# Talk:Voltorb Flip

I'm sorry, what? No gambling elements? What about the fact that if you quit, you get to keep the coins, and if you flip another card there's a chance you'll lose said coins?

- Because there is no ante. ORLY 21:05, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

## Contents

- 1 Question
- 2 Advancing/dropping levels
- 3 Level 8
- 4 Advancing from Lv.7 to Lv.8
- 5 Finding a "dead" row
- 6 The Voltorb Flip ranges on Bulbapedia are incorrect
- 7 "Is this what you're expecting?!" Message?
- 8 Easier way?
- 9 Improved voltorb flip calculator
- 10 Exact Coin payouts
- 11 Payout?
- 12 Voltorb amount pattern

## Question

Does the card flip COMPLETELY replace the Slot Machines in all non-Japanese versions? Or do they exist alongside the slot machines? I hadn't seen anything which explicitly says one way or the other. Chicobo329 04:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

## Advancing/dropping levels

Completing a level is not the only way to advance. Sometimes, quitting a level several times in a row will also cause an advance, often jumping several levels higher. At the same time, quitting several times in a row may also cause a drop in level, but often not as severe as a drop via Voltorb.

I haven't figured out the exact mechanics to this. I suspect it has something to do with the total amount of coins you're earning per level, but in no way am I sure. Should this information be added as is or should I wait for someone with more information to add it, so that it sounds better once it's in? Dragoness 10:44, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

## Level 8

The page said level 7 was the max level, but I managed level 8 by beating level 7 three times consecutively. Does anyone know what the real max level is? - *unsigned comment from Daigu (talk • contribs) *

- Not anymore, it seems... CuboneKing 03:16, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
- I've also heard there was a level 8. I'll be damned if I can get there. —
**darklordtrom**03:44, 5 May 2010 (UTC)- My game just skipped from level 6 to level 8. I got about 400 something coins on level 6 and then 3,456 coins on level 8. (I know it's counting up from three... weird!) I beat level 8 once and didn't advance. The second time I received 2,187 coins and still did not advance. I hit a Voltorb on the first try on my third game and dropped to level 1. :(
**~~Star★you**17:01, 28 June 2010 (UTC)- I can back this up too since I beat Level 8 through sheer dumb luck after advancing from level 6 and not only did I see the level 8 at the top of my screen when I looked after seeing the over 2,000+ coins I won on that game, then when I pressed the button expecting to go to Level 9, it didn't raise any levels. This careful observation that I monitored can help prove that level 8 is the maximum level for the Voltorb Flip. In fact when I saw the level as my money was that high I remember saying "what" in total surprise. -Tyler53841 17:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
- So if we're skipping from 6 to 8, then does 7 even exist? —
**darklordtrom**04:52, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

- So if we're skipping from 6 to 8, then does 7 even exist? —

- I can back this up too since I beat Level 8 through sheer dumb luck after advancing from level 6 and not only did I see the level 8 at the top of my screen when I looked after seeing the over 2,000+ coins I won on that game, then when I pressed the button expecting to go to Level 9, it didn't raise any levels. This careful observation that I monitored can help prove that level 8 is the maximum level for the Voltorb Flip. In fact when I saw the level as my money was that high I remember saying "what" in total surprise. -Tyler53841 17:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

- My game just skipped from level 6 to level 8. I got about 400 something coins on level 6 and then 3,456 coins on level 8. (I know it's counting up from three... weird!) I beat level 8 once and didn't advance. The second time I received 2,187 coins and still did not advance. I hit a Voltorb on the first try on my third game and dropped to level 1. :(

- I've also heard there was a level 8. I'll be damned if I can get there. —
- Yeah, Level 7 is possible since I got there in another game in Level 6 previously, but I also recall that I skipped to Level 8 another time before though I lost in that time. It makes me think that there is a hidden mechanic that allows the player to skip a level. Funny thing is I didn't know I was playing Level 8 on that day until the huge amount of money caused me to see the level I was at. If I hadn't seen it clearly not raise a Level while at Level 8, then my witnessing it being the highest level would not have been as accurate. -Tyler53841 04:58, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

