Talk:Tier/Archive 1

• NOTE*: Before you make comments on a pokemons' tier, be sure the conditions are fair. Lower ranked pokemon can beat higher ranked pokemon. This does not mean the tiers need to be fixed. Just because a Butterfree can KO Heracross with Arial Ace does not mean that either pokemon is in the wrong tier. Thank you.

Does this even belong? I mean, sure, it's a good idea to have it, but... eh, I dunno. Either way, in the current state, the article is pretty crappy. --TTEchidna 03:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure about this?

As far as I can tell, by watching YouTube videos of Wi-Fi PBR battles, there are not this many tiers, and some Pokémon seem to be placed wrong. I've watched hundreds of battles, and not once have I seen an Aggron or Victreebel, both of which are listed as moderately used. On the other hand, I've seen lots of Pidgeot and Pachirisu, which are both in the never-used category according to this page. Who determined this list, and how did they determine it? Zurqoxn 01:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

• I believe it was based off some list posted at some website. I don't know which one. But at any rate, there are three things to consider. One, the rate at which things are used are not equal to how high something is on the tier list. Two, opinions of what goes into what tier vary. For instance, Smogon generally agrees Manaphy is uber tier. Third, technically, it is too early in the competitive battling scene to make a proper, full, tier list. In fact, for that reason alone, I believe this article should be deleted or at least changed to descriptions of each tier only until that time comes. System Error 06:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The site was probably Smogon, if you're wondering. Tiers are based mostly off of base stats, types and move pools for each Pokémon. For example, Skarmory is placed in Over Used because of its ability to take a hit and stay standing, due to high Defense and the Steel/Flying types, and its varied move pool. Also, I've never really seen a moderately used tier before, but it makes sense, especially after the changes to game play Diamond and Pearl have made. As a final note, I have also noticed that tiers change rapidly, based on current trends, play styles, and new discoveries. To make the article more accurate and appropriate, we could add a section on controversies, noting such debates as whether Manaphy, Celebi or Tyranitar qualify as Uber or not, and which Pokémon seem to hover between Overused and Borderline. -DarkMazer 00:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

• Also in the recent rush of Trick-Disable pokemon, pokemon such as Kecleon and Mr. Mime have gained a significant boost. I would say MU is fitting for these pokemon. And Sceptile could easily be BL since Worry Seed on Slaking was discovered. These two examples show how in the time between the creation of this list, and now, the metagame has already changed. Also from my personal standpoint, I have seen hundreds of Castforms being used efficiently

User: KarpiFloodcheck 11:55 26 August 2007

Edits

I'm pretty sure Sudowoodo is UU or even MU due to his nice attack and defence stats and decent movepool. Because Porygon2 has higher defensive stats than Porygon-Z, he is still a useable option, probably MU.
Wynaut only has 95 base HP, and can usually be beaten in OU. The reason It's usually classed as Uber is because of the fact that if two Wynauts/Wobbuffets meet, the battle is an automatic draw. So the question is, do we want him out of the picture, or allowed in OU and hope that you don't see another?
There are a few decent pokemon listed as OU, that I'm pretty sure are BL, especially on this list, due to the presence of the MU category. These include:
Donphan (Good but questionable)
Dusknoir (Questionable)
Machamp (Slow, generally outclassed by Lucario and Heracross (among others)
Magnezone (4x weakness to the most common offensive type there is.)
Mamoswine (Thought he was MU to be honest)
Medicham (Not bad, but not exactly great either)
Milotic (Outclassed by Suicune.)
Ninjask (the baton passer was a Gen III fad that nobody knew how to deal with. People are wiser now.)
Slowbro (Not sure why he's BL to be honest, good stats, good movepool, and somewhat unpredictable. Suffers from "four-moveslot-syndrome though, this guy has at least ten great moves he could be using. He's probably considered too slow and it's hard to find a spare slot for Trick Room)
Staraptor (Too many weaknesses and not enough defences. He has great attack but he shares his speed with too many others and trails behind many OUs as well.)
Umbreon (This guy was near unbeatable back in Gen III, but didn't get any upgrades from the generation shift that the sweepers got. He is much tougher to use now.)
Weezing (is a good pokemon but is outclassed by Skarmory.)

