Talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver Spaceworld '97 demo
It'd probably be a good idea to avoid directly attaching the English names given to Pokémon in the final release of Gold and Silver to the ones found in this prototype. It's a bit misleading to call Hanamogura "prototype Bayleef" given how little they resemble one another, and while people have informally described Bōbō as "prototype Noctowl" it's clear they didn't have much laid down for what Hōhō would evolve into at this stage beyond "a bigger owl" - the sprite is visibly lacking in detail, and Noctowl didn't even retain the single foot they did have at this point. (Manbō1 is so early in development it doesn't even have a name yet.) ThomasWinwood (talk) 22:12, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
- I have a hidden edit note in that section of the page that tells those who help edit the page to NOT speculate what a Pokémon's translated name may have been. :) Frozen Fennec 22:17, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
- Thomas Winwood, I respectfully strongly disagree. I think that if a Pokemon clearly fits the same evolutionary purpose as a Pokemon which appeared in Gold and Silver, it is essentially a "prototype" version of that Pokemon. Besides, where do we draw the line? Hoothoot looks similar, but has slight differences, Magby more so, Pichu more so... and so on. That being said, I'd happily let up on Mantine. --celadonk (talk) 21:50, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
- Adding on... an alternative would be to simply name each Pokemon by their Japanese name regardless of what they translate to in the final games, but I strongly advise against that. --celadonk (talk) 21:54, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
- One more comment... I think everyone was thinking of this anyways but we shouldn't refer to Nameru, Jaranra, Riifi, and Baririna as Lickilicky, Tangrowth, Leafeon, and Mime Jr. respectively, as those were Pokemon that weren't introduced until after Gen 2. Although we should probably make some reference to them in the trivia sections. --celadonk (talk) 22:13, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
- I actually agree with ThomasWinwood on that- we can hardly call Hanamogura a prototype Bayleef when it doesn't share any semblance of design or even its name with Bayleef. Given its lack of similarity to Chikorita and Meganium, it could very well be the remains of an unused grass starter line that started to be replaced before the demo. We wouldn't call Honoguma a prototype Cyndaquil and Kurusu a prototype Totodile. The best approach may be to treat any pokemon who does not share its name or a closely similar design with an existing pokemon as its own separate entity. So I would call Hanamogura and Bōbō by their Japanese names and mention somewhere in their info that Bayleef and Noctowl replaced them in the final version, much like I would also reference the pokemon that later took the intended roles for Nameru, Jaranra, Riifi and Baririna. I mean it's the same thing, they were replaced by a different design, just that for Hanamogura and Bōbō, it took less time for them to do so. Yoriven (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
- At the very least, I would call Hanamogura, Haneei, and Mitsuboshi by their Japanese names. We don't even have confirmation that Ledyba evolves into Mitsuboshi. It might be Ledian, but there is no hard evidence for it. Yoriven (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
- I still think that evolutionary relatives that have a parallel in the final game should be referred to as prototype versions of their final counterpart, but I suppose I'm outnumbered. However, I do think there was something in the code about Ledyba and Ledian's evolution simply being dummied out rather than removed entirely; specifically, that it would evolve into proto-Ledian at level 18. I can double check, though. --celadonk (talk) 18:52, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
- As I recall, all of the evolution data for pokemon in the demo area was just straight up removed. That's why there was a lot of debate over whether or not Mitsuboshi was an evolution or possibly a counterpart- the data isn't dummied out, it's just not even there. But a good place to ask would be The Cutting Room Floor's Discord since people there seem to understand the details better than I do. Yoriven (talk) 20:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
- I still think that evolutionary relatives that have a parallel in the final game should be referred to as prototype versions of their final counterpart, but I suppose I'm outnumbered. However, I do think there was something in the code about Ledyba and Ledian's evolution simply being dummied out rather than removed entirely; specifically, that it would evolve into proto-Ledian at level 18. I can double check, though. --celadonk (talk) 18:52, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
- At the very least, I would call Hanamogura, Haneei, and Mitsuboshi by their Japanese names. We don't even have confirmation that Ledyba evolves into Mitsuboshi. It might be Ledian, but there is no hard evidence for it. Yoriven (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
- I actually agree with ThomasWinwood on that- we can hardly call Hanamogura a prototype Bayleef when it doesn't share any semblance of design or even its name with Bayleef. Given its lack of similarity to Chikorita and Meganium, it could very well be the remains of an unused grass starter line that started to be replaced before the demo. We wouldn't call Honoguma a prototype Cyndaquil and Kurusu a prototype Totodile. The best approach may be to treat any pokemon who does not share its name or a closely similar design with an existing pokemon as its own separate entity. So I would call Hanamogura and Bōbō by their Japanese names and mention somewhere in their info that Bayleef and Noctowl replaced them in the final version, much like I would also reference the pokemon that later took the intended roles for Nameru, Jaranra, Riifi and Baririna. I mean it's the same thing, they were replaced by a different design, just that for Hanamogura and Bōbō, it took less time for them to do so. Yoriven (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
- One more comment... I think everyone was thinking of this anyways but we shouldn't refer to Nameru, Jaranra, Riifi, and Baririna as Lickilicky, Tangrowth, Leafeon, and Mime Jr. respectively, as those were Pokemon that weren't introduced until after Gen 2. Although we should probably make some reference to them in the trivia sections. --celadonk (talk) 22:13, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
- Adding on... an alternative would be to simply name each Pokemon by their Japanese name regardless of what they translate to in the final games, but I strongly advise against that. --celadonk (talk) 21:54, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Move?
