Talk:AmourShipping

Put a notice that is a incomplete page. There are more sections missed.

I made this page because AmourShipping is so important now to not have a page yet. - unsigned comment from Nymphia (talk • contribs)

About Serena cheering for Ash

The fact that Serena cheered for Ash is an Amoushipping hint, but it is not an opportunity to diminish other ships. Misty, Dawn, and Iris all went to great lengths to cheer for Ash as well during battles. I have seen people on Tumblr discussing the content of this page and they seemed upset that false information was published. Please keep to only Amourshipping hints without mentioning other ships. Otherwise, OTP biases find their way on ;) Mooites (talk) 05:02, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

XY009

Should it be added that in xy009, serena was mad at clemont even though it wasn't her that got kicked out of his gym or something? Taeuknam (talk) 04:58, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

XY008 & XY010

The scene at the end of the episode where Serena says to herself how nice it would be to have something you like, it is not a hint. I don't understand why some people keep including it? She was clearly talking about her goal and not Ash because it was after she noticed how Jessica was so passionate about grooming. She did not imply Ash because she obviously would have started blushing if he overheard her. It has already been dissected by fluent Japanese speaking people on the pokemon forums and they all said it was in relation to the goal so I am still confused as to why some people are so adamant about that hint.

Also when Ash unties Serena in XY010, how is that a hint? He was clearly not going to just leave her tied up. And if you want to argue that he "forgot" to untie sycamore, the same could be said about Clemont who was untying his own sister. I understand you guys are excited about this shipping and all, but try to keep the hints realistic please. We want actual hints on this page, not something like "untying" someone else -.- - unsigned comment from Midnight Moon (talk • contribs)

Picture?

Shouldn't there be a picture somewhere on the page? Someone should put on up; I would but I cannot lol :p Midnight Moon (talk) 03:17, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

All things considered, I think the soon-to-be-released poster would make the best image for the article. If something is edited in before then, it should be Ash leading Serena out of the forest (from XY007). --Purimpopoie (talk) 11:27, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

XY20

I think there is a hint in the beginning of XY20. Serena is blushing while looking at Ash and saying something. Although, I'm not sure it's a hint. We're going to need the episode to be subbed to find out. Slick532 (talk) 14:53, 22 March 2014 (UTC)Slick532

She was probably just describing the Battle Chateau to him. ZappaOMati 15:22, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

The Mirror Episode

Its possible that someone will refute my removal of the Mirror Episode hint. After watching the episode myself, I believe that the incident where Ash grabs Serena's hand is not an indication that he has romantic feelings for her. Of the three hands reached out to him, he was closest to Serena's and Bonnie's. Clemont was on the far side. Bonnie's arm is shorter than Serena's, so Serena's hand was the closest one. Furthermore, Ash has proven on many occasions that he deeply trusts all of his traveling companions. We cannot claim that the reason he grabbed Serena's hand is because he trusts her more than Bonnie and Clemont, there is not sufficient evidence. Clemont has saved Ash's life before, remember? Surely Ash would trust him as well. Mooites (talk) 01:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree mostly; the only thing I can think of to refute this is that Clemont could've used his robotic arm to save Ash, and that the writers maybe didn't have him do that simply to emphasize him grabbing Serena's hand. Probably not the case, though. Also, kudos for being realistic and not taking every little thing as a hint! We need more shippers like that. Shadow Yoshi (talk) 02:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I would have to respectfully disagree I think it was a AmourShipping moment not only does Ash reach out for Serena's hand but he also Jumps for Serena.In that scene Clemont and Bonnie completely disappear until Serena grabs him then Clemont and Bonnie return to help pull Ash up but for a few seconds it was just about the two of them.I think its pretty clear that the animators were going for a Shipping moment but its your call.

