Talk:Froslass (Pokémon)

Does anyone have an idea what Yukinemoko's supposed to be or what the menoko part of her name comes from?--Pokencyclopedia 00:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

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• Shedinja
• What move?
• Trivia section
• Ability?
• Edit request
• HG/SS Dex Entry
• Froslass and her young
• Trivia Addition
• GTS in the Trivia
• The Froslass that gifts you the Dawn Stone in Z-A

Contents

Shedinja

Why do we need a disclaimer? What I said was true. Nincada doesn't evolve into Shedinja, at all. Shedinja is basically the dead skin that falls off of Nincada after evolving into Ninjask. "...if Shedinja's appearance in the party counts as an evolution" It doesn't! There is no "if". The Nincada you had is now a Ninjask! With Snorunt it actually morphs into Froslass. Nincada goes from Bug/Ground to Bug/Flying, not Bug/Ghost so therfore it did not turn into a Ghost-type. Shedinja is a completely different Pokémon.

If you want to mention Shedinja fine but state it differently than the way you did. "Froslass and Shedinja are the only two Ghost-types that evolve from a Pokémon that wasn't a Ghost-type" is an untrue statement. For the record, my friend who is visiting me right now also agrees with me. --☆ケンジガール 03:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Remember the TCG, it considers Shedinja an evolution playable on top of Nincada, but allows it to be played as basic when Nincada evolves into Ninjask. While true, Shedinja doesn't evolve from Nincada directly, it can be bred to create one with Ditto. And it's either we consider it an evolution or it's some separate piece of crap like Phione. TTEchidna 03:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

While the Nincada doesn't TURN INTO Shedinja, the Shedinja was part of Nincada the whole time. When Nincada evolves, the Shedinja has to separate from Nincada, forever, at least in the wild, or if it's owned by a trainer that doesn't want it, but Shedinja, having a Pokemon's DNA and thus, having that Poke-energy thing that I guess allows them to go into Pokeballs and stuff, can be used in battle. See, Shedinja's not this dead by-product of Ninjask. (Well, it is, sorta, but that's not the point.) Since Shedinja gets Nincada's movepool, it could be said that Nincada splits into two different Pokemon. It's just that Ninjask gets the brain and the heart and stuff. TorchicBlaziken 15:32, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Shedinja is nincada's shedded shell.--Davidaipom 15:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

What move?

What move is this? _*tc26_* 11:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Wake-up Slap perhaps. Maybe Return/Frustration. Did its trainer order it to attack?

13375P34K 1:00:09 UTC

Trivia section

"In Platinum, its Pokédex entry states its breath is -58 degrees, as opposed to the -60 degrees stated in its Diamond and Pearl entries." I am removing this bit of useless trivia, as if you read the actual Pokedex descriptions you'll see that it actually says "It freezes foes with an icy breath nearly -60 degrees F", not "It freezes foes with an icy breath -60 degrees F", which is a very large difference maker. Its Platinum description is entirely correct by saying -58F as it is simply giving a more specific number to a previous entry. Crenel 01:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Ability?

It says it can only have Snow Cloak, but I was screwed over by Candice's Froslass with Levitate(tried to use Lucario). Is this a hack or is it wrong on the page?- unsigned comment from SilverMetelthatisGold (talk • contribs)

I checked both Serebii and Marriland's Pokédex and they both say the only ability that a Froslass can have is Snow Cloak. -MasterKenobi 02:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

You sure it wasn't hailing? Snow Cloak can make Earthquake miss. TTEchidna 04:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I just checked. I managed to hit Candice's Froslass with Earthquake. It has to say "Froslass makes Ground attacks with Levitate!". If it doesn't hit and doesn't say that, then you just missed. --ケンジのガール 07:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

It did say Earthquake missed with Levitate, cause I canceled out the Hail with T-Tar's Sand Stream. Maybe a glitch?- unsigned comment from SilverMetelthatisGold (talk • contribs)

Edit request

Switch that awful low-res pixel garbage in the infobox with a:File:Reg-Froslass.png. Thx. UltimateSephiroth ^{(about me · chat · edits)} 09:23, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Guys, files should be at ###NAME.png. 478Frosslass.png. Make sure to follow these rules, especially come Gen V when we get new Pokémon (NAME.png should be only as a temporary). TTEchidna 10:18, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

HG/SS Dex Entry

Its HG/SS dex entry is wrong in this article; in the games themselves, the period at the end is actually missing. It's probably a typo, but the entry on this page is still incorrect. I would change it myself, but I don't want to be accused of vandalism or whatever. Also, is this notable enough to go in the Trivia?--Celebi96 14:11, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Uh, so I just went to change it since no one objected, but then I checked Serebii just to be sure. On Froslass's page on Serebii, there is a period on the end of its HeartGold dex entry, but not on the end of its SoulSilver dex entry. This is consistent with my earlier observation, since I have SoulSilver. Should it be listed as having two separate dex entries for HG/SS, then? Also, it this notable trivia-wise now?--Celebi96 22:55, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, I just added a tooltip noting that the period is missing in SoulSilver. If the Pokédex entries are otherwise the same, I think that's the best way to indicate the difference between the two, rather than adding a whole new section that only has the one (very minor) difference. --Phantom♫Junkie 23:16, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Froslass and her young

Does anyone know the source for caring for her young part in the Behavior section? Toymoo (talk) 22:17, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Trivia Addition

I realized that if Froslass had the ability levitate, it would be immune to all four OHKO moves.Should that be included? - unsigned comment from Geekl0rd (talk • contribs)

It doesn't have levitate, so that doesn't really matter. --Celadonkey 14:50, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

GTS in the Trivia

This one specifically: "Due to the censor that prevents Pokémon with offensive nicknames being traded on the GTS, an English language Froslass cannot be traded on the GTS without a nickname in Pokémon Black and White."

The Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection service was shut down in 2014, thus Online support has ceased for Gen 4 and 5 games. Should this be changed to past tense? LordHeinz (talk) 22:13, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Done. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 23:28, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

The Froslass that gifts you the Dawn Stone in Z-A

The game heavily implies that the Rogue Mega Evolved Froslass... is that very same Froslass who later guides you to a Dawn Stone. Rogue Mega Evolution is implied to be very taxing to those who it affects- Froslass is all but stated to die after she guides you to the Dawn Stone. Dawn Stones are used to evolve a female Snorunt into Froslass, and it just so happens to be at the spot where she was fought. The Froslass in question is stated after you acquire the stone to have "disappeared in a flash of light" which in just about every culture implies a passing to the afterlife, which makes this final act of charity particularly poignant, as she is too weak to join you but has enough strength to guide the player to a Dawn Stone to acquire their own Froslass. Though the Mega Dimension DLC backs off from the unfortunate implications of this (You can catch every subject of Rogue Mega Evolution encountered there in contrast to the base game, where only Absol and Mawile, the latter through implication due to the spot where it's found and available to be caught, are explicitly shown to have survived the process), they certainly haven't brought back Froslass- Where would be the best place to note on this page that this particular Froslass is one of the more clear examples of death in the Pokemon world? Corrosive Cricket (talk) 22:25, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

If the implication was really that Froslass died then we should add it to death in the Pokémon world. I'm not convinced that Froslass actually died though. These are Pokémon we're talking about, which are capable of all sorts of supernatural acts - "disappeared in a flash of light" could mean "used Flash to blind you and then left". Storm Aurora (talk) 15:08, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Per Storm. I think the implication of "disappearing = death" is the keystone here and everything else seems like flowery ex post facto justification from there. "Disappear" is a word commonly used for Pokémon exiting a scene, and rarely if ever does it imply death in the process. In fact, it wouldn't even be the first time that a Froslass in particular is mentioned to mysteriously disappear from a human's sight, as there's a request in Legends: Arceus that deals with the exact same subject (and that particular Froslass is definitely implied not to have died). Driftin Soul (talk) 16:25, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Like I already noted to Storm Aurora, you should probably remember that the game text also contains the line directly after her disappearance that the player character "can't feel their presence anymore." Given how Nintendo tends to be vague about death and the implications around it (For example, Matsuda was very dodgy around Pokemon being consumed for their meat and most entries these days imply ethical harvesting, like Veluza's flesh) it's actually refreshing here that they've cut out a lot of the ambiguity. Again- as noted to Storm Aurora, the name of the side mission is Froslass's Unfinished Business which, conbined with the follow-up message that the player character can't feel Froslass's presence after the disappearance, makes it pretty clear that Froslass has "passed on."

The Froslass you're talking about in Arceus obviously didn't become a Rogue Mega and I don't remember the circumstances around that mission, could you elaborate? Corrosive Cricket (talk) 20:38, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Ignoring the meme about Flash (A move not even in Z-A or any game past gen 8, minus the DP remakes), you should probably remember that the game text also contains the line directly after her disappearance that the player character "can't feel their presence anymore." I've already noted that Mega Dimension explicitly allows for the survival of Rogue Evolution victims- but in the base game, there's only two confirmed survivors (Mawile is a maybe, but the coincidence that you fight it in the same spot where it became a Rogue Mega and the fact that it refuses to get caught by anybody but you, the one who defeated it, makes for a strong case), all the others simply disappear and we know how Nintendo tiptoes around the concept of death most of the time. I will add Froslass's case there.

Also of note- the side mission that this Froslass appears in after you defeat the Rogue Mega Froslass is titled Froslass's Unfinished Business. Ghosts are commonly described across many cultures in the world as having unfinished business as preventing them from passing on. This would create a double entendre of Froslass's Ghost-typing and her actually passing on once you take the Dawn Stone. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 20:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

I don't think it's conducive to discussion to frame Storm's legitimate counterpoint as a "glib joke" or "meme". If you take such severe issue with the example of Flash specifically, you can substitute something like Confuse Ray if you wish (Froslass' level up move, and present in Legends Z-A).

Not "feeling a presence" doesn't have to mean anything more than that Froslass has disappeared from the vicinity, and as you yourself point out "unfinished business" could simply be a nod to Froslass' ghost typing. Maybe Froslass simply wants or feels obligated to thank the player!

Overall, I'm quite surprised this is viewed as such an unambiguous case of death to you. The series hardly shies away from mentioning the death of Pokémon when needed. I also think that the fact that you refer to Mawile and Absol as "confirmed survivors" of Rogue Mega Evolution is odd... surely the aim in this situation should be to identify confirmed deaths caused by Rogue Mega Evolution, especially when you've noted that every single Rogue Mega in Mega Dimension seems to be a 'confirmed survivor' also? Characters almost exclusively refer to "helping" or "saving" Rogue Mega-Evolved Pokémon from pain (Naveen also somewhat casually refers to the pain as "no picnic" for the Pokémon), which seem odd turns of phrase if there's meant to be an implication that some of them are liable or likely to die.

