Talk:Novelty Pokémon

Smeargle

Smeargle is in the OU tier, but the article states that it is not used frequentlyEdge578 17:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

We generally don't base the content of the articles here off of Smogon's tiers. Missingno. Master wants YOU! Join the Order of the Glitch! (my talk page) 18:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

'Cute' Pokémon

should we list some of the pokemon that seem to only be there to attr4act customers (eg. Pichu, Pachirisu etc) --TiTAn 18:16, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

That would be too opinionated. Some people might think that Probopass is cute, and want to add it to this list. —darklordtrom 22:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Why is Pachirisu novelty?

It has decent stats. I don't see why it's in here. --ケンジのガール 03:05, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

It's novelty because its stats are not competitive-reliable. A combination of Speed and Special Defense for an Electric Pokemon is weird. It does not have very high Special Attack, like most Electrics do. Its movepool is extremely shadowed, and its paper-thin regular Defense stat really hurts its butt. Timson622222 03:20, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Those are all good reasons for why Pachirisu isn't viable competitively, but they don't make it a novelty (That's not intended as a slight at Timson622222, since the question did relate to stats). I really think the definition of novelty Pokémon needs to be tightened, before this page ends up listing every non-evolving Pokémon with poor stats. Pachirisu, Volbeat, Luvdisc and Sableye don't have any compelling reasons to be here. Even Farfetch'd is stretching things a bit, to be honest.Bikini Miltank 21:25, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

So in your opinion, what IS a novelty Pokemon? Oh yeah, and Luvdisc is pathetic. Timson622222 00:42, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

In my opinion? A Pokémon designed around a particular novelty or gimmick, in terms of in-game function. Thus you have Ditto, Kecleon, Castform, Unown, Smeargle and so on. Spinda's gimmick is purely cosmetic, but it probably qualifies too. Your opinion on the parameters may vary, but that's my understanding of the term.

Now, it's true that the article as currently written defines a novelty Pokémon as basically any non-evolving weak Pokémon with a shallow movepool. Firstly, this has never been my understanding of the term 'novelty Pokémon', and secondly, if we're going to use that definition then we might as well give up now, since what constitutes a weak Pokémon is highly subjective. Bikini Miltank 11:12, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Most Pokémon on that list have something unique. My opinion is that Sableye (unique type combination, so what? unique abilities, others have them too), Kecleon (again, unique abilities), Volbeat (Signature move is for that), Delibird (see the previous one), Luvdisc (unique held item, so what?) and Pachirisu (NOTHING special) do not belong here. Others have something notable to mention. UltimateSephiroth ^{(about me · chat · edits)} 11:31, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Pachirisu being taken off. The page only puts Pachirisu there because of it being "weak" and the only other reason it gives is that it can learn Super Fang. By that definition Rattata should be on this list. Turtwig A Contributions Talk 11:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, the assumption that these Pokémon are "novelty Pokémon" means that the list may not be able to remain very consistent. After all, Pachirisu could be made infinitely more usable if given a stronger evolution. Ditto (not the Pokémon!) for Farfetch'd and Sableye, although I think Luvdisc's only real role being a source for Heart Scales, it's plenty appropriate on this list. Similarly, Volbeat and Illumise were basically made for the same reason as Plusle and Minun: to showcase the double battle system. --AndyPKMN 11:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

There's a case to be made for Kecleon remaining, at least. Kecleon is built around its unique ability, whereas the same can't be said for Sableye, which only has Stall in 50% of cases. Back in Gen 1, Porygon's possession of two unique moves, one of them (Conversion) being rather quirky, might have put it in contention for this list too. Of course, if we're restricting this list to Pokémon with no evolutions, then it no longer qualifies.

We need to decide which features define novelty Pokémon, and which are features that novelty Pokémon just usually have. The most contentious one, to my mind, is 'weakness'. Does a Pokémon have to be weak in order to qualify as a novelty, or is it just the case that most novelty Pokémon happen to be weak? You can make the case for either. The term 'novelty' does imply something that is entertaining but of limited practical use. On the other hand, Arceus is designed around the Multitype gimmick, and certainly isn't weak.

I'm willing to be persuaded either way on this. I just think that we need some proper criteria for inclusion, be they strict or inclusive, because right now the article is very muddled. Bikini Miltank 14:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Abra

Do you think Abra could be classed as a novelty Pokémon? Although it has useful evolutions, it is not particularly useful unevolved, except for Teleporting. And being able to teleport is a novelty! Taromon 22:00, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Pokemon that evolve arent novelty because they evolve. also, Abra can learn TMs, making it useful. -- MAGNEDETH 22:11, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Illumise

Volbeat is classified here (and to be honest, I agree). However shouldn't that classify Illumise as one as well. I think that they, like Plusle and Minun, where added for the sake of double battles. --Hyurnat4 22:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Legitimacy of this page

Is it just me, or is this page really just a list of of Pokémon that people consider weak? Rather then ones with unusual gimmicks to them. It may need a rewrite to reflect this... PDL 04:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Agree with you on that one. Basically this page considers every small non-legendary Pokémon that can't evolve as novelty. I trained a Pachirisu before, and it's actually stronger than a Pikachu. Yet it's on this page and Pikachu isn't.

