Talk:Super Training

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How is the prize list known to be incomplete?

We can't datamine it, so for all we know, the list is 100% complete - unsigned comment from Shadowater (talkcontribs)

It is far from complete. X was not listed to have thunderstone or fire stone on the final mission and can get both. Additionally I just got a PP up from it and the list only has PP Max, since I have yet to get a PP Max I am currently unsure as to whether the list is wrong in saying it's PP Max at all or not. Ctom42 (talk) 02:44, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

List is definitely incomplete, though probably not by much now. I've been going through each balloon and have found a fair number of items that haven't been added yet. I'm uncertain if there are more rewards beyond drinks for attempts that clock below the target time, and I haven't been doing checks for that. TroutMask (talk) 07:50, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

PP Up on Vivillon balloon?

I haven't been able to confirm it yet, but I theorize the Vivillon balloon can sometimes drop a PP Up, as it would then be the offensive counterpart to Probopass' rewards. Has anyone gotten a PP Up from this balloon? TroutMask (talk) 07:47, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Secret Super Training Rewards

All, While I have been a huge fan of Bulbapedia and the information it has provided for many years, I am new to the discussion and creation of Bulbapedia articles. I am not familiar with the protocols of Wiki edits or discussions, but I would like to see more information on this subject. I have been searching the web since the release of Pokemon X and Y and it seems that, despite all other information available, the Super Training and Secret Super Training is among some of the subjects with the least supporting evidence and information.

My main concern, apart from EVs and other obvious results of Super Training, is the rewards of Super Training and Secret Super Training; more specifically, what items are rewarded during Secret Super Training has been of great interest to me.

One of the primary reasons I bring this up is because, like many of you, I have finished the bulk of Pokemon X and Y. However, as I alluded to earlier, I can not seem to find any conclusive data about the rewards of Secret Super Training. I have completed each task more or less dozens times. The focus of my inquiry is this: is the reward for each training session "random?"

I consistently finish training regimens within Target Time. More than that, I am finishing with a full minute to spare above Target Time. With work, I am occasionally still beating some of my earlier records. All of this to no avail: I am not rewarded the more "rare" reward, and half the time I get Soda Pops, even when I beat my High Scores. The Soda Pops are what pushed me over the edge and prompted me to write the discussion (that, and I saw very little in the "Discussion" tab"). If I am kicking butt at the Secret Super Training, but getting Soda Pops (I really just want a couple Evolutionary Stones, like the Dawn Stone) instead, is it better to do poorly early on and increase your High Score by nominal amounts later on?

I realize I pose a number of concerns and questions in this post, and that many of them are unable to be answered now. Let it be known that if there is anything I can do to provide Bulbapedia with more information on this, or any other subject, I would be happy to oblige. I have a blank version of Pokemon Y (my main game is on Pokemon X) and would be happy to do some baseline testing if anyone knows any more information regarding Super Training and Secret Training.

Just to reiterate before I finish, my main concern is "what should I be doing to maximize the chances of getting the more 'rare' item rewards of Secret Super Training?"

Thank you, Thomas - unsigned comment from TDKenyon (talkcontribs)

- The rewards seem to be random. I haven't tested it too much, but better performance seems to only increase the odds of getting a more valuable reward rather than guarantee them. Unfortunately, this means that the player is sometimes rewarded with Soda Pops and Lemonades despite a good performance. That said, the odds seem to be that finishing above target time has a low chance of getting drinks, with Hard Stones/Stardusts/Wings being common and evo stones/PP Up being uncommon or rare. At least, that's my personal experience. I haven't tested this with a large sample pool. I also have barely tested finishing below target time, so I'm not sure if the odds of finding more valuable items diminishes (though every time I've gotten below target has had a drink as a reward).