Hey, don't complain to US. We didn't come up with the crappy idea of tiers. So blah. User:TinaTheKirlia/Sig 03:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Tropius is NU?

Does that mean I've used an NU Pokémon to beat the Elite Four in Emerald? File:Ani475MS.gif Optimus35^{Talk | DP} 09:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

The Elite four don't have anything to do with the tier list. Face it: they've got brains of cow droppings. This list is solely applicable in player vs player single battles.

Dewgong!

Dewgong shouldn't be NU either. I used it in the Battle Tower to beat a Dragonite and a Garchomp in one move each, and they're both OU. File:Ani164MS.gifShiny^?! 18:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Hate to say it but Dewgong is NU. He has a horrible movepool and some sad stats. And hello? Dragonite and Garchomp both have 4x weaknesses to it's STAB attack! How could it not OHKO?

HUNTAIL?! PARASECT?!

Huntail??? NU???? In what fantasy dream realm is a Pokémon with base 104 Attack, STAB Waterfall, base 105 Defense, base 75 Special Defense, base 94 Special Attack, STAB Surf, and a possible 446 Speed stat in rainy weather, not to MENTION its other move options: Ice Beam, Ice Fang, Crunch, and even Aqua Tail, in NU? Huntail can wipe the floor with the NU tier! And Parasect! Base 95 attack, base 80 defenses, and such low speed that it can outspeed countless opponents in Trick Room conditions, Access to Cross Poison, X-Scissor (with STAB, no less!), and Spore, the most reliable sleep-inducing move in the game, and it's NU? I don't think so. Kinda like a Trick Room-friendly Crobat with a more reliable version of Hypnosis, and more Attack.Missingno. Master 19:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Huntail has miserable speed and hitpoints, and his movepool's pretty sad. Using Waterfall and Ice Fang, your attacks have lower power, or using Surf and Ice Beam, your offensive stat are lower. Although to some point, I must agree, he could be UU, he'd just be a bottom-of-the-rung UU. Parasect also has poor hitpoints and horrible typing. As most experienced gamers will know, fire- and flying- types are rare in the OU environment, due to weaknesses (*cough* Charizard/Moltres), poor movepools (Ninetails/Swellow), poor stat distribution (*cough* Flareon/Entei *cough*) and poor type coverage. They are usually stuck in UU and NU with Parasect, who happens to have a 4x weakness to both types. Parasect could be fun with Trick room, but how many Trick Room users do you see in NU? He also has problems with his abilities. With Dry Skin, you're essentially increasing his water resistance, but why do you need it? Parasect would also have some SunnyBeaming possibilities, but not with Dry Skin. Further, it turns his 4x fire weakness into an 8x fire weakness. Therefore, Effect Spore is a necessity. However, with Effect spore, if the opponent is hit with a condition, you can no longer use Spore to put him to sleep. Parasect going to be NU for a long time.

Protected page, please

Any smhuck(no offense) can edit this and say their pokemon is uber, etc. Discussion like this should be relegated to the forums, where such discussion does not interfere. Somethign along the lines of the smashboard forums, that relegate smash characters, (periodically updated here by an admin) would work nicely imo.Dark0805 14:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Delete It

There is no official tier list. Many people/websites have their own tier lists. For example, some people say that Wynaut is Uber, while some say that it is BL. What is up with that? Obviously, the Tier List has no true content. May we delete it?

