Talk:Umbreon (Pokémon)

Contents

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• (Return to top)
• Evolve Eevee?
• Psychic mention?
• Sun/Moon Shard
• wrong wikipedia entry
• Note Worthy?
• Shiny Umbreon Sprite
• Umber
• Anime
• Incorrect statement in Special Abilities.
• Trivia on Synchronize
• Inconclusive
• PokèPark 2
• Umbreon's Rings
• Umbreon's Origin
• Umbreon and the Black Dog myths?
• Poison
• Suspicious Activities regarding Umbreon’s origin

Contents

Evolve Eevee?

The article writes that you can get an Umbreon in FR/LG by evolving an Eevee. Where does one get the moon shard? How can one evolve an Eevee in FR/LG without it because I'm not sure there is one in the game. Harvestdancer 21:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Moon Shard? Only in XD: Gale of Darkness, I'm afraid.

I'm afraid you can't get an Umbreon in FireRed/LeafGreen without trading it over to Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and evolving it there.

Espeon works pretty much the same way, only involving the opposite timeframes and the Sun Shard instead of the Moon Shard. --Shiningpikablu252 21:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

What would happen if you chose the Moon Shard, then waited until you could trade, had a Pokémon hold the Moon Shard, and traded it to FRLGE? --Shiny Noctowl 21:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

The Moon Shard is a key item. It can't be held. --Shiningpikablu252 00:40, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't the page say "trade" instead of "evolve" then for FR/LG? Harvestdancer 17:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Not really. You can get Eevee, even if you can't evolve it within FRLG. TTEchidna 02:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I meant for Umbreon (and Espeon) shouldn't FR/LG say "trade"? Harvestdancer 03:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Like I said, you can get the Eevee just fine... You may have to trade to evolve it, but does it say that for a Pokémon like Rhyhorn or Graveler? TTEchidna 03:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Argh no! Graveler, for example, it says can be acquired by evolving a geodude or catching a graveler, but Golem can only be acquired through trade. It says so in the Golem article.

According to the above discusison, the only way to get an Umbreon is through trade. You can't evolve it. You need to evolve it at night, which doesn't happen in FR/LG, or with a moon shard, which you can't get at all in FR/LG and can't trade over as a held item because it's a key item. Therefore you cannot, when playing FR/LG, evolve an Eevee into an Umbreon.

Since you can't evolve an Eevee into an Umbreon in FR/LG, but can get an Umbreon through trade, shouldn't the article say you can get it through trade instead of evolution? Harvestdancer 15:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

All of the trade-evo ones I checked say "evolve (prevo)". The method, of course, is stated in the evo box. The point is that you can get Espeon/Umbreon by evolving the Eevee you get in FRLG, no matter that you have to trade it to another game to get the job done. It's like Machamp or Scizor. You can get the Machoke and Scyther in FRLG, but they don't evolve unless they get traded to another game, then traded back. Sure, it's a tiny bit more complicated with Eevee, but it's still the same concept. The trivia section, of course, should have that you can't evolve it because of no day/night function in FRLG, but that's one of the games you can actually get an Eevee in. TTEchidna 11:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

So do you just level up eevees with max happiness during the tides on emerald? If so, which would eveolve on high tide?--Ace 17:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Psychic mention?

Is it worth mentioning specifically how it can learn psychic in the trivia section? A pure dark pokemon being able to learn psychic would seem fairly note-worthy. Prophaniti 15:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Honchkrow Is also a Dark type that can learn Psychic. To be honest, I don't really think it belongs in the Article. Dean

Sounds notable enough for me.Honchrow is not pure DarkGood Day;DCM

...I didn't know being a flying time allows Honchkrow to learn Psychic attacks...PDL 14:43, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any notability in it. The Dark Fiddler - Smarter than the average bear! 14:45, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Darkrai, Sableye and it's rip-off Spiritomb, Honchkrow are the other dark types capable of learning Psychic. 5/23 dark types is a fair few. I'd not call it notable enough. Gywall^(Talk) 14:47, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Added note: Damn you fiddler, I had to find this again! Gywall^(Talk) 14:47, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Sun/Moon Shard

