Talk:SM139

Worldwide reception

Correct me if I'm wrong, this page has a meaningless comparison between the Alola Islands and the Orange Islands, we have episodes that talk about the political moment in Japan (which has zero influence on the anime), we have episodes that compare random events with references random from other anime, we have the reception of the episode of Porygon.

Explain to me then how the way POKEMON COMPANY, FRANCHISE CREATORS, GLOBAL CELEBRITIES, OR THE WORLD MIDIA received this episode doesn't matter? We're not talking about John Doe's reception, we're talking about Star Trek's Captain Kirk, about the company that works with these characters and one of the world's largest news companies. We're talking about the actress who gives voice to this character for over a decade. ( https://twitter.com/TheVeronicaT/status/1173282243042611200 )or from Rica Matsumoto herself. (https://twitter.com/rica_matsumoto3/status/1173218281341116416 )

Talking about the most popular episode of the franchise in a long, long time. Isn't that what the Trivia section is for? Hikaru Wazana (talk) 12:21, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

1) The comparison between Alola and the Orange Islands isn't meaningless. Those are the only instances where Ash has won a Pokémon League in the anime. To minimize the significance of such a fact like you just did is beyond me. It is also important to note the distinction between those two regions: the Alola League originated from the games whilst the Orange League is anime-original. So in essence, Ash's Alola League victory is a whole lot more official than his Orange League victory.

2) You're going to have to clarify what you mean by "the political moment in Japan". Did you mean to say "political movement"? Or is it something else?

3) Cross-anime references are important to note because the Pokémon anime is, you know, an anime too. Check the link if you don't believe me.

4) EP038 is a very special exception because of the health effects that put thousands of children at risk. The reaction to that is infinitely more important than the jubilation of some celebrities on social media. Moreover, not mentioning real-world events is excepted for all the other banned episodes because said real-world events profoundly affected the production and airing of these episodes beforehand. If the reactions of this episode caused it to be banned, then yes, it would be worth mentioning. But what you mentioned are simply reactions of jubilation. That's nothing to note here. After all, as I mentioned before on my talk page, we don't have any content about the reaction to XY131, and yes, Hikaru, it's the same thing as this case. Extensive news coverage, widespread social media reactions, all revolving around a Pokémon League Conference outcome? And yet, I don't see anything like that on the XY131 episode article.

P.S.: This is by no means "the most popular episode of the franchise in a long, long time". I've also seen boatloads of people who are disappointed and even upset by the outcome, for various reasons. You shouldn't jump into talk pages assuming things like this.

GrammarFreak01 (talk) 19:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

OK, let's go....

Political moment.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon:_Let%27s_Go,_Pikachu!_and_Let%27s_Go,_Eevee!

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Sun_%26_Moon_series

What does the Heisei period influence in the anime or games?

References, well, let's see. It's the kind of thing that needs confirmation, I mean, who makes sure the producers had that reference in mind? Even often it is a product for children who probably would not even recognize such things?

Regions, well, Unova had an archipelago too. All other points have already been used in some way in the anime, so it's not new.

And the differences, well it's not obvious to every person who watched the anime from the beginning what are the differences?

And both tournaments are important, Orange League is a regional championship and Alola League is the "state" championship. Like Liberators for Soccer or MLS, maybe.

You compare an end of an arc that changes nothing in the Ash's cycle with one that now changes a lot. The anime has entered an unprecedented point, which probably changes a lot. As good as it is, we have TWO VOICE ACTRESS from Ash making quotes about it. We have Hollywood actors talking about it and the anime's own social network celebrating the event and a major game producer celebrating this. Was there something like that in the episode of XY that you talk about?

Just to wrap up I leave this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh-usysKPWg&t=510s Mainly because I see that it's a lost discussion. Hikaru Wazana (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, at the very least some of the animation team seemed to talk badly about XY131 based on this: https://twitter.com/aoshi11/status/766241482881638400 Of course, they acted as though that's not notable simply because it was one person out of several on the team and individual opinions (which makes little sense, since I thought people who worked on the show had more stake to their opinion on these things than the fans?). Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 03:08, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, an admin removed all of that stuff, so it's clearly not notable. Deal with it. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:17, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

" Deal with it." hmm, ok. Forget this. I won't bother anymore. Hikaru Wazana (talk) 03:21, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Good. Also, while we're at it, please brush up on your indenting skills. The way you're indenting this discussion is leaving it disorganized and I have to reorganize everything. Thank you. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:45, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

