Bulbapedia talk:Privacy policy/Archive 1

< Bulbapedia talk:Privacy policy
Latest comment: 13 September 2009 by GreenReaper in topic Wikia
This is a talk page archive.

It contains old discussions of topics relating to the article. Please do not add or remove any content from it.

Keeping Bulbagarden online costs a significant amount, and it is only by generous donations that we are able to foot the bill. We hope to decrease our reliance on charity by publishing advertisements on Bulbapedia, which is the single largest site on the server in traffic terms. Specifically, we are proposing the publication of Google AdSense advertisements in the site-wide notice area.

We have refrained from doing so in the past because people are not drawn to Bulbapedia for its community, as is the case with the Bulbagarden forums, but for its content. Bulbapedia is a Web 2.0 site, therefore its content is created by its users - and to that degree it is also owned by its users, as opposed to other reference sites like Veekun or Smogon, where content is created by the staff. To monetize user-created content can be considered unethical - as one cynic put it, "Web 2.0: you make all the content, we make all the money."

Therefore, we have decided to consult you, the creators of content, on this matter. Naturally, votes will be weighted to reflect the number of edits the voter has made. Please cast your vote by adding your signature (~~~~) to the end of the signature lists below. All registered users may vote once to:

  • Support the publication of Google AdSense advertisements on Bulbapedia
  • Reject the publication of Google AdSense advertisements on Bulbapedia
  • Abstain

The poll was closed at 13:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC).

Results

Support Reject Abstain No vote Voters
Weighted users 10 users 33 0 users 0 3 users 10 7 users 27 13 users 43
Other users 94 users 19.05 41 users 8.31 13 users 2.64 — 148 users 30
Total 104 users 52.05 41 users 8.31 16 users 12.64 7 users 27 161 users 73

161 users voted in this poll, of which:

  • 104 users (64.60%) voted in favour,
  • 41 users (25.47%) voted against, and
  • 16 users (9.94%) abstained.

The final weighted results are:

  • 52.05 in favour,
  • 8.31 against,
  • 12.64 abstentions, and
  • 27 unused votes.

The proposal is therefore passed.

Weightings

Latest comment: 10 September 2007133 comments133 people in discussion
Support Reject Abstain No vote
BulbaBot 12
Pie 9
TTEchidna 7
Fabu-Vinny 5
Zhen Lin 5
PAK Man 4
Zeta 4
Taylor 3
Pokencyclopedia 3
Zurqoxn 3
Woopert 3
Argy 2
Meowth346 2
User142 2
ElectAbuzzzz 1
Jshadias 1
Urutapu 1
Siegfried 1
Ketsuban 1
Evkl 1
Total 33 0 10 27

All other votes will be weighted so that the total weight is 30, provided at least 30 users not in the above list cast their votes, i.e. if 60 users other than the ones above vote, then the weight on each of their votes will be 0.5; otherwise the votes will have weight 1.

Support

Reject

Abstain

Bulbabot?!

Latest comment: 10 July 20074 comments3 people in discussion

... I can't be the only one who thinks it's silly that our resident bot is not only allowed to vote in this, but has the most powerful vote of all. Zhen, did you give it AI when we weren't looking? D: --Pie ~♪♫ 22:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Bulbabot will one day assimilate us all... TTEbot 01:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
We can decide how to delegate its vote at a later point - whether to give it to Archaic (who is counted as a regular user in this poll), or something else. Of course, seeing as how most of the BulbaBot edits are due to my programs, I suppose I could just have its voting rights reassigned to me, for a total of 17... Anyway, essentially, if need be, we can use it as a tiebreaker. - 振霖T 05:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Tiebreaker sounds good, as does giving it to Archaic. It'd really only matter if twelve votes would make or break one side... which doesn't seem to really be the case so far. TTEbot 05:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Reasoning

Latest comment: 11 July 20076 comments4 people in discussion

I'm not a fan of advertisements in general, and there's quite a lot of good points against monetizing a community effort. But at the same time, if nobody can afford to keep these servers up and running, there is no community. I'm all for keeping this site around; a few advertisements on the sidebar aren't going to conflict with my editing (GuildWiki, another game-based wiki, uses a few non-obtrusive ads on the side to keep the servers up and running with no problems for anyone). So long as the money earned is going towards keeping this site running, and not going into someone's pocket, I say it's a noble cause. -- Jioruji Derako.> 12:46, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

P.S.: The example I gave currently has some ads up that GuildWiki actually don't want there, but that's already being fixed, hehe...