At any rate, I haven't seen item drop rates posted anywhere, nor have I done testing with a large enough sample size to tell you how to maximize rare item drops. Based on personal experience, the best way to find rare items is to beat the target time. TroutMask (talk) 06:14, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that I'm not convinced that drop rates change by beating the target time by a larger margin. I may be wrong, and the fact that there's different text based on how much you beat the target time by suggests I might be wrong. I just haven't done enough testing to see a measurable difference. TroutMask (talk) 06:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I was beating it with between 2:15 and 2:45 left on the clock and it took me about 10 tries to get a Dusk Stone. Now to show those fairy trainers the power of my Aegislash! jimethn 17:19, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Attack Types

I think there should be a list of Pokémon by attack type and/or a spot on their page, perhaps in the main template, that gives the attack type. --Wynd Fox 10:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I concur entirely. If Bulbapedia went through all the trouble to compile so much information about the Pokéathlon when it was only a feature of HeartGold and SoulSilver, I believe Super Training deserves at least as much attention. It would be quite an undertaking, however. To do it properly, I would suggest a list page for each species by shot type, a mention of the species' specific shot types in the main species pages (in the template or perhaps elsewhere on the page), and categories to separate Pokémon by shot type. We'd need an admin's help to change the template if it seems necessary, I think. Help and support for this is appreciated. Superbreeder 16:29, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Of course, I typed all that up before I noticed the "Pokémon articles should mention their species ball type" section below... Superbreeder 16:38, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
I have made the template you guys wanted. I just need someone to create two empty pages for me so that I can edit it (I'm a new user so I am not allowed to create new pages myself). If anyone of you is still here, please help out by creating the "Template:Balltype" and "Template:Balltypeh" pages. - unsigned comment from Samhiuy (talkcontribs)

Building up stats without Super Training

I've been noticing lately that when the Pokémon that I am leveling up are having their stats raised from the stat build ups causing the green bar to go up and this also seems to include from evolution as well. Right now there is not enough evidence for me to put this in but can anyone work to confirm this. By starting at level 1 and raising them as far as level 50 you'll notice this.

Also yesterday when my Houndoom level uped when the green bar was almost full, it filled the rest of it up allowing me to do Secret Super Training even though I never used it in the regular Super Training courses. -Tyler53841 (talk) 15:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Super Training boosts effort values (officially called "base stats"), which have always been used as a way to make trained Pokémon stronger than wild ones. When you defeat a wild Pokémon, you get stats dependent on the species of that Pokémon. Super Training has not introduced a new mechanic, it has just made a long-time mechanic more accessible for newer players. --SnorlaxMonster 16:08, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Super Training Vs Vitamins

Has there been any documentation or research as to which, if any, is the better route to raise the Stats/EVs?

Because so far Super Training seems to be the superior route, for it lets you go beyond the limits of Vitamins.

I know for a fact my new Mewtwo with a Docile Nature who has not been super trained has 187 speed right out of the starting gate.

1 Carbos (10+ EV each use) will raise it to 188, 2 raises it to 190, 3 to 191, 4 to 194, 5 to 195, 6 to 197, 7 to 198, 8 to 201, 9 to 202 and finally 10 to 204 an I am unable to raise it any further using Carbos.

on the other hand we have the Lv. 1 Speed Up with the Noibat Regimen (4+ EV each) 2 raises it from 187 to 188, 3 to 189, 5 to 190, 6 to 191, 8 to 192, 9 to 193, 10 to 194..then I got a little impatient and started using all the Speed Bag L's I kept winning, but keeping track of how many Evs were being earned. By the time I stopped out of boredom, I got Mewtwo's speed to 205.

I then exited the game for the third time without saving, then I maxed out how many Carbos it could have and was allowed to use a Speed Bag M to further raise its Speed Ev.