## Advancing from Lv.7 to Lv.8

"The only way to advance to higher levels is to win the round; level 8 is achieved by winning level 7 a random number of times." This is somewhat true. In order to advance from Level 7 to Level 8 without quitting is to earn a payout less than 1,000 coins. If you clear the board and gain more than 1,000 coins, you will stay at Level 7. I am not 100% sure how to advance levels by quitting. At Level 8, it is impossible (or extremely unlikely) to earn a payout of less than 1,000 coins, therefore it is the max level. ORLY 21:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

- What? If you multiply, unless parenthesis are present, you get the same answer no matter what order they are in. Take 2 times 3 times 2 times 2. You'll always get 24, even if you do it in that order or 2 times 2 times 2 times 3 or 3 times 2 times 2 times 2. Turtwig's A-B-Cs (talk | contribs) 21:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

But the amount of x2 and x3 are random, though the sum of them in a level are always the same. So 3x3x3x3x2 is not the same as 2x2x2x2x2, is it?--Lucastcorrea 23:27, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

## Finding a "dead" row

also, to find a dead row, just look at the amount of voltorb and the sum of cards. if the voltorb + sum of cards is equal to five, that row is dead. if there are six, then there will be at least one two, but no three. if it is 7+, then it will contain anything from voltorb to 3's. Kaychun LPM 15:40, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

## The Voltorb Flip ranges on Bulbapedia are incorrect

I recently found that on Level 1 I got 81 coins. 81. So that seems to prove Bulbapedia wrong. And also I can back this up with the fact I got 273 coins on LEVEL 5. So what is the real limit? I don't know.

--915346782zzzzzzzz 06:52, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

- UPDATE* Level 2 net me 265 Coins. Wow...

915346782zzzzzzzz 06:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

## "Is this what you're expecting?!" Message?

I recently found that sometimes "Is this what you're expecting?!" appears on the screen when selecting the same type of card an amount of times. There also is an amount of times you must select the cards before this starts to appear. I don’t know the amount of times for ether values, so is these numbers random? This is real!!--MatthewCenance 14:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

- I don't know about that. They can be Voltorb too. I think it's just a completely random event. --
**Snorlax****Monster**14:48, 25 April 2011 (UTC)- I think it's dependent on what the chance is, based on what tiles are already uncovered. I haven't played in a while, but if I remember correctly that message came up most often when I was uncovering a tile which I had basically narrowed down to being a 50-50 chance of being a Voltorb or a good number. --Andy
^{P}_{K}^{M}_{N}(talk) 15:12, 25 April 2011 (UTC)- From my experience, the message pops up whenever there's only one numbered tile left in the row or column. Ztobor 14:06, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

- I think it's dependent on what the chance is, based on what tiles are already uncovered. I haven't played in a while, but if I remember correctly that message came up most often when I was uncovering a tile which I had basically narrowed down to being a 50-50 chance of being a Voltorb or a good number. --Andy

## Easier way?

Is it not much simpler to say that if the number of voltorbs and the total of the tiles equal 5, the row is automatically dead, instead of incorporating all of this algebra? Or is this strategy not even mentioned and I didn't notice because I couldn't understand the algebraic part? Frenchhorn 01:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

## Improved voltorb flip calculator

It seems that the go-to calculator for this is at http://esper.vacau.com/voltorb/ While it's kinda nice, I'd really like something more robust. That calculator only does some basic probability calculations, which works for the most part, but I've been able to rule out spaces or find x2 or x3 spaces that the calculator ignored or got wrong. It does happen on a fairly regular basis. By adding even some simple checks to the program, I think it could be greatly improved. And my big goal is to possibly make it perfect (or very close to perfect) using linear algebra concepts.

The reason I'm adding this is because I want to somehow get in contact with whoever wrote the calculator at http://esper.vacau.com/voltorb/ and collaborate with them to improve on it. I don't know if using linear algebra with this would even make sense, but it seems like it would be appropriate for this kind of game.

Unfortunately, since I'm super busy with classes right now, I can't dive into this project until the summer. I'm posting this now to see if I can at least get the ball rolling.

