Talk:Super-ancient Pokémon

I Calls 'Em The Geo Trio

I call these guys the Geographical Trio, or Geo Trio for short, because they rule the environment, namely oceans, landforms, and the sky.TorchicBlaziken ^(talk) 00:40, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

What does this have to do with the Trio?--☆Coolピカチュウ! 01:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

In reality, I was actually thinking of moving another one of the trios' pages from a name I gave them to another, better one. That'd be the lake trio, to legendary pixies. That'd fit better with the other three. TTEchidna 02:49, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Trio or not?

Is this group really a legendary trio? They don't really fit in with the norms from the other trios. As it says on Rayquaza's trivia:

Rayquaza is the only trio master that is actually a member of its own trio.
Out of the weather trio, it is the only one of the trio with a secondary type.

Then in the text of this page, it says:

This is the only legendary trio whose members do not all have the same base stat total; Groudon and Kyogre share a total of 670, while Rayquaza's is 680. This fits with its role as a mediator between Groudon and Kyogre.

This shows major differences in the things that normal define a trio. --エルレイド 04:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, Rayquaza is a "guardian" like Lugia and Ho-oh (note the flying type and 680BST btw). With this I mean that it acts intelligent, whereas Groundon and Kyogre simply go on rampage when awakened. One could also find connections between Groudon, Kyogre and Regigigas, the other 670 legend, which is also sealed away in a hybernating state. But the Weather trio is a weather duo with their guardian. Especially considering that Rayquaza is superior to them in more ways: -a secondary type -red, black plus yellow patterns on it's body -680BST instead of 670 -it's ability deactivates the duos abilities instead of creating it's own weather --Saiph charon 09:18, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Can Anyone?

put rayquaza in the middle, cause it seems more poetic? also, since it is the strongest, and has two types, and is the mediator, the middle seems the best. i'd do it myself, but i don't know how... - unsigned comment from Empath-Silvio (talk • contribs)

Sorry, it's 'dex order. Rayquaza is the master, it comes after them --electAbuzzzz 20:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

OK Empath-Silvio 23:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

If that's so, Kyogre should be first. - Chosen of Mana - 13:59, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. —darklordtrom 06:37, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Back patterns

Shouldn't the patterns shown pre-battle be included in this article? - unsigned comment from Giratina's Embodiment (talk • contribs) 21:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Theme

The article refers to them as the 'weather trio' when this isn't strictly correct. Rayquaza neutralizes weather whilst the other two wreck havoc. Isn't it more of a reference to earth, sea and sky. Just a thought. --Hyurnat4 05:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess neutralizing weather counts as affecting the weather too. :P As for earth, sea, and sky... "Elements trio" doesn't sound half bad to me, but I don't see why we really would need to change it. ZestyCactus 05:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The Weather Trio Movesets and HGSS

I edited the Similar movesets section to reflect the differences in HGSS. However, since the changes are so vast, I purpose a change in the listing:

Lv.	Kyogre  Water		Groudon  Ground		Rayquaza  Dragon  Flying
Version	DPPt	HGSS	DPPt	HGSS	DPPt	HGSS
Start	Water Pulse		Mud Shot		Twister
5	Scary Face
15	AncientPower	Body Slam	AncientPower	Lava Plume	AncientPower	Crunch

And so on...

Thoughts? Chosen of Mana - 16:39, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I think seperate columns would be nice since it's extremely difficult to look at as-is.. problem is, what would we do for the moves that the entire trio learns in one version and not in the other (ie: rest... Kyogre doesn't appear to get Rest in HGSS)? List it normally, or somehow figure out something for the multi-cell spanning? →Tinā ^♫★ 16:55, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Not exactly sure what you are talking about Tinrar, but at lv. 50, the row will look similar to the level 15 row seen above, as for Lv. 30:

30

Calm Mind

Aqua Ring

Bulk Up

Rest

Dragon Dance

Rest

Like this. - unsigned comment from Chosen (talk • contribs)

Good job. Big improvement. —darklordtrom 06:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

References

They can't be references to all of the three different references stated. I think we should leave only one, but I find them all a little farfetched. The similarities between them and the mytholigical monsters are generic, the Godzilla one is just stupid, and the spheres seem too distant to be a reference to. It's just my opinion. --Reversinator 22:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

What about Deoxys?

Isn't pair with Rayquaza and considered its enemy? --☯ *Ɣℯ№ӎօṫհ* ☯ 15:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

That is in the movie, not in the games, and even in the movie they aren't enemies per say, just a Rayquaza defending the Ozone. As far as I know, they aren't even mentioned at the same time in any of the games, so the answer is no. Oh BTW, this would be better on Rayquaza or Deoxys's talk page, because it has nothing to do with the Weather Trio –– WaterUser _{(page, talk)} 15:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Groudon and Kyogre can fly?

