User talk:Boblers

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Shuffle Update

Major update just arrived on the eShop for Shuffle. Heard that it's adding the ability to save teams among other things. I'm looking up the information on this myself, but wanted to point it out in case you weren't yet aware. CycloneGU (talk) 01:43, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the heads up! I've gone ahead and added all the info I could find. However, due to Miiverse's closure I can't get a screenshot of the new title screen. Do you know anyone who could add that to the page?
Additionally, it seems like some skill descriptions were changed and new skills were added, but I'm waiting on more info about that. Boblers (talk) 09:03, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
It looks like that was pulled overnight. I usually hang around in a Discord server where I get information, and usually ut's that same information that gets onto Reddit at some point, so I use it as a means to check anything before putting it here if I don't get it myself directly. What interests me is this new ranking system; they waited until all but 7 Pokémon were out to do this? LOL The knowledge that the other Celebration Pikachu will be in line with the already-released ones is cool as well, as now everyone gets one chance each year to get every single one; I'm not sure if we should put them all on the list yet (I've placed the Lion Dancer because the image is in the game now), but at least we know when the others will be coming and can update accordingly. I'll edit them in hidden later. CycloneGU (talk) 16:51, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Just to clarify on my note on the "erroneous" count in 1.5.0, I meant to say that the count changes to its proper value when you update to 1.5.1. In my case, it said my count was 758 in 1.5.0, but once I updated to 1.5.1 it said my count was 769. I definitely didn't catch 11 Pokémon with new list numbers in that time, so it was most likely an error with the count. A notice that pops up when up when on 1.5.0 also says that some data won't display correctly unless the game is updated to 1.5.1, so I assume it was referring to this. Boblers (talk) 19:54, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Just tossing it out there, this Reddit thread appears to corroborate Boblers' interpretation, and this comment seems to give an explanation for why it happens (although I'm not sure whether that user is just speculating or knows for sure). Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 21:00, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
I got the 1.5.1 after finishing the update myself (I'm trying to remember the timing, I think I made that edit before doing my own update) and found that my 585 count (I took my time on the mains and have a lot to do there, don't jodge LOL) moved up to 600 with the later patch. I was bemused by this myself and am curious, since the rank system only counts unique species, which 15 were not counted before. I might have to curiously scan through my entire list to see what's going on there myself. CycloneGU (talk) 23:19, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
I'm also behind in main stages. The furthest one I've unlocked is 607, so the 11 extra count that I got from 1.5.1 must all be from events. I've been curious as well about this "update gap", and by my logic I think we can place the "rollback point" at 1.4.27 or 1.4.28.
Since stages 621-640 were added in 1.4.26, the update that we "rolled back" to must've been between 1.4.26 and now. From that version to today, the newly-released Pokémon from events were:
  • (1.4.27) Dhelmise, Gengar (Shiny), Palossand, Xurkitree, Pikachu (Celebration: Artist),
  • (1.4.29) Necrozma,
  • (1.4.31) Froakie (Winking), Ribombee, Celesteela, Gardevoir (Shiny), Fennekin (Winking), Toxapex, Flabebe (Winking), Floette (Winking), Snubbull (Winking), Cutiefly, Morelull, Shiinotic,
  • (1.4.33) Pikachu (Celebration: Mushroom Harvest),
  • (1.4.34) Chespin (Winking), Bewear, Charizard (Shiny),
  • (1.4.35) Granbull (Winking), Pikachu (Celebration: Year's End), Kommo-o, Guzzlord, Cherubi (Winking), Cherrim (Winking), Hoppip (Winking), Skiploom (Winking), Jumpluff (Winking), Sandygast, Jangmo-o, Hakamo-o, and Minior.
If we ignore variants (note: I already have the normal forms of all these variant pokemon already), the total count of new species is 17: Dhelmise, Palossand, Xurkitree, Necrozma, Ribombee, Celesteela, Toxapex, Cutiefly, Morelull, Shiinotic, Bewear, Kommo-o, Guzzlord, Sandygast, Jangmo-o, Hakamo-o, and Minior. That's a little too many compared to my 11. Something to note is that all ultra beasts have been assigned list numbers and appeared as silhouettes in the Pokémon list ever since Nihilego released, so I don't see why the game would have trouble counting them should you obtain them. I have a hunch that a lack of an assigned list number may be the main factor as to whether a Pokémon can be counted, since technically all Pokémon (disregarding USUM and some forms) already exist deep in the game's data, just not all have been added to the visible Pokémon list.
