User talk:Tootlerocks123

Welcome to Bulbapedia, Tootlerocks123!

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Thank you, and have a good time editing here!       Anzasquiddles 2222(:D)SSSS (talk) 09:31, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Rescue Team DX

Hi Tootlerocks, I've noticed you've been doing a lot of work on adding Rescue Team DX information - thanks for your help so far! I'm wondering whether the data you've been adding is datamined information or whether it's empirical data you've been able to obtain from doing many runs of the dungeons? For example, are the item lists for the individual dungeons or the locations of each TM sourced from datamined information? --Wowy_(talk) 02:18, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! All the Rescue Team DX information I'm adding for items, TMs, and traps is empirically sourced from doing repeated dungeon runs. I don't have access to datamined info on the game so this is the way I'm doing it. Hope that's okay! Tootlerocks123 (talk) 02:51, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the prompt reply!

Happy to see what your opinion is on this, but I'm tempted to remove the floor numbers of the different items for each dungeon, reasons being:

A) I feel the information is too incomplete, up to the point where it is no longer useful / accurate / potentially misleading to the reader. For example, in Silver Trench, the page is telling me I can get a Foe-Hold Orb on floor 7 and 9, but not floor 8. But presumably this is because by chance you never got to pick up a Foe-Hold Orb on that floor, but listing out all the floors can imply otherwise.

B) The second reason is that, listing all the floor numbers works on the assumption that each floor has a unique set of items. Yet to my knowledge, we don't have any proof that each dungeon has a unique set of items on each floor (of course some dungeons like the 99 F ones might do though; and we are also not talking about the last dungeon floor special items). The opposite (that all items can be found on any floor) is also an assumption, but removing the floor numbers completely means we don't need to assume either way. All we do is just tell the reader that this item can be found in this dungeon.

In a similar vein, for the list of locations of TMs, I feel the list is too incomplete to be useful, and works on the assumption that different dungeons can give you different TMs (which is possible, of course), and there's also an assumption with the Treasure Boxes as well (e.g. I can find Dream Eater only from a Pretty Box in Mt Thunder, but it has to be a Deluxe Box from Remains Island)

I know you would have spent a lot of time on this, but I hope the above makes sense. Like I said, happy to hear your / others opinion on this as well. --Wowy_(talk) 04:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughts. I think what you've said is fair enough for the items in dungeons. From my empirical data I've come to suspect that most likely, all items in a dungeon can be found on all floors. So far I have actually empirically confirmed this for Tiny Woods and Thunderwave Cave (and also for Mt. Steel excluding Kecleon Shops). It would also be an enormous amount of work yet to confirm this empirically for every other dungeon too, and I see what you mean about potential confusion given by partial floor numbers as well. Personally, I'd be happy to just list the dungeon floors as the full set of floors (e.g. 1F-98F for Silver Trench), in the same way as the Generation III items are listed - so far there's no empirical evidence to disprove that conjecture, and if we end up with other information that does prove otherwise (e.g. confirmation that Foe-Hold Orb actually can never spawn on 8F), we can update the information then.

The list of TMs may be slightly more complex to handle. At this stage I'm not convinced that every TM can appear in every dungeon; there are some dungeons where that may be possible (Buried Relic comes to mind), but since TMs spawn relatively infrequently as is, I think it'd be tough to gather enough evidence to conclusively say this one way or another. We also have to consider that in some dungeons, TMs can only spawn in Kecleon shops and not on the dungeon floor (e.g. Murky Cave), or conversely TMs spawn on the dungeon floor but not in shops (e.g. Mt. Blaze). The individual dungeon lists do note this, and I think it'd be good for the list of TMs table to be consistent with those dungeon lists where possible. For Pretty/Deluxe Boxes though, I think it'd be okay to remove the dungeons where those boxes were found, since it'd take many, many more boxes before we can draw any meaningful conclusions about TM drops from boxes. Another possibility may be to list TM locations as "Various dungeons" or similar if they spawn in dungeons, although again it'd be nice to have consistency between pages about TM spawns. Happy to hear your thoughts on this too. Tootlerocks123 (talk) 05:36, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok, what you've said above sounds fine to me. For TMs, I agree that it is likely that not every TM can appear in every dungeon. I think this is a safe presumption to make because the precedence from the previous games is that different TMs are found in different dungeons.

So to summarise, we will aim to list item availabilities as the full set of floors (e.g. 1F-98F for Silver Trench). For TMs, perhaps "Various dungeons (including Buried Relic, Tiny Woods [list all the dungeons])" might be an ok workaround? For Pretty and Deluxe Boxes, we will just combine them into "Treasure Boxes"? (Do you think there are differences in the TM drops for the different boxes, or is it just that they are more likely to drop with Deluxe Boxes?) Wowy_(talk) 08:42, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that seems like a good summary, and I think your suggestions for the TMs will work as well. I'm not really sure whether Deluxe Boxes drop different TMs to Pretty Boxes, or even if Deluxe Boxes drop TMs more frequently - in fact, Pretty/Deluxe Boxes seem to drop TMs at roughly the same rate from what I've seen. In any case, I'm happy to update the dungeon pages and the list of TMs accordingly.

(On a similar note, it might be worth rethinking how items are reported for Super Mystery Dungeon as well, since the dungeon pages for that game also report only partial floor ranges for items, which could also be misleading. I'm probably not the person to consult about that game specifically since I've never played it, but just a thought.) Tootlerocks123 (talk) 13:00, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Great, thanks for your hard work :) One quick question, would you be able to check what the sell price for TM Grass Knot is? It's the only TM with a buy price not a multiple of 50 so I wonder whether the sell price follows the pattern for the rest of the TMs. I don't own this TM unfortunately. Wowy_(talk) 10:59, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Just checked Grass Knot in DX and indeed it has an unusual sell price of 372 Poké - multiplying that by 5 gives the buy price of 1860 Poké. Let me know if I can help with anything else! Tootlerocks123 (talk) 11:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)