RevelationOrange 05:12, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Check out this Voltorb Flip Solver/Calculator that I made. It should be as perfect as possible. :) Voltorb Flip Solver --Masky (talk) 12:51, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

- Masky, your calculator has made the game fun for me for the first time in my life. However, would it be possible for you to clear the text boxes when the Reset button is clicked? Pokegen master (talk) 01:46, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

## Exact Coin payouts

Basically, because only x2 and x3 exist, the exact Coin payouts are rather limited. Assuming a maximum payout of no more than 6000, 49 different payouts are possible. They have to be confirmed for higher levels, but on lower levels it looks like each level has 5 different possible payouts (this doesn't work on levels 6+ any more). These exact payouts can clear up the vague table we currently have and also help figure out the solution in a few weird cases where due to the level, there can only be a 2 left or similar restraints. Knowing which number of value fields can appear on a given level might also be helpful (and is definitely an information that should be on the page).

Unfortunately, I can't currently test and confirm the results and the level they're associated to for higher levels, but I made a table of all possible results including the level they appear on for levels up to 6 (incomplete for 5 and above):

value fields | Coin total | Level | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 24 | 1 | |||||||

3 | 3 | 3 | 27 | 1 | ||||||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 32 | 1 | ||||||

2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 36 | 1 | |||||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 48 | 1 | ||||||

2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 54 | 2 | |||||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 64 | 2 | |||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 72 | 2 | ||||||

3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 81 | 2 | |||||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 96 | 2 | |||||

2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 108 | 3 | ||||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 128 | 3 | ||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 144 | 3 | |||||

2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 162 | 3 | ||||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 192 | 3 | ||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 216 | 4 | |||||

3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 243 | 4 | ||||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 256 | 4 | |||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 288 | 4 | ||||

2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 324 | 4 | |||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 384 | 5 | |||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 432 | |||||

2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 486 | 5 | |||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 512 | 5 | ||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 576 | 5 | |||

2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 648 | 6 | ||||

3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 729 | 6 | |||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 768 | 6 | ||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 864 | ||||

2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 972 | 6 | ||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1024 | ||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 1152 | |||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1296 | ||||

2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1458 | |||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 1536 | 7 | |

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1728 | 7 | ||

2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 1944 | ||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2048 | |

3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2187 | 8 | ||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2304 | 8 | |

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2592 | |||

2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2916 | 8 | |||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3072 | |

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3456 | 8 | |

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3888 | |||

2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4374 | ||||

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 4608 | |

2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 5184 | ||

2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 5832 |

The second-to-last column is the payout, the last is the level where this payout can occur, the other columns are the value fields which yield this payout. Help in filling this out is appreciated. The last few rows are probably unreachable, if the 5 payouts per level holds more or less true, the last 6-8 rows can't happen and the maximum payout overall is 2592+. Some more data on higher levels can probably clear everything up.

Scenia (talk) 10:41, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

- Woah, big table. I'd think that, if it goes to the article, it would have to be cut down (maybe into four columns; 2-count, 3-count, score, and level).
- I can confirm 432 on level 5 (got it in two different occasions).
- Further research (which I am trying to preform right now) would also figure out the distribution of Voltorbs and Ones for each level, but I can already say it doesn't fall neatly into categories like the Twos and Threes do. Might also end up loading my save into an emu and hacking the level to remain constant to research the larger levels, but I don't know yet. --TruePikachu (talk) 22:55, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
- More research done, Voltorb and One count is also tied to the layout (in other words, the layout specifies how many of _every_ card there is, not just Twos and Threes). All the L1 layouts have 6 Voltorbs, L2s have 7, L3s have 8. The L4 216 and 243 have 8, the L4 256, 288, and 324 have 10. All the L5 layouts I've confirmed (384, 432, 486, 512, and 576) have 10, and the only L6 I got (729, which I got twice) had 10 as well. --TruePikachu (talk) 01:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

## Payout?

I got 648 coins in Lv. 6, so I am not sure if these intervals are correct. Eridanus (talk) 17:48, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

- they're not, see the talk just above yours where we're working on figuring out the exact ranges before we update the main post.Scenia (talk) 01:25, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

## Voltorb amount pattern

Seems like Level 1 has 6 Voltorbs, Level 2 has 7, 3 and 4 has 8, and level 5+ has 10.

I notice this as Level 1 has some 0 voltorb rows and columns. Also notice this when I was watching a video on Youtube.

I have not confirm this myself yet. Any idea ? --An7 (talk) 07:43, 12 July 2018 (UTC)