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Talk:Kris (game)

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Kris.png

Just a question, but where exactly is "Kris" the official spelling? "Crys" or "Crystal" make more sense to me, considering the names of the other heroes.--Biccy 19:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It's in the list of available names. TTEchidnaFire echyGSDS! 20:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, the back of the US Crystal box says in one area, "New female trainer Kris faces the Unown." If that and the screenshot are not confirmation enough, I don't know what is. --Shiningpikablu252 21:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
>>; It's been many a year since I looked at the box, but gotcha.--Biccy 19:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Is this worth adding?

Is it worth adding? ~~Takoto - サソデイ 11:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Stretched, enlarged GBC overworld sprite? Think not... --Maxim 12:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Isn't it darker than usual? tc²₆tc26 12:03, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, and it's just an overworld sprite. I don't think it's worth adding. --AT 12:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah sorry, I let my brother mess around on my account because he said he wanted to do some editing (but was too lazy to make his own). Sorry for the trouble. ~~Takoto - サソデイ 16:29, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

MERGE TIIIIME

Yes or no. Soul is Kris. Merge it here? TTEchidna 19:28, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Source? - Pokéman 21:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Look at bulbanews. If you need a link, top of the news stuff on the main page. --ルレ 21:59, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
How does that confirm that Soul is Kris? - Pokéman 22:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Ask the Echidna. You do realize that he's the Editor-in-Chief, right? --ルレ 22:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, but what does that have to do with this? - Pokéman 22:09, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
No. Don't merge. One thing from Crystal does not mean everything from Crystal. --ケンジガール 22:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Seconded. - Pokéman 22:26, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Let's just say hypothetically that she is Soul, but the game drops the name Kris but keeps Soul. Does that mean we start calling her Soul? --ケンジガール 22:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Pretty much, yea. If there's no concrete evidence relating her to Kris, then she's a completely new character. TheChrisD RantsEdits 14:45, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Do we know for sure?

The article's "Trivia" section clearly states that Kris "is not the female choice" in HeartGold and SoulSilver. However, it is not clear whether she and Soul are the same character or not. In addition, all other articles with information pertaining to the subject are in possession of far greater neutrality. I suggest that this text be changed to read "is believed not to be the female choice". I'd do it myself, but it seems that the article has been Protected, and therefore, only an Administrator can make the suggested change. Anyone agree with me? This message brought to you by Glitchipedia, the falsified encyclopedia 03:17, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Should we add?

Since some people don't know about Soul yet, can't there be a link to Soul(game) at the top?--The Bulb's Master 01:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC) Master of Bulbasaur and Turtwig♀

Why? It's at the bottom. TTEchidna 03:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't see that! But shouldn't we put like: This is about the female hero of Crystal. If your'e looking for the female hero of HeartGold and SoulSilver, Please click here. --The Bulb's Master is the Master of Bulbasaur, Turtwig, and, most reacently, Chikorita. 16:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Can't someone talk!?!--The Bulb's Master is the Master of Bulbasaur, Turtwig♀, and most reacently, Chikorita♂ 13:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the point in even having a separate article for the HG/SS design. It's the same storyline and they're both the female player character in it, so it makes more sense to put them into a single article regardless of whether they are the same character or not.-Jeff(talk) 16:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Err

I was going to add Kris' backsprite (KrisBack.png) to the article, not realizing the page was protected... could somebody do this for me or should I just wait until after HGSS come out? T_T ZestyCactus 04:55, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Kotone/Soul

This should probably be updated to reflect Soul's real name (Kotone) and how she is definitely a new character/Kris' replacement/etc, I'd do it myself but the page is still protected. :P ZestyCactus 00:18, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I was just about to add a section about this myself. But seriously, Admin's you need to get on the ball when it comes to Relinking! I would do it myself as well, but; like Zesty said; It's protected. ShinyPika 03:28, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Confirmation that Soul and Kris are separate chars

I just looked at Serebii and noticed that Soul is present in the preview pics for the next episode in Japan. When that episode airs, we should know for sure whether or not Soul and Kris are the same character, as we have seen Marina (Kris's anime counterpart) in the past. --ルレ 21:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

That's kinda... old news. D: also, her official name according to Pokémon Sunday is actually Kotone, not Soul. :P ZestyCactus 21:59, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Unblock the page

It's not like anything needs to be protected, what with Kotone's revelation and all. --Bulbafan 00:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC) My talk page

The lookalike?

