User talk:ArcToraphim/Archive2

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Battle judge

Nice article. Just remember that when you create pages you should link to them in other articles so that people can find them (and improve them!). If they don't get links they'll end up on this dungheap. Cheers, —darklordtrom 11:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

It was late, trom. x_x That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 12:50, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Feeling Shipping

I have noticed no one made a Yellow and Green page it ok if i make one? - unsigned comment from Rubybrendan (talkcontribs)

Administrative note: moved here from Luna's talk archive —darklordtrom 08:01, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

A question

Ah... hello. I have a question relating a shipping article that I started (sorry, did so without permission...) and was deleted by Magnedeth for reasons I don't quite understand; it doesn't help that no discussion items were left behind.

The ship is the SoulSilver one (Silver/Lyra), from HGSS. That one ship bothers me to no end, but I acknowledge that it's valid, so I thought it would be a good idea to start the article over at the shipping category, where I couldn't find it by that name (the only one I know for it), nor by checking the category for Silver nor HGSS pairings. And since over at the TV Tropes wiki it's no big deal for anybody to create an article, I went ahead with the idea, and let it remain a stub because it really is not my ship of choice.

Shortly thereafter, the article was deleted. I went to look at the Project Shipping page (...again; I had checked it before many times), which was the one I guessed was the relevant one for the case, and I kind of didn't find my article violating the rules, so I was left with just a question (OK, at last, this one goes for you): why was the article on the SoulSilverShipping deleted? --KayiR 07:13, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

It was deleted on the basis that the article would never be more than a stub, and all of its hints would be the same as Huntershipping. It would be like making an article for Clingyshipping (Barry/Lucas), NewRivalshipping (May/Wally) or Namelessshipping (Fire!Red/Blue) and expecting the article to be exceptionally different from (and not something that could be c/p'd to) an article on Conflictingshipping (Blue/Leaf), Loverivalshipping (Brendan/Wally), or a game!version only article of TwinleafShipping.
Anything that could be said about SoulSilvershipping could be equally applied to Huntershipping; it's not exactly an exclusive 'ship in terms of its hints. And seeing as the opposite gender NPC doesn't crash into the rival at any point (save for the very beginning), the NPC cannot give an individual account of what they think of Silver, which takes even more individual hints away. The entire basis of either 'ship needs to come from Silver (you being the silent protag), and anything he says to Lyra is also the same thing he says to Ethan. So what's considered a hint for one must be considered a hint for the other. It'd be a pretty bias article, on that front. I'll think about if anything can be done in other ways for the couple, but as an individual article, I don't think it will stand up. Thank you for asking, though. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:48, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Mmm... And shouldn't it be better to at least acknowledge its existence, then say something like "the hints that apply to HunterShipping apply for SoulSilverShipping"? I mean, in case someone else with the same idea as me, but an actual supporter of the ship, came around and made an even bigger fuss? --KayiR 17:28, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
We hold stricter notability standards for shipping articles. Not every pairing thought of by three fans deserves an entire page. For the ships that aren't notable for their own pages, we have lists of ships. --electAbuzzzz 17:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Except SoulSilvershipping is popular, Buzz. However, popularity isn't a reason for notability if its article cannot sustain itself properly. And if people who support it come along and wish to make it, they will likely be given the same reasons they cannot. And like I said, I'll think of something for it. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 18:06, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Don't some shipping articles have "other names for this ship" sections? Maybe a similar section could be added to HunterShipping, noting that SoulSilverShipping is the shipping name for Silver/Lyra, which goes by the same hints... I realize this could cause a fuss for a completely different reason, but it was the first thing I thought of, so I thought I'd suggest it. 梅子 18:36, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


How isn't Specialshipping canon?! --Shiny Noctowl 23:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

....Because Kusaka didn't make it canon...? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 23:25, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Red and Yellow's red string of fate doesn't count? --Shiny Noctowl 23:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
That simply means they're destined in some fashion; if this were a shoujo series, I'd be more inclined to agree, but it's shounen. It ain't canon until they're confirmed feelings. Frantic did it, and even Graceful referred back to having been ex-canon and possibly future canon. Commoner is apparently one-sided, which doesn't make it canon at all in terms of romance, but canon in terms of character traits.
I don't take kindly to people who assume 'ships are true when they are undoubtedly not. In the mean time, the red string is still only a hint. A hint to possibly something bigger, but even without a partial confession, or a scene where it's obvious their dating, it's not canon. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 23:50, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


For the trivia you mentioned, "I was wary of the second piece of trivia before, but I've decided neither are viable. The rumor is left because its directly related to the manga's events". Did you notice it was in the trivia section? It's just some unimportant facts that people should know. It doesn't necessarily mean Trivia has to be with the Manga. Sorry to bother you about it ^^ Just wondering why it was removed. Luckyshipping - Because they're lucky to be together 00:00, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I did notice it was trivia (I said it was as much). I removed it because while color-linking is common in video games, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a connection to the 'ship itself. Color-linking usually has a blue-red(-black) pattern, but in this case, it's not connected to the original series, seeing as it's Red/Green+Blue, not Red/Blue+Green (and that would only be a hint for the hero/rival, because the girl is the +1 regardless of what colors you do). J!Blue is an afterthought beyond J!Red/Green.
I also removed the trivia on BurningLeafshipping, because Red and Leaf don't exist in the same space in the games. If you choose Red, Leaf doesn't exist in-game, and vice-versa. It's commonly accepted they're meant to be the same person, as in, they're different gender variants of the same being: the hero. BurningLeafshipping has as much connection to Luckyshipping as Twinleafshipping has to Haughtyshipping: entirely different circumstances. One's relation has no impact on the other's.
That was pretty much why. *nod* Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 00:43, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I see now. Thank you for the response; I understand now. Luckyshipping - Because they're lucky to be together 19:01, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Headline text

Hello. I hope I'm leaving the comment right... Umm does bulbapedia need an article on Coupleshipping?? If so may I do it please. (Sry I'm new here....) Diamond-Contestshipper 16:41, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Coupleshipping? No such thing. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 19:15, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Oh...I saw it on google so..yeah sorry about that. :( Diamond-Contestshipper 16:04, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
First of all, you ought to give relevant titles to sections you make. "Headline text" doesn't explain a thing about what you're trying to ask. Secondly, you don't need to start a new section if your new post is on the topic of your previous section. Just indent (using ":") to reply to a previous post. --AndyPKMN 16:29, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
Technically, Coupleshipping is "Lucas/Mars/Dawn" and nothing Dawn/Ash/Drew/May/whatever related. And 3somes don't get articles. But any articles we do need are here, so please feel free, once you read the requirements for making an article. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 18:20, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Grings Kōdai

Hey, sorry to bug you, but I was wondering if we could get Kōdai moved to Grings Kōdai now. The movie's out, and I see no reason to believe that isn't his canon full name. Just wanted to ask. --The Great Butler 07:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Better to ask something like Kenji on that. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

New Shipping

Excuse me, I have a very important shipping that needs to be added. I belive it is you i must talk to to create it. It is called either HatShipping or JohtoShipping, wich ever you think is better, and it is between Lyra and Ethan. Also, could it be on Category:Shipping as well as The List of shippers? If nessacary, I will write the page for you. Its sorta like the FortuneShipping of Johto. Speaking of wich, you could probably edit piece of trivia no 8 a bit on your page. Yata.--Dermodio 15:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Lyra/Ethan is called HeartSoulshipping, and I'm not sure at all if they even interact enough in-game for an article. If you want to try to write an article, first make it in your userspace. Something like User:Dermodia/HeartSoulShipping and if the article turns out fine, we can make it a full-fledged article. But if it doesn't make the cut, it will not be. You understand? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:59, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Okely Dokely. I will do so as soon as possible. --Dermodio 09:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

My edit in the AdvanceShipping article

Hi, I hope it's ok that I'm putting this here and not on the AdvanceShipping discussion page, but I was afraid you wouldn't see this there, since it wasn't used in nearly 2 years...

Anyway, You removed the part I added about the Prince and King of the Sea.

I just wanted to clarify that I didn't mean to say that the titles are related is a fact, just that it's another possible support to the Manaphy sees Ash as his Father theory (I did call it a theory, after all). And Ash is called the King of the Sea, Ship states that "He who holds the Sea Crown shall become the true King of the Sea." when explaining Ash new powers (At least in the Japanese version, I didn't saw the dubbed version so I don't know if something similar was said there).

Again, I hope that I'm not doing anything wrong by putting this here. Cag 16:27, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Wild speculation without basis doesn't belong on these articles, much like it doesn't belong on any mainspace article. Context is one thing, but nothing I removed is relative to the theory. You implied the titles were related simply by using it as "support" for a theory that's pretty far-fetched to begin with and shouldn't be in the article at all (but I'm letting it stay anyway). Without a connection to the titles, you're basically inserting fanon, and I've grounds to remove what isn't supported in canon.
And if that is the line, then Ash's claim to the "King of the Sea" title is a throw-away line, BTW. Nothing more than a statement connecting back to the legend without impacting Ash's story. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 18:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
I can't exactly say I agree with you about it being baseless speculation, but I see your point (Well, since you're the project leader, I guess it doesn't really matter whether I see your point or not XD). Oh well, at least most of my edit is still there for now. Thanks for answering my question! :) Cag 19:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Shipping article

ok so can i add ships i think need an article in the Well it would be nice... section? Mash4eva 15:06, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

You could, but if I don't think the pairing would make a decent article, I'll only take it off. And if you make too many of those, it'll only be annoying, you know? It's too presumptuous. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


Does the link at the bottom count as "hints"?Patrickmck 22:33, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The link at the bottom counts as an external link to a person's personal blog/website. It's content is also questionable and biased, despite claiming otherwise, as context is not given. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 22:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

ok i'll stop adding to the shipping list like crazy

sorry if that offended you. the reason why i added to the list because there's a lot of shippings i think need pages to them. one shipping though i think needs a page the most is curtainshipping. - unsigned comment from Mash4eva (talkcontribs)

You didn't "offend" me; but what you seem to think needs an article really can't, only because there's absolutely no substance to any you've added so far. Now, Curtainshipping has had an article before. It was deleted in a purge. It wasn't a good article then; there wasn't much to Maylene or Reggie's interactions beyond "they know each other." Not to mention, it's not a notable 'ship anymore, and that's what matters at this point. Curtainshipping doesn't have notability. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 05:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

ok and do you who runs the incomplete shippers list?Mash4eva 01:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I do. Why? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 01:26, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks :D

Thanks for backing me up on the color thing about the name for Abagoura! --+ Joeshie + (is Mæ!) 02:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Not a problem at all. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 03:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


Hi, I'm new, and I want to help. I have only seen episodes 1-227, and I know them pretty well. Loghomewill 01:31, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Awesome job, dude ma'am!

BronzeBulbasaur.png Congratulations! For your outstanding service to Bulbapedia you have been awarded the Bronze Bulbasaur Award for October, 2010 by the Bulbapedia editorial board!

Please place this template onto your userpage by putting {{User Award|BronzeBulba|October, 2010}} among your userboxes.

Bulbapedia bulb.png

Thank you, Luna, for the countless hours of effort you've put in over the years and especially the last few months. —darklordtrom 08:00, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

What the hell is up with this weekend? o.O ...Thanks guys. =) Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
We're watching you Luna. >:D It's about time you got rewarded for your efforts, congratulations. Jellotalk 21:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
>D I can live with this (though I don't think watching me is any fun). Thanks for the nom', btw. *hug* Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 22:10, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


Who said you could start updating the articles with the disambiguation notices!? --Landfish7 16:33, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

... *points to every other pogey page* You know they finished that process, right? The ones I did were just the missed scraps. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:35, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
NO NO NO!! They haven't confirmed the change yet! --Landfish7 16:40, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
That was four-six days ago. You missed it when they did the whole thing, did you. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:47, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
I'll give you that but five-six days ago we made a similar misconception when our very own Editor-In-Chief made a similar page, believe it or not, he was wrong at the time, it hadn't been confirmed yet, at least, according to MAGNEDETH. [1] --Landfish7 16:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
All of which I'm well aware of, and more. What you seemed to have missed it that, despite the move "not being confirmed" publicly, it's been done. Have you looked on the pokémon pages? Any one that has a dismbig? They were all updated with the disambig in the header. By mods. By Deth himself? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:00, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
The reason people were editing the pages before is because other people were editing the pages. Just because people are editing the pages, including Deth, or even TTE, that STILL doesn't confirm the change. --Landfish7 17:11, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Kid, I know you seem worried, but what part of "the change is done" is not sinking in? If I'm wrong, I'll get reprimanded. By staff. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
It's just I made the same mistakes, it's rather most of us are ALL wrong, or the admins need to confirm it in the forums or on bulbanews A.S.A.P. --Landfish7 17:26, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
I know you made the mistake; I also know it wasn't your fault. I'm also a moderator on the forums. Something like this? Not going to be mentioned in News. They did confirm it on the forums. Ta. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:31, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Great! That's all I needed. Thanks. :) --Landfish7 13:48, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Re: Disambig

Welp, they wanted the number of pages in the category decreasing, and it's the only way. And red links are bound to appear all the time, and they'd be eventually blue links as the time progresses, but I'll stop until I see activity on it. I kinda stepped back yesterday when I wanted to make these changes since the Disambiguation pages were red links after all. Masatoshi: Gen. II>All. Discuss. 21:45, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Dude, eventually there will be a Disambig for that pokemon, or you can make one yourself, but just don't redlink them. Gliscorguy54 21:47, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
There's a misconception abounding, apparently. That status bar doesn't mean: they all have to have disambig links now...or else we would have done it already. Some of the pogeys you just redlinked for won't be getting necessary disambigs for a loooong time. They aren't necessary until they're necessary. We avoid redlinking in this kind of situation. If we don't need the article, there shouldn't be a link. If we do, the red link is there to serve as a reminder that we do. The disambigs = not necessary yet. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:52, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Okay, then. My bad. (Everytime I try to do something, it's wrong or unneeded :<) Masatoshi: Gen. II>All. Discuss. 21:54, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
That's just because you're a little ambitious. Which isn't wrong at all. It takes a bit of figuring, that's all. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:58, 1 December 2010 (UTC)


I am having a problem. It says that we need a NeoRocketShipping article, but I don't know how to make the thing with the Luvdisc... And when I am trying to put a photo on the page, how do I control where it goes on the page?

