Talk:M12/Archive 1

Title translation

I'd like to note that 超克の時空 means the Space-Time of Overcoming/Conquering and not the other way around. Even if it doesn't make much sense, this means that "To the Conquering of Space-Time" is wrong and Serebii.net's "Towards The Overcome's Time Space" is the only English translation that seems correct with everyone else seemingly believing PokéBeach. I think we need to correct this before people memorize the incorrect translation that we apparently see almost everywhere. As for whether "overcoming" or "conquering", to me "overcoming" sounds more accurate, but I can't say for sure as I'm not a native English speaker. It should be considered that the official movie website has an explanation for the word which says that it means "to overcome difficulties/pain": http://www.pokemon-movie.jp/chokoku/ --nYoo 13:19, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Japanese is amazing eh? Considering everyone (including Serebii) has changed it to "To the Conquering of Space-Time" (and remember, the previous translation we had was "Towards Overcoming the Space-Time Void") there's either, A: a really bad translation going around, or B: People are all getting this from one source, i.e. the movie poster. Aura-Knight 13:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't see where you read "To the Conquering of Space-Time" on Serebii.net - I clearly read "Towards The Overcome's Time Space" there. Are you trying to tell us that the poster has an English version of the title? If so, would you kindly point out where exactly I can see this on the poster?! --nYoo 15:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

What I meant was that most people over there are refering to it as such and Serebii himself has said that he is busy for the holidays, so it hasn't been changed yet. This universal translation; just accept it, its tenative anyway, we get the real title in Jan. And also, I can't read a word of Japanese, but if hundreds of fans can agree on a title, that says something. Aura-Knight 16:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I would be willing to accept it as a universal translation, but your reasoning to call it that is pretty flawed. The number of people who can really tell whether the translation is accurate is by far less than "hundreds", most just take what is written and take it as confirmed as long as it isn't corrected. And if you say yourself that you can't read Japanese, why are you taking part in this discussion then? I mean, I don't mind your input, but you don't seem to belong to the people who can validate a translation either. It also isn't as tenative as you seem to think. Going by how Japanese movie titles have been in previous years, the title (and the logo) will be almost the same in its final version, only having a Pokémon name added to it - most likely it will be something like "超克の時空へアルセウス". And that's why we need to work out a more accurate translation as the order of words/kanji in the title can't just be a mistake, or at least it's not safe at all to assume so. Now if nobody else is interested in discussing this, I assume I shouldn't just go about changing the article and moving it. I'd be glad if someone with more knowledge of Japanese could contribute to this discussion. --nYoo 11:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I may not speak Japanese, but the translation Babel Fish (a very popular translation site) gives is "To the Conquering of Space-Time". Of course Babel Fish doesn't always translate well. Arceus is the Best 23:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't like babelfish's translations, and agree with nYoo's point that "To the Conquering of Space-Time" is inaccurate, but the truth is the majority always wins. Most English-speaking Pokémon fans know this movie as "To the Conquering of Space-Time", and it would just be confusing to try and find a better translation, especially with the official one so close. Flicky1991 11:45, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Arceus

I'll clear one thing up before I kick off the main point of the message: I fully believe that a movie featuring Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and Spear Pillar will feature Arceus. HOWEVER, in the blurb for PikaProj09 on the movie list article (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_movie) it is stated that the movie is "expected to feature Arceus." By whom? By whomever happened to write that sentence. I don't think that should be there until there is some actual proof beyond opinion. LordArceus

Opinion... of 90% of the fandom. TTEchidna 08:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but does that even matter? No doubt we will have it confirmed soon, we can readd it then. LordArceus 03:20, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Here is a photo that could help with proving Arceus is in the movie. The pic is from pokebeach but they only outlined part of what seems to be part of the "pointed ring" that is showed in the light.I circled the other parts. Looking at it from different angles, sometimes I think i can see its ears and a small part of its head. But that's what i think i saw so i didn't circle it. You can see it very well in the first pic. Since many people say that arceus is in the movie, I'd say this is very good proof.

Sorry it is so small as soon as I enlarge it, I will upload it.