Is it a trainer class, NPC in Pokémon Stadium 2, it needs to be more specific.--Midnight Blue 01:04, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

You're right. Does anyone have a pic of it? By the way MB, you did your sig twice... CuboneKing 01:05, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh I did?, I'm sorry, did not mean to. Anyways, can we trace back to whoever wrote it in and get more info? To see if there is a lookalike.--Midnight Blue 01:07, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
It was Zesty. CuboneKing 01:10, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
S2 Heroine.png This is the Stadium 2 girl when you use a Crystal game with Kris selected as the player character. Not very alike other than the hair... vaguely... →Tinā δ 01:22, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
That looks nothing like Kris. I'm removing the trivia. CuboneKing 01:24, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
The only place I saw Kris's picture (i.e. an actual Kris picture) in Stadium 2 was in the credits against the rival. --Shiningpikablu252 03:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Can you provide a screen shot?--Midnight Blue 03:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
In retrospect she's more of a female Red lookalike than a Kris lookalike, but she still only appears if you're playing as Kris... so I reworded it as more of a side note. ZestyCactus 05:10, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
I'd say that she's more similar to Kotone. But it's just me. But she's as much Kris's "counterpart" as the player boy is both Red's and Gold's counterpart. Why don't we have them mentioned on their respective pages? However, the thing on her icon appearing in Stadium 2 credits is TOTALLY worth noting. I'll try to beat Silver and get the screenshot of credits. --Maxim 18:14, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Kris in Pokemon Stadium 2

Kris PS2.png This is the only thing I can do, if it's not good enough, then, is there a way to get it from the game? It's in the credits just to add.--Midnight Blue 02:08, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a way of taking screenshots? CuboneKing 02:03, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, i took that from my computer from a youtube video, and I cropped it just to show that she appears in the game. But, I have no other way to get a pic of her.--Midnight Blue 02:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I can hopefully get a better screenshot, I just need to know where exactly in the game that image appears. Does it appear anywhere else in the game besides the credits? Jello 02:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure, i was watching the ending and just noticed her. If you can get a better pic, it would be nice. I might look at the ending again to see if there anything else useful.--Midnight Blue 02:11, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, I wouldn't recommend capturing off a Youtube video, but a Youtube video does make a good reference for time code references. Try this video around the 3:48 mark; bottom right of the battle scene, Kris's icon appears in her original Crystal incarnation (for obvious reasons; odds are her HeartGold and SoulSilver redesign probably wasn't even on the drawing board yet), with the opposite corner having the Generation II rival. It's the second-to-last such scene played in the credits (the last such scene, the one after Kris's appearance, has an interesting anime allusion involving Blue and Red). --Shiningpikablu252 02:27, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Kris appears there because... Stadium 2 was Generation II. Duh? That's like saying that Ash in his Kanto/Orange/Johto clothes in an old episode is because they hadn't thought of the Hoenn or Sinnoh outfits yet. It's... because that's what he wore. TTEchidna 02:32, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Merger tiems

So Crystal is dressed in Lyra's outfit in the HGSS chapter, just like how Green was dressed as Leaf. Like the RGB girl who never made it in is Leaf, the GSC girl who never made it in until Crystal is Lyra. Lyra is Kris, and Ethan is Gold. Maxim, you can feel free to blow a gasket now, but the fact that she has two anime counterparts means nothing, because so does Red. TTEchidna 06:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

There is one difference here, there is early RGB game art that features Green, which proves that she was indeed a planned character in the RGB story. No such hints exist for Kris as far as I know (?), and since the games are the ultimate canon in the franchise, it would be more assuring to have concrete evidence from the game canon that Lyra is Kris. This could be a case like Adventure's confirmation that Giovanni was Silver's father, but as I recall, we didn't take that as 100% confirmed canon until we got confirmation via HGSS. Trainer-c 06:36, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't see why it would be impossible for them to be separate characters in the games, yet the same character in Adventures on the basis that the artists are lazy. Interested persons may also wish to see Talk: Lyra (game). —darklordtrom 06:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

is it just mere stupidity or a matter of unacceptability that people here cannot face the fact that lyra is indeed kris reasons:

1) lyra is a vast design of kris which infact shown on how the manga artist of adventures doesn't use a color blue hair for kris but brown.
2) kris is indeed a beta design for lyra because during that time the color scheme for lyra's hair was not available for gameboy color.
3) how the f*** told you that this character's name is kris is it just fan name like how ethan was named gold before he was officially named.
4) look at her clothes does it clearly resembles the one lyra was wearing even the hair style they just add a ribbon on her hat you didn't recognize her.
5) and lastly she could have two anime counterpart like how ash and ritchie is based on red.

