Talk:Gardenia (Masters)

Alteration

I've noticed a minor edit war over whether her design is altered to cover more of her midriff. It 100% is, with developer acknowledgement https://www.deviantart.com/dutchmail/art/Gardenia-Midriff-Censored-in-Pokemon-Masters-808542638 . I cannot help notice the admin reverting the change is only doing so because he had personal issue with the user who initially added this trivia. While this is understandable, we must keep in mind that mainspace is not a battleground (see WP:BATTLEGROUND on wikipedia) for personal disputes. Sincerest regards to everyone. --Jsmith28 (talk) 17:04, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

First of all, no. Her belly is not covered, the undershirt is just covering more of her chest ever so slightly. We can still see her belly and navel, which is the midriff. Secondly, do you have source that the person that uploaded that on deviantart is the original designer, because that is highly unlikely. And no where in its comment section does it have anyone claiming to be the designer. Thirdly, this has nothing to do with who added it. I removed it because they used the word "censored" when it technically isn't since, like I said, her midriff (belly) is still visible. Fourthly, we are not Wikipedia. They have their rules and we have ours, their rules should not dictate how we moderate Bulbapedia.--ForceFire 17:21, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Wow, look how incredibly aggressive you're responding. You've really demonstrated the toxic mentality I was referring to perfectly. That's terrible, my friend. This isn't conducive to positive editing of the encyclopedia. You're clearly taking this very personally and are demonstrating incredibly ill temperament for an administrator with an edit history of 12 years. Please, take a step back and a deep breath. I'm being completely sincere, not insulting at all. On to our actual discussion, you've a misunderstanding of what the "midriff" is - "the region of the front of the body between the chest and the waist" (Oxford languages). Only the pectoral area is the "chest," anything below it but above the pubic area is the midriff. That's precisely the area in question. I don't think you'll be convinced despite this being the objective truth because you've clearly dug in your heels and have responded in a manner unbecoming of an admin. Cheers. --Jsmith28 (talk) 17:57, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

And I'm certainly aware we're not WP. I was referring to the general idea that article mainspace is not a battleground for personal dispute. You're effectively disagreeing. --Jsmith28 (talk) 18:05, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Did this person really receive a block for his troubles here? I... don't think that's the best way to handle a disagreement over the definition of midriff, which by all accounts is distinct from and below the chest. --Duskdawn (talk) 18:40, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

(just to give you the benefit of the doubt) The midriff (that is, the belly) is still exposed though, so it's not really "censored". And what is actually covered doesn't really extend that far down, so it still only goes down to around the chest area.--ForceFire 18:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't support adding the word "censored" unless a reliable source shows the change was made to censor (it could be a mistake, for all we know). I think the discussion here is whether more of her "midriff" was covered or more of her "chest" was covered. I don't think anyone is saying her entire midriff was covered. I think we can agree that her shirt was lengthened downward. So was it the chest or the midriff that received more area in question? Based on a musculoskeletal perspective, the area in question contains abdominal muscles, not pectoral muscles, and the former is synonymous with the midriff while the latter is synonymous with the chest. That is why I firmly believe "midriff," not "chest," is the correct word use. --Duskdawn (talk) 19:04, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Based on the (now-blocked) user's objective, reliable sources, I will update the terminology accordingly. --Duskdawn (talk) 19:49, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't think it was lengthened enough to even cover a smidge of her belly, hence why I think it's still covering the chest area. I changed to to the more genral torso, that should be a good compromise.--ForceFire 06:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Do you have a source for the claim that the belly is only the navel area? It's a little curious to me that you remain so sure of this matter but haven't provided a source to better educate I, any lurkers, and the blocked user to understand why, even though many contrary sources have been presented here and in the edit history. --Duskdawn (talk) 17:30, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Belly as in her stomach/abdomen area. Compare the official art to a similarly posed model/art, I don't see it being that much longer to the point of covering her belly.--ForceFire 17:52, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Undershirt Trivium

I almost hate to even bring this back up but, I couldn't help but notice Gardenia's design in BDSP also features the same change to her undershirt. If the trivium is still considered worth keeping in, I feel like it should be updated to mention that this change is now seen in the core series. Landfish7 07:48, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

I think the BDSP artwork as a far clearer evidence that the shirt is lengthened, as opposed to the Masters model, where you can barely see the change. I think the trivium should be updated.--ForceFire 07:59, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

I reckon it is fairly noticable on the Master model. I didn’t notice it at first, but it’s hard to unsee now.--MissDelibirda (talk) 08:01, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

The BDSP art makes it more obvious with the shirt extending below the shawl thing she wears. (Admittedly, her arm is raised, but yeah) Either way I went ahead and updated the article. Landfish7 08:08, 26 June 2022 (UTC)