So should it be mentioned in the article that Super Training is either better, or at the very least allows the player to raise their Pokémon's EVs further then they could with Vitamins (alone?) ? Yamitora1 (talk) 22:18, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The advantage of Super Training is that it costs no money. However, it takes a considerable investment of time to get the desired EVs for just one Pokémon. Contrast this with Vitamins which, although exorbitantly expensive and subject to the 100-EV limit, allows a trainer to max out the stats of one Pokémon within seconds. --Arima (talk) 01:25, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I was referring more towards caps in super training. Even when you max out vitamins, you can still train that EV stat until the Super Training application tells you that Pokémon's base stat can't go any higher.
What I want to know is if its better to...
1) To do only Super Training
2) To do some/max out Vitamins then Super Training
I mean does taking vitamins inhibit or speed up the EV training process; are you somehow capping that Pokémon's ability to grow that stat in any way? Could you get that stat to grow more without the Vitamins, or will it grow to the same no matter what? What is the cap, is it the same 255-ev cap the wings have, or is it different?
from what I've seen, it looks like you can max out a single stat and then still train another but once that meter fills up you are done, game over you can't train any other stats.
Another thing I would like to know vs Super Training are the wings. I know the wings have a 255-EV cap. I know it would take an insane amount of dedication, even more so then Super Training or chaining to catch a shinny or just taking your chances to find a shiny without chaining, but could you improve the desired stats more with Wings alone vs super training?
But at the end of the day I am more interested in the pros and cons of Super training, that way we can include that info on the page. - unsigned comment from Yamitora1 (talkcontribs) 05:39, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The caps on Super Training are 252 in a stat. --It's Funktastic~!話してください 05:44, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Horde EV training is typically used over both vitamins and Super Training anyway, as it is far more efficient. --SnorlaxMonster 06:09, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

So Wings would be the better route, but only by 3 evs. As for Horde EV Training, the Horde Encounter article has no details on this. Does it too have a Cap too, whats the difference between gaining EV increase in horse ev training compared to normal one-on-one training?

heh, well I've bred me a test subject and documented multiple things. Tomorrow I guess I will see for myself with trial and error. Hopefully my method will be as sterile as possible to provide the best results. Yamitora1 (talk) 07:08, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Wings wouldn't be better at all because they take longer to get, and I'm guessing they'll have the same 252 ev limit in Gen VI that everything else has. Never mind that the three evs it would have are actually useless. --It's Funktastic~!話してください 07:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
252 EVs is the cap in general. The method by which you increase the EVs is irrelevant.
Horde EV training is when you encounter a Horde of Pokémon that only give out EVs in one stat, then use a move to take them all out at once. Since the EV-enhancing items give out 4 EVs per Pokémon, and Pokérus doubles the EVs given, you get a total of 50 EVs per battle (for Pokémon which give out 1 EV). It's a fan method though, not an official one, which is why it isn't noted on the Horde Encounter page. I think it may deserve a mention though, as it is such a popular way to do it. --SnorlaxMonster 07:23, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Well certainly anything that involves equations and other real-world math to solve and relate to on paper deserves some mention. I might not be able to understand it, but the fact so many things in the games can be written down as an equation makes the articles seem much more then some fansite/wiki mumble jumble (no offense to bulba, its one of the best wikis I know...not that I really hang at others.) There is a fine line between what counts as article worthy notation and what is just plain IGN walk-through and strategy guides. I think the articles should try to cover all facets of a subject as long as they're not artificial. Going a bit in depth into the math behind the chaos is what I love about this site.
With that out of the way and to get back on subject, perhaps some mention of the 252 EVs cap should be noted on the Super Training article. Also maybe a comparison between the various EV altering methods, if only to a small degree? Yamitora1 (talk) 07:37, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Pokémon articles should mention their species ball type

I think it should be mentioned on here and/or the Pokémon articles what type of ball each Pokémon Species has.