In Emerald version, right after Rayquaza causes Kyogre and Groudon to leave Sootopolis City, if you talk to Archie he says, "Kyogre and Groudon both flew off to who knows where." Does he mean that they just fled, or literally flew away? --"FiMbUlWiNtEr2O|2" 01:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I think it just means they fled. If you run from them while battling them, the game say "Kyogre/Groudon flew away!" in Emerald, like it does for all of the legendary Pokémon (well, other than roaming ones). --SnorlaxMonster 01:40, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Moveset Comparison

I don't know a thing about coding templates, but looking at the page I was thinking it'd be really nice if comparisons between the movesets in past generations/games were also included somehow—either by modifying the template to allow it to shift between generations, or by including past-gen moveset comparisons on a separate page. Would either of those be doable? Or is it just not worth the effort? —Andy^P_K^M_N (talk) 20:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Geographical duo

What about Geographical duo? SaturnMario, his talk and his contributions 22:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Super-ancient Pokémon

Has the term "super-ancient Pokémon" ever been used in a way that includes Rayquaza, or is it always just Kyogre and Groudon? --SnorlaxMonster 17:00, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

The Super Music Collection for RS calls the trio's battle theme "Battle! (Super-Ancient Pokémon)". However, only Rayquaza's theme in ORAS is called "Battle! (Super-Ancient Pokémon)", since Kyogre and Groudon have "Battle! (Primal Reversion)". Pikachu Bros. (talk) 17:06, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

I would be for moving this page to Super-Ancient Pokémon. There's no reason to use a fan-term for the group when an canonical one exists.

ᗧ•••ᗣ Pacack

15:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Move it. Consistency with other official terms such as 'legendary titans'. Lmoamemesxd (talk) 02:04, 21 July 2016 (UTC) Necrobumped; however, "Please discuss whether or not to move it on its talk page." --Lmoamemesxd (talk) 02:08, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I still stand by the idea that we should move it. Paᗧ•••ᗣck 02:49, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

So, it's been almost six months since this was last discussed, and there still hasn't been a conclusion reached. Imo it should be moved - if we have the regis as Legendary titans, an official term, there's not much reason we should still use a fan name for a group that has an official name, even if the fan name has existed for ten plus years and the official term isn't even three years old. --Celadonkey 17:28, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Please do understand that moves, merges, and other such proposals are decided on by the Editorial Board. No one should not take it upon themselves to fulfill or reject these without their approval.

In the meantime, you're welcome to discuss, of course. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:49, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I understand that. Have the mods discussed it? --Celadonkey 19:22, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I think that it should be the opposite. The 'Super-Ancient Pokemon' should be moved to the weather trio page. This will be much more sufficient. Eeveelutionred (talk) 02:32, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Well, considering that that's where the page already is, that doesn't really change anything.

I still think we should move the page to "super-ancient Pokémon" - we should strive to have the most accurate page titles, and we should not have fan names as the titles for the page when an official name exists, especially when we have done so for pages like the Legendary Titans. --Celadonkey 11:10, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Saying that this page is waiting Editorial Board approval to be moved is funny when you take into consideration the fact that Ataro, a member of the Editorial Board, has created the page super-ancient Pokémon (Adventures). This page has to be moved, not only because we're talking about official terminology, but for consistency sake as well. --Mikuri 12:29, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Good catch. However, I'd feel safer checking with the staff. --Celadonkey 12:38, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Primal Groudon STAB?

In the move comparison section Fire-type moves are not indicated to be STAB despite Primal Groudon getting STAB. Should this be rectified or has it intentionally been left unbolded? --Terry152 (Talk) 08:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Renaming The weather trio page

Should the page be named Super-ancient Pokémon now as it the official name like Legendary Titans for example? It makes more sense as there is an official term for the legendary trio? --Jacob Kogan (talk) 20:29, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree. There are official sources that refer to these three Pokémon as the "Super-Ancient Pokémon". - Taylor (talk) 19:51, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Re: Super-ancient Pokémon

I deeply, deeply believe that this page should be moved to Super-ancient Pokémon. The name has been used to refer to all three members of the trio (see above) and no others, the actual content of the page uses the term Super-ancient Pokémon, and the comics page for the trio is named “Super-ancient Pokémon” as well. Super-ancient Pokémon is an official term whereas Weather trio is not. I think it’s time for the page to be moved. --Celadonkey 16:27, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Kinda like how the regi trio was renamed to Legendary Titans correct?--Jacob Kogan (talk) 17:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Exactly.

IMO, and I'm pretty sure in the opinions of Bulbapedia as well, official terms trump fan terms no matter what. I see zero reason not to move this page. --Celadonkey 17:37, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I would be in favor of the move; given there was no name given at all for trio for a long time now. I also notice that someone at some point changed the a lot of the text on the page to refer to them as the Super-ancient Pokémon despite the page itself not being moved yet. On the other hand, I can understand why they are still listed as the Weather trio due to all three of them controlling weather to some degree. In the end, we still need to wait for admin approval first before the page is moved at all. Frozen Fennec 22:45, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Bringing this up again... this needs to be moved. The page already calls it "Super-ancient Pokemon", the title of the article should too. --celadonk (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Seconding the need to rename this page ASAP. --Bulbafan (talk) 19:20, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Thirding, a year on. I don't see any reason to keep this name. --Bulbafan (talk) 04:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

The initial request to change the name happened in January of 2015. How has this been put off for over five years? DrPumpkinz (talk) 02:04, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Can you please delete the redirect from "Super-ancient Pokémon" so I can move this page? --SaturnMario, his talk and his contributions 01:15, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Guardians?

Where does the info about them being guardians of the sea, land, etc. come from? I can't find any official references to it; it seems to be fanon. Groudon and Kyogre spend their time in deep slumber until awakened by Team Magma/Aqua. And once awoke, they try to expand their dominion without regards for their actions' catastrophic effects on the world and its inhabitants. I don't see how they could possibly be considered guardians. Golden Trainer (talk) 09:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC)