Talk:Super Training

How is the prize list known to be incomplete?

We can't datamine it, so for all we know, the list is 100% complete - unsigned comment from Shadowater (talk • contribs)

It is far from complete. X was not listed to have thunderstone or fire stone on the final mission and can get both. Additionally I just got a PP up from it and the list only has PP Max, since I have yet to get a PP Max I am currently unsure as to whether the list is wrong in saying it's PP Max at all or not. Ctom42 (talk) 02:44, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

List is definitely incomplete, though probably not by much now. I've been going through each balloon and have found a fair number of items that haven't been added yet. I'm uncertain if there are more rewards beyond drinks for attempts that clock below the target time, and I haven't been doing checks for that. TroutMask (talk) 07:50, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

PP Up on Vivillon balloon?

I haven't been able to confirm it yet, but I theorize the Vivillon balloon can sometimes drop a PP Up, as it would then be the offensive counterpart to Probopass' rewards. Has anyone gotten a PP Up from this balloon? TroutMask (talk) 07:47, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Secret Super Training Rewards

All, While I have been a huge fan of Bulbapedia and the information it has provided for many years, I am new to the discussion and creation of Bulbapedia articles. I am not familiar with the protocols of Wiki edits or discussions, but I would like to see more information on this subject. I have been searching the web since the release of Pokemon X and Y and it seems that, despite all other information available, the Super Training and Secret Super Training is among some of the subjects with the least supporting evidence and information.

My main concern, apart from EVs and other obvious results of Super Training, is the rewards of Super Training and Secret Super Training; more specifically, what items are rewarded during Secret Super Training has been of great interest to me.

One of the primary reasons I bring this up is because, like many of you, I have finished the bulk of Pokemon X and Y. However, as I alluded to earlier, I can not seem to find any conclusive data about the rewards of Secret Super Training. I have completed each task more or less dozens times. The focus of my inquiry is this: is the reward for each training session "random?"

I consistently finish training regimens within Target Time. More than that, I am finishing with a full minute to spare above Target Time. With work, I am occasionally still beating some of my earlier records. All of this to no avail: I am not rewarded the more "rare" reward, and half the time I get Soda Pops, even when I beat my High Scores. The Soda Pops are what pushed me over the edge and prompted me to write the discussion (that, and I saw very little in the "Discussion" tab"). If I am kicking butt at the Secret Super Training, but getting Soda Pops (I really just want a couple Evolutionary Stones, like the Dawn Stone) instead, is it better to do poorly early on and increase your High Score by nominal amounts later on?

I realize I pose a number of concerns and questions in this post, and that many of them are unable to be answered now. Let it be known that if there is anything I can do to provide Bulbapedia with more information on this, or any other subject, I would be happy to oblige. I have a blank version of Pokemon Y (my main game is on Pokemon X) and would be happy to do some baseline testing if anyone knows any more information regarding Super Training and Secret Training.

Just to reiterate before I finish, my main concern is "what should I be doing to maximize the chances of getting the more 'rare' item rewards of Secret Super Training?"

Thank you, Thomas - unsigned comment from TDKenyon (talk • contribs)

- The rewards seem to be random. I haven't tested it too much, but better performance seems to only increase the odds of getting a more valuable reward rather than guarantee them. Unfortunately, this means that the player is sometimes rewarded with Soda Pops and Lemonades despite a good performance. That said, the odds seem to be that finishing above target time has a low chance of getting drinks, with Hard Stones/Stardusts/Wings being common and evo stones/PP Up being uncommon or rare. At least, that's my personal experience. I haven't tested this with a large sample pool. I also have barely tested finishing below target time, so I'm not sure if the odds of finding more valuable items diminishes (though every time I've gotten below target has had a drink as a reward).

At any rate, I haven't seen item drop rates posted anywhere, nor have I done testing with a large enough sample size to tell you how to maximize rare item drops. Based on personal experience, the best way to find rare items is to beat the target time. TroutMask (talk) 06:14, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that I'm not convinced that drop rates change by beating the target time by a larger margin. I may be wrong, and the fact that there's different text based on how much you beat the target time by suggests I might be wrong. I just haven't done enough testing to see a measurable difference. TroutMask (talk) 06:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Attack Types

I think there should be a list of Pokémon by attack type and/or a spot on their page, perhaps in the main template, that gives the attack type. --Wynd Fox 10:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Building up stats without Super Training

I've been noticing lately that when the Pokémon that I am leveling up are having their stats raised from the stat build ups causing the green bar to go up and this also seems to include from evolution as well. Right now there is not enough evidence for me to put this in but can anyone work to confirm this. By starting at level 1 and raising them as far as level 50 you'll notice this.