I know Mewtwo has an orange ball, Hydreigon has yellow and I believe Charizard has Black. Even if Super Traing changes or is dropped, it still should be mentioned plus the articles mention. After all the Pokémon's Pokéathlon data is still mentioned in articles. Yamitora1 (talk) 19:42, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Charizard's is orange. --Wynd Fox 23:18, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Quotes when using Training Bags

Do you think there should be a page or a section that lists the quotes when a Pokémon uses Training Bags? --Blinx9999guizar (talk) 02:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Moving closer to the balloon bot

You can press the up and down arrow keys on the 3ds to move closer or farther from the balloon bot. I think this should be mentioned somewhere as it's a slightly obscure mechanic...I'm not sure how to utilize it in the game, either. Ymedron (talk) 00:40, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

It's useful when you're trying to battle a fast balloon bot with a slow ball. Not sure where it would go, though. --Wynd Fox 01:11, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Effort-o-meter out of proportion

I understand that some people do not agree with my edits, so I'll bring it up here. What I discovered:

  • If the effort-o-meter displays a hexagon, the Pokémon has a similar EV in all 6 stats.
  • If the Pokémon is trained to grow balancedly in all 6 stats, the graph displays extreme vertices.
    • Take Charizard as an example, the species is stronger in Sp. Atk, Attack and Speed. If it is trained to have a hexagon in the graph, it still grows stronger in the 3 stats over the other 3. If a trainer desires to make the Charizard become more balanced in 6 stats, HP and Sp. Def should be more intensely trained. Doing so will make the Charizard grow more evenly in all 6 stats, but resulting a graph with very sharp HP and Sp. Def.

-Iosue (talk) 05:16, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

I still don't actually really understand what you're trying to say. By "grow evenly", do you just mean the increases to its stats at each level-up? If so, I don't think that balance is likely to hold up reliably. Unless your IV+2*Base_stat+EV/4 adds up to an even multiple of 100 for every stat, after some number of levels, one of your stats is going to increase an extra point than it was. Basically, there's a very good chance your "balance" will unbalance sooner or later.
At any rate, it seems like trivia (a novelty) at best. I don't see a case for this ever being really important for most users. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:45, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
By "even", I mean to minimize the growing rate of all the stats. It is not possible to equalize all of them, but the differences can be minimized if the weakest stat is trained with priority. Of course, this resorts to using mathematics. What I fear is that a perfect hexagon in the graph may give an illusion to a player that "Oh, I have trained this Pokémon to have even performances in all 6 stats". -Iosue (talk) 06:53, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I still don't think most people would ever have that concern. I don't really know why anyone would, honestly.
To be honest, this "green and yellow out of proportion" thing might be something I'd be inclined to note if I observed and understood it well myself. But I don't, so I'm not sure exactly what should/could be said. The problem for now is, the explanation you're trying to make is very confusing, and it's not answering a really pressing question. If that's the case, then on balance it's better to just avoid the confusion of that explanation. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:09, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

We have unlimited time, so we could simply work out a good line to include. -Iosue (talk) 06:19, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Revision 2112800

Pumpkinking0192 wrote:

This isn't given for the standard training bots, so you've introduced inconsistency rather than resolved it; also, a lot of the non-numerical parts border on opinion. Define "heavily," "long," "strong," "quickly," etc.

I agree with his criticism because this table:

Color Effect
Black Average shot, can fire shots in quick succession
Blue Higher shot speed, small shot size, high max power, Guts Shots decrease Guts Meter a lot
Green Slower shot speed, large shot size, high power, Guts Shots decrease Guts Meter a lot
Orange Very large shot size, low power
Yellow Fires multiple shots in succession after charging, small shot size, very low power, Guts Shots don't use much of the Guts Meter

does not border on opinion, where words like "very large size" or "low power" are somehow mathematically deduced.

If my sarcasm offends then I should apologize. Igniting flames is not my goal. I simply wish to know the criteria for being allowed to make contributions here. Thanks. -Iosue (talk) 13:28, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

