Talk:Ash's Raticate

Why?

Okay, articles for Haunter and Larvitar, who are in more than one episode, I understand. I also understand "Ash's Beedrill", as it redirects to Casey's Bedrill. But why on earth does this Pokemon, who should be mentioned nearly wholy in Butterfree's article, get his own? Is it more signifigant than 'Max's Jirachi' or 'May's Manaphy'? Or how ab out 'Jessie's Charizard', another Pokemon that they own for less than an entire episode?--PikamasterADV 16:42, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Because it was traded to Ash, and it was actually a Pokémon that belonged to him. May's Manaphy is now called Manaphy (anime), and Jessie's Charizard actually belonged to her, albeit for a short amount of time. --PAK Man 21:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I just singled out Manaphy because it was the best example I could come up with. THEN I thought of Charizard. The thing about it is Jessie's Charizard DOES NOT HAVE IT'S OWN PAGE! I'm wondering what makes a Charizard that was owned for less an episode less signifigant than a Raticate that was owned for less than an episode. - unsigned comment from PikamasterADV (talk • contribs)

Nothing, really. It's just that no one's made an article for Jessie's Charizard yet. --Pie 23:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Then is someone gonna go make a Jirachi (anime) page as well? - unsigned comment from PikamasterADV (talk • contribs)

No reason why they couldn't. The main reason why anyone doesn't would be the lack of motivation. --Pie 00:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Offtopic, but that Unsigned thing is cool! I was worried that I might have had to come back and add my name to the end of those.--PikamasterADV 00:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be at Gentleman's Raticate, with a redirect from Ash's Raticate? Yamikuronue 17:09, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

This Raticate is only significant because Ash owned it for a while. Naming conventions get a little complex with articles like this but a general rule of thumb is that Pokémon who transfer ownership from a main character to a minor character are placed under the main character's name. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 22:06, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jump Kick?

I don't know about the dub, but in the original Japanese version, the Gentlemen clearly says "Tobigeri" (Jump Kick) when Raticate does the move. Was this changed in the dub or should it be changed? Either way, it is worth noting that both are unable to be learned by Raticate. --Jda95 03:34, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I watched the dub myself, and unless my hearing is crap, he definitely said "Hi Jump Kick". In any case, I'll make a note on the page of the Jump Kick thing. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 21:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok..

For the old post's examples listed above, this should NOT have it's own article. This Raticate isn't even a major recurring Pokémon at all, and other than the fact Ash temporarily had it, it shouldn't just have it's own article like this. No other Pokémon similar to this Raticate get their own article either, so why is Raticate so very different from the rest? Other one time Pokémon get articles because they're movie characters, so that really can't be an excuse for Raticate to get it's own article either. It just doesn't make too much sense at all.... Shiramu Kuromu 21:09, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Ash still owned it, however briefly. And it was pretty much what started up the plot for the following episode: when Ash traded back, he dropped Butterfree's Pokeball and had to chase it, preventing him from escaping the ship. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 21:11, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, BRIEFLY. Same thing about Larvitar as well, but Larvitar on the other hand deserves it's article because it appears in more than 1 episode. Unlike Larvitar, Raticate stays in this single episode the entire series. Shiramu Kuromu 21:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Point 1, second sentence. —darklordtrom 03:17, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Name

All other Pokemon who have been traded have taken up the name on the wiki as "<Current Trainer's> Pokemon". Why doesn't this follow the same pattern and be "Gentleman's Raticate"? ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 21:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

That's not necessarily true. When the character who currently owns the Pokémon is so unimportant, it will go to the main character. Otherwise it would be Suzy's Vulpix and Benny's Lickitung. --ケンジのガール 22:24, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Then I feel that they should be moved. After looking at the Jump Kick (move) page, it says "A Gentleman's Raticate" while linking to "Ash's Raticate". I feel that all three pages should be moved. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 15:57, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think so, people don't generally look up "Benny's Lickitung" or simmilar. I think it's fine where it is. --Pokemaster97 19:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

List

"Raticate is the only one in the list above not captured in a contest." It's not a list. It should be something like "Raticate is the only one of the three not captured in a contest." No one on the corner got swagga like Mpcamel1729...modified from Paper Planes by M.I.A. 04:11, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Wait a minute.

So let me get this straight. Ash's Raticate is noteworthy enough to have its own article and James's Gyarados is not? I'm sorry but I don't understand how that works.

Personally I don't think Ash's Raticate is noteworthy enough to have its own page. I mean what can you possibly say about it that you can't say on Ash's page or on the episode's page? I think the paragraph is short enough to fit on either page, but not enough for its own article.

I do think that James's Gyarados is more noteworthy. At least that Pokémon was for more than one episode. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 20:41, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I noticed that there are similar discussions above, and let me just say this. This Raticate had absolutely NO impact on the plot. Everything that happened on that ship would have happened regardless if Ash got that Raticate or not. If the Raticate did have a big impact on the plot, how? Other than the fact that it's the first traded Pokémon I don't see it. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 20:44, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Not Notable

I know this has been brought up before, but I don't believe this Pokémon is notable enough to have its own page. I think it should be redirected to Ash's page. I don't believe the fact that Ash owned it is enough to give it an episode. There are plenty of other Pokémon he has owned for less than an episode that don't have pages, so I believe that this one shouldn't either. Pokemon champ (talk) 03:35, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree with this. Raticate is explained entirely on Ash's Butterfree's page. Everything you really need to know about Raticate is on that page.Oliver-and-polar (talk) 18:26, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

