Talk:Clemont's Chespin

Same Chespin

Japanese is not my forte....but was it confirmed that this is the same Chespin that was presented to Serena when she choose her first Pokémon? --HoennMaster 23:16, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

I know its late and you probably already know, but no, it was not. StephenWalker97 (talk) 15:17, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Trivia

Chespin is the first regional Grass-type starter to be owned by a main character other than Ash. Does this mean within that regeon because May had Bulbasaur --Ditto51/Tom (My Talk Page) 16:29, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it means within that region. PattyMan 19:26, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Gender

Should we say he male since he fell in love the female fennken on tv and shown to like mimic Ash Hawlucha stand and his owner as well. That show to be male. --Terryberry94 (talk) 05:02, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Falling in love with a Pokémon of a particular gender and mimicking a specific Pokémon are not strong enough proof that a Pokémon is male or female. We need to have the characters state Chespin's gender before we add it to the article. He's here! The one and only...Uncle Edit! (talk) 21:15, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this is really just nitpicking at this point. Chespin is male, he fell in love with a Female Meowstic(who can't have any sort of gender debate because she is point blank female). The anime has no mention of gay pokemon anywhere and it's a kid show so this a character has to say it thing isn't needed in this case, yes in other cases it is needed but Meowstic was a female, this can't be debated.RBK (talk) 06:02, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

It is Bulbapedia policy that we do not assume the gender of a Pokémon based on the gender of something it has been attracted to, unless it is via a move or ability such as Attract or Cute Charm. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 06:19, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

And in most cases I agree with that, however if a pokemon has a confirmed gender(as Meowstic does) and the pokemon(Chespin) knew it was a female the whole time as it can't be male, it's not the same thing. In this case, it's not an assumption of gender, as Meowstic can only be one or the other.

If a pokemon falls for a confirmed female pokemon, it is male and vice versa. The key word is confirmed her as just acting feminine isn't the same thing(Purrlion).RBK (talk) 07:19, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Not remotely the case. You're completely assuming that Pokémon can only be attracted to the opposite gender, despite nothing official ever stating such. It's Bulbapedia's stance that we do not assume that Pokémon are only straight, thus we do not assume genders based on non-move/ability inflicted attraction. - Kogoro - Talk to me - 07:34, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Are you seriously suggesting that there are gay pokemon?? Really?? On a kids show?? The show barely recognizes straight love and you're suggesting gay love?? That is just grasping right there. The closest we ever got to that is Mijumaru falling for a Purrloin pretending to be a girl but even that his gender was confirmed. Like I said, Meowstic can't pretend to be anything other then a girl.RBK (talk) 09:06, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

How about Chespin itself? How do you know it's not a very masculine female? You're too focused on the Meowstic but not even bothering to think if Chespin could be female. --ForceFire 09:35, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Are you seriously suggesting that Chespin is a lesbian right now?? Show me at least one other pokemon who is confirmed gay or lesbian and you might have a point but until it is just ridiculous speculation. There are no gay or lesbian characters in a kids cartoon for gods sake. They rarely even mention straight relationships let alone gay ones.RBK (talk) 09:03, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to have to ask for this discussion to end. This is our policy and it's been this way for the longest time. Even if they are serious hints dropped we cannot do anything until A) Attract happens or B) a speaking character mentions the Pokémon's gender. That's just the way it is. There is nothing speculative about leaving something as ambiguous. --ケンジのガール 09:45, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Chespin Gender XY051

I noticed in XY051, Clemont said "I'll leave him to you" about halfway through the episode when Bonnie asked if Chespin wanted to learn how to dance too, does this mean anything with regards to Chespin's gender? StephenWalker97 (talk) 20:17, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

If it was the dubbed version, it'd mean nothing, but since the episode in question has yet to be dubbed, I'd call that pretty conclusive, personally. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 20:10, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Gluttonous Chespin pic wanted

Can someone upload a picture of Chespin being gluttonous to add to his page, please? --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 06:56, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

