Bulbapedia talk:Editor's Hub

Bulbapedia talk:Editor's Hub This page is designed for both discussions about the contents of the Editor's Hub and more general questions about how to edit on Bulbapedia

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Archived discussions: 1

Updating the HeldItems template to support Legends Arceus

Any chance that the HeldItems template could be updated to support Legends Arceus? I am willing to at least make a dent in adding the info to the pages that need adding, but I cannot do that if the template doesn't support it. From the look of things, it seems like it'd be a pretty easy thing to do with a copy/paste and changing text where needed. I'm not a template expert though. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 00:13, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for drawing attention to this. I've added Legends: Arceus and (for when the time comes) Scarlet & Violet to the {{HeldItems}} template. I hope this helps! - bthrussellUK (talk) 21:36, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, it does! I'm wondering how we want to handle the more robust dropped item system in this game. Almost every pokemon has multiple items it can drop, and both can drop at the same time. In addition, each pokemon has different drops if its an alpha, it can drop grit if it's defeated in battle, and it can drop aguav berries if caught/defeated from a berry outbreak in a massive mass outbreak. I don't know if the current template is built to handle this complexity. Could we possibly add a new template with sections for regular drops and alpha drops. Should we bother listing the grit/aguav berry drops, considering they're independent from the species itself? -PancakeIdentity (talk) 09:12, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Isn't that what is, at least partially, handled by this page?--Rocket Grunt 10:11, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

That doesn't show odds or alpha drops. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 18:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

We're going to look into this further. The template is frankly a mess right now, so may require a rebuild, so we're going to look into how to intergrate the dropped items from Legends: Arceus, or whether they'd be better off with their own solution. - bthrussellUK (talk) 20:30, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Once the time comes, lemme know! I have all the drop rate info (not sourced from any other fan site), so I can do the grunt work of actually getting stuff onto pages once it comes. Just for my input, I also wonder if the technical difference between "held" and "dropped" items may warrant Arceus info having its own solution? -PancakeIdentity (talk) 06:39, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Question regarding game information not obtainable in normal gameplay

I recently added a couple of bits of trivia regarding Z-moves (that no NPC can use an Exclusive Z-Move, and that if they try, the game will crash, although this is not observable in normal gameplay as one needs to use a hacking device to make that happen) to the Z-move page. Another editor removed the latter bit, remarking that it was removed because it involved hacking.

I had looked around for rules regarding trivia about the games and their structure that could not be observed without using hacking devices or glitches, and could not find any, so I assumed that such was ok - is there a page in the manual of style that I missed, or is this an part of an unspoken guideline I should be aware of (like, I'm not complaining if it is, I just don't want to step on any toes)?

ABZB (talk) 18:24, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I asked about the edit in the Bulbagarden Discord server and a non-Staff member said "'If the game does something it isn't supposed to, it crashes'. It just means something was not programmed into the game because it is never supposed to happen. Don't think it's notable." which a staff member reacted to in agreement and another responded with "The first part that no NPC uses those items might be fine though". That doesn't point to a policy or anything, but I felt I should explain how I came to make that edit. Exempt-Medic (talk) 18:56, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Understood. I found it interesting because of the exact timing at which it crashes - at the very end of the entire sequence, when the camera focuses back on the Pokemon that performed the move, right before the background reverts from the Z-move backdrop to the regular field - as far as I can tell with the currently limited tools available, the game is probably trying to call some animation or other model-thing related to the Trainer that initiated the Z-move that NPC trainers do not have (which seems unlikely, I can't imagine what that could be, but the timing and freeze suggests that the most strongly), leading to the game freezing. I had previously wondered if they were not included because GF ran into some difficult bug that they ran out of time to fix, or if they simply did not include it for gameplay balance reasons - that the entire thing works except for the mentioned freeze gives some weight to the "hard bug" thing. We probably won't find any more depth to that until 3DS coding and decompiling advance... I didn't put in the whole explanation because hardware/programming heavy trivia is very uncommon here, probably because we avoid emulation/ROM stuff in general, so I figured it was a bad idea to reference... - unsigned comment from ABZB (talk • contribs)

Yeah a game breaking when forced to do something it's not supposed to really isn't particularly surprising or notable. Landfish7 23:09, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

New learnset templates

Greetings!

I have made a couple of posts about revamping the move pages earlier this year. You can find them here and here. Since then, Bfdifan2006 and I have been working on the implementation of these suggestions. To keep this short, I won't reiterate everything.

We propose two new templates: a new header and a new entry template for moves. You can see what their implementation would look like here. There is also a tutorial page on how to use the new header.

Our goal with this measure is not only future-proofing, but also decluttering and the shortening of pages. That is why we also propose the merger of the TM/TR and the Tutor sections. Since a move can only be one of these three within a game, it's a perfect solution and the template accommodates all possible game combinations. Incredible help for mobile users, who would no longer have to scroll for ages to find out whether their Infernape could learn Drain Punch or not.

I am willing to do 100% of the manual implementation of myself (though coordinated help is appreciated). Since the new templates wouldn't be compatible with the old code, some editing is required. I would start with the level-up learnsets, then move on to merging the TM and Tutoring sections. The breeding sections would remain separate. Considering I helped with updating the learnsets during the release of SwSh and LA, I hope that my commitment is taken seriously. It is a big job, but I am confident it can be finished before the release of SV.

Please note: we'd like to implement an "All Forms" note for Pokémon like Wormadam (it would have all three artworks in the template), Shaymin, etc. Essentially for Pokémon whose forms have almost identical movesets. This would need separate approval, and I would like to hear the admins' opinion on it. This is not urgent and can be implemented after everything else. Oneofthosedf (talk) (contribs) 21:12, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Italic game titles

I'd like to suggest using italics conforming to more standard rules in all articles. Maybe a bit more like Wikipedia?

Game titles:

• Pokémon Scarlet
• Pokémon Violet
• Pokémon Scarlet and Violet

I suggest also formatting anime episode titles and manga round titles with quotation marks and no italics.

Examples:

In "Pokémon Emergency!", Ash used his Pokédex to confirm his identity.

In "A Glimpse of the Glow", Red and Blue saw Mew.

--Daniel Carrero (talk) 22:06, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

In my opinion, it should stay the way it has been for anime episode and manga round titles. I'll abstain on the topic of game titles. --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 08:41, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the game titles. It's bothered me for a while, and many other wikis format titles in italics, so I don't see why Bulbapedia shouldn't do the same. Inkster (talk) 19:54, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Well we aren't other wikis so we can and do have our own style. Not saying I disagree with the proposal though. Landfish7 22:40, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Maybe it's just me, but sometimes it bothers me a bit that Bulbapedia appears to be the odd one out which does not use italic game titles. Even the other NIWA wikis (which are affiliated to Bulbapedia) use italic titles like Super Mario Land, Super Metroid, and Kirby Star Allies, right? So I wonder why we are not using Pokémon Red, Pokémon Diamond, etc.

Personally, the current situation means that I need to actively remember not to italicize game titles when editing Bulbapedia, when compared to editing/reading other wikis.

I don't suppose the idea of using non-italic game titles was something decided on purpose, right? Is there any discussion with people saying: "Hey, Bulbapedia, I think we should have some non-italic game titles", "Oh that's perfect, non-italic works fine for those games", "We are better than all those other wikis that use italic game titles, since non-italic is clearly the best option"

Or maybe people just didn't discuss anything. Maybe we just wrote some non-italic game titles and didn't bother to "fix" them, and somehow we ended up with a "tradition" of using non-italic.

It could be just me, but my opinion is this: The non-italic game titles look unprofessional. They don't seem to have an actual deliberate style choice; instead, they just appear to be lacking some formatting. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 10:13, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

I think this should be done as there are titles like "Let's go Eevee" which look like a sentence and may confuse while reading it as a part of a real sentence. This should be easy to fix as there are already used templates for links to game articles.--Rocket Grunt 10:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Updating Tables for Scarlet/Violet Encounters

Hello! I'm interested in adding encounter tables to Bulbapedia based on extracted data with rarity chances, biome, and areas for each route. Since Pokemon in S/V have rarities, as well as biomes they spawn in within an area, would it be possible to add an encounter table template in a format similar to this?

Pokemon | Biome | Rarity

If there are other ideas for how to categorize encounter info, please discuss! I'm new to editing and would love to help in any way possible. - unsigned comment from HeirOfHeart (talk • contribs)

Can I wright about the Pokémon's in-game behavior

Can I wright about the Pokémon's in-game behavior? If so, where would I do that? Chickoritaboy11 (talk) 02:41, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

In the biology section, usually.--ForceFire 05:20, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I was just reading the game descriptions...?

Do we really need to have what's essentially a game walkthrough in the Plot section? Not all pages do this, but some do it, like Pokemon Gold and Silver and Pokemon Diamond and Pearl. Step93 (talk) 20:13, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree. In particular, the HMs and Gym Leaders don't really need to be mentioned except where relevant to the plot. I've also started a discussion about this on the Bulbagarden Discord. Thanks for bringing this up! Landfish7 02:52, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Pokemon researching

there should be a small article on the scroll cynthias grandmother shows you, i am researching legendary pokemon and things like this would really help others like meHsukhr22 (talk) 17:06, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Locationdex

Can we include better images for places on locationdex, for example, the only picture of skycpillar is when its viewed from front, instead we should have a transparant backround, with all sided sprite images.Hsukhr22 (talk) 17:14, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Research

I might be able to finish some of my research and submit it in an article.Hsukhr22 (talk) 17:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Pokemon research

The only explanation for the fact that you can find the three regis in hoenn, sinnoh and galar(plz notify if u can find in other reigons too) is that the regi tombs are actually seperate dimensions, and regigigas is also in its own dimension. These places consist of the regi tombs and even the inside of snowpoint temple!, without the portal they are just empty!. Since the people of olden times couldnt actually do this they must have asked arceus to help them, or in the very least tricked him into doing so, (arceus CAN be tricked as shown in the movie arceus and the jewel of life.)Hsukhr22 (talk) 11:02, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Pokémon Garden.