I looked at some other shipping pages (Pearlshipping and Imageshipping) and noticed that "saving the other person from falling to their death" has been used as a hint on those pages too. We should probably do our best to keep it consistent, so lets add the Mirror Episode moment back under hints. I'll phrase it differently though to make it clear that this is an example of Ash trusting Serena, not an example of Ash chosing Serena over Bonnie and Clemont. Is that ok? Mooites (talk) 17:08, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Please stop

I have noticed continuously that people keep adding things that are not really "hints". These things keep getting added although they are not AmourShipping hints at all, and I am a huge AmourShipping so it's not like I am saying this because I don't like the ship or anything. Please stop as it is getting really annoying. Examples:

• As Ash follows Bonnie down to an Ursaring, Serena says "What are you doing?", applying that she thought Ash was walking into danger.

-> Asking a question (and in the dub no less) means nothing. There is a difference between general concern and a "shippy" reaction of concern. Learn the difference.

• After Hawlucha lands a Flying Press on Ash, Serena has a shocked expression on her face and runs to him in concern (although this was the group's general reaction).

-> The fact that it is the group's general reaction does NOT make this an AmourShipping hint.

Also, can people also stop re-editing things and changing the hints every time the dub episode comes out? It is better to have hints of the original Japanese rather than dub edits. Thanks

Midnight Moon (talk)

Except this is an English wiki that revolves primarily around the English/USA versions of Pokémon media. We don't title character pages with their Japanese names and then include the English names in parentheses; we do the opposite. Also, the "Japanese episodes reveal more hints sometimes" argument is null because the dub won't (and can't) mess with a relationship if it were actually going to happen. I get that occasionally the random meaningless hints are different in the dub, but it's not like the dub will change anything meaningful. Shadow Yoshi (talk) 05:00, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Most exclusively?

"Among all of Ash's female companions, Serena has been the one who is featured the most exclusively with Ash."

The above statement was thrown into the trivia, but I think it should be either removed or made more specific. Depending on how it is looked at, this statement can be disagreeable. There are many ways to be featured, but Serena is not shown the most exclusive with Ash in all of those ways. It doesn't have to be removed, though; it can be fixed. For example, it could be specified that Serena was the most featured in childhood exclusively with Ash. But unless it is not made to be true, I think the trivia should be removed.

Removed that piece of trivia after a while. Worded really confusingly and not elaborated on. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 11:33, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Please, guys

Please use proper grammar and only include valid hints. This page, I'd say, is one of the worst about this, and we all should pitch in to make that change. Use proper capitalization and punctuation. Follow Bulbapedia's formatting guidelines. It's "Pokémon," not "pokemon."

As for hints, Bulbapedia doesn't like us relying on fansubs, so if you don't understand Japanese ask someone who does or wait for the dub. Also, don't add hints that aren't actually hints. This was discussed a couple sections up, so please read that. If you're unsure about a hint, you might want to bring it up on here.

Thanks. Ax3w (talk) 22:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Gift

While I agree it is a hint, the way it says "It's the first time he's given one of his female friends a gift" sounds wrong, as he gifted Iris a flower back in Best Wishes. Even if it's a different context, it's still a gift. So maybe more along the lines as he gifted her it without expecting anything in return or something like that, as it's not the first time he's given a female friend a gift of any sort, as it kinda feels like OTP Bias is creeping in. Thanks Waterninja12345 (talk) 00:46, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Incomplete sections

Why are there incomplete headings over the alternate names and trivia sections? If there aren't any other alternate names, then there aren't, and same for the trivia if nobody can think of anything else for the time being. Those headings being there makes no sense to me - I don't feel like those sections "need more information" if there isn't more information to give. AGGRON989 18:39, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

XY21

Seriously? Ash was staring at Serena, out of ATTRACTION?? Nope! If it was, then how can you explain the omg that's amazing reactions from Clemont and Bonnie?- unsigned comment from Jaanichu (talk • contribs)

It's because it's a blank stare rather than a "that's amazing" reaction that Clemont and Bonnie have. Shadow Yoshi (talk) 14:08, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Huh. thats nice to know. how can you be so sure it's not puberty screwing him over? and i need to stop turning japanese. - unsigned comment from Jaanichu (talk • contribs)

We need to look at Ash more for this ship

DISCLAIMER: This post is heavily my opinion, although I am going to support it with what I have observed. The only factual information is this: Serena has a crush on Ash. I just want to get us to all get more support for Ash in AmourShipping.