I understand what you're saying about the money issue and the servers, but have you noticed advertisements lately? Everywhere you go, they're dirty and obstructive, particularly in the case of celebrity videos and dating sites. I for one don't want that kind of influence here, because this and other related Wikis like the original Wikipedia are basically the last place this kind of garbage hasn't filtered through, and I (hopefully with the support of others too) would like to keep it that way. I admit, ads for sites like Google aren't bad, but I'm not sure exactly how much control one can have over what ads are shown here and which aren't (depending on the deal or whatever, I suppose). I suggest we get in touch with Nintendo and work out a deal - maybe we could advertise some of their merchandise for some retribution, enough maybe to pay for the servers and any other expenses. I'm sure we're already in some sort of collaboration with them, seeing as we would've gotten sued for copyright infringement long ago if we weren't... Kochdude388 16:34, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Google AdSense's ads are based primarily on the content on the page. Most of the stuff that would be appearing would be stuff like "Pokémon merchandise" and the like. Unless some vandal goes and blanks the page and replaces it with something inappropriate, the chances of something risqué coming up are slim to none.
The few ads that Nintendo has on its page are banner ads--which as we all know are considerably more flashy and annoying than AdSense. Plus, the closest thing on Nintendo's page to getting any type of financial help is a sponsorship, and all of Nintendo's sponsorships are approved by a third party, not Nintendo itself. If Nintendo was a sponsor, they could also apply financial pressure to remove information on the site that they didn't like (not-officially-revealed Pokés like Darkrai, anyone?). In short, very, very risky. I agree with Jioruji Derako, as long as it's all going towards site maintenance, I have no qualms about a few ads. -PsychoYoshi 18:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The one problem we've been having on GuildWiki is a particularly offensive banner ad, which is bought up via Google (sometimes you'll get some crappy ads just because they have a single keyword in common). Normally though, the admins have the ability to block some ads from showing up, and generally advertisements aren't a big problem. Perhaps just simple Google ads, instead of google-powered banner ads, might work well. -- Jioruji Derako.> 03:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Wha? There's only one Google AdSense service as far as I know. I don't have access to the AdSense account for Bulbagarden (that belongs to Archaic), so I can't tell you what can or cannot be done in terms of filtering and control. It's a valid argument though. I was originally against ads on Bulbapedia, but lately we've been feeling the pinch as the expenditure spirals upwards... - 振霖T 07:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, it's most likely just the one AdSense that's running on GuildWiki then. I think AdSense can be used in different forms, though... there's a few AdSense-powered banner ads I've seen before, as well as the good old links-to-mostly-random-stuff ads. From what one of the Admins did mention, there are some sites they can block from showing up, I believe, at least banner-wise... aside from that, there are some sites that blocking just doesn't seem to work on. I've got very limited experience with it myself.
Archaic would probably know what you can and can't do with Google, I suppose... only experience I've got with the whole thing is what I've seen and heard from others. -- Jioruji Derako.> 08:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikia

Latest comment: 13 September 200913 comments7 people in discussion

Hello. I'd like to propose an alternative. Rather than have an advert right along the top of the page like that, you could join Wikia and see only one small ad in the top corner which isn't even visible when you scroll down the page. See our new slate or smoke skins for an example. Since Wikia provides free hosting, you would be guaranteed of a stable place for your wiki even if the ads do not generate enough to cover the hosting costs, which might be the case if you use your own ads.

You would be joining a network of more than 3000 different wikis and be hosted on a spam-free site. We have wikis in 70 different languages, so if anyone wanted to create Bulbapedia in a new language, we would freely host that as well.

There's also the benefit of being able to choose between the normal monobook skin used here and new skins which provide new features, including automated listings of the top articles and recently edited articles, and article rating. We also have extensions that allow you to import images from Flickr and embed videos from YouTube.

Let me know if you'd like to join Wikia. Of course, the wiki would remain community owned and run. Angela. 01:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

It bothers me a little that you're advertising Wikia as a "spam-free site" when this is essentially spam you're posting here. Anyway, I'm bringing your offer to the attention of other Bulbapedia staff, but offhand, I wouldn't get any hopes up. I'm pretty sure most of us know about Wikia, and if our editorial board - particularly Zhen - was interested in having a wiki on Wikia, it would have already been started there. --Pie ~♪♫ 05:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry if you saw my message as "spam". I was simply offering an alternative to this community since you're having financial problems that we can help with. Angela 19:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

On a related subject, having advertisements on the sidebar would be much better looking then having it right across the top of the page... I hate to keep using the same example, but what we've got on GuildWiki works quite well. Fits the page perfectly, doesn't disrupt the page with a glaring ad right across the top, and so on. -- Jioruji Derako.> 03:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Can I just say that over at the Marvel Database Project, we became a part of Wikia and have only benefited from it. It allowed the Wiki to be seen by far more people than it might otherwise have, it gave us many new creative options, the ads are very unobtrusive and from what I understand, our administration staff hasn't lost a single bit of their power or control. But I'm just throwing that out there as someone who's seen a Wiki before and after Wikia. Or, maybe, I'm just a tool of the Wikia-"man". --- GrnMarvl13 21:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