I'm really sorry for bothering you, but I really need help...

Thanks,Eliza 23:18, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

New Ship

Don't you think there should be a page for Chris and Eusine? There are so many hints; it'd be a great page! I'm not saying it has to be done now, or anytime soon, but just think about. That's all I ask.

--Ggb81 02:42, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I understand. Thanks. --Ggb81 01:50, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Dub hints

I was wondering what your stance on dub hints are. I've seen that one user keeps removing hints from RocketShipping on the basis that they are dub-added lines and don't matter. But PokéShipping has many dub hints listed. So should dub lines be allowed or removed? Or does it depend on the situation? --ケンジガール 02:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

The Rocketshippers monitoring that article believe the only hints of merit are the ones from the original source. It's a bad double standard that I understand where they're coming from, since a dub can't make canon what isn't from the original, but at the same time, you're right, we do have a lot of dub-added hints in the others. Ultimately, we're catering to an English speaking audience, and I wonder in that case, maybe there should be a separate section on the article for dub stuff, since that is the version most people are familiar with. *rubs neck* But then comes being trouble in its own right, since most of the fanbase couldn't decipher crud for the raw version of their ship enough to make the comparison. Maybe a tag. (DUB HINT blah blah blah.) Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 04:03, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Confidence in abilities

Sorry for bothering you again. I just wanted to know if confidence in abilities are valid hints. Like how Cilan didn't worry too much about Pansage being sick after Iris gave it the medicine she had made.

I'm asking because a user reverted an edit I made about Iris being confident in Cilan's abilities in BW019 on the basis that "having faith is not a valid hint". Even though he says it isn't valid, hints like those are all over the place. I'd just feel better having a clear answer from you as I felt the revert was a little unjust. Especially considering what he said afterwards which is untrue of what actually happened.

Though I do admit that if I am allowed to add it back, I will word it slightly differently. --ケンジガール 04:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Confidence is usually taken in the subtext of how the character is presented with its said (where the person is in the frame, like a close-up, or Ash's reaction to it), and can usually be a best-judgment thing. Having not seen the episode (yet?), I couldn't tell you if it should stay or not. ._. On the other hand, if it was put in there and even if it's a valid point, is it a valid hint without the shipping goggles? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 12:07, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Looking at it now, maybe this one particular isn't that strong, given how Iris put it. It was just the reason for its removal that bothered me. This is good to know that they are valid hints. Thank you for clearing it up :) --ケンジガール 13:55, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, it's definitely all about context and presentation. =) If the writers and animators want something to mean something, they will show it somehow, be it slight or obvious. That said, ^^; we might have to go through the rest of those kinds of hints. *grk* Toss-out lines are basically the same as being saved: nice to hear and see, but can it count? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:00, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Moves and abilities

Don't add the move tag. We know they need moved. All it does is create extra work removing it that could be spent moving the pages faster. MaverickNate 03:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

To answer you question...

Regarding your edit summary on Blaze, they are the same in DPPt as what you changed it to. --SnorlaxMonster 14:42, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Official guide proved wrong?

Hi, I saw this edit summary mentioning me and the guide on the White Forest page, and since I have been posting various things from it as what I believed was correct, I thought I'd ask, what in it is known to be wrong? About all I've noticed mistake-wise is stuff like an extra space before a closing bracket... Thanks in advance, Bluesun 11:25, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah, it was merely that the table you provided concerning the BC/WF trainers (I assume your thoroughness in double-checking what you've provided, so I assume the table is exactly what the guide says). First thing I noticed was how the trainers in Back City own the evolutions of the pokémon they generate in White Forest. The table you provided, however, said Lena generates Azurill when she owns Gallade and Gardevoir, meaning she would generate Ralts. But since we don't have Molly's trainer info to back the difference, I was simply using the table to reference the surfing pokemon, and not using it to enter /all/ the trainers in, only leaving out the ones we don't have the team info for. =o I hope this clarifies it. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
So rather, it's just a little infallible. That's it. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:55, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Ah, oh, I can be dumb sometimes. After I spent so long checking that table, somehow I swapped the Pokemon for Lena and Molly. Thanks for noticing, and apologies that I made a mistake like this. I've noticed too that they have the evolved forms in Black City, but they're not listed in the guide... Either way, I've now edited my original post, but if after this you don't believe in the accuracy of the rest of it, feel free not to. Sorry. x.x Bluesun 14:03, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
^^; I suppose I'm used to guides getting things wrong. Sorry for not asking if it was a mistake or not. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:46, 16 April 2011 (UTC)


What are all those oval things at the right side of the page? Sorry... I couldn't help asking. GAH- I keep forgetting the four tides, so here they are:Bulbamelia 01:14, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Those would be called User tags =) Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 02:07, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

But what ARE they? Sorry, I'm new so I don't know a lot of things.Bulbamelia 11:46, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

User tags are simply personal tags to tell people, in a nut shell, what a person is, does, likes, and owns. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 12:53, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

And how do you put one on your page?Bulbamelia 23:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I would advise you not to touch your userpage until the edit limitation has lifted, but you can view the code of the page. Anything that starts with Template: is used inside these {{}} brackets. If it's Template:User Shipper, you simply put "User Shipper" inside the {{}}. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 00:24, 20 April 2011 (UTC)


Come on, you know that it's stupid. That's not how Nintendo names characters. And I don't see how living in Castelia, not any other city makes a difference here. --Maxim 15:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Castelia's based on New York's biggest metropolis, while every other city and town in these games has never come close to being depicted as city-like before. =p The character who people confuse as Jewish by looks alone trains bugs in the big city? I think someone was having a giggle that day, because of ANY bug-based name they could have picked, they picked one that makes the longest stretch and happens to correlate to where he lives. And no, I don't know how TPCi names their characters, because I'm not on the localization team, and neither are you. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:32, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


Why exactly was this similarity removed? I'm a bit confused... Is it because Sewaddle has since evolved and may not have the same ability? If that's it, I can reword it differently. The point was that that both of their Pokémon had their abilities revealed in that episode. The similarity is not that different to the one about them both catching a Pokémon in BW035 which was left there. --ケンジガール 00:42, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, for butting in, but I really don't think that two trainer's Pokémon having both of their abilities revealed in the same episode counts as a romantic thing. I'm just saying. :--SuperAipom7 (Questions?) 00:46, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
It's not meant to be counted as romantic evidence. They're not even under the "evidence" part. It's more like trivia. All of the ships have a similarity section. --ケンジガール 00:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Again sorry, but didn't we delete all comparisons of anime Pokémon pages? Does this count too? :--SuperAipom7 (Questions?) 00:57, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
It is acceptable for Shipping as the page is mostly fanon interpretation anyway. --ケンジガール 00:59, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I'm very sorry. Just wondering. I don't really know much about shipping anyway. Sorry for that. :--SuperAipom7 (Questions?) 01:01, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
The wording made it sound like there was too much emphasis on them being "part bug with abilities starting with S". If the idea was "they were revealed at the same time," it's lost in the wording simply because that last sentence doesn't sound like an afterthought, but the main thought. Abilities being revealed is also a little too trivial. I know abilities being revealed is a big thing, but it strikes me more as really grasping to say something about the subject at hand. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 01:13, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
So... If it just didn't have that one part would it be okay? Worded like the Pokémon capture one? I'm not saying it's necessarily a "big deal", but it is a similarity. I know some similarities are omitted because they can change but that really can't. --ケンジガール 01:43, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I suppose? I mean, it can be rewritten, of course. I'm not against the idea; I like trivia. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 01:52, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Personal Pic?

On the PearlShipping page, there is a personal image, but it is an image of Ash and Dawn sharing a high-five. Is this really considered a personal image then? :--SuperAipom7 (Questions?) 01:33, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's not really doing anything for the article except being animated. The still-frame high-five is more shipper than that is, to be frank. If it were removed, I won't miss it. If it was meant to be a personal image and not an image uploaded for the purpose of being added to the article, it probably shouldn't be there at all. ...Which doesn't mean save it as a shipping image to preserve it. The image can go. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 01:44, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Official congratulations

Thank you for all the contributions you have made here, and welcome aboard the Bulbapedia staff (officially)! Jellotalk 03:43, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

\o/ Yay! I don't even mind the Gaga confetti! :3 Thanks, guys. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:41, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Anything I can do?

Do you know of anything floating around on Bulbapedia that I can help with currently? Just wondering. :--SuperAipom7 (Questions?) 01:31, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


Another Moderator told me that Pokemon that learn a move from a pre-evolution (but do not learn it themselves) should still remain on the breeding fathers list because they are still part of their natural learnsets. I don't know if that's changed / if you've heard differently from another higher-up, but I've reverted your edit for now. Examples where this also occurs is how Vibrava / Flygon are listed under Feint, while only Trapinch learns it and Vileplume is listed under Moonlight, when only Oddish / Gloom learn it.Gymnotide 11:09, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

If a pokémon cannot naturally learn a move in its own, why should it be listed as a father? If you have a Vibrava, thinking you'll be able to heartscale for Feint to breed onto a Gligar, you're basically giving false information, since it's not true. If it's listed in the can-learn list, it's a proper father. But if the only Eevee you have is Espeon with Psybeam/Morning Sun/Swift/Power Swap, you aren't gonna be getting a Rattata with Bite from it. Fathers should be the most readily available to have the moves in their move pool; if an evolution does not have said move in their move pool, they cannot be a father by proxy. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 12:25, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Alright. I wasn't sure, which is why I wrote on your talk page. Nearly all other breeding charts that I've seen has this error then--which is why I never edit them >___> However, thanks for clearing that up. Arcanine can't learn Bite in Gen II either. Gymnotide 12:59, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
(Or Gen III. Whoops.) Well, with the new tables, checking is now a lot easier. =) Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:02, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Noooo!! Arcanine learns Bite in Gen III :P But... What do we do about chain-breeding then? Some Pokemon list chain-breeding targets when they have non-chained fathers as well. Should these be removed? Gymnotide 14:06, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Ah jeez. I'm too used to thinking "start with Gen 2". Breeding should come in levels. If an egg move can be learned through a naturally-learned father, only those fathers should be in the table. If the father only learns the move through a TM/HM/tutor, that should be noted. And if the only way is through actual chain breed (regardless if their parent learned it naturally or through TM), only the earliest breeedable father should be in the table (meaning only Wailmer and no Wailord, and Mantine but no Mantyke, as examples). .... This makes more sense in my head. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:42, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me

Why wouldn't you change them all. It's pretty obvious that they will all need changed and that I haven't had a chance to finish what I'm doing, so I don't understand why you would leave it halfway done. MaverickNate 16:39, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Because the others hadn't been moved? It wasn't "obvious" at all that they all needed to be changed; maybe to you it is, but the constant moving of the TCG pages to new pack names is like a foreign language, so I'm not about to presume you're going to move the rest, if you haven't already. I just fixed the links so those pages wouldn't be "orphans". Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:49, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I guess I sometimes don't realize how foreign the way I try to do things would appear to other people not familiar with TCG. I'm sorry for the accusations. MaverickNate 19:46, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


I noticed that, in the past, you've helped fill the Trainer class pages with Trainerlist templates. I'm currently trying to update the pages of the classes from Colosseum and XD. We already have most of the information across the characters and locations pages. Do you think you could help out again?--MisterE13 04:29, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Mm. I can help, if you need me to. Any of the trainers completely updated and can be ignored? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:30, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Other than those which refer, and link to, specific people, Shady Guy, Mystery Man, and Mt.BtlMaster are all done. I'll keep you updated.--MisterE13 17:42, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Black and White

Do we have a ship for them? Truthseeker4449 00:58, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

It's called Agencyshipping. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:46, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
Of course its the last thing I would think of. Thank you Truthseeker4449 11:48, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Do you know if and when the ship will get a page? Truthseeker4449 21:37, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll that as yes and now. See ya. Truthseeker4449 23:55, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
You inspired it~ Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 23:58, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


Hi I want to create an article about shipping between Iris's Emolga and Iris's Excadrill - unsigned comment from Aliraichu (talkcontribs)

I do believe that's a no. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


Hey Luna, I was wondering if RocketShipping should be added to this page under the Electric Tale of Pikachu, as the pair do get married in that canon, and have a child together. Jo the Marten ಠ_ಠ 22:22, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, definitely. Probably a table, since the information on their EToP information on the Rocketshipping page is sparse enough. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:10, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


In the shipping article, HatThiefShipping, it's said that the name of the relationship between Ash and Ambipom is LapShipping. I tried to create the page, but could only come up with one sentence, and therefore was deleted. I was told to ask you for permission to create it. If there is a shipping name that is listed but hasn't been created, I think it's time to do so. What do you think? Satoshi101 01:41, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

HatThief and Lap are 'ships that both belong in the same article, because you're dealing with the same two characters (evolution doesn't change that). If you wish to contribute to Lapshipping, it should be done on the HatThief page. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 03:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Alright, that sounds reasonable. Satoshi101 00:38, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


Hey I noticed you were the leader of Project Shipping, so I decided to ask you about this. I recently watched Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea again and I noticed possible hints between Lizabeth and May. I also noticed hints for Cilan and Burgundy. Should I make Userspace articles about them and hopwfully get them mainspaced soon? Pokedex493 00:49, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Cilan/Burgundy already has an article here: SommelierShipping, so any further hints you have to contribute can be added to that. As for Lizabeth and May (Braceletshipping), it likely does not deserve its own article and should be added to either here or here (either or; they'll be melded together eventually) unless it becomes obvious that it should be its own article. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 02:48, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


I know that sometimes you like to put categories in Shipping pages that are still in the userspace so people can find them an help contribute them before they are mainspaced. But I'm wondering if you can make an exception here. The user who made it has been gone for a long time and it doesn't have any real evidence. Like "Pachirisu standing next to Pikachu's ear" on that DVD cover. Really...? Not saying it has to be deleted, I just have a thing about it showing up in the Shipping space categories. However, it is your decision. I just see no hope for that article being taken seriously. --ケンジガール 03:46, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I didn't even know that one existed. Personally, not enough information to be an article on its own (and likely won't have enough ever), never mind it's not even the right name (Electrocuteshipping), but....think we could incorporate it into your anime list, for the time being? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:08, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I could try. So we can hide the categories so it doesn't show up there? --ケンジガール 21:03, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

this seems tedious.

