User talk:TBR2001

Welcome to Bulbapedia, TBR2001!

Thank you for joining our community! By creating an account you are now able to edit pages, join discussions, and expand the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia. This is a brief introduction to Bulbapedia's rules and resources to help you get started: All users are expected to follow the code of conduct and to be kind to one another. If you have a question, check out our FAQ; the manual of style provides detailed editing guidance, and the wikicode page provides details about how to use wikicode. You can always ask for help by contacting a staff member. Please preview your edits before saving them; this helps you double-check your changes and reduces the need for repeated minor edits. Use talk pages to discuss changes and resolve editing disputes. Creating a userpage is allowed after you've added to the encyclopedia; for more details, see the userspace policy. Sign all talk page posts with four tildes (~~~~) so people know who is commenting. This will turn into your name and the time you wrote the comment. For more handy links and information, check out the welcome portal.

Thank you, and have a good time editing here!   BigDocFan, Junior Admin Bulbapedia (talk) 15:59, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Pokemon Page links

When posting links to pages for individual Pokémon, please use {{p| instead of [[--BigDocFan, Junior Admin Bulbapedia (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I thought I did put the {{p| when I did those edits --TBR2001 (talk) 00:26, 17 October 2022 (UTC)TBR2001) 00:22, 17 October 2022 (UTC))

Redirect links

Please be aware that "Sync Move" is a redirect link. The correct name of the article is "Sync move", with both words written in lowercase if not at the start of a sentence. Thank you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:32, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting me, I already fix my mistake. --TBR2001 (talk) 03:30, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The Preview Button

Instead of editing a page several times in a row, try using the preview button to make sure your edit looks the way you want it to. It's right next to the Save Page button. Please try it out, so as not to clog up the Recent Changes. Also, if you want to edit multiple sections of the page, make sure that you click "edit this page" at the top of the page rather than editing it by section. Thanks! --Landfish7 22:35, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I always use the Preview Button, but sometimes I make dumb mistakes that I don't notice until I save the change, and I know I can fix it immediately so I just go back and edit it. I always feel guilty about it because I know I'm clogging up the Recent Changes. Thanks for telling me about the "edit this page", I knew there was some way I could edit the page instead of doing it one section at a time, but I guess I wasn't looking at the right place. Also sorry for some repetitive edits I'm currently doing. I'm just cross-referencing, and the way I'm doing it is going by one page at a time instead of one character at a time because it's easier for me to keep track.--TBR2001 (talk) 23:12, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

No worries. I've been there. As long as it's not excessive and like you're not listening or trying, there's no need to worry. Have a good day! Landfish7 06:17, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Masters origins

Hi, it's come to my attention that your additions to the origins of Masters characters are getting excessive and overly detailed. There's no need to mention irrelevant information like a Pokemon legendary/mythical status or going overboard with trying to justify an origin. Simple is best.--ForceFire 12:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry about that, but none of you deleted it so I thought I might as well be consistent when it came to editing the origin stuff. If you were curious I only limited myself to the Player Characters, and Rivals, with the only exception being Giovani because someone mentioned that he controlled Mewtwo in the movie. If I did it with everyone I would have driven myself crazy. As for the Pokemon legendary/mythical status stuff, I noticed some of the characters had it in their origin, and thought I might as well be consistent because no one deleted it. So I thought that no one added it or had the time to edit it in the others, so I decided to do it myself. One person tried to stop me, but by that time I only had one page left to edit the "missing" stuff. Sorry about that.

I know another user is already deleting some of the origin stuff I added, but I want to know what is considered excessive. Like I get listing all of the adaptations that have Red with Pikachu would be considered excessive, but what about stuff like Dawn's Cresselia? I don't think most people know that she temporarily had one in Pokémon Adventures, so I feel like that one is an actual connection. I acknowledge there is a difference between Plantuim temporarily owning Cresselia, compared to Serena temporarily commanding Ash's Frogadier, so I need to know what the line is. Like is Sapphire owning Wailord considered a connection to May owning Wailmer in Masters, or not because she never owns Wailmer? Or what if they gave Nate Samurott, do I reference Blake because he owns Dewott, or not because Blake never owns Samurott? Is referencing other anime like Pokemon Generations or Evolution, okay, or is it only for the main anime? Is referencing Pokemon Adventures okay, or are all manga considered obscure? Or is this something I should discuss with the other user? Anyway, sorry for the excessive and overly detailed stuff I added, but I'm a guy who likes things to be consistent, that's why I didn't want to exclude one manga or anime because others had it in their origin section. Plus I thought it would have given some fans who only know limited stuff about the Pokemon series the chance to explore other stuff in the Pokemon franchise. --TBR2001 (talk) 22:51, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Something is excessive when it's over explained. There's no need to go into detail about how a legendary is from the same generation as a character or a starter is from the same region as a character. As for manga connections, I think they're unnecessary if the game character also has that Pokemon in their teams in a game. The games connection is enough.--ForceFire 06:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Adding new Trivia