Congrats to you guys Frozen Fennec and Celadonkey, you finally made it, good job! Anyway, I believe it should probably be moved to include 1997, since apparently another later build was presented at 1999 Spaceworld!? Nescientist (talk) 16:38, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks a bunch, waited so long to be able to move these pages.~ Will be looking into and discussing this more with other admins to see what their opinions are for this. Could either end up moving the demos to one page or it could be two pages as suggested if there is more than enough content for it. Thanks for asking about it. ^_^ Frozen Fennec 16:45, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi
Hello there! I'm new, but I'm actually a big fan of the demos, and I can assist with adding new sprites and maps based off the demos! Can I at least have permission to edit this page? Thanks! --Meanshape101 (talk) 08:35, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- The page is protected only from new users with few contributions, as a counter-vandalism measure (which this page is considered very susceptible to).
- Unfortunately, your account currently matches these criteria. I can guarantee, if you keep making constructive edits to other parts of the wiki, you will be able to edit this page in no time! :) Nescientist (talk) 10:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
- How about that? I upload the files, and someone help me edit?
- Thanks!
Meanshape101 (talk) 00:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
"Space World": one word or two?
The name of this article has been bugging me for the longest time. Why do we insist on referring to the event as "Spaceworld", when it's typically formatted as two words ("Space World")? After making numerous edits regarding this incorrect formatting, I've finally made a proposal for us to decide on what to call it.
First, let's take a look at the foremost important references to the name - official mentions of the event by Nintendo:
- A 1995 issue of Nintendo Power refers to a former part of the event, Famicom Space World, as such in an article about the then-upcoming Shoshinkai 1995, providing official support for the two-words format.
- Looking at the official site for Space World '97, every instance of the event's name is English is in all caps ("NINTENDO SPACEWORLD '97"), which could be interpreted as either one word or two with CamelCase, and is consistent with the Japanese name of the event, "任天堂スペースワールド".
- The Japanese format, without a space between words, is much like the Pokémon remakes. The official Japanese trademark names of FireRed and LeafGreen, whose international names use CamelCase, format them as one word without CamelCase. HeartGold and SoulSilver also use CamelCase internationally, while Omega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, Brilliant Diamond, and Shining Pearl format them as two words.
- An Iwata Asks interview about The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D mentions the 1997 event, formatting it unambiguously as two words.
- While this is somewhat unrelated, "Indie World", a similarly-named showcase, formats its name as two words on both the English and Japanese official sites, as well as the Japanese Twitter/X account.
Next, let's see how the other two NIWA wikis on series that have significant prevalence in Space World events refer to the event:
- Super Mario Wiki mainly uses either two words, (e.g. "[Super Mario 128] was first shown as a tech demo at Space World 2000") with CamelCase less frequently (e.g. "A music file heard in the original SpaceWorld showing [...]"). The only instance I found of "Spaceworld" outside of a citation was in the context of Famicom Space World.
- Zelda Wiki is more iffy on how it formats the name, but it most frequently formats it with CamelCase (e.g. "SpaceWorld 2000 GameCube Tech Demo"), with two words less frequently (e.g. "Zelda 64 Space World 1995 Tech Demo"). There's a few instances of "Spaceworld" outside of citations, but, funnily enough, the name is also usually formatted with CamelCase somewhere else on these articles (e.g. "[The GameCube was revealed] the day before Nintendo's Space World 2000 exposition. [...] At Spaceworld 2001 [...]", with both in the same paragraph).
All in all, I believe that the current name of this page, as well as any other mention of the event on Bulbapedia, uses an incorrect format for the event's name, and it should be corrected - either to "Space World" or "SpaceWorld" - starting with moving this article to a more-correct name. Does anyone else agree or disagree on this? Keegster2 (Howl at me) 23:27, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
- Considering we already have an article that treats it as two separate words, I'm all for moving it.--ForceFire 05:37, 27 January 2025 (UTC)