I found this picture in Bulbapedia. Is this picture ok to use in Chespin's page? --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 01:52, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Trivia Mark II

Should it be trivia that Chespin is the only kalos starter not to evolve as well as not to have battled it's fully evolved form.--Ovidkid (talk) 22:11, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

The series is far from over. What you're suggesting is like a doctor saying someone is dead while he's still breathing. CycloneGU (talk) 22:53, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Their have been a few recent hints that it might evolve at some point in the future LR14 (talk) 23:29, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

What kind of hints?Pikablu (talk) 01:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Their have been merchandise focusing on Ash and his friends Pokémon and instead of Chespin their is a Quilladin shown, its a similar case to when Serena's Pancham was first revealed. LR14 (talk) 14:45, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Possible evolution?

The Japanese episode title of XY094 contains Quilladin. Could this be a possible evolution? (Wait till XY093 airs in Japan. We can check the ending credits then.) 1234567890Number (talk) 10:43, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

The episode summary says that it's a wild one, so no, it is not evolving Pratik_12 _Talk 10:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Chespin Gender XY097

In the dream Chespin uses the masculine "boku" to refer to itself. Does this make it male for sure? - unsigned comment from Gatogirl (talk • contribs)

I'm not certain exactly how this would be decided, but for the sake of completeness, how does Braixen (as a Delphox) refer to itself? With a feminine form (I don't speak Japanese, not even sure what that would be)? ChE clarinetist (talk) 23:07, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Braixen, as a Delphox, consistently uses the pronoun "watashi" when referring to herself. I can barely speak a word of Japanese myself, let alone understand what characters are saying when I watch Japanese episodes unsubbed, but pronouns are one of the few things I've picked up, and "watashi" seems to be a feminine pronoun. (copied from Talk:Clemont's Bunnelby for completeness)ThroningErmine8 (talk) 23:25, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Gender pronouns are not used for confirming genders. --リックEO (メッセージ) 05:05, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Chespin Gender XY113

Chespin had a crush on a female Buneary, who preferred Bunnelby (confirmed male). Pancham also had a crush on that Buneary, and he's also confirmed male. Considering that Chespin already had a crush on a female Meowstic, I think this is good enough proof to say that Chespin is male. UxieLover1994 (talk) 23:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Having a crush on a certain gender Pokémon has never been used as proof before, it is conjecture assuming that only opposite genders can have a crush on each other. There is no proof that only opposite genders have crushes, it is entirely possible for same genders to have a crush on each other. ChE clarinetist (talk) 23:59, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Please be aware that this is a children's anime. Homosexuality is banned in these types of shows to avoid offending parents and moral guardians, so Chespin being male is the only possibility on why it can have a crush on a female Meowstic or Buneary. Chespin cannot be a lesbian female. The only time in the anime where same sex romance was displayed was due to outside interference, and it does not count. UxieLover1994 (talk) 01:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, it is Bulbapedia policy to not confirm genders from crushes, and staff members have given the same exact reasoning as I have just stated. You have no proof that homosexuality is banned in the show itself, and Chespins gender will only be confirmed if hit by something like Attract from a Pokémon with a confirmed gender, or if it goes to a similar gathering like the dance party. ChE clarinetist (talk) 02:04, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

I was only just trying to point this all out, but I know that displaying homosexual content in kids shows will cause controversy, especially in the west. But I gotta ask: are you a moderator yourself? UxieLover1994 (talk) 02:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

It is not common, but there have been some hinted instances of homosexuality in Western kids shows. No I am not, but that does not matter, I still am able to provide the same arguments that are used in these situations, especially one as frequently discussed as this (Ash's Charizard, Ash's Oshawott, Clemonts Chespin, and Serena's Pancham have all had this discussion, before some of them had their genders confirmed). ChE clarinetist (talk) 02:19, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Barely two months ago, UxieLover1994, you were part of another very similar discussion about Serena's Pancham, even using basically the exact same argument. You should know the wiki's policy very well from that discussion.

