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Talk:Meowth (Team Rocket)

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"Persian"

Should "Persian" in this article link to the general Pokémon page, or specifically Giovanni's Persian- unsigned comment from MTC (talkcontribs)

I'd say to the specific Persian. --BJG

But, the specific Persian is rarely seen or heard from... - 振霖T 06:47, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's still a specific Persian. I mean, sure there's not much we can say about it, but it's there as a symbol of power. Like Dr. Claw's cat. Or Dr. Evil's cat. --BGJ.

Meowth accent

"Oily in the morning"? Wasn't it "Early in the morning" just in Meowth's accent?- unsigned comment from Blackjack Gabbiani (talkcontribs)

Mr. Meowth

I would like to call this one Mr. Meowth, since he's not just a pokemon, but a person.(Unsigned comment by User:RocketM)

As long as you accept that it is a fanon term, you can call Meowth whatever you want. --FabuVinny 11:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Article's name

With the recent changes to the Pokémon card article naming, the Team Rocket set's Meowth card will have the same name as this article. That isn't too good. -Happy Mask Man 03:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Info Tip

Meowth's body can withstand a certain amount of electricity without sustaining extreme damage because of the many times Pikachu used it's electric attack on him and the others

[[1]] Time - 00:36

Voice

If PUSA chose Bill Rogers to do Corphish why didn't they chose Rogers to do Meowth and Swellow I think Billy Beach was a bad idea for a replacement Livinlarge18 20:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Reigon and hometown

Hometown: Hollywood Region: California

This doesn't seem right, especially his reigon being California. I don't think there is a "California" in the pokemon world. User:GT4GTR 9:27am CST Australia, 20th Febuary 2008

Like hell it doesn't. I've made the necessary changes. --ニョロトノ666 23:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Remember EP070? "Don't think there's a California in Pokémon", uh huh. Okay, there's no China either, despite it being mentioned time after time. No South America. If there's no California, there's none of the other crap. TTEchidnaGSDS! 00:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm missing the point. Are you saying that there is, in fact, a California in the Pokémon world? Or are you saying that that's crap and that I was correct in removing it? Sorry if I don't understand your reference to EP070, but I don't watch the anime. --ニョロトノ666 01:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Hollywood is an important place to Meowth, but according to the flashbacks in that episode, he was inspired to head off to Hollywood after seeing a movie. After all, the episode's dub title is Go West, Young Meowth! Simply put, my on this action: Right action, wrong reason. --Shiningpikablu252 03:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, where do you consider your hometown to be? Where you were born, or where you grew up? Meowth may not have been born in Hollywood, but he certainly learned to talk, read, walk... and so on there. TTEchidnaGSDS! 03:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Yea, I would say that Hollywood was Meowth's hometown. --Theryguy512 13:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I'll change the hometown back to Hollywood. However, should I list the region as California, The United States of America, or North America? --ニョロトノ666 21:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I would say California. --Theryguy512 21:33, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Done. --ニョロトノ666 22:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, but it still doesn't sound right. Not that i'd know cause i'm not American. GT4GTR

IDK if Meowth is from California. I thought he was living in a dance place in Kanto before he was taken by Jessie and James.Shiny Lucario 12:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

In one episode (mayby EP070) they say we're going to HOLLYWOOD <<Key word. IDK if they said California... CrystalLucario 12:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, the only Hollywood of any significant meaning is the one in California. It's like when saying "Chicago", does anyone think I come from an asteroid? TTEchidnaGSDS! 01:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
The problem, though, is that Hollywood, California, is several MILES away from Kanto (almost on the other side of the world, if we use real life terms), A ship taking them to it would be far TOO long (especially since they had to train for the Pokemon League, which was beginning in almost a month away from that episode.), they didn't mention taking an airliner at all (In fact, they seemed to take a van to it), and more importantly, I don't think Hollywood, California, the real one is... well... is almost a nuke zone (the buildings looked like they were attacked by the aliens from ID4. I mean, even the Hoovervilles seemed more lively than the Hollywood in that episode.). So it's more likely they meant a similar named town with similar filming industry than the ACTUAL Hollywood. Weedle Mchairybug 02:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Well until there's significant proof that it isn't intended to be the one in California, it should stay. TTEchidna 03:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, there is now. I just asked Dogasu, and he says that while it is based off of the one in California, it's NOT meant to be the same one as the one in California. He mentioned that the japanese name for Hollywood (as in, the one in California) is ハリウッド (Ha-ri-u-d-do), whileas the name of the town in the Japanese version of Go West, Young Meowth is ホリウッド (Ho-ri-u-d-do), similar to how the japanese name of Porta Vista was similar to Acupalco, but not quite the same. I've changed the article in relation to this new evidence. Weedle Mchairybug 14:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Fake out?