Edit: OK, so here is the enlarged pic, I know the arceus parts are faded, but you can still see the major parts. File:Arceus-comparison 2.jpg

Once I get the trailer, I will be able to upload a MUCH better and clearer picture. Pikachugal 02:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Calm down, friend. Arceus in this movie is too obvius. But IT IS UNCONFIRMED. We just have to wait for an official source --Nick., something to say? 02:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I just saw the new trailer on the japanese website and i am absolutely entranced by the mysterious golden blur that appears for only like half a second in the middle of the video. [1] [2] [3] Morgil27 20:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Naming

You know, since we don't go moving around every episode to its English title... why don't we move all of the movies to Pikachu Project (year)? Anyone think it'd be a good idea? TTEchidna 08:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I dunno, in my opinion it's a bad idea

does that mean we change all the Pokémon to their national dex number too?----Ultamatecharizard 22:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Think about it...Makes sense!

"The producers went to Greece in August, 2008; this confirms the basis for the movie's setting." And looking at the above posts about Arceus. Now, I know a little about Myths and things, and remember how many gods they had in Greece, back in days far gone? Anyone else think that setting a movie in a place were they were once many Mythological Gods would be a good place for the so called "God Pokémon"? C: Just a theory. ~~Takoto| サソデイ 09:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Still doesn't make it official. Even if the odds point to Arceus being in the movie, we're waiting until Arceus is actually confirmed to appear in the movie to add that information. --Shiningpikablu252 16:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I said it was 'just a theory' D: I never said it was official! ~~Takoto| サソデイ 16:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Then why does this page (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_movie) still talk about Arceus? May I please remove that? LordArceus 03:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Bulbapedia is not for theories. And yes, that thing about Arceus should be removed. --Nick., something to say? 03:30, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

New Pokemon Speculation.

Ok, Guys, I just want to say that, those of you still maintaining the site, I'll keep in the part on the Gen V Pokémon reveal speculation until December the 15th, only then, can we determine whether it should be kept in (As most of the info for the movie will be unveiled on that date.), if there is no mention of any Pokémon belonging to the new generation (not even showing a sihlouette, for that matter) then we must remove that tidbit. Got it? good. Weedle Mchairybug 19:49, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

didn't seribii say it was going to be tommorow? Ultamate_Charizard 20:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Strange... the article says that it's December 15th, Oh well... Weedle Mchairybug 20:58, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The default for any speculation is to take it out no matter how much of the fandom believes it, not to leave it an article just because we can't disprove it. You also can't disprove that Nintendo may reveal a Gen VI Pokémon on the same day, but since we have no proof we don't state it. I'm going to delete whatever it is you're talking about unless you can change my mind. LordArceus 20:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Can someone upload a picture of the unkown Pokémon siloette from DP104? I think thats the right Episode ShinyPika <3 ALS 22:16, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Here are two pics of the electric type. One of them i added an arrow and circle to the part of the pokemon that was showing. I think these are good pics for the page. The original photo is from pokebeach.

Pikachugal 01:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

is it just me?

can anyone see the other pictures here? Ultamate_Charizard 20:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

What images? If you're referring to the two links above, they were deleted for being copyright violations since they were stolen from Pokébeach, one of them altered. --Shiningpikablu252 23:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Eclipse

Check it out, the three legendary titans are battling during a total solar eclipse. I'll leave it to others to point out signifigance but it is noteworthy. Aura-Knight 23:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

seeing how time and space are probably going to get ripped a new one in this movie that eclipse would be fitting Ultamate_Charizard 20:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh gawd if anyone makes a "Twilight" reference you will get aura sphered!!!Rucario64 18:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

wait I just looked on wikipedia and apparantly there's a solar eclipse around the time of it's release Ultamate_Charizard

Four days after. TTEchidna 08:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Japan's too far north to see anything other than a partial eclipse, and the one featured in the movie is a total eclipse. Gonna have to go with a coincidence on this one. Solar eclipse of July 22, 2009.--- Aura-Knight 15:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Posters

I have the posters needed for this article. And can someone look at the website? They have the specific reading for the kanji now.