So, if we ignore the ultra beasts then our count is now 14. Note that Sandygast and Palossand had been assigned list numbers by 1.4.26, so we can ignore those to get down to 12. We just need to drop one more, and since Dhelmise is the only one left in 1.4.27 that we haven't eliminated, we can take him out to get 11. This places the rollback point either on 1.4.27 or on 1.4.28, since the next new species was added in 1.4.29.
As for the 4-Pokémon discrepancy between my count and yours, it's likely because normal Hoppip and Skiploom are only in main stages 530+, which you say you haven't unlocked, and Jumpluff is an EX stage that requires 530 S-ranks. I'm unsure about the last one of the four, but perhaps there's another Pokémon that you don't have the normal form of, but that you got the winking form of recently? Boblers (talk) 20:52, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
I thought Winking Granbull and Winking Snubbull might be related, too, but noticed upon review that they're way back in Pedra Valley (Granbull is 184), and I know I have that area 100% save maybe the odd S rank. So that's not it.
I'll give a review of all of the new data added. I'm curious how I got to 15 missing. I know Minior, Kommo-o, Hakamo-o, Jangmo-o, Bewear (not Stufful yet), Toxapex (not Mareanie, out next week), Shiinotic (Safari), Morelull (Safari), Ribombee, Cutiefly (another Safari), Necrozma (hated this stage), Palossand, and Sandygast (Safari again!) add up to 13. I agree that Hoppip and Skiploom, as winkers, would make 15 for me, but Jumpluff makes it 16. I do recall data being added leaving numbers skipped at points, so the question is where this rollback went to. I didn't think of checking my Dex before checking in to 1.5.1 myself, so I can only make an educated guess myself. Based on my count, however, it's possible Dhelmise was there already (October 24) and Palossand, being the oldest on my list of 16 (October 31) was also there, bringing us to October 31 version being where 1.5.0 rolled back to. November 7 at Reddit lists no Dex new content added to the game, meaning that was still based on the October 31 version. November 14 put in Necrozma. I would suggest that's our backup point.that's our backup point from which 1.5.1 resumed to get the 12 newly added species, and you can go through November 28 to confirm a beefy addition including 5 winkers, Shiny Gardevoir, and a number of new species in my list of 15.
Let's complicate things now.
  • Empoleon was finally actually released see here on December 12. It doesn't affect me, since I'm not at the point where I can catch it yet (stage 660); however, it might factor into your count if you're there unless the Pokémon itself was in the gae before with placeholder data (in which case the catch might have still registered as placeholder data for those with it). Did you also include Wooper and Quagsire? They were brand new in that update, not even in the data; if you had them caught, they would have been gone in 1.5.0 possibly.
  • December 26 was another beefy addition, and this is where winking versions of Cherrim and Cherubi first came along. Being in the 500s, I didn't catch these before, but I've caught the new ones.