First off, there's no great incentive for us to move to Wikia. Bulbapedia has high traffic, but if we use the ads to add to our funds for the server, it would actually help support not only us, but Bulbanews, the Archives, the forums, etc. We don't need more inflow from Wikia, because we're already getting inflow from a lot of places - the high flow from Wikipedia promises to become a flood following the "condensing" of the Pokémon articles there. Even Penny Arcade has linked to the 'pedia. On one hand, that means more strain - but also more revenue, if we start putting ads at the top, which most users are apparently okay with. (Or in other spots, as some have been suggesting. I wouldn't mind one in the sidebar.) Which makes sense to me, since we're not profitting from it. All funds go towards Bulbagarden's server upkeep.
But there's a lot of questions raised that our little solicitor conveniently didn't raise. If Bulbapedia moves, what about the Archives? Bulbanews? Other wikis, which we may be adding in the future? Our wikis interact rather intimately, while remaining separate entities. On top of that, and perhaps the most bothersome part about getting involved with Wikia, would be the fate of Encyclopaediae Pokémonis. There's considerable thought and care put into that little ring of wikis. As the solicitor said, "We have wikis in 70 different languages, so if anyone wanted to create Bulbapedia in a new language, we would freely host that as well." There's another side to that, isn't there? We would likely have to talk our three affiliates into moving to Wikia - which doesn't exactly seem like a great idea to me - and also not have much say in who joins in.
On top of that, there's already a Pokémon wiki on Wikia, and it's terrible. The only good thing which could potentially come of the two being anywhere near each other would be that the other one might wither and die; and, well, while that might help us, it isn't really necessary. There's a lot of potential bad blood there that could hurt us in numerous ways, and I don't see why we should bother with it.
The list goes on.
Now, really, the person who has the most say in this is Zhen Lin. Who is away right now, which is one more reason why it's both amusing and annoying that this solicitation came right now. But really, Zhen certainly knows about Wikia, and he went with setting up the Bulbapedia on Bulbagarden instead. It's done great things for Bulbagarden, and Bulbagarden has been treating the Bulbapedia well. As I believe I said earlier, if he wanted this to be connected with Wikia, it probably already would be.
On that note, though, this discussion really should be saved until Zhen has returned. Though I have brought it up in the Bulbapedia's staff forum, and we've already got some of the other people with the most power over Bulbapedia are anything but interested in the offer. --Pie ~♪♫ 23:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
You have a lot of good points, and I know that NOTHING I say really matters (I'm, at best, clarifying things...probably not even that). And, actually, I was going to suggest Wikia myself (to Zhen when he got back), just as a way to maybe unload some of the burden from the server (merely throwing an idea out there. Do or do not, doesn't matter, just an idea). Personally, I don't know all of the details that came up when the MDP went to Wikia (though we merged with the existing Marvel Wiki, not losing anything in the move), but in the (apparently) highly unlikely event that the staff of Bulbapedia is interested (when Zhen gets back), I could always point him (or whoever) to the owner of the MDP as someone who's been in the same position. Obviously, I have nothing to gain from this, I would just want to make sure all of the facts are known and, ultimately, I just want to do what I can to help the Bulbaverse. Good idea or bad, I only intend to offer help. -- GrnMarvl13 01:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello Bulbapedia administrators!
For those who don't know me, I am the Editor-in-Chief of the Marvel Database.
I wanted to offer myself as a point of contact if anyone has any questions about how our move to Wikia went.
Prior to our conversion, we had no ties nor affiliations with Wikia. They approached us to help us alleviate server loads and costs.
We also did not have ads at the time, and were somewhat resistant to the idea.
Further, we also have our own news site and forums too. We didn't have to give those up at all.
In fact, those I still host myself.
I cannot speak for Wikia, but in my opinion they are fairly flexible and you certainly have lots of room to negotiate mutually agreeable terms.
As for the benefits, our projects are MORE intimately integrated than they were before!
We were growing at a decent rate as well, but since moving to Wikia, we have noticed a boost for sure. I would certainly never turn down free traffic!
Pie has some good points indeed. There are a lot of factors to consider, but if you have any questions, please feel free to email me at marveldatabase.com (jamie@).
Love the site, keep it up!
Long time visitor, first time editor,
--Jamie 02:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Wow. Seems like a lot of Wikia admins are interested in the Pokémons. :-)
I'm the founder of WikiFur (among other sites) at Wikia and I've had a good experience with them, but at the same time, if you've got a good setup here - and it looks like you do - there's no real reason to change it. As I see it, Wikia's service is of most use for communities that don't have that kind of technical infrastructure to hand. Good luck with your advertising; hopefully given the number of people selling related merchandise you'll actually get reasonable returns. GreenReaper 19:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
As of 2009, the situation has changed. Self-hosting is easier, and Wikia's service has changed to a point where I can only recommend it in rare circumstances. Not that you were thinking of moving, just adjusting my earlier statement. GreenReaper 18:03, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Pie wrote "if we use the ads to add to our funds for the server, it would actually help support not only us, but Bulbanews, the Archives, the forums, etc." I don't think that's true. The money you would make from advertising on this wiki might not even cover the hosting costs of the wiki, and would be unlikely to leave Zhen with enough to put towards the other parts of the site. However, if you join Wikia, the revenue from the advertising could go towards Bulbanews and the other parts of the site and the wiki would be hosted completely for free. Angela 19:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

