Talk:Chespin (Pokémon)

It is so far the only Grass type Pokemon starter not based on a reptile. Chomper4 (talk) 13:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Feel more comfortable saying, "based on a mammal" rather than "not based on a reptile" (Oshawott had it worded that way, though that might be different :/ ). Guess that classification between dinosaurs, birds, lizards thing mixes up what classifies as a "reptile" for me. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 23:03, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Though the grass starter Bulbasaur is partly reptilian in design, it also shares much in common with amphibians such as frogs and toads, also, its animé Pokédex entry from episode 10 of the original series states that: "Researchers are unsure whether to classify Bulbasaur as a plant or animal.". This means that NateVirus is correct, and it should only be stated that Chespin is the only Grass starter to be mammalian, and not the only Grass type starter not to be based on a reptile.--ShinyPatch (talk) 14:01, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Name Origin

In the Name Origin section of the page Chespin is called "Chestpin" which I think is an error. I can't correct it because the page is protected. Water Max (talk) 16:02, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I think his name may be based on a porcupine too. Chestnut and porcupine. It may even look like a porcupine. Milde (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

It could be based on Chestnut and Spin, which is related to Sonic the Hedgehog, since all of the other languages have something related to hedgehogs. No? Dragonace (talk) 20:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I think Milde was right, is a porcupine (Spanish "puercoeSPIN") like the Kanto legendary birds ends with a spanish word. --EricZangano (talk) 06:21, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with that. Since hedgehogs and porcupines are quite similar it wouldn't be surprising if its name was based on Chestnut and Puercoespín (Spanish for 'Porcupine'), they've used Spanish words for English names before so it wouldn't be that weird that they do that in this case. KyseL (talk) 23:52, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

"Chespin" is also an anagram of the word "pinches." A rubbish anagram of it, but an anagram nonetheless. I'm aware that this particular nugget might currently be too banal even for an internet wiki, but if we ever find out it evolves into something called Chessnat, then hey - looks like I've got anagram corner covered. Especially since it does look a little bit like a chestnut. With a squirrel inside. Do all chestnuts have that? Constantmotion (talk) 02:29, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Japanese: From hedgehog and chestnut
French: From hedgehog and chestnut
German: From hedgehog and chestnut
English: From chestnut and pin?

??? --Pen BlooeR 04:24, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

This is the main reason I think it might be an anagram! Usually I'd not say anything, given what a long shot that is, but there's got to be something clever going on with that name, it can't be from "pin," why would it be from "pin?" "Pinches" is the only other word I see in there. Pine, maybe, but chestnuts and pines are two different things. Although, maybe it's "Pin" as in "Porcupine?" With the E removed for consistency later in the evolution line. I don't know. I think Chespin's going to make a lot more sense when we see his brothers. Constantmotion (talk) 09:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

I still think porcupine makes more sense than urchin. Isn't urchin a sea thing? --Pen BlooeR 17:12, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I think they removed the "e" just for sound reasons. As other names are from hedgehog, the English one is from porcupine, but "Chestpine" wasn't good enough, so they removed the "e", since the sound is still the same. Tano User talk:Tano 18:26, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

What about about chestnut and spine? That fits with the other languages' hedgehog theme. - signed comment from GoldenCelebi (pedia talk • news talk • archives talk) 15:07, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Another name for hedgehog is urchin. It's got that "in" at the end. That's all I got. Edit: Apparently that infos already been added, oh well.Scarabola (talk) 15:16, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

I think that porcupines and hedgehogs are similar enough to allow the English origin to fit the other languages just with chestnut + porcupine. However pin is fine too, since it has something to do with porcupines and hedgehogs. --Tano (talk) 16:01, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

