View source for Bulbapedia talk:Project Routes

==Maps==
Okay, so, Route 28: yes K-J map. Route 27: no. And I've had an idea: a combo map for the list, showing all of the areas in one big map. We could combine it canonically, since there's that one map floating around here... Maybe. I'll ask Zhen Lin about the animation later if you haven't already. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 21:35, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:I've been a bit busy lately, so if you could ask Zhen Lin, that'd be great. The large map idea for the list sounds like a plan as well, as that would really give added detail to the list page. Also, the main reason that I wanted to move this discussion here was that, believe it or not, this page was the #1 wanted article on Bulbapedia because of all the links created from the article footer template. =) --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 04:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

::All right. I shall do so. And as for the combined map: [http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2430/pokmonworldhz7.png]. Should I fill in the empty spot to the west with some abrupt end to the continent? And to the south of Kanto and Johto, the Orange Islands? Or a giant AREA UNKNOWN sticker over ocean? And what about those cheesy region labels? Keep 'em, or out with them?

::And... wow. Oops? How many is that, 40, 50 links? Ah well. I sent off an email message, so hopefully I'll get a reply today. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 03:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Animation is fine, provided:
# The first frame is sufficiently informative - some people disable animated GIFs, so for them they will only see the first frame.
# If the animation loops, then the animation must not become irritating - so a slow strobe would work, but blinking is not good.
# Try not to exceed 200KB per image. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]]<sub>[[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]]</sub> 03:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


::That works. TMF, what's your appraisal of this [http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3517/kantoadvancemapwx7.gif]? I've already added Route 1's to its article and modified the template, but we'll have to get cracking with the other regions fast. I should finish them all for Kanto by tomorrow night. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 06:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC) (Modified 07:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC).)

:::That looks great. These'll be excellent additions to the articles. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 08:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

::::All right. I'll get to the Hoenn ones for the articles we have right now, then go back and start creating the articles we don't have yet in Johto and Sevii to implement the maps. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 08:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::I changed the infobox to use "(Region) Route(Number) Map.gif" as the default map, so that should make the regionmap entry redundant for all of the numbered routes. For the named routes, the regionmap entry is still available so that the correct map can be shown. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 21:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

::::::All right. That works, makes it a whole lot easier, then. All I gotta do is save the files to the right name. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 01:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Hi there!  I'm rather new around here but I wanted to help out with getting maps in for Sinnoh.  I noticed [[User:TTEchidna|TTEchidna]]'s animated maps with route highlights and thought I'd try to replicate that for routes that are still displaying the default image.  [[:Image:Sinnoh_Route202_Map.gif|This]] is my attempt for Route 202.  Should I keep making and uploading them? - [[User:Shadowtrooper|Shadowtrooper]]<sub>[[Image:MasterBallSpriteSmall.png]][[User talk:Shadowtrooper|Talk]]</sub> 01:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
::Well, it looks all right, I do think that the highlight should have rounder edges, though, but eh, that's just me trying to mimic the in-game dex location thingy. Just remember if you do one of those underground/in-cave/other thingy areas (like [[Three Isle Path]] is), that you wait for me to give you the go-ahead. I'm planning to use a red marking for those ones, like what appears for Carnivine's area in the dex.

::Or heck, I could even give you all of the resources I use to make those maps, and you can go from those. If you're interested, contact me on AIM or something, or even on my talk page. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[wp:Echidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">E</span><span style="color:#0000FF;">chidna</span>]]''' 01:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

