Talk:M12/Archive 1

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Gold Silver Ethan Time Capsule.png This is a talk page archive.

It contains old discussions of topics relating to the article. Please do not add or remove any content from it.

Title translation

I'd like to note that 超克の時空 means the Space-Time of Overcoming/Conquering and not the other way around. Even if it doesn't make much sense, this means that "To the Conquering of Space-Time" is wrong and's "Towards The Overcome's Time Space" is the only English translation that seems correct with everyone else seemingly believing PokéBeach. I think we need to correct this before people memorize the incorrect translation that we apparently see almost everywhere. As for whether "overcoming" or "conquering", to me "overcoming" sounds more accurate, but I can't say for sure as I'm not a native English speaker. It should be considered that the official movie website has an explanation for the word which says that it means "to overcome difficulties/pain": --nYoo 13:19, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Japanese is amazing eh? Considering everyone (including Serebii) has changed it to "To the Conquering of Space-Time" (and remember, the previous translation we had was "Towards Overcoming the Space-Time Void") there's either, A: a really bad translation going around, or B: People are all getting this from one source, i.e. the movie poster. Aura-Knight 13:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't see where you read "To the Conquering of Space-Time" on - I clearly read "Towards The Overcome's Time Space" there. Are you trying to tell us that the poster has an English version of the title? If so, would you kindly point out where exactly I can see this on the poster?! --nYoo 15:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
What I meant was that most people over there are refering to it as such and Serebii himself has said that he is busy for the holidays, so it hasn't been changed yet. This universal translation; just accept it, its tenative anyway, we get the real title in Jan. And also, I can't read a word of Japanese, but if hundreds of fans can agree on a title, that says something. Aura-Knight 16:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I would be willing to accept it as a universal translation, but your reasoning to call it that is pretty flawed. The number of people who can really tell whether the translation is accurate is by far less than "hundreds", most just take what is written and take it as confirmed as long as it isn't corrected. And if you say yourself that you can't read Japanese, why are you taking part in this discussion then? I mean, I don't mind your input, but you don't seem to belong to the people who can validate a translation either. It also isn't as tenative as you seem to think. Going by how Japanese movie titles have been in previous years, the title (and the logo) will be almost the same in its final version, only having a Pokémon name added to it - most likely it will be something like "超克の時空へアルセウス". And that's why we need to work out a more accurate translation as the order of words/kanji in the title can't just be a mistake, or at least it's not safe at all to assume so. Now if nobody else is interested in discussing this, I assume I shouldn't just go about changing the article and moving it. I'd be glad if someone with more knowledge of Japanese could contribute to this discussion. --nYoo 11:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I may not speak Japanese, but the translation Babel Fish (a very popular translation site) gives is "To the Conquering of Space-Time". Of course Babel Fish doesn't always translate well. Arceus is the Best 23:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't like babelfish's translations, and agree with nYoo's point that "To the Conquering of Space-Time" is inaccurate, but the truth is the majority always wins. Most English-speaking Pokémon fans know this movie as "To the Conquering of Space-Time", and it would just be confusing to try and find a better translation, especially with the official one so close. Flicky1991 11:45, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

That's why redirects exist. o.o" People could still find it under "To the Conquering of Space-Time" even if the article title is different. --nYoo 03:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Stop arguing about it, the English title will be revealed sooner or later anyway! Taromon777 22:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

doesn't 征服 or 征 mean overcoming, conquering, and subjugation in japanese? are you sure that 超克 means conquering? vik0z0z 23:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


I'll clear one thing up before I kick off the main point of the message: I fully believe that a movie featuring Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and Spear Pillar will feature Arceus. HOWEVER, in the blurb for PikaProj09 on the movie list article ( it is stated that the movie is "expected to feature Arceus." By whom? By whomever happened to write that sentence. I don't think that should be there until there is some actual proof beyond opinion. LordArceus

Opinion... of 90% of the fandom. TTEchidna 08:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but does that even matter? No doubt we will have it confirmed soon, we can readd it then. LordArceus 03:20, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Here is a photo that could help with proving Arceus is in the movie. The pic is from pokebeach but they only outlined part of what seems to be part of the "pointed ring" that is showed in the light.I circled the other parts. Looking at it from different angles, sometimes I think i can see its ears and a small part of its head. But that's what i think i saw so i didn't circle it. You can see it very well in the first pic. Since many people say that arceus is in the movie, I'd say this is very good proof.

Sorry it is so small as soon as I enlarge it, I will upload it.

Edit: OK, so here is the enlarged pic, I know the arceus parts are faded, but you can still see the major parts.

Once I get the trailer, I will be able to upload a MUCH better and clearer picture. Pikachugal 02:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Calm down, friend. Arceus in this movie is too obvius. But IT IS UNCONFIRMED. We just have to wait for an official source --Nick., something to say? 02:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I just saw the new trailer on the japanese website and i am absolutely entranced by the mysterious golden blur that appears for only like half a second in the middle of the video. [1] [2] [3] Morgil27 20:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


You know, since we don't go moving around every episode to its English title... why don't we move all of the movies to Pikachu Project (year)? Anyone think it'd be a good idea? TTEchidna 08:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I dunno, in my opinion it's a bad idea
does that mean we change all the Pokémon to their national dex number too?----Ultamatecharizard 22:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Think about it...Makes sense!

