird so you may not have noticed, but if you follow the link for S45/Steelix above and click "view on a shared repository" at the top of the page, it'll take you to the proper page on the Archives. On the Archives, you can see the user who uploaded it, LHakaLH in this case, and "contribs" will show their uploads and stuff.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:31, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

some questions

hi. i'm not sure if you are the correct person to ask, but may i know how often does the admins reviews the articles in Category:Candidates_for_moving, and what is the procedure for moving of pages for admins? I suggested the renaming of List of Pokémon by New Unova Pokédex number to List of Pokémon by Unova Pokédex number (Black 2 and White 2) around 1.5 years ago. However, it had not been moved despite the hoenn and alola dex being moved to the format of "List of Pokémon by XXX Pokédex number (game)]]". I was told that admins will decide on the move after discussions, but most of the articles in Category:Candidates_for_moving have no discussion at all, or the discussion only consist of the person who suggested it. Those that do have replies won't even last 5 people commenting on it. And the number of talk pages with the admins involved in the discussion is very minimum. It seems that most of the pages in that category are just sitting there for months with no signs of any work to move or remove them from the page. May i have some enlightenment about the procedure, such as if the admins actually have their own private discussions about those pages, just that we won't know about it? i previously bring this up on this talk page too. thank you for reading. If this is not the correct platform, please let me know the proper channel to enquire about it. Thank you again. -Pokeant (talk) 07:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

To be honest, I believe discussion happens in an EB-exclusive venue, so I don't really know much to tell you myself about what kind of impetus there is or how it plays out or what.

If you're worried about a particular page, it may be best to contact someone directly. That "a particular page" part may be important; I would suggest some moderation, not getting excited and asking for everything to be resolved at once. =P Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:01, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. the particular page is "List of Pokémon by New Unova Pokédex number". I feel that with the hoenn dex and alola dex being moved, i do not see the reason for the unova dex to not be moved to be consistent with the hoenn/alola dex page. -Pokeant (talk) 03:00, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

My confusion in regards to Grassy Terrain...

If Grassy Terrain is in effect, unless the target is in the semi-invulnerable turn of a move such as Dig or Dive, the power of Bulldoze, Earthquake, and Magnitude is halved (even if the user or the target is not grounded).

So basically, if I use Earthquake on something that used Dig, does it do a total of x1 damage (×1/2 from Grassy Terrain, ×2 from using Dig), or is Grassy Terrain's effect ignored when the Pokémon uses Dig, thus ×2? Does my question make sense?¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 22:38, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

The "×1/2 from Grassy Terrain" that you mention, you're supposing that comes from the sentence you've posted at the start? If so, that very sentence says that that 1/2 only is in effect IF the target is NOT using a move such as Dig. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:47, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so the 1/2 is ignored and the total is ×2. I was just checking. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 22:54, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Necrozma DM DW

In Megalo Tower we have an box like this with Ultra Necrozma, and i think this is more convencional since Necrozma is not catchable and need to be defeated during this battles. Pika fanatic (talk) January 27, 00:03 (UTC)

I fixed it. We do full battle templates for Trainers. Totem Pokemon get that treatment in Gen VII because the trials take the place of Gyms, but that's not what Necrozma is. If it's just part of the storyline, it doesn't warrant that. Otherwise it'd entail a lot more changes beyond just Necrozma. (This may be worth discussing—but my page isn't really the place for that). Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:47, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

BW142

Could you please explain your edit to BW142? A Trainer can only carry six Pokémon at a time and Ash left more than six (Unfezant, Oshawott, Pignite, Snivy, Scraggy, Leavanny, Palpitoad, Boldore, Krookodile, and Charizard) at Oak's Laboratory. The "On hand" section on anime character pages always features up to six Pokémon. We use "In rotation" when Trainers are shown using more than six Pokémon. For reference, see the pages of May, Ursula, Nando, Virgil... --Mi ku ri 23:54, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree that's a better phrasing, so I've revised the page in hopes of it being able to stand as a compromise. I hadn't thought of the possibility of using "in rotation"; thanks for the suggestion. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 23:58, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Mikuri. I tried to check what was going on a bit but in the mix I seem to have missed/forgotten the part where you said Ash left more than six Pokemon with Oak. I thought your issue was that he had fewer than six Pokemon "on hand".

That said, looking farther back this time, I really don't see any problem at all with Pumpkinking's original edit. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:08, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Rotom Power Bag Pocket

Do you know anyone who could add the Rotom Power as a pocket for the bag? On my userpage are samples of the item pages for Rotom Powers, but default to the Z-crystals pocket since Rotom powers aren't part of the template yet. Lanthanum (talk) 03:16, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I received sprites for the pockets, so I can make it work soon. Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:42, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Pokemon species trivia

Can trivia about a Pokemon species ever be notable if it's not unique? sumwun (talk) 02:11, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

As a rule, it is not. Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:42, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

For example, does that mean the trivia about Dugtrio being immune to telekinesis needs to be deleted because mega Gengar is also immune to it? sumwun (talk) 18:21, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Done. Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:15, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Value of truth

I don't want to derail other discussions, so I'm taking this here. I'm alarmed by the attitude you've seemed to have on talk pages such as Talk:Team Skull Grunt (Trainer class) and Talk:Pokémon Communication Center in which you apparently don't think it's necessary to correct something false if it's something you consider minor. Phrases like "who really cares" and "what exactly is hurt" seem, in my mind, to be an effort to discourage people from trying to present the most truthful possible information. In my mind, these are plain-as-day cases of inarguably false information (niche cases, granted, but inarguably false nonetheless), and you seem actively interested in discouraging the correction of them.

