Talk:Skeledirge (Pokémon)

Regarding Skeledirge's inspirations

Because this keeps going back and forth i want to mention why i think some of the origin ideas user Toucannon733 put on the page don't fit Skeledirge at all (and why i think some of their removals are really weird):

• Cocollona: So from what i've gathered, the Cocollona is a crocodile with butterfly wings (which Skeledirge doesn't have) who was once the ghost of a nun. I see why it's tempting to compare Skeledirge to Cocollona because "ghost crocodile", but idk. There doesn't seem to be any more connection between the two for reasons i've mentioned (no butterfly wings, also Skeledirge is a singer, not a nun).
• Lizard of Magdalena: From my research this is a story about: a giant people-eating lizard who terrorized a small town but was eventually killed by being tricked into eating gunpowder and exploded. Again, like, why was this mentioned? Was it because gunpowder and that Skeledirge is a Fire type? Like... no? The connection just isn't there, Skeledirge doesn't eat people nor does it learn explosion moves.
• Regarding mariachi/rock music: How many rockers do you see wear suits regularly? Plus I don't see how mariachi can't be an inspiration, given Crocalor's appearance and JP name, and Skeledirge's suited look resembling the attire. The Dia de Muertos inspiration helps too.

To close, I just want to say i appreciate user Toucannon733's edits to Bulbapedia (the one they made for Crocalor connecting it to Mona de Pascua is actually really good), but personally i think they need to rein back a little bit on trying to connect every Gen 9 mon to every single possible Spanish idea. I know it's weird coming from Gen 8 where almost every mon is British in origin, but not every Gen 9 mon has to have an explicitly Spanish origin, and that's okay. Sometimes they're based on Iberia in general; sometimes they're based on the greater Mediterranean area like Greece and Egypt; sometimes they're just based on Latin America which speak Spanish and Portuguese; and sometimes they're just based on silly jokes the staff thought of that day (like how Toedscool and Toedscruel were based on Japanese puns). Plus it's not like there's no precedent for this kind of design philosophy either (kangaroos in Japan, pandas in France, koalas and orangutans in Hawaii, etc).

Anzasquiddles (talk) 03:27, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi! First of all, thank you so much for your kind words and the opportunity to talk and write about all of this. Also, sorry if I could have been a little bit rough or harsh, I feel bad for it. Now, in regard of the questions:

- About the Cocollona and the Lagarto de la Malena: I know they're not the main inspiration for Skeledirge, but I see really possible for them to have influenced the idea. One is a ghost crocodile (I mean, it has to be a big coincidence to have a Ghost crocodile Pokémon just introduced in Paldea, a region based on the Iberian Peninsula, which have a really known myth about a ghost crocodile, and for it not to be influenced by that idea at all) and the other is a legendary crocodile (because it is said the legend was originated by a crocodile. All the main sources about the Lagarto de la Malena are in spanish, so I don't really know how it is talked by english sources) that is said to have being killed with gunpowder in some versions of the tale, but in others by setting it on fire. So, Spain has various legends about mythological crocodiles related to ghosts and fire (the Drac the na coca is also related to it. In the Sant Sebastià festival, a giant fire-breathing crocodile that represents the Drac is brought up to fire wood and other things). They may not be the main inspirations (except for the Drac de na coca, I really think Skeledirge is strongly based on it), but I do think they definitely took part on the desing process for the Pokémon, and I not see the bad thing about superficially mentioning them. I think it all makes sense.

- About the mariachi inspiration: yeah, you may be right. I just didn't see the ressemblence to a mariachi.

