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Talk:EP011

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How Ash got Charmander.

I was thinking of adding trivia "This is the only episode where Ash steals a Pokémon", but I wanna discuss it on the talk page first. In my opinion he did steal it.

Yeah, of course the trainer is so damn selfish, but still. Even if the trainer didn't really care about the Charmander it still belonged to him. So technically Ash is stealing it since he got it without the trainer's permission.

But there could be objections to that trivia that Ash stole the Pokémon. So I wanna discuss this. TheBlazikenMaster 01:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

This was probably a later retcon, but Dawn couldn't capture Pikachu because it was already imprinted (or something) with Ash's Poké Ball. So I assume that Damien just released Charmander, told it that he'd come back, and walked off so he could have more space for Pokémon. That's why Charmander could go into Ash's Poké Ball. TTEchidna 02:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with TTEchidna, Most likely the Trainer released it and said that he'd come back for it. I mean, even IF you don't count what happened when Dawn tried to capture Pikachu, it was implied in that very episode that he did actually release it. Damian, when Shouting "Charmander, Return" used the exact same animation as someone who is catching a pokemon, and the way to call back a pokemon is through that Laser that's emitted from the Button on the Pokeball, thus implying that he actually released the Charmander from it's pokeball (most likely with the Blue beam option that was used in D/P.).
Weedle Mchairybug 15:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)Weedle_McHairybug

Time to set things straight.