To be clear, I'm not against whatever personal interpretation you would like to draw from this situation. I just don't think the textual evidence is nearly as compelling as it's being made out, and we don't want to be drawing and presenting conclusions that have the potential to misinform our readers. If this is going to remain on the Death in the Pokémon world article, at minimum I would expect us to be significantly better about signaling uncertainty and cutting out any deeper speculation. Driftin Soul (talk) 21:22, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

I agree with Driftin Soul and Storm Aurora. I can see why some people might draw the conclusion that the Froslass died, but in my opinion it's not clear-cut enough, requiring a lot of explanation and qualification as to why it might be true, when it's much more easily explained away as being ambiguous in its language and intent. So much so that it's probably not noteworthy in the article. Thespeon (talk) 22:26, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Sure, you could easily argue the ambiguity is the point, but there just isn't ambiguity here that the roundabout way that Froslass is thanking you. Absol joins you immediately after the "tutorial fight" Rogue Mega raid out of what's clearly gratitude, Mawile allows you to catch them after gaining an "uncatchable" reputation (heavily implying that they were waiting for you to come back), and Hawlucha fights you fair and square in a rematch which is more or less a fighting-type's apology. Froslass would have clearly joined you or at least thanked you in another manner if she wasn't on her last (metaphorical) legs. The nature of the gift- a Dawn Stone that's needed to evolve a female Snorunt into Froslass- is literally Froslass giving you the means to anoint her successor; the name of the side mission (Froslass's Unfinished Business) also has a distinctive tone of finality to it, something which strips away even more ambiguity. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 05:51, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Hmmm? I didn't take a "severe" issue to it, I even made sure to edit everything after reconsidering the text, but it appears the email notification only showed you the initial message. Anyways, the use of Flash seemed like a handwave at best that Storm Aurora was using. Anyways:

> you can substitute something like Confuse Ray

That doesn't even make any sense, you're not described as getting flashbanged after Froslass makes her exit.

> Not "feeling a presence" doesn't have to mean anything more than that Froslass has disappeared from the vicinity, and as you yourself point out "unfinished business" could simply be a nod to Froslass' ghost typing. Maybe Froslass simply wants or feels obligated to thank the player!

> Overall, I'm quite surprised this is viewed as such an unambiguous case of death to you

See, but that's the thing- Absol, Mawile (Mawile is implied though the fight location being the Mega Mawile encounter spot and the "uncatchable" reputation that folds the moment you show up) show their obligation to thank you by joining you- Froslass goes the roundabout way of leading you to the Dawn Stone (which evolves female Snorunts into Froslass) instead. Your interpretation of "unfinished business" could indeed only refer to Froslass trying to thank you, but:

- considering how Froslass vanishes in a stereotypical ascent to heaven while granting you the means to evolve a female Snorunt into a successor Froslass to her, and

- the fact that the quest is named Froslass's Unfinished Business, which has a pretty clear note of finality as a title

...all support a significantly darker conclusion than "here's a Dawn Stone, thanks!"

Also, I forgot about Hawlucha. Hawlucha is confirmed to survive the Rogue Mega Evolution it undergoes, its way of thanking you is challenging you to a fair rematch without the interference of Rogue Mega Evolution.

> I also think that the fact that you refer to Mawile and Absol as "confirmed survivors" of Rogue Mega Evolution is odd... surely the aim in this situation should be to identify confirmed deaths caused by Rogue Mega Evolution, especially when you've noted that every single Rogue Mega in Mega Dimension seems to be a 'confirmed survivor' also?

I've already covered this subject, but to reiterate: The fate of Rogue Mega Evolution victims in the base game outside of Mawile, Hawlucha, and Absol are completely unconfirmed. Mega Dimension does a clear about-face on this ambiguity by having all (including non-raid Rogue Megas such as Golisopod) require catching, which is a clear attempt by Game Freak to clear up the ambiguity of the post-fight fates of the Rogue Mega Evolution victims. Perhaps it wasn't Game Freak's initial intention to make it seem like the Rogue Mega victims suffer to the point of death, though the rather obtuse hints with Froslass makes me doubt that. I do find it a little strange you don't seem aware that Nintendo in general is loathe to explicitly show mature subject matter such as death in their flagship franchises or on their consoles in general, you just have to look at their history of NES/SNES censorship in the west to figure that one out.

> Characters almost exclusively refer to "helping" or "saving" Rogue Mega-Evolved Pokémon from pain (Naveen also somewhat casually refers to the pain as "no picnic" for the Pokémon), which seem odd turns of phrase if there's meant to be an implication that some of them are liable or likely to die.