For that reason, I wanted to directly ask: am I misinterpreting you, or do you really not think truth is an important value for Bulbapedia? If the latter, is that also the official staff position? If so, I'm not sure I can continue to feel comfortable participating in an encyclopedia if it isn't trying to be true. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:21, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

You're taking it much too dramatically.

I'm just going to address the specific cases directly.

I do not believe that there's really any point to trying to say on any page about grunts that they technically have a "Trainer class" that is their team name. (Note that I am not saying we should have "Team Skull Grunt (Trainer class)". I am not, either, saying we shouldn't, though. I'm personally leaving it for further comment, because, in short, things are alright as they are, I'm fine just waiting and focusing my own attention on other things.) The only place I think it would be worth communicating that there is no "Team Skull Grunt" Trainer class would be if we had a technical page that touched on the Trainer data in the ROM or something. The argument I made that you express concern about above was against your suggestion to merge grunts' info into team TC pages—that's all.

I do not consider an implication that the GS Ball is only available in Crystal's VC version a falsehood at all. You cannot obtain the GS Ball solely by playing Crystal's cartridge versions. There is no falsehood communicated. That said, I also explicitly did not say that only listing the VC item was the only option. I suppose I must admit, I tried to phrase my whole comment about the GS Ball relatively delicately; so let me attempt to make clear here that what I meant was: I do not think it is right for us to mention (or worry about) the cartridge GS Ball in the template, and I disfavor some extra note nearby (but it is still an option). To put it another way, the intended point was, noting the cartridge version in the template is more trouble than it's worth, but there are still solutions that we could add to the original revision before your original attempt to "fix" it. (Let's say that at least half as strongly as you are against only mentioning VC—which, again, is not the only option I entertain—I'm that strongly against any significant change to "Received from an attendant while attempting to exit after entering the Hall of Fame (Virtual Console only)" as your recent edit has done; it only hurts what is already perfectly useful.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:59, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

FYI, I now do not think that there is any real reason to add any note about the cartridge event. Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:59, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

I brought it to the guy's talk page to avoid an edit war, but it's been over a week.

I'm talking about this edit, specifically the release date. I even added the hidden text, but User:Akurochan flat out ignores it without even saying why. I asked him on his talk page, but he hasn't even been on the site in over a week. What else am I allowed to do? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Two questions.

1) What's your time zone? And do you remember when exactly you downloaded it?

2) I don't know Pokken, so just to be sure, when you said you downloaded it, I suppose that means you could immediately play it (and not that it ws locked for a while still)? Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:33, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

My time-zone is EST, so it's 1:25 PM when I posted this. IIRC I was able to play it at 8:30 - 9:30 PM. It was playable immediately after the download finished. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 18:25, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Japan's time is 14 hours ahead of you. It was reasonably released on the "correct" day when you downloaded it. It's fine. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:30, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

In other words, I have to leave it alone. Is that correct? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 18:56, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

It should not be changed. Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:04, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Very well, I understand now. Thanks for doing what Akurochan didn't do himself. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 19:17, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Own Tempo Rockruff

I made a correct edit to the evolution section of Own Tempo Rockruff. Why was it reverted? IFlames (talk) 03:10, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Note that it doesn't really make sense that you get Dusk Form at 5 AM (which is roughly dawn). You're forgetting that in-game time is not the same as the real-world time (or more accurately, the 3DS clock, which also doesn't have to have any relation to real-world time). Only the in-game time matters. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:21, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

I am currently playing UM and I can confirm the evolution takes place between 5 AM and 5:59 AM. I know it doesn't make sense but thats how it is. US is 5 PM to 5:59 PM. I strongly suggest you revert your re-edit, or if you dont believe me, try it out yourself. IFlames (talk) 03:36, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Bear with me a second here... How do you know it's the 5 AM hour? Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:39, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Well first I saw bulbapedia saying 5PM hour. So i tried leveling up Rockruff then. But it didnt evolve. So I found a few posts on the internet saying it was the 5AM hour for UM. So then I tried it around 5:20 AM (3DS time), and it worked. Why on earth would I even lie about this or make the edit if I wasn;t sure? IFlames (talk) 03:42, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm not at all saying you're lying. I'm saying you're missing something.

The 3DS's time is NOT the time in-game.

Try this. Check the time on your 3DS. Then go to a Pokemon Center in UM and talk to the cafe owner. (He doesn't tell you the same time.)