==Infobox==
Hey, Route people - how attached are you guys to the current style of the infobox?  Because to be honest, the style bothers me each time I see the infobox, and more than once I've been tempted to edit it.  Can something at least be done about the seemingly random background colors of the infobox's sections?  --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 08:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
:What do you suggest for it? For the colors, maybe having them differ depending on whether it's a majority-land, majority-sea, or majority-cave would break up the monotony, with it being shades of green for land, shades of blue for sea, and shades of light brown or grey for cave. It'd certainly make it easier for a person to tell at a glance which one it was, if the route doesn't yet have an in-game map of it available.
:Just so long as it still incorporates all of the stuff we have in it now, I'm fine with changes. Especially the regional overview map that indicates its location, as I haven't yet had a chance to add that in on every route article made so far. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 17:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
::I guess, and again that wouldn't be too hard to incorporate.  I'd really rather just see a colorscheme that's less random than green, lightgreen, gray, gray, cyan.
::And I don't see any problem with the content of the infobox.  It's just the appearance that bothers me. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 19:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, the new version looks awesome. Much more colorful. And leaving the type part out of [[Route 219]] makes it just plain white. So that works out perfect, since we don't know if it's all water, or if it's more like 118, where you have to surf across a teeny strech of water to arrive at the rest of the route. And now to help add the type to all of the rest of the routes... [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 22:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Glad you like it.  I think it also helps to combine some things into the same rows - such as having the alternate name with the normal name, so there's no empty 1px white line if there's no alternate name.  I personally think it's a better fix than turning off rules entirely. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 03:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::The revamped infobox looks real nice. To be honest, the old formatting and background colors were based on [[wp:Template:Infobox road]], so I wasn't attached to the old formatting in the least bit. Again, Pie, great job with the new infobox coding!
:::::I don't think the alternate name should be in the same row as the road name, though. After all, the name of Route 16 is not "Route 16 - Cycling Road", it is "Route 16". --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 08:32, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
::::::Well, I tried it both ways - the problem is that if there is no alternate name, as is the case with many routes, the slot for the alternate names shows up anyway.  It was invisible with no rules, but with rules, it's an annoying little strip between the title and the rest of the table.  I think people can figure out that it's just an alternate name by the content of the article. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 08:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I would agree with you if I was able to see that white strip that you mention. I use Firefox 1.5, so the infobox renders as designed (no strip, alternate name or not). --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 08:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Huh.  Maybe it's just my version of Firefox, then.  But if you can't see the dividing rules, why does it bother you, then?  I mean, if we gave it a separate cell with a different background color, then you'd just have the problem I have when there's no alternate name - you'd see a 1px strip of the background color for no apparent reason.  If we gave the separate cell the same background color, then it would look the same to you either way - but make the strip visible to me.  I don't see how putting the alternate name in a separate cell could possibly help anything. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 08:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
::::::::BTW - upgraded to 1.5, and the table still appears the same. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 08:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

(back to the left) I have no idea why that would be the case, but that's interesting. Gotta love technology. =) In all seriousness, I made a tweak to the infobox coding so that the alternate name entry is optional. I removed the empty entry on [[Route 15]], so check it out to see if making the entry optional fixes the bug. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 08:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:No, no, no, that's not the problem.  See, the thing is that if there was no alternate name, it would do just as it was told - put no name.  But it would still make an empty two-column cell in the table, between the title and the rest of the infobox information, 1px wide.  The only way to fix this is to have an actual infobox on-off switch, so that the code does not include a "|-" in the line before where the alternate title would go - or, the easy way, to just include the alternate name in the same cell as the main name, and do away with that separator completely.  Do you understand, or do I need to switch it temporarily to demonstrate the problem to you? --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 09:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:Actually, I just found an easy way to show - check the infobox for {{m|Wave Guiding Bomb}}, which has a blank entry for its battle description and contest description.  Note that the cell is still made - that's what happens if there's no alternate name and the alternate name has a separate cell.  (Or can you not see the rules on that infobox, either?) --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 09:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

::Looking at the current coding of the infobox, the alternate name is already in the same cell as the main name of the road on a lower line, which I have no problems with.

::(This just dawned on me) However, if you mean that the ''previous'' version of the infobox that gave the alt. name its own cell was the glitchy one, then please accept my apologies for misunderstanding. (It is 5 AM EST, so that explains my lack of clear thinking) --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 09:20, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Yes, that was what I was talking about - and what I thought you were talking about.  I had a feeling there was some sort of miscommunication.  Glad we got it cleared up.  ^^o  (And it's the same ridiculous hour here - hi, Mr. NYer, I'm from RI.  But I'm a little more used to operating at this hour, I guess...) --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 09:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

::(Post-edit conflict): Yes, I can see the little 3px "blank cell" between the two sections. So that confirms you were referring to the previous version of the infobox. Sorry for the misunderstanding on a ton of levels (I'll go to bed before I come off as an ever bigger moron by making more stupid assumptions...) --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 09:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Hey, it's all right.  It's an understandable mistake - being a moron would require you to restore a page after I reverted it to a redirect four times with explanation, warning, and all.  (But on another note, sleep isn't a bad idea, considering the sun's just starting to come up here...) --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 09:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