When did Meowth Use Fake out? User:ShinyMedicham

From the edit summary by Missingno. Master: EP178. Jessie ordered Meowth to do a "Scratch attack fake-out". Meowth didn't scratch, but it clapped its hands together, and Bulbasaur did flinch, which is what Fake Out does However, the move was only introduced in Generation III so this is doubtful. --FabuVinny |Talk Page| 19:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Jessie may have meant "fake-out" in a more literal sense. - Cassius335 19:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Hometown

His hometown is unknown. He grew in Hollywood, he wasn't born there. Watch the episode.Portuguese Old Man 15:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Costumes?

Should we mention how many costumes of Pokémon Meowth has masqueraded as? There's several if I recall... PDL 03:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Gender proof?

Is there any proof that Meowth is male? (Falling in love does not count) The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 02:25, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Umm...its voice, perhaps? Chocolate (Merry Christmas!) 02:30 12/20/2008
Voice means nothing, and it would mean nothing even if Maddie hadn't been transgender. In older times, women

were played by men in the theatre. The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 02:32, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

If there isn't any evidence in the next few hours, I will change it to unknown until concrete proof comes through. The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 15:38, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Falling in love doesn't count? Meowth has fallen in love with women (human and Pokémon) multiple times. You might as well say that Brock's gender is unknown. And that disregards the fact that Meowth is almost universally refered to as a "he" Aura-Knight 16:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Whos to say that Meowth Couldnt be a lesbian?DCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))
No, love does not count. Brock's been confirmed, through dialogue, as male. The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 16:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Watch any 10 episodes and I'd be willing to bet there's a certain pronoun used for Meowth at least once. Aura-Knight 16:38, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Is it in the original? The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 16:39, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Not the Dub. In japanese. You find it, then you can change itDCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))
Why is this even coming up? Everyone know that Meowth is male, and the anime has made that no secret. I can understand doubting Pikachu but let's look at the facts:
  • A: Meowth has an undeniably male voice
  • B: Meowth has fallen in love with several females
  • C: Meowth has been refered to as male multiple times in the dub (I speak no Japanese and thus cannot vouch for the original)
  • D: Meowth, while having shown motherly affection for Togepi, has acted in a fairly typical way for a male, i.e. No dresses, perfume, etc

So Meowth is either male, or a female that is hiding it even from her best friends for more than 500 episodes? Maybe in other animes but not this one. - unsigned comment from Aura-Knight (talkcontribs)

Counters:
  • A: Again, men used to play women in the theatre.
  • B: So have women from many, popular media. I see no reason Pokémon is any different. They could make a character homoseual if they wanted.
  • C: The sub also said that Brock's mom is dead. (Alternatively) If you meet someone whose gender you aren't sure of, are you going to call them it?
  • D: Could be a tomboy. The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 17:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Counter 2.0
  1. and? Its called sultry
  2. Lesbians exist in real life, why not in not real life. Ever seen sailor moon?
  3. No he hasnt. find me the clip and then i shall agree.
  4. You sexist bastard

DCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))

Is there any proof that it's FEMALE? No. Is there any proof that it's male? Yes. Tons of it. So it's male. TorchicBlaziken (talkedits) 17:34, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Show me your proof.DCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))
I'm only saying one thing on this: please refrain from using language DCM, as it has caused unnecessary fights on the talk pages in the past. R.A. Hunter B. 18:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Im proving a point. Just because someone doesnt wear perfume doesnt mean they are a guyDCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))
Still. All you needed to say was sexist. No more. We would've gotten what you meant. R.A. Hunter B. 18:06, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I speak my mind. cope. now back on yopic. you cannot say its male because it sounds like oneDCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))

Sorry for getting involved.

I have always thought of Meowth as a male, so I'll always think of that, even if Pokemon reveals it as a female. R.A. Hunter B. 18:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
As will I, but Bulbapedia does have policies. The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 18:16, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
That's just one of the annoying things about the anime. They reference nearly all Pokémon as "it", even if everyone knows what gender they are. R.A. Hunter B. 18:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
No they dont. People just assumeDCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))
What more proof do we need to confirm Meowth as male? We've had explicit confirmation over ten years in the dub and Japan has never shown any evidence to prove Meowth female. We can get somebody who speaks Japanese and watches the episodes regularly to come over and end this. Aura-Knight 18:22, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
What proof we need is for someone to outright say it. The Dark Fiddler - Nos hablamos? 18:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
They reference Latios and Latias as it a few times if I'm not mistaken. R.A. Hunter B. 18:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I need someone actually saying Meowth is male or he when referring to meowth in the ACTUAL SERIES, not the bad $kids dub. They tend to add things they shouldntDCM((曲奇饼妖怪Spy on My Edits))
Then the problem is that none of us understand the raw. Let's find someone who does. Everyone needs to chill too...this is getting way too heated. Aura-Knight 19:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Usually I'm on the side of openess, but this is just rediculous. The characters have referred to him as a he in the anime. And I believe he uses a Japanese pronoun for males if the dub is your issue. And I highly doubt the orignal version never mention Meowth's gender before. It's their, it's just a matter of finding it. --ケンジガール 22:46, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Kenji-girl, as that would mean that Dawn's Buneary, Ambipomb, various Pokémon of Ash's, and others could all be mistakes, and could very well be the opposite genders of what the dub says they are. R.A. Hunter B. 00:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
After combing through Pokémon Wiki article, it says nothing about Meowth's gender, only that he was in love with Meowzie.--RexRacer -talk 00:46, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I laughed at these rediculous debates on Meowth's gender, everyone knows he's male. I was just thinking before with the debate on Charizard, the way this site's going they might aswell change Meowth to unknown too. I thought that as a joke. (GT4GTR 11:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC))