• Movie12 Poster.jpg

  Toward Overcoming the Space-Time Void movie poster

• Promo PokemonMovie12.JPG

  Pikachu the Movie poster

Uhm, that Pichu clearly has two ears. One is just partially obscured by Pikachu's head. Lucentas 18:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

who said anything to the contrary? The Dark Fiddler - Smarter than the average bear! 18:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I dunno, I think I saw something on the forums where people were saying it only had one ear or something...but I could have been half-asleep and misreading everything, it's happened before, haha. Anyway, another point that nobody seems to have pointed out yet, the Pichu is on the poster for the Pikachu short, not the movie itself, so it's useless to speculate about what role it might have in the movie. Lucentas 18:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

You make a good point there... there is no actual confirmation that the Pichu is the Pokémon that was hidden. Gen V. is back on! The Dark Fiddler - Smarter than the average bear! 18:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I didn't quite say that... There's an overwhelming amount of evidence that the Pichu was indeed the hidden Pokémon, although why they'd want to make a Pichu a "surprise" is beyond me... Lucentas 18:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Look at its eyes. They're the same brown as another Pokémon on that poster. TTEchidna 19:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow I can't belive that they might just give Pikachu a relative!!! Awsome I can't wait for more info! Rucario64 18:28, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Nintendo Owned Everyone (Including Me)

Nintendo is amazing. - unsigned comment from LordArceus (talk • contribs)

Whoops. LordArceus 17:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I must say, they're total jerks for that. TTEchidna 20:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Percent chance of Galactic, importantly Cyrus, appearing?

100%? Less? TTEchidna 21:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if they are going to appear in the movie since something like this hasn't happened since the first movie. I could be wrong anyway. Jmath 21:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Considering the fact that Galactic has already appeared in the series and the writers seem to be giving them more screen time/development than most previous teams (relative to their importance in the game, I mean), I feel it's at least worth a second thought that Cyrus will probably appear later in the series instead of in this movie; either that, or the writers are finally going to abandon their unspoken policy of keeping movie canon (mostly) separate from series canon. Lucentas 21:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

They've got the Spear Key, Adamant and Lustrous Orbs. Movie 12 obviously takes place in an area inspired by Greece (Spear Pillar) and features Arceus. They know we were disappointed in the hour special they laid out for Groudon and Kyogre, so they want to remedy it. TTEchidna 22:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

But usually stories like these culminate in the series not in a movie. Bar the first one, Movies and series are most of the time entirely disjoined. Jmath 22:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

But like I said, the writers have been pretty ambitious this series--maybe they've decided to go ahead and tie a theatrical release directly to the show. I just think we need to weigh both possibilities equally and not assume that Cyrus will be in it just because the dragon trio will be (and possibly Arceus) until we get more information. Although, they could settle for a happy medium of sorts, something like having Cyrus appear in the movie but never in the series, and just have the Galactic admins make allusions to him in the series. I think it's pretty up-in-the-air right now; considering the fact that the previous two movies have involved members of the dragon trio without involving Cyrus, it's not like it would be impossible for them to pull off a movie featuring them and Arceus and not include Cyrus. Lucentas 22:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Did they appear in the first two? Survey says: Nope! The battle has nothing to do with Cyrus and his flunkies anyway Aura-Knight 22:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

You know that Cyrus's debut wasn't till AFTER the movie premiered, right?- unsigned comment from TorchicBlaziken (talk • contribs)

That's true...didn't consider that. But I still think it's possible for them to pull off a plot about the dragon trio and Arceus without him. Lucentas 22:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Meh, never stopped them before Aura-Knight 22:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

That's highly likely to include Team Galactic and Cyrus, not to mention the fact that it can also boost tickets sales! -Billy4b2004 09:08, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The only thing I can see that may boost ticket sales is the inevitable Arceus giveaway. Besides, Pokémon was unphased by going up against Studio Ghibli this year so it doesn't really need help on the popularity front.

Team Magma were in six and while I can see them having that role, a plotline started in the series should conclude in the series. We'll probably be around the start of the league tournament by July anyway. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 09:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Darkrai popped back up in the show so why not Arceus. Then Cyrus could try to control it.--MisterE13 03:24, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Can we please

Can we please put Piplup on the cast sheet? You know it's going to be there. And please don't give me the "unconfirmed" lecture. It was in the first two movies, is featured on the poster for this and the previous Pikachu movie. I get why you might not want it for the regular episodes but, come on now... There is really no good reason it wouldn't appear. Do you really think after all the writers have done with Piplup so far that there really going to make it skip a movie appearance? Or are you going to get all mad at me if I add it on the cast sheet? Face it, Piplup IS the new Togepi. --ケンジのガール 09:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. Found out officially that it's in the movie. --ケンジのガール 10:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