That is to say, even though your 3DS says 5 AM, it's still 5 PM in the game when you're evolving Rockruff. The page is correct. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:52, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

"Trade" in Item Locations

For games where you can only obtain items through Trade, do we put down it as Trade or Trade? FinnishPokéFan92 has been changing the latter back to the former, so I'm not sure which to go with now. Lanthanum (talk) 01:47, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

I personally believe that the italicized one is better because it makes it readily distinguishable from other rows (where it's actually directly obtainable in-game). Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:51, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. I'll change them back when I find them again. Thanks. Lanthanum (talk) 01:55, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Oh yeah in the same vein, under acquisition in item pages, when an item can be found in an area more than once (but still finite), do leave just the location or do we include the number of times it can be found? (6 Thunderstones for example can be found in Ultra Plant). Lanthanum (talk) 02:53, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

I guess it's simple enough, I don't think a count like that is a problem. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:05, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

If I may intrude, that would require a lot of "backtracking" so to say, as many already existing item pages lack the amount of it obtainable in every finite way, especially when talking about earlier generations. This is why I personally would oppose the idea, even if only for the sheer size of that job, but if someone is ready to do all that checking for every single existing item page, knock yourselves out. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:21, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

I think if it's missing, no big deal. It can be fixed sooner or later. And if it's often "later", even "much later", that's, again, not a huge deal. It's fine without, but also probably nice with a count. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:27, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Food Stall color

I don't get what you meant by that. The other Festival Plaza facilities don't share the same progression of palettes with each other. In fact, a majority of the most common ones are primarily or partially red, not blue. Plus there is nothing I've ever seen of Alola having some overarching color scheme outside the island names being colors in Hawaiian, and those four aren't applicable there, or with any of the different facility palettes.

I get keeping the descriptions of the facility palettes simple, but unless there's something in the game's code or from a guidebook that has official names for the facility colors that I'm not aware of, I just don't see what you mean by them having explicit palettesVoltdetector (talk) 02:47, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Let me get the issue of the "palette" out of the way. There are actually two reasonable color "palettes" you can take from SM/USUM. The first is the simple 7 "primary" colors of ROYGBIV, as seen in Poké Bean colors and Minior's forms. The second is seen in the 8 colors you can dye clothes in (which many fashion items also naturally have). (Pink is the "odd man out" in the latter set; "navy blue" could be considered a parallel to "indigo" and "purple" a parallel to "violet", and all other colors have the same names.)

Now—if we exclude the obviously Pokemon-themed colorations of some facilities—every facility's color scheme is plainly based on one of these "primary" colors...or black. The black is a huge through line, so that gets a pass. But "brown" is not part of Alola's "palette" and it's not even remotely a significant pattern with any other facilities. Calling that one facility theme "brown" is ignoring the blatant pattern that everything else fits in; it's not reasonable that just one doesn't, especially when there are plain elements of a primary color in the building's color scheme. It may be relatively subdued, but it is the most meaningful label for this. Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:07, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

That's quite an arbitrary rule to apply to this. You're just applying the standard ROYGBIV, not something unique to the Pokemon games themselves, like Floette flowers, or the island colors. Plus, unlike the island colors, which are far more prevalent in Alola (Battle Royal Dome's stage entrances, the Battle Royal Dome symbol itself, Oricorio's forms, parts of the respective Island Kahunas' clothing, the Island Guardians), there's only two seemingly solid cases of it: Minior and Poke Beans.

As well, those two are not perfect matches for ROYGBIV. The "blue" and "indigo" Minior Forms and Poke Bean colors are closer to being cyan and blue, respectively. I checked the RGB levels of the sprites in an editing program and none of the "Indigo" ones had red levels higher than their green levels Which for Indigo the RGB levels are usually around 75,0,130. The "blue" ones were far from being dominantly blue, having a fair mix of green and blue, which shades of Cyan usually have. Not to mention the "blue" pattern bean is nearly entirely white.

All this, along with the Pink and Navy Blue dye shops and the odd Black themed facilities throughout not fitting with the ROYGBIV palette, leads me to the conclusion that it's not nearly as concrete of a design theory as it might seem.

In conclusion, I think that we should provide descriptions of objects and locations based on what we see, not based on our assumptions. Voltdetector (talk) 06:44, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

If the games want to identify whatever shades as "blue" or "indigo" or whatever, so long as it's halfway reasonable (i.e., not "blue" for orange), that's their choice and not even something worth arguing...

Among the other three food stall variations, the only things that consistently match the obvious color theme are the checkers and the paneling flanking them. The first food stall variation bucks that pattern, with those parts having different colors. And, of the two parts, I think it's profoundly reasonable to focus on the checker pattern. Brown isn't remotely worth calling a color scheme, it's just wood, a default. The plain design touch is the blue checkers. Tiddlywinks (talk) 12:18, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Ok, I'll concede, I hadn't checked what the in-game Pokedex names Minior's forms prior to now. Poke Beans also likely follow that scheme, even if it's not as solid, there's still 7 of them and they somewhat follow ROYGBIV. The same for the dye stalls; Navy Blue could just be a mistranslation of Indigo. (and I just thought of Pink being there to fully represent the Island colors alongside ROYGBIV)

But I still think it's quite a large leap in logic to assume that other things in-game fit that when they don't come in a set of 7 colors that resemble ROYGBIV as those three examples do. Voltdetector (talk) 20:52, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't think there's a big leap of logic, but I don't think that's the only reason to choose "blue" either. Like I said, that's really the only reasonable color you can point to as the design choice ("brown" is not the design choice, it's just the foundation). Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:43, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Once again, that's a very arbitrary distinction. Brown is a color just the same as blue is. I don't see what makes it different from any other color that makes it just a "foundation". Regular wooden surfaces are just as valid in real life for designing building exteriors or interiors as any painted surface. Voltdetector (talk) 04:38, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I really don't think this is hard. Blue is a color that the other variations have used. Brown isn't. There's simply NO good reason to choose brown uniquely here instead of blue. Tiddlywinks (talk) 06:29, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Grant (trivia)