I think that Chespin's English name may be partially based on French like the Japanese name. A lot of French words end with 'in' (fin, butin, déclin, jardin, coussin, escarpin and hundreds more). Also, the French word for rabbit is 'lapin' while one possible name for a male rabbit (and hare) is 'bouquin' Chespin certainly appears to be based off rodents, which hedgehogs, contrary to rabbits and porcupines, are not. I've also heard rumors that Chespin's evolution is called 'Chespinne' which would be the natural French feminine form of 'Chespin', like a female rabbit is 'lapine' and a female lion is 'lionne' (the male form being 'lion'). There's just something about Chespin's name that seems to have a French air to it, and it would be easily pronounceable in French though the pronunciation would differ greatly from the English one. And the fact that Fennekin also has that very French-y suffix 'in' seems to confirm the speculation that the new region draws inspiration from France, at least partially. Maybe it should be added in the article that the French word 'marron' does not only mean 'chestnut' but also 'brown', the name including all shades of brown and not a particular shade like the English word 'maroon'. This could be a possible double entendre as Chespin is both brown and based on a chestnut. Though this may be reaching too far out, the primary meaning of 'urchin' in English is 'a young boy who is poorly or raggedly dressed' or 'a street boy' which would translate into 'gallopin' in French, according to google translate. 'Gallopin' is a slight pejorativ for a young, playful (street) boy like the English 'lout' or 'guttersnipe'. Another French word for the same concept is 'gamin. In my opinion, Chespin could in fact look a little like a playful and teasing male pokémon. Though there's likely no truth in this, Game Freak could have intended to play with the idea of the name that mischievous young boys share with hedgehogs: urchin. And Chespin could be the embodiment of this. - unsigned comment from Fredhigh (talk • contribs)

Gender ratio

Are we sure that's the gender ratio? We're not assuming it has Overgrow... --Abcboy (talk) 21:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Numbering

Following numbering tradition, can we assume that for now it's 650? --M.vit (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

No, because Snivy isn't 494, Victini is. We can't make any assumptions. --Purimpopoie (talk) 23:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Plus for all we know they might change up the order. Doubt it but who knows until they actually reveal officially. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 00:43, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree. They might change the Pokedex numbering, like they did with Black and White route numbering. I think we should just play it safe, and wait until they officially announce it. User:PokemonSeaandSky

Pokédex

Under Regional Pokédex numbers, why does it say Not in any regional Pokédex instead of unknown Pokédex since it has to be in a Pokédex and it is too early to put that it was not in one? Patty Man 23:30, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Design Origin

Shouldn't we add that it appears to be based on a chestnut and possibly a porcupine or hedgehog? --CoolDudeAl (talk) 01:30, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, it should also be trivia'd that it is the first grass starter not based off of a reptile. Chomper4 (talk) 03:04, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Or at least the first grass starter based off of a mammal. Weren't Bulbasaur and Chikorita based more on an amphibian and a sauropod respectively? Thought amphibians and sauropods were separate from reptiles. :/ need to brush up on my zoology ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 22:23, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

You're right, we know that dinosaurs are more similar to birds than to reptiles (they're not birds however), but if I remember correctly, in 90's that was still unclear. Well, Chespin is absolutely the first mammal-based Grass starter, unless it doesn't change in one of it's evolutions. Tano User talk:Tano 18:26, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I have to correct myself and NateVirus here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur -> "Rather, they represent a separate group of reptiles with a distinct upright posture". So dinosaurs are indeed reptiles, and so Bulbasaur and Chikorita are based on reptiles. Birds evolved from theropoda, a group of dinosaurs (still reptiles). I also asked a biologist friend of mine and he confirmed, making it sound pretty obvious. Tano User talk:Tano 18:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

So, yes, every single Grass-type starter was based on reptiles, as Bulbasaur is a Dicynodontia (a taxon of anomodont therapsids or mammal-like reptiles), and Chikorita (or rather Meganium) is a Brontosaurus, and both are reptiles. The others are a gecko, a turtle and a snake. Tano User talk:Tano 18:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

It's enough to simply say it's the first based on a mammal, rather than the first non-reptile. Like how Piplup is noted to be the first bird Water starter, and Oshawott the first mammal Water starter. It's a little redundant to note that Chespin is both the first mammal and the first non-reptile. Crystal Talian 04:09, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