Badwolf1234 08:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Eh... I've seen that coming. There is one thing that makes me mad. That Ritchie is saw as Red's counterpart here. Ritchie is a counterpart of Ash, there's nothing in him that could be based directly on Red. His team is pretty much Ash's team, the clothes are even less similar to Red's ones than Ash's. Ash is the only real Red's countepart. Also, look at what Kusaka have done with the Team Rocket Executives. This makes his decision on Lyra/Kris even less reliable. We've got two contradicting ones. I don't see how we should trust Special but not the anime - I can see why people think that Special is better and conveys the game world much better than anime. But it's still not the same thing. We've got no proof on the game's side on who "Lyra" really is (or rather, who Kris really is). It's also annoying how so many people compare this situation to Blue/"Leaf". She was just a beta design for RGB. We don't even know if they really wanted to put her in the game. Kris, on the other side, was a FINAL thing. And she had her blue hair even in the artwork. It doesn't have anything to do with the GBC pallette. We should not judge the games by other canons, since if we ignore them, there is nothing that could confirm either scenario (aside from some fan-worked "patterns"). It's simply safer to consider them separate for the games. The "battle" between New-Lyra and Old-Lyra is now 1:1. It's a draw. And draw means, that we must not change anything. --Maxim 11:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Usually I sit back and mind my own buisness, but this time... I'll have to disagree with you TTE. Look, Lyra and Kris. Both got their own official names. Also, they have different looks. Very different. Two different anime counterparts as well, although you say that doesn't count. Pokemon Adventures does not matter, they just did that because they didn't have a name for Lyra. They can't name her after the recent games, because they are basically Gold and Silver. Also, what about in the Gold and Silver arc? With Chermaine and Keane. Does that mean we have to fuse their articles with Archer and Arianna? Maybe they just dropped Krys to add a new spin for HG/SS? Either way, I don't think that they are the same person. Littlmiget123 12:45, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I kind of feel the same way about keeping the articles apart. Crystal winding up in Lyra's clothing isn't conclusive on the matter at all. I could say the reason it was done so was because the "versions" of HG and SS are already covered in Gold and Silver and so as to not create a protagonist that would fall out of the version name theme. It's one thing to create a character for a version, such as Emerald and Yellow, but to need to sort out a version issue for a new character? Better to go with the easy way out (by amalgamating the two), than having to wage war on what to call the new character that continues the theme (when there's no possible way to). Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:39, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I think the games and anime should stay apart still. Marina (Johto) and Lyra (anime) are completely different characters, and Kris (game) and Lyra (game) are completely different characters. Just because the manga was too lazy to make a new character doesn't mean anything. The manga is hardly official cannon, as stated above. While it does give good second opinions, it does not trump the games and anime. Blake Talk·Edits 13:57, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
The anime doesn't trump the manga either. They're too different to compare. And since there's no proof between collaborative effort between anyone from GF and Kusaka, no one can use it as proof that he's doing what GF meant for it to be all along: that they are the same. Honestly though, if they meant for Lyra to be Kris, why is Ethan still retain the major traits of Hiro, but Lyra get nothing from Kris...except maybe her short-shorts and redecoed pigtails? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
The anime appears on Pokemon.com. The manga doesn't. That sort of makes the anime more official then Adventures. Plus, really, if you look at both of them, they don't really look anything alike. Gold and Ethan look alike 5x more then Kris and Lyra do. Blake Talk·Edits 15:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
No manga appears on Pokemon.com that isn't based on the anime. Which is the point. They're an entirely different venture. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I think the only thing this proves is that a hypothetical "Adventures Lyra" does not exist, with Crystal taking the role on. Adventures also seems less apt to just go out and retcon things in the continuity, where, obviously, Gamefreak doesn't mind retconning various things in the games if the Johto Regional Pokédex means anything. And didn't Pokémon Sunday say that they were different characters, or is that a fandom myth?--Purimpopoie 16:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Either it's a fandom myth, or Gold and Ethan are also different characters. Nobody in their right mind would think one was a redesign and the other is a replacement--the only reasons anyone would buy would either be "if Gold is Ethan then Kris is Lyra" or "if Kris is not Lyra then Gold is not Ethan". Nobody in their right mind would buy "Gold is Ethan but Kris is not Lyra"; it would also take a loony to claim that "Gold is not Ethan but Kris is Lyra". Do keep in mind that several Crystal elements made their way into the game as well; as far as I'm concerned, the female player character is one of them. --Shiningpikablu252 16:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
No, it's entirely possible to think "Ethan = Gold but Lyra =/= Kris," because Kris and Lyra look nothing alike, compared to Ethan and Gold, who basically got his same clothing upgrade, and doesn't stray far at all from his original design. All the Crystal elements in the world do not prove one way or another that Lyra is, in fact, meant to be Kris (and it's only our opinion [at this point] if she is or isn't), on the principle that neither Silver nor Gold got so completely retcon'd in their 2.0 appearance. Also, if she was meant to be the epitome of Kris, why isn't she being treated like Kris? Why does Lyra exist as a separate entity from Ethan, when Kris and Hiro were interchangeable (akin to Red and Leaf)? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:39, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
First off, let me say, Pikablu, that you shouldn't be going around and calling users insane or looney. That's just mean, and is technically cyber-bullying.
Also, Luna Tiger is right. Gold is Ethan. Gold wasn't his official name and HG/SS gave him one. Obviously Gold and Ethan are the same person. Lyra and Marina (I call her Marina, so if you see Marina, I mean Krys) have a huge difference between each other. Like I said before, if you fuse Lyra and Marina, that'd be like fusing Chermaine with Arianna, even though they are two different characters. Littlmiget123 18:19, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Wah, cyber-bullying. I see that... term, to use the word loosely, I think instantly one of two things: user is not to be taken seriously, or user is a complete wimp. It's the internets, grow a thicker skin.
As for Gold not being his official name... well look at the first dang page of the instruction book for Gold. Ta dah! Gold! And it's one N, dammit. TTEchidna 21:13, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I was just stating that for his sake, not for mine. Honestly, I could care less what people call me, but he's gotten in trouble for this before. And I'm sorry, but does it really matter how to spell it, though? You know who I'm talking about XD Littlmiget123 21:18, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Just to point it out, the "official" naming of Kris as "Kris" was only on the US box from what I can tell. The back of the Japanese box (seen here) doesn't refer to her as "クリス" at all, but as "女の子の主人公" (the full sentence includes Gold, who is merely called 男の子[の主人公], the "主人公" part implied by the use of the particle). However, I have no access to the manual to say it wasn't in there either. Either way, "Gold" became Hibiki/Ethan despite being referred to as "Gold" in the manual, and yet similar evidence is used to keep "Kris" separate from Kotone/Lyra? Kotone is not completely different from "Kris" as people are claiming, so I don't get why these characters with the same situation as Gold/Hibiki/Ethan are being kept separate. The only place these two are confirmed to be separate people is in the anime. --NyaChan 21:57, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