It's seeming more and more to me that Ash is getting a closer bond with Serena as the series is progressing. One of the many shortcomings that other shippings are currently having is that there isn't a lot posted about Ash, and that it is mostly focused on the female companion's hints. I'd like to see if the people here as a whole would collaborate in rewatching a lot of episodes. I'd be more than happy to assist in this. While I haven't exactly pointed out any things yet, we need to really rewatch the episodes and make more points on Ash and his feelings.

To start I'm going to point out some of the difficulties we might encounter...such as:

1. Ash has always been noted for being dense, as well as not picking up on hints or social cues given off by his companions.

2. We need to realize one thing: Ash hasn't ever had a confirmed crush on anyone. Shippers can ship, but the developers and screenwriters love making us want more.

3. The fact that Serena DOES have a crush on Ash, which makes us gravitate to her hints more.

4. This is marketed as a children's show, and Ash the protagonist, who is actually over 15 (according to what Ash has said to Iris in Black and White, and the math done in the number of episodes representing a 365 day year), will always be 10 due to erroneous screenwriting.

5. Sometimes it's harder to view a character, such as Ash, with scrutiny, partly because he is a male. Some people gravitate towards the female characters because they feel like "Ash is trying to be a man!" or something similar to that, and hides his feelings well.

6. Holy s***, there are so many other ships, which makes this one just as hard to prove as the others. From my personal experience, other shippers may try and criticize whatever we may post. I'm not here to start a war, so don't view this as a war declaration on your ships.

Truth be told, #5 and #6 are just basic problems with every ship. Some more info is below on what I have noted that could help us with my goal (which could make our ship the best supported)

1. Ash does show his feelings a lot more than he used to, as compared with the other partners he travelled with. We just need to develop ourselves as a whole to be able to see the meanings behind these feelings. We could apply these skills to other ships as well, although this suddenly has become almost the #1 ship (if not the #1) because Serena HAS a crush on Ash.

2. This is my biggest argument going for the ship, and this could possibly help us analyze AmourShipping more. This is from a logical standpoint, and is my personal opinion based on other animes, TV series, movies and such. The developers aren't going to toss Serena out of the way with the "following my dream" reason when the next gen or whatever comes out. If Serena, who is a main character, does have an actual crush on Ash, they aren't just going to leave us hanging like that, unless something happens that destroys Serena's feelings for Ash, or Ash gets forced away from Serena somehow, which would most likely not happen, because Serena would most likely follow Ash wherever he goes because she cares a lot about him, and not just her dreams of being the Kalos Queen. As far as I've noticed, the only thing Serena really wants is Ash's attention, respect and (possibly) affection. Remember, all of Ash's previous companions left because they were following their own dreams, or duties. It may be repetitive, but I can't stress the fact enough that Serena actually has a crush on Ash. She won't just disappear because she wants to be the Kalos Queen, or compete in contests all over the planet like May and Dawn. One of her wants is now to travel with Ash. Come on now, Misty travelled with Ash for a long time, as did Brock. Why won't Serena? She just found him after several (Seven, right? Another argument for Ash being older than 10) years. What on earth makes people think that a character with this sort of backstory would just disappear again? As a side note: Please, do not say Misty, May, Dawn, or anyone else as this is an entirely different scenario. Serena was a childhood friend, not someone who got zapped by Pikachu. We also need to remember that Ash openly welcomed Serena into the group, instead of guilting or forcing her way into the group.

3. Here is what should be the #1 rule of every ship, and this is the entire point of why I want to do this. A ship is best supported when we can have a number of arguments going for each person. More support, better proof.