I believed novelty Pokémon as ones that have something particularly unique about them (like the learn only one move or have different forms). But now it just means "weak" Pokémon. --ケンジのガール 05:29, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Which ones do you specifically find fault with? I agree, a Pokémon should not be listed here because it is not useful in battle. So let's have some discussion about what doesn't belong. —darklordtrom 07:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Farfetch'd, Sableye, Volbeat, Luvdisc, and Pachirisu. They don't have any real visible gimmicks to them. --ケンジのガール 09:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Luvdisc and Heart Scale? —darklordtrom 09:54, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Combee and Honey? Paras/Parasect and Mushrooms? How come those are not there but Luvdisc is? --ケンジのガール 21:18, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Paras(ect) wasn't created for the sake of giving out mushrooms, it got that "attribute" in GSC, therefore it doesn't count. Though Combee/Vespiqueen might fit in the novelty category, not only for giving out honeys, but also for being created to showcase Gen IV's "feature" of gender-based evolutions. - Pokéman 23:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh. And how do you know that Luvdisc was created solely for giving out Heart Scales? Did you ask its creators? --ケンジのガール 04:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Because a) They're heart-shaped, b) they debuted in the same gen as Heart Scales (unlike Paras which debuted a gen prior to the introduction of mushrooms as items), c) they're the main source of Heart Scales (the other source, the use of the Itemfinder, doesn't provide you with infinite scales), and d) providing with Heart Scales is the only thing they're good at? - Pokéman 04:50, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

That's all a matter of opinion. Unless you have words from the creator that they were only made for getting Heart Scales then it's speculations. And not every Luvdisc holds a Heart Scale. Also, it seems the only reason that Paras isn't a gimmick Pokémon is because it happened to be made BEFORE Gen II. Well who's to say that they didn't make Luvdisc first and then the Heart Scales? So was Bibarel made to give out Oran Berries? --ケンジのガール 04:58, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

"It seems the only reason that Paras isn't a gimmick Pokémon is because it happened to be made BEFORE Gen II."

If you're trying to say that I'm defending it just because I'm biased in favor of Gen I Pokémon, then you're wrong. I have no problem with Ditto or Farfetch'd being here.

"Well who's to say that they didn't make Luvdisc first and then the Heart Scales?"

The same could be said about most Pokémon in the list. Who's to say that they didn't make Smeargle first and then the move Sketch?

"So was Bibarel made to give out Oran Berries?"

Was Bibarel introduced along with Oran Berries? Is Bibarel shaped like a Oran Berry? Is Bibarel the only Pokémon that can be found holding a Oran Berry? Then bad comparison. - Pokéman 05:33, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

"Providing Heart Scales is the only thing they're good at"

That's sounds like a biased statement. Unlike with Smeargle, they actually do more than just hold Heart Scales. They are compatible with many TMs and HMs and can learn a variety of different moves by leveling up.

Smeargle is an entirely different story. The only thing it can do is learn Sketch. It's painfully obvious that's its gimmick. It doesn't matter whether the move Sketch was first or not. Sketch is all Smeargle can do. Another difference between Smeargle.

And Luvdisc isn't exactly the main source of Heart Scales anymore. While that was the most effected way to get them in Generation III, You neglected to mention the mass amounts of Heart Scales found in the Underground in Sinnoh. It's a way more effective way of obtaining them. Of course, this doesn't do any good in HGSS, but Luvdisc can't be found at all in those game. --ケンジのガール 06:58, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

its a fanon term, so its definition lies solely on the fans. for example, Pachirisu is useable, but most fans consider them a novelty because they are severely outclassed by other Pokemon that do the same job. -- MAGNEDETH 07:44, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

But there are a lot of fans HERE who are disputing which Pokémon on the list could truly be considered novelty. In fact, everywhere that I've seen such a list the acceptance of its contents has been anything but unanimous. Couldn't the list be revised in accordance with some of these (IMO) well thought-out and logical arguments?

(I too have issues with some of the things on this list. Pachirisu is hardly just a novelty Pokémon, as it is one of the few Pokémon which can have the ability Pickup. And Farfetch'd is the only flying-type which can have False Swipe by normal means.) --AndyPKMN 12:27, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

it refers to competitive battling. using a Pokemon for False Swipe or Pickup is honestly, exactly what "novelty" is. -- MAGNEDETH 22:43, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

3 things, first off Scyther learns False Swipe naturally and is Flying-Type (Yes, i know what you meant XD). Second, why is Ditto on the list? I use him, and none of my friends can beat the whole 'can perfectly turn into your opponent's pokemon' thing, especially if you give it all around items like Wise Glasses or Muscle Band. Third, why is Shuckle here?! Seriously have you ever heard of Power Swap (Might be Power Trick, not sure right now), it gives it an IMMENSE offense... But yes i do agree some pokemon are just gimmicks and are of no real use, but some are just unusual and have a practical yet uncommon use. Please let's not make this a 'big' thing, I simply think that some pokemon are wrongly confined here, but some not so much... Why does Luvdisc even exist still, I thought they died out after the underground came into existence... - Geomexis 00:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Ditto is one of the only Pokémon to learn Transform. Shuckle can get Berry Juice. Luvdisc I don't know. Turtwig A (talk | contribs) 00:34, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Ditto can do a lot of things on the battle, but it cant to any of them well. its so slow it probably wont even survive long enough for it to Transform. if you are beating someone using a Ditto, they better re-evaluate their team, because it really sucks. Shuckle i admit is arguable, not because of Power Trick (which btw makes its defense 10 and leaves it completely open to death) but because it is a tank, which can be useable to some people. Luvdisc is pretty much the definition of novelty. it is outclassed on the battlefield by even some unevolved Pokemon. -- MAGNEDETH 01:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The Point?

I don't see the point of this article. It is not giving information, and has basically become a battleground. Does anyone have a reason for keeping it up? I mean a good reason?