Also yesterday when my Houndoom level uped when the green bar was almost full, it filled the rest of it up allowing me to do Secret Super Training even though I never used it in the regular Super Training courses. -Tyler53841 (talk) 15:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Super Training boosts effort values (officially called "base stats"), which have always been used as a way to make trained Pokémon stronger than wild ones. When you defeat a wild Pokémon, you get stats dependent on the species of that Pokémon. Super Training has not introduced a new mechanic, it has just made a long-time mechanic more accessible for newer players. --SnorlaxMonster 16:08, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Super Training Vs Vitamins

Has there been any documentation or research as to which, if any, is the better route to raise the Stats/EVs?

Because so far Super Training seems to be the superior route, for it lets you go beyond the limits of Vitamins.

I know for a fact my new Mewtwo with a Docile Nature who has not been super trained has 187 speed right out of the starting gate.

1 Carbos (10+ EV each use) will raise it to 188, 2 raises it to 190, 3 to 191, 4 to 194, 5 to 195, 6 to 197, 7 to 198, 8 to 201, 9 to 202 and finally 10 to 204 an I am unable to raise it any further using Carbos.

on the other hand we have the Lv. 1 Speed Up with the Noibat Regimen (4+ EV each) 2 raises it from 187 to 188, 3 to 189, 5 to 190, 6 to 191, 8 to 192, 9 to 193, 10 to 194..then I got a little impatient and started using all the Speed Bag L's I kept winning, but keeping track of how many Evs were being earned. By the time I stopped out of boredom, I got Mewtwo's speed to 205.

I then exited the game for the third time without saving, then I maxed out how many Carbos it could have and was allowed to use a Speed Bag M to further raise its Speed Ev.

So should it be mentioned in the article that Super Training is either better, or at the very least allows the player to raise their Pokémon's EVs further then they could with Vitamins (alone?) ? Yamitora1 (talk) 22:18, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The advantage of Super Training is that it costs no money. However, it takes a considerable investment of time to get the desired EVs for just one Pokémon. Contrast this with Vitamins which, although exorbitantly expensive and subject to the 100-EV limit, allows a trainer to max out the stats of one Pokémon within seconds. --Arima (talk) 01:25, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

I was referring more towards caps in super training. Even when you max out vitamins, you can still train that EV stat until the Super Training application tells you that Pokémon's base stat can't go any higher.

What I want to know is if its better to...

1) To do only Super Training

2) To do some/max out Vitamins then Super Training

I mean does taking vitamins inhibit or speed up the EV training process; are you somehow capping that Pokémon's ability to grow that stat in any way? Could you get that stat to grow more without the Vitamins, or will it grow to the same no matter what? What is the cap, is it the same 255-ev cap the wings have, or is it different?

from what I've seen, it looks like you can max out a single stat and then still train another but once that meter fills up you are done, game over you can't train any other stats.

Another thing I would like to know vs Super Training are the wings. I know the wings have a 255-EV cap. I know it would take an insane amount of dedication, even more so then Super Training or chaining to catch a shinny or just taking your chances to find a shiny without chaining, but could you improve the desired stats more with Wings alone vs super training?

But at the end of the day I am more interested in the pros and cons of Super training, that way we can include that info on the page. - unsigned comment from Yamitora1 (talk • contribs) 05:39, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

The caps on Super Training are 252 in a stat. --It's Funktastic~!_{話してください} 05:44, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Horde EV training is typically used over both vitamins and Super Training anyway, as it is far more efficient. --SnorlaxMonster 06:09, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

So Wings would be the better route, but only by 3 evs. As for Horde EV Training, the Horde Encounter article has no details on this. Does it too have a Cap too, whats the difference between gaining EV increase in horse ev training compared to normal one-on-one training?

heh, well I've bred me a test subject and documented multiple things. Tomorrow I guess I will see for myself with trial and error. Hopefully my method will be as sterile as possible to provide the best results. Yamitora1 (talk) 07:08, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Wings wouldn't be better at all because they take longer to get, and I'm guessing they'll have the same 252 ev limit in Gen VI that everything else has. Never mind that the three evs it would have are actually useless. --It's Funktastic~!_{話してください} 07:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

252 EVs is the cap in general. The method by which you increase the EVs is irrelevant.

Horde EV training is when you encounter a Horde of Pokémon that only give out EVs in one stat, then use a move to take them all out at once. Since the EV-enhancing items give out 4 EVs per Pokémon, and Pokérus doubles the EVs given, you get a total of 50 EVs per battle (for Pokémon which give out 1 EV). It's a fan method though, not an official one, which is why it isn't noted on the Horde Encounter page. I think it may deserve a mention though, as it is such a popular way to do it. --SnorlaxMonster 07:23, 29 December 2013 (UTC)