|Shipping Pages Notice|
Do AntiRocketShippers count? They aren't even RocketShippers! Why not add "AntiPokéShippers" to the types of PokéShippers? Ketsuban
It's worth noting their major arguments against the pairing. Argy
Question on that -- Then why isn't there a section for "AntiPokéShippers" in the PokéShippers page?? Seems a little bias to me. I am thinking the Sects of RocketShipping needs to be rewritten. Instead of there being a section for "AntiRocketShippers" under the categories of RocketShipping (which makes no sense to me), there should just be a paragraph noting the major arguments against the pairing. --Puff 17:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know a page we can link to that lists hints for RocketShipping? I want to link to Pokemopolis' anti-RocketShipping page, but it would be unfair to have that as the only external link. FabuVinny 14:01, 25 October 2005 (CDT)
Done and done. Musashi
Just curious, in reference to the last edit made on (15:15, 25 March 2007) by FrozenPandaMan - Why has the term "R*cketshippers" been changed to "Rocketshippers". :/ I'm not exactly active on creating shipping names, I just follow them - So before I make an edit I just want to know what the current shipping term should be for the 'old school shippers'. --Puff 16:22, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Whilst I agree with freedom and speech and the right to state what you believe, I think that this comment under RocketShippers: "Lives for any sort of event that can be considered a hint, no matter how small. The infamous manga is their bible." and a few others is a little too much. :/ Stating facts against the shipping is fine and all, but that just seems a bit too harsh to me and could be potentially insulting. (As I'm new here, I didn't want to edit anything before discussing it first.) Your thoughts? --Rachie 16:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I very much agree -- I think that this entire article should be looked at and revised.. What gets me is that there is an AntiRocketShipper section, and yet there is nothing like that in some of the other shipping pages -- PokéShipping is a main example. --Puff 04:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
A strange feeling
- Sign your posts, and just because you have a feeling DOES NOT mean that it's true. Until stated within the anime, it's Fanon (Fan-made).
Even if I personally think James may be Bi. Takoto タコト| サソデイ = 愛 00:04, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
- Most tranvestites are straight. Eddie Izzard (well-known British crossdressing comedian) compares it to being a "male lesbian." ~ShinyAeon, Aug 20, 2009, 5:10 AM CST
I did an overhaul of the page to make it less biased. Feel free to edit as you see fit, but please don't make it that biased and rude again. D: CherryParanoia 05:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Removing the sects is one thing, but can we leave the rest of the page as it was? I don't think this current version gives as much information as the previous one. Bulbagarden Rocketshippers worked very hard on giving the page the revamp it desperately needed back in May, so I think the history section should be restored to what it was. Rocket Girl 07:10, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm all for keeping the sects, too. They're defunct now, but they're still a significant part of the ship's history. Either way, I think the page should be changed back to how it was before this "overhaul". The Bulbagarden Rocketshippers worked hard to make it presentable and informative, and it was just fine the way it was because of their extensive revamp. --Demon of Light 07:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm with Demon of Light. Unlike the other ships, Rocketshippings' sects are a HUGE and notable part of its history. And from what I've read, I know you think you're doing the page a big favour (maybe you read old comments saying that the page was rubbish .etc.) but like Rocket Girl said, the Bulbagarden Rocketshippers put a lot of thought into it and gave the page a massive overhaul in May. What you've done is like taking a step backwards rather than forwards and it's now less informative than before. --ii kanji 10:23, 20 August 2009
- I'm also for keeping the sects in - there are so many older websites and fanfic comments out there that mention them, new fans that run into the terms need an overview! And - biased? Shipping is a bias in and of itself. I really don't understand what you mean, CherryParanoia. And needless to say, if you're going to make accusations of rudeness, you should be specific about what exactly you believe was "rude." I vote we restore the page as it was, and then reexamine it - if there's some specific wording you object to, then a little precise surgery will suffice better than this mass amputation. ~ShinyAeon, Aug 20, 2009, 4:56 AM CST
In some episode, I cant really remember which, I think it was early AG, James says something like "but Jessie darling..." I would add this but, as I cant remember the episode... --Juzey!! (Talk) 17:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
That was only in the dub so it doesn't count. Rocket Girl 20:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Spanish dub hints
I noticed there are numerous hints in the article which refer to "the Spanish dub". Are they from the Latin American or European Spanish dub? I think this should be clarified in the article for factual accuracy as these regions have different translations of the anime. (Also, should they be grouped separately?) --ZestyCactus 05:38, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
- The reason I think they shouldn't be in a separate section is because the Latin American Spanish dub is based on the English dub, so much of the dialogue (even things you might not expect, like idioms and word play) is identical. I think it'd be more sensible to just contrast the differences instead of writing out the Spanish versions of shippy dialogue that I've already talked about in the English section. On the other hand, one of the reasons one could argue for a separate section is that in the Latin American dub, Jessie and James are either canon or very, very close to canon (I've added a part where Jessie says to James "You love me so much, aww," and I'm going to add a part where James refers to Jessie as his "girlfriend."); which is obviously in stark contrast to the ambiguity in the the English and Japanese versions. TR Jessie (talk) 00:10, 9 February 2014 (UTC)TR Jessie
- Good plan, I switched it. On the record, I made "Manga evidence" its own heading so that future hints from Ash and Pikachu can be added if they are discovered (also anything from the movie manga adaptations, especially Mewtwo Strikes Back! since it was also created by Toshihiro Ono, so anyone who has actually read the manga might be able to determine if there are any shippy scenes in that one, considering it's by the same creator of the manga where they got married :P) --ZestyCactus 23:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
I found a hint to support the fact that Jessie and James are not in a relationship in Abandon Ship, AG032, where Max thinks Jessie and James where, in a disguise, a nice old couple, Jessie answers with nobody ever acquised us from being old. James adds, 'and certainly not a couple.' Danny199 (talk) 10:08, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
This page was substantially overhauled in 2009, since when it has grown organically, free from restraint. However, it is now almost unusable as a wiki page and I have received more than one request on the BMGf Rocketshipping thread for links to "another" page which might more concisely go through shipping hints.