I just changed the Moon/Sun Shard links in the Espeon, Umbreon and List of Pokémon with branched evolutions pages so that they link to the appropriate sections of the List of key items in Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness page, rather than the Evolutionary stone page that doesn't mention them at all. Is there a way to make a search for Moon Shard/Sun Shard redirect to said page? It's rather useless having it redirect to the stone page (as it does now) when the page doesn't even say anything about them. It took me forever to find ANY mention of these shards in the wiki because of this. I was starting to think they were typos. --MASLEGOMAN 20:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I've changed them. In future please add comments to the bottom of a page, rather than into the middle of a three year old conversation. Werdnae (talk) 21:04, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

wrong wikipedia entry

On the origin section, the wikipedia enty for moon rabbit led to Moon Rabbit, not Moon rabbit like its supposed to. i just fixed it. can someone tell me if i was supposed to fix it? Jaller95 16:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

If it didn't link to the proper Wikipedia article, then yes, you were supposed to change it :) --PhantomJunkie 16:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Note Worthy?

Is it worth mentioning that Umbreon and Espeon are the only eeveelutions that share an ability?----XD00153 (tAlk) 00:38, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

dude..fix your sig..please.... and maybe Ataro 00:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Oops, sorry. I'm not that great at sigs.----XD00153 (tAlk) 00:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Another question on noteworthiness, is it worth mentioning that the minimum level for Umbreon is 2, and that the best way to get a lvl 2 umbreon is to hatch an eevee egg, then work it's happiness over a few days by massages, haircuts, and long bicycle walks while watching tv? Also, if it is, you should mention that you should save progress before any attempt to evolve a lvl 2 umbreon to be sure the happiness level is high enough. (Crystufer I don't know bbcode. Sorry.) - unsigned comment from Crystufer (talk • contribs)

First of all, signing your posts is done by typing four tildes (~). It's that easy, and there's even a shortcut for it on the toolbar above the edit box, and on the character palette below it.

Secondly, the minimum level trivia you suggested is NOT noteworthy. The same could be said for Espeon, Leafeon, Glaceon, and any other Pokémon which needs to level up to evolve. As for your info on how to evolve it at level 2, we aren't a strategy guide. Anyone who wants to know methods for increasing happiness can check the Happiness page, which is handily linked to from the evolution box. --Andy^P_K^M_N 18:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Shiny Umbreon Sprite

I've got a Shiny Umbreon in HeartGold and want to put the shiny version in the template, but how to do so? YoshisWorld 22:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)YoshisWorld

Umber

It states in the name origin section that it could come from umber, but i studied Umbreon's pictures, and it seemed closer to a very dark blue than a very dark brown. I'm removing this, because as likely as it seems, it's not really true. EvilKirikizan speaking! 02:46, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

The umber thing came back. I have already removed it for the same reason you did. Harrylane4 03:12, 25 November 2011 (UTC)Harrylane4

A ten second analysis by one user isn't enough to throw away the most likely reason. Even if it looks slightly bluer, Umber is the most likely source of the name. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 22:02, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Anime

Is it worth mentioning that despite Umbreon being the first Dark-type Pokémon in National Dex order, in the anime, no Umbreon is ever seen using a Dark-type move? Iml908 (talk) 19:52, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't see what it being the first one has anything to do with it, but I guess the second part is worth mentioning. --Pokemaster97 19:59, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect statement in Special Abilities.

"Umbreon can spray a poisonous sweat whenever it gets agitated. Its golden bands glow, allowing it to use moves such as Flash. As a Dark-type Pokémon, Umbreon can learn several moves with various disruptive effects, such as Taunt, Snatch or Thief."

Umbreon can not learn Thief in any generation. Vinven (talk) 06:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

You are welcome to make the edit yourself. Be bold! MF231 00:34, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Trivia on Synchronize

Is Umbreon the only Pokémon with the Ability of Synchronize that is not Psychic type (its type is Dark)? Is it notable or too small of a group to note/unnotable? --Cinday123 (Talk) 04:48, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

It's easily visible on the page for Synchronize, so it's not notable. Crystal Talian 04:53, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Crystal, I'll be careful when I'm adding trivia that would be otherwise not notable. --Cinday123 (Talk) 05:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Inconclusive

About the Anime's lack of Umbreon using Dark Type Moves, Gary's Umbreon used Hidden Power, meaning that information can't be confirmed.--Benayla (talk) 08:59, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Hidden Power inflicts damage using a type and power determined by the user's IVs. The power varies between 31 and 70 in Generation II, and varies between 30 and 70 in Generations III to V.

As far as anime goes, anime does not necessarily equal game in terms of how things are applied. Therefore, we don't see it as anything beyond a Normal-type move. As such, the statement of not using Dark-type moves applies. CycloneGU (talk) 14:11, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

PokèPark 2

Should the side-game locations box include the location in PokèPark 2? It has the PokèPark 1 location but not the second game. And in the side-game data section it shows both PokèPark game entries. - unsigned comment from AngelicEspeon (talk • contribs)

Umbreon's Rings

Would it be notable, given the pokedex references to Umbreon being poisonous, that Umbreon's rings may be based on a blue-ringed octopus? This could also relate to the color choice for its shiny form. Yoriven (talk) 13:42, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Sounds kinda like a strech imo.

Comparing a mammal to a mollusk just because of some ring-like patterns and an obscure dex entry, ya know? It ain't even poison-type in the end.

And if it was their inspiration for some reason, why not reference it in the main design instead of the shiny one?

ExLight (talk) 01:46, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Well... was going to avoid mentioning the demo leak, but it is Poison-type in the demo. Provided that that's real (and there's a lot of evidence in its favor) then that would lend credence to Umbreon's design originally drawing inspiration from a notoriously venomous animal. As for why it would reference it in the shiny form instead of the main one- you could ask Wooper the same question. Yoriven (talk) 02:48, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

It's not an octopus. Just having blue rings is such a weak connection. Shiny colorations don't get their origins explained, unless it's very clearly obvious (this isn't, since it's just blue rings), since the colors may be random.--ForceFire 04:26, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

I just figured, that it might connect to the shiny, but the point was more venomous creature with glowing rings = possible connection to poisonous eeveelution with glowing rings. But if you feel strongly against it, I will concede and hold my opinion. Yoriven (talk) 06:21, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

I noticed on Espeon's page that the trivia states that the red gem resembles a lunar eclipse, but neither of the pages state that Umbreon's rings resemble solar eclipses. I think it might reference that. AnonymousFog (talk) 00:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Umbreon's Origin

Well, someone removed it without explaining why, so to avoid edit wars I guess I'm gonna make a topic about it first. Umbreon's origin has always been a mystery. I personally think Umbreon may have influences from the Set animal. This is a totemic animal used to represent the god Set in Egypt, usually as a black and slender canid.

My argument to such is that it could've drawn inspiration from such since it matches the supposed Egyptian thematic in its design (the golden rings), it is an unknown creature that partially fits the description, also explains the Dark type (Evil type in Japan) since it is associated with chaotic and negative elements.

While it does not match perfectly a few aspects such as the slight curved snout, I believe this could be a valid origin to it since the moon rabbit origin doesn't fill many aspects of it other than the large ears and the moon theme. But since they're don't exclude each other I see no reason to rule this out.

Any thoughts on this? ExLight (talk) 02:02, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Since nobody discussed nor counterargumented it I re-added it to the origins. Also, removed some absurd things in it:

Umbreon as a "melanistic serval". Unlike mythological creatures who open space for imagination, comparing it to a real animal must be more precise. Servals are slim and have are quite long (length wise), have short ears and a cat-like tail. But then, Umbreon has a Hare-like ears and a fox-like tail and really short. The patterns are nothing similar as well.

"Moon Rabbit depicted to be white". Yes, but it is also commonly depicted as a black silhouette on the moon (which fits Umbreons design). It is also called "Jade Rabbit" and "Gold Rabbit" by poets. So it could basically have multiple different interpretations. This statement is pointless.