Should we create a page on the obscure Pokémon Garden?

It was recently featured in a Did You Know Gaming video. - unsigned comment from RequiemOfLostSouls (talk • contribs)

Yes! We should. Maybe it would help bring some attention to the preservation efforts. (Maybe we can also find some official sources on the archives of the official website) ^Maverick_Nate 14:07, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Shiny color changes in Biology section

Should we add the color changes of a Shiny Pokémon in their Biology section? ThePokéNerd1996 (talk) 22:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

I think the main problem is that the Shinies changes so much. Landfish7 23:04, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Article titles: X in the Pokémon world

It seems we currently have 13 articles (non-redirects) with the wording "in the Pokémon world" or "of the Pokémon world" like this:

• Air transportation in the Pokémon world
• Animals in the Pokémon world
• Death in the Pokémon world
• Flora of the Pokémon world
• Ghosts in the Pokémon world
• Illness in the Pokémon world
• Land transportation in the Pokémon world
• Magazines in the Pokémon world
• Movies in the Pokémon world
• Radio in the Pokémon world
• Transportation in the Pokémon world
• Water transportation in the Pokémon world
• Weaponry in the Pokémon world

I wonder if that part can be removed so at least some articles would look like this:

• Air transportation
• Animal
• Death
• Flora
• Ghost / Ghost (general) or something
• Illness
• Land transportation
• Magazine / Magazine (in-universe) or something
• Movie / Movie (in-universe) or something
• Radio
• Transportation
• Water transportation
• Weaponry

Basically, if we just remove the "in the Pokémon world" and the preceding space, this would save typing 21 characters (22 if you count typing the accent).

Maybe this applies to some cases and not others, but the "in the Pokémon world" can be considered redundant if it's already obvious that we are talking about the Pokémon world.

You know, this wording "in the Pokémon world" is not really present in all the possible article titles where it could be. Shouldn't we have some kind of consistent rule? For instance, if we keep this wording, should Human, Television, and Weather be moved to Humans in the Pokémon world, Television in the Pokémon world, and Weather in the Pokémon world as well?

I talked a bit with other admins about this. If I understand correctly, one argument for keeping that "in the Pokémon world" wording would be to tell the difference between in-universe and real-life perspectives. So we have Pokémon movie for the movies made in real-life about Pokémon, and Movies in the Pokémon world for the movies created in-universe.

Similarly, it seems we have Death in the Pokémon world instead of a Death article because we are not going to actually write text explaining real-life deaths. In this case, this makes sure the article is only about the in-universe perspective. On the other hand, I would argue that the "Death" title would probably still be OK and it would not require content about real-life deaths anyway. You know, we have Human instead of Humans in the Pokémon world, and this article is still about in-universe humans.

In any case, there's a problem about the subject of ghosts. It seems that people would normally expect the page title Ghost to be about the Ghost (type), right? In that case, it appears we are not going to use the article title Ghost to talk about all kinds of unrelated ghosts like the current article Ghosts in the Pokémon world.

There's a minor recurring anime character named Flora. I would suggest perhaps using the article title Flora to explain the plants and Flora (anime) for the character. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 15:58, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Italics

Please let's write video game titles in italics like Pokémon Scarlet and Violet (instead of non-italics like Pokémon Scarlet and Violet).

As far as I can tell, Pokémon official media (including Pokémon.com, also also the game manuals and boxes) have been consistently using italics game titles from HeartGold and SoulSilver onwards.

Examples of official text:

• "Various language versions of Pokémon Black 2, Pokémon White 2, Pokémon Black, and Pokémon White can communicate, battle, and trade with one another." (manual of Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, page 4)
• "This is Pokémon Omega Ruby. The types and likelihood of Pokémon that will appear differ from Pokémon Alpha Sapphire." (back of the box of Pokémon Omega Ruby)

At some point I added a bit of information about the italics game titles in Core series#Terminology.

Wikipedia does it like this: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles of works. I know we don't need to do everything like Wikipedia, but this page also notes "These cases are well-established conventions recognized in most style guides."

Bulbapedia is the only NIWA wiki that does not use italics for game titles, right? The italics game titles are used by Mario wiki, Kirby wiki, Metroid wiki, Smash wiki, etc. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 03:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

I would agree that we should have included this in the manual of style when setting up the wiki, as it is a convention that makes sense and is followed on other wikis. Unfortunately, nearly 24 years have passed since the wiki was opened, and we currently have 53,208 articles, a large portion of which are going to include at least one game title somewhere in the text. Changing it now would be a massive undertaking, and even using bots wouldn't be a great idea, as there are going to be exceptions that we would want to make (e.g. within templates) that are too nuanced for bots to handle. If you can figure out a way for us to easily update every instance of a game title on the wiki, then we can look into this further, but at the moment it will have to stay in the "maybe someday" pile. - bthrussellUK (talk) 22:51, 7 November 2023 (UTC)