"The producers went to Greece in August, 2008; this confirms the basis for the movie's setting." And looking at the above posts about Arceus. Now, I know a little about Myths and things, and remember how many gods they had in Greece, back in days far gone? Anyone else think that setting a movie in a place were they were once many Mythological Gods would be a good place for the so called "God Pokémon"? C: Just a theory. ~~Takoto| サソデイ 09:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Still doesn't make it official. Even if the odds point to Arceus being in the movie, we're waiting until Arceus is actually confirmed to appear in the movie to add that information. --Shiningpikablu252 16:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I said it was 'just a theory' D: I never said it was official! ~~Takoto| サソデイ 16:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Then why does this page ( still talk about Arceus? May I please remove that? LordArceus 03:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Bulbapedia is not for theories. And yes, that thing about Arceus should be removed. --Nick., something to say? 03:30, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks like you were right Takoto, Arceus is in the movie! Taromon777 21:57, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

New Pokemon Speculation.

Ok, Guys, I just want to say that, those of you still maintaining the site, I'll keep in the part on the Gen V Pokémon reveal speculation until December the 15th, only then, can we determine whether it should be kept in (As most of the info for the movie will be unveiled on that date.), if there is no mention of any Pokémon belonging to the new generation (not even showing a sihlouette, for that matter) then we must remove that tidbit. Got it? good. Weedle Mchairybug 19:49, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

didn't seribii say it was going to be tommorow? UltamateCharizard 20:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Strange... the article says that it's December 15th, Oh well... Weedle Mchairybug 20:58, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
The default for any speculation is to take it out no matter how much of the fandom believes it, not to leave it an article just because we can't disprove it. You also can't disprove that Nintendo may reveal a Gen VI Pokémon on the same day, but since we have no proof we don't state it. I'm going to delete whatever it is you're talking about unless you can change my mind. LordArceus 20:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Can someone upload a picture of the unkown Pokémon siloette from DP104? I think thats the right Episode ShinyPika <3 ALS 22:16, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Here are two pics of the electric type. One of them i added an arrow and circle to the part of the pokemon that was showing. I think these are good pics for the page. The original photo is from pokebeach.

Pikachugal 01:56, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

i think the pokemon under the big ? was the pichu

is it just me?

can anyone see the other pictures here? UltamateCharizard 20:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

What images? If you're referring to the two links above, they were deleted for being copyright violations since they were stolen from Pokébeach, one of them altered. --Shiningpikablu252 23:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


Check it out, the three legendary titans are battling during a total solar eclipse. I'll leave it to others to point out signifigance but it is noteworthy. Aura-Knight 23:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

seeing how time and space are probably going to get ripped a new one in this movie that eclipse would be fitting UltamateCharizard 20:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh gawd if anyone makes a "Twilight" reference you will get aura sphered!!!Rucario64 18:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
wait I just looked on wikipedia and apparantly there's a solar eclipse around the time of it's release UltamateCharizard
Four days after. TTEchidna 08:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Japan's too far north to see anything other than a partial eclipse, and the one featured in the movie is a total eclipse. Gonna have to go with a coincidence on this one. Solar eclipse of July 22, 2009.--- Aura-Knight 15:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


I have the posters needed for this article. And can someone look at the website? They have the specific reading for the kanji now.

Uhm, that Pichu clearly has two ears. One is just partially obscured by Pikachu's head. Lucentas 18:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
who said anything to the contrary? The Dark Fiddler - Smarter than the average bear! 18:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I dunno, I think I saw something on the forums where people were saying it only had one ear or something...but I could have been half-asleep and misreading everything, it's happened before, haha. Anyway, another point that nobody seems to have pointed out yet, the Pichu is on the poster for the Pikachu short, not the movie itself, so it's useless to speculate about what role it might have in the movie. Lucentas 18:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
You make a good point there... there is no actual confirmation that the Pichu is the Pokémon that was hidden. Gen V. is back on! The Dark Fiddler - Smarter than the average bear! 18:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, I didn't quite say that... There's an overwhelming amount of evidence that the Pichu was indeed the hidden Pokémon, although why they'd want to make a Pichu a "surprise" is beyond me... Lucentas 18:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Look at its eyes. They're the same brown as another Pokémon on that poster. TTEchidna 19:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Wow I can't belive that they might just give Pikachu a relative!!! Awsome I can't wait for more info! Rucario64 18:28, 14 December 2008 (UT::C)
Pikachu having a relative? More likely its Pikachu when it was a Pichu.--XNovaXx 00:15, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

That is not a normal Pichu. I looked at about 70 Diffrent pictures of pichu, and none of them have brown eyes. And that's not even mentioning its ear. I'm thinking that this is another species , a second Pokémon that will turn into a normal pikachu, from Gen V.--Mtn otter 17:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Full quality-lowres stretched stretch more Should I upload the English movie poster? Which size? It's in low quality but should suffice until it's released in full size. --Coololz352 02:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo Owned Everyone (Including Me)

Nintendo is amazing. - unsigned comment from LordArceus (talkcontribs)

Whoops. LordArceus 17:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I must say, they're total jerks for that. TTEchidna 20:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Percent chance of Galactic, importantly Cyrus, appearing?

