Talk:Lake guardians

Untitled

Why won't the links to Neptune and Jupiter work? The one for Minerva works. --Shiny Noctowl^{Talk | Fun} 01:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll take a look, but if I can't fix it, ask Zhen to. -Politoed666 01:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I got it. You accidentally used a colon instead of a | between wp and Jupiter or Neptune. -Politoed666 01:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Puddle shapes

M.vit added to this page that the three puddles are in the shapes of the dragon trio. I can sort of see Giratina in Uxie's cave, but Palkia and Dialga... I just don't see them. Does anyone believe this is true besides M.vit? There may be something to this, but I want to get everyone's opinion before I revert again. --Martonimos_((Talk))

On second thought, I will revert it, and we can add it later if we decide it's correct. Better to keep speculation off the pages and add facts later. --Martonimos_((Talk)) 07:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

In fact, I can't see anything.... All I see is A triangle in Uxie's Cavern, A Square in Both Azelf's and Mesprit's Cavern. Force Fire 09:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for the misunderstanding, the first puddle seen in the article is giratina, which has a shape like this for the second one, you can see dialga's face, with one of the dots acting as his eye, the third one looks like palkia's pearl mixed with his head.--M.vit 19:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Anyone else want to weigh in? Although now that you mention it, FF, I think that the third puddle actually looks more like a circle. They all have the weird lines coming out of them, though... --Martonimos_((Talk)) 21:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I can see it:

• Uxie's cave has Giratina's head.
• the 2nd one is dialaga's head
• the 3rd is palkia's head.

セーラー地球 09:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm.. I can see it, A little bit. Just can make up the picture Force Fire 09:22, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I can see Giratina and Dialga. Having trouble with Palkia though. I think this speculation, however, is correct. SixthFlyingMan 07:06, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Distance

I found out that each of the caves according to units on the town map (I.E the one that mention the cave and spear pillar and including girantinas lake) ar roughly 12 units away for each of them by the Pythagorean Theorem. Show anything? Atomix26 21:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Name...

I know I made up the name "lake trio" but I'm thinking that a better way to describe them would be legendary pixies. Plus, then they'd fit with the other three standard trios. TTEchidna 02:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

What standard? Beasts, birds, golems, dragons, fine, that's a standard...and then there's the weather trio. They don't have a standard, thus break any standard one would have. Everyone calls them the lake trio anyway. Besides being sprite-like (as in fae, not pixel), it's what they have in common that's the most blaringly obvious. Change 'lake' and you'd have to change 'weather'...and the only thing they have in common is the Bible. And we cannot call them that. Lake trio is fine. ...It's also shorter. You know how people in this fandom like their short hand. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 03:01, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I also do not see a problem with Lake Trio....I like it.

----HoennMaster 03:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I guess... I created the name, can't get people off it. I just wonder what happens when GSDS comes out and isn't called something that starts with GSDS... TTEchidna 05:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

The weather and dragon trios aren't the same as the lake trio, or the legendary birds/beasts/golems. Legendary Pixies would match better with the other three. I think TTE has the right idea. --((Marton imos)) 03:47, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't disagree with a namechange, but pixies? Can't we at least think of something better? Pixies is just..... odd. Too odd. — THE TROM — 07:20, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Lake Trio doesn't match with Dragon trio or Weather trio, since they have nothing to do with lakes. They are just found in them. I agree it should be renamed but I am not sure whether it should be "pixies". Jmath 07:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, OK. Other good options are fairies/faeries or sprites. I'm sure we can come up with plenty more. --((Marton imos)) 09:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Propose "legendary spirits". — THE TROM — 08:57, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

How about "Lake Guardians", seeing that's what they're collectively called in the anime, and no one else calls them anything else in canon media. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

They are referred to as "Lake Guardians" by Cynthia. ►Ҝəυzø8 04:28, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. --((Marton imos)) 06:55, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