Why you don't program Bulbabot to add the Evolution link on every pokémon's page for you? adding the links to 639 pages manually seems tedious.--My r6g4rdz, TEH GIGA-UBER-1337-HAX0R(Mr-ex777) 13:41, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

It only seems tedious if you don't mind doing it. I don't mind in the least (gives me something to do), and it's not just the only reason I'm going through every pogey's page. Some of the links are there and some are not, among other things. Simple as that. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)


He's LegandofThor2's sockpuppet; their edits are pretty much identical. Could you block them?--Den Zen 16:06, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Shipping Confusion

Good afternoon Project Leader,I have a question to ask. I've recently saw the pairings made in the Shipping section and came across this. -PalletShipping: Ash and Gary-

As I've seen in the anime there is no sign of attraction between these two,actually Ash doesn't show any sign of attraction towards no character especially boys. Also it would seem quite inappropiate to make homosexual pairings in the anime.Don't get me wrong,I am not homophobic. In the ending I would like to say that a possible Shipping could be between Brock and Wilhelmina as seen in For Crying Out Loud.

Thank you in advance. Looking forward for your answer. 14:31, 14 February 2012 (UTC) DJ Wolfy

The articles are to acknowledge belief and list what is used in canon to show why such a relationship might be possible. It's not inappropriate in the least, given the show canonically has pokémon falling in love with humans, so I'm not sure what your point is here. You aren't a Palletshipper; that's cool. Neither am I. Articles focusing on male/male and female/female won't be removed because people fear it "promotes" something (the anime barely promotes romance as is, and certainly doesn't promote most, if not ALL of the pairings made into articles); they will be removed if and only if they do not meet article standards.
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean others don't. It's called shipping goggles. And Sissyshipping (Brock/Wilhemina) had its time; it is acknowledge she was one of the few who liked him (and fewer still who he liked in return), and while possible, it doesn't make it any less speculative to be "possible" and remains a non-canonical belief. Like the majority of the shipping articles. I hope this answers whatever you were trying to get across. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Well,I didn't meant to say it promotes anything,I meant to say it's inappropiate to be called homosexual pairings.On the other hand if they are male the pair could just be called... PokePals or Buddies,would sound more appropiate.And about Pokémon falling in love with humans,they fall for them as a pet for its master.Well,hope I didn't caused much trouble.

Thank you for your quick response. 20:09, 14 February 2012 (UTC) DJ Wolfy

Then I'm not sure what you're getting at. 'Shipping is the belief of a romantic relationship, which means the term Palletshipping covers a homosexual pairing; to call it anything else is incorrect. Just because they are not a couple in canon doesn't make the belief of them a couple (thus "Palletshipping") any less gay. It's what it is. It's not a term for a friendship. ...And you might argue pet-to-master for Chikorita or Aipom, but most would agree that Latias was full-on in love with Ash (which is not the same thing as an adoring pet). And now I hope I've cleared up your inquiry. I'm sorry I misunderstod earlier. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 22:54, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Well,yes,but that may be because of Latias' possibility of gaining human shape,you can't really call it zoophilia or as it said in Pokéhistory "Evolution has come, separating humans from Pokémon, to create the first humans",meaning that humans and Pokémons ar from the same species "and one folk tale even says that there was a time when humans and Pokémon were considered one and the same".Well I still disagree with the homosexual pairing,and I say it again I'm not homophobic.I'm not against Shipping,I just wanted to clarify my confusion.Well that's it for now.Thank you for your help. --DJWolfy. 15:15, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Bulbapedia Issues

I've been having a lot of issues with Bulbapedia since BW2 was announced. I've been getting a lot of 503s and I'm starting to get annoyed. What's going on and why are the 503s happening? Pokedex493 18:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It's due to the influx of users post-announcement. Seeing as they hit after big news, 503s are to be expected while more and more users access and view pages. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Shipping Splitshipping (Clay x Elesa)

I was told you were the person to come to for this.

I was sleep deprived when the paring popped into my head and upon looking it up i got Splitshippin, the "split" being Driftveil Drawbridge


Elesa is a fashion model and would likely have rich tastes...and Clay is rich

That's all i could come up with without knowing if she has daddy issues.

So should it be added to the list Yamitora1 01:08, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

As much as I like Splitshipping personally, it's got only one interaction for a basis, and even then, all you could say at most about them canonically is "Clay trusts Elesa when it comes to trainers," but that's games only. That's not enough at all for it to have any sort of mention for it as an article or part of an article, though I'm hoping BW2 will shed more light on their relationship, if there is one.
That said, looking at what you were talking about with KG, Splitshipping /is/ on the Shippers' List. It's just that the Shipper's List and the list of 'ships here aren't one and the same; the list on BP is only for 'ships that have their own articles or are mentioned in group articles. The only complete version of the Shippers' List is here.Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 10:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Ok Yamitora1 15:05, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I've been having some problems

A user named Force Fire has been increasingly difficult for me today, he seems as if he is following me, undoing almost everyone of my edits. I'll put down an 'incomplete' template and he'll remove despite the sections being missing and he has also removed my featured articles nomination, implying my opinion to nominate the page, Brock's Steelix, are wrong despite it fitting the critera and that their has been no vote. I've tryed to speak with him on his talk page but he does not reply and in edit summaries he justifies his actions by saying he is a junior admin. I think he is an admin but I still feel hasseled and partially victimized

My other problem is actually nominating the page, never done it before and I'm not sure I'm doing it right Diamond Lanturn CodeName: 05308 14:21, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry ArcToraphim. 05308, you did not ask for the page to be nominated. Just because it fits the criteria doesn't you can go ahead and slap the FAC template on it, you have to ask first. I did reply on my talkpage, did you see it? I'm guessing you didn't. --ForceFire 14:30, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


Remember this is my point of view and no I'm not shipper, I like to create shippings.

Fireflowershipping= Chili/Cilan Waterlilyshipping= Cress/Cilan

How do I rename? - unsigned comment from Grabbergirl (talkcontribs)


I see you added some, and said they're south of Resort entrance... but can you screenshot them, please? That'll make the job easier, as I have no idea where is the entrance. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 08:17, 28 June 2012 (UTC) PS. Also, these are the trainers I found in that street (so far only six that can be battled). Well, I found a Backpacker* when going towards Desert Resort (near that road with trucks), but I don't count him, as he isn't on the street. Also, is it just me, or that Breeder will rechallenge if you quit area, reenter it and go to the Breeder again?

I'm watching playthroughs, so I'm not in control of the action, and the only ones that seem to be up are Black 2. That said, whatever's in your screenshot, I've never seen before. Granted, I thought the policeman were only at night, but Danny and Nelson look like they're in daytime, so I could be wrong. This is what I mean. You enter route 4 from Nimbasa and hang an immediate left-screen turn. At the end of that road, travel south and you run into another officer and the remaining trainers. Bonus officer Brian in the last screenshot, between the road and two fishermen. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:26, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
I've never seen them... and it seems that instead of Officer, I have Backpacker. They're most likely exclusive to Black 2. Now only the matter of items left... Marked +-+-+ (talk) 12:27, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Dark rustling grass.

Can you please say the name of place/route where you experienced (or saw someone experiencing) that? Dark rustling grass can be interesting. In some places just dark grass has different set of Pokémon, rustling grass always has some new Pokémon. That would be nice to see. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 16:32, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Haha, it was in Pinwheel Forest, by the Lass and Youngster west of the bridge. It was a double battle with an Audino and Pansage. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:35, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Were you tagging along with Cheren? I tagged along with Cheren when I first entered Pinwheel Forest and I encountered three rustling grass double battles (one with 2 Audino, another with a Audino and a Pansage, and the last one with a Audino and a Panpour). However they were in the plain grass, but they were double battles since I was with Cheren. Also last time I checked (which was yesterday for the Dark Grass) the only Dark Grass is east of the Bridge and not west. Lady Ariel (talk) 16:50, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Ahhh, that might have been it. Hard to tell with the videos I'm using. yeah, we were with Cheren so I guess I mis-saw what the grass was. Pity; rustling dark grass would have been nice. But I thought there was dark grass in the south west? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Challenge mode

Serebii isn't a good source, but according to it, Challenge mode =/= post-game rematch, as you can turn off and on it whenever you want. Click*. Marked +-+-+ (talk) 18:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

That's not the problem. What we have as labeled on Iris' page is "normal mode" and "challenge mode", though this seems to be wrong because I just encountered a video labeled "challenge mode" that used the team of "normal mode" at elevated levels, so it doesn't seem post game at all. So the question is, IS in fact what we have labeled as normal and challenge really just "Initial battle" and "Rematch battle" (and if it is, do we even have the right levels for the second team)? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 19:31, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Plasma Frigate

Hey I am gallade98, a new user on bulbapedia.Nice to meet you. I was just asking if you can help me finish all the Plasma Frigate information.I think i have most of it done, i just need to make sure i have all of the items and trainers correct. Thanks in advance. :D


You said: "The use of English "typhoon" is correct., as "fuu" =/= "phoon"." Going to need an explanation of your reasoning there. The English word "typhoon" has common roots with the Japanese word "taifuu" and they literally mean the same thing; the "phoon" is equivalent to the "fuu" (I tried to highlight this in the edit summary). Given that the kanji in "bakufuu" (which is on its own a visibly obvious source for the name) is exactly the same as that in "taifuu", such an origin would be redundant - you could just as well explain the name "bakufuun" as simply adding an "n" to the end of an existing word. If we look at the word "typhoon" on its own, all we would be getting is the "n" sound. That could just as well come from any other word with a similar sound (some candidates may be raccoon or dragoon, but there's no real limit here), or even be just an addition for the purpose of style, with no particular meaning behind it apart from making the name distinct from the real world. If "typhoon" is going to be included as part of the Japanese name origin, it should be properly explained and justified, or attributed to an official source. There is, on the balance of evidence, no reason whatsoever to think that the word "typhoon" is relevant to the name.Drivorobotnik (talk) 04:19, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

But since only the katakana says 'bakufuun', you're looking at the name all wrong and why that section even exists. Since the official spelling is Bakphoon, the name origin is used to explain WHY it's intended to be spelled that way and not as 'Bakufuun' (which no one has to justify since it's not romanized in such a way and is not the intended spelling; it's simply the katakana that makes it up). If the official romanization had been Bakufuun, it would have then been likely suggested to be a corruption of 'bakufuu' and a combination of 'bakufuu' and 'taifuu', since 'Typhlosion' has to get its random 'typh' from somewhere. A lot of name origins also rely on looking at all the other languages to see how they were gotten, since localizers use the root origins as inspirations for their own lingual names, so since the English name is a combination of 'typhoon' and 'explosion', and 'bakufuu' means 'blast', the typhoon in Typhlosion seems to come out of nowhere, except when you realize 'Bakphoon' has the same 'typhoon' word origin. And this isn't the first time a Japanese name has been spelled with a combination of Jp and Eng words. So no, there is no reason to explain the origin of the word 'typhoon' as possible 'taifuu' when 'taifuu' has nothing to do with the spelling 'phoon' and 'typhoon' possibly does. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
It seems as though you've either misread or misunderstood. I'm not saying that "taifuu" is the origin of the Japanese name - simply that there's no need to consider an origin other than "bakufuu" as it is. The consideration that the "fuu" in "bakufuu" and the "phoon" in "typhoon" is peripheral support for this perspective - a repeated etymology makes little sense. Indeed if you look at the edit I made, I did not (and did not suggest) replacing "typhoon" with "taifuu", but rather, determined "typhoon" to not be necessary (and so neither "taifuu"). I feel that the English name is of little relevance here - although if we are to raise the point, and accept as true the premise you have presented (that English names are constructed to be distinct from, but linguistically similar to, Japanese names), then my aside may be considered, since, after all, that kanji which provides the "fuu" sound is a solid link between "typhoon" (for "Typhlosion") and "bakufuu" - but that is tangential at best. Rest assured that I am not "all wrong" - indeed I myself considered the listed romanisation, and am ready to admit that it would present a fatal flaw to my reasoning. Be that as it may, I cannot, try as I might, find any sort of reliable source for the romanisation "Bakphoon". Were such a source presented, I would be perfectly satisfied with the information currently listed - although I may make the suggestion that a more concrete policy on referencing is adopted and enforced so as to avoid such confusions.Drivorobotnik (talk) 17:00, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Official romanizations of older Pokémon have been confirmed and known for ages, because they are very often used on merchandise. Here's the piece of merchandise Wikipedia cites. --SnorlaxMonster 17:31, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Having trouble qualifying that source. The Wikipedia page on Typhlosion specifically lists the name as "Bakufūn", and although the page that cites the image you shared does list "Bakphoon", the reference is to a Bandai product (which, from the look of things, seems to be an obscure collectible, from the look of them they may be from gashapon toys; I am unable to find mention of this set of cards, even on Bulbapedia). This raises the question of whether, in light of the franchise's ownership, third-party (albeit presumably licensed) products are a proper source of definitive canon names. Without verification of this, the best we might say is that, on this set of cards released by Bandai, the romanisation given to Typhlosion by Bandai would appear to be based on the word "typhoon" - that, to me, does not sound like any sort of concrete statement, as it lacks authentic support from an authoritative source of canon. On a side note, that particular image seems to write Buizel's name as "Booysel", not "Buoysel" (which is what has been used) - this should raise doubts about the suitability of a low-resolution image as a source.Drivorobotnik (talk) 01:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
They are given the official romanizations. And yeah, it probably is an obscure piece of merchandise, but the fact that it and every other piece of merchandise with a romanization of the name on it use that romanization means that it is pretty obvious it is accurate. Merchandise is the primary use for official romanizations, so we should rely on it, especially when it is a major company like Bandai that makes a lot of it. Buizel's name is chopped off in the middle; it still says "Buoysel", the bottom of a "U" just looks the same as the bottom of an "O" in that font. And my point was not the content Wikipedia has, but their source; what is actually on Wikipedia is unreliable and irrelevant if unsourced (and even if sourced, it is the source that matters). --SnorlaxMonster 12:26, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
I am somewhat confused; it seems as though none of Game Freak, Nintendo, or The Pokémon Company have used these romanisations in their products. Bandai is indeed a major company which releases a lot of merchandise, but they do not own the intellectual property behind the franchise. What that source seems to tell us (and what I acknowledged earlier) is that those particular Bandai products have been named like that - it does not, beyond allowing such a statement, seem authoritative. I would have strong reservations about regarding Bandai as any sort of official source for canon information. And, as you said, it is the source that matters. Could you perhaps explain the rationale here?Drivorobotnik (talk) 06:31, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