Night Slash

I think that Meowth did use Night Slash on Barry's Empoleon in DP103. It looked nothing like any time it ever used Fury Swipes or Scratch. Meowth's claws glowed white when it used the attack, and if you'll remember Aiding the Enemy, Honchkrow's wings glowed white as it used the very attack Meowth is revealed to be learning. And even if it is just learning the move now, remember that James's Cacnea pulled off a successful Drain Punch while still in the process of learning the move. Missingno. Master wants YOU! Join the Order of the Glitch! (my talk page) 18:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

If you saw, and paid attention, to the episode at all, you'd know that the stance Meowth took was a pre-Night Slash use, which he failed to execution because he claimed to be still in the middle of perfecting it. He never actually used, or attempted, to use Night Slash against Empoleon. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh. Missingno. Master wants YOU! Join the Order of the Glitch! (my talk page) 22:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

2 things

1: What if the anime confirms what Meowth's ability is? Where's that gonna fit in the infobox?

2: The article can be unprotected now. Missingno. Master says: The Celebi Glitch is real!(talk page) 11:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

We'll deal with that as it comes. Page is unprotected. Don't break it. —darklordtrom 11:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Character? and Official artwork(anime)?

In Jessie and James articles they have their official artwork at the top of their pages, and under the 'Character' section their is a current anime screenshot of them. Is it possible for some one to replace the current picture ontop to Meowth's official artwork, and either move the current picture up there down to the 'Character' section or add a newer picture if it's possible,--Thanks XXKojiMusaXX 22:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that because Jessie and James have appeared in the main series games, being a boss in Pokémon Yellow, their Official Art takes priority. While Meowth hasn't really appeared in the games, and all appearences in other media is based on the anime, so Anime "art" (screenshots) take priority over official art.
This appears to be the rule for other characters as well. Brock has his official Art as the Pewter Gym Leader, while someone like Gary has anime art, having not really appeared in the games. If you want to know the Official policy you should check with an admin though. Werdnae (talk) 06:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I'm still pretty new here so, I don't really know how to do anything yet. XXKojiMusaXX 21:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Episode Count

Pikachu has been in every episode except the special episodes (Pokemon Chronicles), but Meowth does. Since Meowth appeared in the second episode, would his inclusions to the chronicles episode make his appearances in the anime be more than Ash's Pikachu, or tie, or am I forgetting Meowth wasn't in a few episodes after EP002? --Dman dustin 23:38, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Meowth's Ability=

Meowth isn't picking up things--though he hasn't win any battle--expect for that cheating on Brock's Onix for the right to Togepi. I am assuming Meowth's ability is Technician--as he is usually on that made the gadgets and mecha for his care-takers, Jessie and James.- unsigned comment from Thinksan (talkcontribs)

Speculation. Don't add that unless it'll be said specifically in the anime. The anime and the games work very differently. --electAbuzzzz 17:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, and besides which, seeing how his throwing a bucket of water technically wasn't against the rules (as it was never stated in the rules whether or not to use items in the battlefield) and therefore, technically not cheating, he still was allowed to pass for the next round. Weedle Mchairybug 18:52, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Incomplete

Now that I've added a (teeny, tiny) "in the manga" section, does this still need the "incomplete" tag? ZestyCactus 03:27, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

It's not much. CuboneKing 03:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
If it has an "incomplete" section, it is incomplete. Turtwig A (talk | contribs) 03:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't help but notice...

Why doesn't Meowth have the Pokémon infobox? He's a Pokémon. Not a human. --ケンジガール 08:23, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

I think he should have the character infobox because he's major enough for it. That, and he acts like a human, unlike Pikachu... CuboneKing (Planet CuboneBone Club) 21:53, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
This infobox looks better though. I think it should stay like that until a solution is found. --ケンジガール 21:56, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Tickle

Meowth uses a "tickle attack", which I assume is like Tickle, but he uses it in EP104 to help Pikachu defeat a Rhydon. Tickle's not introduced until Gen III, so I doubt we can add it to his move list. Should it be put in Trivia, or is it not important enough? - unsigned comment from Jazzmoth (talkcontribs)

Tickling =/= Tickle the attack. That was during Generation I and the move did not exist until Generation II. --ケンジガール 21:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
  • In the English dub, Meowth actually shouts 'Tickle Attack!' as he does it, so in a way he is actually using a move even if it's not (or, wasn't at the time) an in-game move (Pikachu has many moves that are not in game).