It's better than Togepi, believe me. At least it does something. TTEchidna 21:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

maybe theres something hint on there maybe but its looks like similat to zelda twiligth princess.......--Bakunawa 10:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

You know, even IF I did want it to appear in the episodes, we still should wait for more information in regards to whether Piplup is actually appearing or not. For all we know, the poster could have just misled us. It's not like they haven't done that before [cough, cough, cough, cough, Palkia, Sky Warrior poster cough, cough, cough, cough] [cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, Mudkip and Treecko in Jirachi poster cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough]. I won't argue that it should be erased, since, as you said, it's officially confirmed. However, for episodes, we DEFINITELY need to wait until the the previews at least before we add in Piplup. I mean, should we add in Wobbuffet in every single pokemon episode that's upcoming just because it appears in a lot of the episodes? Because that would be the same thing. Weedle Mchairybug 20:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I was referring to the trailer, not the poster. Piplup was in the trailer. And Wobbuffet hasn't been in the anime for nearly 50 episodes straight without an absence. Piplup has. It's not just the number of episodes its appeared in. It's the consistency. Wobbuffet is in a lot of episodes but will be absent once every 10 or 15 episodes. Each week that passes, Piplup gets confirmed for yet another episode and some still wanna believe that its all of a sudden not going to appear next week. Besides, Wobbuffet belongs to an antagonist who are not the absolute central point of the anime like the heroes are. --ケンジのガール 21:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Trailer is misleading too! Not every scene in the trailer are included in the movie, for instance, the Pidgeot in movie 10 trailer. I agree with Weedle.-Billy4b2004 05:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Meowth belonged to the Antagonists, as well, and yet that never stopped people from adding in his name before. I'm not saying that Piplup shouldn't be in any episodes, I'm actually more neutral to the debate. All I'm saying that it still needs more information. And I still don't see too much of a difference between Piplup appearing and Wobbuffet appearing. I mean, at least with Pikachu, Meowth, and up until "A Togepi Mirage", Togepi, they weren't in pokeballs, so their appearances were definitely a given. Piplup, no matter how many appearances it's made in a way similar to Pikachu and Meowth, is still a pokeball pokemon that makes multiple appearances in episodes, not unlike Wobbuffet, in one sense. Unlike Piplup, Wobbuffet still doesn't get inserted into the cast pokemon of the episode [or rather, people aren't trying to insert it in.]. Basically, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't be too hasty to add in Piplup before we have undeniable proof that it's in. I mean, I don't add in Wobbuffet to the pokemon appearing in every upcoming episode, and you don't either, so what makes Piplup any different? Weedle Mchairybug 22:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay... appearently you haven't read anything I said to why Piplup should be treated different than Wobbuffet. NEARLY 50 EPISODES STRAIGHT WITHOUT AN ABSCENCE. That's why Piplup should be added in automatically. It be different if Piplup was absent every few episodes during this span but it wasn't. Wobbuffet has never appeared for 50 episodes without an absence. As for Meowth, he's an antagonist in himself. He really doesn't belong to anyone like Wobbuffet does. And he's actually appeared in every episode. Not like Wobbuffet. --ケンジのガール 22:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Merchandise

Any way we can work this into the article, other than saying "Something something, featuring Monferno, Bronzong, Staraptor, and Heatran, prompting fan speculation that Ash's Chimchar and Staravia will evolve and Brock/Dawn will capture a Bronzong something something Heatran's role." --- Aura-Knight 22:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

......I would at least suspect the character of the movie to have a Bronzong.-Billy4b2004 07:59, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Pichu

On the page, it says "a Pichu with spiked ears" whereas everywhere else, it says "notched ear" I know it's a bit nit-picky but this does seem like the more official term.--MisterE13 23:54, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

More official? Both terms are fanon! -Billy4b2004 05:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

The former or the latter of which you said? --Bulbapedian - Talk 23:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Did. --((Marton imos)) 00:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Heartran

serebii.net said Heatran involve this thing 12 movie...........--Bakunawa 06:53, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

......Here you're in the best Pokémon Encyclopedia ever! Serebii is a site full of speculation! -Billy4b2004 07:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not to sure but I guess that Serebii's information doesn't qualify as sure evidence here.--Diby 06:55, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I have searched for the corocoro issue of jan 19 but the content of that issue is about megaman and the revivl of one of its series, so was the info date wrong?--Nobody777 15:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