By that, then Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres should be at Winged Mirages. TTEchidna 08:45, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Haven't they actually been called the legendary birds officially as well, though? Meanwhile Lake Guardians seems to be the only thing Azelf, Uxie and Mesprit have been called (I assume we're discounting "mirage Pokémon," since that's a Japanese generic term the English games decided to start using).--Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 01:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, only in DP096. In the previous episodes, they were referred individually. ►Ҝəυzø8 11:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

...so, are we going to move this, or what? ((Marton imos)) 20:10, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Everyone knows them as the Lake Trio now, I'd just leave the title as it is. Taromon777 20:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

On second thoughts... how about Mind Trio? Just an idea. Taromon777 20:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Both of the names sound good. I think that Lake Guardians makes them sound more "legendary". --Usyflad10 22:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Dude... notice the date before you comment on a page. This is from back in the first week of June. That was the fifth. This is the twenty-third. R.A. Hunter Blade 02:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

And in all that time, we haven't come to a conclusion. I think we should move the page. There's not a lot of dissent, and if there's an outcry afterwards, we can change it back. I don't have the power to do it myself, so... --((Marton imos)) 03:59, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with a shift to Lake Guardians. It doesn't just sound more "legendary" - it sounds less like fanon, and more like canon, because that's what it is. Satosuke 18:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Puddles

... What I WAS going to say in my edit summary was 'I'm not seeing it.. besides, it's just speculation, isn't it?'. I think a discussion'd be better than just going back and forth in an edit war, so.. um, how do these puddles resemble the DPPt mascots? Tina^♪♫ 21:50, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

The Uxie picture is clearly Giratina facing forward. The 2 puddles are eyes, Mesprit's puddle is Diala facing east, the top puddle is the eye, the bottom puddle is in its mouth, Azelf's puddle is Palkia facing west, top puddle is it's eye, bottom puddle is in its mouth. Quite a few people have seen it Super-Max 21:54, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

i think they actually do bear slight resemblances to the dragon trio. -- MAGNEDETH 21:56, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Hm. Now that you point it out, it does kinda look like the three dragons.. It'd be a little less vague if the page said which lake looked like which dragon, though. Tina^♪♫ 22:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Politoed666 is being an ass. Even though Deth (another admin) can see it, and the consensus on this page says they can see it, he has decided to over ride consensus and over ride another admin, and put his own views, instead of what the consensus is. Super-Max 22:04, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

No. They don't. Additionally, Max-o, I'm E.B., which means I technically win against all of you. However, if anyone else wants to weigh in, I may be persuaded to change my mind. --ニョロトノ666 22:05, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Why are you acting like a dictator, do you need glasses, it's clear which is which, are you saying this happened by accident, why then did the game makers make all the puddles different, and it's clear that the makers were thinking about these puddles, as they included a location of the other 2 lakes. The info has been on there for ages, and the majority can see it. Super-Max 22:08, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Come on, Politoed. You know, its true (not about the glasses thing)and its better to have that than absolutely nothing.--Clarky13 22:10, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't usually like getting involved in these arguments, as I don't feel I contribute enough to have a say, but when I saw these puddles in-game the first thing I though was that they looked like the dragons, so I have to agree with the majority here, the puddles do clearly resemble the dragongs. C R E S T ☆ 22:12, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Nice try Crest... Or should I say Super Max? The admins can see your IP address... --ケンジのガール 01:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Shut the hell up

Speculation like this has no place on Bulbapedia. Take it to the forums. Ketsuban 22:14, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's now 5-2, and we are arguing about how to improve the article, so it does belong on Bulbapedia, even 2 admins are involved in the argument, and can you talk to people with a bit more respect, we have a code of conduct page you know. Super-Max 22:17, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Ditto on the conduct thing. But in case you didn't know, Max, Ketsuban's an admin too...--freezingCOLD _{(page, talk)} 22:27, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Take it to the forums. Ketsuban 22:46, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

This page isn't just a speculation. ►Ҝəυzø8 08:03, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