==Appearance percentages==
One issue done, and onto another - since the Pokémon species articles have enough needing to be added without having a "game locations" table fifty pages long for the common species, but the locations table will link to the routes and locations they're found in anyway, perhaps on the route articles the exact appearance percentages and levels of Pokémon on each route could be added?  Not immediately - though given how quickly you guys seem to be working, I wouldn't be surprised if it could be done sooner than it'll take to fully flesh out and organize the first fifty species articles... --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 03:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
:That's a good idea. I've seen it on a few of the route pages so far, I figure we could do it for them all eventually. The levels would be a nice addition, too. If we used a table, maybe we could use little color boxes that'd represent the eleven versions, showing which ones they appear in, so the table doesn't strech. They could be labeled, like, a red one colored FF0000 have an R, a blue one colored 0000FF with a B, a yellow with FFFF00 with a Y... Then for similar-colored ones, like Ruby and Red, Ruby could have a darker or lighter color, I think. Maybe Groudon-red, which seems a bit darker than FF-red. Likewise, Sapphire could have a darker blue, like the one called sapphire in the list of colors on Wikipedia. And Emerald could have a darker green than LeafGreen. Heck, I'd think we should go by cartrige color, having the FR box be more orange than the R box, and the LG box being closer to 00FF00 green than the G one, which would be closer to the 008000 one, like (I assume) the cartrige. And maybe they could have links to each version, like R and B would link to Red and Blue, in case someone's still confused about it.
:I dunno. Mine might not be a workable or even smart idea, I think it'd look cool, though, not that that's the important thing. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 08:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
::It's a good thought - but if I'm picturing this design correctly, I think the main problem would be that it might be even more difficult than it is currently to note the differences between the versions, including levels and appearance rates.  Though if it were still split up by generation (which is never a bad idea anyway), it would be similar to the current design, but quicker and easier to understand with the visual aid.  (In fact... hang on, I think I'm going to try semi-incorporating that idea into the Route 1 article.) --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 08:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Pie, that table looks excellent. The only question I have is where would I find the appearance rates? For the levels, I can get those for Gen. II easily, but I'd have to do some guesswork for Gen. I and III. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 21:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
::::I looked around - the only website I've found that has appearance rates is [http://psypokes.com/ Psypoke], and it's difficult to convert that information - they have the percentage a Pokémon appears on a route for each version, but they don't have any pages with the whole route's appearance percentages.  Other websites don't mention the appearance percentages at all, and I haven't found one yet that says the levels.  If we can get that information - which we may have to do by playing our games a lot and checking published strategy guides instead of online ones - we'd probably be the best source out there for wild Pokémon encounters. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 00:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I just noticed that the Japanese Pokémon Wiki lists Pokémon levels for every Generation (at least on Route 3). I wonder where they were able to obtain their information and, more importantly, if those levels would be correct for the English-speaking games. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 05:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Also, what colors should be used for Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald? --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 23:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
::::I've mostly been using the ones I use in my user profile - and for Ruby and Emerald, I use fee and efe.  However, those are really pastel on their own, and there's nothing wrong with reusing fcc, ccf and cfc - first off, RSE doesn't share any routes with RBY or FRLG, and if you notice both R and FR have fcc as their color anyway and it looks fine. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 00:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Widening the scope? ==

This project already covers all numbered routes and major non-numbered routes and paths. Should we widen the scope to virtually anything that isn't in a town/city (which would widen our scope to include areas like Cerulean Cave, Viridian Forest, Rock Tunnel, Union Cave, etc.)? --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 21:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
:I don't know - they don't really seem to fit, just by the fact that they're not Routes in any sense.  Maybe you need to start a new project - or create an umbrella project for this, Project Cities and Towns, and all other locations - Project World or something. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 00:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
::Well, some of the caves could count as routes, like Union Cave and Rock Tunnel, since they have two separate ends and need to be passed through to get to the next destination. Cerulean Cave wouldn't, though, since it's one-way, and doesn't connect two places, but instead serves more as an optional dungeon-- which everyone takes anyway. Or else we could move the caves and such to a Project Caves or Project Dungeons, leave the underground connector routes to here... We'd have to be careful about naming it, though, Ilex and Viridian Forests, and Petalburg Woods aren't really dungeons or caves. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 01:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::Point taken. I agree with you whole heartedly. In retrospect, I wouldn't consider Viridian Forest (which is completely encompassed by Route 2) or Cerulean Cave (which has only one way in and one way out) routes either. On the other hand, Union Cave, which links the Ruins of Alph, Route 32 and Azalea Town via Route 33, may fit in the same way that Diglett's Cave does.