(reset indent) Mind if I butt in? I think that they gave Kris Lyra's clothes in Adventures because if they made a new character, what were they going to name her? "HeartGold" or "SoulSilver"? CuboneKing 22:02, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Indent reset~
Just because they're the same in the manga doesn't make them the same in the games. If this is "proof" they're the same, then Lyra in the anime is just as much proof that they're different. Reign 22:15, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure ハート/Heart or ソウル/Soul. It's not like the fandom didn't call her one of the two before her name was revealed. They gave Kris Kotone's clothes because she's supposed to be a redesign of Kris, not a new character. Her hair is a clear show of that. Yes, it's not blue nor does it have that wacky 90-degree bend, but can anyone really say it's completely different? After all, PokéSpe HGSS Kris looks like what a PokéSpe Kotone would probably look like, with slightly darker hair.
But still, personally I don't like how Gold = Hibiki/Ethan when we can say he was called "Gold" in the manuals while Kris =/= Kotone/Lyra because her name was on the back of the box. They're similar situations, so I don't get why one merges and the other doesn't. And that has nothing to do with the anime/manga. :/ --NyaChan 22:19, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
If they're meant to be the same, then why didn't the anime make them the same as well? Manga canon and game canon are seperate, and just because it's true in one does not mean it's true in the other. Reign 22:22, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
As are game canon and anime canon. What I think the reasoning is for calling Kotone/Lyra by her game name rather than "Marina" is because of the game name = anime name that they seem to like doing these days. Also, "Marina" and "Jimmy" can be point to why "Kris" and "Gold" weren't real names for them, but I won't go into that. However, my second point still stands. Ignoring both anime and manga canon, Gold/Hibiki/Ethan was in similar situation as Kris/Kotone/Lyra. He was called "Gold" in the manual while she was called "Kris" on the back of the box. Why is one joined and the other not? --NyaChan 22:37, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Because Gold and Ethan look almost exactly the same. If they meant for Gold and Ethan to be different, they would have given the male player a completely new design, which they didn't. However, Kris and Lyra look nothing alike. CuboneKing 22:41, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm aware game and anime canon are seperate as well. The point with Ethan is he's pretty clearly Gold, his design hasn't changed much at all. Lyra, however, only has the hair to go by. It's never made clear in the games if they're the same, they are the same in the manga, and they're clearly different in the anime. Sooo I think we shouldn't assume either way and leave them seperate until someone at GameFreak pretty much outright says it. Reign 22:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
You can't really say they are the same character because their hair looks alike. Their hair is not really similar at all. As you sated, I think Lyra in the anime and games is a whole different character. Just because Crystal dresses as Lyra, doesn't mean they are, in other cannon, the same character. Pokemon Adventures =/= official cannon for everything. It is written by a third party. Blake Talk·Edits 22:50, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Urgh, I really hate this argument because it's really clear Kotone is just a vast redesign of Kris. Why does the fact she got a larger overhaul than Hibiki mean she's a new person. She's not. Kotone's design is clearly based off Kris, no matter how vastly redesigned. Seriously, why does this make her a brand new character. It's not just the hair, her outfit shares a similar color scheme, she still has the hoodie part, and her overalls have shorts rather than a skirt they could have opted for, and her shirt is red as well. I find it funny people were quick to call her a Mario clone, but fail to see the similarities to a character design in the same franchise. --NyaChan 22:51, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
What harm is it to keep them separate, when official they have not been announced as the same character? It does not help anything to merge them. Blake Talk·Edits 22:53, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm of the same opinion Blake's got. And NyaChan, believe me, I wanted Lyra ot be Kris when she was first revealed. But I'm not seeing any of those similarities you're listing at all beyond hair - and even then, the color is different. Reign 22:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm got the same opinion as you two. It's not officially announced, and there are hardly any similarities. CuboneKing 22:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Nor does it harm to merge it. =3= The only problem I see is people will whine about how they think Kotone is "toooootally different from 'Kris'". As for the blue hair thing: Blue hair is no longer relevant (since blue = signature color for Crystal version), thus they changed it to brown. And wasn't it mentioned somewhere between this and Kotone's talk page that prototype designs for "Kris" had her with brown hair anyways? As for you not seeing the similarities: You seriously can't see both girls have a red shirt, have some form of shorts and have white/red as prominent colors in their outfit? Huh, guess I must be going even more blind. --NyaChan 23:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Okay, so there's some similarities in color, but I wouldn't sya enough to support it. And Kris only ever had brown hair in the manga, if I remember right. But back to the point I was making: Confirmation in the manga does not equal confirmation in the games. And until someone at GameFreak comes out and says "Lyra and Kris are the same", then I don't believe they should be merged. Reign 23:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
And it does harm to merge the two, because what if it turns out they /are/ separate characters? Then you have to unmerge them. Whereas leaving them unmerged only to learn of sure they are the same person...less work and not guess work (because wouldn't it be silly if we were right the first time, and wrong the second, only to correct it?). There is no solid, indisputable proof she is or isn't meant to be Kris. We're not talking Crystal, we're not talking Marina; we're talking Kris, and game canon is game canon, and no manga or anime canon is going to have a same in what game canon is. Because we can argue this left and right, there's no standing why they should be merged. They should be treated as two different people until otherwise stated. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 23:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Also, what exactly makes the Pokemon Adventures manga cannon? Because Satoshi Tajiri said "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey."? He said that over 10 years ago. That doesn't mean everything in it is 100% cannon. Blake Talk·Edits 00:12, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
"Game canon is not anime/manga canon". Yeah. Well then Kris never existed, nor did Leaf. Deletion time. TTEchidna 00:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
No, it's "Anime/manga canon isn't game canon." Special says they are, anime says they aren't, and the games vouch for neither. What's the justification when the manga isn't proof? Because otherwise, Leaf would be Green, now wouldn't she? Since Special must be right. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 01:04, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