Luna, do you know this user? Because... AdynizWanna talk? 15:31, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

To answer, no I don't know the user (just had really good timing coming on to fix that article). Beyond that, I'm a little baffled? Could be any number of reasons it was done. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:12, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I asked because I wanted to confirm it before undoing it, the timing got me confused. Anyway, carry on. AdynizWanna talk? 16:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm that user. I'm SO sorry! I'm still a little new around here, so I accidentally clicked something and got confused in all these different tabs of Bulbapedia editing. (I keep different tabs open so I can see all the tags and how to write the language while editing.)I am so sorry about that, and I tried to fix it as soon as I could. I won't do it again, I promise! Empress Empoleon 18:33, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


Hi again. Sorry to keep bothering you. Anyways, ShootsDownShipping is the ship between Kenny and Zoey, and it's actually grown quite popular as a side ship in Fan fiction. I know that Bulbapedia used to have a page, but then [2]deleted it because of a lack of evidence; so I was wondering if I could make a new one. I believe that I can flesh it out. Empress Empoleon 18:33, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

If you want to make a page of it, make it in your own userspace, flesh it out there, present it when you think it's done, and I'll see if it's worth ti to put in the shipspace. But if it doesn't have the evidence to support it, no amount of information on the page is likely going to make a difference. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 20:49, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Problem user

This user is undoing various edits for no reason at all. Frozen Fennec 23:09, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

RE: Signature

Thanks, I will remove it. Sorry about that. --Pokemon Trainer Bowser Jr. 17:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

List of Conquest Abilities Page

Do you think that page is good enough to be moved to the mainspace now? --It's Funktastic~! (talk) 21:56, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Now, it is. =) All moved. Good work, by the way. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 10:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


Can you undo those last two edits by Cutieblue369? All they did was remove lots of info, and in general, be completely unhelpfull.--×Rsrdaman× 03:16, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Undo entirely, not necessarily. Some of the info deleted was fine to delete. Not all of it, though. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:00, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

thanks for fixing my edit

i forgot vaniluxes name and for some reason i thought it was vanillite Pikachu Bros. (talk) 21:47, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Well it was my mistake to begin with, ^^; the one you were trying to fix. So it's okay. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:49, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

A little help here, please?

I've just found some Pokédex info about SolarBeam in the anime. Could you please correct the red link on the template? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 19:43, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! :) --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 19:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm never doing that again. But you're welcome. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 20:01, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry if I bothered you. You were just the only administrator I found currently active. I regret if I disturbed you in the middle of something important. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 20:20, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Oh, no no no. XD; Not what I mean. I'm not a fan of editing templates; it gives me panic attacks. And I'm pretty sure editing that template made the whole site hiccup and toss a hissy, so, yes. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:06, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Should there...

Should there be a shipping page about Ash and Casey? --Doggy567123 (talk) 06:19, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Really sorry for the late reply. Should there be? Don't know. Could there be? Depends. If anyone think there should be an article on a 'ship, all that person has to do is draft a page up in their userspace and show it to me to judge. If there's not enough solid material on the characters, it's not accepted, and if there is, it is. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 14:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Also sorry for a VERY late reply. And how do I do that? --Doggy567123 (talk) 17:21, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

What was wrong with the trivia I added about Shedinja?

You removed my trivia and didn't really explain why. I know you said in the revision history of Phoeboe's page that " "Easy" or "hard" is subjective", and I know what you mean by that. But was there any reason you removed the trivia I made on the Shedinja page entirely? Just curious... TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 19:45, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

The trivia itself only has relevance to Phoebe and her team. It's not relevant to the Shedinja species as a whole, especially with the lack of an actual example (and even if their had been, it's still specific to Phoebe only) and therefore speculative (it was equally speculative on Phoebe's page [because of the guessing why; we don't guess in these cases], but the subjectivity was simpler to explain). Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:10, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I understand. By the way I'm glad to be back. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 21:17, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

New Shipping

I'm making a proposal of a new Shipping, my first one, I don't watch episodes that frequently, but from what I heard, this pairing is very notable. However I can't find a name since all of them have such complicated name origins. What name would you give to a Shipping between Stephan and his Sawk? Do you think that it is notable to put on a page or put it here?--Igor (talk) 19:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

It's called BuildUpshipping. That said, I don't believe it's notable enough to have its own page. Before putting it on Kenji's page, though, can you provide hints/evidence for it? There's little point creating a template for it and then leaving it empty. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 20:15, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I have points to consider:
      • In Sawk's debut, Stephan became eager to introduce it in his battle with Iris, during battle he showed to have teached Sawk to be immune to other Pokémon's Attraction (if you get what I'm saying), and he comforted him in the defeat.
      • In the Bell festival, Stephan chose him over Zebstrika. In the first round, Sawk refused to give his belt to Stephan, but in the end he gave anyway, in this one I think Sawk was just playing hard to get.
      • The Clubsplosion was entirely focused on Sawk and Stephan. They even hugged each other while smiling when they won.
Well, my points are these, what do you think? BuildUpShipping, where did you get this name from? Can you write down the kana and kanji for this name?--Igor (talk) 21:05, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
The name was made up by a user; what the exact reason for choosing it was, though, I haven't the slightest, but I assume it's based off "to build up muscle/strength." The kana would likely be ケニダゲ, but I dunno if that would romanize as KeniDage or KenDage or KenyDage. That bit about Stephan training Sawk to be immune to Attract is out. You're going to need to explain point 2 much better, since what does the belt have to do with anything, and could it really be called "playing hard to get"? Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

A large recent edit to the RocketShipping page

Hello. There was a large edit made to the RocketShipping page recently. It has been reverted, but we were hoping you could look over it and see if any of it should be added back or revised. Here [[3]] is a link to the differences between the additions and the revert. Thanks! Crystal Talian 08:41, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

*salute* Thank you, too. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Conquest Armies

With the template changes and such, the bottoms of them aren't showing up as rounded now. A heads up, if you know how to fix it. Drake Clawfang (talk) 18:09, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

They look rounded to me. No corners are sticking out the bottom. Nothing I'm doing is touching the "roundy" anyway. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 18:15, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Hm, perhaps it's a browser thing then, on Chrome I'm seeing this. Drake Clawfang (talk) 18:52, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
On firefox, I'm seeing this. However, the corners were there before I touched the tables; they vanish afterwards, so it's probably how the browsers render the coding. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 18:58, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Hm, looks like it's still there on Firefox, the round on the bottom is different from the top, it's just not going outside the border. Not sure how to fix it though, I've no idea how the coding or templates for coding work here for rounded corners. Drake Clawfang (talk) 19:00, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Did I misplace this?

I'm a little new to all of this, but I had a question regarding creating an article for a certain shipping, and I'm not sure if I put it in the right place. I go into detail here.

Magenta Fantasies (talk) 23:21, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Here might have been a better place, but I answered, so~ Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Here is what I have so far for an article (for manga CrystalShipping): What do you think? Magenta Fantasies (talk) 01:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, I have to question: how is it a hint Eusine "takes Crystal's place" on the orphanage trip? Did Eusine drop the autographed card on purpose, or was it an accident (as to have pre-signed photo isn't uncommon among those who thing of themselves as super famous or whatever)? How does she worry about him in round 129? (Also, made some small edits.) Not a bad start, though. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:32, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

With the "taking Crystal's place on the orphanage trip" Eusine went out of his way to do something nice for her I assumed that he dropped the card on purpose, since Eusine asks Crystal her name, but he doesn't give her his (if you don't think these are good enough hints, I'm okay if you remove it). Maybe "worries" isn't the right word, it's more like she looks at the walkie-talkie doll Eusine gave her and thinks about him.

I really hope this isn't a rude question, but could this be made into an actual article at some point? Rather, how do I go about doing this? I bet other people would have shipping hints to contribute to this page, and I've seen many shipping pages with less hints than this (also, Crystal and Eusine appear together for a relatively short amount of time compared to many other manga-related shippings). Magenta Fantasies (talk) 04:54, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

The articles you're likely thinking of are in the process of being moved and also didn't start as userspace articles; some where just quick and dirty creations left to rot, as it were. So while yes, it can and will be moved, I'd just rather it be a little fleshed out before moving it, that's all.
Context is important. Vague wording can make anything sound like a hint, so in cases of people who don't have the manga or anime or game right out in the open for them, context explains the situation. Did Eusine think of doing something nice for Crystal by taking her place, or was it circumstantial that his choice to take her place just happens to be something nice? It's why some "evidence" on other articles comes with notes on how to interpret an action. So if context on the thinking-about-him bit and the orphanage can be expanded further on as to why it would be a hint, we'll see about keeping it. I'm still iffy on the card thing, but I'll think on it. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Puzzle Village

Doesn't this mean that we should put Puzzle Village on the list of wanted pages? TheShinyRoggenrola (talk) 20:00, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

It's already there by default, because it's a red link. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 20:20, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
I noticed that you previously deleted the Puzzle Village page but still put the red link back into the article. Was it just a badly written page? If so, I think I can make a decent one given a day or two. AGGRON989 21:10, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, the original attempt at making the Puzzle Village article was 'badly written' (it was a single line of text and a picture). So if you want to remake it, that would be fine. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:27, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I'll definitely make the article, but I probably won't finish it today. AGGRON989 21:58, 9 April 2013 (UTC)


Have you looked at the picture? How is the head fin not color light-blue? And how is the tail fin light-blue? And where should I put the flexibility part?Gelato Gelato (talk) 11:37, 7 April 2013 (UTC)Gelato Gelato

If you read the physiology, it cites Mudkip as "blue"—which is is—and if its body is blue, and its head fin is the same exact color as the body, its head fin must also be "blue." Now its underside is cited as "light-blue"—which it is—and if its underside is light-blue and its tail is the same exact color as the underside, its tail fin must also be "light-blue." Furthermore, if the body is blue, and the underside is of a lighter shade, why would the underside not be called light-blue in comparison to the body's darker shade of blue? (So I don't even know where you're looking; its head fin is the farthest thing from being called "light-blue" when its body [including its head fin] is basically the same shade as Swampert's, which is also not "light-blue".)
And the flexibility is a non-issue. It's a tail and tails move; calling it a tail fin is enough to imply flexibility. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 12:20, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Undone Edits

You undid my edits to the number disimbigs saying that "it IS only regional pokemon mentioned", however, it mentions for every Pokémon that they are the number in a specific regional Pokédex, and if applicable National, so it ISN'T just regional Pokédex mentioned. -EVsandIVsaurs 14:08, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Before changing it, you may want to bring it up with someone higher up, since regional Pokédex is actually more relevant to the numbers themselves as opposed to Pokédex (mention of the National dex number or not). 01:29, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
So one of the Bureaucrats? -EVsandIVsaurs 14:22, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 19:14, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


Is there any reason for telling me off for editing this page? Even better, is there any reason for removing several templates and categories from said page even though I didn't add some of those? --Reliジーランス? 18:39, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: Re-reading your comment, it appears that you, the user who created that page, and the other person who edited the page earlier are the only people allowed to edit that page.

Because it's a personal page. As in, it's never going to be namespaced. So no one should be editing it. And because it'll never be namespaced, it should not have categories or those templates. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 19:14, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Running with your argument again, this page by the same person will never be mainspaced, but yet has categories + templates. Heck. Even one of my pages has cats yet will most likely never be mainspaced. Also, IF nobody but the author who created the page is meant to be touching a page in the user namespace, then articles such as this one shouldn't be edited by anyone other the the author. --Reliジーランス? 19:22, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

That last page you listed says directly at the top that anyone may edit the page. Pikachu Bros. (talk) 19:25, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Yess, I know that. But this person stated that NOBODY but the page author should be able to edit pages in their user namespace zone. --Reliジーランス? 19:28, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Please read the Bulbapedia:Userspace policy for more information on WHY you're not allowed to edit userspace articles. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 19:30, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I read the policy. I'm not stupid. But eh, I don't care much for rules anyway. I think my edits were pretty much justified. --Reliジーランス? 19:36, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

And all I asked was that you don't edit it. It's not your page, you don't have permission, and you claim to have read the policy, but thought you could refute my statement by arguing against what you possibly already knew? Or did you read the policy after I mentioned it's not in your right to edit it? ...And mind, if you don't care for rules, you won't then be surprised if you fine yourself eventually banned some time down the line (temped or perma'd). Just saying (not a threat; just stating a fact). Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 19:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

None of my edits so far have broken any rules, so I'm safe. Also please don't try to continue this argument because I honestly don't care anymore. --Reliジーランス? 19:50, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

About Clair's Druddigon

We all know that it's going to appear in the anime, so what's wrong with adding it to the page?? When it does appear, just change the picture. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 09:51, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Policy in this instance is to wait for the episode to premiere; that's just how it's done, even when we know what a major character will have. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 10:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

gender due to name

If a nickname of a Pokémon does not determine the gender, what about some of the other pages such as these two as their gender was listed/determined due to nickname? PattyMan 21:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Meg is part of a pair of nicknamed pokémon, not a solo act, and those nicknames are derived from the species, not the gender. It's definitely meant to be a close-sounding name to Mag, like Belle and Bella or Gigglybiff and Gigglybuff, and very likely not reflective at all of any gender; that's getting into a really grey area of assumption. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 21:31, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I see now, Meg and Mag. PattyMan 22:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

About Kenshin and Shingen's default Pokémon

The reason I had placed the notes on their default Pokémon saying only in the other's story is because they don't have a default in their own story, seeing as they are controlled by the player, and both join the player during the Legend of Ransei. In hindsight, I see one circumstance where they could have default Pokémon in their own story, and that is if the player does not deploy them at all in the Legend of Ransei, causing them to never be officially registered in the gallery. Schiffy (Speak to me|What I've done) 00:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