They're both trivia of the same importance in my opinion. It's pointed out that before Chespin every other grass starter was based on a reptile. That's an information you can't grasp just by reading that Chespin is the first mammal. What are the others? birds and reptiles? No, they were all reptiles before Chespin, which is also the first mammal. It simply gives more (correct) informations. --Tano (talk) 16:06, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Still, it is probably simpler to stick with the "first mammal" bit. Plus, like Crystal Talian stated, Piplup was noted as the first water starter to be based on a bird, never any note of not being a reptile. Same with Oshawott who really was the second water starter to be not based on a reptile. Plus, saying Chespin is the first grass starter to be based off of a mammal isn't false, it is the first grass starter to be based on a mammal. Even if future Generations come out with other mammal-based Grass starters or even bird-based or just another reptile-based starter, Chespin is still the first one to be based off of a mammal. And on the note of sauropods and amphibians (the latter actually not being reptiles, which might bring up an unrelated question about Mudkip), the reason why I wasn't sure about the taxonomy is because of the different types of classifications and also because birds were once categorized as reptiles then somehow placed in their own class because of being warm-blooded (though I'm sure there is more to it than just than). Kinda confused me because dinosaurs are now considered warm-blooded and seem to have more in common with birds than reptiles in some groups, it is a number of "flip-flopping" in the sorting of these animals. And Bulbasaur, in some way drawing from its Japanese name, looks like a weird combination of different animals (not really sure what it is sometimes), with its pointed ears and its "frog-like" posture (well not always, I remember), I only thought it was a dinosaur because of its English name and that is a little deceiving (like Psyduck or Golduck). But I digress, let's just stick with the "first mammal" bit, it isn't going to hurt anybody. If people want to know about the others before it, there should be links to their pages. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 01:29, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Possible design origin. A chestnut inside a green chestnut shell. --Tano (talk) 21:35, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

I've seen that before, and that was my initial idea of its origin. Scarabola (talk) 02:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Can we add that the design is based on a chestnut now? I think it's pretty much confirmed now that we have the species name confirmed. CoolDudeAl (talk) 05:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Chestnut origin is confirmed and obvious due to the color, shell, and spines. I'm with the others in thinking that the origin section should say "porcupine or hedgehog". While most of his names reference hedgehogs, in Japanese and French the words for hedgehog can also be used to mean porcupine. Even by Pokemon standards of artistic license, Chespin looks very little like a hedgehog. The rodent-like body shape and incisors, tail thats more than a nub, in combination with the spines than can be bristled at will (admittedly a feature shared with hedgehogs) are very reminiscent of porcupines. He likely takes cues from both: they are both well-known, well-liked, prickly animals that can be combined with a chestnut motif to make for a good Pokemon, and the interchangeability of the names in many languages makes it easier on the translators for making portmanteaus or name puns. ~Destruction on Wings~ (talk) 06:15, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Well it should mention the chestnut origin and the hedgehog/porcupine origin. My point is right now it doesn't mention either. CoolDudeAl (talk) 18:55, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Was this whole section not started at the top of the page anyway?--ShinyPatch (talk) 14:11, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

What's your point? At this point I'm assuming no mod is actually checking the pages of these "old" X and Y Pokemon anymore, so I'll just wait till the page gets unlocked (presumably after the release of X and Y) and do it myself. CoolDudeAl (talk) 05:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Even without Mudkip, Piplup would NOT be the first non reptile water starter, I'm not kidding. I think it would me more informative that every grass starter before Chespin had a strong reptilian resemblence or some indication of being a reptile. Being the first mammal is not as informative if you don' know what the other starters were and, in my opinion, doesn't feel as notable since Cyndaquil has the same trait, and Cyndaquil is the first mammal starter period. Mudkip is the first water type amphibian starter and Oshawott is the first mammal water starter. Just listing that might as well mean the other starters were anything but mammals instead of a trend. (Jetison (talk) 00:25, 31 August 2013 (UTC))

"Was" vs. "were"

In the last sentence of the introduction, the word "were" should be replaced by "was" -- just a grammatical fix. EricDLee (talk) 02:12, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Language correction

Now my French isn't that great but marron is used to refer to the colour chestnut not the actual nut. châtaigne would be more accurate for the nut. Although Chespin would match the colour chestnut it might make good trivia. ~Elso133

I had definitely heard of marron used to refer to chestnuts and, according to Wikipedia, it specifically refers to ones of high quality.--Mister E 13 03:49, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Trivia

And what mammal is chespin based on? Why don't we just say "Chespin is the only grass type starter that is not based on a reptile"? Mesuxelf 19:30, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

From the names, it implies to be based in a hedgehog. And to be honest, we should not focus on trivia right now. There are a lot more important things to take care of at the time. Masatoshi_talk 20:29, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Turtwig is based on a turtle, which is an amphibian. Chespin is not the only grass starter that is not based on a reptile.--Istanbul (talk) 20:53, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Turtles are reptiles. -- MAG NE DETH 21:08, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Indeed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle "Turtles are reptiles of the order Chelonii" --Tano (talk) 21:37, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

It is probably just simpler to leave it the way it is. It isn't a false statement. Piplup did it, though surprisingly it can be argued that Mudkip should have that mentioned, but I don't think that is the focus. It is the first grass starter mammal, let's just leave it at that. Sidenote: As stated before me, turtles are definitely reptiles. Amphibians go through a metamorphosis, turtles never do that. Also, amphibians can breath through their skin, turtles don't. They may both be associated with water and may have somewhat similar appearances but they aren't the same. ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 01:45, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Birds are considered reptiles, even if Mudkip was a reptile the first non reptile water starter would be oshawott. (Jetison (talk) 23:55, 17 September 2013 (UTC)).