100%? Less? TTEchidna 21:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if they are going to appear in the movie since something like this hasn't happened since the first movie. I could be wrong anyway. Jmath 21:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Considering the fact that Galactic has already appeared in the series and the writers seem to be giving them more screen time/development than most previous teams (relative to their importance in the game, I mean), I feel it's at least worth a second thought that Cyrus will probably appear later in the series instead of in this movie; either that, or the writers are finally going to abandon their unspoken policy of keeping movie canon (mostly) separate from series canon. Lucentas 21:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
They've got the Spear Key, Adamant and Lustrous Orbs. Movie 12 obviously takes place in an area inspired by Greece (Spear Pillar) and features Arceus. They know we were disappointed in the hour special they laid out for Groudon and Kyogre, so they want to remedy it. TTEchidna 22:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
But usually stories like these culminate in the series not in a movie. Bar the first one, Movies and series are most of the time entirely disjoined. Jmath 22:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
But like I said, the writers have been pretty ambitious this series--maybe they've decided to go ahead and tie a theatrical release directly to the show. I just think we need to weigh both possibilities equally and not assume that Cyrus will be in it just because the dragon trio will be (and possibly Arceus) until we get more information. Although, they could settle for a happy medium of sorts, something like having Cyrus appear in the movie but never in the series, and just have the Galactic admins make allusions to him in the series. I think it's pretty up-in-the-air right now; considering the fact that the previous two movies have involved members of the dragon trio without involving Cyrus, it's not like it would be impossible for them to pull off a movie featuring them and Arceus and not include Cyrus. Lucentas 22:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Did they appear in the first two? Survey says: Nope! The battle has nothing to do with Cyrus and his flunkies anyway Aura-Knight 22:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
You know that Cyrus's debut wasn't till AFTER the movie premiered, right?- unsigned comment from TorchicBlaziken (talkcontribs)
That's true...didn't consider that. But I still think it's possible for them to pull off a plot about the dragon trio and Arceus without him. Lucentas 22:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Meh, never stopped them before Aura-Knight 22:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
That's highly likely to include Team Galactic and Cyrus, not to mention the fact that it can also boost tickets sales! -Billy4b2004 09:08, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
The only thing I can see that may boost ticket sales is the inevitable Arceus giveaway. Besides, Pokémon was unphased by going up against Studio Ghibli this year so it doesn't really need help on the popularity front.
Team Magma were in six and while I can see them having that role, a plotline started in the series should conclude in the series. We'll probably be around the start of the league tournament by July anyway. --FabuVinny |Talk Page| 09:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Darkrai popped back up in the show so why not Arceus. Then Cyrus could try to control it.--MisterE13 03:24, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

the anime is soon coming out the episode that involves spear pillar and galactic, so it is a possibility vik0z0z 23:26, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Can we please

Can we please put Piplup on the cast sheet? You know it's going to be there. And please don't give me the "unconfirmed" lecture. It was in the first two movies, is featured on the poster for this and the previous Pikachu movie. I get why you might not want it for the regular episodes but, come on now... There is really no good reason it wouldn't appear. Do you really think after all the writers have done with Piplup so far that there really going to make it skip a movie appearance? Or are you going to get all mad at me if I add it on the cast sheet? Face it, Piplup IS the new Togepi. --ケンジガール 09:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. Found out officially that it's in the movie. --ケンジガール 10:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

It's better than Togepi, believe me. At least it does something. TTEchidna 21:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

maybe theres something hint on there maybe but its looks like similat to zelda twiligth princess.......--Bakunawa 10:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

You know, even IF I did want it to appear in the episodes, we still should wait for more information in regards to whether Piplup is actually appearing or not. For all we know, the poster could have just misled us. It's not like they haven't done that before [cough, cough, cough, cough, Palkia, Sky Warrior poster cough, cough, cough, cough] [cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, Mudkip and Treecko in Jirachi poster cough, cough, cough, cough, cough, cough]. I won't argue that it should be erased, since, as you said, it's officially confirmed. However, for episodes, we DEFINITELY need to wait until the the previews at least before we add in Piplup. I mean, should we add in Wobbuffet in every single pokemon episode that's upcoming just because it appears in a lot of the episodes? Because that would be the same thing. Weedle Mchairybug 20:50, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I was referring to the trailer, not the poster. Piplup was in the trailer. And Wobbuffet hasn't been in the anime for nearly 50 episodes straight without an absence. Piplup has. It's not just the number of episodes its appeared in. It's the consistency. Wobbuffet is in a lot of episodes but will be absent once every 10 or 15 episodes. Each week that passes, Piplup gets confirmed for yet another episode and some still wanna believe that its all of a sudden not going to appear next week. Besides, Wobbuffet belongs to an antagonist who are not the absolute central point of the anime like the heroes are. --ケンジガール 21:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Trailer is misleading too! Not every scene in the trailer are included in the movie, for instance, the Pidgeot in movie 10 trailer. I agree with Weedle.-Billy4b2004 05:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Meowth belonged to the Antagonists, as well, and yet that never stopped people from adding in his name before. I'm not saying that Piplup shouldn't be in any episodes, I'm actually more neutral to the debate. All I'm saying that it still needs more information. And I still don't see too much of a difference between Piplup appearing and Wobbuffet appearing. I mean, at least with Pikachu, Meowth, and up until "A Togepi Mirage", Togepi, they weren't in pokeballs, so their appearances were definitely a given. Piplup, no matter how many appearances it's made in a way similar to Pikachu and Meowth, is still a pokeball pokemon that makes multiple appearances in episodes, not unlike Wobbuffet, in one sense. Unlike Piplup, Wobbuffet still doesn't get inserted into the cast pokemon of the episode [or rather, people aren't trying to insert it in.]. Basically, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't be too hasty to add in Piplup before we have undeniable proof that it's in. I mean, I don't add in Wobbuffet to the pokemon appearing in every upcoming episode, and you don't either, so what makes Piplup any different? Weedle Mchairybug 22:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay... appearently you haven't read anything I said to why Piplup should be treated different than Wobbuffet. NEARLY 50 EPISODES STRAIGHT WITHOUT AN ABSCENCE. That's why Piplup should be added in automatically. It be different if Piplup was absent every few episodes during this span but it wasn't. Wobbuffet has never appeared for 50 episodes without an absence. As for Meowth, he's an antagonist in himself. He really doesn't belong to anyone like Wobbuffet does. And he's actually appeared in every episode. Not like Wobbuffet. --ケンジガール 22:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