That... actually supports my stance, though? I'm not sure why you're not associating the pain of the Rogue Mega phenomenon with something dangerous and life-threatening, minus the collateral damage that would occur from uncontrolled rampaging- is it really that much of a stretch to reason that something that painful is too much for some of the victims to handle? The player is actively beating up the Rogue Megas in order to quash the aforementioned collateral damage before it happens, so as the issue is presented it's just an unfortunate outcome that most of the Rogue Mega list in the base game vanish without a trace outside of their Mega Stones. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 05:39, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

I think you're reading into it a bit too much. Mysteriously vanishing after an encounter is typical of Ghost-type Pokémon, as are phrases like "unfinished business", especially since Froslass is already a deceased spirit anyway according to its Pokédex entries (which do seem to conflict a bit with your claim that Pokémon games don't like to bring up death, as does the ending of Legends ZA itself). And I don't understand why you're acting like the DLC allowing the player to catch Rogue Megas is some kind of retcon when it released less than two months after the base game and was clearly in development at the same time. Hewer (talk) 18:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

> Mysteriously vanishing after an encounter is typical of Ghost-type Pokémon, as are phrases like "unfinished business"

Vanishing in a flash of light is typical for Ghost-types? I saw Driftin Soul try to say it could be Confuse Ray as well earlier, I can't take this seriously. Froslass is obviously grateful enough to lead you back to the spot where her Rogue Mega fight was for the Dawn Stone- Every Rogue Mega Evolution victim in the base game (outside of Hawlucha) that doesn't vanish into an uncertain fate is catchable (Mawile built a reputation for being "uncatchable" before you come back to where you fought them the first time) or outright joins you (Absol). Doesn't make sense in comparison for Froslass to be a case of "thanks for freeing me from a very painful state of existence, here's a Dawn Stone, bye."

> I don't understand why you're acting like the DLC allowing the player to catch Rogue Megas is some kind of retcon when it released less than two months after the base game and was clearly in development at the same time.

Incorrect. Mega Dimension is a functional retcon, because the difference between the base game (Where the fate of all Rogue Mega Evolution victims besides Absol, Mawile, Hawlucha, and Froslass are completely up in the air) and Mega Dimension (Where you catch every victim, even non-raid ones like Golisopod like I noted earlier) is night and day. Do you think just because the DLC was developed at the same time the same team was doing both? The tonal shift between the main story (A-Z's attempt at finding redemption for his creations before his impending death) and Mega Dimension (Ansha trying to be a good daughter, even in her mother's absence) is jarring. Unless it's really not jarring and I'm hallucinating the core of both stories somehow? Please point out if I got anything wrong there.

> which do seem to conflict a bit with your claim that Pokémon games don't like to bring up death, as does the ending of Legends ZA itself

Sure, Game Freak has been one of the outliers in Nintendo's studio umbrella when it comes to confronting the subject of death (Lavender Town, Route 10's stones, Cubone, the "joke" Pokedex entry regarding Primeape dying from getting too angry), but it's not like they don't self-censor themselves either. Tapu Fini's location is translated to be named the Ruins of Hope... but once you read the description of the place ("where life ends its journey") you'll immediately know why the Japanese transliterates to Ruins of the Other Side. In Froslass's case I would actually posit that everyone here is trying too hard to suppress the possibility of death- I commend you for acknowledging that death is present, at minimum, in the form of A-Z's approaching mortality that eventually comes for him. As Driftin Soul noted- The Rogue Mega Evolution experience is obviously painful to the point of inducing its victims to uncontrollably rampage, on top of you fighting the victim in order to quash the possibility of collateral damage. Why would that situation not at least create the possibility that the victims end up in danger afterwards, and Game Freak simply chose not to show that side of the aftermath outside of four out of the sixteen base game Rogue Mega Evolution fights?

tl;dr: You say I'm "reading into it a bit too much." I say you're just not seeing the hints. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 19:37, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

or... hear me out... the DLC has the Rogue Megas be catchable because the way the DLC spawns wilds is a lot more inconsistent so it would be more difficult for players to get their hands on the mons with new Mega Evolutions, and the main game doesn't bother with that because the Pokemon are all readily available. Absol is force caught to make sure you have a Mega Evolution to use in the battle against your rival. The others that return are cute side quests, of which Froslass isn't even the only one you can't catch, as you yourself brush briefly over ... Hawlucha.

I think if Rogue Mega Evolution was intended to tax Pokemon to a point of near-death, they would have been more explicit with it. It's not as if Z-A is shying away from death otherwise, considering AZ does straight up die, the backstory of the Ultimate Weapon, AZ, and Floette, and the implication that Zygarde/the Ultimate Weapon resurrected Lysandre after he was crushed to death at the end of XY. The protagonists would absolutely comment on the state of Absol, Hawlucha, ... etc. post-Rogue Mega Evolution if there were lasting effects. The clear implication is that it's only taxing while they're actively undergoing the effects, just like with various other similar states in other media (R in Detective Pikachu, Laquium in Horizons, etc.)

That doesn't mean Froslass can't be interpreted to have died here (though that does beg the question of ... is she not already a ghost? what are ghost-type Pokemon, exactly). The side quest certainly plays into the spooky aspects of Froslass as a mon, and it's a very common trope to be led to a gift by the ghost of someone you previously helped. But I don't think the evidence is as definitive as you think it is (the fact that there are people debating with you on it should be evidence of that enough), and I don't think it's a noteworthy enough interpretation when, as you yourself mention, Pokemon has plenty of more explicit references to death, including in this very game. A ghost behaving in a spooky manner that probably means it's dead? Kind of par for the course. Nutter Butter (talk) 20:24, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

> the DLC has the Rogue Megas be catchable because the way the DLC spawns wilds is a lot more inconsistent

I don't follow this argument, because outside of Steelix, the entire Mega Evolution roster is catchable even without the boss fights segueing into the free captures, for example I caught a Wimpod and evolved it knowing that Golisopodite was a thing but got bamboozled when I realized that the Rogue Mega Golisopod was catchable post-fight. Hell, Scizor is catchable in a dimensional wild zone and we all know that Scizor's a trade evolution, it's really just Steelix that's got the question mark over its head if you didn't catch the alpha in MQ 38. Yes it's more inconsistent but to hunt for pre-evolutions/the actual specimens through the dimensional wild zone spawn system- but (A) it's not close to being impossible, and (B) it doesn't explain the clear tonal shift between the base game and the DLC.