And that's why I note "regardless of one's gallery." You may as well go around notating on all the characters saying "Only in this story, this story, etc, etc" for every story in the group of stories they belong to except their own. But that would be a lie for the very circumstance you just pointed out.
If Kenshin has a Gallade in Shingen's story, then that's what he would have in his own story if he was never registered in the player's Gallery, because it's default in Shingen's. Nene will always have a Croagunk in every Ninja story, even possibly her own as long as she's not in the Gallery, because it's true for the rest. Defaults don't change outside story blocks. Which is why the note is unnecessary. It's not "that story only;" it's his default!default for both. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 00:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I understand that. My reasoning had been, and I will state it again, that Kenshin and Shingen are guaranteed to join the player's army in the Legend of Ransei. However, when making that edit, I did not take into account that they actually need to be sent into battle to be registered, which was a mistake on my part. Schiffy (Speak to me|What I've done) 00:46, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Totodile and Typhlosion

I need your opinion on these two topics since there hasn't been a response to those lately and you're the expert with the genders and shipping. PattyMan 03:36, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

That's really an area for Kenji-girl's call. Romance doesn't have much to do with it (since even Ludicolo is unknown and it had the "stint" with Mawile), and I wouldn't call a gender without actually using gendered words. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:43, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
I do agree with you about romance not being gender worthy. Not to mention that there was Misha's Purrloin and most recently, Jamie McGonnigal's wedding. Yes, I will talk to Kenji-girl about this. PattyMan 14:39, 22 May 2013 (UTC)


On several versions of the official site, Vivillon is confirmed to evolve from a Pokémon called Spewpa. [4] ----samm :) (talk) 15:23, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I found it. =) Nice. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:26, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Global Project

why you undid ,my edit? of flag--Viv (talk) 15:27, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Because the page on South Asia covers multiple countries and no one flag should be used to denote it. I'm pretty sure it was left without a flag to begin with for that reason. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:35, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Lolipop song in eyecatch

For some reason I thought you might know this, or know who would know it. I've been watching Pokémon smash via stream for the last few weeks, and a Eyecatch keeps showing up with the 1958 song Lolipop playing. It doesn't seem to be the original US version, and all google searches result in Lolipop Chainsaw, or AMVs that have a different song titled lolipop in them

So my question is if you know the answer, is what group sings the Lolipop song for the eyecatches seen during Pokémon Smash? Yamitora1 (talk) 00:50, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah, nope. I don't watch Smash, and I don't know who does. Sorry. =( Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 03:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Ghost (type) trivia rewording + Nixtorm reversion

The Ghost (type) article has been protected, so I write here instead of rewording your rewording of the trivia point I submitted regarding Pokémon Conquest movement. This may also be better, as I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your rewording, which went (links removed): "although they do not fly or levitate, which allows further freedom of movement." → "regardless of typing or Ability, which allows further freedom of movement." Could you explain it, or maybe explain your interpretation of my initial submission? Also, regarding your June 6, 2013 revision of the Nixtorm article, did you test the additional requisites you added? It is effectively a reversion of my February 7, 2013 revision. Yvnr (talk) 07:19, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Your wording was poor grammar to the overall idea; if you think otherwise, please explain what you mean yourself and not ask me my interpretation. I knew what you were talking about since I've seen an obstructed Litwick walk right through an enemy to appear behind it, but otherwise your wording is confusing.
Since Duskull, the Misdreavus family, the Gastly family, and the Drifloon family all have a type (Flying) or Ability (Levitate) that will make them hop over the enemy instead of physically passing through them, it's fair to eliminate those as factors as to why a Ghost type might be getting around an enemy (which leaves Froslass, Spiritomb, the Litwick family, and the remaining Duskull family as examples of those that pass through enemies).
"although they do not fly or levitate" implies none of the ghost-type are possible of these things, which isn't true as mentioned above, so saying regardless of type of Ability makes it clear that even without Levitate or the flying type, they can get around enemies naturally with little hindrance. But it could probably use a modifier. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 12:06, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
The main text, which ends with "...a knight in chess)" and remains unaltered, explains the topic movement property of Ghost-type Pokémon. The additional information, which is what you've reworded and what we're discussing, is meant to serve as a disclaimer, stating that Flying types and Pokémon with Levitate also have this property, along with further movement properties, thus making them different (along with the animation discrepancy you're describing). While the wording of my initial submission did not make this very clear at all, I believe the point is completely absent after your rewording (possibly due to you misinterpreting my vague wording); to me, the additional information now reads "Ghost types have this property regardless of types or Abilities. This property allows them further freedom of movement." Also, I endorse the rewording to prevent confusion (main part of your response), but I don't see the point in going general ("types and Abilities"), when it only concerns one type and one Ability; the only Pokémon other than Ghost types that have this knight-like property are Flying types and Pokémon with Levitate. Thank you for correcting your mistake at the Nixtorm article. Yvnr (talk) 17:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Half the Ghost types in Conquest either have Levitate or are part Flying, meaning that should be accounted for and not implied to be otherwise, or else discounted straight out; I think either works. However, Ghost types aren't the only type with a special advantage (fire types can cross fire, water types water, ice types won't slip on ice, poison types aren't harms by poison pools; Flying types and Levitators have full access to any free square in their range regardless of obstacles, sacrificing physical touch to the ground [which has advantages and disadvantages]), and that's where your own point gets lost.
So if you forget about the second half for a minute, I need to ask: is the focus of this trivia about their ability, or is the focus on that the Ghost type's ability is comparable to a chess piece? Because if it's the latter, it should include "regardless of type," since it's the truth to the whole, and if it's the former, do understand the chess piece reference would (and should likely) be cut because it's detracting from the point of the ability, but without the chess piece reference it's not a special trait without outside explanation (otherwise all other type pages would have to mention every advantage their typing has on certain fields, and passing over or through an enemy isn't that different from crossing over [or even sitting on] a magma pit, since on a chess board, the other color is the only obstacle your pieces have).
I got the latter from you. If it's the former, let's call it what it is, since ultimately the reference to Knights isn't unique to Ghosts alone. "Ghost-type Pokémon which are not part-Flying or have Levitate are capable of physically passing through enemies, referencing the common belief ghosts in real life can pass through tangible objects. They cannot, however, in-game pass through with any other obstacle on the field." Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:08, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
And I apologize this reply took so long. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:09, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I figured it would be best to mention the similar property displayed by Flying types and Pokémon with Levitate to avoid confusion. My initial wording was misleading, yours I interpret as a partially empty statement of (I repeat) "Ghost types have this property regardless of types or Abilities. This property allows them further freedom of movement.", and it does not state the resemblance. My point gets lost because other types have certain movement properties as well, you say? When adding the information, it seemed clear to me that the movement properties displayed by types other than the Ghost type are self-explanatory and not worth noting as trivia points. They are mentioned in the Battlefied sections of kingdom articles anyway. This one was curious and more noteworthy, in that it does not resemble any main series property or concern tiles that are practically the type of the allowed species. The focus is, of course, the curious movement property, while the chess analogy is simply included to easily aid readers that are not familiar with Pokémon Conquest. You really think that every other movement property needs to be noted if this one should? You don't think this one is more notable? Either way, if that's what you want, just remove the point (or add every other in their respective articles). I think you can make it work via rewording, though, and if the chess analogy is what's keeping you from making sense of the trivia point, then cut it. Similarly, if you'd rather focus on/explain via the animation of passing through, then do that, since the point remains the same. The only reason I wrote you is because your new wording makes no sense to me and appears to misunderstand my initial wording (as described above), so it needs to be fixed, which I believe you'll do now, meaning we're done. Thank you! Yvnr (talk) 08:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Must discuss 団s meaning before editing

You undid a revision of mine and said that I must discuss 団s meaning before making these sorts of edits. I'm unsure why you say this. There was no discussion choosing to translate 団 as "gang", so there is no one to disagree with. I could stalk through the edit history and find who made the first reference to that and then hopefully contact them, but aside from that there is no discussion to be had. TJF (talk) 23:20, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

New discussions at the bottom of the page. Since the definition of 'dan' affects more than just the Rocket page, if you want to change it, you will need to actually discuss it. Regardless of your opinion, BP has taken the stance to use 'Gang' as the translation (so no discussion was necessary), and if that is the official translation, it cannot be changed to what someone else considers 'appropriate'. If it's simply the preferred translation and not official, you can make an argument for a change. So don't revert again until you've made your case and gotten a staff member's okay on it. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 23:32, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I intended to start this at the bottom, not sure what happened. I didn't realize you were an admin, so I didn't realize that you were actually speaking with authority on this. I thought you were just some random user. Where and how has BP "taken the stance to use 'Gang'", do you mean someone used that, and it caught on? I don't see how such a thing makes "gang" better than "team" or anything else, which are official. Regardless, since this affects more than the Rocket page, where would I have to make my case? Once I have done so, would you be willing to consider it? I also have something related to romanization (Suikun and Serebi) that I would like to discuss, where would I talk about that? Thanks. TJF (talk) 23:51, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
For romanizations, that's different. The species articles use trademarked spellings of the Japanese names, meaning if they aren't currently romanized the literal way (see the majority—if not all—the Gen 6 pogeys), then they're romanized with trademarks; literal spellings are found instead here. Sorry to say, you'll be out of luck on changing the species pages to Suikun and Serebi, since trademarks are official. As for who you would go to over 'dan', I would say starting a new discussion on one of the team pages might do it, if you're going to state your case, but there really isn't any strictly 'one' person to bring it to, since the teams cover multiple media and it's a case of translation.
Though for the record, even if I had been a regular user, undoing someone else's undo is the start of an edit war, which I hope you know is a no-no. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 00:25, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Shipping Trivia

As Drayden is making Iris a Gym Leader... it is an interesting one. This is Mkbw50 signing off 08:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

But she is /not/ one yet. When or if the day comes that it's confirmed Iris is a GL in the anime, then you may say such a thing. Except the XY anime is approaching, and if those companions turn out to be unrelated to either position as well, it will go away again, if it's back in the first place. (I'm also not a fan of comparing two positions which are unrelated, just to bring about a piece of trivia that basically says, "These two weren't important in promoting the anime's connection to the game.") Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:39, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Dragonite shipping page

Should there be a shipping page with Clair's Dragonite and Iris's Dragonite since they showed some relationship with each other in BW136 and that they're opposite genders of each other? The name of the shipping page should probably be something relating to dragons. PattyMan 02:49, 2 August 2013 (UTC)


I'm the new guy. I just wanted to know if it is possible to edit an article without the edit option. if it is possible, then how?? if not, then why?? (ShinyPancham345 (talk) 18:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC))

Hello. When an article is without an edit button, that means it's locked to your usergroup. If the protection level is up to autoconfirmed users, that means you must become autoconfirmed (which it appears you are not). Once you become autoconfirmed, if the page still doesn't have an edit button, only staff may edit the page and you will have to wait until that protection is removed. In the mean time, if you are unable to edit a page, you are allowed to use the talk pages to suggest information to be added to that article. =) I hope this helps. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 18:59, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Drifloon, Rotom, Cranidos and Teddiursa.

Been checking DW locations pages. They say these are available only when BW is linked. But on species pages, there is no note informing of that. I am confused... Marked +-+-+ (talk) 11:27, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the species pages for exclusive pokémon only reflect when it's BW2. There's no confusion; no one simply notated the BW exclusive pokémon on the species pages. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 11:47, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Speaking about Mega Launcher...

Could you please add a column here and here for Mega Evolution abilities? オリナル TheOriginalOne 13:40, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit Protected Pokémon Page

Can you remove the indefinite edit protection from Vivillon? Lady Ariel 22:35, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Taken care of. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 22:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)


I am new to this wiki and I come in peace. I have a question. Until when can I start editing my profile page as I can't edit it yet. - unsigned comment from Natural Harmonia Gropius (talkcontribs)

The privilege of page creation is given once users have been around for a specific amount of time and have made a certain number of mainspace edits (both numbers we can't give out). That will make you autoconfirmed and able to edit your user page. =) And also remember to sign with four tildes (~~~~) in the future, though if you don't remember and someone uses {{unsigned}} like I have, please don't resign, as that messes with time stamps. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:51, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


why did you remove the X5 after the 3 horde encounters in pokemon village? haveing the x5 for horde encounters is important so people know what they'll be batteling, especially since it isnt always going to be 5 of the same pokemon, yet having specific combinations of what can appear. such as in kalos route 20: Foongus x5 common Trevelant x5 Average Trevelent X4 + Sudowoodo Rare WA-Zergslayer (talk) 16:49, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I removed the x5 because it creates a redlink that's entirely unnecessary. Horde encounters always happen in fives, and only occasionally including anything else beyond the majority pokémon; that information bout numbers is for the Horde article and will become common knowledge soon enough not to bother addressing numbers. You cite Route 22 but you'll notice that that article lists Trevenant by itself, without the x5, and in the box, notes Sudowoodo's occasional appearance in that horde. That's an acceptable notation—without template tinkering—to handle the particulars of a Horde encounter. Creating links to "Trevenant x5 (Pokémon)" and (I assume by your thinking) "Trevenant x4 (Pokémon)" is not. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 17:30, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me...