Incomplete?

Is this really incomplete? Maybe Electric Tale section, but not whole article.--でんのう Zえんし 13:23, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Team Member

i don't know if you have already talked about this....but i think meowth should be counted as a team member. He is doesn't really have a trainer and in training daze they say he is a new member of the team.Angel10698 18:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

He IS counted as a member. He's in the Team Rocket member template and it says right at the top of his page.--Pokélova! 19:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry. this question isn't phrased then way i wanted it to be. Partner. Would you count him as a partner? Angel10698 23:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Pokémon Channel

Doesn't he appear there? I'm sure he appears as someone in the Pokémon News Flash, or you could say a Meowth that's like the Team Rocket's Meowth. --- Conanshinichi 06:48, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Protection template request

Evotag.png This article has been protected due to evidence that the subject of this article may released and/or caught in BW043. It will be unprotected when BW043 airs on August 18, 2011.

- Chosen of Mana 00:17, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Uh, why? :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 00:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I see. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 00:21, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Can somebody remove that released and/or part from the protection template? It doesn't really make sense.--Den Zen 21:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I think it means that Iris could possibly catch Meowth temporarily, and then release by the end of the episode. I highly doubt that Iris will keep Meowth for long. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 21:22, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Not really a priority, but maybe the grammar could be corrected in the protection template? Like, right now, it says "that the subject of this article may released and/or caught...", when it should read "that the subject of this article may be released and/or caught...". At least, that's how I see it. Fully support the idea of Iris catching Meowth, btw. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talkcontribs) 01:53, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
I wish I could, but Meowth's page has been protected and only admins can edit it. Sorry. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 01:57, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Fixed. I also removed the "released and/or" as, last I heard, we've only got implication of capture. Werdnae (talk) 04:05, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Meowth's Pokemon

Out of curiosity, why does Meowth not have a Pokemon section? He had brief ownership of Togepi's egg, and eggs have been listed on other pages (Ash's Zuruggu egg), so I dont see why it couldnt be added here. And there are probably a few Pokemon that could be considered "Temporary", "Befriended", or "Briefly Used" (did he ever use any of Jessie's or James's Pokemon?). Yes, he is a Pokemon, but so is Mewtwo. XVuvuzela2010X 18:03, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Uh... because Meowth is a Pokémon. Also, he didn't make the Pokémon like Mewtow did, so they didn't really belong to him. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 18:05, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Mewtwo didnt make Dragonite, Fearow, or the first Kanto starter clones, but he is still considered to have used them, so it shouldnt be any different for Meowth. XVuvuzela2010X 18:17, 2 August 2011 (UTC).
Okay, then try and make one and see what Kenji-girl says about it. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 18:28, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Oh, wait. Duh, the page is protected. Never mind. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 18:29, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
I'll bring it up with Kenji-girl later once I've had a look for which Pokemon he has used. Besides Togepi, all I know is that in A Scare to Remember, Meowth does use Pikachu, and explicitly orderes it to use Thunderbolt. XVuvuzela2010X 18:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
If I recall correctly, didn't Meowth attempt to command Ekans and Koffing (which failed) in Island of the Giant Pokémon? Weedle Mchairybug 22:01, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes, he did. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 22:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
There's also Ash's Phanpy. Portuguese Old Man 12:26, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Page title