> Absol is force caught to make sure you have a Mega Evolution to use in the battle against your rival. The others that return are cute side quests, of which Froslass isn't even the only one you can't catch, as you yourself brush briefly over ... Hawlucha.

Huh? Assuming you're not trolling yourself, you still have your starter, all three of which gained Megas, to use against Urbain/Taunie. Hawlucha asks for a "fair" rematch that doesn't involve them getting Mega Evolved against its will, Mawile's "uncatchable" rep drops the moment you show up, it's pretty clear they're trying to thank the player for bailing them out. Froslass is more aligned with Absol/Mawile than Hawlucha, when you remember what exactly a Dawn Stone is and does.

> The protagonists would absolutely comment on the state of Absol, Hawlucha, ... etc. post-Rogue Mega Evolution if there were lasting effects

Who's to say there would be commentary about lingering side effects if Z-A wasn't rated E10+? Someone else has already recalled that characters including but not limited to Naveen have commented on how agonizing the experience is. In fact:

> The clear implication is that it's only taxing while they're actively undergoing the effects

Sure, that's the clear, 100% uncontestable implication- But I'm stating that the experience + the fight that comes with you trying to keep them from causing collateral damage in a populated city would easily drive a subject to death's door, especially if the subject in question (Froslass) has a reputation of being fragile anyways.

> The side quest certainly plays into the spooky aspects of Froslass as a mon, and it's a very common trope to be led to a gift by the ghost of someone you previously helped. But I don't think the evidence is as definitive as you think it is (the fact that there are people debating with you on it should be evidence of that enough),

What spookiness, exactly? Froslass is based off a yuki-onna of the Japanese yokai pantheon. The situation, a city outside of winter, doesn't fit its legend. Yes it's a common trope for a benevolent ghost to lead you to a gift, but when in this case the gift is Froslass allowing you to evolve a female Snorunt to be her substitute- This is the part that the people arguing against me overlook, because it's not just the act of giving you the Dawn Stone, it's what the Dawn Stone represents. Yeah the whole "ghosts are already dead you nerd" thing applies... But Froslass vanishing in a flash of light- which is pretty clearly associated with an ascension to heaven- in a way makes more sense, because Froslass is "passing on." Corrosive Cricket (talk) 21:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Pretty sure the point of bringing up Flash and Confuse Ray was less to figure out the exact move used and more to point out that there are other ways a Pokémon could disappear besides dying. Pokémon are fantastical creatures with magical powers, and Ghost-type Pokémon in particular are often portrayed as mysterious and creepy, so why should vanishing in a flash of light be where the line is drawn? And why does it "not make sense" for Froslass to thank the player for saving it and leave unless it died in the process? Is there really no possible explanation for Froslass not letting the player catch it (just like most Rogue Megas) other than because it died? Is that even something that needs an explanation anyway?
"Do you think just because the DLC was developed at the same time the same team was doing both?" - Every individual under "Story Team" in the Mega Dimension credits was also credited under that role in the base game credits. I don't find the tonal differences between the stories to be any more extreme than the base game story going from "prove you're Canari's biggest fan" to "attend a funeral".
I'm all for seeing hints when they're actually there but this comes across as you trying to push your headcanon as the true interpretation of an event in the game that amounts to "Ghost-type Pokémon does something mysterious". Nothing in the side quest even alludes to death other than the name "unfinished business" (again, because it's a Ghost-type). I doubt it's even supposed to have a concrete explanation beyond another "wow, aren't Pokémon mysterious" moment. Hewer (talk) 20:49, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

> so why should vanishing in a flash of light be where the line is drawn?

Ghosts vanish in many, many forms of fiction and legends. Ghosts vanishing in a flash of light after accomplishing something important (in this case leading you to a Dawn Stone) is also a thing, and said thing is strongly associated with a passing on into the afterlife. In this case, the something in question is the item used to evolve a female Snorunt into Froslass, as if giving you the means to find her successor- I'm genuinely unsure if you don't see the connection or you simply have never exposed to it.

> Is there really no possible explanation for Froslass not letting the player catch it (just like most Rogue Megas) other than because it died?

Refer to the Dawn Stone

> Every individual under "Story Team" in the Mega Dimension credits was also credited under that role in the base game credits. I don't find the tonal differences between the stories to be any more extreme than the base game story going from "prove you're Canari's biggest fan" to "attend a funeral"

Your point about the story team personnel being the same as listed in the credits (Which I did forget to look at in detail) doesn't actually counter my question about whether or not I missed anything about the base game's story arc versus Mega Dimension. If anything, the whole deal with Canari was a playtime-producing detour associated with Royale advancement, the entire dynamic between Canari and Naveen is consistently played for laughs and maybe a roundabout jab at parasociality.

> I'm all for seeing hints when they're actually there but this comes across as you trying to push your headcanon

People here (including you) have consistently chosen to handwave the nature of what Froslass is giving the player character and stopping any thought about the overall sidequest right then and there, nevermind that Froslass would clearly join if there wasn't a complication (As in, she's close to vanishing forever).