Bastet trivia was not relevant.

ExLight (talk) 03:46, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

No response does not mean you can just add it back, have patience. The set animal is too vague of a creature to make a connection, "black and canid" can describe any other canid Pokémon.--ForceFire 03:54, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Yea, but my point is that it's a "black and canid with correlation to the plausible Egyptian thematic and 'Evil'", which fits multiple aspects of it.

It was accepted for quite a few days until it was edited, c'mon.

ExLight (talk) 04:04, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Its behavior isn't chaotic or evil, judging by its Pokedex entries. To have an Egyptian motif is one thing, but the creature you are comparing it to is way too vague. All that is known about it that it is canine-like, which is way too little to try and say Umbreon is based off it.--ForceFire 04:22, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

The japanese, the original, name for the 'Dark type' is 'Evil type'. It doesn't need to be on the entries, it's right on its typing.

Although vague, the Set Animal also shares some really unusual details to Umbreon such as the always erected ears and tail. And the design differences could all be taken from the hare and fox previously on the origin. I know it may not be much, but Umbreon has always been an enigmatic creature and this somewhat can fill a few holes in its possible origin. All we had so far was the generic black cat and the moon rabbit (which doesn't explain the typing and most of its design), so, can't we just consider this as a possible one?

ExLight (talk) 04:38, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

EDIT: I guess that's a no. rip - unsigned comment from EXLight (talk • contribs)

Just because it's called "evil" type in Japan, doesn't mean it has to literally be evil. Umbreon's ears and tails aren't always erect, and saying the set animal always has erect ears and tail is speculation. It's always depicted as having erect ears and tail, you can't say that it definitely has an erect tail and ears (if it were real). The moon rabbit explains the moon aspect of Umbreon, it's not commenting about its design.--ForceFire 06:09, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but saying that an dark-type pokémon isn't necessarily based on something evil makes as much sense as saying that water-types aren't based on aquatic creatures. Are there exceptions? Yes, there are, but these are pretty rare cases that should be considered exceptions as a last resort. Dark-types are often overlooked due to this poor localization and feels really unfair to dismiss it like that.

Umbreon is represented as having straight ears and tail in pretty much every official media I could find. Could you point out a few examples where they're notably curved?

I know the moon rabbit isn't commenting about its design, what I'm saying is: the Set animal, despite not being perfect, is the best fit for it so far. I never denied that it has influences from the Moon Rabbit.

My point here isn't Umbreon being based out of a biologically existent-or-not being used to represent the Set animal, what I'm saying is that its designer could've taken some from the characteristics of the Set animal's representation/symbolism itself and incorporated it to Umbreon's concept (Egyptian aesthetic, black slender canid, 'evil'-type, straight tail and ears, doesn't fit any known creature), that being the case it should be treated as a possible mythical origin, not a biological one. This kind of origin opens a large variety of interpretations by their creators (e.g. Dunsparce as a Tsuchinoko, Slowbro as the Sazae-oni, or Drampa as a Zhulong), so it's understandable it may not be perfectly accurate. ExLight (talk) 14:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

I said you're taking the name of the type too literally. Just because it's called Evil type, doesn't mean all Pokémon of that type are going to be evil (Umbreon isn't evil by behavior or causes chaos). Just because it's called Water type, doesn't mean all Pokémon of that type are going to be sentient water. That's what I meant by taking the name too literally.

You're making a biological comparison by saying that the "slender, black body" and "erect ear and tails" of Umbreon may be inspired from the set animal. Is the set animal actually black or usually depicted as black? All ancient drawings/paintings I've googled have it not colored, with colored ones I found usually being fan-art. As for having mythical origins, it's fine to say that it may have an Egyptian motif, which is already mentioned in the origin section.--ForceFire 05:10, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, I see, so that's the matter. You're right, it is not enough to prove a link between both, sorry about the fuss. Since the wiki accompanied strong references after the paragraph stating it was represented as black I kinda trusted it blindly, I should've searched more into it before considering it. Thanks for your time and patience. ExLight (talk) 20:58, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Umbreon and the Black Dog myths?

