Talk:Kieran

Name origin

Kieran's Japanese name, Suguri (スグリ) is the Japanese word for currant or gooseberry (it is the term for the genus Ribes). Due to Kieran's violet theming it may be specifically referring to blackcurrant (クロスグリ, kurosuguri), which has a distinct purple color. Kieran (in English) probably comes from the word "currant"? --DecafSnorlax (talk) 06:36, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Kieran is an anglicisation of the Irish name Ciarán, which comes from the word ciar, meaning black Magentafeelings (talk) 20:50, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

French Version Age

I think that since the French version is the only clearification of Kieran’s age it should show ~14 just like how the protagonist of PLA have next to their age and the pla protagonist age isn’t cannon and only implied by Cylene as she states the the player character LOOKS not is 15. Similar thing with Kieran because his age is said only in the French version so that age should be there just like the PLA player character. KenneyTGP (talk) 23:49, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

More proof is that Cylene says that the player LOOKS 15 not is, and that’s coming from someone who in that point in the game barely knows you. But for Kieran his age is stated by Carmine who is his sister who would know his age better then anyone else of there than Kieran’s family. So the prof is more solid and I think that should be his age in bulbapidia. KenneyTGP (talk) 00:03, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

"~14" doesn't make sense at all regardless with the French version, where he's unambiguously 14. It doesn't say this in any other version, therefore not canon. The PLA protags on the other hand, is basically just taking throwaway dialogue at face value. Inkster (talk) 00:41, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

But the difference is that she says you LOOK 15 while it is stated by Carmine Kieran’s sister that he is 14 whether it is only in French or not. KenneyTGP (talk) 00:55, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

That’s what I rhink KenneyTGP (talk) 12:25, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

I know this is an old discussion, but why exactly does his age only being in the French version make it "not canon"? The French version is still an official source, and it doesn't contradict anything from the other versions. Hewer (talk) 16:31, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

We're an English wiki covering games that were originally developed in Japanese, so we generally prioritize information that comes from one of those languages. Storm Aurora (talk) 00:39, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Right, but we also cover information from other languages too, because we aim for complete coverage of official Pokémon media. I could understand ignoring the "14 years old" claim if anything from the other languages contradicted it, but it doesn't (in fact they support the claim by implying him to be a teenager/adolescent). Not to mention the things we have cited from guidebooks (Jack's name, for example), which I'd imagine are about as far removed from the original creators as the game translations. Hewer (talk) 09:43, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

True, the specific age stated for him in the French version falls within the range suggested by other versions. However, the fact that all the other versions don't give him an exact age means that there is more nuance to his age than can be properly communicated in the infobox, so we leave "unconfirmed" in the infobox with more details in the note. That way the reader can decide for themselves if they think he's exactly 14 or if they think he's a different age within the "teen" range. At least, I think that's the standard we've decided to implement for ages. Storm Aurora (talk) 01:56, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Would listing his age as "14 (French version only)" and keeping the refnote with the more detailed explanation be a suitable compromise? Landfish7 02:05, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I strongly disagree that guidebooks are as removed from the official release as translations, you say "imagine" and leave no proof, whilst I have seen several things that contradict the Japanese version in Nintendo translations (Mai disliking the Galaxy team, and Splatoon is infamous for having unfaithful translations, a well known case being that Marina says she has a narwhal landlord when the devs have said several times all mammals are extinct). If you are right, it would mean we shouldn't trust guidebooks. Gwen Stacy (talk) 07:36, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Obviously it varies between specific guidebooks and translations, but I think Pokémon generally has a good track record for game translations. An occasional deviation doesn't make the whole source wrong (guidebooks have absolutely made many mistakes, but I don't think it invalidates them entirely). And other pages, such as Abyssal Ruins, have no issue bringing up translations as sources without deciding which is more "canon" than the others. Bringing up Splatoon is irrelevant as those games were translated (not to mention created) by completely different people (and the case you're talking about technically wasn't a translation error since there was no equivalent Japanese text but I digress).
I am definitely in favour of keeping the note in the infobox to explain that his exact age is only stated in the French version and is unspecified in other versions, like how we'd cite any other character's age. I'm just not a fan of arbitrarily deciding that the French version is not "canon" enough to count as confirmation. Hewer (talk) 08:49, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

(resetting indent) We do have precedence of localizations being a bit different, such as Buddhist shrines becoming sculptures of Diglett, or Brawly believing in the Helix Fossil faith. I don't think there's a general rule on which facts to consider more or less canon (due to a localization quirk); I think it's important to assess them on a case-by-case basis.

For example, I would not want to add to Brawly's personality section that he believes in the Helix Fossil faith. I would not consider it definite, undisputed canon, even though the French localization implies this and there's no evidence against it. (So in general, I oppose that sentiment that a non-disputed mention in any of the localization is enough to treat something canon.)

In this case specifally then, I think I prefer having it vague in the infobox with a footnote explaining the intricacies. (Like we also do for Alola's captains like Sophocles.) I cannot assess the intent of Kieran's (exact) age (for an English-speaking audience), I think it might be on some internal (Game Freak) fact sheets for Kieran that we don't know of, or it might be the French localizers being a bit bold - I'm just not sure.

(I don't think the guidebook discussion adds anything to this discussion.) Nescientist (talk) 12:06, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is controversial but I don't really like how the trial captain infoboxes are handled, I preferred when they said 11-19. The way it currently is where we still include citations to prove the age range but don't actually explain what it is we're citing is unnecessarily confusing and vague. Anyway, we do mention the Helix Fossil thing on Brawly's page, the difference is that we don't also have the infobox contradictorily claiming that his faith is unconfirmed. Hewer (talk) 12:53, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I didn't initially notice it, but yeah, you do have a point about "Unconfirmed" potentially being a bit too harsh/contradictory here. Since I can't think of a way to fix it without being less vague, I'd be fine with Landfish's proposal.

(As for Brawly, we do mention it in Trivia, specifying French (and therefore all the intricities). I wouldn't wanna mention it as a definite fact in the infobox, or anywhere where we'd describe him, was my point.) Nescientist (talk) 13:24, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Fair enough. I could settle for something like "14 (French version)", keeping the note about how the other languages are less specific. Hewer (talk) 13:52, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I was going to bring up the fact that when it comes to Pokémon genders in the animated series, the standard for infoboxes is to put "Unknown" with a note when a Pokémon's gender is only confirmed in the dub. However, while looking for a page to use as an example, I noticed that Annie and Oakley's pages include their status as Team Rocket members in the infobox even though that's only implied in the dub. So I guess this really isn't something we're consistent with across the site.

Given that and the arguments made here, I can agree that it feels a little inaccurate to say in the infobox that his age is unconfirmed when it has been confirmed in one localization. I'm in favor of being a little more specific in the infobox note, though - something like "14 (confirmed in French only)". Storm Aurora (talk) 17:59, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I remember BigDocFan having confirmation on the English dub staff getting Pokémon genders straight from the source, so it isn't relevant IMO. Gwen Stacy (talk) 16:14, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

EV's

Do Kieran's Pokémon have any EV's in any of his battles? I don't see any listed; is this because he has none, or because they aren't known? Red Knight (talk) 04:59, 17 December 2025 (UTC)