If you've been adding these complications, you'll note the December update gave me nothing different, but the January update adds 2 winkers that might not have been in the 1.5.0 data. Joy! This means I have to assume Necrozma, the oldest of those found in my list, WAS IN THE GAME and counted by 1.5.0, leaving me 16 new species to count instead of 15. Cutiefly, next in the Dex, was in a December 5 Safari, so we have to find something in the list in November, preferably before the 28th. I could harbour a guess that Ribombee on November 28 is that last one to assume already caught. However, Celesteela was in the same update, and had a silhouette before. I'm could assume November 28 did not count. Celesteela was, however, "added" to the game on November 28th. Does game data exist before then? The threads are not clear, and GS has held numbers for Pokémon before (look at the Sinnoh and Unova starters). If Guzzlord and Celesteela both had silhouettes, and thus RESERVED DATA, before November 28, then that removes 2 from the 16 and forces Ribombee back in. Therefore, I think the answer is that the rollback went to 1.4.30, from November 21. There's one problem. There were no new 'Mons on the 21st to test with. So it might have been 1.4.29 instead, and we'll never know, nor is there any way to figure it out. Therefore, we can say that 1.5.0 didn't count any new species added since 1.4.31 on November 28 added Ribombee, and that 1.5.1 readded all affected catch data. CycloneGU (talk) 21:59, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Shuffle Cycle

I've been discussing this behind the scenes. What are your thoughts of moving things to pages like Escalation Battle and Competitive Stage already are? Some don't really deserve their own page, though they might anyway just to provide separation. Putting this entire cycle on one page is going to be a painful experience, but we are considering publishing everything at once over revealing it a week at a time since we have a chart showing everything (assuming no errors). Still lots of new stages in there, too, to make notes of. The nice thing is we can reuse a lot of the stage data in our cycle charts, and I'm considering whether we should try setting up something to show what week it is on the cycle page somewhere so we can list weeks over dates, though this might be more complicated. CycloneGU (talk) 03:37, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Splitting the Special Stages into several different pages sounds like a great idea, actually. The page itself has gotten really bloated in some parts - Safaris, for example - plus that navigation template on the bottom of the page would fit well with splitting everything up. I say we should do it.
What's the current plan for displaying all of the cycle schedule's information? I'm thinking we could replicate that chart you have and use it as a hub page, with each Pokémon displayed as an icon with its name underneath it. Each of the subpages that we split off from Special Stages could then have a section at the bottom just for cycle events. From there, we could have the icons of each Pokémon on the hub page link to the appropriate subpage for more info on that Pokémon's stage.
For displaying the current week, I think we could do that with something similar to the automatic day counters on this article. The "since Japanese airing" counters seem to auto-update every day, so perhaps we could get a similar counter to update every week and wrap around when it passes week 24. If possible, maybe we can also take it a step further and set the hub cycle chart to automatically highlight the applicable cells for the current week, so we can tell what events are active at a glance.--Boblers (talk) 07:38, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm not decided on the final layout yet. For a start, we still have to include the stage information for each stage. We could possibly expand it over time to show the disruptions on stages and such, though then we might have to do the same for main stages too. However, a weekly layout could also be an option, showing what's available each week. So I'm still debating this. What I do know is I want to make the transition to the new page be as seamless as possible. The existing page must stay at Special Stages and the history thus with it (so it's not lost when everything moves to new locations) and thus the new page must replace it. I'm open to ideas on the final format and making it as seamless as possible. CycloneGU (talk) 07:43, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Wait, so now we don't want to split the page? I'm a bit confused.
If we want to keep everything on the Special Stages page with minimal major edits, one option would be to add the event cycle in its own section with 24 subsections, 1 for each week (your weekly layout, basically). This would probably end up about the size of the Safari section. We could then treat it like the Great Dailies section, where any stages that happen on a particular cycle week have "Appears in cycle week X" in the notes cell. For new stages that occur only in the cycle, like Marshadow, we could list "cycle week X" in their availability cell.
From there, each week section could have a table of the relevant stages with all of their stage info. Escalations and Competitions would have a link to go to their pages/reward charts instead of listing their info here.
This strategy avoids losing the edit history, and doesn't disturb the current layout very much. However, it will make the page quite a bit bigger.--Boblers (talk) 09:05, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Sorry if I was confusing. I meant to say the information would still need to stay here while we transition the page, so it might be an idea to plan out the first week or two of the table in advance and then quickly add from there (since the basics of each table will be the same, the only differences being whether it's a competition week or whether an RML stage is present, and sometimes GC will omit the 300 coin fee stage or the 2 Heart stage). Once we start inputting that, all of the data from this page will start flowing into that listing in some way. Since the stage info for MANY special stages will be the same (when I said stage data myst still be available, I meant the HP, move number, time limit, catch odds, etc.), we can just create new tables in that and move the correct lines into them.