> I doubt it's even supposed to have a concrete explanation beyond another "wow, aren't Pokémon mysterious" moment.

The entire game is awash in that vibe, especially because battling is much more personal than the usual offerings from Game Freak. It's when that vibe breaks for moments like the one I'm discussing that you can apply Occam's Razor on what's just happened. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 22:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

I don't think the Dawn Stone is the deciding proof you seem to believe it is. There's no reason it has to be any deeper than the player getting a Dawn Stone as the reward for a Froslass sidequest because it's an item associated with Froslass, in the same vein as a lot of other sidequest rewards (for instance, "Honedge's Cutting Edge" gives you a Dusk Stone, and "Finding a Place for Heliolisk" gives you a Sun Stone). The whole "giving you the means to find her successor" idea is not remotely alluded to in the game, it's pure headcanon that you've added in to explain something that I don't really think has or needs an explanation.
I only brought up the credits to counter your claim that the DLC was developed by a different team than the base game. "the entire dynamic between Canari and Naveen is consistently played for laughs" - yeah, that's what I was getting at, that a lot of elements of the story are played for laughs, I just picked Canari for an example. My point being that I don't think there was this big tonal shift between the base game story and the DLC story as you were claiming. Either way though, this is getting pretty off-topic.
"Froslass would clearly join if there wasn't a complication" - why? Most of the Rogue Megas don't. Many other Pokémon that appear in side quests don't. And again, it makes sense to not be able to fully explain the behaviour of a spooky mysterious Ghost-type Pokémon in a spooky mysterious encounter. Hewer (talk) 01:20, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

> There's no reason it has to be any deeper than the player getting a Dawn Stone as the reward for a Froslass sidequest because it's an item associated with Froslass, in the same vein as a lot of other sidequest rewards (for instance, "Honedge's Cutting Edge" gives you a Dusk Stone, and "Finding a Place for Heliolisk" gives you a Sun Stone)

Hmmm? How does that relate? That's their trainers happily passing you the stones in question, they're not doing anything out of a sense of obligation besides "hey good job." You just have to look at the four survivors of Rogue Mega Evolution in the base game (Three and a half, really)- All of them want to chip into your campaign, Hawlucha being the most deviant from this general sentiment, though Hawlucha's really just seeking a fair rematch when they're not supercharged to the point of psychosis. Is it genuinely too much of a stretch for you to consider that Froslass would help you if she could, but she can't, so she lets you evolve a Snorunt to take her place?

> The whole "giving you the means to find her successor" idea is not remotely alluded to in the game, it's pure headcanon that you've added in to explain something that I don't really think has or needs an explanation.

Incorrect. The situation is very clear here- All four victims seen post-Rogue Mega Evolution are very clearly trying to help you out or at least (in Hawlucha's case) setting things in a clean slate. Froslass can't join you (we are debating the reason why here) so she provides the means of evolving a Froslass as her way of making up for her inability. I don't understand why you keep harping on my supposed "headcanon" when this is literally how the sidequest plays out.

> I only brought up the credits to counter your claim that the DLC was developed by a different team than the base game...

> My point being that I don't think there was this big tonal shift between the base game story and the DLC story as you were claiming

I mean, I acknowledged it, but you still need to acknowledge that the theme of the base game and Mega Dimension are sharply opposed. I said it before- Figuring out and and rectifying an old man's mistakes (A-Z's mistakes over his three thousand years) versus figuring out a young girl's uncertainty (on Ansha's part) of how to cope with her parent's absence is a pretty huge and obviously intentional rift. It should be noted that Ansha's father is literally never mentioned for one reason or another, so Diantha's absence gets even more acute in that regard, but that's drifting away from the point- Just because there was continuity with regards to personnel doesn't mean there wasn't a clear thematic reversal in terms of how Mega Dimension's story is presented.

> "Froslass would clearly join if there wasn't a complication" - why? Most of the Rogue Megas don't.

Most Rogue Megas vanish into an uncertain fate, which I have repeatedly noted.

> And again, it makes sense to not be able to fully explain the behaviour of a spooky mysterious Ghost-type Pokémon in a spooky mysterious encounter

And again, vanishing in a flash of light, which is not associated with Ghost-types at all- After bequeathing a gift- is simultaneously invoking two "ghost is leaving permanently now" tropes. If anything, you and everyone else seems to be ignoring the fact that Ghost-types in general are the concept of things unresolved (be it conflicts, desires, or in this case obligations) codified as a Pokemon type. What do you think happens when a Ghost-type resolves what was keeping it here? Corrosive Cricket (talk) 06:43, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

My point with bringing up other sidequests was that the fact it's a Dawn Stone doesn't have to be any more significant than that Dusk Stone or that Sun Stone. I also don't know why you keep comparing Froslass to the other "survivors of Rogue Mega Evolution" as though it's an outlier in some big group. There's only four (even that is open to interpretation), and even then you keep having to make exceptions for one of those not fitting your argument.
You responded to me saying your theory isn't supported in the game by just...stating your theory again. What?
"Most Rogue Megas vanish into an uncertain fate" - Indeed. They don't join the player (much like Froslass), which is the point I was making. Unless you think all of them died too? Despite the fact the ones that do later return vanish in the exact same way as the ones that don't?
"Is it genuinely too much of a stretch for you to consider that Froslass would help you if she could, but she can't, so she lets you evolve a Snorunt to take her place?" - No, it's not too much of a stretch for me to consider. But it is far too much of a stretch to be stated factually on Bulbapedia, which is what we're debating here. It's a theory that fits what happens in the game but isn't actually suggested or alluded to by the game itself and isn't the only (or even the simplest) explanation for what happens. Hewer (talk) 10:33, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