I noticed that you've reverted some of my edits by changing move names such as Thunder Shock and Solar Beam back to single words. I hate to dissapoint you, but in case you didn't know, I was just correcting the names: they are written differently from X and Y onwards, so thanks a lot, NOT. Sorry for that outburst, but may I ask you the reason why did you do those edits? Didn't you know about this name change, or were there some other reasons? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:49, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

The revision summary here for example – pre-Gen VI material should use pre-Gen VI spelling – probably applies to all of those edits, and is at least in my opinion a very logical decision. Soulweaver (U.S.) (about me · chat · edits) 12:56, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
What SW said. Old games, old spelling and typing, as that is accurate to the games they apply to (you wouldn't change Charm on Red's Pikachu from Normal to Fairy, would you? No you wouldn't because it wasn't a Fairy move then). New spellings are only to be applied to the generation they appeared in and future applications, not the past ones. So yes, I reverted you, because those spellings for those parties are incorrect. Focus new spellings on Gen 6+, not anything Gen 1-5. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 16:12, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
I understand (even though "ThunderShock" used to be "Thundershock", and I don't see that bothering anyone). I'm just a guy who doesn't like using redirecting pages and likes the links to go straight to the proper page without as little redircetions as possible. Anyway, would it still be OK to fix the links in other pages at least? I mean those links that aren't in any moveset templates, such as in the anime/manga/etc. articles? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 06:56, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Why would you "fix" them? The moves were still spelled ThunderShock and SolarBeam when those episodes aired. Sounds like exactly the same situation to me. It's like how we don't put the Fairy coloring on templates on Misty's Togetic's page. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 07:02, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
When was it "Thundershock"? It was "THUNDERSHOCK" originally, but once moves stopped being in ALLCAPS in the games, it was revealed that it was "ThunderShock" all along; TCG spelling is unimportant. --SnorlaxMonster 07:13, 5 November 2013 (UTC)


Question you reverted a change made hereGoodra

is it better to add:

also, is it possible to add similar data to Pseudo-legendary Pokémon PortalDark (talk) 02:56, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Once Goodra has its own section on that page, any information unique to it will be there (so it doesn't have to be on their articles). Hydreigon's got the highest SAtt among the pseudos, but it's not mentioned on its individual article, but is mentioned on the pseudo page. There's also the Tyranitar trivia that conflicts with Goodra's SDef claim, seeing as a regular Tyranitar in a sandstorm has equal SDef to Goodra (Mega Tyranitar having even more than Goodra), and Sand Stream is an Ability natural to it and and its Mega form. So yeah, it's technically true, but only without this exception, and exceptions make for headaches. Best leave it for the pseudo page. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 12:26, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
true the Tyranitar issue(through the point is the base stats, not the altered ones)
thanks for the reply btw PortalDark (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Mega Evolution

No! There more than power surge, the Pokemons can still evolve into second and true final forms according to me. --Samueljoo (talk) 02:47, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Black OTK Socks

You're completely right. The table had no information for them, so I assumed that they, like the other rows I had been filling in last week, were simply an item that people knew existed at a shop but just didn't have the information for. I didn't even think to check the default clothing. Thanks for fixing my screw-up. Amimizunofan22 (talk) 00:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Japanese move redirects

Hey, ArcToraphim. I noticed you deleted one of the redirect to Hold Back, which is alright with me, but I do have something I wanted to talk about on redirects to moves. Basically, how do we handle redirects of Japanese translations? For Tackle we have redirects for the English name with the English name without the move tag, the Japanese translation with and without the move tag, and the Japanese text of the move. So, how do we handle those redirect in comparison to the move Hold Back? --Super goku (talk) 04:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

The standard two redirects are "English name" and "Japanese kana", and if someone wants to, "whatever the current Japanese translation is" (which can amount to a few choices, so already you can begin to see where this might be going). The problem with adding "(move)" to the latter is the fickleness of translations that come from hiragana names and katakana that aren't straight-out English mirrors (such as Afro Break). For example, I think "Go Easy" is a really good break down of the word Tekagen. Someone else with a better understanding of the translation might revert it back to Hold Back, obsoleting Go Easy. The French and German names of the move translate to Restraint (more or less), so that might wind up another translation used on the article, as analyzing names from the canon languages can also give the right feel for a Japanese translation if they're all similar enough. Even older moves can find themselves retranslated; it's not a stable practice.
Those "(move)" redirects are ultimately unnecessary for the long run (and are forgotten about after the short run). And to point out, the majority of the older "(move)" redirects were made earlier this year by someone with too much time on their hands (and not worth it to delete them all after so many were made); the more recent generations were because they went from long-standing Japanese romanization to canon English. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 13:14, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
I can see that besides the English and Japanese kana, redirects for moves should be double checked before adding. Anyways, are you sure that they shouldn't be deleted manually or by a bot? The only reason I added the unneeded redirect was because of the other redirects that used the format <move> (move). Removing them might help other users. --Super goku (talk) 23:59, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Berry Sprites

Shortly, I'm going to be creating pages for Kee Berry and Maranga Berry. I have sprites for them and Roseli Berry, but I can't edit the file pages for the other berries to know what appropriate templates and categories need to be given to the files. Drake Clawfang (talk) 22:54, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Shipping stubs

Hi Luna, I had a quick question for you. As you may know I'm not really even a shipper (when it comes to Pokémon at least), but nonetheless, I've come to believe that at least the most popular ships should still be documented for their history, impact on the fandom, canon references, etc. I think that for the shipping project to be taken seriously, many of the articles need a lot of improvement... (bad grammar, disorganized, lack of content, etc). While I personally think RocketShipping sets the example all the others should strive for, I appreciate that most ships haven't been around for as long, or the characters didn't interact as often, etc. So ultimately my point is - at what point is a shipping article no longer considered a stub? Having an idea of the criteria will help me clean up the articles, but it isn't really outlined on the Project Shipping page. Thanks in advance! --ZestyCactus 03:34, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

That would be a case-by-case decision. If it's clearly 'wow amaze' and huge, it's not a stub. If it's got every bit of information that can be squeezed out of it on there, even if it's small, then it's not a stub (though that might take knowledge on the couple itself). If it's gonna keep growing because it's current (Amour, Diode, whateverthey'recallednow), stub should stay on until it's either "big and/or extensive enough" or nearing the end of its run, like CafeMocha and Negai have. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 00:38, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Cafés need their own Article I think

I think the Cafés in Cyllage City, Laverre City and Anistar City should have their own article, perhaps one that showcases which Pokémon (if possible) can be seen there. I know the Johto beasts can be seen there, and I saw a Cyndaquil once. Is there enough to make these three into their own articles, or are they best kept on the city articles? Yamitora1 (talk) 12:57, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Honestly, I'm not sure. I also maxed out on species you can see in there, and without knowing what the limit is (because it's not just non-indigenous-to-Kalos species; I've been shown a Dunsparce), there's not much of a call to made, especially without research. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph
According to the JP guidebook 1, page 133...
At Cyllage, which focuses on Central Kalos Pokémon, you can be shown Masquerain♂, Delcatty♀, Kecleon♂, Axew♂, Carvanha♂, Munchlax♂, Dunsparce♂, Pidgeotto♂, Ralts♀, Riolu♂, and after the Elite 4 also Hitmonchan♂, Minccino♀, Togepi♀, Sealeo♂, Magby♂, and Raikou.
At Laverre, which focuses on Coastal Kalos Pokémon, you can be shown Kangaskhan♀, Mawile♀, Shellder♂, Bagon♂, Nidoking♂, Nidoqueen♀, Pachirisu♀, Staryu, Mime JR.♂, Yanma♂, and after the Elite 4 also Elekid♂, Hitmontop♂, Suicune, Porygon, Buneary♀, and Metang.
At Anistar, which focuses on Mountain Kalos Pokémon, you can be shown Accelgor♂, Bonsly♂, Aron♂, Chandelure♂, Escavalier♂, Zorua♂, Lotad♂, Teddiursa♀, Patrat♀, Larvitar♂, and after the Elite 4 also Entei, Hitmonlee♂, Eelektrik♂, Glameow♀, Happiny♀, and Duskull♂.
It also says that the one at the Terrace is deliberately chosen to be one you don't have, and the others are random. If there's Cyndaquil popping up too, perhaps it's not a full list, but hopefully this helps. Bluesun (talk) 01:14, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
That certainly helps! Thank you, Bluesun. As for a page, Yami, you could make an argument for one, now. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 01:43, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Well, I forget which café I saw the Cyndaquil in (pretty sure it was Cyllage or Laverre though. The old dude kicking the bucket kind of freaked me out, so I don't go to Anistar much >,>;; It was 2 weeks after E4, before I even went back to get my Pichu I left with him), but it was at the bar and it caught me off guard with both surprise and blinding jealousy that I wanted to bash the guy's head into the counter and take it. However that was before I knew about the Pokémon registering in the dex, but it was after the E4 and Looker Arc because I was bored and wanted to see if I could get TMs or something else from people in various buildings without looking online.
So there may be some random ones thrown in just for flavor, but your odds of seeing them are very slim my guess is. With 718 Known Pokémon, its probably more likely your game could glitch so that you'll run into a wild shinny Genesect before seeing a normal one in the Café. If I remember right, Guides are notorious for not showing everything, I mean even when it says "Complete Pokédex" new versions will have a even more complete dex like what happened with DPPt and BWB2W2. As for the Beasts, I in fact did see them at the Cafés mentioned, on the Terraces. And I'm actually at the counter in the Laverre café now, and the guy at the counter has a Suicune now.
I have yet to see Porygon-Z, so it seems the Terrace only generates pre-defined Pokémon you are likely to have not seen post E4. With the exception of the Johto beasts, most of those can be seen or obtained through breeding/evolution from Friend Safari Pokémon, so you could possibly see all the possible Terrace Pokémon in no time depending on luck.
I still am still getting the same message of "Excuse me! Did you check your Pokédex? There doesn't seem to be any Pokémon here you haven't seen... Do you still want to spend some time here?" and if I say no the guy promises "By your next visit, I'll make this café a café you'll love." But new Pokémon have yet to be generated. Besides Porygon-Z I have 43 legendary Pokémon I've yet to see/obtain which the game could easily generate if it was programmed to definitely generate Pokémon on the Terrace I've yet to see. So it does seem to have limitations to a point. I would also venture to guess that they have locked out some Pokémon from generating, so that secrete Pokémon can't pop up by chance. I mean if Hoopa and the other Ring Trio were real, it certainly would be a spoiler if a lucky person got to see one in the café before their official debut.
At the very least, we can probably make an article based off the guide listed Pokémon. I mean usually if its worthy enough of a section in a guide (can't believe they still make those let alone print them), it should be worthy of a article of its own. Natural Objects has its own article, and I think few people even know it exists. If not its own article, maybe put a list of the see-able Pokémon under each of the Café sections? Yamitora1 (talk) 12:58, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Here's a brief mock up of how the Pokémon listed in the guide would be shown. The colors used are taken from their respective cities.

Cyllage Café

Pidgeotto Pidgeotto♂ Dunsparce Dunsparce♂ Ralts Ralts♀ Masquerain Masquerain♂ Delcatty Delcatty♀
Carvanha Carvanha♂ Kecleon Kecleon♂ Munchlax Munchlax♂ Riolu Riolu♂ Axew Axew♂
Post Game
Hitmonchan Hitmonchan Togepi Togepi♀ Magby Magby♂
Raikou Raikou Sealeo Sealeo♂ Minccino Minccino♀

Laverre Café

Nidoqueen Nidoqueen Nidoking Nidoking Shellder Shellder♂ Kangaskhan Kangaskhan Staryu Staryu
Yanma Yanma♂ Mawile Mawile♀ Bagon Bagon♂ Pachirisu Pachirisu♀ Mime Jr. Mime Jr.♂
Post Game
Porygon Porygon Hitmontop Hitmontop Elekid Elekid♂
Suicune Suicune Metang Metang Buneary Buneary♀

Anistar Café

Teddiursa Teddiursa♀ Larvitar Larvitar♂ Lotad Lotad♀ Aron Aron♂ Bonsly Bonsly♂
Patrat Patrat♀ Zorua Zorua♂ Escavalier Escavalier♂ Chandelure Chandelure♂ Accelgor Accelgor♂
Post Game
Hitmonlee Hitmonlee Entei Entei Duskull Duskull♂
Glameow Glameow♀ Happiny Happiny Eelektrik Eelektrik♂

I left Gender symbols off Unknown Gender and single gender Pokémon. Yamitora1 (talk) 14:47, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

The Friend Safari Topic

Luna, while I understand the point you are trying to make as far as listing the Friend Safari on species pages goes, I think it might just be time to put this to an end. This discussion has been going on for for more than three months and has gotten opinions from no less than a dozen users, and it does not seem like anyone who has not been involved in the discussion thus far is going to jump in at this point. I am not trying to criticize anyone here, but I think it might be time for staff to step in and make a final decision. It's gone from prolonged to outright ridiculous, and if it goes any longer, the species pages will become more and more inconsistent with one another. Please, if you could, just consider my standpoint here when I say that it's gone on too long, and people are just repeating themselves. Nothing new seems like it's going to come up. Regards, Schiffy (瀬藤健二) (Talk Contribs) 16:33,2/5/2014 (UTC)

Why did you undo the edit

I'm posting this on your talk page because I want to avoid a edit war. But your undo on the edit for the Mega Evolution page was an extremely foolish act and also a bit of a dick move. Dianice, Volcanion, Hoopa, and Mega Latios and Latias where all leaked by the same hacker, and if Dianice is real then it's pretty much next to immpossible for the others to be fake. So please don't act like stuff is not real when its obvious that it is real ever again --AD2011 (talk) 21:31, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Since only Diancie's been confirmed, it's the staff's call on whether or not to acknowledge the rest of the leaked list (including the Lati's Megaevos) since it's no small deal...and not a regular user's. Until the staff decide to acknowledge them (or until they're officially confirmed), the other leaks are to remain unmentioned. I'm sure you can understand that. Kai * the Arc Toraph 22:07, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Since you're on...

...I was wondering if you could unlock Diancie or something? I was wanting to fix a description in the biology section that's been bothering me, haha. --FireGambit Contribs 16:45, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

No can do. All new pokémon articles are generally staff only until it's decided they aren't vandal bait. If you have any changes you want to make, you need to bring it to the talk page. Kai * the Arc Toraph 16:54, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Alrighty, thank you. The edit I wanted to make was pretty simple, I just wanted to change this part: "Its lower body is rough, with a pink crystal growing from it." Could you just rewrite it? --FireGambit Contribs 17:08, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
Yep, that's all! Thanks. -FireGambit Contribs 18:45, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Edit on Judgement(move)

Not saying you're in the wrong, but basically what had happened was:

  • Greener changed the Trivia entry to include speculated information about an event Floette:
14:08, March 2, 2014‎ Greener223224 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (5,081 bytes) (+55)‎ . . (Please hurry up with the Event Floette page.)
  • You removed the entire line of trivia:
14:22, March 2, 2014‎ ArcToraphim (Talk | contribs)‎ m . . (4,899 bytes) (-182)‎ . . (→‎Trivia: Not notable if its below another in power.)