Given that as of the latest Japanese episode Meowth is no longer a member of Team Rocket, shouldn'y this page be retitled 'Meowth (anime)'? Watchermark 10:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Didn't you watch last week's episode? This is only a plan. He's acting for whatever reason (500 buck says it's for Pikachu). Ataro 10:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
There's nothing to suggest that this was the plan. For all we know, the real plan involved something completely different and Meowth ****ed up royally, hence the firing. I'm all for the move. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talkcontribs) 12:24, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Basically, until we get any evidence (IE, Meowth plotting on out of earshot of Ash and his friends) that Meowth's firing was in fact part of the plan, we move it, or at least lock it until further notice. Weedle Mchairybug 16:54, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Nothing supporting it? You mean the part where they are seen talking to Giovanni (the guy who doesn't even want to talk to them for whatever reason at this point) isn't proof enough? Or the fact that they screwed up in Nimbasa (you know, where they haven't even started their plan in) isn't good enough? Ataro 17:03, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
All the stuff you stated does is support the notion they have a plan. It has not even been implied yet that the plan even involves Meowth essentially faked unemployment to infiltrate from within. For all we know, the plan in question involved something else offscreen that Meowth ended up botching. Until we have more concrete hints that Meowth's firing was faked (eg, the example above about how on-screen, yet out of earshot from the heroes, he exposits to himself that he's going to lead them into a trap, similar to how Angela Pickles revealed her backstab Tommy and the other tots when they were shrunk to enter Chuckie to extract a watermelon seed from him that he ate), the article needs to either be moved or closed. Weedle Mchairybug 18:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Here's all we know so far. Last week, the Rockets prepared their latest scheme. Meowth told the gang that TR were in the middle of an operation (possibly the scheme they were talking about last week) and Meowth messed up to such a degree that Giovanni himself fired them and Jessie and James turned their backs on him. We have absolutely NO proof that Meowth's firing is faked so this page should be moved. Like, when Ash's Aipom first appeared on the show her page was titled 'Aipom (anime)' and not 'Ash's Aipom' even though everyone knew Ash was going to capture her. So yeah, the title should be changed until if/when the firing is confirmed as faked. Watchermark 22:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I agree completely. It's the sensible course of action. Assuming that Meowth is merely pretending to be fired without proper proof is little more than speculation, which of course we frown upon here. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talkcontribs) 22:15, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I agree totally. Saying it's fake is speculation and the appropiate action would be moving it. --Pokemaster97 22:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
You guys are jumping the gun way too early. Let's think about the implications this would have on Bulbapedia rather than being "oh speculation is terrible" about it. What if we do go through with the move and then Meowth in a few episodes reveals that he is back with Team Rocket? So... we made a bunch of moves for nothing and we'll have to go around changing links again?
The fact that they used a flashback sequence to explained what happened to Meowth instead of showing everything live leaves good reason to believe this is all a plan. The scene in BW042 also heavily implies this. Yes it's speculation but saying that it is genuine is also speculation so early on given Team Rocket's history with scheming and lying.
Leaving it as Meowth (Team Rocket) is not the same as speculation and is certainly not the same as Ash's Aipom. He was at least a part of it at one time. With Aipom, she was not owned by anyone so therefor was left at Aipom (anime). I'd rather it just stay that way rather than making unnecessary moves that may have to be corrected in the future. And truthfully, I would not be comfortable with him staying as "Meowth (anime)" if he does go back with Team Rocket. --ケンジガール 23:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
We're still going to need a bit more concrete proof before we can deduce whether he is lying or not. Now, if he... I don't know, states on-screen, yet out of earshot of Ash's group that he is gonna lead them to a trap, then we can definitely say that his firing is fake, or at least have more than enough ground to support it even if it is not revealed to the group yet. It being a flashback could just as easily be true, just as showing it onscreen could make it false, really, so we really need to not assume he's still part of Team Rocket and remain neutral on the issue. Hey, personally, I don't see why it can't be a trap, but with the evidence we've got, even if I did believe he was faking, we can't prove it, so we have to wait and see, and so far things point to it being genuine. Basically, until we get more solid clues about whether he was truly fired or not (IE, he's seen calling Team Rocket on the phone, or, having him out of earshot of Ash's friends saying "what the Twerps don't know is that I haven't actually been fired, and that I'm luring them into a trap! [insert evil laughter here]"), we can't say he's still working with Team Rocket. Even you have to admit that, Kenji Girl. Weedle Mchairybug 00:18, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
I do not deny that he could very well not be working with Team Rocket anymore. I have no problem with the article saying he was fired from Team Rocket and wants to travel with the group. And I'm certainly not saying that him lying is fact is indeed a fact. What I do have a problem with is moving this article and changing thousands of links over something that may not be permanent. That is my main point. I want to wait and see just like you do. Not rush into it assuming that this is going to be a permanent change after just one episode. --ケンジガール 00:27, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Remember, the Pokémon that have been released or traded still have their original trainer's name in the article, except for Buizel and Aipom/Ambipom since the trade was between Ash and Dawn, and Haunter because it was uncaught in the first place. While the episode does confirm that Meowth is not trainer-owned IIRC, this should be the same. Plus, there's the possibility that Meowth was lying, and the use of a flashback certainly suggests this... Of course, if Meowth is actually caught by someone else, we will move it. Bwburke94 00:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Not that it matters, but technically, Sabrina (who can read minds) reacts to Ash's capture of Haunter as though he did indeed own it. Again, not that it matters. As for flashbacks, characters used flashbacks all the time in this show. Heck, Misty had flashbacks to nearly being eaten by a Gyarados and playing a tambourine, so it really doesn't suggest whether they actually were lying or not, so we really need more solid proof either way, especially in regards to lying. Weedle Mchairybug 04:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

