Talk:Volcarona (Pokémon)

Ulgamoth based on Mothra

I know that if someone adds to the origin that Ulgamoth may have been inspired by Mothra, it will get taken done because it is apparently just an opinion. However, the two share similarities in appearence, color scheme and the ability to use its shedding scales as weapons. I don't think this is just an "opinion", and may be a legitimate origin.

Your thoughts? - 050294 09:06, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I've seen that origin removed several times, and while I'm no expert on Mothra, the similarities listed seem to be quite convincing. Not to mention our current origins listed are quite unconvincing; it hardly resembles the Atlas moth, and the phrase "like a moth to a flame" doesn't seem relevant enough to be the primary origin. --Andy^P_K^M_N 12:06, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

It is almost certainly not "like a moth to a flame". That is an English expression, so unless a Japanese equivelent exists then Mothra is almost certainly unrelated. However, Mothra is well know popular culture in Japan, so it is a likely origin. --SnorlaxMonster 13:45, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

To say this Pokémon is based on something in popular culture is an opinion. Regardless of how much it sounds like it's based on it, you can't say it's based on Mothra because it's an opinion. -Sketch 19:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Just like how you imagine a hydra with wings despite only Ghidorah havings wings out of the two. Pop culture references happen all the time, what makes you so sure Pokémon does not have any WHEN YOU ARE NOT GAME FREAK?! Shiramu Kuromu 19:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

You aren't GameFreak either. Unless you can prove it, with physical evidence that says the Pokémon is based on this monster, it cannot be said, period. Learn the difference between fact and an opinion. -Sketch 01:20, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Unless you can prove, with physical evidence, that says the Pokémon is not based on this monster, it cannot removed either, as it is also opinion. It is a quite plausible origin and many Pokémon origins on Bulbapedia are not fact, as the majority of them have not been officially stated by Gamefreak. Almost all of them are opinionated but still plausible. Not to be rude, but you're acting a bit hypocritical. - 050294 02:05, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

doesnt work that way around here. you show us hardcore proof that it IS based on it, and then we add it. -- MAGNEDETH 02:13, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Just a question, but why allow other opinionated origins but not this? Almost every origin on Bulbapedia is opinionated so I didn't think it was that bad to add Mothra to the origins, honestly, because they are so alike it's not even funny. - 050294 02:18, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, just adding this: I could list the extreme similarities and references, in both appearance and pokedex data, to Mothra for evidence if you'd like. I could also do the same thing with Sazandora. - 050294 02:22, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

first, any origin we add is backed up with evidence in some way. find one that isnt backed-up.

second, sure, list them. -- MAGNEDETH 02:25, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Alrighty then... The first thing to note is color scheme and physical appearence.

Now, as seen in the above images, their physical appearances are very similar. They both share the white fur/fuzz on their bodies. (And yes, I've checked, no moth or butterfly that I've seen has white face fuzz like that, or silk, or whatever it is) They both have reddish/orange, "firery", colored wings. They both are based off of moths and possibly butterflies. Also, they both have the same bright blue eyes, one of Mothra's noted qualities, as they are so bright.

Now for characteristics. For starters, Mothra draws many parallels to the Phoenix, the legendary firebird, and also can use its scales as weapons. As stated in Ulgamoth's pokedex entry: "If it becomes involved in a fight, it scatters flaming scales from its 6 wings all over the surrounding surfaces to make a sea of fire", Ulgamoth also shares the ability to use its shedding scales as weapons. While Ulgamoth may not have been directly influenced by the phoenix, it's second pokedex entry: "It is said that when the ground becomes pitch black with volcanic ash, Ulgamoth's fire takes the place of the sun." is a possible reference to them, as Phoenixes also have this trait, making it more similar to Mothra as Mothra makes subtle references to the mythological bird.

Is this enough info? If not I will gladly add more, as there are tons more similarities between the two. - 050294 02:58, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

i would like to see more. -- MAGNEDETH 03:10, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I gotta side with him, the Mothra similarities are very strong here Ataro 03:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Her ;P - 050294 03:41, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Alright!

The two's cries are also similar, as seen in these videos, though Mothra's cry is closer to the middle of its video.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bhoWfC1L9k <- Mothra - Ulgamoth-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoplQuWLG5g).

They both are also revered in a way. In the part of the ancient castle where you encounter Ulgamoth, as seen in the image above, a painting, or picture, of its image sits behind it and it appears to have been revered, important, or even worshipped by whoever made the castle. As for Mothra, she is a revered monster who protects all that is good and is one of the few purely heroic kaiju monsters. The people who are protected by it and its reincarnated babies (Like I said earlier, it is very similar to phoenixes) worship her and consider her a god, or perhaps a savior.

Do you need more? - 050294 03:41, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I think that while there's very good circumstantial evidence, references to pop-culture characters need to be explicit. References to animals (even, broadly, mythical ones like centaurs or hydras) do not--that's pretty well-understood. So I think Sketch is right in asserting that without actual textual evidence from the game (a joke or a comment) or a comment from a game designer in an interview, we're speculating to say it's based on Mothra. Or, for that matter, any other pop-culture character; if Looker got himself out of trouble with trinkets, we couldn't definitively call him MacGyver. -- evkl _{(need to talk?)} 19:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

So then the origin of both Onokus and Tyranitar are wrong, as they're both apparently based on Destoroyah and Godzilla, respectively. Same thing with Rotom being based on Pulseman, as that is not stated by Nintendo and is only assumed. - 050294 22:35, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

All those references need to go... except Pulseman... because GameFreak made Pulseman. Hell, the Pulseman reference is obvious. Volt Tackle was Pulseman's signature move. See List of references to Pulseman. Pulseman is the one thing that is connected to Pokemon. Godzilla isn't. Sorry. -Sketch 22:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