She was talking about people seeing the Dragon trio in the puddle's shapes, not the page itself. --((Marton imos)) 08:23, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Ahh. I thought it was the article. SMax's answer made me confused. @_@ ►Ҝəυzø8 08:38, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Lake Guardians

Should the article be renamed with this? They were referred like this. J-J-M 14:08, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Capitalized or no? TTEchidna 05:15, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I guess it's better if it isn't capitalized. It would be consistent with the other pages. J-J-M 18:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Where were they referred to as Lake Guardians? I've not beat Platinum yet. -Smeargle 19:27, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

It's from the show. At least it's better than a fan-made term. J-J-M 21:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree. And could we call the Weather Trio "Superancient titans" or something like that? Or maybe call them a legendary duo with Rayquazza as the duo master? --エルレイド 04:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I like Lake Guardians better. YinYang 18:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Lake Guardians is official. The others aren't, but we should use this name, rather than a fan-name. Also, I could've sworn I saw it in Platinum as well. But it's been used in canon, so it's of higher worth than a fan-made terminology. Satosuke 18:44, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Ik it's move protected, but can't Admins Move pages the are move protect? If so, could some1 move it to Lake Gardians? _ShinyPika 01:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I never realised Lake Guardians was an official term! Maybe the article should be moved in that case. Taromon777 17:49, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree. It should be moved. We'll have to go through that torture we went through when Alternate coloration was moved to Shiny Pokémon, though. ^{I'm back!} Alpha CuboneKing 02:40, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be moved already? There's no point in continuing to keep a fan-made term. J-J-M 21:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello DP150. They called it, repeatedly, the lake trio. Thank you TPCI! Shall we move it back? TTEchidna 04:17, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Puddle Shapes

I just noticed something. Uxie has a circular head, Azelf has a triangular head, and Mesprit has four things on its head that, if spread out, would make an x shape. If you connect the points on an X, you get a square

...Didn't ANYBODY else see this? ~ Shadowater [April 11th, 2009, 9:46 PM GMT -7 (I don't know how to use the time stamp >.<)]

Just type four tildes (~~~~).—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 06:02, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

No, sorry, we were busy arguing about whether or not they're the Dragon Trio's heads.

This is an interesting theory, but I don't see it in Mesprit. It looks triangular, too. It's otherwise a neat pattern, though. --((Marton imos)) 20:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

A circle, a triangle and an X are the three symbols used for judging in the Set KO Tourney in Emerald aren't they? Taromon777 12:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Whereas I see no resemblance to the dragon trio, nor any significance to the overall shape of the puddles, I have noticed something about the dots in the puddles. In all three, there appears to be a sort of triforce made up of two dots and the respective Pokemon in the cave. However, the corner of the triangle in which the Pokemon appears is different between the three of them. Does this make sense or seem at all significant? - unsigned comment from Skaisdead (talk • contribs)

"As seen in the pictures below, the two circles in each of the Pokémon's caves are the relative positions of the other two, although the meaning of the shapes of the puddles is unknown." The positioning is based on the lakes' locations in Sinnoh. It's in the article already. —darklordtrom 23:10, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

the puddle of uxie looks like it is uxie when opening its eyes, mesprit puddle is like mesprit turning its head to the right. azelf's puddle takes a distorted image of its head. it might be spec but with concentration it could be seen as the heads of the lake trio.--Nobody777 12:21, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The puddles are used to show where the other to members would be. Take Mt Corenet. The three Members form a triangle, With Dia/Pal/Gira in the middle. The shapes of the puddles and the member form a triangle as well. At least, thats what i got out of it. _ShinyPika 19:28, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

After a week?