One thing that I know does not change at all is the Daily Pokémon. All 13 sets appear as well as a Spooky Daily set (there were five Spooky variants released in Pikachu, Gengar, Sableye, Pumpkaboo, and Gourgeist that likely make that up, and I have to find the order to publish that). One of the 13 sets, the Holiday one, only appears in December. I've learned both it and the Spooky appear in their two week stints along with whatever other Daily is going on, meaning two sets of Dailies for those four weeks. The actual Dailies themselves are completely unchanged, and I wonder if they could be left in, or whether it might be better to move the historical appearance info to its own page like the others. Of course, if we go with the weekly layout, it might make more sense to do that. If we stick with the game type layout, then perhaps that doesn't have to move at all. Other types of stages generally will have to, such as One Chance a Day. There's also the possibility with Great Challenge stages that the historical information may still appear on the cycle page too. I'm heavily debating this, but for simplicity purposes, it might be better not to. The Safaris HAVE to move; look at March 13, May 22, and July 17 for exaples of how they were shuffled among each other. Some of the 'Mons in the Safaris have regular availability now, and some appeared in multiple Safaris, so they pretty much had to remix them to get 10 in each Safari. I also was thinking of a week indicator at the top, under all of the initial prose, that updates every Tuesday at 1 a.m. ET (6 a.m. GMT I believe), and with a weekly layout that's better than looking for highlighting in tables as the top will just say "Current Week: Week 6" and users can just click on Week 6 for information.
This I'm still going to discuss, but we have a lot to add in the meantime. We have EVERYTHING capable of RMLs now, 5 minimum (literally everything I've caught can take them, I'm finding). If the list that is available doesn't include it and it's currently at 0, it should be made a 5 in pretty much all cases. Some 0 go straight to 10, 15, etc. as the table indicates, but otherwise they go to 5. I'll evaluate this further. Meanwhile, there are a few new skills added; 49 Pokémon get new skills. We have to add Bruxish and Marshadow to the list (Yungoos and Gumshoos are 799-800, already out, too), as well as any of the new Shiny or Winking variant Pokémon that are in the cycle. And after that, it looks like the list will be in its absolute final status. So I'll take a look at this in bits and pieces and verify everything we list against what's in my game for any errors once it's done. Except the 100 or so I haven't caught yet. Once I have everything, I can give the entire list one final wholesale look and know it's accurate, then there's nothing else to do on it. LOL CycloneGU (talk) 16:35, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Any updates on the plans for the cycle? Most of the bookkeeping you mentioned seems to be done now.
Also, on the subject of bookkeeping, what should we do about documenting the UX stages? Initially I thought they were just repeats of main stages with 3x HP, but some stages actually have less HP than that, puzzle stages haven't changed their original HP at all, HP sometimes differs between 3DS and Mobile, and several disruption behaviors have been changed, according to this reddit post. Would it be enough to just add "UX HP" columns to the existing charts on the main stage pages? Or are these changes significant enough for new charts? --Boblers (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I'm still a mile away from playing any UX stages, so I have no idea on those yet. I need to look at the data for those.
I've been super occupied with things lately, so haven't been looking at the cycle for a week or two, even playing a lot less (I'm on Latios Lv.27 ATM LOL). I have just been catching what I need to catch and not even coin grinding. I should try to take care of some grinding this weekend, and maybe get a setup for the template done. Since it's all a permanent cycle I haven't really rushed it, but new stage info is understandably not available while I do nothing. If you want to start something in your userspace, I can perhaps join in, or you can let me set up an idea for a general week and go from there. CycloneGU (talk) 01:02, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Hey, it's been a while since we last discussed this (more than 6 months, but I think my reason to revive this is legitimate). I've found the time to make a mockup of the cycle page in my userspace, using the 1-section-per-week model. Shortly after making it I found some potential issues, mostly due to the event types not perfectly meshing with one another. Some events span 2 weeks instead of one, which risks duplication or bloat; several events use unique mechanics that need their own table column (e.g. Safari spawn percentages), but then large chunks of the tables end up null/empty, etc. I've outlined those issues in detail at the top of the mockup page. Please let me know what you think. Boblers (talk) 06:50, 7 October 2018 (UTC)