piplup is in there. oh, and the johto starters (possible referance to HG/SS? anyway, I just watched it in english... because it 4 days till release, does this mean it gonna be shown on cartoon network? shaymin, darkrai, alice, her chimchar and tonio, baron alberto with his likiliky and zero, newton graceland and infi (the hologirl) all appear in the credits, should this be mentioned?--Ben7229 20:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


Any way we can work this into the article, other than saying "Something something, featuring Monferno, Bronzong, Staraptor, and Heatran, prompting fan speculation that Ash's Chimchar and Staravia will evolve and Brock/Dawn will capture a Bronzong something something Heatran's role." --- Aura-Knight 22:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

......I would at least suspect the character of the movie to have a Bronzong.-Billy4b2004 07:59, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

the bronzong is the guy with the funny head dress's and monferno is released from ash's pokeball, and his staraptor already evloved. his chimchar may have done too--Ben7229 20:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


On the page, it says "a Pichu with spiked ears" whereas everywhere else, it says "notched ear" I know it's a bit nit-picky but this does seem like the more official term.--MisterE13 23:54, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

More official? Both terms are fanon! -Billy4b2004 05:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
The former or the latter of which you said? --Bulbapedian - Talk 23:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Did. --((Marton imos)) 00:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Heartran said Heatran involve this thing 12 movie...........--Bakunawa 06:53, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

......Here you're in the best Pokémon Encyclopedia ever! Serebii is a site full of speculation! -Billy4b2004 07:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm not to sure but I guess that Serebii's information doesn't qualify as sure evidence here.--Diby 06:55, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I have searched for the corocoro issue of jan 19 but the content of that issue is about megaman and the revivl of one of its series, so was the info date wrong?--Nobody777 15:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC) heatran is in it. its got a harness on it and look like a big bug--Ben7229 20:29, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

World Hobbo Fair

shouldn't the legendary pokemon have been revealed on the 19th? if it was, why doesn't Bulbanews have the info.? Vik0z0z 21:22, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

There wasn't anything revealed at the fair. It would have been up if it was. Jmath 21:27, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I think I have an explanation for that, the world hobby fair is moving around in different cities like tokyo and nagua and others, so the news will be released at the world hobby fair but with an unknown date and city.--Nobody777 13:34, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Official Arceus

Guys, there's a link on the page to Arceus. Since there's already been THAT hint with the magazine, shouldn't the link be put there(and the page to be started) when we get something official? Plus, we just might have to watch out for any possible "funny business" around the Arceus when there's still NOTHING official...--DRAGONBEASTX 01:50, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

So you're saying the link shouldn't be should unless we make a page about Arceus, But we can't because we have nothing more than a mere magazine hint? I'm just confused.....--FF(edits-talk) 01:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm saying that we shouldn't have the link there until anything official. When something official pops up, sure we party, Arceus is revealed, an admin puts the link and someone should starts a decent article if there's at 100-something words of info. To be even MORE CLEAR, someone removes the link, something official pops up, the link is put there and the article on it is started if enough info to make it even a decent stub is put there.--DRAGONBEASTX 01:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikis put links to pages that haven't yet been created so someone can know to create them. TTEchidna 02:57, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I meant that the link to the uncreated Arceus (anime) article should be removed from the page, until official news, even though its very likely to happen. The link should be put on the page and the Arceus (anime) page should be started when we get official news. Official news!--DRAGONBEASTX 13:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

The link doesn't matter. If you're looking for something official that confirms that Arceus will appear in the movie, it's the calendar. Let's just wait until someone who knows more about the upcoming star of the movie starts the page. --×Kevzo8 13:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Then again... the calendar IS official. It could a hidden confirmation cause Nintendo wants to reveal the Alpha Pokémon in a special way. That's it! We keep it on there! More info is bound to come any time now, any minute now... you get it, I guess it really should be kept on the page.--DRAGONBEASTX 14:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

OMG! Arceus has been revealed and it has been revealed to be the star of the 12th movie! HERE! We be partying! Party... party... okay, I'm done... anyway, we can make the Arceus article either now, or later, I'm thinking "freely" right now! I guess we'll just put the future event template if we start it now...--DRAGONBEASTX 05:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

We don't have any information on the one appearing in the movie yet, but that likely comes this week or next week. All that's know is that it IS in the movie. TTEchidna 06:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

New name?