There were only 2 reasons that Lyra wasn't Kris. One was because they had two separate anime counterparts. However, Crystal was the counterpart that they both shared. So both cancel each other out. Another reason is that they look vastly redesigned as opposed to Ethan and Silver. But Morty and Sabrina were also vastly redesigned as opposed to their fellow Gym Leaders. Kris/Lyra play the same role and have similar enough features. They're as about as recognizable to each other as RGBY!Red is to FRLG!Red. Pocketfanmk 02:55, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The "similar features" being gender and hairstyle...
The difference between Lyra and the Red or Gym Leaders is there is absolutely no doubt the Gym Leaders and Red are meant to be who they are. The games pretty clearly state it. But the only evidence that Kris and Lyra are the same is in the manga, and the manga one isn't the same characters as the game ones. Whereas game-wise it doesn't say anything either way. And to coutner the manga, the anime has them as two distinct people.
Until someone at GF comes out and says "Lyra is Kris", then the merge should nt tbe done.Reign 03:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Sorry if anyone was offended by my "loony" comment. Wasn't aimed at anyone specific, mind you. Gotta remain in good standing so I don't end up the second sysop ever to end up on probation, despite all this fire getting tossed around...
Anyway, what's keeping said Game Freak staffer from explicitly saying Gold is not Ethan? Maybe we ought to get wind of this argument over to Game Freak's ears, then we'll probably get something...--Shiningpikablu252 03:20, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
What do you mean there is no other evidence? They play the same role: the Johto female protagonist. Other Crystal elements were retained; why wouldn't she be retained too? Plus, if she was really a new character, wouldn't she have been advertised as such when her artwork first surfaced?
Let's also keep this in mind. They renamed the Tin Tower, added two routes and a Safari Zone, changed Kanto's into Pal Park... What's so strange about renaming a girl who had a version-name (Kris, from Crystal) in Gen II a normal name in Gen IV? Ethan did it. TTEchidna 09:03, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Nothing, if there was more than a single manga series saying it. I'm not saying Lyra couldn't be Kris, but unless it's actually confirmed for the game character, I don't believe they should be merged. Isn't that Bulbapedia's policy anyway? Don't add it unitl we're 100%, and as far as the game versions of these characters go we aren't. Reign 09:57, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes. Exactly. And this is also why I'm against any kind of voting about the matter. Because in this case voting will be merely a battle of opinions, not any officially confirmed stuff, which the policy tells us to follow. Having them in separate articles is simply safer. We don't insist that Brock (anime) is a separate character from Brock, do we? As long as there's no official word about the identity of her in the games. It's currently a draw between the anime and PokeSpe. And draw isn't deciding. I know, TTE, that you want this to be moved desperately but what's the sense of Bulbapedia's existence when it becomes an admin's personal playground of his crazy theories about fandom, instead of a reliable source of information? "Why couldn't rename and redesign her, if they did X, Y, Z before" isn't a reason. "Why not" is never a reason. As long as we don't get any more official "hints" about the matter, then we can talk about the change. As for now, we should leave everything as-is. Also, if we state that Kris MAY be an old version of Lyra (as she is in PokeSpe) clearly on the main head of the article, no one should really get offended. Bulbapedia isn't a place where heated battles of opinions should happen (especially when started by admins). Let's try to be objective and chill the hell out. --Maxim 12:02, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Maxim, I totally 100% agree with you. We should keep the articles separate until official sources say so (keyword = official). Bulbapedia is all about true informomation, unlike the Pokemon wiki, who last time I visited, said that there was a over 200 new Pokemon, and an article on each one. Reason why I came here, it had true stuff about Pokemon! It got rid of all 'fan speculation' and all that crap that was out there. I understand that TTE is an admin and all, but to me, he's a regular person right now. If we merge the article of Krys and Lyra, then we'll turn into Pokemon wiki. Honestly, I don't want that to happen. Littlmiget123 12:14, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