I know it is challenging because there is a huge volume of valid content, but I think we could make the page more reader-friendly simply by restructuring.
- 1 History
- 2 Sects
- 3 Evidence
- 3.1 Anime evidence
- 3.1.1 Original Series
- 3.1.2 Advanced Generation
- 3.1.3 Diamond and Pearl
- 3.1.4 Best Wishes
- 3.1.5 X&Y
- 3.1.6 Sun and Moon
- 3.1.7 Movies
- 3.2 Manga
- 3.3 Radio
- 3.4 Games
- 3.1 Anime evidence
- 4 Similarities
- 5 Trivia
- 6 External links
The major change I am suggesting would remove the idea of Jessie vs James vs shared hints, replacing it with a series-based split. I appreciate this may be controversial, but there is such a lot of unnecessary duplication of information with the original demarcation. Bookmarking the sections instead by series would make it easier for fans to find episodes to watch .etc.
Additionally, within each of the series subsections, I would suggest subheadings of "Present in original" and "Present in other dubs", because there is huge variation between the characterisation of Musashi & Kojirou vs Jessie & James which affects their shipping in a major way. I think it is vital to provide that context to fans unfamiliar with this background, who might be using this page.
I also think it is time we remove the link to "AntiRocketShipping support" - no other shipping page has or would tolerate this. Pokemopolis' role in the ship's history is already mentioned at the top of the page.
Each section will need significant internal revamps to make them up-to-date, but I think this restructure (or similar, with consensus agreement) is overdue given the size of the page. --ii kanji 18:05, 3 January 2019 (GMT)
- Last year, I tried to update the page by adding new hints while removing what I felt was not sufficient evidence so I can verify that what ii kanji says is a hundred percent true. The page, in the current format, is difficult to navigate with three anime hint sections filled to the brim with hints from seven different series, making it difficult to find specific episodes with lots of hints that really should be discussed more and many hints relying on different versions of the show whether it be the original Japanese version, the English dub, or the Latin American Spanish dub. It is nothing an editing session wouldn't fix.
- The big thing that should be done, as ii kanji said, is having the anime evidence split into series instead of what hints are given by which character. You may wonder, why should we do this? After all, we don't do this for any of the other ship pages. Well, Jessie and James have been in the series since the beginning. They simply have a lot more content with the now 22 years they’ve been on the show. To give you an idea of how much content is within this page, I put the hints into a document and found that the amount of hints equal 34 pages with three pages (24 hints in total) going to the Jessie hints section, eleven pages (114 hints in total) going to the James hints section, and twenty pages (240 hints in total) going to the Shared Hints section and to remind you, all of this is within three sections. Separating the evidence by series will really make the evidence easier to read.
- The second thing is addressing how Jessie and James’ relationship plays out in different versions. This one’s trickier to pull off but if done right, it would greatly benefit Rocketshippers everywhere and clean up the page. One thing we could do is put a notice before the evidence that talks about how Jessie and James’ relationship differ in different languages. For example, for the Latin American Spanish dub we could say, “In the Latin American Spanish dub, James often calls Jessie 'mamita' or 'querida', or honey. He also tends to reference songs during the motto, some of which could be considered about his relationship with Jessie.” With the differences between series mentioned beforehand, we can cut out a lot of the now superfluous hints that were summarized above which would do more for the page than you'd think. Then when major hints exist in one version of the episode, we could put a bullet point in the hint list where it appears (for example, under Training Daze, we could put "(Insert bullet point here) In the Japanese version, this scene is quite different. In a rare moment of vulnerability, Kojiro and Musashi reveal to each other what's been weakest in their lives until then and vow to try to make their team work despite these hardships." under "Jessie's generosity does not go unnoticed, for James subsequently vows to always do his best so that she can always trust him to be there for her.") These are just suggestions though and if you think of better ways to implement it, we would be happy to accept it.
- It is vital to many Rocketshippers that the Bulbapedia page is accurate, updated, and cleaned up, especially when it's the most up to date and the easiest to find. We understand that a lot of you are busy with other things so we just ask for permission to make these changes. Is that okay? --TRNatalie (talk) 18:35, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Latin American Spanish dub hints need revision
As per this discussion it seems that many of the Latin American Spanish hints listed are not objectively-speaking evidence towards a romantic relationship between Jessie and James. In the spirit of not wilfully misinforming readers, is there any objection to contributors making a reasonable revision to these? I ask because a previous attempted edit was retracted by SnorlaxMonster in January 2018. --ii kanji 19:34, 10 January 2019 (GMT)