In this scan, if I am not worng, the new title of the movie is "Arceus: To the Conquering of Space-Time" --Nick., something to say? 15:26, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

You are right, but Bulbapedia wants to be sure and wait for better scans.--Tavisource 17:45, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it's really needed... even if the scan's quality is poor, we can clearly see that Arceus was added to the movie's title... - Taylor 17:50, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I think it's good enough to move the page. Even Serebii is reporting the new title. ~Toastypk - Loom. 17:55, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
This is what happens when admins are protecting almost every page for every smallest reason. The Bulbapedia CAN'T BE UP TO DATE because of this. --Maxim 18:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Well a reason a lot of the pages are protected is so people don't just start editing things in that might turn out to not be true. It sucks to have to lock them, yes, but it's still best to wait until some information is pretty obvious before editing it in. ~Toastypk - Loom. 18:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
The need to have the page up-to-date > The risk of having a n00b posting fake informations. --Maxim 18:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
hold on, I taught the name of it had - instead of : UltamateCharizard 20:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
In Japanese characters, there's only a hollow between "Arceus" and the old title. In all the other titles, we used ":" in similar cases. - Taylor 20:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Johto Starters

After the recent revealing of the Coro Coro scans, I believe Cyndaquil, Torchic, and Totodile should be added to the "Featured Pokémon" section.- unsigned comment from StarLeged (talkcontribs)

How do we know Johto starters are in this???

GSDS hints anyone??? Super-Max 21:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

It's Chikorita and its on the scsn on Serebii.--Tavisource 21:47, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

OH, that's so unfair, I thought they were new ones, linked to a hint to GSDS, but sadly the ones in that clip are just Ash's that he caught in the Johto region. He probably had them transfered from Proffesor Oak. (Please let him get rid of Gliscor) Super-Max 21:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Just FYI, they're not Ash's pokémon (Ash's Chikorita evolved, remember?) Weedle Mchairybug 21:53, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Mew came along and devolved it??? I hate this, I really want GSDS, but something tells me, they are covering so much of Johto so they don't have to do a remake. Super-Max 21:55, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Exactly--Sludge 21:54, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

(ECx2)Everything is a GSDS hint, isn't it.... What happened to waiting until the movie was released? Pikachu and Piplup are on the poster too, but they aren't mentioned. Just. Wait. — THE TROM — 21:57, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

OMG, your saying Piplup is in the 12th movie as well? Wait a minute, Piplup is a water type pokemon, Johto has water type pokemon. OMG, another hint. LOL Super-Max 21:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't they end up covering a lot of the Gen III pokemon/Gen IV pokemon near the end of Johto and the Kanto Battle Frontier, respectively, not to mention the fact that they covered a lot on Kanto in AG (even going as far as to hold the BF in Kanto instead of holding it on that Island near Hoenn.) and they still advertised the fact that the FR/LG remakes were coming out?

Another thing, No, we aren't going that far. Besides, using Piplup is not the same thing as having... ohh, not just one Gen II pokemon have a major role in a movie, but apparantly having four Gen II pokemon have major roles in the movie.Weedle Mchairybug 22:01, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

4neeums (Forums).--☆Coolピカチュウ! 22:02, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I have said since the first day i found out about Battle Frontier in Platinum, I said THE ANIME WILL HOST THE BF IN JOHTO. And it looks like that is a fact (him and Dawn willl go there, Dawn because of what May told her Contests, Ash for the BF), hopefully that means the games will also do a johto. I just hope there is no Kanto in GSDS, otherwise Kanto would have been in every generation Super-Max 22:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

*points to CoolPikachu!'s comment above*--freezingCOLD (page, talk) 22:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

what about Heatran, who was also in the poster? --vik0z0z 23:12, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

i have a point

First of all, I would like to point out to the comment above mentioning that Heatrans also on the poster. Also, shouldn't the title be renamed to "The Conquering of Space and Time"? There's no "To" anywhere in the text. And also, yes, Space and Time is written as Space-Time...but it should be translated to Space AND Time. It's like how you don't see THE in the title, but it still appears in the translation.--Tavisource 01:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello? Is anyone listening to me?--Tavisource 04:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
An admin must add Heatran in the list. Regarding the title, I dunno how to translate Japanese. D: ×Kevzo8 04:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Good point, Tavi. Where did the "To" exactly come from? As proven by the meme, "All Your Base are Belong To Us", you can't always directly translate something. Seriously... where DID the "To" come from? Can anyone find out?--DRAGONBEASTX 06:02, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Psh, Heatran. Who cares about that Vader knockoff. JOHTO STAAARTERRRRRS! TTEchidna 06:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

TTE, I also love Johto and I support GSDS(and of course I see the Johto starters as a hint), and heck, I even downloaded and still playing the hack, ShinyGold... but that was completely off topic. Now can anyone find out what with the "To". I knew the title sounded weird but I didn't think much of it until now.--DRAGONBEASTX 06:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The error in the AYB is not in the "To", thus, your example is irrelevant, witness. ΘρtιmαtumTalk 11:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Wait. spacetime doing the conquering?! TTEchidna 09:46, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

