Talk:Unite Battle

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Reunite this with Pokémon UNITE

So while this is a concept, it's also equivalent to game modes. The information has to be on both pages. This page should be more about the concepts of Unite Battles (why are they happening, how they are happening, what are the in-universe rules You know, the backstory stuff from the manga) And UNITE is about how all this comes together in game Salmancer (talk) 20:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Also according to Pokemon Battle Revolution and the Pokepark games, games with a small number of locations should also have their locations on the game page. Which is even more important here because in UNITE, location and game mode are synonymous. Salmancer (talk) 21:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

I understand you are right that the "Unite Battle" page should explain those in-universe things like why and how the Unite Battles are happening, including the manga backstory. However, I would argue that as long as we have an "Unite Battle" page, it should most likely also have a detailed explanation of the game mechanics involved in Unite Battles as well, including the battle modes and stages. I would even assume that most readers would want to use the "Unite Battle" article for help concerning how to play the game rather than just to understand the story.
In my opinion, the page Pokémon UNITE should explain the basics of the Unite Battle gameplay but not in excessive detail, and link back here for the full explanation. However, I believe I made the mistake of removing too much information from "Pokémon UNITE" when I created the "Unite Battle" page.
I see you requested this information to be merged back from "Unite Battle" into "Pokémon UNITE" and the information to be on both pages. So maybe we can do it like this if you agree: I am doing what you said, I already reverted my edit and merged the Unite Battle information back into "Pokémon UNITE". However, I also created a request to eventually remove some of the Unite Battle information from "Pokémon UNITE" when possible, as I don't think that all the Unite Battle game mechanics and details should really be completely repeated on both the "Unite Battle" and "Pokémon UNITE" pages.
You mentioned Pokémon Battle Revolution, PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure, and PokéPark 2: Wonders Beyond. They have a small list of locations, but they don't have in-depth information about those locations, which is instead found on Colosseum (Pokétopia), PokéPark (game), and the specific location pages. They have some information about battle mechanics, but not nearly so much as the detailed content about Unite Battles currently on the Pokémon UNITE article. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:46, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
I respectfully disagree. Put simply, the ways Unite Battles work are irrevocably tied to UNITE's gameplay, such that it really does have to be on UNITE's page. The Quick Chat system The "Unite Battle" page should be largely system agnostic.
Let's think about how people wind up on "Unite Battle". Presumably it's either from "Pokémon battle", "Aeos Island", "Challenge the World", the non-existent "Unite Battle Committee", the non-existent "Aeos energy", from a character page ("Eribe", "Phorus", "Zirco"), or from many of the manga pages. I do not think people coming from any of these pages need to know how UNITE's matchmaking in Ranked works, but that's what on the page. Ranked matchmaking is very definitely a set of game mechanics. (matchmaking in general, really.) Similarly, what does CPU Match and Random Match mean without the context of this being a game? In my opinion, very little, which is why it should only be on "UNITE"'s page. I also don't think Quick Chat's messages are all that relevant on "Unite Battle" but are to "Pokémon UNITE"
Unite Battles are core to Pokémon Unite's gameplay loop. Trying to describe other parts of the game, such as why you want to get Aeos energy rewards and Aeos coins and Aeos tickets is difficult when it can't get worked back into, "and those things go back into the battle sequence you just read about"
I think trying to shortcut creating a "Unite Battle" page by hacking off critical game information from the page about the game is the wrong way to approach this. On top of moving information that has to be on the game page, it results in a wonky article which doesn't have the context for the game mechanics. (The person who wrote Battle Modes clearly thought the Gameplay section would be above it. Its rather unhelpful to read it without Gameplay also being on the page) I think it should be backward filled from the template of the "Pokémon battle" page, except with UNITE mechanics instead of core series mechanics. Salmancer (talk) 17:43, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
I am sorry for removing too much information when I edited the "Pokémon UNITE" article at that point. As I was saying, I readded that information back to that article a few hours later, after you opened this discussion.
However, I would still argue that ideally the level of detail about the game mechanics of Unite Battles should be higher in the "Unite Battle" article and lower in the "Pokémon UNITE" article.
Yes, I'm pretty sure the "Pokémon UNITE" page really needs to explain what are Unite Battles, what are the battle modes, and what is the list of Stages, but I would suggest that the explanation is currently too much detailed on the main game page.
Yes, I agree that the "Gameplay" section should be above the list of battle modes. I have now copied both the Gameplay section and the list of battle modes into the "Unite Battle" article, and also added a request to trim down those sections in the "Pokémon UNITE" if possible.
Did you mention at some point that the "Unite Battle" page does not need to explain the Unite Battle gameplay at all? For instance, would you suggest that the "Unite Battle" page does not need to mention what is a Standard Battle, Ranked Battle, or Quick Battle?
Here's another example: If I wanted to know what's the Top Path, Central Area, and Bottom Path, where would I find this information? It's currently not found in either the "Pokémon UNITE" or "Unite Battle" article, but maybe that could be mentioned on both pages in the future.
Incidentally, the "Pokémon UNITE" page currently mentions the existence of moves, but does not have any information about basic attacks. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 18:50, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
If you wanted to know about paths and areas, it would go in a paragraph above Stages, which would read to the effect of: "Each of the stages in UNITE, except for certain event stages, are laterally symmetrical in terms of obstacles, wild Pokémon, Berry positions, and other interactive elements, though visual elements are not mirrored in this way. This is to the point that the player is always depicted on the purple team; the positions of the opposing team are mirrored on each player's view to create the illusion of there being an orange team. [paragraph break] Each stage has a base for each team, which is where each team begins the Unite Battle from and where members return to after being knocked out. The stages Remoat Stadium, Mer Stadium, and Theia Sky Ruins have a similar structure, divided into a Top Path, Bottom Path, and Central Area. [Insert general patterns for each section, including class recommendations] However, each character has their own section recommended, which does not always match the class suggestions. [clause about Meowscarada being recommended to the Bottom Path despite being a Speedster] [Insert clause about Mer Stadium not having these recommendations] Even then, players are free to experiment and determine which areas best support the strategies they implement as a team." And then a modified version of the second paragraph which cuts out the strategy portions goes on Aeos Island, because the first paragraph and the strategy parts of the second paragraph are written with respect to how the game functions, and not how these locations exist.
Turns out, long articles aren't necessarily bad either. UNITE just has the perfect storm of lack of in game communication of mechanics and dense mechanics. (Saying "basic attack" isn't in the gameplay section is a bit like saying "scatter" isn't in the gameplay section of Quest. That's probably a good case to add it.) If length is truly an issue, my first thought would be having event battles only have their table and putting the info elsewhere because explaining their differences here is difficult. (There's an entire clause in Move that's just "reducing cooldowns in Panic Parade does weird things", that's how much those battle types have to document.) And even then, Panic Parade and Boss Rush should be getting their pages... eventually. And Quick Battle rules need their summaries on this page, and the full write ups on the location pages. But we'll get there too, and it's not by trying to plug text made for one context into another context.
The trouble child is Ranked. Put simply, how the game determines ranks is only important in the context of the video game. Without it, who cares? And it's not like "Pokémon battle" has information relating to the core series games' online matchmaking, that goes on "Battle Stadium" instead. Similarly, the difference between CPU Match, Friendly Match, and Random Match is irrelevant outside of how other players are/are not involved, and thus is only important in the context of playing a video game. Salmancer (talk) 10:07, 25 February 2024 (UTC)