You realize the entirety of Bulbagarden's on its own servers, right? Meaning yes, it would be supporting the entire site, because it would be supporting the server that the entire site is on. Because that's what our problem is right now. Our servers need an upgrade because the website gets so much traffic and our current ones are strained. We've raised plenty of money for such via donation, and are only advertising so we don't have to rely on donations and our own money and the like in the future; so the website will help cover itself. We do appreciate the offer, but really, by the time Zhen gets back I'm pretty sure the situation will be under control. If you want us to move to your page so badly, wait until his return to continue this solicitation. --Pie ~♪♫ 02:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Just to continue the above point made by Pie, now that we've had the ads running for a while....at this point in time, it appears that the google ads will pay for more than double our existing hosting costs for the entire Bulbagarden network, if we maintain our current level of revenue. Additional funds raised are going to be invested in a high interest cash management account to provide for future hosting fees, and may also be used to buy product for competition prizes. --Archaic 12:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

We should do this more often

Latest comment: 6 August 20072 comments2 people in discussion

I'm amused at how many users here are registering just to vote. This is apparently a good way to lure lurkers into the open. Better than this whole BulbaMySpace trend I've noticed with people registering just to make a userpage. --Pie ~♪♫ 19:34, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, personally I find it suspicious when people register only to vote. Sockpuppetry... But then, maybe I just have a suspicious nature (which is odd, coz I'm actually really trusting). Maybe my opinion doesn't matter coz I've not voted at all. =3 --DarkfireTaimatsu 21:09, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I have been lurking usually and i hate ads so i registered to vote, but then again i could contribute if i found anything good, and i will try my hardest

Yes

Even though ive never been a fan of adds myself...we are going to have to raise money for them to pay to keep this running...either some people can donate straight from their own pockets to pay for this all, or we can all evenly distribute looking at adds...i think its a good idea to put adds put i think it should be a different company than google...1 i dont like google (but thats a personal matter, i dont think its results are halfway what yahoos are) and really large companies like that would probably not give a very good price for what you have to put on your page as adds..i support adds, but i think we should look for alternatives to google. - unsigned comment from Bill33421 (talk • contribs)

No

Latest comment: 27 October 20075 comments2 people in discussion

I hate ads. If anyone else reading this hates ads, put this template on your userpage to remove the ads from that page. --Shiny NoctowlTalk | Contribs 01:51, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

While the majority of the community agreed that ads were tolerable, there are always going to be people who don't agree with it. Generally, posting a template on a page to block ads isn't the best way to go about it; if you really don't like the ads, you can edit your own personal user CSS to hide ads. That way, you don't affect other users just because you don't like seeing advertisements... -- Jioruji Derako.> 03:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
How can I edit my personal CSS? --Shiny NoctowlTalk | Contribs 12:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Never mind. I figured out how. Look:
.googleContent {display: none}
.firstHeading {position: absolute; top: 63px; width: 900px}
#bodyContent {position: absolute; top: 101px; width: 900px}
.pBody {background: transparent; border: none}
#p-personal {position: fixed; top: 0px; z-index: 100}
#p-navigation {position: fixed; top: 159px; z-index: 100}
#p-search {position: fixed; top: 297px; z-index: 100}
#p-tb {position: fixed; top: 365px; z-index: 100}
#p-lang {position: fixed; top: 507px; z-index: 100}
#footer {display: none}

ShinyTalk | Contribs 20:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

You just need to edit your monobook.css, I believe. Of course, hiding the advertisements could result in less money support for Bulbapedia (not sure if it counts the ad as loaded or not if you hide it), so you might want to consider this before you actually do anything; you might be doing the wiki a disservice. Also, chances are you can do a few CSS edits to simply move the ads too, to somewhere else on the page that's less jarring, and you won't have to worry about messing with the wiki's source of income... -- Jioruji Derako.> 10:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Bulbapedia_talk:Privacy_policy/Archive_1&oldid=4426083"