::As for the umbrella project, here's an idea for a hierarchy:

::{| border=0
!Parent
!Descendant
!Sub-Descendant
|-
|rowspan=2|Project World
|rowspan=2|Project Locations
|Project Cities and Towns
|-
|Project Routes
|}

::Here's my reasoning for the World/Locations parentage. Let's say someone wants to start a project for PokéMarts (including the three department stores). Instead of being an orphan project, it would fall under the realm of Project World. Also, similar to Wikipedia's [[wp:WP:USRD|U.S. Roads project]], which encompasses all states that don't have their own project, Project Locations would cover all areas not covered by Cities/Towns or Routes. Thoughts? --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 01:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, come to think of it, World is a bit too large - in a sense, Pokédex, MoveDex, and BerryDex would all fall under it as well - the only thing that wouldn't would be stuff like Project TCGDex and Project TFGDex.  Maybe just stick with the Locations umbrella for now, and later consider something with an umbrella that large. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 03:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
::::I agree there, Project World would be more like a huge parent project for the games' separate things. But the sub-project Locations could be used for things like landmarks, which Viridian Forest, Union Cave, and several other not-really-routes fall under. Heck, sub-sub-project Landmarks could fit all of the blue-dot-things in, like Lavender Tower, Victory Road, Mt. Moon, Mt. Ember, Mt. Mortar, the Tin and Brass/Burned Towers...
::::However, I do think that some of the caves and such fall under designations as both landmarks and routes, like Ilex Forest and Rusturf Tunnel. We could include them as part of both, could we not? Likewise, Indigo Plateau could fall under both Landmark and City, since it's not a city in the strictest sense, but still not just a minor landmark, like Rock Tunnel. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:TTEchidna|TTEchidna]] ([[User talk:TTEchidna|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TTEchidna|contribs]]).</small>

(back left) I think that we need to adopt a set standard on what landmarks should be considered routes. Here's my proposal:
*Tunnels and paths (Jagged Path, Diglett's Cave, Rusturf Tunnel): Yes
*Inter-route single-level caves/forests (Union Cave, Diglett's Cave (again), Ilex Forest): Yes
*Inter-route multi-level caves (Mt. Moon, Meteor Falls): No
*Intra-route caves/forests (Rock Tunnel, Viridian Forest, Petalburg Woods): No

Anything that is a "No" above would be covered by [[Bulbapedia:Project Locations|Project Locations]], which is the new parent of Project Routes. Also, the [[List of locations by name]] needs a good amount of expanding.

BTW, Project Locations covers everything from [[Pokémon Tower]] (Lavender Tower) to [[Cerulean Cave]] to [[Viridian Forest]]. I'd consider Indigo a city, personally. I dunno why, but when I think of Indigo, I consider it a city, as it has a Poké Center and a PokéMart like other cities. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 19:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:Sounds like a plan to me. And the only reason I said that Indigo could be both is because in GSC, it's only a red dot on the map, not a square like the other cities. And there's not much else there in all three generations besides the league. Speaking of Indigo Plateau, would the two Victory Roads fall under the same jurisdiction, since one's technically in the middle of a city, while the other's an intra-route cave? Do they have separate articles, even?
:Also, oops, I forgot to sign it. I could've sworn I did... Ah well. Tildes away: [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 22:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::Both Kanto Victory Roads wouldn't be routes under the above proposal. The Gen. I/III Victory Road is an intra-route cave located entirely within Route 23. The Gen. II Victory Road is an inter-route multi-level (in this case, two levels) cave.
::I see your point completely regarding Indigo as a combo landmark/city. Still, I'd consider it a city, but that's just me. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 23:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Would that count for Hoenn's too, though? Since it's in the middle of a city. It'd be like the Brass and Tin Towers, right? Those are in the list, so I figured I'd put the two VRs there too.
:::Also, what're your thoughts on the [[Tin Tower#Pokémon|Tin Tower]] Pokémon distribution? Do you think that it's good enough for when we get to the Whirl Islands as well, for Lugia, and for Cerulean Cave, Mewtwo? Would it work for anywhere that there's a legendary catchable? [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 00:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

