Talk:Ash Ketchum (M20)

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• Butterfree Release
• Move?
• Move? (Continued)
• REVIVED: Move? (Continued)
• Move move?

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Butterfree Release

So I was informed that Pokemon don't count as "owned" if caught for less than one episode. In that case, doesn't M20 count as "one episode"? Butterfree shouldn't be listed as released.Muur1234 (talk) 04:17, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

I'd count movies differently since they are longer. --Raltseye prata med mej 05:54, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Move?

The "M20" in the page name doesn't really fit anymore, now that this version of Ash has also appeared in another movie. I suggest that it should be moved to "Ash Ketchum (movie)". Anybody agree? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:48, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

While you're right, "Ash Ketchum (movie)" really isn't a good title because the original Ash has appeared in movies too. I'm not sure what would be a good title, maybe something like "Ash Ketchum (alternate continuity)" (also not the best, I admit...). In any case, this is something the staff needs to go over so anyone please hold off on moving. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 18:22, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Of course. I wasn't going to move this page without staff agreement, anyway. And I based the "movie" part on pages like Dialga (movie), Palkia (movie), and Giratina (movie), who, like this version of Ash, are recurring movie characters, who have appeared in more than one movie. Hope you can see where I'm coming from with this idea. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:35, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes I can see your thought pattern. But these were all from the same continuity. This Ash is from a differrent continuity, and moving this page to "Ash Ketchum (movie)" would clash with the original Ash, as the title would suggest AU Ash is also the Ash from Movies 1 to 19. I'm not totally discarding your title proposal of course, but I wanna hear from others if they have different suggestions.☼ BlazingFist ☼ 18:40, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

I suggest keeping the original title. "Ash Ketchum (alternate continuity)" sounds good, but we'll never know if they decide to introduce yet another alternate continuity featuring Ash in the future. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 21:54, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm also fine with that. As abcboy pointed out elsewhere, some pages for recurring characters have their debut epicode in the title. It would save a lot of hassle just keeping it the way it is. But keep suggestions coming. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 22:02, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

I suggest removing every bit of information regarding M21 from this page. I don't know why we're discussing moving this page to a different title when we have zero proof that M20 and M21 are set in the same continuity. --Mikuri 00:00, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

We also seem to have zero proof that M20 and M21 are NOT set in the same continuity. Perhaps we need to do research first before considering such a move. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 02:28, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent) Perhaps you need to research the meaning of onus probandi. You have to present evidence that M20 Ash and M21 Ash are the same character, not the other way around. --Mikuri 02:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, I do not support such a move. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 02:43, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@Mikuri Instead of derailing the move conversation you could have started another topic but since you asked: when M21 was announced, a short snippet was released on pokemon.co.jp:

“キミにきめた！”から始まった、新たな冒険。2018年のポケモン映画最新情報が、ついに解禁！

Which translates to:

A new adventure, started by "I Choose You!". The latest info on the 2018 Pokemon movie is finally revealed! ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 10:59, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh and the snippet can be found on this page before the legitimacy is doubted: https://www.pokemon.co.jp/info/cat_anime/#page=1 ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 14:14, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Why not "Ash Ketchum (I Choose You)" or "Ash Ketchum (ICY)" then? It's been done for characters with multiple incarnations like "Ash Ketchum (ETOP)" and "Red (Adventures)" for example. Shadao (talk) 03:48, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:55, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Agreed with "Ash Ketchum (ICY)". --Sk8erPrince (talk) 10:51, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

What is the actual difference between (M20) and (ICY)? The beginning of this discussion came from the fact that Ash has appeared in both movies. Changing M20 to ICY is both doing the same thing and confusing in my humble opinion. (→ Rockapheller, talk to me 18:48, 26 January 2019 (UTC))

Yeah, ICY is the same as M20. M21 would be POU. There wouldn't be any point in moving Ash Ketchum (M20) to Ash Ketchum (ICY) when ICY is an abbreviation for the same movie that M20 stands for. How about calling it Ash Ketchum (reboot) instead? SeanWheeler (talk) 21:13, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Move? (Continued)

Now that this same version of Ash is also due to appear in the next movie, how about we finally move this and Pikachu's page? I think "movie" would be a fitting replacement for "M20". --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 14:01, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Regular Ash has appeared in movies too you know, like BlazingFist said above. Ash (movie) is just not going to work.--ForceFire 16:54, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Good point. But I feel it also needs to refer to the movie continuity as a whole, instead of just M20. Maybe "AU" for "alternate universe"? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:36, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Movie Verse--Lego3400 (talk) 01:50, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

”M20 continuity”?--KnightGalarie (talk) 23:25, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

I still second "Ash Ketchum (ICY)". GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