We will not assume what the writers will and won't do, regardless of the laws in Japan. Gender is only confirmed through Attract or explicitly stated in the show, not behavioral patterns. (To paraphrase Force Fire's response for Serena's Pancham.) This is our policy. Please respect it. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:22, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Besides what Tiddlywinks pointed out, I'd like to bring up that Meowth fell madly in love with a Purrloin in BW044 that was later revealed to be male. So it's canonically proven that it's not impossible in the anime for a Pokémon to fall in love with another Pokémon of the same gender. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 08:44, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in and continue this arduous discussion(And I'm not debating staff policy this time), but the Purrloin example doesn't work:Said Purrloin wasn't being honest about its biological gender. Nor did it identify verbally(through Meowth or any other reliable translator or Attract/Captivate) as trans, bi or or gay. And neither does Meowth(unless under the influence of fermented, mildly psychotropic Berry Juice to James in the 4Kids era dub only). He(the Purrloin) was lying to manipulate the cast into doing what it wanted. So that isn't a concrete example because the plot of the episode in question:Also, Meowth identified it as female in his mind, and was attracted to said(untrue)femininity. He(Meowth) was NOT attracted to a identified male in a homosexual way nor was he attracted as if the Purrloin was a trans female, in either by intent, instinct, choice, arousal or sexuality. There is no solid, concrete proof of naturally transgender or homosexual Pokémon in the anime, despite the fact I believe that they could(and should)exist. Again, sorry to butt in, but I feel that the Purrloin from said episode is nether a good example of, nor identifies with any form of LGBTQA personalities, for the Pokémon anime..For what its worth, I'm bi. --BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 09:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Alright, maybe my example wasn't the best, but there are still plenty of other reasons to not determine a gender simply based on attraction. Since the point I was trying to make remains the same, I don't see the need to dissect my example. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 11:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Okay. First things first, just because a confirmed male Pokémon fell in love with a confirmed female Pokémon, it does not mean that any Pokémon that falls in love with that confirmed female Pokémon is a male. We will not, repeat, will not base genders off of behavioral patterns like a crush. Genders are only confirmed via Attract/Cute Charm or is it is explicitly stated in the original Japanese episode. Secondly, BlisseyandtheAuaJets, no one implied that Purrloin was a transgender Pokémon, no one even said anything remotely close to that. The Purrloin acted feminine, but it does not mean we're implying that it is a transgender Pokémon. It acted feminine to the point that Meowth gained an attraction from it, and attraction comes in different forms, and the attraction we're thinking of is obviously not the same as yours.--ForceFire 12:48, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Okay look I don't care what anyone says in response to this because this needs to be said. The policy is flawed and so is the logic that the moderators use and that doesn't apply only to the gender situation. You guys need to accept the fact that you've been wrong about a Pokémon's "assumed" gender not being it's confirmed gender. A prime example being Serena's Pancham you said he wasn't confirmed male even though there was evidence that said he is and you wrong. You need to accept the fact that when a Pokémon with a confirmed gender has a crush on another Pokémon it indicates what the other Pokémon's gender could be. You have little to no evidence that supports your arguments while we do have evidence. Just accept the fact that the way you do things is flawed. Flain (talk) 17:15, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

We are not "wrong" about that. The policy is not flawed, you're just mired in confirmation bias; there's no reason to think it will always be like you want to assume. At any point, the show could introduce a situation that runs completely counter to your assumptions, and it would contradict nothing essential to the show.

The policy will not change. Tiddlywinks (talk) 17:37, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

You're talking to guy who won the argument a Ash's Froakie being "confirmed" to hatch from an egg and I also have an above average IQ I think I know what I'm talking about. And tell how many times has a Pokémon not been the gender it was implied to have? That Purrloin from BW doesn't count for anything because that was a plot device.

"Winning" and your IQ are relevant to nothing.

And it matters not ONE BIT how many times you've been right or wrong. If I flipped a coin 100 times and got 100 heads, that doesn't mean it's impossible to get tails (or that it's a double-sided coin). You don't base good logic purely on outcomes, that's pure folly. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:22, 9 April 2016 (UTC)