Kenji-girl, the only reason why I had even set the Misty thing in there in the first place was as a compromise (Ash would keep his "Episode focused" stub in this article, even if it was truly undeserved.). I mean, the only thing Ash did in that episode was capture Charmander, and arguably, the only true focus on the episode was Brock. People insisted it should be kept, I tried to tell them that, considering how "A Shield with a Twist" never counted as a Jessie-focused Episode despite her having WON her second ribbon in Sinnoh, that this doesn't count either. Misty, BTW, DID some things in that episode (and she definitely wasn't doing "jack-squat", since, really, she also helped with the Charmander thing, she also told them that they should let Charmander decide and not force it to come with, even if it was better to come with than wait for Damian, AND she also helped Charmander realize how terrible Damian truly was.). Besides, even if she didn't, Ash never really did much in the episode either, yet you had kept the "Ash-focused episode" in despite that. now, I must ask you, who's really more biased? Weedle Mchairybug 20:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Getting a ribbon isn't as important as catching a Pokémon. Also, Jessie appeared for only a few minutes throughout the episode while Ash was in the entire thing. Having this as a Misty focused episode just to compromise your disagreements is unacceptable. --ケンジガール 20:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually, seeing how getting ribbons is the coordinator equivalent of getting Gym Badges, which are considered to be as important as capturing a Pokemon, so, in a manner of speaking, getting ribbons IS considered as important as capturing Pokemon. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C (It's simple Algebra). As for it still being an Ash episode, no it doesn't. Even IF he was there for the entire episode, and NOT for a few moments, that's still doesn't mean that it focused on him. I mean, even I didn't think that "Hypno's Naptime" was truly a Misty-centric Episode (I even made absolute certain that I didn't count it as such in that little survey I did.), and believe me, had I been one of those Misty fans who labelled anything that had Misty appearing as a Misty episode, I certainly would have done that. Even IF It wasn't truly focused on her (which, really, this never DID focus on Ash at all, either, aside from the capture of Charmander.), she still did things in that episode. If she truly did jack-squat, she might as well not be there (and as I stated in my previous post, AND my compromise edit, she also helped in the Charmander situation.).
Actually, why is it acceptable to allow Ash to be considered to have a focused upon episode just for appearing, and yet it's not in regards to Misty? I mean, Ash barely did anything besides capturing Charmander in the episode (which Jessie's win states that it doesn't mean an episode focus, especially if he was in the background for most of the episode and only got focus on nearly the last few minutes of the episode [Which was exactly what it was in the episode, last few minutes.].), I mean, appearing for most of the episode in the background and only doing something focus-worthy for a few moments (be it within the episode or the last few moments of an episode) is no different than being completely absent for most of the episode and only doing something focus-worthy for a few moments in the episode anyways. If anything, you guys are actually being far more biased in regards to Ash. All I did was try and make things more accurate and fair. Since, really, the only way we can keep Ash into the article IS by citing that Misty had some focus in the episode (which, if you think about it, she did, since she was somewhat integregal to Charmander's decision.). Weedle Mchairybug 20:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Keep in mind that ribbons are SECONDARY to Gym badges, not equal. Even then, Gym badges are still not as important as Pokémon captures. And Ash did do more things in this episode than Misty did, not including the capture of Charmander. So what if she came up with the idea that Charmander should decide for itself. Tracey came up with the idea of how to get Snorlax over the mountain in Pokémon Food Fight. Does that make it a Tracey episode? No. Just let this go already. --ケンジガール 20:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, actually, it DOES make it a Tracey episode, since that directly made the plot happen. Just because the character being focused on didn't capture a pokemon, didn't partake in a battle, or any of that doesn't mean that it isn't a character focused on episode. And my point still stands, if an episode doesn't focus on a character for more than a few minutes (either with said character being in the background, or just flat-out not appearing), OR does not have a direct affect to the plot, it's not a character focus episode. And about these so-called important parts that Ash did besides capturing Charmander, the only thing Ash did in that episode other than capture Charmander is try to get Charmander back to the Pokemon Center (Which, BTW, Misty also did that as well, yet you don't acknowledge that as doing something. If you can't count that as Misty doing something, then it doesn't count towards Ash doing something either, since she and Ash did the same thing.). This entire conversation only proves that you yourself have a bias towards Ash. for me, it's absolutes (Which are the only truly fair things in the world, as Bias and prejudice is "unfair", to quote Aaron Eckhart.). It either is or it isn't. If the episode focused on Ash for far more than just a few minutes, then it is an Ash episode, if he does something that directly affects the plot either for the entire series (EG, he wins a Gym Badge, a ribbon or, in a 30/30/30 scenario, Capturing pokemon), or at least the events of the episode/small-time arc (eg, he comes up with an idea that forms the entire basis of the episode/arc, he participates in a small-time tournament, or, in some cases, capturing Pokemon [since some pokemon captures by main characters don't necessarily affect the overall plot. in fact, arguably, none actually affect the plot in the long run if the fact that some of the captures aren't focused on as of late are anything to be applied.],), then it's an Ash episode. IF none of these apply (ie, he only gets a few moments of focus in the overall episode, and if we pull a "Jessie's second ribbon" on him, only a few moments of actual screentime, and the captures don't even affect the plot of an episode, or aren't enough to turn to his favor), it's not focused on him. The same goes for the other characters. Weedle Mchairybug 20:59, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
No it doesn't. If we based it on who came up with the ideas throughout the episode than we'd have a lot more character focused episodes than we have now. Most of the time Brock acts as navigator and tells the rest where to go. The place the head to is part of the main plot. If we did this by your standards than Brock would be the focus of almost every episode.
