User talk:Mikoro/Double Battle Strategies (Part 2)

From Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia.
Jump to navigationJump to search

Comments (both parts)

While there are some strategies that may be useful and need only a little improvement (I might edit them later), a huge majority of them have many flaws and shouldn't be used at all.

First, many Pokémon have badly chosen moves. A good example is the Empoleon paired with Simisear: It has three Water-type attacks which makes it easy to counter, Steel is a bad type offensively, Hydro Cannon and its variations shouldn't be used at all, and it has a physical move which is just pointless. A much better Empoleon would have Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Grass Knot and Hidden Power (Electric)/Protect. Also, some individual move choices have superior alternatives. Chip Away, Mega Punch, Slash, Take Down and Crush Claw should always be replaced with Return. Electro Ball should never be used, all Pokémon that can learn it learn Thunderbolt. Rollout is inferior to Rock Slide. Sleep Talk should be used instead of Snore.

Role Play is often not worth using. Why wouldn't the Lucario paired with Smeargle just use Agility? Why wouldn't the Primeape paired with Absol just use Focus Energy? Why wouldn't the Blaziken paired with Emboar just use Swords Dance?

Smeargle should never be a pure attacker. Without any stat boosts, even its strongest attacks are riculously weak. Even with a Belly Drum boost it's weaker than some fully evolved Pokémon with a Swords Dance boost. Also, Smeargle is OHKOed by almost every attack and it's actually a relatively slow Pokémon.

Also, for some reason none of your weather strategies don't have a Pokémon with Drought, Drizzle, etc., which would be much more convenient than wasting a turn for using a weather changing attack.

There are also some factual errors: Defiant isn't activated by your ally's moves, Bulk Up doesn't make Storm Throw weaker, and Pokémon with Skull Bash or Mimic cannot learn them anymore.--Den Zen 15:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

A few things. For the Pokémon that have moves impossible to learn prior to Generation I, it is still possible for them to have them if they are transferred to Black 2 and White 2. Also, I have tested all of these strategies. Defiant is activated by ally attacks, and the Defense increase from Bulk Up does weaken damage taken from Storm Throw. Smeargle can also actually turn out okay with some EV training. Finally, most Pokémon with Drought, Drizzle, etc. cannot learn all of the moves that can make the most out of the weather strategies, so it is worth taking one turn to get the weather into effect. I am happy that you have committed your time to take a look at my thoughts and ideas, but openly (and publicly, not to mention) criticizing them counterpoises that. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 02:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Please do not make any personal changes to my page without asking me first. As an administrator, you should know this better than I do.
Um, you say on the part 1 page that " feel free to modify these combinations any way you want", that's why I said I might improve some of them. I haven't tested Defiant since BW, so it might have changed, but I'm 100% sure that critical hits ignore defense boosts. And here's proof that with the exception of Belly Drum/Extreme Speed Smeargle, Smeargle shouldn't have attacking sets:
252+ Atk Skill Link Smeargle Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 260-320 (72.62 - 89.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So Adamant Smeargle with maxed EVs cannot OHKO a Dragon/Ground-type Pokémon with only 4 HP Evs with an Ice-type attack with a power of 125, even with Stealth Rock damage. In comparision, a Modest Tauros will always OHKO the same Garchomp after SR damage with a weaker Ice-type attack:
252+ SpA Sheer Force Tauros Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 340-404 (94.97 - 112.84%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
And if Tauros is holding a Life Orb (which doesn't damage it), it can do the same with a Timid (so that it outspeeds Garchomp) nature without Stealth Rocks.
Finally, here's one of my many Double Battle strategies. This one placed me 90th of 3022 competitors in 2012 Spring Friendly (you can check it from the Global Link site if you have an account there):

First, Tornadus uses Tailwind and Medicham uses Gravity. Now your team's Speed is doubled for the next three turns and all moves' accuracy is boosted by 66.7% for the next four turns. This means that my Pokémon outspeed all non-Scarfed Pokémon and every move has a 100% accuracy, except for Dynamic Punch whose accuracy is 83.3%. So Durant's Hustle has no drawbacks and when combined with Choice Band, Durant's attacks deal 2.25× damage. In addition all of Nidoking's attacks have perfect accuracy, its Earth Power can now hit Flying/Levitating Pokémon, most notably Wash Rotom. Also, both Life Orb and Sheer Force boost all of its attacks, yet it's not damaged by Life Orb.--Den Zen 12:59, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
I see your logic. But, I don't know what your talking about. I tested the Primeape/Pinsir combo and Bulk Up did in fact limit the damage from Storm Throw. Also, when I said "feel free to edit these any way you want", I meant that you can change whatever you want when using the strategies. I didn't mean edit them right from the page. And by the way, do you know how to lock a userpage? I can't figure out how to do it through my preferences. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 13:39, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
...he probably meant the fact that critical hits ignore user's (Special) Attack's drops and target's (Special) Defense's boosts, and since Storm Throw always lands a critical hit (bar Lucky Chant and such)... Also, you can't lock your userpage, only admins can lock pages as far as I know. Uploader (talk) 13:44, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Well I first found all of these strategies useful when I conceived them. Also, like my main userpage says, you're entitled to your own opinion, but I just don't think it's really nice to be criticizing me publicly. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 13:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
It's more like giving constructive feedback than criticizing, but I'm sorry if I sound rude or blunt. Oh, and I forgot to reply about Mimic and Skull Bash: Skull Bash is only learnable in Gen I but you can't transfer Pokémon from Gen II to Gen III. And those Pokémon with Mimic can't have their Hidden Ability in the same moveset. But let's not continue this discussion too long since it's not related to the wiki.
Only admins can protect pages. Remember that if I protect your pages, then you can't edit them yourself. If that's okay, I can protect them.--Den Zen 14:09, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Well, thanks for apologizing. I always thought it was possible to transfer Pokémon from Generations I to II and II to III, but I guess I was wrong. And no, please don't protect my pages if I won't be able to edit them. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 16:57, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
By the way, Dennou, I forgot to mention that Pokémon do not have to be transferred through all of the generations to be attainable in Black 2 and White 2. Pokémon from Generations I and II can be transferred straight to Generation IV and then Generation V, so it is possible to have Pokémon with Skull Bash and Mimic as TM moves in the Generation V games. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 16:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Where did you hear that? Generation I and Generation II are completely, absolutely incompatible with next Generations. There's no way whatsoever to transfer them. Uploader (talk) 17:09, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, how the hell could Game Boy and DS even interact??--Den Zen 17:17, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
My mistake; I forgot that it's only the Generation III games that are compatible with Pal Park in Genereation IV. the great MIKORO (talk to me) 18:39, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
reset I've noticed that the Swampert is illegal for G5, because Damp Mudkip has been released only as a male, and both Counter and Mirror Coat are egg moves (the former actually requires chain breeding), and in G5, only mother can pass down Hidden Ability. Uploader (talk) 16:03, 26 November 2013 (UTC)