It sounds a little ridiculous, but I don't know... the preview didn't feature that, just the dragon trion about to see Arceus come in to stop their fighting or something in that matter...--DRAGONBEASTX 09:53, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
A "spacetime of conquering" isn't technically different from a "conquering spacetime", if you keep in mind that "conquering" is an adjective...--Loveはドコ? (talk contribs) 01:02, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I just want to say that I think the current translation of the title on BP doesn't make much sense. --Argy 08:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Whatever happened to Arceus: The Conquering of Space-Time? --((Marton imos)) 11:04, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I think it was changed to a more literal translation. I have to agree with Argy that the current title is pretty bizarre. It means almost the exact same thing as the previous title, as long as Conquering is understood to be a possesive adjective Grammar and English sentence structure is not my strong suit though, so i may be wrong. Aura-Knight 15:37, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
アルセウス 超克の時空へ Arceus: The Conquest of Spacetime or Spacetime's Conquest. I dunno much how Japanese works, but really, literal translations never get you anywhere. Sometimes a different word's used. TTEchidna 05:03, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Er, you're translation's sort of...I guess I would call it backwards. Chōkoku is "conquest" and Jikū is "spacetime". The の no comes after the Chōkoku, so that's the word that's possessive. Technically, the title is "conquest's spacetime" or "spacetime of conquest". However, the へ e is a directional particle, so it has to be something like "to a spacetime of conquest."--Loveはドコ? (talk contribs) 05:14, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Main screen turn on? TTEchidna 05:29, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the current title is the least ridiculous-sounding one which still means the same as the original Japanese. Flicky1991 18:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


Here's an image of Heatran and the Johot starters. Add it if you want. *tc26* 09:40, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

That's a duplicate file! ×Kevzo8 09:45, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

CAN we plaese add the picture - unsigned comment from Vik0z0z (talkcontribs)

English voice actors

Can we add them since we know who they are already ? Livinlarge18 17:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

HOW can we know the English voice actors if the VA's haven't been released for Japan yet?--Mew a.k.a. Prmatt11 at 17:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
WELL, assuming everyone's not fired, we know who is doing the voices of the major characters right now. Stands to reason that they should still be around in a year or so when the dubbed version is released. Aura-Knight 22:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
If we had assumed that for Movie 9 when it was announced, we'd be wrong. No. TTEchidna 05:01, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


On the page it says giRatina. It should say giRatina. Glitchym1Mglitch 16:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Same mistake with Shaymin.--MisterE13 18:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
You're both wrong - the large red letters spell "ARCEUS", and the two leftovers (Giratina and Palkia) have large yellow letters instead. Flicky1991 19:38, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I would change it though, to maybe like say the "singular red letters" or make the excluded names' red colours be something else like blue or green, or even take those names out completely, I mean there is only 8 names there and there are 12 months. What harm would having 6 names there? Smashbrother101 20:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Final poster

See Bulbanews.--Mew a.k.a. Prmatt11 at 00:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


Should the trailer be added somewhere? --Shiny Noctowl 01:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I dunno...can you really trust trailers? Points to the 8th movie trailer - unsigned comment from Riggins (talkcontribs)
Added as in the information provided? We should probably wait until is updated. There are no trailer links on any other movie pages, so that wouldn't be needed if that's what you meant. Ryuartyi 04:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


Ash and friends arrive in a town called Michiina to see its landmark ancient ruins. Next to some of the ruins is a beautiful lake. Suddenly, a wave emerges and chases our heroes, forming into a water funnel that surrounds and engulfs them. From within, a girl's voice yells, "Dialga, I beg you!" Dialga appears. [The summary doesn't say what happens to Dialga, but it implies that the funnel dissipates, which means Dialga probably leaves.]
The girl is named Sheena and she protects the ruins. She can also read the hearts of Pokemon. She invites Ash and friends to the ruins and explains to them a "Time and Space Law" and how Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina relate to this law. She also talks about an old myth of Michiina. The myth states that Arceus created all things and in the ancient past saved all Pokemon from a meteor...

--Shiny Noctowl 13:19, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Someone has got to add the summary. J-J-M 13:00, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Summary copy-pasted of Pokébeach. Do not add.--Mew a.k.a. Prmatt11 at 23:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Serebii got better summary than that. We better add summary translated by our official Japanese text translator. Ҝəυzø8 05:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Oh god please don't give me more work D: (unless it's like, actual text you can copy and paste, it makes things about 20 times faster...)—Loveはドコ? (talk contribs) 05:32, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Something i just noticed about Giratina

Take a look at these two screens from one of the trailers: screen 1, screen 2. Notice something? Giratina is in its Original Forme. Since it's doesn't look to be in the reverse world in that scene, it must've either obtained the Griseous Orb, or the anime has come up with some other new explanation that goes against the games (witch they tend to do sometimes) Morgil27 19:22, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

It might be part of Arceus's destruction of the dimensions! Anyway, don't take it seriously, it's just a trailer, which may not appear at all. And besides, that trailer is under 2008 (Giratina and the Sky Warrior), so that scene doesn't matter coz' it may not be part of the actual movie. Kevzo8 06:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

So, should we create an Article for Movie Arceus?

I'm asking because he's playing an important role in the movie, and besides which, we have already found out a lot about him in regards to the manga of that movie. Besides, if we can create articles for Damos, Gishin, and others despite not knowing too much of them at the time, whose to say that we can't let Movie Arceus have an article? Weedle Mchairybug 11:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

It should have an article, definitely. Question is who's going to make it. J-J-M 11:23, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
TTE protected it from being created, thus, only admin can do. Kevzo8 11:25, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Like I said, question is who's going to make it. None of us, I bet. J-J-M 11:36, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Even if it'll be created, it will be protected for ages. So, I think that's hopeless. --Maxim 11:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Just like with everything else movie related that has been protected in the last year, it's so we don't constantly change the page every time something little comes up that was wrong. Just wait untill the movie actually shows. The article will eventually be made like all of the others. R.A. Hunter B. 16:51, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, I'm more than willing to wait for it. The problem is, people have already created Damos' and Gishin's articles from the day they were announced, so in order for it to make sense, we may need to make Arceus' article. Weedle Mchairybug 19:48, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, I didn't even bother checking for those pages, but oh well. I still say we should wait. And if not, then have a page made and get it protected right away so we don't have way too many edits happening all the time. R.A. Hunter B. 20:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

The twelfth Pokémon Pokémon movie?