Wouldn't it have been a bit more proper to just revert the edit? Just pointing out what happened, given that I was about to revert. --TruePikachu (talk) 22:36, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what the play-by-play is for, but I stand by straight out removal being correct in both the short and long run.
If Light of Ruin's power is greater, there's no point in keeping it if it's bound to be removed later once Light of Ruin is recognized; reverting it just to remove it later is silly. Along with that, I did considered a revert (because Light of Ruin technically isn't a "thing" yet, so "technically" it remains true that Judgment would have the strongest move that deals Fairy-type damage), but then decided that Judgment shouldn't count as a Fairy-type move in the strictest sense, even if its type is linked to a Plate (since it's the same case for the Dark type, and you don't see that on Judgment's article, because its splitting hairs when one considers the possible power of Fling or Punishment, and despite that, Foul Play has the trivia point on Dark-type damage...which I make no calls on, in case you were going to ask). Kai * the Arc Toraph 01:56, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

The Plot

I was wondering what i did wrong, i was the one that did the plot of x and y, so i can fix it and not do it again, sorry i'm kinda new at this. --Xerptic (talk) 15:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

The "plot" section is for following the storyline of the game in linear time, not written from the backstory to the start of the game. For an idea how the plot should be written, reviewing how it's done in the other articles (RB, GS, RuSa, DP, and BW), while keeping in mind the differences between both versions' stories, will help if you seriously want to give writing it a try. However, paraphrasing someone else's one-minute explanation of the plot is not how it's done, especially since half of the content of the video is either making assumptive claims (that do not belong in a place of fact) or flat-out wrong. So it's really for the best that you know the plot yourself before trying and not rely on an outside source's say-so. Kai * the Arc Toraph 16:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


Mecanno-man is doing a lot of editing of the language tags or whatever that appear at the end of many articles. I'm not 100% sure what purpose those serve (I think I know but I'm not sure) and I'm not sure of any sort of policy regarding them, but I'm concerned that Mecanno-man's edits are not all appropriate. For instance, here he removes the Japanese tag in adding a German one. Here he removes Spanish and Portuguese tags while changing the French one. Here he just removes the German one and here he just removes German, Italian, and Polish tags. And there are some others.

Should I just add back things I notice getting removed for no apparent good reason? Does Mecanno-man need to be warned to be more careful or something? I don't know these things... Tiddlywinks (talk) 12:31, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Grand Duke and player character for Battle Chateau Trainer classes

A couple questions about some recent edits you made/particpated in. My main question: when you made an edit to the Grand Duchess page, you removed Serena (the player character) from the members. What was the reason you did that? I ask because IMO the player characters should count as members, and I'd like it to see it added back to that page and the other Chateau classes it's been removed from (by others).

My other question is a bit tangential to the first, but it may actually be closely related to that answer. Were you aware that the Grand Duke page was previously decided to redirect to Calem, in lieu of its own article? Has the staff decided differently, or should the Grand Duke page be changed to redirect to Calem again...or...? Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:03, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

I removed Serena because Serena is only a Grand Duchess if the player gets the PC to that point, meaning it's optional, meaning it's misinformative to include her; as the NPC, she never acquires that title, and the intro already mentions that the PC may gain the title, which is enough. And linking to Serena just leads to the disambig, of which NONE are Grand Duchesses by default. If the NPC doesn't get the title, it should not include the PC (as you will notice that, aside from Red, no other PC is outright given the Champion title on their individual articles or even the Champion page, aside from the mention that the PC does technically earn the title if the player beats the game; the title itself is not default).
Yes, I knew that reason, and that situation has clearly changed, as you can tell from the article itself. Calem, as the only male capable of being a Grand Duke, got the redirect for lack of any real subject, because that's all the information there was on the title at that time. Now that the anime has given the title to a character who is not Calem (Grant), Calem is no longer a necessary vehicle and there is now enough information to at least give it its own article, small as it may be. So no, it will not be returned to a redirect back to Calem as, again, that's misinformative (since Calem's claim to the title is only dependent on the player) and ignores how the title is handled in another medium. I don't speak for the staff as a whole, but I'll go on a limb and say they would agree that it deserves its own article now, simply because of the anime. Kai * the Arc Toraph 14:26, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
I see. Thank you. Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:28, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Romanizations on Species page

It looks like Soincfunt was the one who first decided the Japanese names on Species should have hover-text romanizations, and since then, it appears people have followed that example. This includes you, in some of your latest edits.

IMO, those romanizations don't really serve any purpose; the translation column should be all that's necessary. When that sort of momentum has gone unchecked for so long (especially when a staff member has joined in), I'm not sure if I'd find myself "in the wrong" for removing so much content at once. So I'd like to know from a staff member (and one who's included romanizations): can I remove the romanizations? Tiddlywinks (talk) 16:08, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Short answer: no.
Long explanation: there are certain aspects that have Japanese transliterations listed somewhere. Moves, items, Abilities, characteristics, natures, and Pokémon names already do; why should species names be discounted? They may "serve no purpose," but they do remain a matter of interest, and there's no harm in preserving that. Since there is no List of species names in other languages article (but there probably should be), keeping the transliterations there serves the interest, even if they're in a tooltip. Kai * the Arc Toraph 17:02, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
I made this then. I haven't at this point bothered moving the Species names that have hover-text into their proper alphabetized positions, that's just where they ended up with the sort I put them through. And I don't know if maybe you'd want to cut "Pokemon" from those cells, but that'd just be a simple find-and-replace.
Can that be mainspaced and we just let it get filled in, and then I can remove the romanizations from Species? Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:40, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
No? That might not even be the most optimum layout (the c/p of the tooltipped names is already a foreseeable issue), and a 1/3 filled table is hardly mainspace quality. I suggest if you're hankering for a fill, you may want to inspect the German/French/Italian wikis to speed up the process since you seem to be in a dire rush (why? it's incredibly low priority) to clean out the species page. ...Which seems to be possibly aiming for a new article name, so to save yourself a possible move, you may want to wait until that's resolved, too. Kai * the Arc Toraph 13:00, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Low priority? To me, that would just be an excuse. (Mostly likewise for the question of a move.) I don't like to waste time; I could do it, and fairly quickly, so I did. And now some users have started filling out parts of the table. We're improving the wiki now, rather than "later". That seems like a good thing, to me... If it takes forever to be filled in and mainspaced, that's how it'll have to be, but before I resign myself to that, I will check out the other wikis, thanks.
When you say the tooltipped names are an issue, though, what do you mean? Just that they should be in their proper alphabetic positions? Tiddlywinks (talk) 14:18, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Following your suggestion, I was able to fill in all but Spanish and Korean. Is that enough to mainspace it?
We can still browse Poketeca via the Wayback Machine to fill in Spanish species (from before X/Y), but the Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis doesn't have a Korean member. I did find a Korean wiki on wikia, but is it okay if I copy species info from there? Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:10, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
For the tooltips, yeah, they should be in a better order and done as an * instead of over the entire name; there's nothing actually special about different formatting that it requires so much attention. Also consider that there is Mouse and Mouse: what's the difference? Who is the Mouse and who is the Mouse? That only the species are listed only helps a little. Who do they belong to? Aqua Rabbit you might remember is Azumarill, but...what one or five or a million Flying types is called the Bird Pokémon? Plainly: it's probably best you actually list them in dex order with corresponding Pokémon in a separate column, otherwise it's not really informative, and differences that affect one name for one specific individual might not have affected others; who knows.
Also, for Spanish names, you can use this. You could also use it for Italian (it), French (fr), and German (de), if you desire to double-check things. It won't cover pre-Gen 6, but it'll correct what's different from the wikis, since that seems to be an issue (or you could go over to the wiki and ask about it). For Korean, yes, you can use the wikia's information since the species names are just plain fact. However, if you don't wish to use that, the online Korean dex is here, though it lists only up to Genesect (meaning it's likely only Gen 5 info) and you cannot copy/paste (also, to bring up the Nat dex, there are 3 buttons on the top left; Nat dex is the middle one) (species names themselves are the line above the type listing) (so unless you're confident with a Hangul generator, you may want to stick with the wikia and use the dexes as a reference). The same goes for the Korean XY page, which would also have the species names here up to Diancie.
I know it's extra work to reseparate them back into Nat dex order with Pokémon attached, but with that, I'd say you could mainspace it without the Spanish and Korean not entirely filled in, but I would suggest a second opinion from another higher-up before doing so. If you filled in the rest before attempting to mainspace, you'd be good without one and I'd say go for it. Kai * the Arc Toraph 14:43, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the links and suggestions. I made changes and mainspaced the page with all columns filled in (minus Korean romanizations). If that was wrong or if I didn't actually make the right changes or something, please move it back to my userspace. Tiddlywinks (talk) 18:16, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Steel Type Defenses

Regarding the defensive properties of steel, I think it makes no sense to not include immunities. What you really care about is that Steel is good at defending against X of Y types, not that it specifically takes 50% damage from X-1 of Y types. The fact that Steel was resistant or immune to all but 5 types is notable. The fact that it was resistant to all but 6 types is far less interesting. The immunity to poison can be elaborated on, but it should still be included in the numbers since that's what people actually care about. Gorypon (talk) 06:41, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

It's not about being 'interesting', it's about being flat-out factual. Steel type has 10 resistances and 1 immunity, not 11 resistances and immunities. Kai * the Arc Toraph 12:42, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Dragon Dance, Breeding

'Yeah it does' is a little vague. I've created a section in the talk page for Dragon Dance for clarity, I'm just posting here to let you know because I don't imagine you'd get a notification. Concurrent (talk) 22:36, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Actually, I received a reply from somebody else faster than I anticipated. All's cleared up now, no worries. ~Concurrent (talk) 00:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)


After removing an unofficial Korean translation of Channeler Trainer class I noticed in the page's history that I have already did the same thing once, yet you re-added the name soon after I removed it. Why did you do this? My justification of the edit was clearly stated in the edit summary. --Maxim (talk) 11:59, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Because I never checked the history. At the time I was looking into all the trainer classes checking which were missing what languages. It was a pure mistake because I forgot the RGBY games weren't translated into Korean. Kai * the Arc Toraph 12:18, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Okay, then. Just wanted to make things clear in order to avoid further misunderstandings. --Maxim (talk) 14:27, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


I added a move tag to Grey's page if you want to take care of the moving part. I noticed that the episodes aired in the UK (which I don't own) have contained the wrong spelling. Should we wait until the episode airs in the US to avoid doing a whole bunch of edits in the long run fixing the names? PattyMan 13:28, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't think they "contain the wrong spelling" as much as it is people who don't use Closed Captioning are playing it by ear (which they should NOT be doing), unless the captions are different between the US and UK, but I've seen little proof of the latter and plenty of proof of the former. The only reason I didn't move ani!Grey or GB!Grey originally is because of the crossed medium; I ain't comfortable touching non-US translated manga 99% of the time. I'd rather have someone else's opinion or authority on the matter, which admittedly I...haven't actually sought...yet...ever. Idk. I'm dropping the ball on this one because I'm overthinking it. I really just don't want to move Gray to Grey (anime) until I know where Grey is going to wind up. It's less hassle in the long run. Kai * the Arc Toraph 14:10, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
To me, Grey is more of a color than name so the page is likely going to move, but still, I'll leave it for the staff to decide. PattyMan 19:06, 26 July 2014 (UTC)


Since I'm not exactly sure why you reverted my edit here, can you please clarify a bit more why you reverted my edit? The Vivillon glitch is just as much of a glitch as most of the other purely graphical glitches. - unsigned comment from Buffbills7701 (talkcontribs)

I thought I was perfectly clear: there is no outright proof it's a glitch and nothing something that is programmed to happen, for one reason or another. If it was any other pokémon whose form was not determined by location, I would agree it's a glitch. But, because it's Vivillon, there's an ocean of wiggle room as to why it's blank. If you could provide extensive proof on why it might be a glitch, please post as much to the talk page and it'll be reconsidered for addition.
Also, please do not resign your comments when an {{unsigned}} template is put in place. Kai * the Arc Toraph 18:01, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
I understand what you're trying to say, but at the same time, you haven't cleared anything up. Are you trying to tell me that Nintendo/Game Freak purposely didn't add a Vivillon sprite for the Friend Safari? If the answer to that is no, then it constitutes as a glitch. Buffbills7701 (talk) 20:02, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Since I have yet to receive a response, I am going to revert your edit. - unsigned comment from Buffbills7701 (talkcontribs)
Huh, I thought I had. My mistake, sorry. First off, forcing someone to say 'no' to a question like that (which assumes knowledge to the inner game code) is not the same as being right, because in turn, answer me this: are you telling me that Nintendo/Game Freak did add a Vivillon sprite for the Friend Safari, but it's not working? And if you say yes, where's your proof? Its absence in itself is not proof, so you need something more. This is also an argument for the glitch talk page, not mine, since the Vivillon thing has been removed before for its questionable validity as a glitch; I'm just sticking with the precedence of that decision. Secondly, lack of a response does not equal permission. Kai * the Arc Toraph 13:06, 23 August 2014 (UTC)


Why did you undo my edit to Chespin? Fall Guy (talk) 21:18, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Shipping names

I was recommended to you from Super goku, since you're the project leader for Shipping. I've got ships in mind, as it says so on my discussion page. Two other ships I have (and I've seen the terms on fanfiction) is ReleaseShipping (Ash and Solidad) and Curtainshipping (Reggie and Maylene). Let me know! WATERWARRIOR67 (talk) 21:18, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Hoenn Pokedex problem

A user created the List of Pokémon by ORAS Pokédex number for the new Hoenn Pokedex listing. The old page needs to be moved to something like List of Pokémon by RSE Pokédex number so the new Pokedex page can take its place. -Tyler53841 (talk) 15:25, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

The new Hoenn Pokedex list has not been added to the Template:Pokelist yet. Since only an administrator can edit it I will need you to take care of it. -Tyler53841 (talk) 18:56, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Edit war

You were the only admin active recently when i sent this message. An edit war is going on with the two pages Pokémon in South Asia and List of Hindi Pokémon themes. Please lock these two pages for some time. --→PikaTepig999 14:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