What, are you kidding me? All you guys are just whiners that HGSS isn't exactly the same game as GSC. Wah they moved Suicune, wah Bell Tower, wah Johto dex, wah Lyra's not Kris. If Lyra is not Kris, then Leaf is not based on the unreleased Gen I girl. TTEchidna 18:32, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
We aren't whining, so stop acting silly. The difference is, Kris was a real character. Green/pre-leaf was just a few pieces of art. Blake Talk·Edits 18:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I could care less about HG/SS. That's not what this discussion is about. It's about keeping characters separate. And I dunno about you, but I've never seen any pics with Green's face? Just her back with Blastoise on R/B/G. For all we know, her face could have looked like a wooly mammoth, but that's beside the point. I would say something, but it's not my right to say it. Littlmiget123 19:17, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm not whining, I'm saying we follow Bulbapedia's policy. You know, don't add until we're absolutely, no-doubt certain. And the thing is, as far as the game versions of these characters go, we aren't. I thought an admin of all people would be trying to enforce this policy, TTE, not directly go against it. Reign 19:19, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
You know what, TTE? You just revealed your true colors. You just showed everyone that you're a whiner who wants everything on Bulbapedia to be as he wants. All that I used in this discussion were rational reasons. So did most people who agreed with me. And then, when a discussion seemed to shape up and a bud of a reasonable consensus was forming, you just came in baaaawing and whining and accusing OTHER PEOPLE of whining. It was miserable, man. What you just did is funny and sad at the same time. Go on, TTE. Merge the pages. You can even ban me if you want. You just want to merge the pages so there's nothing we can do. But why did you even start the discussion if you just wanted to merge the pages uncompromisingly from the start? I'm disappointed at you, TTE. I'm disappointed on Bulbapedia. I might have been whining about HGSS in the past, sure. But for this matter, you are the only whiner that I can see around. --Maxim 19:40, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
W-wait a minute! Let's keep this civilized, people, please? This is a discussion, we don't need to be name calling. Although I am slightly confused at why TTE would abandon his own rules like this, there is still no need for name calling! Littlmiget123 19:47, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Okay. But how can I treat a person whose only reason is "You're all just stupid whiners, so you must all STFU" in the middle of a sensible discussion? It's a blatant proof that someone has no true reasons. And I think it should be also the end of this comedy. I just said how I see TTE's last activity in this talk. And I tried to do this calmly and clearly at the same time. I didn't mean for any "name-calling", I just wanted to make him get rid of the whiny emotions that restrain his mind. --Maxim 19:53, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
To lighten the mood a bit, what's this about Betagirl looking like a woolly mammoth?
woollymammoth.png
梅子 19:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Lmao! Umeko, you are now my most favorite person. Lol, that's so funny! At least now I know where to go if I'm down. Would you mind if I asked you to send that to me by my e-mail? - unsigned comment from Littlmiget123 (talkcontribs)
Haha, it was my pleasure. :3 Not sure why you need it sent by email, if you want to save it you can just right-click→save as...
And to actually contribute something to the conversation here, I don't think the two should be merged. Kris was at least notable in that she was the very first female PC implemented into the game, if nothing else. :/ 梅子 20:00, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Lol, I'm still laughing about that. I started crying I was laughing so hard. You made me forget to sign XP. Oh, okay then. I saved it, that's so awesome! And that's true about the first playable female character. You can't really put that on a page called 'Lyra'? I don't know this discussion is getting ridiculous. Plus, the bottom section proves that this was just a bunch of baloney. Littlmiget123 20:06, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