::::That would count for Hoenn's as well, as it meets two of the "no" requirements: an intra-route (city) cave and it has multiple levels. So yep, the three Victory Roads would fall under the realm of Project Locations, not Project Routes (so their inclusion on the list of locations page is OK). For the Tin Tower Pokémon distribution, I would use "Event" rather than "Special Encounter" personally. Everything else looks fine, though you could probably get away with combining all of the tables into a single table. See [[Cerulean Cave]] and [[Pokémon Tower]] for how I set the tables up. Now I just have to add Mewtwo to the Cerulean Cave list... --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 01:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

(back to the left) All right. I'll get right on it. And I've just noticed something... We don't have an article with the definition of Route. Maybe we should make it so that people will know jut what is and what isn't a route when new stuff's released. And yes, it looks much better. Now to do the easiest two ever: Terra and Marine Caves. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 03:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

:That's a good idea. I'll make the [[Route]] article, complete with the definitions agreed upon above. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 03:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

== Summary of infobox changes ==

Here's a brief summary of the changes I made to the infobox today:
*For numbered routes, the region map now appears automatically. For named routes, parameter "regionmap" must still be set.
*The region name in the "region" parameter no longer needs to be wikified upon entry into the box as it is now wikified by the template - in fact, by wikifying it, it disables the automatic map retrieval.
*Region_special has been implemented for routes that span two regions (currently, this is limited to only Route 28).
*The "junction" parameter can be omitted for routes that have no junctions. In its place, the word "None" will be displayed for junctions. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 22:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

And another that was made a couple of days ago:
*The "alternate name" parameter is now optional.

A lot of routes need to be tweaked to match the new coding, specifically the region name needs to be delinked, the alternate name parameter can be omitted where it is not used and, for numbered routes, the regionmap entry can be removed. Comments and questions are welcome. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 22:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
:I tried a while back to implement some sort of way to indicate on which of the Sevii Islands the routes there were, in the same place as the alternate name thing, but it ended up messing things up, so I changed it back. Is there any way to make it do that without screwing up the regular routes? [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 02:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, there is, and I just did it. =) The "sevii_island" parameter should work now with no problems or conflicts with "alternate_name". --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 02:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Perfect. Now it'll be easier for people who can't tell which island is which. But should I put it as the number or as the name, Knot or One Island, for example. I've always considered the numbers to be the town names, and the names to be what all of the parts fall under. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 18:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Yeah, we should use the number (One Island) for the town on the island and the name (Knot Island) for the island itself. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 21:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::::Okay. So that'll be something to do in a little while, stop redirects from One Island and such to the named one, and give the numbered one the town infobox and so on. Or else, we could just plop the infobox into the named island... It's your call. Should we un-redirect them all, then use One, Two, etc. for towns, and the others (Knot, Boon, etc.) as something like sub-regions? We might have to fix considerable numbers of pages which might rely on the redirect... [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 00:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

::::::Here's an idea. The numbered island pages (One Island, Two Island, etc.) should probably be converted to disambiguation pages. On the page, it'd be something like
::::::{|
|-
|'''One Island''' can refer to two locations in the [[Sevii Islands]]:
|-
|*The island known as One Island, officially named [[Knot Island]].
|-
|*The town named [[One Island (town)|One Island]] on Knot Island.
|}
::::::The city infoboxes would then be placed on the (town) articles. The location infoboxes would go on the Island articles. The only place where a disambiguation page isn't necessary would be [[Floe Island]], where the town and the island are the one and same. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 01:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

(back left) Perfect. Works well enough that it'd not be too much of a problem to change the names in the templates on the Island Route articles. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 23:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

:OK, the first of the disambiguation pages has been made at [[One Island]]. Once the articles are made for the towns on the islands (ex. "One Island (town)", "Two Island (town)", etc.), I'll convert the rest of the redirects to disambiguation pages (with the exception being Four Island, of course). --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 00:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