This makes no sense. TorchicBlaziken (talkedits) 14:25, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Movie summary from Pokébeach

Among other things;

Frugali 10:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

SPOILER ALERT: PIKACHU DIES. TTEchidna 00:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
ANOTHER SPOILER ALERT: PIKACHU COMES BACK!!!! :D--Tavisource 00:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
SO DID ASH, BUT SO WHAT? TTEchidna 00:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

What do you think about this?

Should the text that says "it is coincidentally or whatever it is, premiered on the 11th anniversary of the first film", anyways should stay where it is or be moved to trivia?--Midnight Blue 05:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Arceus and the Jewel of Life

Who said that'd be the English name? --CUBONE (Planet CuboneBone Club) PWNS 16:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

PokéBeach. --Shiny Noctowl 17:41, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
I think it should be left at the actual Japanese translation title until we have more sources. Pokébeach has been wrong on several occasions. –MasterKenobi 18:33, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
I like the way you think, MasterKenobi. I'm moving this back. Unless... anyone else? --CUBONE (Planet CuboneBone Club) PWNS 18:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. On top of that all the redirects would need to be relinked. –MasterKenobi 18:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Wait till a more offical source says this kind of thing, Noctowl. --CUBONE (Planet CuboneBone Club) PWNS 19:25, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Furthermore, the original source of this title is from Switzerland. That title might not have been drafted by TPCI, and even if it was, it could be a working title and not a finalized title. We should probably wait for an official American announcement before making any page moves. --Shiningpikablu252 19:35, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
It's said out loud in the end of the trailer (the first video), so I'd say we should use the new given name. We can move it afterwards if they decide to change the dub name later. I'd say the trailer is official content. UltimateSephiroth (about me · chat · edits) 19:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
I have one question, was there anything about TPCI there?--Midnight Blue 21:19, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
No, no mention of TPCI is made in the alleged "official announcement". The English voiceover might have been done by a native of Switzerland. As far as we can tell, "Arceus and the Jewel of Life" is merely a title used at the film festival in question and, while redirectworthy, is in no way the final English title. We really should wait until there's a real official announcement courtesy of TPCI themselves. --Shiningpikablu252 21:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Yea i agree, it might of been a translation error but very unlikely, the title will maybe be announced official by the end of this year.--Midnight Blue 22:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

There were people from Nintendo there, so they clearly endorse it. In fact, it would have been illegal for them to play the subbed trailer without the consent of Nintendo. Therefore, the trailer's content can be considered official because it is licensed/endorsed/whatever by Nintendo. --Shiny Noctowl 22:05, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Staff of the dub? From what I could tell, there were only Japanese staff there...--Shiningpikablu252 22:06, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
If it wasn't the official English title, Nintendo wouldn't have let the festival call it that in the English subtitles. --Shiny Noctowl 22:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Have you ever heard of a "working title"? A working title is a title that is not finalized. And based on the evidence, "Arceus and the Jewel of Life" is a working title, and yet you're insisting that it's the final title simply because it was said in English. For all we know, "Giratina and the Sky Warrior", "The Rise of Darkrai", "Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea", and so on and so forth had different titles earlier on in the English production. --Shiningpikablu252 22:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Even if it's a working title, the page should be moved to that until the final title is revealed, since a working English title is preferable to the final Japanese title on an English wiki. --Shiny Noctowl 22:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Official titles are preferable and I doubt TPCI have come up with one yet. --FabuVinny |Talk Page| 02:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Since this is an English wiki, the English title is preferable to the Japanese title. --Shiny Noctowl 13:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Only if we have an official English title. This... doesn't feel official. And besides, we are not allowed to do anything until the movie airs in the US. --FabuVinny |Talk Page| 16:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I actually think the page should be protected. --CuboneKing 23:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
It already is. --Shiningpikablu252 23:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
My bad. --CuboneKing 23:32, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Heracross and Beautifly

Shouldn't the Heracross and Beautifly listed among the Pokémon appearing in the movie be allocated to Kanta and Kako? I'd do it myself, but as the page is protected... Watchermark 22:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Done. Cheers. —darklordtrom 22:20, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Title Confirmed

Poké confirms "Arceus and the Jewel of Life" and has an English poster. --The Great Butler 00:02, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok did someone change it?--Midnight Blue 00:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Since the title's confirmed, could someone unprotect it? J-J-M 18:31, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Sure, let's try that. —darklordtrom 20:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)



~m190049~talk 04:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

A higher resolution copy would be prefered. —darklordtrom 21:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, that's all gave us... ~m190049~talk 22:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
There are these but they're just stretched and pixelated current stretched stretch more --Coololz352 23:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Where are the Johto Starters?