It had an impact on the plot. It had an impact on Ash. Ash saw it battling, was impressed by it and was willing to trade a Pokémon for it. Afterwards, when Ash called out Raticate, it made Ash realize his mistake. And because he wanted to trade back Raticate, he was trapped in the sinking ship. There, three plot points were Raticate contributed.--ForceFire 01:11, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Notability

The only one of those plot points that Raticate contributed was the first. The second and third have nothing to do with Raticate, they were caused by Butterfree. Ash did not get stuck on the ship because he wanted rid of Raticate, he got stuck on the ship because he wanted Butterfree back. Furthermore, most of this page doesn't even focus on Raticate - almost the entire second paragraph of Raticate's history talks mostly about Ash, Brock, and Butterfree ("Afterwards, the Gentleman came to tell Ash that he was so impressed with Butterfree that he wanted him to trade it for his Raticate." is partially Raticate-related, but mostly about Butterfree. "Ash, although being impressed of Raticate's strength too, was uncertain of what to do, and asked Brock for advice." is the closest thing to being Raticate centric, but still is about Ash's uncertainty about getting rid of Butterfree. "Brock told Ash to agree to trade, although given the fact that he was infatuated by the Gentleman's beautiful woman companion at the moment, he likely wasn't even fully paying attention to what they were talking about." Completely about Brock, the Raticate isn't mentioned at all. "Thus the trade was made, making Raticate Ash's newest Pokémon." the only sentence that is undeniably Raticate centric. "Later Ash told Misty about how he was still uncertain if the Gentleman would take care of Butterfree the way he did, and was thinking if he even did the right thing by trading it away." Raticate is, once more, not mentioned at all.)

The personality section also proves why Raticate should not have a page - it flat out says that Raticate is not different from other Raticate, except for a single move.

I also think this goes against the notability policies - "Pokémon that are owned by Ash, Misty, Brock, Tracey, May, Max, Dawn, Iris, Cilan, Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie are all notable, provided they appeared in more than one episode. If they did not, then they would have to have had a significant impact on the plot of the episode or the series as a whole." Raticate did not appear in more than one episode, and as I previously stated the only thing that Raticate did to the plot of the episode was battle vaguely impressively. The rest of it was entirely about Ash and Butterfree. Nutter Butter (talk) 03:06, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Raticate indirectly caused the events leading to Ash wanting Butterfree back, i.e realizing his mistake and wanting to trade it back. The second and third plot point revolve around BOTH Raticate and Butterfree.--ForceFire 03:40, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Which means it can be covered easily on Butterfree and the episode's page without having a completely unnecessary page for a Pokemon most people don't even know exists. Raticate's indirect effect on the plot does not merit a page, especially when there are other factors that affected the plot directly.

I'm still not convinced that Raticate was involved in Ash's decision, though. Raticate did nothing to make Ash change his mind - Ash still thinks of Raticate the same as he did before the trade was enacted as far as we're aware. What made Ash change his mind was the lack of Butterfree, not the presence of Raticate. Nutter Butter (talk) 15:43, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

An indirect effect on the plot is still having an impact on the plot, which fits the notability requirements. And it was both the lack of Butterfree (wanting it back) and the presence of Raticate (calling it out when he meant for Butterfree) that made Ash change his mind.--ForceFire 16:02, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I still disagree, and it seems that quite a few other people do as well, though since they're not chiming in now and I doubt it would accomplish anything if they did anyway, I'll leave it be. Nutter Butter (talk) 16:07, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Name 2

This page should be named Gentleman's Raticate. "Name" says that when a trainer is so unimportant it will go to the main character. THIS POKEMON IS UNIMPORTANT! It should just be a pokemon in ash's temporarily owned part. Anyway it just doesnt make sense. According to the info of this page, Ash's Butterfree was traded for Ash's Raticate. THAT DOESNT EVEN MAKE SENSE! We need to change it!!! - unsigned comment from Dictionary (talk • contribs)

As I've explained above, Raticate had an impact on the episode and had an impact on Ash. It is more notable than Seaking which literally did nothing.--ForceFire 03:57, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Notability 2021

Considering that some Goh Pokémon are unlikely to be notable for a page. Isn't it time to apply the same situation to this case here?I mean, Ash never used it in battle, it was never mentioned again, isn't it better to put all the necessary information on Ash's Temporary Pokémon page in an infobox??-Hikaru Wazana (talk) 03:21, 01 May 2021 (UTC)

Ash is not Goh. Both have different requirements for their Pokémon. Goh continues to catch Pokémon, most of which he'll never use, so not all of them can be notable. It's not the same situation as Ash's previous friends (or Ash himself) where any Pokémon they catch is notable for an article. As for Raticate, I've already explained multiple times on this talk page that Raticate had an impact on the episode, thus making it notable.--ForceFire 04:38, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Gentleman's Raticate

There's no reason not to change the name.--Rocket Grunt 13:53, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Users will most likely associate Raticate with Ash and not the gentleman, hence why it's under Ash's. We don't necessarily have to name Pokemon under their current owners if said current owners aren't important (for example Jessie's Lickitung is still under Jessie's name, not Benny's or Brock's Vulpix is still under Brock's name and not Suzy).--ForceFire 14:38, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

I, personally, feel like saying it's Ash's is an overstatement. It had it less than an episode.--Rocket Grunt 12:44, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Ash is still a more notable character than the Gentleman. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 14:42, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Just like he is more notable than Casey in case of Beedrill? We're talking who is more notable FOR this Pokemon.--Rocket Grunt 15:16, 3 May 2021 (UTC)