You've been adding lots of new trivia on Masters pages recently, usually worded as "This character is the first to have this feature". Note that just being first is not notable, so statements like "First Sygna Suit", "First Sygna Suit with Max Move", "First Sygna Suit with a Legendary", and so on are not generally notable. Someone has to be first in everything, but it doesn't have to be noted in Trivia section, like Pokémon don't have "First Electric-type Legendary" noted anywhere. If you could remove all non-unique cases you added and reword unique ones to "The only ...", it would be appreciated.

Now, this one is subjective, but even if a character has unique qualities, it doesn't always belong in the trivia. For example, "Morty & Ho-Oh are the only Sygna Suit sync pair with the Gym Leader theme skill, despite Morty not being the first Gym Leader who received a Sygna Suit" has two random factors thrown in together. Sure, it's true, but it's not anything important, not even trivia-level important. Like "Zekrom is the only Dragon/Electric Legendary" is true but not important enough to be noted anywhere - it's just a random quality of a Legendary Pokémon that happens to be unique. I'm sure lots of new trivia can be created by combing through Theme Skills, typings, categories, but once again, before adding new Trivia, ask yourself - do people want to know this? Is it interesting?

Also, per Manual of style: "Only link to an article once within a given portion of text; if you say "Ash" more than once in a paragraph, only link it the first time". You seemed to link articles more than once in a short amount of text, so take note in the future. Itan (talk) 19:59, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry about the Trivia thing, I only added those because the Sygna Suit Trivia was looking really lackluster, and I notice some patterns, like first to Mega Evolve, Z-Move, Dynamax, etc. So I thought I could add those to the main Sygna Suit page, but then I notice that some have trivia on some of the Sygna Suit characters, like "Morty & Ho-Oh are the only Sygna Suit sync pair with the Gym Leader theme skill, despite Morty not being the first Gym Leader who received a Sygna Suit", and I was like "I guess I add stuff like that because someone wrote it in and it wasn't taken out, which means it's noteworthy" which then lead me to a big rabbit hole. I too thought it was too excessive, but I didn't know what was notable and what wasn't, so I just added everything. I was only going to add to the Sygna Suit page but I saw stuff like "first..." on some of the Sygna Suit characters pages, and thought "I might as well be consistent". If you were curious, I only limited myself to Shiny, Legendaries, and Mythical, and any combinations of those for the first Pokémon.

As for the Manual of style stuff, the only reason I even added as many as I did was that I saw double links on almost every page I visited, so I thought "Well that is a little excessive, but there must be a reason they did it like this, so I might as well be consistent while I edit these pages" I ironically didn't want to upset anyone so I just added links to be consistent. I notice patterns like whoever added these links didn't usually do it the same way twice, for example.

Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon

Pokémon Ultra Sun

Pokémon Ultra Moon

Pokémon Sun, Moon Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon

So I thought it was some rule, no matter how excessive it got you have to add the links, and due to the number of double links in the character pages, I didn't want to go through every character to remove them.

Sorry for causing you guys trouble, you could have just told me and I would have undone it myself so you guys didn't have to undo all of my mistakes. --TBR2001 (talk) 21:36, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Well, most of the Trivia you added is still there, so you can correct it yourself if you want. As for links, a different name doesn't matter much if they lead to the same page.