No, ICY is the same as M20. Could "Ash Ketchum (reboot)" work? These are reboot movies and the only time I know the anime did any sort of continuity reboot. SeanWheeler (talk) 02:25, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

I feel "reboot" is too vague, though. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:28, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

But ICY is lateral and limiting--KnightGalarie (talk) 03:41, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Not really. As Shadao said, "Why not "Ash Ketchum (I Choose You)" or "Ash Ketchum (ICY)" then? It's been done for characters with multiple incarnations like "Ash Ketchum (ETOP)" and "Red (Adventures)" for example." GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

[Outdent] I agree with Force Fire, the proposed rename makes no sense when regular Ash has appeared in the majority of the movies. Current name seems fine in the absence of an official title for this continuinty. —Legoless (talk) 15:21, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I Agree with ya, I Mean, Ash (Movie) will fit him. Just give it the Redirect warning to Ash --> in the movie. Waddhya think? ---- User:GiratinaXYSaturn

REVIVED: Move? (Continued)

I agree with GiratinaXYSaturn on this one. Ash Ketchum (movie) makes sense. Just have a redirect inplace to Ash Ketchum -- In the movies. Champion Averie, signing off! (Need anything?) 19:59, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Move move?

We now have 3 different movie versions, where A: It's ambiguous if they are all the same in the first place, but even if we assume that, there's also B: Distant Blue Sky, which isn't even a movie and there's more reason to consider him different from the movie versions. Cause while he does start with the same cap as M20, at the end he has his OS Cap. Also he uses Aura here which didn't even come up in the other movies.

So I do think this page could be named something like: Ash Ketchum (AU) maybe. This way we can just have a dedicated page for alternate versions of him that have appeared now and maybe also in the future if they decide to do a special or movie with him that clearly doesn't take place in the same continuity. Totomeister (talk) 16:48, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, seems like the move tag on this page has been up for quite a while. I agree the argument for changing it to something other than M20 is quite strong now that we have three movies (M20, M21, M23) plus Distant Blue Sky! which feature an alternate universe Ash to the one in Pokémon the Series.

The options for new names we've seen so far on the talk page are Ash Ketchum (movie), Ash Ketchum (ICY), Ash Ketchum (AU), Ash Ketchum (alternate continuity).

My initial thoughts are that Ash Ketchum (movie) wouldn't be a good option since he appears in the older Pokémon movies set within the Pokémon the Series universe, and also Distant Blue Sky isn't a movie as mentioned.

Ash Ketchum (ICY) would be more in line with how we describe this continuity more widely on the site, within headers and such like in Team Rocket trio#I Choose You! trilogy, as we treat the three movies and Distant Blue Sky as the same specific I Choose You! trilogy continuity.

The (AU) and (alternate continuity) options could be a good ones too, leaving scope for another Ash in the future.

Interested to hear other people's thoughts too! Thespeon196 (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Fwiw, Mewtwo (M01) is a similar case, referring to "the Mewtwo from M01", just as this page refers to "Ash from M20". Landfish7 19:44, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Alternate universe/alternate continuity/anything similar would be bad because most manga would also be considered an alternate continuity than Pokemon the Series, so a parenthetical like that isn't properly disambiguating this from other topics.

I don't remember there being any issue with something like (I Choose You trilogy) or something. However, as M20 is the introduction of the character, it's perfectly fine to serve as the disambiguation of the page. ^Maverick_Nate 03:20, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

Yeah Mewtwo (M01) being the article on Mewtwo from the first movie but also the same Mewtwo in the Mewtwo Returns special and in Pokémon Journeys is a good example of the introduction / most synonymous appearance dabtag working in practice. There was much discussion about it on its talk page here.

Good point about the different mediums like manga being considered alternate universe/continuity too. I think that rules out those two potential dabtags as the last thing any page move should do is introduce confusion.

Ash (I Choose You! trilogy) being a specific alternate continuity could work in that respect, but the M20 dabtag being from his introduction works too. Thespeon196 (talk) 20:31, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

Also worth noting Alternate World Ash is a separate page on a separate character, which could lead to some confusion with referrals. I think either sticking with "M20" or switching to "ICY" or similar seem the best out of options proposed so far, personally. Driftin Soul (talk) 21:03, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

Really it comes down to whether M20 and co. should be moved, as they do not follow the main continuity. If this particular Ash is from this movie, that's what this page should be tagged. Eragon4 (talk) 12:35, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

I agree. To me "Ash Ketchum (M20)", or in other words "Ash from the 20th movie", is perfectly clear, even if he had other appearances after that. I don't really see anyone being confused about what "Mewtwo from movie 1" refers to, or "Darkrai from movie 10" (even though it cameos in movie 12). Landfish7 13:05, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