Word from Game Freak about Kris and Lyra's identity problem

Regarding the identity debate that has resurfaced in light of the latest manga development, I believe that Game Freak may not have been so vague, after all. According to the bottom of this page [[1]], Takao Unno (HeartGold and SoulSilver's art director) was quoted in a Nintendo Dream interview as saying that "Lyra is a new character that was not designed with the female player character from Pokémon Crystal in mind". I've been aware of this page for some time now, but I've refrained from mentioning it until now since it also claims that some (possibly the same) interview clarified that the programmers of Pokéwalker did not recognize its resemblance to the Pocket Pikachu pedometer. This claim is refuted by the famous "Iwata Asks" interview [[2], where Ishihara states that the Pokéwalker is the successor to Pocket Pikachu (it was Nintendo and Creatures that had forgotten about Pocket Pikachu when they developed a pedometer game called Activity Meter).

That said, I'm inclined to take the quote about Kris and Lyra at face value, but I don't want to see it misused until we can verify the source (which I believe is the Nintendo Dream issue released in last September). It does make one wonder what Ken Sugimori's role in all of this was; is it possible that Lyra's illustration was drawn by Takao Unno instead? -Unown Lord 20:01, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Amen! --Maxim 20:05, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
And I hope that's the end of that.Reign 20:08, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. --Maxim 20:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I want fellow members to help me find that interview, as opposed to patting themselves on the back for (probably) being right. -Unown Lord 20:18, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Thank you very much, Unown Lord. You just saved us about 2 more days worth of fighting. I'd read the article, but I can't read japanese XD Littlmiget123 20:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
1. Another source stating the interview. As far as I can read and make something out of electronical translations, it seems like "The Female Protagonist of HeartGold/SoulSilver was created from scratch, without the consciousness of Crystal Female". Though, I'd like someone who can understand Japanese better than me to confirm it. But I feel the sweet smell of an ending... --Maxim 21:00, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
"According to Unno Takao-shi, the female protagonist of HeartGold/SoulSilver was designed from scratch, without taking mind of the female protagonist from Crystal," pretty much.
The article also says that the male and female protagonists for HGSS were not designed by Sugimori as all previous ones have been, but by Unno under Sugimori's supervision. 梅子 22:53, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
So that's that, then? It's just a matter of finding where this interview came from, which shouldn't be too hard it can't be that o;ld. Reign 23:15, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
The second article says that the interview is from the November 2009 issue of Nintendo Dream, which was released in September around the remakes' release (I don't know why the magazine's naming system is two months ahead). -Unown Lord
...still doesn't explain Lyra having such short shorts, but it does explain Dawn. TTEchidna 02:44, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
I think that the far more pertinent question is why Sugimori agreed to Lyra being designed from scratch and his own character, Kris, not being carried over to the remakes. That Kris was not playable in Gold and Silver is merely an excuse, and the quote doesn't say that directly. -Unown Lord 05:38, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

So now that this has been settled, should we remove the merger templates from this and Lyra's pages? Reign 07:50, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Jeez, I don't look at my watchlist in a couple of days and -bam-, all this occurs. Looking at the two sources posted, it does seem as if they specifically say that Lyra was designed from scratch and is not the same as Kris. So merging the two articles would be pretty pointless.
Also, TTE, you've just proven to all of us that you pretty much don't give two shits about sticking to rules, guidelines and the like, and instead want everything to be your way. First your wild reasoning of "hey, PokéSpecial did it like this, so let's apply the manga to the entire canon!", when everyone knows Special is completely separate to everything else; and secondly, your selfish edit protecting of this page for a month just so no-one would remove the merge template. That's just damn childish. You really shouldn't abuse your position as a 'pedia admin like that. You've done it enough in other places over the past few months just to get your way... TheChrisD RantsEdits 12:45, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
I protected the page so that no one, mid-argument, could come in and say "NUH UH LYERS NOT CHRIS". I figured we'd not reach consensus this early. And considering the fact that Adventures is based on the games and the previous remakes' female protagonist's clothing was used by the third-version-named girl in Adventures... yeah, it was possible that we had been wrong to make Lyra and Kris separate pages. TTEchidna 00:27, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Don't believe that guy

Since I'm banned from Bulbagarden (by the way, dear admins, isn't it the time to lift that undeserved and insane ban from me? I've been away from Bulbagarden just long enough to atone for my "crime") and I can't answer there, the only thing that I can do is protect Bulbapedia from further harm that some random guy on Bulbagarden Forums may do. In this post on Bulbagarden Forums one guy (random and seemingly inexperienced) tries to convince people that what Unno says is supposed to prove the otherwise of our consensus. This is, that Kris and Lyra are same characters. However, his "translation" (allegedly done by his "Japanese-fluent girlfriend") is nothing more than a misinterpretation. It's a wishful interpretation of someone who can't admit that the two aren't same and one characters. First, he cites the "crucial" sentence totally out of context, obscuring its meaning. Unno doesn't says anything about "redesign". What Unno really says that Crystal female character and HGSS female character were designed independently. 意識 means "consciousness" or "senses" (not "concern"), I've checked that in multiple dictionaries. There's no way that the word could be misinterpreted. Also, the particle せず means "without". So, do the maths. Also, he completely ignored the word 新規, which means "new" or "original". Unno used this word in relation to Lyra, very obviously. He also completely ignored what Unno said about Ethan. It's very easy to obscure the intended meaning of out-of-context sentence in a foreign language. And this guy seems to be a master at this. But don't believe him. All he's doing is setting an additional, illegal hurdle on the last metre of our long way to consensus. There are always stubborn people who can't admit the truth and argue with the facts. Some people simply can't understand that the Earth isn't flat and even taking them into space won't convince them. So, for your own sanity and the sanity of Bulbapedia, ignore this guy. He's not a person to be believed. --Maxim 19:05, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh lord, is this really not done yet? That guy's just grasping at straws now. Reign 19:13, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
We have ended this. Just because the manga says they are the same, doesn't mean they are. They don't even look that similar. I don't see any resemblance at all, other then they have pigtails sticking out the sides, and they both have shorts instead of skirts. May has hair coming out the sides, and wears shorts. Does that mean she is Kris also? Just because Kris and Lyra have the same roles, doesn't mean they are the same person. The manga just didn't want to go through the trouble of making a new character for the HGSS volumes. Blake Talk·Edits 20:45, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
You don't need to keep restating that, Blake. The interview already confirmed they're seperate, the guy on the forums is making up translations that don't exist. Reign 22:18, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Her name.