I went back and watched a video of someone doing the sidequest to remind myself exactly how it went down, and the first thing I noticed is that there's a flash of light when Froslass appears-the exact same effect that happens when it disappears. It can't be an "ascending to the afterlife" effect if it happens when Froslass appears, too. The flash of light is also not acknowledged in the dialogue, which means there might not be an actual flash of light in-universe at all - the light may be just a non-diegetic effect for the player's benefit, like the fade to black that occurs when the player enters into a cutscene. This would seem to indicate that Froslass's fate is vague and uncertain, just like all the other Rogue Megas that the player calms and then never encounters again. Storm Aurora (talk) 18:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

Per your response, I went to watch the same thing to make sure, and you are correct. I also went to look up side mission 118 (Goodbye Gengar) to see if the flash of light was used when the random Ghost-types pop up in the search for the eponymous Gengar- it was also used there.

However, I couldn't find anything comparable in terms of another Ghost-type vanishing using that same transition effect. I'll readily admit that the "flash for appearance" effect is used very commonly in Z-A (Such as for when Zygarde pulls you to the rooftop where Absol is about to undergo Rogue Mega Evolution), but Froslass- unless someone can correct me- is the only example of that effect being used for a Ghost-type vanishing. I've noted elsewhere that ghosts in the Pokemon world are consistently shown vanishing into mist, darkness, or even through solid objects; in comparison vanishing in a flash of light is distinctly unique, even if the game itself didn't note it, as I mistakenly remembered. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 20:05, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

> and even then you keep having to make exceptions for one of those not fitting your argument.

Hawlucha's not even a true outlier though. You just need to read back through what I've already wrote to figure out why.

> You responded to me saying your theory isn't supported in the game by just...stating your theory again

Because you are not properly processing what I am saying. What exactly would you like elaboration on?

> They don't join the player (much like Froslass), which is the point I was making. Unless you think all of them died too? Despite the fact the ones that do later return vanish in the exact same way as the ones that don't?

Are you saying that them dying is an impossibility? "The ones that do return later" yes, all four of the ones who return later, one of whom who literally ascends to the afterlife? Out of the sixteen in the base game, that's a terrible rate of survival.

> But it is far too much of a stretch to be stated factually on Bulbapedia, which is what we're debating here.

By that logic, the vast majority of trivia sections on individual species pages should be purged because they're relying on theorization that didn't come from our Lord and Savior Game Freak, even if they're completely plausible, because you've set the bar here at factual.

> It's a theory that fits what happens in the game but isn't actually suggested or alluded to by the game itself and isn't the only (or even the simplest) explanation for what happens.

...Hmmm? How is "ghost vanishing in a flash of light after guiding you to a precious item" not a clear suggestion/allusion? I see that you didn't acknowledge what I said about how that particular moment is a clear double trope invocation of the same concept (The ghost is passing on), could you tell me of another and simpler explanation that isn't the "she went somewhere else" line? It honestly just sounds like the surface-level interpretation of someone who wanted to hit up the next sidequest ASAP. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 18:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC)

"Are you saying that them dying is an impossibility?" - No, much like how I never said Froslass dying is an impossibility. But it's not something that's actually suggested by the game (the game does suggest that the process is painful but that doesn't mean fatal, and many Mega Evolutions have dex entries about how much pain they're in that I don't think are meant to imply they're dying). The point I was making was that it doesn't make sense to act like Froslass is an outlier as you had previously been doing. You also can't use "one of whom literally ascends to the afterlife" as an argument when that's the very conclusion we're debating (and maybe it's just me but I don't find the fact they chose to use a generic flash of light effect used throughout the game to represent Froslass disappearing as being proof of an ascension to heaven).
Don't put words in my mouth about "our Lord and Savior Game Freak", please. I'm less likely to take your arguments seriously if you deliberately misrepresent mine. All I've argued is that Bulbapedia should not state that a sidequest in which a mysterious Froslass guides you to an item and leaves in a generic flash of light effect with no further elaboration was actually clearly dying and ascending to the afterlife. That doesn't have any relevance to trivia sections speculating on what a Pokémon's inspiration could be (as I assume you're referring to here).
We seem to have very different definitions of the word "clear" (the fact that you're the only person in this discussion who interpreted the sidequest in this way proves that it's far less unambiguous than you're making it out to be). The simpler explanation of the sidequest is as follows: Froslass, a mysterious Ghost-type, guides you to a Dawn Stone and then vanishes mysteriously.
Anyway, we should probably agree to disagree on this, seeing as this argument is starting to go in circles. Hewer (talk) 13:22, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

> But it's not something that's actually suggested by the game (the game does suggest that the process is painful but that doesn't mean fatal, and many Mega Evolutions have dex entries about how much pain they're in that I don't think are meant to imply they're dying

That's only if you buy into Mega Dimension's retcon of all Rogue Megas surviving relatively unscathed post hoc. Every example in the base game has been at least willing to thank you, in their own way (Hawlucha's rematch, again, is meant to be a fair fight without them being a superpowered psycho), the twelve others simply... vanish from the game. But I suppose it's not impossible that they could be alive, however unlikely context makes that the default option, because the alternative is the game not being E-rated anymore.