Can somebody clear this up? If you defeat one of them, will they be there the week after? Please help!--Maii 20:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)Maii

When I defeated one of them in Diamond, they didn't come back. so ill have to say no for DP. As for Pt, i have no Idea. Never Give Up Pika 19:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I've heard that it's after you beat Cynthia (again). That's how it worked in my Platinum, anyway.--Purimpopoie 20:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

A Parallel between the lake trios and Odin, Vé and Vili

I was reading up on the god Odin (father of Thor) after seeing a episode of SHS on CN. Well it turns out that Odin has 2 brothers. Now granted this is from Wikipedia, and I've yet to google any more into this, I think its interesting how much Odin and his brothers Parallel Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf. To the first human couple, Ask and Embla, Odin gave soul and life; Vili gave wit (intelligence) and sense of touch; and Vé gave countenance (appearance, facial expression), speech, hearing, and sight. So should this be mentioned in this article and/or their individual articles? Yami 02:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Should I just add this info or what? Odin and his brothers represent something that is apart of humanity, just like the lake trio. Plus its not uncommon for there to be multiple counterparts to mythological deities. The article already mentions Athena/Minerva, Poseidon/Neptune, and Zeus/Jupiter, and the Vili makes a similar mention so I think that's covered. Yami 17:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't think so. The comparisons are extremely vague, and seeing as there are no similarities in appearance, vague similarities in concept are too little to go by. --AndyPKMN 00:58, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean similarities in appearance? Yami 01:00, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

trivia

arent these and cresellia the only legendaries that haven't appeared in any movies?--Ash0011 19:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Trivia

Shouldn't it be noted that the lake trio (Azelf, Mespirit, and Uxie) are the only legendary Pokemon not to have a signature move?--Sylveon (talk) 06:33, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

The three birds. To name a few.--ForceFire 08:02, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

You're right. I forgot about them.--Sylveon (talk) 02:02, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

In the games > Pokemon Omega Ruby And Alpha Sapphire

Uxie and Azelf seem to be switched in terms of times. I also don't know if 8pm should be classified as "sunset" since the sun sets at different times throughout the year and across the world. Also, should it be mentioned that the player needs to capture them in order to capture Palkia, Dialga, and Giratina?WizardOfStaz (talk) 11:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I replaced the terms with the actual times they appear. As for the second point, I'm not sure if that should be mentioned on this page or their pages instead. ☆The Solar Dragon☆ 12:05, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

The abilities of each

Could information be added about the trio's ability to cause a loss of will, emotion and knowledge as is mentioned in the Sinnoh Myths? I don't really know where to put this it may need a new section.

Logos, Ethos, Pathos

Would it be reasonable to draw a link to the concepts of logos, ethos and pathos given that a link has already been drawn to the imperial regalia which are said to represent wisdom (logos), benevolence (ethos) and valour (pathos)? Pharap (talk) 23:38, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Trivia

The lake guardians were, up until gen 8, the only trio to solely' have a trinomial, and (fairly) unique way of determining the levels at which they learn moves;

1 (6*0)+(3*0)+(1*1)

6 (6*1)+(3*0)+(1*0)

16 (6*2)+(3*1)+(1*1)

21 (6*3)+(3*1)+(1*0)

31 (6*4)+(3*2)+(1*1)

36 (6*5)+(3*2)+(1*0)

46 (6*6)+(3*3)+(1*1)

51 (6*7)+(3*3)+(1*0)

61 (6*8)+(3*4)+(1*1)

66 (6*9)+(3*4)+(1*0)

76 (6*10)+(3*5)+(1*1)

I am not sure how to write the equation for this, but it would make them the only legendary trio who only have a trinomial formula (the Tapus have a trinomial formula, 4(n+1)-(n-1)-(n-6), but only once n≥7). It is also interesting that all 3 of the lake guardians weigh 0.3kg and are 0.3m tall. Other things, like the catch rate of 3, are not unique to them, and not notable. Thank you. - unsigned comment from INTERNETFRIEND (talk • contribs)

Far too specific and complex to be notable.--ForceFire 04:47, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Angels

Given their connection to Arceus, could the Lake Guardians not also pull inspiration from angels? Specifically the highest orders of angels: Seraphim (characterized by their "burning love to God"), Cherubim (characterized by knowledge), and Thrones (aka "valiant ones"). Mesprit—the Emotion Pokémon—would be a seraph, Uxie—the Knowledge Pokémon—a cherub, and Azelf—residing in the Lake of Valor—a throne. Icycatelf (talk) 14:56, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Move to "Pokémon of the lakes"