No, this isn't about her and Lyra. Though I do think they're one in the same..Anyway, isn't "Kris" just a nickname or shortening of her name, Crystal? Is that note-worthy? Or is her name literally "Kris"? There really hasn't been anything on her name other then the english Crystal manuals and box art, which listed her as "Kris". Lovely Rose 20:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it is the default name. Plus, it is the first choice. Blake Talk·Edits 22:09, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe the "Kris/Crys is short for Crystal" only appears in the Pokémon Adventures manga (which does NOT consitute game canon, on the record...) --ZestyCactus 02:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
She's called it in "Golden Boys" too. Then again, that manga calls Silver "Black". So I'm guessing "Kris" is simply a reference to "Crystal" rather then a nickname. Lovely Rose 17:21, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

The anime is no longer credible concerning Kris/Lyra's identity

Ethan got a new counterpart in the 13th movie despite Jimmy already being Gold's counterpart. This proves that the anime isn't above recreating existing characters, unless you want to argue that Gold and Ethan aren't the same person either. Of course, this doesn't prove Kris being Lyra, but between the anime's loss of credibility and the article about Lyra's design having questionable credibility as well, the whole "Kris isn't Lyra" argument isn't solid either. - unsigned comment from Legendary Rotom (talkcontribs)

Kris originally in HGSS

My friend had tried to hack into the HeartGold ROM and he found some old files for the PokeGear, which proves that Kris was originally going to appears in HGSS. 29apf86.png

Thought it would be nice to include in trivia. Mattii (talk) 16:18, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

STADIUM 2 Portrait?

I saw that there was one above, If there is one someone should try to get it because it would be an awesome addition to BP. Anyone think they can do it? - unsigned comment from AnimeMagic (talkcontribs)

Missing Overworld Sprites

It seems there is only one Overworld sprite for Kris which is when she is facing forwards. Are the side and upward facing sprites generic or just missing? There also don't appear to be any sprites for Kris in HG or SS. - unsigned comment from Pokepro97 (talkcontribs)

Why would we need images of overworld kris facing left, right or up? it's unnecessary. Kris wasn't in HGSS, so naturally she wouldn't have overworld sprites from those games.--ForceFire 08:48, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Because she is in Generation II and people use the sprites to identify them. If I saw the sideways sprites, I might actually recogise if I remember her ingame or not and whether I am on the right page or not. - unsigned comment from Pokepro97 (talkcontribs)
How do you not know if the player character is in the game? glikglak 02:07, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
So... people won't recognize the sprite of Kris facing the screen? And there are plenty of images on this [age to make you realize that you're on the right page.--ForceFire 03:28, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
More than one picture helps. Overall, they are images from the game and there is no harm in having them on there, even if just a link to the archives to make the article complete. Pokepro97 (talk) 05:24, 17 April 2014 (UTC).

{{unknown name}}?

Why is it that Kris has this template at the top of her page when all other player characters are considered to have their default name as their "official name"? Schiffy (瀬藤健二) (Talk Contribs) 17:18, 4/6/2014 (UTC)

Most of the other characters are either in the as a rival character, which only uses one name (the player characters in RSE/DPPt/HGSS/BW/BW2/XY), from internal data (Leaf), or they show up in other games (Red and Blue). Kris' name isn't used in anything besides on box art. --It's Funktastic~!話してください 17:32, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
How is that not official? That's the closest any core series player character has to an official name, even if it is only on the English releases. Everybody's chomping at the bit to change things to "official" names that're only words used to refer to things without naming them (base stats/EVs), how is something that explicitly shows us the company named her something considered "not official"? glikglak 17:54, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
I actually get what Funk is saying. Kris, Leaf, and Silver only ever use a player-chosen name in all their appearances (even Hilbert and Hilda show up with those names in the Subway). Because of this, they have no "official" name as an NPC, the most we really have is the first option on the list if there even is one. Schiffy (瀬藤健二) (Talk Contribs) 17:58, 4/6/2014 (UTC)
I understand it too, but that doesn't change the fact that she was given a name by somebody in charge of the game in some form. glikglak 18:30, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Because "Kris" is only used by the back of the American box art as an example, since that's the first name on the list. In fact, her official name is likely Marina since all female player characters that have appeared in the anime share their names (and the whole idea that canons cannot cross is pure fanon in itself).
Also, "Leaf" is a stupid name because people refuse to accept the theme logic of the main Kanto games. If the guy is called Red and the rival Blue (Green, in Japan), then the most obvious choice for the girl is Green (Blue, in Japan).
The only characters we have a hard time with knowing their official names are Ethan (in Generation II's context) and "Silver". Ethan's Generation II name is most likely Jimmy in English and definitely Kenta in Japanese. About "Silver", well... I have no idea.
SatoMew 15:57, 19 April 2014 (UTC)