Okay, so it's been in the news for months that Chikorita, Totodile, and Cyndaquil are going to appear in the movie. However, in the synopsis and trailers, they are nowhere to be seen. Are they in the real movie, or is there a Pikachu short that they appeared in? In other words, exactly where are they? - unsigned comment from Skulblaka Shurtugal (talkcontribs)

Chikorita and Cyndaquil help Gishin's soldiers prepare food according to this article. Turtwig A Contributions button_sig.pngTalk 21:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Spiky Eared Pichu Cover-Up

If you check the Movie Poster on right now, you'd notice that Pichu has been removed. And now they're advertising this "mysterious Pokemon" that we know is the Spiky Eared Pichu. It's an interesting bit of trivia, I guess.--Purimpopoie 01:34, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

US Realease date REVEALED !!!

Hey guys, Pokémon Movie 12 - Arceus and the Jewel of Life is going to release in 2009 (this year), officially confirmed by . I want to edit this page but it is protected (Locked) by admins ( The dark lord trombonator ). So admins please change the US release year and replace SPRING 2010 with 2009 (End of the year). You can check it out yourself, here is the link . Read the full mail bag. --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 05:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Uh, not really. The mailbag guy thinks it'll air this year... I think we should hold out for something more concrete before it's changed. ZestyCactus 05:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
"Actually, we don't just think, we know", are you just about that? Myles (talk - contrib) 05:26, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Zesty Cactus, read the full sentence "Actually, we don't just think, we know". Now tell me what does that mean? --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 06:09, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
What do you think it means when an official from The Pokémon Company International says:"Actually, we don't just think, we know." Duh. If they said that about Heartgold and Soulsilver, everyone would be all over it. ZestyCactus, it means that it's confirmed. It's obvious. alec9 * - * 17:02, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

A theatrical release?

Okay, so if the US premier of Arceus and the Jewel of Life is late 2009, and its DVD release is Spring 2010, then why is that? Does that mean that there is going to be a 3-month hiatus between the TV premier and the DVD, or that the movie will be released theatrically in the US as well? After all, there is usually a 3- to 5-month break between a movie and its DVD. Please correct me if I am wrong. - unsigned comment from Skulblaka Shurtugal (talkcontribs)

I doubt it'll get a theatrical release, the difference is probably either a discrepancy in when the movie's gonna come out, or there's gonna be a couple months' gap between the TV premiere and the DVD release. ZestyCactus 20:55, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
It was like that with Giratina and the Sky Warrior too. I remember watching it on Cartoon Network when it first premiered, and then the DVD came out a month or so after:

Premiere: Japan July 19, 2008

United States February 13, 2009

Home video: Japan December 19, 2008

United States March 31, 2009

It was actually released in Japanese on DVD months after it was released in English, considering the time inbetween premiere and DVD. R.A. Hunter Blade 21:07, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The Rise of Darkrai was aired in February 2008, and the DVD came out in May 2008. --HoennMaster 04:36, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Would this be bad to do?

Just to protect the page just for a week? In case people add in false dub names. Or anything else?--Midnight Blue 00:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Australian premire :D

This is a Bulbanews article about it and it say it will air at 6pm Australian edst and the 6 nov 2009 (HOORAY)is it worth mentioning? :)Booker :) 09:14, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. Somewhere. I'll find a place. —darklordtrom 09:04, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

thx for that and the other help too :D Booker :) 09:09, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

The guy is right. I think it should be placed in the "released date box". If anybody wants citation proof then here it is . This is the offcial schedule of CN Austrailia and it clearly shows that Pokemon Movie 12 is going to air on 6th November (Friday). --♫♪Adyniz♪♫ 13:30, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
One problem though, is that for some strange reason the template thinks (if a template can truly think) that ratings outside of Japan and the US are more important than their premiere dates. Myles (talk - contrib)

I need your opinion.

The movie poster is the only poster so far to have the same pokémon on it, Arceus. It just caught my eye. I know it sounds silly.--Midnight Blue 03:56, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Protect on the 6th

Maybe you guys should protect this page on the 6th. Once the mpvie airs in Australia, it will obviously make it's way to the internet and then from there, this page will go chaos with people editing. - Vhayes1992 01:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

'pedia's gonna be closed for editing then anyway. If the maintenance is completed early, and the page goes spastic, we'll close it then and not before. I'm not one to stand in the way of good-faith contributors. —darklordtrom 05:30, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me?

Or at some part of the movie when Spiky-Ear Pichu is talking it says Pikachu? Ugoz 00:27, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

no - Vhayes1992 01:07, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Pikachu dies? Really?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that any of Ash and co. actually die in the movie, they simply begin phasing back out of time a la Back to the Future. Standard fair for any time travel movie really, so I don't know why anyone assumed that they had been dying during the whole sequence. The point of the whole thing was that Arceus was the one to die, therefore removing their reason for having come back to begin with, thus they started to phase back to their own time to merge the divergent timelines.- unsigned comment from Nonasuomi (talkcontribs)

I don't want to be picky about it.

Does Pikachu die in the movie or no? B/c the summary says that the future will not exist and they will not exist too. So it is also implying that everyone was "dying". I want to get things straight. B/c the English dub did not really mention them dying expect Arceus.--Midnight Blue 07:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Not existing like in the movie due to the effects of time travel is not really the same as dying. tc²₆tc26 07:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
This is not dying, beleive me. - Vhayes1992 18:05, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Big talk

Should this be archived? I'm getting that notice saying it's really big... CuboneKing (Planet CuboneBone Club) 03:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's getting too big.--Midnight Blue 04:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)