::And now, what colors to use for them? One Island's reddish, because of the island's relation to fire, and I'd have a light blue for Four Island, if we do that infobox there. Also, speaking of the Sevii Islands, should all nine go under locations? That'd even allow us to break apart Four Island and Floe Island, with Four Island falling under Cities and Towns, and Floe Island talking about Icefall Cave and such, like I've sort of modified [[Knot Island]] to do. I'm already putting Birth Island and Navel Rock as locations. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 06:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Yeah, the islands themselves should be under locations. You make a good point with Four/Floe Island there, as I forgot about Icefall Cave earlier. Oops. So, as you stated, Floe Island would be a location while Four Island would be the town. Birth Island and Navel Rock should be locations, as there are no towns called Eight Island or Nine Island on them anyway (at least, not to my knowledge). For the colors, as you said, Islands 1 and 4 are pretty obvious. Two Island has the waterfall north of town (so maybe a deep pastel blue), for Three Island, the area is densely populated with forest (green), Five Island has the nearby meadow (light green?), Six Island has the Ruin Valley (maybe the cave color from the route infobox) and Seven Island has Sevault Canyon (maybe cave again?). Those are some of my ideas. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 07:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I think they're all good, but maybe we could have either Six or Seven be a lighter, more sandy-brown color, instead of the dark cave brown. And remember, Six is also made up of the Green and Water Paths, Pattern Bush, and Outcast Island, though Seven might be good with cave colors in the infobox. I did have a hard time choosing for Navel and Birth, though... And I wonder, are there yet redirect pages for [[Eight Island]] and [[Nine Island]] to them? If there aren't yet, that's what I'm doing next. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 09:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

== Routes or not? ==

Here's a small grab bag of locations that I couldn't make up my mind on whether they are routes or not, along with my personal opinion. Thoughts and comments are welcome.

*Ruins of Alph - No
*National Park - No
--[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 03:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
:Those two are definitely more landmark than route, even though they have more than one entrance. And since the Ruins of Alph refers to the outside area as well as the Unown caves, it's different than, say, Tanoby Ruins vs Tanoby Chambers. Tanoby Ruins is more of a route... well, mostly for how it appears on the map. And what of Fiery Path, is it more a route or a location, since it only goes within Route 112, like Viridian Forest stays within Route 2. Seaside Cycling Road is certainly a route, as Cycling Road in Kanto is, even if it begins and ends on Route 110. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 06:27, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

::Very good point regarding Fiery Path. The lazy answer would be to say point #1 of the route definition (tunnels and paths are routes) makes Fiery Path a route. But even at 2:30 AM Eastern, I won't be lazy. =) To me, this is more about perspective than anything else. Fiery Path, IMHO, is a route because it is a named road and it is a straight-forward, point A to point B path. This is different than Viridian Forest mostly because with Viridian Forest, a trainer has to make no less than 10 or so turns to traverse the area, plus if you're not careful, you could get lost in Viridian Forest. If someone gets lost in the Fiery Path, well, it's time to buy them a [[Town Map]]. =) --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 06:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:::A good point. Eh, I suppose it could count more as a route anyway, after all, in-game it's more mandatory than Mt. Moon is. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 07:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

:::How about Three Isle Path? It goes within Three Isle Port, and only that. Location or Route? [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 21:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Three Isle Path could go either way IMO. It could be a location for being within a route or it could be a route in the way Fiery Path is. My personal preference would be to make it a route, since it's fairly easy to navigate and it is similar in nature to Fiery Path and (in composition, not where it links) to the Rusturf Tunnel. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 22:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::All right. I assumed as much. I just added it on the list, so an article'll be coming up as soon as I get done with the next couple. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 03:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Tengan Mountain Range: Route or not, for future reference? I'm kinda... iffy on it. Maybe we should wait for D/P to come out and people to get that far? After all, it seems to be some sort of overland path, with Route 211 going through maybe a tunnel underneath... Should we leave it unclassified for now, then add it to whatever list we decide later? I mean, it might be something like the Sevii Routes, just named, instead of numbered as 231. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 11:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I'd say wait until D/P are released before we classify where it falls under. That'd be the safest bet. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 23:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

== Remaining Johto Routes ==

I probably won't have the chance to really finish them up until this November, since I didn't bring a GBA or SP with, just my DS. However, the Hoenn and Sevii ones I'll definitely be working on when I get the chance. As I've been adjusting to college, I'd say that next weekend's when I'll certainly be back to my full capacity. I'll try getting out something during this weekend, though. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 03:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

== Exciting news! ==

[http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml Check it out!] Routes 201-230! That's 15 each. Won't be too hard to get everything Wiki'd up by the time the game comes stateside, I don't think.