Perhaps reading Bulbapedia policies and guidelines again would make it easier to spot do/don't. You can also ask other people for opinions when adding trivia - for example, in Bulbagarden Discord server. Itan (talk) 05:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Dawn and Lucas

The way I see it, Crystal's arc in Adventures heavily revolved around Suicune, whilst Diamond only briefly rode on Dialga and Platinum borrowed Cresselia. Neither of them bonded with them in a way similar to how Crystal bonded with Suicune during her arc. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 20:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I can understand that, but Diamond and Platinum are the only versions of Dawn and Lucas that have any connections to Cresselia and Dialga. If other versions of Dawn and Lucas had a stronger history with Cresselia and Dialga, then I would let it go, but even I didn't know the Sync Pairs could be a possible reference to Diamond and Platinum. Plus it wouldn't be true if you put "Dawn is not seen owning or associated with Cresselia outside this game", because at least one version of Dawn had Cresselia albeit borrowed. We know that Pokemon Masters likes to pull from all canons, so I don't think it's that hard to believe that Dawn and Lucas with Cresselia and Dialga can't be considered possible references to their Pokemon Adventures counterparts. Plus isn't trivia something for readers to learn an interesting fact? When reading the trivia reader should be "Oh cool, I didn't know this might be a possible reference to Pokemon Adventures" or "Wow, I didn't know that Dawn befriend Cresselia in Pokemon Adventures"

My viewpoint on Triva when regarding "Origins" is if there is a small connection to a version of those characters that has or is associated with that Pokemon, then put it in trivia. Before I would put every connection, but you people noted how long and bloated that made the trivia, which I agree with. I now try not to go too obscure and only do so when it is of note, like Pikachu's Gigantamax card which had Red on it before Red was Sync Paired with G-Max Pikachu. I also wouldn't put references beyond a character owning the Pokemon in the anime and Adventures, unless they don't have any association with the Pokemon in the main anime and Adventures. This is why I referenced Hilbert having an Oshawott in Pocket Monsters BW: Meetings with the Legends, as that is the only time a version of Hilbert is associated with Oshawott.

If you want to delete or keep the Trivia, I will respect your decision, I just want you to understand why I want to keep it. I'm just the type of person that likes consistency. Why should Kris get to keep her connection with Pokemon Adventures, but not Dawn and Lucas, despite all of them not owing the Pokemon? If it's only because Crystal has a stronger history with Suicune, I can understand, but I would rather keep the piece of trivia. --TBR2001 (talk) 21:48, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Battle appearances & Daily Type Rotation

Hey! Just dropping in to say thank you so much for creating Battle appearances headers for all the Masters characters and keeping the availability sections up-to-date for the trainers who appeared in Daily Type Rotation. It's really making my job a lot easier as I go through and make sure everyone's availability is up-to-date. Keep up the good work! Storm Aurora (talk) 06:15, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the comment. I also want to thank you for editing stuff relating to Masters. Before you came along, I was the one who updated all the battle appearances, and it was a pain to go through all the events pages to make sure I didn't miss any. I really appreciate that you made it easier to find all the events. I also want to say thanks for adding the story appearance. I wanted to add something like that for a while but that requires a lot more effort to keep track of which character appeared in what event, than which characters you battle in an event. So I appreciate that you are going through the effort to add them. I was also thinking about adding a story section for a character's pages that would explain what they did in the game's story and events, like how the core series characters have a summary of what they did in the games on their page. So having a story appearance will really help to make sure I don't miss any events that a character was in. So thanks for all the hard work and I hope you have a wonderful day. TBR2001 (talk) 22:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Masters Mega Evolutions

I noticed that you listed the Mega Evolutions you added to the Masters EX character articles with both of the type colors they have in the core series. Should they be listed with just their Masters type's colors? And should Gigantamax Pokémon get this same treatment? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:14, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I think maybe leaving it as the Masters type's colors would be better, as their base type doesn't change. I'll go ahead and change them after this. As for the Gigantamax Pokémon, I talked with User:Storm Aurora and they said that they can't get sprites of just the Gigantamax Pokémon because they only appeared in the Max Move/G-Max Move cutscenes, not menus. I would love to get the models of the Gigantamax Pokémon to upload, but me and Storm don't know how to extract or construct the models. If you somehow know how to get the Gigantamax Pokémon in the same quality as the other Pokémon images from Masters EX, I say add the Gigantamax Pokémon to the Masters EX character pages. TBR2001 (talk) 17:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Makes sense. And thanks for agreeing with the type colors and editing them. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:42, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Regarding listing Masters characters' sync pairs on their base character articles, should the Mega Evolving Pokémon be displayed with their base icons instead of their Mega Evolution icons? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:16, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Well I think they should be displayed in their Mega Evolve icons because it shows their Pokémon in their Mega Evolved state. Plus where else are we going to show those images? Feels like a waste to have them and not use them. However, maybe we should use the Mega Evolve icons in the "List of sync pairs" page to help differentiate the same Pokémon owned by different trainers, and have their base icons used in the base character pages as they are the only ones with the Pokémon on their page. For example, the player and Leon both have Charizard, while Red has a Charizard that can Mega Evolve into Mega Charizard X. It would help more people to see the difference between the 3 Charizards if one was in their Mega Evolved state, especially if they were looking at the list in the Pokédex order. I can change the icons myself if you agree with this possible change.TBR2001 (talk) 16:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