Hold you're horses, Cowboy! Before putting a Delete tag on it, ask other users about what they think. This is like the Bulbapedia:The Great Bulbapedia Turkey Shoot. Many people think that it should be delete, yet some do not. File:Ani234MS.gifMERRY File:Ani385MS.gif CHRISTMASFile:Ani225MS.gif 17:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I kinda think that we should delete it. After all, this is one of the things that people could put their own shit in it (Along with the Great Turkey Shoot. That page is a steaming pile of crap now, thanks to people overreacting to vandals. :/) and.. yeah. Although, if many people think that we should keep it, protect it instead from either new members or only admins. User:TinaTheKirlia/Sig 17:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm for deleting it too, it's a unofficial fan list that may have too many errors in it. Plus there is no official list since it was fan-made.File:Ani386NMS.gifPokeFile:Ani386AMS.gifmaniacFile:Ani386DMS.gif102File:Ani386SMS.gif 17:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Lol. I could care less for both this page and the Turkey Shoot. File:Ani234MS.gifMERRY File:Ani385MS.gif CHRISTMASFile:Ani225MS.gif 17:48, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Tiers are just a bunch of bullsh*t anyway. I've had my Glaceon kick a Garchomp's a$$ countless times, and they say that Glaceon is UU/BL? Pssshh. User:TinaTheKirlia/Sig 17:50, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, mine did too! User:Optimus35/sig 04:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC) XD

Now do we all agree to delete it?File:Ani386NMS.gif_PokeFile:Ani386AMS.gif_maniacFile:Ani386DMS.gif₁₀₂File:Ani386SMS.gif 04:08, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Either that or move it to the Appendix.User:Optimus35/sig 04:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we should do that.File:Ani386NMS.gif_PokeFile:Ani386AMS.gif_maniacFile:Ani386DMS.gif₁₀₂File:Ani386SMS.gif 04:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

It's totally fanon. Appendix...User:Optimus35/sig 04:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess...File:Ani386NMS.gif_PokeFile:Ani386AMS.gif_maniacFile:Ani386DMS.gif₁₀₂File:Ani386SMS.gif 04:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

No way should it be deleted! This is probably the most important list ever for the competitive battler! It does need some work though.

I think that it should be deleted. Well, now that I see that it is in Appendix, I guess it could stay. --Theryguy512File:Trozeiani025.gif 02:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way, the Appendix namespace is for 'useless' stuff, seeing as many scientists think that the Appendix is useless...User:Optimus35/sig 04:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I know. And sometimes, appendixes get removed from the body.......get my connection? --Theryguy512File:Trozeiani025.gif 13:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Hitmonchan UU?!

I really think Hitmonchan should be a Border Line. It knows Three STAB Piority First Moves, Can Learn the All Mighty BoltBeam Combo (With Ice/Thunder Punch, of course) And for Crying Out loud, it can Own Blissly In one shot, or atleast Mine can. So please put Hitmonchan in BL, not UU.-Quick Man P.S Can someone Please help me make a sig?

Uh.. *shrugs* We didn't come up with this list, so.. yeah. Can't help you there. Tiers are crap anyway -- they seriously, imo, mean absolutely nothing. And I'm a big competitive battler too. User:TinaTheKirlia/Sig 03:45, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe Tiers have Seperate Articles?

Okay the more I look at this talk page, the more "Why the hell is so-so in so-so when he can.. blah blah" I start to see. After awhile, it's going to be too much room for the talk page to handle don't you think? So I thought... that if we ARE gonna keep the tier list (Which I hope we do being a fan of competitive battling) that we make seperate articles for each tier? File:Ani026MS.gifMudkipchanFile:Ani392MS.gif

Hmm.. that's a nice idea.. although like, if we do seperate the tiers into different pages we should have descriptions of what's mostly in there anyway. Like for example, we could say that OU Pokémon have very high stats and a large movepool, and some such as Tyranitar and Blissey can compete in Uber battles because they are strong enough. User:TinaTheKirlia/Sig 03:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

We should put each Pokémon's tier on that Pokémon's page. File:Ani164MS.gifShiny^?!  14:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Medicham

Why is Medicham OU? It has horrible stats and a rather small movepool. File:Ani164MS.gifShiny^?!  15:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)