...only problem is that there are no ''WORKING'' ROMs for DS, so we're kinda... eh, limited with the map we have. Hopefully there'll be a better-res version (preferribly in PNG) soon... Ah well. I'm updating the list of routes with this new info from Serebii... [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 06:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

:Sounds good. I've been on a "Bulbabreak" for three weeks, so I'm more than ready to get back to work. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 00:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, and I haven't really been doing many of the routes, I've mostly been working on the Shin'ō dex order. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 19:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

:::Meh...apparently I won't have as nearly as much time as I thought I would, so I probably won't be able to get back to work on the route articles for another couple of months. Sorry. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|C]]</sup> 01:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

::::It's all right. We don't need them all done completely immediately. Besides, this is a whole community of editors, it'll all get done eventually, and probably STILL before DP comes out here, no matter how many of us are missing. Don't be down on yourself because of it. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 04:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

==A new participant! Chosen!==
I have the pages for [[Resort Gorgeous]] and [[Water Labyrinth]] up. Obviously, there are things missing, but I put up Items and put the Pokémon in.
:Well, they're looking all right. They could use a few improvements, though. Gotta stress the use of the preview. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 06:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

== Music? ==

I know if we actually put the music itself onto the server, it might get us into real trouble, usage and space-wise. Well, I dunno, would it fall under fair use? Eh, it's a bit big anyway, so we can safely say no to it. However, route music is, to me, one of the most memorable parts of the Pokémon games. I mean, tell you the truth, I was extremely happy at the inclusion of the Route 42, 43, 44/Lake of Rage music in the Sevii Islands routes. So happy, I literally jumped up on hearing it, and just sat there and took it in.

But since this is an encyclopedia on all things Pokémon, why don't we include some sort of reference to what the route music is, such as a link to a page on the track itself, or routes/areas with similar music? It could go into the infobox, no problem, however... I'm crap at trying to set those in, and I'd like the opinions on the others in the project before saying "let's plow forward with this!" [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 09:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
:I feel the same way about the route music (and, yes, I was just as excited as soon as I set foot on a Sevii Island route and heard some of the early Johto music). I think the best way to do it would be to create an entry in the infobox with a link to the "track", then create a page for the track that can mention what routes the track is used on. What the pages for the track should be called, I have no idea as, at least as far as I know, the tracks have no name. I could be wrong, though. --[[User:TwinsMetsFan|'''<font color="#CC0018">T</font><font color="#0000C0">M</font>F''']] <sup>[[User talk:TwinsMetsFan|Let's Go Mets]] - [[Special:Contributions/TwinsMetsFan|Stats]]</sup> 13:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
::They have names according to the official CDs of the music... However, those are merely a reference to the Japanese names of the towns and such. For example, Routes {{rtn|13}}, {{rtn|14}}, and {{rtn|15}} are listed as "Road to {{tt|Sekichiku|Fuchsia}} - from {{tt|Shion|Lavender}} Town", and Oak's lab is listed as "{{tt|Okido|Oak}} Research Institute". We could do it like the Japanese anime episodes' names, with the names as Japanese, but using the tt template for their English translation.

::The only potential problems I see arising are from Nanashima, which is the name, according to the track, of the route music for the late Sevii routes. As you might know, Nanashima is the name for the Sevii Islands themselves. That'd be a problem if we were to have redirects from Japanese place names to their English-language counterparts, as we do with some. [[User:TTEchidna|Tom Temprotran]] 08:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

==Ranger==

I don't know if anybody noticed this, but for Fiore locations, East Road was listed, but North Road was not, so I added it.

==Pokémon Lists==
New proposal for the Pokémon Lists.