It is kind of jumping the gun. What Kenji-Girl said changing thousand of links for a temporary thing. It's a ton of work. Let's just wait it out or at least untill it gets officially captured. --Pokemaster97 01:28, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't see why the links would have to change if the page move happens. All those non spoiler links would simply link to the Team Rocket redirect, just moving the page because of what is true at the time WITHOUT changing the links seems like a perfect solution to me. Then, we can start linking him as (anime) on the appropriate articles until he returns back to Team Rocket, which would also be true to what happens at the time. No unnecessary work. Everyone's happy. Everything's true. MaverickNate 02:34, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
I'd say that any moves shouldn't take place until after next week. After all, BW046 has nearly the same title as BW043, and between the two episodes stuff might be revealed, so I'd say leave it for now.
Additionally, the whole "change all links to Meowth (anime)" thing; it's just as spoilery as linking Ash's Cyndaquil as Ash's Quilava, but with text of Ash's Cyndaquil, throughout Johto. It's a huge spoiler for something that didn't happen for some 500 episodes. Just link the redirect, it's what they're there for. TTEchidna 02:47, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
That moving page but not changing links thing sounds good except for one thing. Users who didn't read this conversation will probably be drawn to changing the links themselves since they see a page has been moved. Then we'd have to revert them and warn them not to do it, thus more work. I guess you could put it up in the banner at the top of pages telling them not to do so but... iffy about that actually working. For waiting, I say we wait until we know exactly what's going on. As of BW046, it still seems like he's with them. --ケンジガール 06:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Then we ought make some sort of policy. No redirect spoilers. If Ash's Quilava was a Cyndaquil in the episode, it's linked as Ash's Cyndaquil, not Ash's Quilava. If Meowth was part of Team Rocket during the episode, it's linked as Meowth, not Meowth. TTEchidna 09:39, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
I hope that a hidden purpose of the upcoming Bulbapedia closure isn't moving this page and updating all links. Please don't do it. Give him ten episodes or so and then we'll see. For now, it should be taken as a potentially temporary change. --Maxim 12:29, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
But we wouldn't have to change any links manually if we make {{MTR}}'s result Meowth, right?--Den Zen 13:02, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a good idea! - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talkcontribs) 13:08, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
No it is not. The point is, we DON'T spoiler link. Changing links is one of the stupidest things possible to do. The way we do it is already exactly as TTE stated "If Meowth was part of Team Rocket during the episode, it's linked as Meowth, not Meowth." MaverickNate 14:59, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

So, with the new Spoiler-link policy being put into place, shall we go through with the move the longer we leave it, the more links we will have to change from MTR to an|Meowth anyway to componsate for his appearances with the group, and after all hasn't the entire second half of this disscussion been about reducing the workload Diamond Lanturn CodeName: 05308 02:19, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should move it until the dub comes out. First of all, not everyone is expected to understand Japanese, and second of all, it would be a spoiler for many. Satoshi101 03:57, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
If we didn't do anything until the dub came out, we'd have to delete Roggenrola, Palpitoad, Stunfisk, and BW035 - BW050. We don't expect everyone to understand Japanese. That's why we write the pages in English. That's also why subtitles exist. Jo the Marten ಠ_ಠ 04:18, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't see why people think it will be a spoiler. Meowth (anime) already redirects here, and has done since last year. And it's the only notable Meowth in the anime. Since Team Rocket do not actually own Meowth, the page title is incorrect anyway. And to be consistant, if another Rocket member, Jessie for example, had their page moved, would her page be moved to Jessie (anime), or Jessie (Team Rocket)? XVuvuzela2010X 04:28, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
To 05308, I do mean of course that we do not change links in past episodes. In EP145, we link to Ash's Cyndaquil, since it was a Cyndaquil at the time. In DP183, however, it's linked as Ash's Quilava, because that episode was after its evolution. Meaning Meowth stays as Meowth on all episodes prior to BW043, and if he stays with Ash and friends from now on (I'm still urging you guys to wait it out until BW046, though) make it so that from BW043 onward he gets linked as Meowth. Don't do any stupid speculative moving. They probably didn't reuse the Nyagotiator Nyarth title for nothing. TTEchidna 08:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I still would like to wait this out a little while longer. Truthfully, I don't think it's spoiling anything as Team Rocket as he was with Team Rocket once. And we do mention everywhere else that he was fired and traveling with the twerps. --ケンジガール 08:17, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
To those who think that they reused the "Nygotiator Nyarth" title to show that Meowth is executing an elaborate plan against Ash and co., have you noticed that it involves the very easy-to-annoy Beartic? RoryReloaded 23:13, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
AND there's nothing in this video that suggests Meowth's going to defect back to Team Rocket - it shows him NEGOTIATING with Beartic... RoryReloaded 23:19, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm curious what your point is. He's been Nyagotiating with all the Pokémon so far. Scrafty, Mandibuzz, Purrloin, Beheeyem...so...how does Beartic make any kind of a difference? Jo the Marten ಠ_ಠ 23:22, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
People are saying that the reuse of the "Nyagotiator Nyarth" title means that Meowth is going to lead Ash and co. into a trap or something; I'm saying that they're wrong - Meowth is just doing what he's been doing since BW043. RoryReloaded 23:29, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Since BW043? He's been doing this "Nyagotiating" for years, it's just now that it becomes focused on. Also, his "nyagotiating" is just something he has to do. I doubt he planned it. Ataro 23:43, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, BW046 has passed with no sense of allegiance change from Meowth... RoryReloaded 01:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
He'd probably re-join Team Rocket after awhile afterall he didn't let Iris "catch" him since he claimed that he belonged to no-one. If he truly was fired from Team Rocket and wanted to help Ash and his friends, I think Meowth should've let them capture him. And that way he would've still "belonged" to Iris. Therefore she'd probably just tell him to return to his Pokeball. Mr.Anonymous 10:59, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

New York Accent?