We already have Houndour line as the Pokémon take on hellhounds, but Umbreon itself can be seen as being inspired by other interpretations of the black dogs in the British folklore, such as Black Shuck. Plus since more people interpret Umbreon as a dog than a cat, would that be possible for Umbreon to be based off the Black Shuck or other ghostly black dogs? Special Stage Route (pit stop) 10:21, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Houndoom's design references hellhounds and the devil, it's black, devilish, looks like dobermann, has horns, bones, arrow tail and demon in French and and German names. Umbreon is a vague cat and dog mix, isn't particularly evil, related to moonlight and has lucky in it's name. There's nothing to interpret it as clearly dog-like, plus British folklore isn't as known as Greek mythology.--Rocket Grunt 10:47, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

There are some black dogs that are actually benevolent or neutral instead of actively malevolent like others. Gurt Dog of Somerset and Hanging Hills' Black Dog are some of the benevolent black dogs, and Guardian Black Dogs in some stories are rendered as neutral ghost dogs. I can believe Umbreon would be based off those non-malevolent black dogs. Special Stage Route (pit stop) 16:58, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, it isn't.--Rocket Grunt 17:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Poison

Would it be worth a trivia entry that Umbreon doesn't learn any Poison-type moves (other than formerly Toxic), despite having many Pokédex entries referencing poison? Eragon4 (talk) 02:18, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Suspicious Activities regarding Umbreon’s origin

Hello and good day,

I noticed the talk page of the Umbreon article references that Umbreon is part canid. Particularly this was voiced by the editors Exlight and SpecialStageRoute. Upon inspection of the article, all reference to its canid origins has been removed since 2018. What remains of the article is a bias towards felines regarding the origin section. If I were to go to the Italian and German wikis, I would find that they operate on a neutral point of view. Whereas, I would find a more balanced opinion based on consensus.

The original article states: Umbreon's origins are uncertain, though it could be based on a black cat or possibly a black fox, a color variation of the red fox. Its long ears also are similar to those of a hare; numerous East Asian legends concern a Moon rabbit. The rings on Umbreon's body look like Egyptian lunar markings and jewelry that have been associated with animal sculptures, such as cat statues of Bastet and statues of the jackal god, Anubis, from Ancient Egypt. They may also be meant to resemble solar eclipses.

Source:

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Umbreon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&oldid=2799309

The current article states: In the Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld '97 demo, Umbreon was a purple colour, and Poison-type. Remnants of this design stage can be seen in its Gold Pokédex entry, where it's said to sweat poison from its pores.

Umbreon could be based on a black cat, which was considered to be an omen of bad luck (in most Western countries, contrary to Japan's viewpoint in which it is considered lucky) and can be interpreted as the reasoning behind the Dark typing. Its long ears are similar to those of a hare and may originate from the East Asian legends concerning a Moon rabbit. Given some versions of the Moon rabbit legend claim it brews elixirs, this could be one such reason for Umbreon's original Poison typing.

The rings on Umbreon's body resemble Egyptian lunar markings and jewelry that have been associated with animal sculptures, such as cat statues of the Egyptian goddess Bastet. While Bastet was originally a lioness warrior and the goddess of the sun, the Greeks occupying ancient Egypt toward the end of its civilization changed her into a cat and the goddess of the moon, possibly inspiring the Pokémon's lunar theme. Furthering the lunar theme, Metamorphoses is a narrative poem that involves the Roman Goddess of the moon, Diana, changing into the form of a cat as she flees to Egypt.

Additionally, Umbreon may be inspired by Tezcatlipoca, a central deity in Aztec religion who took the form of a black jaguar that had yellow horizontal bands, and was associated with the night sky.

Source: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Umbreon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

As one can see all reference to Umbreon being part canid was removed.