Jessie getting a ribbon wasn't the main focus of that episode. It was Ash battling Fantina. Charmander was the main focus of this episode. Ash ended up catching Charmander. Therefore, it is an Ash focused episode.
The reason we don't have Hypno's Naptime as a Misty focused episode is because Psyduck wasn't the main plot of the episode. The focus of the episode was finding the missing children.--ケンジガール 21:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
No, Actually, capturing Charmander wasn't the main focus of the episode (As a matter of fact, capturing it was a very miniscule part.). The main plot dealt with just rescuing it, not necessarily capturing it. Even if it did, Ash didn't really give much heed to capturing it (only for a few moments in the beginning, and the ending, did he really give heed of capturing it.). IF anyone was even hinted at capturing it throughout the episode, it was Brock. Weedle Mchairybug 22:00, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Who the hell cares? Most of the time Ash doesn't plan to capture a Pokémon. It just happens. The same thing happened with Bulbasaur and Squirtle. The point of the most of the episode wasn't capturing them. Just getting to know them better. God, use common sense please. --ケンジガール 00:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I am. In fact, I have already done an analysis of the arcs in the episodes. There are 4 arcs in this episode. The first dealt with the Abusive Trainer aspect. The second dealt with the rescuing of Charmander. The third dealt with letting Charmander decide for itself and not forcing it to decide to not return to Damian, even IF that was for the best. the fourth dealt with Charmander's ultimate decision.
With that aside, I'll also state which characters were focused on in each of these respective arcs. For the first one, Brock was the one most focused on, as he was the one who not only was angry at Damian for abandoning Charmander, but actually tried to make it clear to Damian, not to mention his concern about Charmander being in the rain. For the Second arc, again, Brock was more focused on it, as he not only was the one trying to shield it in the rain, but he also was the one completely focused on Charmander and tried to mentally encourage Charmander to get better. For the Third Arc, Misty actually got the focus in that, as she was the one who ended up telling everyone to let Charmander decide whether it should return to Damian or come with them after it left for it's rock, advice that ultimately rang true. Lastly, the fourth arc goes to Brock as he was the one who spent more of his time arguing with Damian. So Really, capture or not, the episode still doesn't focus on Ash, anyways (at least 3/4ths of the episode was dedicated to Brock, and Misty got the remaining fourth, and that's only due to the fact that it was because of her advice that Charmander ultimately joined, thus not only was that aspect focusing on Misty, but it also played a huge role in the plot.), Now, for the only OTHER arc that can be considered, and arguably the shortest, capturing Charmander, that actually goes to Ash (yes, I'll even admit that it goes to Ash), so, counting the fifth Arc, Brock has more than 3/5ths of the episode dedicated to him, Misty has nearly 1/5th, and Ash himself may end up having slightly less than 1/5th.
So, there are only two fair solutions based on this data. We can either remove Ash and say that the episode solely focuses on Brock, or we can count all arcs, regardless of how small they really were, and count Misty and Ash into the equation.
There's no way of counting Ash if we go by how much any of the characters received actual focus if going by who has the most arcs alone, and even IF we take absolutely all of the arcs into consideration, we might as well have to include those arcs that had minimal focus (which includes, yes, even Misty's.). Weedle Mchairybug 01:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
There you go again with your Misty obsession. Thinking that just cause she says one little line you think she's the focus of the episode where as Ash actually assisted Brock in carrying Charmander to the Pokémon center, kept Charmander's flame from going out, and ended up catching Charmander. Misty just said "Oh hei! Let's let Charmander decide who to go with" and you automatically think Misty is more important in this episode than Ash is. Now I will agree with you, this is a more Brock focused episode than it is Ash. I'm not denying that. But this is a hell of a more Ash focused episode than it is Misty. Charmander didn't just decided to go with Ash for no reason. It knew he helped it, which is why it chose him instead of Brock. You can't possibly say Ash had no significance in this episode whatsoever. While the only thing Misty did in the fourth part of this episode was suggest that Charmander decide for itself, Ash was the one who captured it and Ash was the one that Charmander liked. If Misty was do damn important in this episode, more so than Ash, then why didn't Charmander go with her. Please... Your argument is irrelevant and your judgment is blinded by your fondness of Misty. --ケンジガール 04:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually, Charmander was more thinking of going with Brock, Ash even admitted that Brock seemed more worthy of having Charmander than himself, but Brock insisted that Ash captured it, anyways, and for Charmander, it was probably the next best thing.
As for my being a Misty fan, WHO CARES?! I may be a Misty fan, but that was NOT the reason why I was trying to insert her into it. She was also the one who helped Charmander. Didn't you even pay attention to the scene where they were going to rescue Charmander, she was clearly present, and she also tried to help it as well? I mean, if I must remind you, the only thing Ash did in that scene was monitor the tail, yet you claim that's "a hell of a lot more than what Misty did". No that's not "a hell of a lot more". How Brock was helping Charmander, THAT's "a hell of a lot more", In Ash's case, it's only "slightly more" (Meaning, if you took that out, he also did jack-squat. It's simple mathematics. "a hell of a lot more" implies that even IF you take out a certain variable in the scene, it would still be more in the case of the character). Therefore, my point still stands. You can't keep Ash without keeping Misty since, even IF you argue that she did jack-squat in the episode, Ash barely did Jack-squat in the episode overall, either, hence the reason why you can't add him in unless you add her in as well.
Besides, the Contest ribbon of Jessie's ultimately impacted the episodes overall, since she now has 3 more to the GF. Weedle Mchairybug 10:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Your Misty obsession is impacting your judgment if you're saying she did more in this episode than Ash did. As I said, I know Brock did more than Ash. It's Misty I'm talking about. So stop telling me that Brock is the main focus of the episode. I already know. Misty didn't catch a Pokémon in this episode. Ash did. Therefor it's a more Ash focused episode than it is Misty.
And Jessie's contest ribbon did little to impact that episode as it was mostly about Ash's Gym battle with Fantina. --ケンジガール 23:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

A question regarding Damien's Poké Balls

Can the presence of more than six Pokémon really be attributed the fact that he is not shown to have a Pokédex? Vipera 03:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Considering how it was implied in Mystery of the Lighthouse that any Pokémon caught after the party reaches the maximum limit is sent to the same place as where Ash got his Pokédex from, yes, it is attributed to that. Weedle Mchairybug 09:49, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
It was explicit, not implied. It is also explicitly stated that Ash can use the white button(s) in Dexter to exchange members of his party for a Pokémon in storage -- now that is an implication, and it implies that Ash could simply use Dexter to perform an exchange anywhere at any time; but, instead, he always calls Professor Oak and makes the exchange at a machine by the phone. Why not question that?
The connection to the games should also be examined: at least in the first and second Generation games (having no experience with later generations, I can't speak for them) the player character receives a Pokémon first and a Pokédex later on; in both instances, it is Oak who gives it -- the Pokédex -- to the player. And, in the second Generation games, Professor Elm's dialogue infers that not every trainer gets one. On that same note, the red-haired rival also has a limit of six yet he stole his first Pokémon.
Regardless, what I'm getting at is that, even if every Trainer in the anime were shown to have a Pokédex, what is there to prevent them from having the freshly captured and transported Pokémon sent right back to them? Granted, I'm only up to EP155 in the anime, but I've not seen any Trainers apart from Ash and Gary with a Pokédex and of those the overwhelming majority of them are shown to have six or fewer Pokémon in their party. The few exceptions that come to mind are Characters of the Day who use Pokémon to make a living like Melvin, Ethan, Poncho, etc. Vipera 21:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, it was explicitly said. Regardless, seeing how it was stated in the episode that the Pokémon caught after reaching the maximum limit of six pokémon is sent to the place that Ash got his Pokédex from, and Pokémon Emergency already said that in order for a person to be an officially sanctified Trainer, he or she needs to have a Pokédex [a Pokédex is the same as an ID card/license, apparently.], that means that in order for the six pokémon limit to exist, then the pokémon that was caught after the six limit is maxxed out would need to be transferred to the place where the trainer first got his or her Pokédex from. Meaning, that if the trainer doesn't have a Pokédex, then he or she can't transport his or her newly caught pokémon if it is maxxed out, as he or she never had a Pokédex, and without a Pokédex, they aren't a official trainer, as they don't have a license [as the Pokédex is their license], meaning they DON'T have a six pokémon limit. You understand now? Weedle Mchairybug 22:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
So are Misty and Brock official Trainers? Vipera 22:20, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, kind of. While they technically don't have Pokédexes, their respective badges would also suffice as being ID cards (since Brock unveiled his Pewter Gym Badge in The Waterflowers of Cerulean City and was allowed to be cleared of any accusation of being a criminal, whileas Ash used his Pokédex to clear himself of any accusations of being a criminal, it's implied that Gym badges are an Identification key for a Gym Leader, or as an alternate ID card for a Pokémon Trainer. Weedle Mchairybug 23:00, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
In EP267 Ash has all his Pokémon (excluding those he released and Charizard) with him in the Pokémon Center. Vipera 18:47, 7 November 2009 (UTC)