I simplified my earlier edit to include only Geodude - though Roxanne does have an Onix- in rematches that is.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 08:33, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

What do you mean not enough Rock-type gym leaders - how many does there have to be for a comparison?PardescanSlowbro (talk) 09:48, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Maybe 10. Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:25, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Serrebi

Hi. Noticed your post on a user's page. Wnat to know, what iss tealing from Serribbi? Is it not fair use to note facts regardless of who discovered them? I am not an expert in law so it seems quite new to me (after all, I did not underatand copyright or IP rights well until a few years ago). RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 00:26, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

It's pretty simple. Serebii has expressed that they do not allow other sites to take their information. If you find something at Serebii, you'll have to find an independent source or confirm it on your own before you can edit it here. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:29, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I understand. But is there any legal reason to avoid? I do not plan on posting anything from there (rarely visit it anyway), but just wondering. Does this mean research can be copyrighted? RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 01:38, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

As they say: I am not a lawyer. All I can say is that BP staff wouldn't long tolerate anyone continually trying to use Serebii's info here. We have no desire to antagonize them. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:48, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Did not realize there were people like that. One learns somthing new every day. RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 02:04, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Fossil Pages

Hiya! I got the individual Fossil pages on my userspace I believe are ready to be mainspaced. If you deem they are, how would we go about this procedure with the current X and Y Fossils format? Lanthanum (talk) 01:27, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

untitled

Stick to your pages and I'll stick to mine. Thanks. - unsigned comment from Vyper3006 (talk • contribs)

This does not constitute a discussion. I await any substance. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:05, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

You have it.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPoQ7QU8fR_pFFfBvm488IP_N3sMzgzFflr2t9C

Why are you saying it isn't a real card?

List of moves and abilities affecting abilities

You undid my edit, saying that it was "already mentioned". Where was it already mentioned? sumwun (talk) 18:15, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Where you put it before and where I removed those tables, easily visible if you look at the diff. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:30, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

You only told me not to put the tables above the list of abilities, so I re-added them below the list of abilities. Why can't I have the tables there? sumwun (talk) 23:02, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm confused. Do you or do you not realize that the things you want to add are currently on the page already? Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:40, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I realized just now. Oh well. sumwun (talk) 02:46, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Unacceptable User Name chain

An array of users named after Communists has just shown up. Might want to nip this in the bud.--BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 02:07, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Types and "metagame" information

Why is information about "the metagame" (stuff like "this type is good when combined with this other type") allowed on the pages about types but nowhere else? sumwun (talk) 23:27, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Thunder wave

When I added that trivia (or trivium or whatever), I meant thunder wave was the only status move whose immunities behave according to the type chart. You know, the one that looks like this.

×	Defending type
×
A t t a c k i n g t y p e	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	½×	1×	0×	½×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×
	2×	1×	½×	½×	1×	2×	½×	0×	2×	1×	1×	1×	1×	½×	2×	1×	2×	½×
	1×	2×	1×	1×	1×	½×	2×	1×	½×	1×	1×	2×	½×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×
	1×	1×	1×	½×	½×	½×	1×	½×	0×	1×	1×	2×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×
	1×	1×	0×	2×	1×	2×	½×	1×	2×	2×	1×	½×	2×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×
	1×	½×	2×	1×	½×	1×	2×	1×	½×	2×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	1×	1×	1×
	1×	½×	½×	½×	1×	1×	1×	½×	½×	½×	1×	2×	1×	2×	1×	1×	2×	½×
	0×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	1×	1×	½×	1×
	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	1×	1×	½×	½×	½×	1×	½×	1×	2×	1×	1×	2×
	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	½×	2×	1×	2×	½×	½×	2×	1×	1×	2×	½×	1×	1×
	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	2×	1×	1×	1×	2×	½×	½×	1×	1×	1×	½×	1×	1×
	1×	1×	½×	½×	2×	2×	½×	1×	½×	½×	2×	½×	1×	1×	1×	½×	1×	1×
	1×	1×	2×	1×	0×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	½×	½×	1×	1×	½×	1×	1×
	1×	2×	1×	2×	1×	1×	1×	1×	½×	1×	1×	1×	1×	½×	1×	1×	0×	1×
	1×	1×	2×	1×	2×	1×	1×	1×	½×	½×	½×	2×	1×	1×	½×	2×	1×	1×
	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	½×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	1×	0×
	1×	½×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	1×	1×	½×	½×
	1×	2×	1×	½×	1×	1×	1×	1×	½×	½×	1×	1×	1×	1×	1×	2×	2×	1×
These matchups are suitable for Generation VI onward.

According to that chart, grass and electric are not immune to anything, so the fact that stun spore couldn't hit them had to be programmed separately. What I was trying to say earlier was that thunder wave was the only status move that behaves according to this chart and was not programmed separately. Do you understand what I'm trying to say now? sumwun (talk) 23:27, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

I still don't think it's so important a difference that it's worth any trivia. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:52, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Klinklang

Hello. On the page for Klinklang, you removed my trivia because it was noticeable. Noticeable Trivia does appear a fair bit on Bulbapedia and if you looked at the Gen 5 Sprites, it isn't that obvious. I'm just wondering why it was removed as such. Thanks. Ice Cream 15:33, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

We just don't list things already visible on the page. That's just repetitive, when anyone can see it if they care. Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:20, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

How?