The German wiki states:

Nachtaras könnte es auf einer schwarzen Katze⁠ oder möglicherweise einem schwarzen Fuchs, einer Farbvariation des Rotfuchses⁠ , basieren. Seine langen Ohren ähneln denen eines Hasen; zahlreiche ostasiatische Legenden handeln vom „Mond-Kaninchen“⁠ . Die Ringe auf Nachtaras Körper sehen wie ägyptische Mondmarkierungen und Schmuck aus, welcher mit Tierskulpturen assoziiert wurde, wie zum Beispiel Katzenstatuen von Bastet⁠ , der in der ägyptischen Mythologie als Katzengöttin dargestellten Tochter des Sonnengottes Re⁠ . Zudem werden sie auch mit Statuen des Schakal-Gottes Anubis⁠ aus dem Alten Ägypten in Verbindung gebracht. Außerdem könnten die Ringe eine Sonnenfinsternis darstellen.

Die mögliche Herkunft seines japanischen Namens könnte darauf anspielen, dass dort schwarze Katzen nicht wie in den meisten Teilen Europas als Pech-, sondern als Glückssymbole angesehen werden.

Roughly translated this means: Origin (Nachtara – PokéWiki)

Umbreon could be based on a black cat or black fox. Its long ears resemble those of a hare; this references the numerous legends of the moon rabbit. The rings of Umbreon may reference the lunar marking of the Egyptian goddess Bastet or jackal god Anubis. In additions the rings could reference a solar eclipse.

Source:

:Nachhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Umbreon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&oldid=2799309tara – PokéWiki

If I were to go to the Italian pokéwiki, their Umbreon article states: Origine (Umbreon - Pokémon Central Wiki)

Le sue origini sono incerte, ma pare essere basato su un gatto nero o una volpe nera (variazione della comune volpe rossa), anche se le sue orecchie sono simili a quelle di una lepre, quindi è possibile che sia ispirato anche alle leggende del coniglio lunare asiatico. Le strisce sul corpo di Umbreon sono riconducibili a dei simboli lunari egizi o dei gioielli che gli egiziani usavano sulle statue di divinità come Bastet o Anubi, oppure potrebbero essere ispirati all'eclissi solare in riferimento al suo tipo Buio.

Roughly translated this would mean:

Its origins are uncertain, but it seems to be based on a black cat or a black fox (variation of the common red fox), although its ears are similar to those of a hare, so it is possible that it is also inspired by the legends of the Asian moon rabbit. The stripes on Umbreon's body can be traced back to Egyptian lunar symbols or jewelry that the Egyptians used on statues of gods such as Bastet or Anubis, or they could be inspired by the solar eclipse in reference to its Dark type.

Source: https://wiki.pokemoncentral.it/Umbreon

As one can see, The German and Italian Pokéwiki both provide a balanced view of Umbreon’s origin.

It is known by the Pokémon that Eevee and all its evolutionary variants are chimeric mammalians where their design basis is on cats and dogs without resembling any distinct animal. In fact, the creator of Eevee states that he designed it from personal memories from seeing a cat or dog-like creature.

Source: Pokémon Designers Reflect on History of Eevee's Design - Interest - Anime News Network https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-09-10/pokemon-designers-reflect-on-history-of-eevee-design/.136529

I would argue that Umbreon’s origins have some vulpine traits not just feline. Regarding Umbreon's physical traits Foxes are primarily nocturnal much like cats, even having the same slit pupils due to convergent evolution.

My observation regarding Umbreon’s morphology would be to look at eye spacing and orientation, gait, hind paws lacking bump, spine curvature, broad shorter non prehensile tail and vertically orientated upper and lower canines to name the most obvious traits that scream dog rather than cat.

Also, the fox is known as the "Cat Like Canine" in academia because cats and foxes share the same ecological niche. Foxes are considered highly adaptable and are the most common carnivore in the world with the red fox having over 40 subspecies alone. The fox’s adaptability explains the eeveelutions' muliple variants.