I only have one thing to say regarding the argument of "a mod removed it, so deal with it". So, by that logic, if a mod decides to just vandalize, say, Ash's article and replace its content with stuff like "I love porn" or something along those lines, we should let the mod do it and "deal with" the fact that the mod decided to do that simply because it's a mod who did it, even if it goes against the rules? After all, technically, that would mean mods are allowed to vandalize articles to their very whim and get away with it simply because of their authority. You might want to rethink your view on how an edit or removal is justified simply because a mod did it. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 13:22, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

This conversation is taking a very forum turn, can we please remove it. Mods and Admins are not interchangeable positions, Admins are put there to maintain the integrity of the page, so their removal has much more weight, should they do such vandalizing then they wouldn't be admins. It's not notable to this article, doesn't mean it's not notable as a whole it just does not have placement here, no further discussions on this talk page regarding it please Azure/ChromeVoid42 (talk) 13:40, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

(resetting indent)I removed it because if negative reception isn't notable, then positive reception isn't notable as well. People say good and bad things about a lot of episodes, we're not going to document every instance of someone spouting their opinion, regardless of who it is. Unless said reception actually has an impact on the franchise, it is just simply people saying stuff.--ForceFire 06:45, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

"we're not going to document every instance of someone spouting their opinion, regardless of who it is." Wouldn't the development staff be an exception considering they're, you know, directly responsible for the franchise existing? Last I checked, if it came directly from people actually involved in the creation of the franchise (writers, directors, voice actors, you name it), I think an exception can be made due to their having direct authority over it. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 11:38, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't even going to answer that discussion anymore, but I saw that new answers came up. It's not just the positive reception of the episode, it's how the anime staff themselves or the Pokémon Company dealt with the episode. My God, do you mean talking about Veronica Taylor's tribute is less notable than a meaningless comparison between the Orange League and the Alola League(No need to answer, I already know the answer)? Things like that discourage from contributing to the site, we have pages with a lot of trivia that adds nothing and when you have interesting information, it is forbidden to postHikaru Wazana (talk) 12:12, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Because they're opinions. Opinions isn't notable.--ForceFire 14:23, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Even if they come from people who directly worked for the anime? Wouldn't that make their opinions more notable? It would be like saying JK Rowling thinking Dumbledore is homosexual isn't notable due to being an opinion despite the fact that she wrote the Harry Potter books and by extension created Dumbledore in the first place. I'd understand opinions made by some crank on YouTube aren't notable, but come on! Aren't you going even a little too extreme with this "no opinions" enforcement? I'm pretty sure exceptions can be made regarding people directly involved in the anime's creation, especially when they directly relate to the anime itself. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 15:56, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

You guys seem to be forgetting what Force Fire just said earlier about the opinions and reception having a direct impact on the franchise or not... GrammarFreak01 (talk) 21:36, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Exactly. If it's just them saying "Ash should've won" without any further repercussion/controversy/whatever, then it's just the animators voicing their opinions.--ForceFire 04:55, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Want to know what also was ultimately opinion? Dumbledore being Gay, especially when in the books we had absolutely nothing pointing to him being that other than JK Rowling's own word, yet that still didn't stop people from claiming he's canonically gay just because she said it, despite it having no direct impact on the book franchise (by the time she said it, Deathly Hallows had already been released, so it's not like it could do anything to impact sales since the franchise was kaput anyways, not allowing for any further repercussions.). If that can be noted in a Harry Potter wiki article as if it were canon (and I don't even agree that Dumbledore is gay even with what JK Rowling said due to, again, being absolutely nothing indicating such. Even the whole Grindelwald thing just came across as Best Friends basically having a falling out, and being best friends does not necessarily mean being lovers), this most certainly is noteworthy. Besides, there's also a lot of evidence pointing to the Alola negative reception being the reason why they ultimately did the Alola league (especially when pre-release materials like CoroCoro's announcement for the anime strongly implied that Ash was not going to be pursuing his league goals at the time and that if anything he changed his goal to "graduate like never before"), so that's a direct impact the reception had on the show. Weedle Mchairybug (talk) 09:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

News flash: this isn't the Harry Potter Wikia. Pokémon has absolutely nothing to do with Harry Potter. And when we say "opinions and reception having a direct impact on the franchise or not", we mean something along the lines of EP038, where said opinions and reception cause the episode to no longer air and the entire anime to be rescheduled. That's noteworthy. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 09:27, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

About Counter

Despite the final Counter from Gladion's Lycanroc hitting Ash's, is it possible for Counter to be countered with the same move, even if it’s just anime physics?--CoolPokéGuy (Talk) 17:32, 26 February 2020 (UTC)