The current one (taken from Route 6), would be...
{| border=1 width=350px style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #999; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #{{RouteInfo/landdark}};"
! width=20% | Name
! width=18% colspan=3 | Games
! width=25% | Location
! width=27% | Levels
! width=10% | Rate
|-
| align="center" rowspan=2| {{p|Pidgey}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 13-16
| align="center" | 35%
|-
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 15-17
| align="center" | 45%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Pidgeotto}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 17
| align="center" | 5%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Rattata}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 14-16
| align="center" | 25%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Jigglypuff}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 3-7
| align="center" | 10%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Oddish}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 13-16
| align="center" | 40%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Meowth}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 10-16
| align="center" | 25%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Mankey}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 10-16
| align="center" | 25%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Psyduck}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Surfing
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 95%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Golduck}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Surfing
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 5%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Poliwag}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Good Rod
| align="center" | 10
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Abra}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 7
| align="center" | 15%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Bellsprout}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 13-16
| align="center" | 40%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Shellder}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Super Rod
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" rowspan=2 | {{p|Goldeen}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Good Rod
| align="center" | 10
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Super Rod
| align="center" | 5-20
| align="center" | 100%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Krabby}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Super Rod
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Magikarp}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Old Rod
| align="center" | 5
| align="center" | 100%
|}
Why don't we make it a little more readable by doing...
===Generation I===
{| border=1 width=350px style="background: #fff; border:1px solid #999; border-collapse:collapse;"
|- style="background: #{{RouteInfo/landdark}};"
! width=20% | Name
! width=18% colspan=3 | Games
! width=25% | Location
! width=27% | Levels
! width=10% | Rate
|-
| align="center" style="background: #{{RouteInfo/landlight}};" colspan=7 | Land
|-
| align="center" rowspan=2| {{p|Pidgey}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 13-16
| align="center" | 35%
|-
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 15-17
| align="center" | 45%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Pidgeotto}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 17
| align="center" | 5%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Rattata}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 14-16
| align="center" | 25%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Jigglypuff}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 3-7
| align="center" | 10%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Oddish}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 13-16
| align="center" | 40%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Meowth}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 10-16
| align="center" | 25%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Mankey}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 10-16
| align="center" | 25%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Abra}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 7
| align="center" | 15%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Bellsprout}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Grass
| align="center" | 13-16
| align="center" | 40%
|-
| align="center" style="background: #{{RouteInfo/waterlight}};" colspan=7 | Fishing
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Poliwag}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Good Rod
| align="center" | 10
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Shellder}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Super Rod
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" rowspan=2 | {{p|Goldeen}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Good Rod
| align="center" | 10
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Super Rod
| align="center" | 5-20
| align="center" | 100%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Krabby}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" |
| align="center" | Super Rod
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 50%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Magikarp}}
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #fcc;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|R]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ccf;" | [[Pokémon Red and Blue|B]]
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Old Rod
| align="center" | 5
| align="center" | 100%
|-
| align="center" style="background: #{{RouteInfo/waterlight}};" colspan=7 | Surfing
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Psyduck}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Surfing
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 95%
|-
| align="center" | {{p|Golduck}}
| align="center" |
| align="center" |
| align="center" width=6% style="background: #ffc;" | [[Pokémon Yellow|Y]]
| align="center" | Surfing
| align="center" | 15
| align="center" | 5%
|}
[[User:Dunstvangeet|Dunstvangeet]] 18:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
:Kinda redundant to say "surfing" and "fishing" when it says it in the line anyway, plus the morning/day/night things would screw things up. Perhaps coloring the location column would help, you tell me. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">TTE</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#0000FF">chidna</span>]]''' 01:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

==End of Routes==

I have been wondering about this, and this seems like the best place to ask. I'm talking about the end of Routes. For example, on the [[Route 1]] page it says:

''North end: Routes 2/22 in Viridian''

However, I find this to be wrong. Routes end when they run into another route (like Route 22 ending at the beginning of Route 23), or a town. Route 1 ends when it enters Viridian City, it does not go into the city, nor do any of the other routes, so why are many routes listed like this?

--[[User:HoennMaster|--HoennMaster]] 03:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Spinner008's Corner ==

I went and hacked out the encounter rates for all the Gen I games, and I can confirm that the Japanese Red and Green are the same as the English Red and Blue. The Japanese Blue has some different rates in most places though; is there a way for that to be added to the current look? [[User:Spinner008|Spinner008]] 07:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

All the towns in Johto have been adapted to the new look for the encounter rates. Is there a way that I don't know about for doing multi-row Pokémon (like Pidgey on [[Route 29]])? Giving them each their own row looks too cluttered. [[User:Spinner008|Spinner008]] 07:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
:Well, if it somehow is different, I just put them in twice, once for GS, once for C. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 14:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)