Birds are not considered reptiles. They are a separate class of animals distinct from both mammals and reptiles. Crystal Talian 00:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect, birds are under Archosauria, the same group as crocodiles, and theropoda, a subgroup of dinosaurs. Birds are reptiles. This information is relatively new and not widespread but I assure you ti is fact. It is true, however, that they do not follow the typical (antiquated) dictionary definition, and are only reptiles from a scientific standpoint. The entire reptile family had become so widespread that it is no longer specific, crocodiles aren't much closer to snakes than we are. In fact, the common dictionary definition of reptile directly conflicts with the dictionary definition of dinosaur, the entire group was named before we knew much about it. All of the new definitions are being rewritten because the group is so big you cannot include turtles, lizards, crocodiles, dinosaurs, and many of the other animals we consider reptiles as birds. (Jetison (talk) 20:09, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).

This discussion is long since over. Discussions with no replies are typically closed after six months, and the last reply on this one was nearly a year ago. That aside, this is a moot point now as we have been specifically given Chespin's origin. All of that aside, Archosauria still separates birds and crocodilians into distinct clades. It's still perfectly reasonably to consider them separately, particularly when scientific nomentclature is a constantly changing and adapting way of classification. Crystal Talian 05:03, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

My apologies for the necro. Not-so-recent studies have already proven birds lack any distinguishing or exclusive qualities to become entirely separate from reptiles (That is if one defines a dinosaur as a reptile), merely a lack of particular qualities. My point was never about Chespin's origin but the inaccurate information I saw. And yes the nomenclature is always changing, this is why the idea that birds are in any way separate from reptilia and the phylogenically-off term "reptiles" is outdated. They have far too much in common with later theropods to be considered a whole entire group on their own. The titles of bird and reptile date back to before we knew much about either creature at all, way back when frogs were considered reptiles because of their appearance. The term reptile is now starting to be equated to the scientific term reptilia for sake of convenience, as the original term was based on appearance and not science. If reptile=reptilia then birds are reptiles. If one actually considers then separate then they take a huge chunk of theropoda with them. (Jetison (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2014 (UTC)).

Artwork showing old version?

Am I the only one not seeing the correct artwork? The file page links to http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/46/Chespin.png but for me that shows the old screencap from the trailer (with the black background). Thumbnails show the regular art with white/transparent background. Same happens for Fennekin and Froakie. I've made sure to reload from the cache, and tried different browsers so it's definitely not that. DisgruntledGoat (talk) 23:54, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Wait. It takes a while for the artwork to be changed after it has been replaced on the Archives. Ataro (talk) 23:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, someone need to learn how to use their CDN properly ;) DisgruntledGoat (talk) 00:49, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

First not to be based on a mammal

Not very specific isn't it, Chespin is in fact the first grass type starte to not be based on a reptile Diamond Lanturn CodeName: 05308 12:42, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

The answer/reasoning is at the top of the talk page. Bulbasaur alone makes it difficult to positively conclude they are all, in fact, reptilian, so it's safer to assume "it is a mammal," instead of assuming "it isn't a reptile." Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:18, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Possible addition to name origin...

Espinas is the spanish word for "thorns" and could be part of the name origin for Chespin.

Also, another possibility, though a more unlikely one, is that the "che" from chespin also comes from Chevalier, the French word for knight. However, I wouldn't put it on there unless it's confirmed that he is based off of a knight. Pacack (talk) 23:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

egads, why did this duplicate? Pacack (talk)

It could be based on chesnut and pine,as in pineapple,or just pine.I mean its hair isss.......ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........pineaplly!--Shravs (Nuvema Gym) 15:38, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Multiple meanings are typically in the names, but I didn't even realize about pineapple xD Pacack (talk) 22:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Special abilities

Should be added that "When attacked, it can protect itself using its shell" and "The spikes on its head sharpen and harden when focusing power into them" in the Special Abilities section. ----samm :) (talk) 11:14, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Menu Sprite

Is someone able to rip Chespin's menu sprite from this screenshot? --Dialgafan1 (talk) 04:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Not until the game comes out. Ataro (talk) 06:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Korean name for Chespin

Until the page gets unlocked... here's Chespin's Korean name: 도치마론 Dochimaron -- Nick15 (talk) 02:52, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Took me a little bit, but here's what Dochimaron's name (most likely) comes from:

고슴도치 goseumdochi (蝟, hedgehog; specifically the 도치 dochi part of it)
침 chim (針, needle)
마론 maron (French for chestnut)

It's sort of a translation of its Japanese name. -- Nick15 (talk) 04:00, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

For the record...