Seriously, how did you not see the poor English and punctuation in these edits? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 20:47, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

What do those matter? It's not at all unintelligible. The changes it seems you've now made are minor. That's not even remotely a basis for outright rejection. If you don't want to fix it, leave it alone, you can't revert it just because it bugs you a bit. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:01, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

I reverted those because I wasn't sure what the original editor was trying to communicate due to the poor English, and I feared that any changes I made would ruin the intended meaning. For example, with the second diff, it mentions a "Gyarados hot spring tap". Since I didn't see that episode, I didn't know if the Gyarados was a typo, or if the hot spring tap was supposed to be shaped like a Gyarados, or if there was a missing key word. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 21:25, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

That's just one (arguable) sentence. Not remotely warranting wholesale reversion. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:09, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Like I said, one change could've ruined the whole meaning the user was trying to communicate, and I couldn't leave it like that. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 01:14, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

...That doesn't mean reverting the whole thing was right. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:16, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, what was I supposed to do? And yes, I know that I did "improvements" after you undid my reversion, but I'm still not confident that was what the user was trying to say. It was that confusing to me. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 01:17, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

You can try talking. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:16, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Kinda hard to do that now that the user thinks I'm a racist. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:31, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, that's just an excuse to give up. ...Don't. (Also, that is not how I read their message.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:19, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Flavor Page

I'm relatively new to editing wikis, so I'm not sure if I ought to "...discuss this one first" here on your talk page, or on the Flavor article's talk page, but I figured I'd start here to give myself a better chance of being sure that you read this and don't accidentally miss it.

My main issue with the Flavor page as it stands now is that the Apricorn section has the flavors listed in the "correct" order (that being Spicy, Sour, Dry, Bitter, and Sweet) while the page's intro, flavor preference table, Contest/Pokéathlon table, and the berry tables for gens III, IV, and e-Reader all have the flavors listed in the following order: Spicy (+Atk), Dry (+SpA), Sweet (+Spe), Bitter (+SpD), and Sour (+Def) [so not quite half-and-half, like I first thought - that's my bad].

This is, to me, pretty unintuitive, since stats are most always ordered HP (N/A here), Atk, Def, SpA, SpD, and Spe. I was actually looking at the flavor page for more info about confusion berries and ended up super confused (hah, didn't even mean for that silly little joke to happen) for a moment because of the ordering of the flavors (though that may just be indicative of ignorance on my part). Because 6/7 sections have the flavors ordered in the "weird" way, I'm beginning to think that there's probably a reason for it. If there is and I'm missing it, then please do let me know! However, even if that were to be the case, I, personally, still think that ordering the flavors to match with the traditional order of stats would be more beneficial overall. It makes things easier for dumb-dumbs like me, so that we don't have to go to an entirely different page in order to figure out what the heck is going on.

And, just on the off chance that you're considering it, there's no need to copy-paste that table onto the Flavor page - the current table is totally fine for its page (though I certainly wouldn't complain if I could reinstate my edited version of it!), since it's more focused on the flavors themselves, rather than the increase and decrease of stats that come along with most natures. At the very least, we ought to make all seven sections consistent, one way or the other.

Thanks!

~Mimikyuuuuuuu (talk) 05:12, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

First things first, there is only one place on that page where any of those basic stats is mentioned at all ("Attack"). On the rest of the page, no one will be able to tell what stat each flavor corresponds to without a whole bunch of cross-referencing (or memorization). So the proposition that an "incorrect" order might be any particular problem is fairly dubious.

FYI, it was also kind of a problem that you didn't change all of the tables. (I don't mean to say that it's okay for you to make the change if you do everything up "right".)

My primary concern about the "proper" order was that I'd like to know what the games actually do. And Contest categories are listed in the order Cool Beauty Cute Smart Tough, just as the second table currently on the page shows. IMO this is a fine order since Contests are pretty strongly linked with the flavors (at least stronger than anything else). There doesn't seem to be any real consistency in other things, like the stat order when viewing a Pokéblock, the default order of the Apricorns, the performance stat order...

Given that general inconsistency, it may be reasonable to default to the order of basic stats. But personally, I don't think it's that huge a deal, either.

(FYI, you can usually make comments on a mainspace talk page first. It's much easier for other people to contribute opinions there. And people will generally pay some attention...especially if they've explicitly suggested the talk page. But even if you don't seem to get a resonse, you can always make a short comment on the person's user talk page to direct their attention to the talk page you commented on.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:13, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Alola Dex in Ultras Sun and Moon

Hey there. I need your help with something. Can you add this to the Pokémon Infobox so I can add the dex numbers on the Pokémon that appeared in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon?: a2dex And maybe add a category like this? Category:Pokémon in the Alola Pokédex in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. Kinda like how you did in Pokémon Black 2 and White 2. Seabiscuit2020 (talk) 15:59, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

As we've told a number of people who have asked in other places, we are considering moving the 'dex numbers out of the infobox. As you can see on Zubat's page, its infobox is already very well packed with the 'dex numbers. Trying to make a new format so we can add another could be very complex, especially with the more or less random nature of which 'dex numbers each Pokemon has. We think that putting that info somewhere else may be better. There still has not been a decision on the matter. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:10, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Quotes

I'm planning to redo all the quotes for characters in core series games (I have nothing to do), while filling out any missing quotes. I just wanted to check a few things.

Do references to other characters and items requires linking to the articles; the names for the characters or items aren't directly stated (example)?
Do quotes in "scream" speech bubbles need to be bolded? (example - first line in USUM section: "This is excellent! Exciting, even...")
For battles, are "Before battling, Upon being defeated, After being defeated, If the player is defeated" the correct terms to use? (I think I previously discussed with you before, but another admin sometimes changed the "Upon being defeated" back to "Being defeated".)

Are do these doesn't really matter at all? (I doubt anybody pays attention to the quotes section) Thanks. — Ruixiang 95 09:04, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure about linking indirect references. Right now...I suppose if it were me, I wouldn't remove them but I also don't know if I would be motivated to add them. (Very possibly, if I were specifically looking at something, I might realize that the links are a good idea; or possibly the opposite. Right now, though, I'm just not sure.)

Personally I don't like bold for screaming. It's never come across like it was actually supposed to be screaming to me.

I do prefer that set, with the exception that "if the player is defeated" is unnecessary since the first half already entirely implies that. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:00, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Cute Charm

The sentence, "The set of possible values depends on the gender of the Pokémon with Cute Charm, and if the Pokémon with Cute Charm is female, the wild Pokémon's gender ratio." looked kind of weird and I thought it had a grammar error. It looked like it was trying to say something like "depends on the gender of the Pokemon, whether the Pokemon with Cute Charm is female, and the wild Pokemon's gender ratio." Can we possibly make it more clear and obvious that it isn't a grammar error? sumwun (talk) 03:04, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Fixed. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:08, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Okay thanks. sumwun (talk) 14:55, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

The Ash's Charizard gender debate, and the reason I ceased participation on it

Force Fire said this when I contacted them(my notes added to show my thought process reading this):

"First of all, Dennou is not a former staff member, he is still a senior administrator"

My mistake.

"Secondly, you need to stop going around like you have some sort of authority"

I know that and neither want nor care for authority on this site, nor have I been actively attempting to inflect such....Passion for rules =/= projecting authority or seniority unless you are assuming bad faith/intent on my end...

"Thirdly, just because I've been very strict on anything gender related, doesn't mean I'm going to say "no" every single time"

I'd like an example of them saying yes on non-Force Fire-written and mandated gender policy-based evidence, but they're right in a way).

"There is actual legitimate evidence/source for Dennou's claim"

Tomioka is invoking Word of God like JK Rowling retconned a Jewish Student into Hogwarts despite wizards and witches having no prior evidence of organized religion besides the occasional "my God"...that's how Word of God works, which this echoes IMO.

"Tomioka is an actual writer for the show, so he probably knows more and probably has control over how he wants characters to be portrayed"

Does he have authority over other anime staff? Is he the one who OKs final decisions? I don't know if this is true or if Force Fire is assuming this (And if so, based on what)?.

"Tracy West novelisations is not written by a writer from the (Japanese) show. There's a big difference"

Yeah, it was a bad, rather sarcastically-motivated example in hindsight)

...I feel bad for ever entering into it based on a big red warning label on the top of the talkpage...Am I supposed to feel ashamed for even trying to quote policy? Did it really come off as bossing people around in a Brainy Smurf-esque way via poor wording? Or did I catch Force Fire in a bad mood/at a bad time...can you sort this out my confusion/shame? --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 02:34, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

ForceFire can answer best for ForceFire, as I rule I don't like to speak for others.

I think keeping in mind the possibility that you might be wrong is a way not to sound too bossy. If there's one thing I hate, it's being wrong. So I try to ask myself what I'm overlooking; it can be a bitter pill, but I like the other option less. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:24, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm not asking you to speak for ForceFire:I'm asking if I should feel ashamed for even discussing the matter if I'm not someone important enough. And just cause I report rulebreaks doesn't mean I think I'm a cop, judge, jury or executioner:At best I'm a tipster. --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 12:52, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

You asked if Force Fire was in a bad mood. I do not know that. (And I'm not going to just ask and be a relay.)

I'm not certain where you get the idea that only "important" people can discuss any particular thing on the wiki or whatever.

But generally I would not say you should feel bad. That probably won't really ease anything, but it may help move past it. (Which isn't to say there shouldn't be anything that can be learned from the matter.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:43, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

That was meant to be rhetorical. I'm sorry for that not being worded in such a way.

It does seem that some people, like Lady Ariel, Pumpkinking, Playerking and FinnishPokémonfan get a lot more "freebies" regarding importance and/or extra rulebreaks, so I tend to feel that they are given special treatment due to edit count despite their lack of staff status and/or serial troublemaking.

That's what I needed to hear. I will rejoin the discussion now that my head's clear. --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 22:42, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

If you're comparing (contrasting, rather, I suppose) those users to yourself, no one on staff has gone to your user talk page about anything for, it looks like, very nearly a whole 3 years. You're not in any special trouble about anything. (...To the extent of my knowledge. Which is mainly just a paranoid disclaimer.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:40, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Smogon and fansite rulings

If Showdown(created, owned and maintained by Smogon) isn't a reliable source(Though I think it should be, but Verlisify fans/sympathizers run this site and Serebii, methinks), why is Smogon OK for some reason? They're one and the same, and they cross-reference each other. And have they given permission to use their info? Or is it a case of petty rivalry based on perceived betrayal(s) and flimsy accusations between webmasters that lead to digital Iron Curtains like with Serebii and PokéBeach(That needs to end...That was how many years ago? Talent gets moved around all the time...), and no permission is given/received between them and us? Or should I ask EB/Archaic(To see if he has an old, unnecessary grudge with Smogon's owner, as well)for a more concrete status of Smogon/Showdown? --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 03:16, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Look. If you're gonna come to my talk page with your mind already set against us like this and just being antagonistic, I'm not gonna be inclined to give you any remotely substantive response.

Have a good day. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:16, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

I apologize for that rant...I had just seen Avengers:Infinity War earlier this week, and it made me...emotional, to say the least. I would like to know why Smogon is a valid source but Showdown isn't, though. ::Again, sorry for that. --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 01:44, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Source code about source code is a step beyond what we're comfortable with trusting. Put simply, Showdown's accuracy always has to be couched in a caveat. Only the game can truly be trusted to perfectly represent the game. Showdown has had to correct mistakes, and we can't necessarily say where remaining ones are or aren't. It's one thing to look at the game and say, see, because of this, this is how that works; it's another thing to look at Showdown and say, well, Showdown says this—and chances are pretty good it's right. Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:03, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Re: Air Cutter trivia

Sorry if my edit summary was unclear. What I meant was, since there are no Triple Battles in Generation VII (set in Alola), Flying-type attacks introduced in that generation can't hit non-adjacent Pokémon (since there are none). So this feature of the move is no longer unique. I'm surprised the trivium hasn't already been removed. Dinosauramiable (talk) 21:57, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

If you're talking about a feature unique to Triple Battles, you can't say anything about moves that you can't use in Triple Battles. The inverse is that you can use every other move in Triple Battles to hit non-adjacent foes, and this is not a thing you can rate true/false for new moves because (again) you can't use them in Triple Battles. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:10, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

In that case, the trivium should specify "the only pre-Generation VII damaging Flying-type move" or something instead of "the only damaging Flying-type move"; right now it's misleading. Unless that makes it not notable... Dinosauramiable (talk) 22:14, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

It says "in Triple Battles", it's not rightly logical to consider moves you could never use in Triple Battles. Tiddlywinks (talk) 22:19, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Fine. Dinosauramiable (talk) 22:19, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Ancient Trait Cards

Dear Tiddlywinks,

I was hoping you could answer some of my queries:

1. I have noticed that the Ancient Trait 'variety' of card renowned for its artwork style differences and ancient trait abilities (not included in other card types, though some cross over exists with some Mega Evolution cards also listed as Ancient Trait cards e.g. M Sceptile and M Rayquaza) is not listed as a TCG Pokémon card type, is there a reason for this?

2. Also should Kingdra's Primal Clash 108 and XY39 (which redirects to Primal Clash 108) cards be listed as separate cards in the Ancient Trait article due to artwork differences or not?

I look forward to hearing your response,

Thank you in advance.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 04:19, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

I know very little about the TCG. You would do better to ask someone else. Possibly glik, or anyone who regularly contributes to TCG pages. Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:19, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 06:07, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Deletions by user:GrammarFreak01

Thank you for stepping in last time, though GrammarFreak01 has again deleted all of my work leaving a useless comment behind to justify the drastic action. I was concerned maybe what I had written was to detailed, though my additions were in regards to Cameran Palace's various rooms visited in M08. I may be wrong, but I believed at the time of writing that the information was appropriate for the page dedicated to the location. GrammarFreak01 has been advised against such actions and ways to better handle any personal concerns, including contacting the user at hand; none of which has occurred. I do not wish to enter an edit war, and would like my changes reinstated, even if modified, and actions taken against the user for overstepping the mark one too many times. I do not believe the actions are of a personal nature, and have witnessed them against other users. Hope to hear shortly PardescanSlowbro (talk) 07:40, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I did not understand the point of describing every single room inside. And what other users are you talking about? You're making a pretty serious accusation there. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:48, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry for not responding sooner. I've been trying to think, and I also haven't heard much from others I've tried to ask.

My thoughts are, I know that game locations can have pretty detailed descriptions. And the areas that were described do not seem to be accounted for any other way on the page. So it seems to me the additions might be worthwhile.

I think the best idea may be to try to start a wider discussion about if that's needed. That may be able to inform a stronger conclusion a little while later. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:25, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Tiddlywinks, a bit of an update. I streamlined what I had previously put in, deeming it of value given that these rooms were visited in the movie and having looked at other location pages, such details appear to be of interest. Fantastic news, instead of deleting the new additions, user GrammarFreak01 swapped a few sentences around to give the page a better structure. I'm really happy with the result. I would still have preferred discussion with GrammarFreak01 before deleting all of the additions. I might draft a generalist checklist for any future location pages, unless we already have one of those?. Thanks for getting back to me PardescanSlowbro (talk) 23:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm not really into the anime so I don't really know much about specifics of their structure or anything. (Like I didn't know that any other anime locations went into similar details.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Shipping:List of anime shippings

So what's the inclusion criteria for that list? I notice that the content that I deleted obviously has their own articles, but other main character ships like PokéShipping and AmourShipping are not included despite having articles of their own. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 23:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