So, I want to know if this is something that people would possibly be interested in investigating with me. I'm going to be very careful in what I post in the actual page, as to avoid posting information viewed as inaccurate. We all as a whole also need to remember that the other character-shippers may be a lot more critical on our gathered information than ourselves, but that they are also biased towards their own ship. Remember, there is our view, their view, and the actual truth of the matter is in between. Stay frosty out there, and don't let the other shippers or ourselves actively destroy the page with inaccurate perceptions and bickering. I'd say the same for any other ship.

Monsta 02:06, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm in whenever i can. 1. Ash was slightly disappointed when time ran out before he could dance with Serena. Jahman (talk) 05:34, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. On the subject of that episode, I honestly think that entire episode wasn't scrutinized enough for Ash. Did anyone notice how annoyed him and Pikachu seemed with Miette? We all know Pikachu acts a lot like Ash. I'm specifically talking about the dance and the fact Miette made him carry about 20 f****** dresses at once. He's never annoyed with Serena. Also, he seemed to be a lot happier when he was doing the double battle with Serena. Someone might throw the argument that "Ash doesn't dance" or "Ash doesn't like to dance" but I think that's been disproved several times. Monsta 14:04, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

XY23

I'm starting with this Episode because it's currently where I've decided to start analyzing Ash closer. This is PURE SPECULATION. Also, because they are there, there are some mixed hints and some specifically just for Serena.

1. Okay, probably going to put my foot in my mouth because I said we needed to focus on Ash more than Serena, but does anyone else notice that near the beginning of the episode, when the camera is focused on Froakie facing Fletchling, it appears as if Serena has her hand on Ash's lower back. Could be the angle, but it's worth looking at. I put this screenshot on Imgur. --> [1] Take a look at Ash and Serena. Doesn't look as if Ash is wanting her to take her hand off either. Looking at the way her feet are positioned, her other arm is hidden from the camera, disappearing behind Clemont. It's hard to tell where Clemont and Serena's other arms are, because of Bonnies hairstyle, but from the way their feet and legs are positioned, they are not holding hands (because I feel like someone would try to argue that). Oh yeah, and then the camera position changes, showing Clemont and Serena are farther apart than they appear. Ash apparently has moved a little farther away because he was focused on his Pokemon at the point. Originally, Ash was near Serena. If someone wants to say that Serena was originally standing like she currently is, I can argue that her arm is shown to be lowered, and she is now facing towards Fletchling. Pretty decent argument for possibly adding this moment to the page.

2. This seems to be a possible hint for both Ash and Serena. When Alexa asks Serena if she decided to travel with Ash, she affirms. Clemont and Ash turn to face Serena, who also turns, but you notice Ash and Serena make eye contact, whereas Clemont hasn't changed his eye direction that much, and appears to be glancing at both of them. Ash's and Serena's eyebrows appear to have a pleased and determined look to them, while Clemont's eyebrows show a more lightened mood of just being happy in general.

3. Another possible hint for both of them. It's also much smaller. Ash looks directly at Serena after he declares they will follow Aurorus. He does look to Clemont, but notice he looked at Serena first. Also, Serena is the first one to respond with an affirmative response, showing that she does trust Ash. Clemont could have easily stepped forward first, but he didn't, and Serena did. This is why I haven't just put this possible hint under the "just a coincidence" thing. Also, this shows trust for Ash's judgement.

4. A smaller hint. Serena was originally behind Ash with Bonnie and Clemont when they came to the river. When Aurorus froze it, she was crossing the river while next to Ash. However, cutting to the next scene, she is leading the other characters, which means she could have been trying to hurry and find Amaura.

5. When sliding down the hill, Serena is closely behind Ash. She's not grabbing onto him, but she's not as far from Ash as she is with Clemont.

That's roughly what I gathered from this episode. Man, it's hard to decipher Ash's motives because Serena actually has a crush on him. With her, it's easier. However, there were some hint's that Ash was showing. Anyways, speculate away!