Now, about other issues I'd like to talk:

- I think the iberian inspirations are a little "understimated" (if that's the word). For example, I could really see why they decided to name Garganacl after El Gargantúa. It has a french origin, yeah, but El Gargantúa is a separated basque giant creature. So, why not take inspiration (at least, for the name) from a giant Iberian mythological creature for a Pokémon that stands out for being a giant? I know that, just like with Alola, whose designs take inspiration not only from Hawaii, but also from other archipielagos and islands (Komala and Australia, Oricorio and the Galapagos, Passimian and Madagascar, etc.), Paldea serves as a Mediterranean region in general (Garganacl and some hebrew countries, Mabosstiff and Italy, Espathra/Rabsca and Egypt, Arboliva has a little bit of Greece, etc.), but that doesn't mean some Iberian possible inspo should automatically be discarded.

Lastly, thank you again for letting me say all of this. And also thank you for all the work you're doing for the site; in due course, I took a look at your contributions and you make a great work. I will be really happy to help again everytime I can in the future, I have some new things to write, and I hope my contributions will be well received and helpful to the community. Toucannon733 (talk) 02:20, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply! Yeah, i've come to realize maybe i was too harsh in dismissing your arguments, i apologize. I do think it's great to have some perspectives from people who are actually from Iberia, and although i will still strike out any origin arguments i find too much of a stretch, i'll try to be more open to suggestions (eg. i found your "Crocalor's nest is based on the Mona de Pascua" argument from a few months back to be really good).

Your contributions are appreciated as well, cheers! Anzasquiddles (talk) 03:31, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I know this message is fairly old, but I'd like to actually disagree with what's said in your arguments. I believe people been overfocusing on the logic that some Pokémon are strictly inspired by the real world part of the region they're in (or somewhere near), and that it has been diluting the quality of the theories when causing people to find stretches that are convenient in this aspect over more likely theories.

I think you claiming that Garganacl is named after "El Gargantúa" over simply "gargantuan" is a clear example of this and how this overthinking can help stray from more likely theories. El Gargantúa has literally nothing to do with Garganacl, yet you consider it over the simple fact that it's a nearby country rather than it having any strong relation to the Pokémon's trait. I think this gets significantly incoherent once you start expanding it over broader and broader criteria like "Mediterrean region" - in the case of Espathra/Rabsca being Egyptian and Garganacl being Hebrew - or "Islands/archipelagos" - in the case of the Alola examples you give.

To illustrate why I think this line of reasoning is a disservice, I want to illustrate a point for the latter: you give some counter-examples regarding Alola yourself about some Pokémon that aren't in Hawaii while trying to justify them as being part of islands and archipelagos you deem similar, yet you conveniently leave out other examples like Alolan Vulpix/Ninetales (arctic fox), Drampa (Chinese dragon), Lycanroc (wolves) and Stuffull/Bewear (red panda). Every region has a handful of examples like these that can be brought up.

We don't know which designs were previously scraped and are being recycled nor if the addition was rushed, so assuming every Pokémon has obnoxiously extensive amount of research on them just so they are obligatory references to the real region counterpart (or something similar that requires two-three logical jumps) is highly misleading. Yes, there are plenty of Pokémon that are inspired by the real region, however it also feels necessary to acknowledge that this may not be the case sometimes instead of stretching the theories to conform to confirmation bias.

That being said, as a side note, I want to point out a clear reference to Spain that you dismissed for some reason. I'm unsure as to why you're claiming that Arboliva has Greek inspirations given that Spain and Portugal are the biggest producers of olives in the world and heavily associated with it, so claiming it has to do with a type of Greek olive instead just due a slightly purple hue that is mainly an aesthetic decision is certainly strange.

ExLight (talk) 13:28, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Going back a bit on the Skeledirge topic. I noticed someone once edited about it possibly being based on a B-stage and I can definitely see it, specially with the unusual head shape, the bright colored "titles" on its face, and with its hair acting as pyrotechnical effects. Additionally, the Japanese name origin proposes a Laúd, and Skeledirge's head shape definitely shares some semblance to it. I'd appreciate a bit more of discussion over these potential inspirations.

ExLight (talk) 22:41, 22 July 2025 (UTC)