The list has previously agreed to keep using the base form image of Ash's Pikachu instead of the World Cap for he obtains as a result of the sync move, so I feel Mega Evolution should be the same way. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

changes to spin-off content

Hi! first of all, I'd like to ask you not to not put images on articles on chat if they don't exist. It makes the pages look incredibly dirty and nobody wants to see dead links.

But this main discussion is about deeming what counts as "unnecessary". Why should minimal information on a character's first appearance and story usage be considered unnecessary in Masters? Giving full context is one thing but telling them the most basic of information is rather crucial, makes the page look more full, gives per-information before moving to the next page and overall just explains things better. What is deemed as "unnecessary" is rather subjective and I want to know TrainerSplash (talk) 07:20, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I left those images there for someone to eventually upload the missing image. I would upload it myself, but I can't get the image, so I hope someone sees the missing image and uploads it so it can be fixed. If I hide it, then no one will know that there is a missing image that needs to be uploaded.

As for "unnecessary" edit I made. The reason I did that is because most pages that talk about Masters, just list the character and the Pokémon they have, nothing else. It seems strange that only two characters, Elio and Selene, are the only characters to mention their debut and when they were scoutable, when none of the other characters have this information in their Masters EX section. Plus it's not like the information is lost, as you can still find when they debuted and when they became scoutable in their own Masters pages. The only thing I think a person is looking for when reading the Masters section on a character's page is, whether they are playable in the game, and which Pokémon they have. Elio and Selene both already have this information, anything else is just extra and really unnecessary, and they can also find other information they might be looking for on the actual character's Masters page. I don't think not knowing when a character debuted and when they were scoutable is considered precious information that needs to be mentioned on the original characters page. TBR2001 (talk) 21:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't mind the smash pallet images being there, but if they don't exist they just shouldn't be there at all. Don't assume someone will upload them because of an empty image like that, it just makes the page muddy.

Selene and Elio weren't the only ones Lillie had it too. I've been slowly adding that information because nobody has been doing it themselves, I'm one person and focus on specific information so I can't get to everyoen at the same time. Just because other characters dont' have like-information doesn't mean it should be removed, and can easily just be added to other pages if its not there with no reason to remove it. Multiple pages can have the same information, there's no issue with that. Basic information on what the character does in a game is fine imo. but if readers wish to seek out more context and mechanical information they should seek out to that page instead. In other words, pre-information should be a thing before a reader goes to another page. Information shouldn't be removed because one user deems it as "unnecessary" (if something is unrelated is another situation). A character making their debut (regardless if it's from scouting or just making their first NPC appearance IS important) and just simply saying "this character exists" on a page isn't very explanatory and is otherwise unhelpful and uninteresting to most readers to the point they will unlikely go to those pages. TrainerSplash (talk) 01:35, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Well I guess I should add "missing information" to the page, so someone can eventually upload the image.

Listen, I'm a guy who likes consistency. There are 154 characters in Masters, and there are only like 3 characters who have slightly more information about them in their Masters section. So to be consistent, I removed the information that wasn't on the other characters' pages and kept/added stuff that was on everyone's pages. I added the list of the character's sync pairs to the base character articles to make them "pop" more, and I think they are doing a good job making the Masters section more noticeable. I still wouldn't consider a character's debut and when they were first scoutable noteworthy, or anything that would make a reader go "Oh boy, I want to read more about them on their Masters' page". Chances are, if they are reading about them in the Masters EX section, they are already interested enough to click on the Masters page. I think the only thing that should be added to the page, is a list of the outfits they wear and the Pokémon they use, which the Sync Pairs list already provides. The only thing that should be added is something that is 100% notable from Masters. For example, Masters reveals that Hilbert wasn't in B2W2 because he was searching for N, or that Red was indirectly responsible for the creation of the Pokémon Masters League because he defeated Lear before the events of the game. TBR2001 (talk) 03:25, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm seconding Splash here. When I first started adding story appearances to Masters pages, Lillie's was the only page that had it; that doesn't make the information unnecessary. It just means it needs to be added to all the other pages. Bulbapedia is forever a work in progress, so it's OK for pages to be slightly inconsistent because information isn't being added to all the character pages at the same time.