I think that's fair. From the discussion there's not a strong enough reason to move it from Ash Ketchum (M20) where the dabtag refers to the Ash that originated in that movie. The I Choose You! dabtag would be a bit unwieldy also, and would essentially mean the same thing. I think it would be best to keep the current name too. Thespeon196 (talk) 14:04, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Personally, I am a fan of "(I Choose You! trilogy)". While I understand that the intention of "(M20)" is to indicate the debut appearance, I think it's really not a great option for a character with roughly equal importance in a series of movies, since it's implying that M20 is his most notable appearance (as is the case for Mewtwo (M01) and Mewtwo (M16)). In the case of Mewtwo (M16) in particular, M16 isn't even that Mewtwo's debut appearance (Mewtwo — Prologue to Awakening is), but that special episode was created to tie-into and promote the movie. In fact, Mewtwo (M01)'s debut appearance was supposed to have been EP063 (which ties into the movie), but the Pokémon Shock incident messed up the TV series' schedule and the movie ended up airing first. (Even in that hypothetical scenario where the episode aired first, I still think "Mewtwo (M01)" would be the best title for the page.)

Now that we do actually have an established name on Bulbapedia for how to refer to the continuity shared by M20, M21, and M23 (which we didn't for a very long time), I think it would be worthwhile using that name in dabtags for pages about the continuity as a whole. Especially given that there is some ambiguity as to whether the Ash in M20 is the same Ash as in M21 and M23, so Bulbapedia could quite reasonably have separate "Ash Ketchum (M21)" and "Ash Ketchum (M23)" pages. I think ensuring the page title makes it clear that this page does cover the entire trilogy is a good idea. SnorlaxMonster 14:28, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

I get the appeal of "I Choose You! trilogy", but my concern is that it relies on a derived label rather than a primary identifier - the trilogy name comes from the first movie anyway, so it's one step removed from the actual source of disambiguation. Ash in M20 isn't just making his first appearance there, he is explicitly defined by that movie's "reset" continuity. That makes M20 less of a debut shorthand and more of a continuity marker, similar to how M01 functions for Mewtwo. Bulbapedia already treats movie abbreviations as standard, so using M20 applies an existing convention consistently rather than inventing a new one. To me, "Ash Ketchum (M20)" feels like the most consistent and least ambiguous option within existing practice. Landfish7 16:44, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

The way I see it, the current practice is normally to use the name of the series or medium as the dabtag (e.g. Red (Adventures) for a character who appears in the Adventures manga). I see "I Choose You! trilogy" as the name of the series that this Ash is from. It is exceedingly rare for Bulbapedia to use the name of the debut title in a dabtag, and the cases where we do (e.g. Mewtwo (M01)), it's being done because that is the character's most notable appearance, not specifically because it's the character's debut (as evidenced by how we handle Mewtwo (M16)). In my view, using the character's debut episode/movie as the dabtag would be a deviation from standard Bulbapedia practice; however, given the limitations we have in terms of naming in this case, I think it could be a justifiable one (and why this article has remained at this title even after the character starred in subsequent movies). I think using "M20" to mean "the character who debuted in M20" is a deviation from how we normally use epicode dabtags, whereas using the name of the series (even if the series name is unofficial) would be much more in line with standard Bulbapedia naming conventions.

"I Choose You! trilogy" ultimately is a conjectural name that Bulbapedia invented, so I can understand some hesitancy to use it in a dabtag. However, I personally think the benefits of using that title over "M20" (that I mentioned above) outweigh the downside of it being conjectural.

I don't quite understand your point about continuity markers. My best interpretation is that you're saying that the debut episode/movie of a particular continuity serves as a way to reference that continuity as a whole? If that is what you're arguing, I think it's certainly a way we could refer to continuities, I just don't think it is the only way to do so, nor necessarily the best way. I don't think "Delia Ketchum (EP001)" would be a good way to refer to Delia Ketchum if some other equally notable anime character with the same name were to be revealed (I think "Delia Ketchum (Pokémon the Series)" would be more aligned with how Bulbapedia dabtags are normally used). SnorlaxMonster 11:28, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

Episode-style dabtags on Bulbapedia are typically used for characters of the day who appear only once, whereas there's precedent for the MXX dabtags to function around a central point of continuity.

With something like Red (Adventures), Pokémon Adventures is an officially branded series. The "I Choose You! trilogy" by contrast is a retrospective label we use to group films that branch from M20, and the official framing we have for that series defines that "cinematic universe" around M20.

I agree this is an unusual edge case either way, but in that case, I'd prefer we maintain what has been functional. Landfish7 12:25, 11 February 2026 (UTC)