If you're concerned about your sarcasm, you can always just turn it into an honest/straightforward counterpoint.
Anywho, if it wasn't on the others, that can be remedied. I do essentially like the idea of a description, and I'd be happy to see one for all the regimens.
I do think some of your descriptions could stand some editing to...make them more wiki-worthy (and some of the points like "a single shot may score both goals" are pure walkthrough material), but many of your description points were basically on point and worthwhile, IMO. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:30, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I didn't notice how opinionated that table was; I had my blinders on and was looking only at the standard Super Training table, which has no descriptions at all. I agree that toned-down it could be useful, but without mathematical data from the code itself, I'm not sure how to make it suitably neutral. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 15:42, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for replying, lads. I was not exactly concern with wiki-worthiness when I added them. I meant to set up some sort of a column as a framework or something so others may begin to add. Now that when I am reviewing them, I think the only worthy point to put up is the -9999 points of deduction when hit in the second last regiment. But then, we have no place to put it up there. And walkthrough materials, I am not sure how to achieve a balance. There are certainly some phenomenal observations possible in these regiments, like the scatterbug and spewpa's hits are not damaging but the vivillon's are. I don't think mathematical figures are crucial. Sometimes, unbiased qualitative data are better if quantitativeness cannot be achieved. -Iosue (talk) 04:33, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

What about this? We add columns like "Rapid shots", "Rapid movements" or "Barrier". Like this:
Lv. Regimen name Balloon Bots Points to beat Prizes Barrier Rapid movements Rapid shots Tracing shots
4 The Troubles Keep on Coming?! Aurorus
1800 Pretty Wing
Fresh Water
Health Wing
Muscle Wing
Genius Wing
Swift Wing
Resist Wing
Clever Wing
5 The Leaf Stone Cup Begins! Venusaur 4000 Pretty Wing
Soda Pop
Hard Stone
Leaf Stone
5 The Fire Stone Cup Begins! Charizard 4000 Pretty Wing
Soda Pop
Hard Stone
Fire Stone

-Iosue (talk) 13:34, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

I made a couple edits directly to the table. You shouldn't have those kinds of formats in a table generally. I also kind of think the last few columns should be combined into one. They force the table fairly wide, and it'd be nicer if you could just write (for example) "Rapid shots, tracing shots" in one cell and let that wrap however it wants/needs to. In a similar vein, you might also revert the prize list to a comma-separated series, so the rows aren't taller than they have to be either. Tiddlywinks (talk) 13:56, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Pokemon Ball Type needs to be included here

Sorry for posting this once again, but I need the help of the people here. We already have several people asking for this in the bottom posts. I am making new heading for this because I am working on the list.

I have already completed the list of Gen I, Gen II and Gen V. Would appreciate help if possible. All anyone needs to do is create a template and help edit the main page with the information. Needs sprite as well. >-< Been looking everywhere for help, but you guys are the only ones who gave a please help out!! T^T Samhiuy (talk) 12:12, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Team Flare Bag/ORAS

Is the Team Flare Bag actually in ORAS? And/or are there any new ORAS Training Bags? Tiddlywinks (talk) 19:40, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Super Secret Training Tiers

This page mentions several tiers of Super Secret Training with odd numbers of regiments. I can confirm that in X, there are only 2 tiers with 6 regiments in each. Jumiric (talk) 20:50, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

It was talking about the numbers that are reflected in the leftmost column of the table in that section. It was a pretty pointless statement anyway, though, especially since it is in the table at this point. Tiddlywinks (talk) 21:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah, sorry. It looked like something that had been changed in a patch with the wording. Jumiric (talk) 21:40, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Super Training Music is From "Lost Magic"

I'm really shocked that nobody else on the internet seems to have noticed this, but the "victory" music used for super training and the subsequent "stat increase" sounds (as well as maybe main theme that plays during the minigame, not sure about that one) are so plainly the music and sound effects from the Nintendo DS game "Lost Magic". Since Ubisoft made the game, I guess Nintendo just bought the rights to it and hoped nobody would notice?

I of course don't have definitive proof because I cannot extract the sound files from either game, but I'm 100% positive, and I think this should be added in a "trivia" section on this page.

Don't get me wrong - I loved the music in Lost Magic, it just feels a bit out of place that it popped up randomly in Pokemon years later... Ulithium Dragon (talk) 02:00, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I see a resemblance, but which tracks are you referring to specifically? ShadowBlizzard (talk) 03:52, 20 October 2015 (UTC)