Also, it's OK if pages are slightly redundant. I just finished updating the list of items in Masters page with Trainer Lodge items - previously it linked to the Trainer Lodge page because all Trainer Lodge items were included on that page, but now there's a centralized list of all the Trainer Lodge items and how to obtain each one. A lot of the information is duplicated between those pages, but that's OK because the information is being presented in different ways. Similarly, I think it'd be a good idea to have the character pages mention things like when a character debuted in Masters and how often they've appeared in the main story and/or events, since that could help readers get an idea of how significant the character's role is in Masters without having to skim through their whole (heavily mechanic-focused) article. Storm Aurora (talk) 04:59, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi, it seems Storm and Splash preferred the extra tidbit of info, but it looks like you still cut it down a bit? I feel like it might have been nice to discuss the changes first. Maybe we can find a compromise that adds the useful info that Storm and Splash liked while keeping it concise, if that's what you're wanting? I think it'd be more amicable if the changes were discussed and agreed upon instead of there being this back and forth adding and removing things. Does that seem fair? Landfish7 05:36, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

I think the only thing that should be notable is when they become playable. Elio, Selene, and Lillie were basically available since their corresponding event came out, so I think the date is the only thing that really matters. Plus (from what I've seen) not every character has a corresponding event for when they came out. Every character has appeared in an event, so it would be pointless to keep mentioning that this character appeared in X events, or listing off all the events they appeared in, as it would inflate the page bigger than necessary. Plus, (eventually) all the characters' story appearances will appear on their Masters pages. So I decided to only keep stuff related to the main story, so the PML Arc and Villian Arc, as that is where most players would find them. It is not like we learned anything interesting about Elio and Selene (or at least something that the reader MUST know), like the game revealing what Hilbert was doing in B2W2, or that Red indirectly created the Pokémon Masters League. We still don't even know, who the protagonist of the Alola games is. I decided to mention that Lillie's Lunala evolved from a Cosmog that she received from a Trainer who owns Nebby, as that is notable. I don't think mentioning all the Villain Arc Chapters they appear in is necessary, just saying that they appeared in the main story and which arc they were in, is fine enough, at least in my opinion. TBR2001 (talk) 08:05, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Who said all that extra information on characters being the protagonists was needed (nobody even added that information, let alone said they wanted it). All I that I was adding was

• The time a character first appeared in event
• the first time a character became scoutable
• notable important events they had the games major modes

Not only have you been messing with the information (that isn’t even on the masters pages for some characters), in which both Aurora and I have said is okay to be on multiple pages, you have been removing, changing and rewording my hard work simply for the sake of it.

why is overlap on multiple pages an issue? Why does it have to be worded so specific? Lillie owning a Lunala is already on Nebby’s page, if you don’t like overlap why mention that? Especially with something that isn’t relevant to that character. This is incredibly frustrating that you’re adding and removing the information you want, but the information I want gets pushed aside and reworded to fit your standards. I worked hard on Selene and Lillie’s pages, and you keep messing with them. You can add any of the information you want to the Masters sections, that’s fine. Please do not change mine because you don’t like it, multiple users seem to be okay with it and it’s not hurting anyone. If it’s actually bugging you, I’d rather we actually talk about it then having you keep making decisions on your own.TrainerSplash (talk) 15:24, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Lets see here.

• I removed it because I don't think it is important information to tell which event a character first appeared in.
• Still on the page.
• Still there, just limited to just the story mode. Only removed the mention of the Champion Stadium on Lillie's page.

Wow, I ruined all your hard work, huh? This entire pointless argument started because I only removed one sentence on Elio's and Selene's page. I removed "Elio made his first debute in the Trials on the Isle story event on April 15th, 2021 and being scoutable with Popplio on the same day" and eventually turned it to "Elio became a playable sync pair on April 17, 2021." It's not like I rewrote an entire paragraph or, deleted an entire section of the page. I only keep editing it to be consistent with the other pages, (which I haven't even finished editing because you started complaining about these small edits I did), I didn't edit them out of spite. I'm not petty like you probably are. I listened, started to put dates when the sync pairs became available, and stated when a character had a role in the story mode on other characters' pages.