So what if it was made by Gamefreak? It was NEVER officially stated by Gamefreak to be based on it. - 050294 22:50, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

This is very different. Pulseman's signature move is Volt Tackle, and then there's a Pokemon attack of the same name? That's not a coincidence. There are references to Pulseman in Pokemon. Sorry, now, this decision is final. -Sketch 23:17, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The Mothra references are also pretty obvious. Tolstak 23:08, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

It's an opinion. No. -Sketch 23:17, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Watch out, guize, Sketch's opinions are facts! Tolstak 23:21, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Let's try to remain civil, no? Especially when talking to admins. Bikini Miltank 23:26, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Real mature guys. Let's remove that piece of trivia even though Evkl explained that those 2 are exceptions to this rule BECAUSE they are in someway related to GameFreak. —♥ Jello^talk 23:44, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

So Pulseman is okay because it's OBVIOUS, but other pop culture references are not okay because GameFreak hasn't explicitly stated them? Even though Gen 5 is FILLED with pop culture references? Tolstak 23:49, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much. I wasn't aware it was a sin for GameFreak to reference their own games. —♥ Jello^talk 00:01, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't aware it was a sin for GameFreak to reference Japanese culture. Tolstak 00:04, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Can we just end this already? Ataro 00:10, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd love to. Tolstak 00:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Can't it be added to Trivia that Volcarona has traits in common with Mothra, and that some believe it as a possible origin? This way, it isn't under origin until confirmed and yet also tells people that there may be another influence? Or would this cause confusion and make people try to edit the page to put it under Origin, thinking that it got under Trivia by accident? --Shadowater 22:18, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

level100

Except for smergle Is ulgamoth only non-legendary pokemon that learn move on level 100?Meearaimeng 10:31, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Its pre-evolution also learn Flare Blitz on lvl 100 (which seems more interesting). Aside from that I couldn't find any other pokemon with this trait. But I don't think it's notable. --ЫъГЬ 12:03, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Shaymin and Seed Flare is one of a few I can't think of right now. But learning a move at level 100 isn't that unique. --ケンジのガール 04:57, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Mewtwo, Arceus are also examples, but he was talking about non-legendary. --ЫъГЬ 09:44, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Then it is ulgamoth and its evolution line are only non-legenddary pokemon how learn move at level 100?Meearaimeng 03:02, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Ulgamoth = Volcarona, official.

The review in the latest Official Nintendo Magazine, those who previously revealed the names of Tympole, Timburr, Chili, Cress, Striaton City and Nacrene City specifically mentions Volcarona by name. Can somebody change the page title? - unsigned comment from Exterminieren (talk • contribs)

I don't think that the admins will move this without proof. Could you possibly take a picture of the review? (I really need to start reading it again...) Blazios 17:56, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Of course. http://img257.imageshack.us/i/volcarona.jpg/ Exterminieren 18:22 (UTC)

Magnet rise?

In the trivia section, it says that Volcanrona can learn magnet rise. It can't. Shouldn't someone fix that? Also, Volcanrona is the only pokemon that can learn fire dance by leveling up. Shouldn't that be included in the trivia?Fishmonk 14:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

It can. Via breeding with Forretress. Fire Dance is basically its signature move, it's noted on move's page and in the list of signature moves.--ЫъГЬ 15:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Isn't Volcarona the highest levelled non legendary Pokemon in the wild, sans Magikarp?

Shouldn't that be added in Trivia? I'm asking first, as the Mothra talk above is making me a bit worried about adding Trivia without asking first --Shadowater 22:16, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Since it's sans-Magikarp, I don't think so. Magikarp is the highest leveled wild non-legendary Pokémon. We don't list second bests. --SnorlaxMonster 13:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

It's tied with Regigigas. Though they are different from Magikarp, as they are fixed encounters, so they are the highest leveled fixed encounters, which could be notable enough to add, but I dunno. XVuvuzela2010X 20:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

However, Regigigas is legendary. Magikarp is tied with Regigigas for lowest leveled wild Pokémon. But lowest fixed encounter may indeed be notable. On the other hand, it is bordering on too many conditions ("non-legendary", "wild", and "fixed level"). --SnorlaxMonster 01:06, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Location, location

On the game location section, it lists Volcarona's rarity as "Two". Shouldn't that be "One" or "One, Evolve" since the rarity is seperate for each version? (like for Throh it'd say "Rare (Black), Uncommon (White)?" Porygon-man 06:06, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Flare Blitz

How do you get Flare Blitz onto Volcarona from a prior evolution? Larvesta doesn't learn Flare Blitz until level 100, and if I remember correctly, you can't evolve level 100 Pokémon. Enervation 23:56, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Um...level it up, Larvesta learns the moves, then evolves?....Ataro 23:58, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

What an Odd Base Stat.

Should it be pointed out in the article, about this...unusual situation? As Larvesta It has a Base Attack of 85 and a base Sp. Attack of 50. But when it evolves into Volcarona, Its Sp. Attack increases to 135, while its Attack *DROPS* to 60! Thats really weird! PowerPlantRaichu 22:29, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Still, it's not that weird. Any Pokémon can have stat changes. --☆ヨッシ ー の世界☆ 23:56, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

There is actually quite a large number of Pokémon that have certain stats drop when they evolve. --SnorlaxMonster 12:55, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Hm. Alright. I guess i never payed much attention. Right now though, I'm completely distracted. Why? Cause why on earth was this thing standing on the floor in Relic Castle? As if it were legendary? But it isnt...So..I dont...yeah....PowerPlantRaichu 00:28, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Origin also based on a Madagascan sunset moth?

Read more about it here: [[1]]

It may also be based on that. Blueknightex 12:06, 7 April 2012 (UTC)