Source 1: http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/9354.html

Source 2: http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/red_fox.html

Foxes are prevalent in Japanese folklore:

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/oinari.shtml

I know that Bulbapedia has a citation requirement for the Pokémon origins/pop culture and speculation. The Umbreon article does not cite any official sources regarding the feline origin theory posited by Bulbapedia talk page.

In fact, I have an interview paper with Atsuko Nishida the designer and creator of Umbreon where she states that there is no main basis behind Umbreon’s design.

Internet Archive Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20180911220436/https://twitter.com/atsuko_nishida/status/783643367523557376

Upon closer inspection I see problematic edits made by the user known as stardustskittles where most of his or her edits are in the Eeveelution articles. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.phptitle=Umbreon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=prev&oldid=2806376

Stardustskittles replaced the origin section calling Umbreon a “Melanistic Serval” and deleted every reference of umbreons resemblance to canids.

There are suspicious accounts with very little edit history targeting the Umbreon Article pages. On the French wiki an account called Lapichou removed all instances of umbreon being part fox.

https://www.pokepedia.fr/index.php?title=Noctali&diff=prev&oldid=1278581

What makes the account suspicious is that the article now references Umbreon as a “Melanistic Serval” which would indicate an agenda being pushed.

On the Italian Pokèmon wiki, An account user by the name of Gigilula was caught by moderators astroturfing the Umbreon page with the same agenda being pushed.

versioni di "Umbreon" - Pokémon Central Wiki

https://wiki.pokemoncentral.it/index.php?title=Umbreon&diff=670202&oldid=663403ifferenze

Note the differences in the article above. This account was made during the same date as the Lapichou account pushing the feline agenda in the expense of all the canid reference. To further reinforce the fact that there are several accounts acting in tandem, another account was picked up by the German wiki. As one can see the user by the name of Beineponpon in poorly translated German wrote the exact same thing as Gigilula while deleting all reference to canids regard the umbreon article. https://www.pokewiki.de/index.php?title=Nachtara&diff=prev&oldid=1891946&diffmode=source

Lastly the pokewiki from wikia was Astroturfed without any prior discussion or general consensus by a user by the name of PeachyStarDreams. Note the problematic edits she made.

https://pokemon.fandom.com/wiki/Umbreon?diff=prev&oldid=1117343

All of the edits made by PeachyStarDreams involve removing all reference to canids on the Eeveelutions pages

As one can see, most of his or her edits removes all canid references to the origin page of the umbreon article. This was not based on community consensus. In fact, the user Exlight has brought it up 6 years ago. I understand that Bulbapedia has a stringent requirement of citing sources for design origins of Pokémon. But there is no proof of umbreon being a cat, the pokemon community consensus is that eevee shares traits of cats, dogs, and foxes, shouldn’t there be neutrality here? Upon closer inspection, in the German, Italian and French wiki, there are rouge accounts that exclusively target the Umbreon article in a coordinated fashion. The accounts seem to be acting in concert with stardustskittles.

The user Exlight never had a chance to debate stardustskittles, his edits were arbitrarily removed without any reason. Why is this acceptable? The resultant edits made by stardustskittles removed all instances of Umbreon being part-canid without any explanation why. The articles should be based on consensus and there clearly is none in the talk page. Plastro (talk)

Quite awhile late late but wanted to take a bit of time to look more into stardustskittles edits before making a response. Looking through their edits, they practically never debated with people and even on their talk page, they took awhile to respond to one user before ignoring a warning from a staff member at the time about how their signature looked. They seemed to have a penchant for modifying Eevee related pages to remove cat related information (and often times being incorrect about things such as claiming Espeon couldn't possibly have been based on a sphynx cat as sphynx cats "dont have hair at all.") While I can't speak about the edits to Umbreon on the international wikis, the usage of astroturfing is misused here. Whether the edits were all made by the same person, or a small group of friends or something would need to be discussed with the admins of those wikis.

Astroturfing - the deceptive practice of presenting an orchestrated marketing or public relations campaign in the guise of unsolicited comments from members of the public.