--Monstarules (talk) 04:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

In my view, that is almost entirely speculation and reaching pretty far to find points for the sake of adding stuff. Especially on longer ship pages like this one, the point is not to list every little possible hint, but to focus on the main evidence for the ship. Also, unrelated, but I have a decent display on my laptop and that image is humongous. Smaller images are better, no need for something that takes up nearly the whole screen of a full HD 1960x1080 display. ChE clarinetist (talk) 05:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Well sure, it's why I labeled it as speculation! However, I do disagree with your opinion slightly. While this is a large page, and I don't want to jumble it with nonsense, every bit of tangible evidence helps, and that first one is the one I feel should really be added. I did say that there's not a lot of focus on Ash, but that hint there for Serena (Hint #1) seems like it could be added. Sorry for the huge image by the way, my computer is quite powerful and has a nice monitor :p --Monstarules (talk) 15:05, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

That is not a hint, as it is not true. That is just the way she is standing slightly behind Ash and her arm is behind him blocked from view. Happens a lot in the anime. And as you said, you labeled it as speculation. While in most cases shipping pages are fan speculation, there is a limit as to how much speculation can be tolerated. If you have to stretch to make something fit, it does not belong on the page. If you have to try to guess a character's thoughts, it does not belong on the page. A lot of what you posted is a long stretch, and does not actually mean anything more than "the animators forgot the positions, or needed to switch them around for the next scene". ChE clarinetist (talk) 16:15, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

XY104

Does anybody have anything for Ash this episode? Jahman (talk) 19:42, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

About some mistakes

Ok, I understand that there is a hype for this shipping, but please... In their similarities there is a line that says "They both own a Pokédex." Ok, so maybe let`s write down there that they also have a pair of eyes, a nose, maybe they are both humans...? But for real, this is some kind of joke. And the second one that isn`t necessary there is that they "Both have changed their hats at some point." May changed her bandanna in Sinnoh and it`s not written on Advanceshipping page, so must it be here? ._. --Ilizjon (talk) 00:39, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Other Hints

I like to take another perspective on AmourShipping - it is ultimately up to the writers of the show to decide the fate of Ash and Serena (romantically and otherwise). I like looking for the "other hints" that may not be as obvious as "Serena blushes so she likes Ash". Here are some things I am picking up on that I think could be added:

Kanto and Kalos - Maybe this is a stretch or there is a better reason than what I've come up with but, wow these names seem similar and we know how the creative team behind Pokémon like giving male and female Pokémon counterparts similar sounding names (Gallade and Gaurdevior, I think they are using this parallel for Ash and Serena regarding the regions they are from.

Kalos is supposed to represent France - I would say Lumiose City is Paris (Lumiose tower is clearly designed after the Eiffle Tower), and France and Paris are known worldwide as a destination for romance. It seems to me the creators are setting the scene for this and with Serena's obvious crush on Ash which is made clear to us early on in the series we can accept that romance will be a major theme of the XY, XYZ series.

"The green, green grass types of home!" Episode - Ash learns a lesson from the gym leader - When weeding the garden the gym leader tells Ash to not rush and pull the weeds out carelessly. In parting the weeds there are 2 seedlings (2 hmmmm). The advice is (from the Japanese) "If you only focus on what's right before your eyes, you'll lose sight of the really important things". This could be interpreted a number of ways but I think what is right in front of Ash is his dream of becoming a Pokémon Master (considering his attitude when arriving at the gym - wanting to battle immediately and being tragically disappointed as that got delayed by tea and gardening). I think the "really important things" refers to life beyond his dream (a family? - Serena). I think this idea is supported when Ash delays getting his 8th gym badge (arguably the most important one because he needs 8 to enter the league) in order to let Serena compete in her next showcase.

And for some speculation . . . While we are not far into XYZ as I am writing this I am picking up on some other interesting "hints". There is Z1 and Z2 (one has red, like Serena's clothes, the other has blue, like Ash's clothes). Z1 and Z2 can transform independently but I suspect that when they come together they can transform into their most powerful form - could this be a parallel to Ash and Serena regarding their pursuit of their dreams (they will each be stronger if they finally come together and Serena confesses her feelings to Ash), (I don't want to give any spoilers here as I have watched the Japanese episodes and I know what happens to Serena).