> You also can't use "one of whom literally ascends to the afterlife" as an argument when that's the very conclusion we're debating (and maybe it's just me but I don't find the fact they chose to use a generic flash of light effect used throughout the game to represent Froslass disappearing as being proof of an ascension to heaven).

The generic flash of light is not the only thing that supports the conclusion. Did you forget the "benevolent spirit leads person to a precious item and then peacefully passes on" trope in play here? Also note that the generic flash, no matter how generic it is, is also in complete opposition to how ghosts are shown as vanishing across all media- Ghosts vanish either suddenly (Giratina using Shadow Force is the most prominent example), melt into shadows, or fade into mist, they never do so while accompanied by light. The "generic" argument loses a lot of its potency when you realize how out-of-character it is for a ghost in this franchise to be associated with it at all.

> Don't put words in my mouth about "our Lord and Savior Game Freak", please. I'm less likely to take your arguments seriously if you deliberately misrepresent mine

You've never taken my arguments seriously, you've just handwaved them as "headcanon" while casually cherrypicking whatever fits your narrative. Also, I didn't put words in your mouth, stop being defensive about me going down the path of the logical standard of factual that you yourself proposed.

> All I've argued is that Bulbapedia should not state that a sidequest in which a mysterious Froslass guides you to an item and leaves in a generic flash of light effect with no further elaboration was actually clearly dying and ascending to the afterlife

> The simpler explanation of the sidequest is as follows: Froslass, a mysterious Ghost-type, guides you to a Dawn Stone and then vanishes mysteriously.

So mysterious that she brings you to the exact spot where you fought a Mega Froslass? You're being laconic and then treating the laconic version of events as the only true interpretation- You've chosen to erase so much context I'm genuinely confounded, it's almost like you're averse to anything other than surface-level interpretation. Why do you feel the need to be so laconic in the first place? Aren't wiki articles meant to be a place for elaboration to begin with?

> We seem to have very different definitions of the word "clear" (the fact that you're the only person in this discussion who interpreted the sidequest in this way proves that it's far less unambiguous than you're making it out to be)

That's where you'd be wrong- I'm not even the first person to think of this, TVtropes has this exact same conclusion in their article tree for Z-A. I discovered it when researching for ways to break through the handwaving I've been subjected to here because people want to speedrun side missions and can't be bothered to take in proper context unless the conclusion gets shouted from the rooftops. So what if other people who have also come to my conclusion aren't actively on Bulbapedia, much less this particular talk page? You came dangerously close to actively engaging in an appeal to the majority, but since this is a debate about interpretation at its core it's not a big deal.

> Anyway, we should probably agree to disagree on this, seeing as this argument is starting to go in circles.

"Go in circles" implies there's at least some motion. I see that there isn't even that, so I'll stop. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 21:29, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

You asked me to provide a simpler explanation for the sidequest. I provided one. Now you're complaining that the explanation is too simple and wondering why I would feel the need to be so laconic. What?
If I never took your arguments seriously, I would've ignored them, rather than spending time writing paragraphs of text in response to them. Ultimately I think this debate just comes down to you providing evidence that you think proves your interpretation and me fundamentally disagreeing that it does, so there isn't much room for us to convince each other of anything. I don't have a problem with inferring things in a story that aren't explicitly stated or theorising to explain things, and TV Tropes might be a more apt place to do that, but I don't think it's Bulbapedia's job to go any further than explaining everything that happens and letting the reader come to whatever conclusion they want. And just to set the record straight, since you seem to find it relevant, I was very much not speedrunning Legends ZA (it took me three months to finish all the sidequests). Hewer (talk) 23:16, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

> You asked me to provide a simpler explanation for the sidequest. I provided one. Now you're complaining that the explanation is too simple and wondering why I would feel the need to be so laconic. What?

I didn't ask for a reduction to the point of laconic absurdity that strips away all nuance, there's a difference. "Mysterious Froslass" is already misleading (within two words!) because immediately you're purging the fact that this is all but explictly confirmed to be the Rogue Mega Froslass you calmed down (via violence, of course).

> If I never took your arguments seriously, I would've ignored them, rather than spending time writing paragraphs of text in response to them

Well thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt just like I did for you.

> I don't think it's Bulbapedia's job to go any further than explaining everything that happens and letting the reader come to whatever conclusion they want

Okay, this is a reasonable take on the situation. To me it's definitely surprising I needed to mention another website to elicit this modicum of reason after a week plus of trying not to deviate from staying good faith with my responses to all these people, but it's still a good response.

> And just to set the record straight, since you seem to find it relevant, I was very much not speedrunning Legends ZA

Huh? It's relevant, but not in the way you're implying. It's pretty clear that even if your opinion of Bulbapedia's mission is already the standard MO, as a whole people were defaulting to face-value interpretations of this subject that boiled down to "if it wasn't stated it didn't happen." That stance has no functional difference to someone who just mashed A throughout the entire game. While you're correct that TVtropes might be more suited for deeper interpretation on specific narrative events and tools employed by Game Freak or any other developer or author, Bulbapedia has plenty of space for that as well and indeed already engages in that kind of thing. Corrosive Cricket (talk) 01:23, 23 March 2026 (UTC)