For the record, Chespin's Kalos Pokedex number is probably #1, and it's national pokedex number is probbly #650. CrazyMagmar (talk) 23:22, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

We don't assume those things. Ataro (talk) 23:23, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Couldn't you do something like put the number you think it might be, put it in question marks like a Spanish question, and then put a thing at the top saying this is what it might be, but it's not certain. --Ziggyangelo88 (talk) 07:26, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

That would be speculation. It's better not to include information at all if it isn't definite. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 07:42, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit required- Pokédex classification

According to this, Chespin is the Spiny Nut Pokémon. The English site now has dex classifications for all Generation VI Pokémon. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 16:48, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Sprites

X and Y will not have sprites, so we need to put an image of the pokémon in game or at least something instead of putting a question mark. - - unsigned comment from Water205 (talk • contribs)

The games retain the party sprites from what we have seen so far. They will remain question marks until the games are released and a sprite can be obtained. Crystal Talian 02:56, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

But in Serebii.net , they actually have all Party Sprites and the Pokémon Front "Sprite" , it would be better if someone put them in all the Gen VI Pokémon. Here is the Link http://www.serebii.net/xy/pokemon.shtml - unsigned comment from PoisonPlush (talk • contribs)

Serebii has asked sites to not take images from him, so using sprites from there is not likely to happen. --It's Funktastic~!_{話してください} 17:01, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry... But then , people need to gather and create a Project in here for Ripping the Sprites... This is going to be harder because there are no 3DS emulators... But we need the Sprites , it can't stay like that forever. - unsigned comment from PoisonPlush (talk • contribs)

A project isn't really the solution. The problem is that the only way to currently get the sprites is with a capture device which costs upwards of $300. If we have someone who can do that, that's one thing, but that isn't something we can rely on. --It's Funktastic~!_{話してください} 21:47, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Brown spot

On the back of his head chespin has a brown spot it can be seen in the game pictures when he uses leech seed and again in the anime trailer for X and Y just look at the side of his head as he does that with his spikes, should this be added to Physiology? --Pokemans 100 (talk) 15:32, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

You got to it before I did! Bah, how dare you! lol. Though it's pure speculation, I wonder if maybe that could be a gender difference, like Buizel. Anyway, here's the spot from one scene of the anime preview. (And a "clean" version, if you'd like.) --Tails 0600 10:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

well either way for now it should be added since it is a part of chespins appearance if it turns out to be a gender difference it can always be changed.--Pokemans 100 (talk) 23:14, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Well its not a gender difference in the demos i saw both genders of chespin and they both had the brown spot. --Pokemans 100 (talk) 17:24, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Actually, re: Japanese name...

Possibly it can be noted that, on top of being a reference to "harinezumi", "hari" (針）itself is a word that means "needle/pin"? Harumei (talk) 15:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

It already is noted? Hari has been in the origin section nearly from the start. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:00, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Odd shade of brown on 3D model

For the 3D model of this Pokémon in Pokémon X and Y, the brown shade on it's body and head is lighter than the artwork depicts it as. --Tag365 (talk) 13:21, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Many Pokémon have minor color differences between their artwork and sprites. It's not "odd" at all.--電禅Den Zen 13:38, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Base stats discrepancy

I noticed that the base stats on this page are not the same as the base stats listed on the LPBBS page. I'm not sure what we're allowed to use as sources for information here, so I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to change things. Same strange discrepancy actually with Inkay, but here it's only speed that's different.

Anyone know what's going on?

RevelationOrange (talk) 09:24, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Appears the user who added Chespin's stats to the list misread. Entry has been fixed. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 10:21, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Sun and Moon model

Shouldn't we use the 3D model images from ORAS and X&Y on the Sun and Moon part as well since it's all the same model? -- Wolfgerlion64 (talk) 02:23, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

From what I have heard, the staff are not adding any Sun and Moon models until they are able to add all of them at once. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 06:45, 30 January 2017 (UTC)