Thoughts? If I have anything listed that is inaccurate please fix it

--Ponytas (talk) 19:20, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Kanto/Kalos is, in my view, too much speculation to really be included. The whole Kalos=France is brought up on the Kalos page, and has its own nod in the name of the ship (Amour, French for love). Any more than that is too much speculation. You are looking too much into what Ramos could have been thinking, something that is not allowed to be posted unless the character says in their head (so viewers can hear it) what they are thinking. Zygarde colors are also the colors of France's flag. Look at the Complete Forme: blue, white, red...same order as France's flag. That's where the colors came from. To sum it up, too much speculation with some coincidence, none of that should be added. ChE clarinetist (talk) 19:26, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

The Debate on calling this a Shipping

Serena kissed Ash. This, hands down, is definitely one thing that sets this shipping aside from all others. I did a critical review on the XY, and XYZ series as a whole, and from a critical perspective, this is going to lead to something else, just saying. The Pokémon writers are alluding to something developing in both of the characters. Ash was visibly touched by what happened. A lot of people have thrown the argument that he only smiled and said bye. Well, we do have to remember, he's not the best with words. I've also seen the argument that he's 10...well he's stuck in an eternal youth because anime magic...so I really don't think age matters, because he's obviously aged in a sense. The way that Ash and Serena have acted, they act more like a couple than just friends. There is a ton that has set this shipping apart from all the others, including Serena having a canon crush on Ash. Also, they have a lot of 1 on 1 time together. It's an unusual amount, compared to the time he spent 1 on 1 with other characters. It's like, an every other episode type of frequency, and they are almost always together and next to each other, and Ash is totally accepting of it. He would not let other characters get that close to him. I'm almost 100% positive this isn't the last we're going to see of Serena. From a critical point more than a fan point, it wouldn't make any sense to show a developing bond like that and just let it fall through, even if it's just a childrens show. It happened with Misty, but out of all the deuteragonists and tritagonists, only Brock appeared more. If something was going to happen with any of the other female characters, it would have happened already. While they usually appear in flashbacks, there weren't that many flashbacks involving Ash's past companions recently. In fact there wasn't a single one in the XY, or XY and Z series.

Tl;dr for the people who didn't want to read, I'm going to just start a small debate on whether this should be called a relationship, and not just a shipping. Monstarules (talk) 00:46, 28 October 2016 (UTC) (20:46, 27th October, 2016 (EDT))

If you're convinced there'll be more and that's what your argument is premised on, then it seems best to just wait for more to happen before trying to make any decision like that. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:54, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I am indeed convinced, as should everyone else be that she is definitely going to appear again somehow. Believe it or not, there is a PETITION that was made on Change.org that actually gathered almost 30k signatures involving Serena and Alola. This ship has recieved attention and notice from Pokémon officals, and with that said, they wouldn't let the fanbase or critics down. The fanbase has shifted to a late teens to late 20's age group. Newer kids aren't watching Pokémon as much as we did when we were children or teens. Monstarules (talk) 06:22, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I won't begrudge you your enthusiasm. Still, the proof is in the pudding, as they say. We'll see. Tiddlywinks (talk) 07:31, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

She did promise to see him again, and he is her goal, those words right there are straight from that last episode. If they didn't follow up with that, critical as well as fan ratings would go down. Wouldn't make much sense, would it? Every time a character promised to see someone again, they did, didn't they? That includes May, Dawn, Brock and Misty. Iris and Ash didn't grow as close as Misty, Dawn and May. And nobody cut it as close as Serena did. Past friends usually make a re-appearance in the next seasons. I wouldn't be surprised if Misty visited Alola either. Monstarules (talk) 16:28, 29 October 2016 (UTC)