The Overlap is not really the issue here. I'm just trying to be consistent, and I was just explaining that removing the event the character first appeared in, wouldn't be lost information, as it can still be found. The reason I worded it so specifically is because that's how the other pages are worded. I looked through most of the pages and picked the wording that was used the most often. Then when editing the Sync Pair dex in the Masters section, I used it as a chance to edit it to be consistent with the majority of the other pages. It would be jarring if only three pages were worded differently. Reading your response about Lillie's Lunala edit, tells me you didn't really understand why I put it in there. I added it in so readers who are just causally reading it wouldn't think that Lunala is Nebby in Masters. (which some people still argue about) That's why I added "Lillie mentions that her Lunala evolved from a Cosmog that she received from the Trainer whom she entrusted Nebby with" It tells you that Lunala isn't Nebby, Lillie got her Lunala from the protagonist of the Alola games (which we still don't know 100% who it is yet), Nebby still exists in the Masters continuity, and how it ties in with the original games she came from. Also, how am I messing with your pages? All I'm doing is small edits, and you are making a big fuss over it. I have done this with over 32 character pages so far, and you are the only one to complain about the edit I did. If anyone said anything earlier, I would have heard them out. It took you 4 days to tell me that you had a problem with the edit I made. Granted when I deleted that sentence, I didn't give any explanation, so that was on me, but you simply undid it and I gave a tired response saying it was "unnecessary" for the information to be there. I simply just don't see it as an important detail that needs to stay, that is all. I'm sorry I'm bothering you with this dumb little edit, but like you said, it’s not hurting anyone for it being gone. TBR2001 (talk) 09:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

You're still not being very productive with this conversation, For the sake of things, I'm just going to start over, I'm asking if there's a way we can settle on an agreement on what the section should look like. There's things I want on there that others have agreed to. What's the issue with the information being there? Is there somethign else you would prefer instead? TrainerSplash (talk) 06:10, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Well what do you want on there? I added the events the characters first debuted in when they appear first as NPC (when I'm 100% they weren't playable before). This is why I added back the mention of Elio first appearing in the story event Trials on the Isle, but not for Selene as she debut the same day as the event came out. I also don't mind any pictures in the Masters section, I only moved the one from the Masters Trailer as that was a screenshot from an animated trailer, not from the game. I still don't think adding something like "They have also appeared in several events" or "they appeared [list of different types of events]" as almost every character has appeared in an event, that makes the former redundant and not really notable, and the latter option would make it unnecessarily too long for some characters, and pointless as a list will show you all the events they have appeared in when you click on their Masters Pages. The only thing notable TO ME is if they appear in one of the main stories from the game.

As for what I want the Masters section to generally look like, here:

[character] forms a sync pair with [list of Pokémon] in Pokémon Masters EX. [His/Her] [Pokémon] is capable of [transformation]. [character] became a playable sync pair on [date].

[character] first appeared as an NPC during the [type of event/chapter] [event name/Arc]. [He/She] has also made notable appearances in the game's Main Stories, [list of Arcs]. In this game, [character] *insert a notable thing that this game provides*

This tells the reader

• The Pokémon the character has in the game
• If the Pokémon is capable of transforming
• When they became playable
• If they appeared in the game before they became playable
• If they had a role in the main story of the game
• If the game introduced any notable lore to this version of the character

If you want to add anything that's fine, but I think this is fine the way it is TBR2001 (talk) 05:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I kept all the information you wanted, while retaining information that I wanted there. Despite you suggesting "if you want to add anything that's fine", there's clearly a problem with what I'm writing, and you're reverting changes without a description. What is the problem here? I'm trying to merge our edits and get what we both want and being cooperative, and you're still unproductive about it. Can you please tell me what the problem is? This is becoming an actual edit war on multiple pages and I feel like I'm being incredibly nice here. What is the solution you have if mine doesn't work? TrainerSplash (talk) 05:55, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

How are you being nice here? You just reverted it to how you wanted it before, when I made it clear before on what the structure I wanted it to look like. I kept most of the information you wanted, but apparently, you just want it back to the way it was before. The only reason I reverted your edit is because it wasn't consistent with the other pages' Masters section. If you want an example of what the Masters section typically looks like, then click on these pages Red (Game), Giovanni, Cyrus, Lyra (Game), Rei (game), and Akari (game) and go to the Masters EX section of the page for examples of how the pages typically look and read like.

Your edit
Elio made his first debute in the Trials on the Isle story event on April 15th, 2021 and being scoutable with Popplio on the same day.

Selene made her first debute in the Trials on the Isle story event on April 15th, 2021 and became scoutable with Rowlet on the same day

Lillie appears in Pokémon Masters EX, forming a sync pair alongside Clefairy. Lillie first made her debut in the Family Ties story event. She was first scoutable with Clefairy on September 17, 2020. She can also form additional sync pairs with Comfey, Ribombee, Lunala, and Antique Form Polteageist. Her Lunala is mentioned to have evolved from a Cosmog that she received from the Trainer whom she entrusted Nebby with.
Lillie makes notable appearances in the Alola, Sinnoh and Kanto Villain Arcs of the Main Story, as well as in the Victory Road plot in the Champion Stadium game mode.

My edit
Elio became a playable sync pair on April 17, 2021.
Elio first appeared as an NPC during the story event Trials on the Isle.

Selene became a playable sync pair on April 15, 2021.

Lillie forms a sync pair with Clefairy, Ribombee, Lunala, Antique Form Polteageist, and Comfey in Pokémon Masters EX. Lillie became a playable sync pair on September 17, 2020
Lillie first appeared as an NPC during the story event Family Ties. She has also made notable appearances in one of the game's Main Stories, the Villain Arc. In this game, Lillie mentions that her Lunala evolved from a Cosmog that she received from the Trainer whom she entrusted Nebby with.

The reason I changed it
Elio: It was fine the way it was before, there was no reason for you to reword it to the way you wanted it. Plus, mentioning that Elio with Popplio was scoutable on the same day is wrong, as Elio came out two days after the event began.

Selene: The reason I reverted this one is because she came out the same day as the event did. I don't think it needs to be mentioned, unlike with Elio who wasn't playable for two whole days.

Lillie: Why did you feel the need to reword the first sentence? There was no reason to. You just made the first part more bloated than it needs to be. There is also no reason to list all chapters of the Villain Arc when just saying they were in the Villain Arc is fine enough. I don't think mentioning Lillie's role in the Victory Road plot of the Champion Stadium is notable, as it has almost nothing to do with the actual story of the main game.

When I said "If you want to add anything that's fine" I meant add on to the section, not completely rewrite it to how you want it. If you want to add the date when the characters first appeared as NPC, so readers know how long they were NPC for, go for it, but otherwise I think it is fine the way it is. TBR2001 (talk) 04:48, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

So why is fair for you to have what you want and not what I want? I've merged our edits. especially since you're just straight up deleting information. I've spoken to multiple people both in and on the site who were fine with the information we both have. You're having a problem with because it's the way I want it sure. But I don't think it's fair of you to make such a claim when you're doing the exact same thing. I don't really enjoy the attitude I'm getting from this discussion, when I'm trying to figure out a consensus here, this isn't about what I want (I can care less as long as we can come to a conclusion), but rather it seems like you're just trying to get what you want. I don't understand the conflict here. If you think I'm being too aggressive with how I handle these pages, that's completely understandable and I'll try my best to "puppy guard" it less, but my biggest problem here is that you're just deleting information because you don't deem it as necessary, and then add even more information (in some situations) because you personally think it's more necessary. I've combined our edits what we both think is necessary and unnecessary.

"how are you being nice here?" This is already beginning show your rudeness with your behavior. I've only been reverting edits you've reverted yourself. I removed one thing by accident which was on May's page. I shouldn't have done that. You idea of consistency is fine, and I consistently edit these pages myself, but I've been editing the masters sections long before you have (not that my way is better) and I don't think it's necessarily fair of you to say your way is best, I've simply been editing the character pages the way I've always have and to see the work I have be completely removed because you don't like it is incredibly rude and unfair. TrainerSplash (talk) 07:12, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

(resetting indent)If anyone has a problem with another user's conduct, it's best to bring it up to a staff member. Throwing accusations of rudeness directly in someone's face is never gonna endear you to them.

TBR2001: holding up pages as examples of "they don't have this" is not a reason that no page should have it. (It might hint at something, but all by itself, that is no "reason".) If you think many other pages are right, then explain what the difference actually is.

TrainerSplash: "other people agreed with me" isn't much of a reason either. People will disagree. We just try to reach a consensus.

I can't really keep track of more than one issue in all this. Since the most recent issue seems to involve an animated trailer (Gladion, Lillie, Lusamine): I think a character's base page should probably touch on any media they appear in, even if some appearance can equally be attributed to a specific incarnation. The biggest possible counterexample I can imagine is Red (game)/Ash Ketchum, but I think there's two things there: 1) Ash isn't just "Red" in a different canon, he's a whole reimagining (based on, but not the same), and 2) Ash has a *lot*. I'm open to hearing about any pages where you think this would be a problem, but I think the main line for sequestering some media to only the page for a specific incarnation would just be if the page is getting too large.

If there are other issues, I'd be happy to hear about them, one at a time if possible. (I.e., not "X. And Y. And Z." But "X.", and we try to address that; then "And Y"... I'm not gonna slap anyone if it does get messy, I'm just hoping to keep it easy to manage for myself. ^^; ) Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:45, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Well I'm trying to move the most recent issue to User talk:TrainerSplash. I'm just waiting for a response. But the main thing for me is consistency. 38/42 characters that appeared in the Masters' trailer don't mention their appearance in the trailer, rather they mentioned it only on their Masters' page. Only Gladion, Lillie, Lusamine, and Hugh had this information on both of their pages, so I removed them to be consistent. I assumed this was done to prevent the original pages from becoming a little bloated, so someone must've removed it and left it only on the Master's pages. I personally see it in a similar way to how the Masters 8 characters were handled when they appeared in Pokémon Mezastar. For example, Cynthia appeared in Pokémon Mezastar, but it was only mentioned on her anime page, not her main page, as Pokémon Mezastar used the anime version of Cynthia as a base, not her original version from the core series games. Similarly, Cynthia is from the Masters game, not the core series, which is why I assumed the trailer is only on her Masters page, not her main page. TBR2001 (talk) 22:53, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Again, consistency is a weak reason. Things change. You can't always just say "It's not on everything, no", that's just an excuse to never change anything. Putting appearances on a base character page is reasonable. Please let them be in the future. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:33, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Putting appearances on a base character page is reasonable, to a point. Having "Gotcha" on the main page is reasonable, but having the "Pokémon Masters Animated Trailer" on the main page when there is a page specifically for Masters-related stuff to prevent the main page from being too long and cluttered, doesn't seem reasonable to me. By your logic, why aren't Dawn's manga appearances from Pocket Monsters Diamond & Pearl and the Movie adaptations not mentioned on Dawn's main page? If someone put this information on Dawn's main page, and a different person removed it and said "This is based on the anime version of Dawn, not based on the game version of Dawn, she has her own page for a reason", would they be in the right? If someone else removed Brock's manga appearances from The Electric Tale of Pikachu, Ash & Pikachu, Magical Pokémon Journey, and the Movie adaptations from his main page and said "This is based on the anime version of Brock, not based on the game version of Brock, it should only be mentioned on his anime page" would they be in the wrong? There has to be a consensus on these types of things, otherwise, other people will argue about what they think is the "correct" way things should be handle. Does everything count and need to be mentioned on one page? Or when it is possible, certain information should only be on certain pages to prevent the main page from becoming too long and cluttered, like anime-related stuff should only be on the anime page, Adventures-related stuff should only be on the Adventures page, and Masters-related stuff should only be on the Masters page. From what I've seen, it looks like the latter is how most of this Wiki operates. Right now there is a discussion about splitting Ash's main page into multiple pages by media because his main page is getting too long. I personally think it makes the base page less cluttered, and less awkward to fit the the Masters' trailer on the main page. Like on Hugh's page, it was just sticking out really badly with a lot of empty space, and there isn't much to say there besides "Hugh briefly appeared in the Pokémon Masters Animated Trailer as part of a team with Silver and Wally." It looks better on Hugh (Masters) page than it did on the main page. Plus when you click on the character's name on the Pokémon Masters Animated Trailer page, it takes you to their Masters pages, not their main page. TBR2001 (talk) 06:51, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi.

Instead of repeatedly removing info and using the undo button, I would please ask that you consider discussing changes on the talk page or on the talk page of the relevant user. Thank you. Landfish7 20:11, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

I just did it before I even read this TBR2001 (talk) 20:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Just remember it's generally a good idea to discuss first and reach an agreement before making changes, that way what's agreed upon is more pleasant for everyone. Landfish7 20:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)