The article says Meowth has a New York accent. However, I listened to one and it sounded nothing like that. A friend also said that's not it, they couldn't even identify it. I think you guys should make sure you're describing it the right way. Satoshi101 04:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

It is a New York accent. It's one of the more stereotypically seen in cartoons kind of accent. Ataro 04:33, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Article Move Reasoning

I believe that the mainspace page should be moved to the new article: Meowth (anime). I am saying this because since he was fired from Team Rocket, he technically isn't one of Team Rocket's Pokémon or a member of the villanous group. That being said, the "(Team Rocket)" part of the current page no longer makes sense and should be moved to the new article. Unless he is re-admitted to the group, I believe that the page should remain as the newer one until he is re-admitted, if ever.

Pikachu9000 18:47, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I completely agree, it should be moved. Wynd Fox 18:01, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I think it should be although I think that he'll go back to team rocket, but for now, it should be moved Prinben 11:20, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
It's been hinted in a summary that Meowth makes his final decision in BW047/BW048. We should wait for their airing.--Den Zen 12:39, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Here's almost definite proof that Meowth will return to TR: his VA isn't in BW049.--Den Zen 13:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
That doesn't really prove anything if you ask me. It could just be that he's missing from that episode because of unknown reasons or it hasn't been confirmed that he'll appear in that episode yet Mr.Anonymous 11:02, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
In one of the episodes, I think BW044, Jessie says "what's gone is gone" when talking to James about Meowth. This doesn't prove that he won't return to Team Rocket, but It at least supports he really was fired. We should move this article.thanks, Catboy41. 15:51, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Did you read my comment? He won't be in BW049, so he can't be with Ash & co. anymore.--Den Zen 15:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Doesn't mean he leaves the group. Maybe he finally allowed Iris to catch him. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talkcontribs) 15:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Exactly. People keep saying wait it out, wait it out, but it keeps streching it out longer and longer. It could be November before we get any real conclusion. --Pokemaster97 16:02, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Just because Meowth doesnt appear in that episode doesnt mean he's rejoined Team Rocket. He probably doesnt appear because of some unknown reason. You cant simply assume that just because he doent appear it means hes gone back to Team Rocket. I say we wait it out before making any conclusions. And were probably not even certain Meowth doesnt appear. That episode hasnt aired in Japan yet. Mr.Anonymous 21:48, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
I think we should keep it where it is. Even if Meowth dosen't return to Team Rocket, he should still keep the title. I mean, he was on Team Rocket for most of the anime, and most people will associate him as such. That is why it needs to stay the same. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 00:23, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
What people associate him as =/= fact. Even if people still associate Meowth with Team Rocket, the fact remains that he was fired, and is thus NOT associated with Team Rocket anymore. I was under the impression Bulbapedia differentiated between opinion and fact. Opinion: Meowth is still associated with Team Rocket. Fact: He was fired. Canned. Given the boot. Read my fax. When stuff like this happens, pages are moved accordingly. When Misty's Togepi evolved, the page was moved to Misty's Togetic, even though people still associate it as being that cute little Togepi that Misty always carried around. To keep it at "Misty's Togepi" would have been, quite simply, inaccurate. It's the same thing here. Meowth is no longer with Team Rocket; ergo, to keep the page at "Meowth (Team Rocket)" would be inaccurate. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talkcontribs) 00:37, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, then why does pages like Team Rocket trio still exist? If he was fired, then he isn't part of it anymore, and thus it isn't a trio. It dosen't really make that much sense. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 00:40, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Many of the team rocket pages are outdated and need to be updated accordingly. Someone needs to make a decision on this soon because this debate will never end. --Pokemaster97 00:43, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
@SuperAipom7. We DON'T know if Meowth really was fired from Team Rocket. For all we know it could be a setup. Until we have confirmation. I think Bulbapedia wants to keep it as Meowth(Team Rocket). And the ONLY reason Togepi was moved to Togetic was because we KNEW that Misty's Togepi evolved. Mr.Anonymous 00:46, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
But like Missingno. said it's speculation to assume he wasn't fired. One of Bulbapedia's "rules" is no speculation in articles. So why does this get an exception?? --Pokemaster97 00:52, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