There are two options. Just include any anime shippings like the page title fundamentally implies. Or ask someone who might know what "line" there is (and then also describe that line at the top of the page; although I can't really imagine why there should be any such line). Tiddlywinks (talk) 23:19, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

I can't imagine doing the second option since it's actually been over a year since there were any edits done to that page before me, so obviously no one's really keeping track of it. I guess I'll go with the first option when I have the time. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 23:27, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Promotions

Am I allowed to congratulate you on your new administrator status? sumwun (talk) 02:53, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Sure. (And thanks.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:53, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations on your new administrator status! sumwun (talk) 06:03, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Alola League

Why do we not need the thing you removed? It could be helpful. - unsigned comment from Elite4Alola (talk • contribs)

It's already on Pokémon League (Alola). Tiddlywinks (talk) 09:36, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

About the Spaceworld demo...

I want to ask you a question. How can you prove the legitimacy of the ROM? I mean, it fits everything we know about the ROM, and it fits the Honoguma picture that surfaced in 2013, but at the same time it has some some things that sound fanservice-y (Misty as an Elite Four, Red as a Gym Leader...). I'm asking because I'm curious.. --Prog rocker (talk) 03:19, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't know. It's not really my decision. Tiddlywinks (talk) 10:59, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for answering my question.--Prog rocker (talk) 21:12, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Individual Pokémon in Shuffle weekly cycle

May I know how do we plan to include where/when the Pokémon appears in the "Game location: In side games" section of each individual Pokémon for Pokémon Shuffle? I doubt we need to include the UX Stages since it's the same as the initial Main Stages. Here are a few suggestions for Special Stages:

Daily, Special Daily, Safari etc. (With form differences):

Event: Special Daily Pokémon (Winking; First release) ^{(Prior to February 13, 2018)}
Event: Special Daily Pokémon (Winking; Week 4 & 16) ^{(From February 13, 2018 onward)}
Event: Special Daily Pokémon (Winking; First release)*
Event: Special Daily Pokémon (Winking; Week 4 & 16)*
Event: Special Daily Pokémon (Winking; First release — Prior to February 13, 2018)
Event: Special Daily Pokémon (Winking; Week 4 & 16 — From February 13, 2018 onward)

Daily, Special Daily, Safari etc. (Without form differences):

Event: The Daily Pokémon (#6) ^{(Prior to February 13, 2018)}
Event: The Daily Pokémon (Week 7 & 19) ^{(From February 13, 2018 onward)}

Great, Ultra, Special Challenges etc.

Event: Mimikyu Appears ^{(Prior to February 13, 2018)}
Event: Mimikyu Appears (Week 6) ^{(From February 13, 2018 onward}

Or simply just

Event: Mimikyu Appears (Week 6)

Or do not add anything until how Pokémon Shuffle will display from now onward are fully decided? — Ruixiang 95 10:30, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I hardly know anything about Shuffle off the top of my head, honestly. CycloneGU was into Shuffle, but they haven't been that active recently, though I think they've still kind of got an ear to Bulbapedia.

If you want me to figure it out, I'd start real basic. Like, when you ask "how do we plan to include [...]", it sounds like there's no location info for Shuffle on at least some pages. From above, I can identify Pikachu and Mimikyu, who do seem to have location info, so I'm confused. Are you actually saying that the current info is inadequate? Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:54, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And yeah, haven't seen him around lately. Perhaps I can just leave this on his talk page until he sees it. Currently, the info already on each individual Pokémon pages are Special Stages (Event) that is prior to the update on February 13. Now, the Special Stages are pre-set for each week. I just wanted to ask if Bulbapedia wants to separate them from the two versions. But I guess I'll just leave a message at CycloneGU's talk page. Sorry for bothering. :) — Ruixiang 95 12:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Template pages

Do templates usually get a move tag if they need to be tagged to be moved? This is because I have noticed that two of them had incorrect/incomplete page names and I wasn't sure if those types of tags go on templates aside from normal pages. Patty Man 04:07, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Tagging templates can easily be done wrong, so it may be simpler to just bring it up with someone on staff. (Besides, template names don't really affect a whole lot, people don't really see them, so they may not even be a huge problem, depending.)

What "should" the linked templates be titled? (And what's wrong with the current title?) Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:54, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

The Ash and Pikachu one, it was missing an amphersand sign since the actual manga contained that instead of the original and and the Battrio manga adaptation one was the one that didn't contain the whole manga title in its name for the template. It was for consistency reasons since many of the other templates containing manga characters had the full titles, such as this one. Hope this helps. Patty Man 21:23, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@@ Line 1,226: / Line 1,226: @@
 :Tagging templates can easily be done wrong, so it may be simpler to just bring it up with someone on {{bp|staff}}. (Besides, template names don't really affect a whole lot, people don't really see them, so they may not even be a huge problem, depending.)
 :What "should" the linked templates be titled? (And what's wrong with the current title?) [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 11:54, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
+::The Ash and Pikachu one, it was missing an amphersand sign since the actual manga contained that instead of the original ''and'' and the Battrio manga adaptation one was the one that didn't contain the whole manga title in its name for the template. It was for consistency reasons since many of the other templates containing manga characters had the full titles, such as [[Template:Let's Play the Pokémon Card Game! Sun and Moon Arc characters|this one]]. Hope this helps. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 21:23, 6 June 2018 (UTC)