World Hobbo Fair

shouldn't the legendary pokemon have been revealed on the 19th? if it was, why doesn't Bulbanews have the info.? Vik0z0z 21:22, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

There wasn't anything revealed at the fair. It would have been up if it was. Jmath 21:27, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I think I have an explanation for that, the world hobby fair is moving around in different cities like tokyo and nagua and others, so the news will be released at the world hobby fair but with an unknown date and city.--Nobody777 13:34, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Official Arceus

Guys, there's a link on the page to Arceus. Since there's already been THAT hint with the magazine, shouldn't the link be put there(and the page to be started) when we get something official? Plus, we just might have to watch out for any possible "funny business" around the Arceus when there's still NOTHING official...--DRAGONBEAST^X 01:50, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

So you're saying the link shouldn't be should unless we make a page about Arceus, But we can't because we have nothing more than a mere magazine hint? I'm just confused.....--FF(edits-talk) 01:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm saying that we shouldn't have the link there until anything official. When something official pops up, sure we party, Arceus is revealed, an admin puts the link and someone should starts a decent article if there's at 100-something words of info. To be even MORE CLEAR, someone removes the link, something official pops up, the link is put there and the article on it is started if enough info to make it even a decent stub is put there.--DRAGONBEAST^X 01:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikis put links to pages that haven't yet been created so someone can know to create them. TTEchidna 02:57, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I meant that the link to the uncreated Arceus (anime) article should be removed from the page, until official news, even though its very likely to happen. The link should be put on the page and the Arceus (anime) page should be started when we get official news. Official news!--DRAGONBEAST^X 13:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

The link doesn't matter. If you're looking for something official that confirms that Arceus will appear in the movie, it's the calendar. Let's just wait until someone who knows more about the upcoming star of the movie starts the page. --×Kevzo8 13:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Then again... the calendar IS official. It could a hidden confirmation cause Nintendo wants to reveal the Alpha Pokémon in a special way. That's it! We keep it on there! More info is bound to come any time now, any minute now... you get it, I guess it really should be kept on the page.--DRAGONBEAST^X 14:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

OMG! Arceus has been revealed and it has been revealed to be the star of the 12th movie! HERE! We be partying! Party... party... okay, I'm done... anyway, we can make the Arceus article either now, or later, I'm thinking "freely" right now! I guess we'll just put the future event template if we start it now...--DRAGONBEAST^X 05:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

We don't have any information on the one appearing in the movie yet, but that likely comes this week or next week. All that's know is that it IS in the movie. TTEchidna 06:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

New name?

In this scan, if I am not worng, the new title of the movie is "Arceus: To the Conquering of Space-Time" --Nick., something to say? 15:26, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

You are right, but Bulbapedia wants to be sure and wait for better scans.--^☆Tavisource 17:45, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's really needed... even if the scan's quality is poor, we can clearly see that Arceus was added to the movie's title... - Taylor 17:50, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it's good enough to move the page. Even Serebii is reporting the new title. ~Toastypk - ^Loom. 17:55, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

This is what happens when admins are protecting almost every page for every smallest reason. The Bulbapedia CAN'T BE UP TO DATE because of this. --Maxim 18:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Well a reason a lot of the pages are protected is so people don't just start editing things in that might turn out to not be true. It sucks to have to lock them, yes, but it's still best to wait until some information is pretty obvious before editing it in. ~Toastypk - ^Loom. 18:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The need to have the page up-to-date > The risk of having a n00b posting fake informations. --Maxim 18:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

hold on, I taught the name of it had - instead of : Ultamate_Charizard 20:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

In Japanese characters, there's only a hollow between "Arceus" and the old title. In all the other titles, we used ":" in similar cases. - Taylor 20:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Johto Starters

After the recent revealing of the Coro Coro scans, I believe Cyndaquil, Torchic, and Totodile should be added to the "Featured Pokémon" section.- unsigned comment from StarLeged (talk • contribs)

How do we know Johto starters are in this???

GSDS hints anyone??? Super-Max 21:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

It's Chikorita and its on the scsn on Serebii.--^☆Tavisource 21:47, 11 February 2009 (UTC)