The correct term here would either be vandalizing or misleading viewers and editors by obscuring certain information about possible origins. The reason ExLight never got to debate stardustskittles at the time is because as I noted, they rarely seemed to respond to talk page comments at the time even when posting on talk pages and would often remove information without asking about it on the talk page at the time. However, their response as seen here seems to indicate that removing references to felines and adding in their own interpretation of what they feel they are based on is based on their own personal theories. While they weren't being dismissed, they were being told to stop removing content without good reason here.

Going to just go out and say this, if you feel the canid references belong on the pages, I have zero reason to go against it as long as the reasoning is plausible obviously. If people disagree, they should bring it up on the talk pages and debate it from there. And if there is no discussion on the talk pages, always welcome to bring it up on our official discord as well (linked to the left if logged in or at the top if logged out) and bring it up in the appropriate Bulbapedia channel there. I'm also an admin there so if you come across issues, you're welcome to tag me so I can look into it more with you. Any further questions regarding edits to Umbreon or the Eeveelution pages as a whole, always welcome to ask about it here, might not get a response right away but we will respond when we have time. Frozen Fennec 18:43, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

First and foremost I apologize for the late reply. I did not expect a response so thank you for replying to me. Since I have your permission to edit the Umbreon article, I have a few questions to ask. I intend to restore the article back to its original form as seen here:

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Umbreon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&oldid=2801933

As you can see the old origin page states:

Umbreon's origins are uncertain, though it could be based on a black cat or possibly a black fox, a color variation of the red fox. Its long ears also are similar to those of a hare; numerous East Asian legends concern a Moon rabbit. The rings on Umbreon's body look like Egyptian lunar markings and jewelry that have been associated with animal sculptures, such as cat statues of Bastet and statues of the jackal god, Anubis, from Ancient Egypt. This Egyptian aesthetic may also point to the Set animal, an unknown creature (often represented as black canid) associated with chaotic elements. The rings may also be meant to resemble solar eclipses.

My question to you Frozen Fennec is: does this suffice? This was the older but less biased reference for Umbreon's origin. It includes the canid references before Stardustskittles vandalized the page. I await your decision. I apologize for the late reply and inconviencing you. Are there any objections before I proceed?

Plastro (talk) 19:00, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Sorry once more for a late response but I think that paragraph would suffice, do not recommend restoring the page to that point obviously since it would undo all other information on the page. Updating the origins to be how it was prior to the vandal edits to that section is entirely fine with me. Frozen Fennec 16:08, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Uuuh, since this is still a bit fresh. I saw my name thrown around a bit and got a bit scared, lol. It's been quite a while those edits happened; about 6 or 7 years ago, right? I vaguely remember finding the Umbreon page to have a lot of weird stretches at the time, although if I'm honest I wasn't too proud of my edit either because I was never too fond of the whole Egyptian thing.

Since I had recently given the Sylveon page a bit of an update at the beginning of February I was thinking of reorganizing/updating the other eeveelution pages and hopefully make them all a bit coherent. I did find it weird that Umbreon's didn't mention any fox or dogs as potential origins because not being based on a single real animal seems to be the a main concept of the eeveelutions so I was planning on editing it next. I really had no idea it was from a edit that old.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call their actions as "suspicious" or "vandalism", it's more like they're really into this belief/theory and end up disregarding others. It was a bit awkward to have my edit undone like that, but I do think I was a bit at fault for not noticing and trying to approach them to talk about it. As for the edits on wikis in other languages I think they're just users that tried to keep them up to date with Bulbapedia since its virtually the main one.

Also, a bit on Umbreon's Origin; the translated Nishida tweet Plastro posted is actually really important, because if there weren't specific inspirations for Umbreon that might undermine every speculation regarding specific mythological or folklorical beings that revolve around specific animals. Although it seems weird to give Espeon a well defined cat/ nekomata motif but none to Umbreon. Is there a Wayback Machine link to that tweet? It might be more appropriate to put in the references.

ExLight (talk) 22:48, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

Oh, Plastro did provide an Internet Archive link for the Nishida tweets. Since it seems important, I will mention it in an edit.

ExLight (talk) 13:27, 2 March 2025 (UTC)