We're not moving it yet. It's not official. Like Pokemaster97 said, no speculation. Also, it's going to be a lot of hassle if we move it now and realize it goes to Team Rocket later. --☆YoshisWorld☆ 00:55, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Even if we move it to Meowth (anime), it would still technically be true because he is an anime character. However, we should still probably keep it. :--SuperAipom7 (Wanna chat?) 01:14, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Until We get confirmation Meowth WAS/WASN'T actually fired, I think we should leave it. Mr.Anonymous 01:36, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Actually, didn't Jessie mention "What's gone is gone" to James in reference to Meowth in one of the more recent episodes? Sure, it might not 100% confirm that Meowth won't return to Team Rocket, but it at least supports that Meowth was indeed fired. Weedle Mchairybug 10:58, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
What's unconfirmed about this? The episode was aired was it not? KPF 18:35, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
It hasn't been officially confirmed that Meowth being fired from Team Rocket was a hoax. Jessie could've been saying that to make it look like he was actually fired. For all we know Giovanni could've planned this. Mr.Anonymous 21:38, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Oh guys. We've had this discussion before. And it always ended with us not moving it yet. Well, if you want to see what the head of anime thinks about this, talk to Kenji-girl. And yet, we've already seen up there in a past discussion that she doesn't want to move it. --☆YoshisWorld☆ 21:54, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Okay... Can someone please explain what she would have to gain about trying to lie about Meowth's status of being fired: namely, Mr. Anonymous? I mean, correct me if I am mistaken, but I don't think Ash and Co. were even nearby when Jessie said this to James, so I don't see why she'd have to lie to make it seem as though Meowth's termination of employment was legitimate. Plus, given Team Rocket being a lot more serious now, I don't see how they'd even break the fourth wall, either. Weedle Mchairybug 23:28, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
That's because it's for the viewers. Shows do this all the time to try and trick us into thinking what's happening (Meowth's being fired) is actually happening so it be a big shocker when the truth finally comes out. It's been done many times before. Ataro 23:31, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, if they are going to do this, they'd better give a darn good in-universe explaination as to why Jessie and James acted that way. It might work out-of-universe, but what I care about is why it happened in-universe, which is significantly different. To give you an example, the out-of-universe explaination for why they had Severus Snape appear to be the one going after the Sorcerer's Stone (or for those outside America, the Philosophers' Stone) and kill Harry Potter was as a red herring for the readers until the plot twist. In-universe, the explainations for the evidences were that he was trying to counter Quirrel's attempt to kill Harry, and he was injured by Fluffy when he attempted to stop Quirrel from entering the passageways. Besides, considering the fact that Rugrats had Angela Pickles practically gloating out of earshot of the rugrats that she intends to essentially grow the watermelon seed in Chuckie's belly while the other rugrats are attempting to prevent it from growing, I don't see why they wouldn't do something similar with Meowth/Team Rocket? Weedle Mchairybug 23:50, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
I have to agree with you in many ways. But still. I'm not in charge of the anime, I'm not in charge of anything at all. But, as I've said before, WE'RE NOT MOVING IT YET. Also, nobody seems to care much about the Team Rocket trio page, I'm not seeing much of a discussion as this. We're all concerned about Meowth, yet, the same thing will have to happen with that page. --☆YoshisWorld☆ 00:06, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
I just think you guys are overthinking this, it takes one second to move an article. If its a hoax, then it'll take one second to move it back. KPF 01:36, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
There, Meowth is back in Team Rocket. Discussion, can we consider it 100% dropped? Ataro 09:16, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, I guess that's that. I hope that they at least explain in-universe why Jessie mentioned "What's gone is gone" to James, because, tricking the viewers or not, it still doesn't make sense in-universe. Had I been writing the show, I would have made absolute certain that that tidbit was also explained in terms of in-universe explainations. Weedle Mchairybug 14:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Or BW046 not try to use Quick Guard? This could add to the Moves Improvised.Pawel10s 12:54, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

So now that we know Meowth is back with Team Rocket. It should stay Mr.Anonymous 21:26, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


Okay, okay. Settle down everyone! Since I was the one who originally started this article, I can end it as well, which is exactly what I'm going to do. Here's why I'm doing that:

1. There are far too many comments that detract from the meaning of the article itself.

2. I originally made this article to state my opinion and the reasoning behind it, not to make a chatroom. If you want to do that, go to the Forums or a Social Networking site to do so, not here.

3. I just read that in the last line in the "In the Anime" section on the mainspace article that, and I quote, "However, in BW047, it was revealed that Meowth's being fired was fake and all just another one of Team Rocket's schemes." That means that I was wrong, I admit it, and that there is no need to make this article any longer than it already is. If you still don't believe me, that's your own problem and you should just wait for the dub of the episode in the language(s) you speak.

Thanks for contributing to this article nonetheless! And now, I pronounce this article DEAD. Thanks for making this an extremely comprehensive article though! Have a nice day!

Pikachu9000 21:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)