This page is primarily about Azelf, Mesprit, and Uxie in the games, so it seems odd to call the page "lake guardians" when that term has only been applied to the trio in the Ashnime. In fact, in the games, "lake guardians" is only ever used as the name of a HOME research task that asks you to catch the three Pokémon that you battle in the lake caverns during the main story of Legends: Arceus (Hisuian Goodra, Hisuian Zoroark, and Overqwil). So it doesn't seem like an apt name for Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf.

I'd like to propose moving the page to Pokémon of the lakes (a term which is already mentioned in the lede), since this phrase has been consistently applied to the trio in the games:

"Capturing the Pokémon of the lakes will free the Pokémon of Mt. Coronet. From the Pokémon of the lakes, crystals can be extracted to create a Red Chain." (Cyrus's computer; Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Brilliant Diamond, and Shining Pearl)

"The Pokémon of the lakes seem eager to show us something..." (Cynthia; Platinum)

"The Red Chain has shattered... But we owe the Pokémon of the lakes our thanks for getting us this far." (Irida; Legends: Arceus)

This is not an exhaustive list, by the way. I'm just using these quotes to demonstrate that this phrase has been used in the games for over a decade, so it's a logical phrase to use as their group name. Storm Aurora (talk) 04:13, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Pokémon of the lakes is a good name for the trio and closest to official name we have. I say go for it, that is vote for renaming.--Jacob9594 (talk) 15:22, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Just to make a quick list to catch anyone up on our options (while also listing the pros and cons), we have "Lake Guardians" (seems to be anime only, which is why we are opting to change the game page title), "Lake Trio" (one of the only cases of a game name/term used officially, found on Nintendo UK's page to describe the group and in pokemon center tags, but the reliability of those sources aren't rock solid), "UMA" (was used by Masuda himself, an actual term like "UFO", and is likely the closest to "creator's intent" seeing how it is also reflected in the pokemon's names in both Japanese and English, but it isn't officially used in game meaning it might not be the official title), and lastly different variations of "Pokemon of the lakes/lake Pokemon" (probably the most used in-game, but due to variations, sentence context, and lack of capitalization it might be more descriptive rather than an official title). So personally, I think it'd be best to write out their full names as the title ("Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf") and then explain all the title variations in the header like we've mostly done already. I believe examples like the Super Music Collection also simply write out their names, so while kind've unsatisfying of a conclusion, they simply might not have a concrete official title (yet, at least).TAHK0 (talk) 23:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah something like "Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf" or "Relationship between Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf" seems ideal (though I prefer the former of these two options, as this page isn't just about their relationship with each other, but their history as a group and interactions with others). Landfish7 23:15, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of "Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf" because it can be hard to tell in prose whether it ought to link to the page for three Pokémon or three pages for each Pokémon. "Pokémon of the lakes" sounds fine to me. --Apopheniac (talk) 16:40, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Given that the in-game usage seems to be quite variable ("Pokémon of the lakes", "Pokémon of the three lakes", "Pokémon from the lakes", "the three legendary Pokémon of the lakes" are all used in DPPt, for example), I'm not sure there's a clearly established name for them in the games. There is a clearly established group name for them in the anime, so I think it would be best to use that name as the title of the page. The main argument against using a clearly established name from the anime when no such name exists in the games that I could see would be if the anime name was based on anime-exclusive lore, so wasn't applicable to other media; however, their status as guardians of the lakes is fairly universal across media, so I don't see a reason to avoid the anime name.

I can see a case for "Lake Trio", although that was a one-off usage in a product description; conversely, "Lake Guardians" has been used consistently in the anime — including both the original DP series and the more modern Arceus Chronicles. If we lacked the anime name, I would probably advocate for "Lake Trio" as the page title. --SnorlaxMonster 10:27, 23 March 2024 (UTC)