So I've lock the Hindi list for a couple days, but I don't see an "edit war" going on at the South Asia page, since it's only one person editing. Kai * the Arc Toraph 14:35, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for locking the Hindi themes page. But the South Asia article should also be locked as the user had removed important info and added unnecessary information. →PikaTepig999 14:37, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I don't see that being necessary, at this time. If it were policy to lock pages when there's technically only been one instance of a user adding and removing information and one user undoing it, half the wiki would be inaccessible to editors. If an issue arises, yes it can be locked, but right now, there's no warrant for it. Kai * the Arc Toraph 14:48, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Okay as you say. I have contacted the user on their talk page and will try to sort out matters. Thanks for your time. →PikaTepig999 15:11, 11 December 2014 (UTC)


Where does it say that? I know I've read you can't delete messages (except by archiving), but that welcome template takes up a huge amount of real-estate. That should be an exception. It's not like I need to review it every time I go to my talk page. Also, since the welcome template is itself a "message", it's archivable as well. CycloneGU (talk) 18:58, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

And I also noticed you don't have a welcome template. Where's yours? CycloneGU (talk) 19:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I joined before the welcome template came into use, so I never had one. On the matter at hand, please review the talk page policy, specifically the first sentence of the second paragraph of the linked section. You may wish to archive your current talk page, if you wish to be rid of your welcome template, and you won't need a new one on your new page. But if you do archive your current talk page, the template still needs to remain visible on that page. Kai * the Arc Toraph 19:18, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I've posted at the policy page. Since my talk page is very inactive (I usually don't cause issues and, when I visit someone else's page, I usually seek a reply on that page instead), it seems redundant to create an archive just to store a welcome template, and then basically post a link to my welcome template in the top of the page anyway. I might go ahead and archive the page at the end of the year (to start off 2015) since those are old (the last was in 2013!) anyway, and in that case the welcome message would be restored for archiving with everything else, but for now I just want it removed. CycloneGU (talk) 19:40, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, you still can't remove your welcome template, even if it'll be restored when you archive it. You're going to have to wait until you archive it to be free of it. Kai * the Arc Toraph 19:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Just looked at your user page, I see you're a senior admin. I did post about this over at the policy page as well (Tiddly linked it in an edit comment, I went there). I just do not understand why the welcome template cannot just be removed. That's the question: WHY. The policy says, and I'm quoting:
"Don't remove comments, including your initial welcome message. This is for historical purposes and so Bulbapedia staff don't give repeated warnings about the same thing."
Responding to both points. historical purposes. This is historical enough. I don't see why that doesn't suffice. Second point. Welcome templates are not something that would need to be repetitively posted. So I fail to understand WHY it must stay on the page. CycloneGU (talk) 20:27, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm not a policy maker, nor do I have the power to change a policy. Historically it needs to remain visible so someone doesn't think you never got one, when in fact you did, much like how you aren't allowed to remove comments. So no, it's not enough that it's in the History. And it's not going to change arguing with me. Kai * the Arc Toraph 20:53, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Zorua, event-exclusive?

Solar Dragon and I have come to an impasse on whether or not Zorua and Zoroark should be considered as having formerly been event-exclusive. Can we get some official ruling? glikglak 20:31, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm someone else, just happened to be here. If my opinion is welcomed, Zorua did not have a habitat until OR/AS, but Zoroark is available in Kalos on Route 20 and at the Pokémon Village. As far as Unova was concerned, I would say that Zorua/Zoroark were available via in-game events. You have to have a Gen. IV event to get either of them; otherwise they remain in their in-game NPC forms and are not capturable. I would call them event exclusive in B/W, but not in B2/W2 because Rood gives you the one at Driftveil when you go through (the one belonging to N that is all 30s in IVs). So my answer is no. CycloneGU (talk) 20:37, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Honestly, I can see it going either way. Because Zoroark could be bred, and you did get Zorua's dex entry from being shown a picture, it was not impossible to acquire one without getting the event, as you could gain it through the GTS after seeing the image. You'll probably have to ask someone else for something more definitive. Sorry I can't help much. Kai * the Arc Toraph 20:53, 14 December 2014 (UTC)


Just curious what you meant here by "You couldn't word this any differently to not sound bias, either"?

And no, I'm not going to argue, don't worry. I just thought having one of the highest-leveled Pokémon in the main series was trivial material. And I was not aware of Barry, either. CycloneGU (talk) 01:23, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

You wrote two sentences. Let me break them down.
"Beginning from this battle, Wally has one of the highest leveled Pokémon held by a Trainer in the main series, with his Gallade reaching Lv.81."
Unnotable for a section that's only supposed to be about the contents of the team, not pointing out something specific about his team. Even if this is where you ended, it would be reverted because it's trivia and certainly does not belong there. Now, if you had put it in the trivia section as
"Wally has one of the highest leveled Pokémon held by a Trainer in the main series, with his Gallade reaching Lv.81."
that would also be removed, under "seconds don't apply". Even without Barry, it's unnotable because Red. But the bias (or maybe I'm looking for a different word) is in the second line.
"This puts it on par with Red's Pikachu, though Red's Pikachu at Lv.88 still outranks it."
It sounds like comparison where no comparison should be made (hence the "bias"), and it reads like it's trying to get around "seconds aren't notable" by appearing encyclopedic when it's not. Put both together and it sounds like you're making Wally/his Gallade to be more than he/it is. It just doesn't belong there or anywhere on Wally's page, and there is no way to reword what you wrote to not be unnotable. Kai * the Arc Toraph 02:08, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Ah. Thanks for breaking it down. Bias was certainly not the intention. To be honest, I'm surprised there isn't something like a list of the ten strongest Pokémon held by Trainers in the main series, which would make all on that list notable in their trivia sections with linkbacks; however, if there isn't, clearly it's because the only one notable is the highest, which - obviously - is Red's Lv.88 Pikachu.
And no, I wasn't trying to show Gallade as better than Pikachu. I was just doing strict number comparisons. If it would be taken as being biased, then maybe it is better omitted. Still is the case of the third highest Pokémon in the games; granted, all are from originally playable characters or rivals and thus SHOULD be strong, so maybe it's not notable after all. GF let us down with Lv.66 rival battles in the Gen. V post-game. LOL CycloneGU (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

TM/HM Moves Contest Data

Working on a project for this, after which anywhere from 5-15 minutes of work per Pokémon will allow for quick editing of every TM list. I have so far verified most of the moves either using data supplied to Pokémon pages here (an example being Treecko) or independently verified in the game personally. Down to 23 moves remaining, and I had a long bit typed out, but I just answered that question, so I'm now omitting it. I do have other questions, however!

To clarify what I'm up to, I'm creating in my userspace later this evening a blanket list of all 101 TMs (including the old TM94 Rock Smash) and 7 HMs with all contest data; BTW, I should note I plan to have the data reviewed in my userspace before I start blanket editing with it as I would hate to draw red flags editing all the TM lists one at a time (you're welcome to help, and I have other editors in mind as well). The idea is that trimming the list based on the existing data for each Pokémon will quickly create the correct TM list, and then it just needs a few changes for Rock Smash and Dive, and also to add Secret Power to every list (except those who can't learn TMs).

This will turn into a project I request editor assistance with once it's ready to go; I can provide full directions to anyone helping and follow up on the edits to ensure they are done right, and keep a checklist locally (updated periodically) of Pokémon who are completed. Am I correct that such a project request would go in the forum section, or would I get a good response on-wiki somewhere (as in the Editor's Hub)? Should I even do both to maximize response? I do plan to create a few local copies of some Pokémon TM lists before asking for help, as well, and thus get a better idea of the timeframe for this project, and I know I'm away most of Christmas Eve so I will probably only follow up that evening, maybe a few edits, and then really start editing, at the earliest, on Christmas evening itself (if I don't go Boxing Day shopping on Friday - this is a Canadian thing). CycloneGU (talk) 03:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

UPDATE: Posted the page. That page should not need any other editing as is, and can serve as a reference portal for copying TM move data into tables. Feel free to offer commentary if you'd like (preferably here or my talk page); I'll create a proper discussion page later if needed, but I don't think it will be necessary. Going to ask a few other editors for opinions in the morning as well, and I can start with some tables for early catch Pokémon (such as Route 101) to try it out and figure out timeframes as I have time during the day. Hopefully, by evening, I can spend time editing a bunch of additional Hoenn specimen tables. CycloneGU (talk) 08:23, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

My Game Update

I must be the luckiest son-of-a-gun around.

Got those three Pokémon from earlier. Realized I forgot Shoal Cave. Got it. Realized I never evolved a MEditite to clear Medicham from Mt. Pyre. Said screw it. Went to Route 128 and dove, got through with injuries. Healed. Planned (badly) for a team but remembered to take Swampert, who I taught the new Earthquake TM I had just picked up (he ended up using Mud Bomb more, an Egg Move, with two attacks going to the red). I had to revive it once. It fainted and I had a Sharpedo and Surfing Pikachu left.

The tenth Ultra Ball clicked by some small miracle. So I'm off to the Gym after a charge (might be tomorrow), then I'll be spending a lot of time hunting down all of the TMs once I can climb waterfalls (I know Meteor Falls is hiding something). So the edited list review will be happening earlier than planned, and I'll spend a bunch of time grabbing all the TMs (are there any I can't get until the Hall of Fame?) before moving on to editing additional lists myself. I feel breeding babies of everything will let me quickly scan them all in Pokédex order, which is how I'm going through Hoenn. Thank goodness I can clone items that get me a bunch of money to buy those expensive TMs at Lilycove! =D CycloneGU (talk) 06:33, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Breeding lists

Why did you revert my edits? It doesn't seem factually accurate to exclude those Pokémon from the list when they can get those moves completely legitimately and can pass them down. For example, excluding Persian from the list for Pay Day implies that you have to have to keep Meowth from evolving to pass the move down to Purrloin, even though that's obviously not the case. So why shouldn't the evolutions be included? --Old School Pokémaster (talk) 19:29, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

It is, in fact, accurate to only list pokémon who can know the move in its most immediate form. In the case of Pay Day, including Persian implies that Persian can have access to that move no matter what the case, which is incorrect. A Persian might know the move if the Meowth it evolved from has retained it, BUT a Persian who evolved from a Meowth who didn't know Pay Day is not a viable father to pass the move down because it cannot relearn it, ergo making it false advertising that Persian in general can pass it down, because not all Persian have access to it.
In an effort to keep the lists as simple as possible, we only include parents that are the quickest way to obtain the move under three categories: level-up, TM/MTs, and chain breeding, and they are not intermixed. When chain breeding is necessary, only include the earliest breedable form of an evolutionary line that's quickest in line to pass it down (if a pokémon is compatible to breed with a pokémon that take two fathers and a pokémon that takes three fathers, only include the one that takes two fathers). When breeding from TM or Move Tutor, only include those that can learn the move themselves (so if an evolution can't learn it, we don't list the evolution, which is why I removed Bellossom from Gen II, but you're correct to add it to Gen III and IV, as far as I can tell). That's how we do it here. Kai * the Arc Toraph 19:57, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Kyogre Pronunciation

Please cite your source on "Kaiorga" being the official romanization. I've seen sources that show it's trademarked, but not that it's "official." In fact, the "official" romanization seems to simply be "Kyogre." The actual pronunciation of カイオーガ is "Kaiōga." Granted, a long "o" noise in Japanese is often used to represent an "or" noise, but that's never the romanization. The romanization is usually "ou" or "ō." As well, the trademarked pronunciations are often not used, even in Japan. Why would we use the trademark over the hepburn in this case, especially when it makes so little sense linguistically? --Valkyrja Magier (talk) 04:05, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Me, I don't have one; I just know you tried to put Kaiōga in the tmname field, which is short for "trade mark name", which Kaiōga is not. But unless you can provide a source that shows Japan romanizes カイオーガ as Kyogre, you're going to have a hard time arguing that's the intended romanized spelling. We put the trademark on the frontline to best represent what the Japanese spellings were going for to the best of their linguistic ability. Consider why would Zorua be trademarked and outright romanized as Zorua in Japan and not Zoroa, when that's what the katakana spells? We don't argue with trademarks.
But you need to argue with someone else about making any sort of change like that. I'm simply holding up precedent. I suggest the forums, specifically the bulbawiki section. Kai * the Arc Toraph 04:30, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Why does the page not list the transliteration as well, then? I can see (and agree with) your points (and was admittedly unaware of the trade mark name field), but not listing the proper pronunciation seems intentionally misleading. The point of putting rōmaji next to kana is generally to allow the reader to understand how the characters are pronounced, not simply to list an "official" romanization. I don't propose we oust the trademark, but simply list the pronunciation along with it (e.g. "(Japanese: カイオーガ Kaiōga, trade marked Kaiorga)"). --Valkyrja Magier (talk) 04:52, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
In point of fact, we actually don't do "romanizations" as in "how the Japanese is pronounced" very often (mostly in songs). In the "(Japanese: <jp> <italics>) format, the italics are actually supposed to be the translation. See pretty much any page besides Pokemon or characters (e.g., Granite Cave or TM). Tiddlywinks (talk) 05:11, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
The romanization is there. It's in the infobox. If you hover your cursor over the Kaiorga text, a box should appear with Kaiōga.--ForceFire 05:16, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
(What they said, too, but I'm not rewriting this again, so I apologize.) We do list it? The transliteration is in the tooltip of the katakana on the template, in the event the trademark and transliteration are different from one another (see Bulbasaur vs Clefable). Why are they not out in the open? Because the trademark is the more important information being offered; how it's actually spelled is trivia in comparison. The fact that there are romanizations that are trademarked and slapped on merchandise that are not transliterations should tell you that this is what the developers were aiming for, and it wasn't enough for katakana to display alone. We try to honor that as best we can.
Why's it not included in the first line? We try to keep that format as tidy as possibly; throwing in transliterations means pages like this are only bound to get messier. A Pokémon's trademark is as close to a translation as one gets, so that's the format. Kai * the Arc Toraph 05:32, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


Is it possible to add Froakie and Sylveon as a ship?-- --Handmaiden 101 (tAlk) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

A few things, but we'll start with: As a full article? No. A one-off character and the relationship having no bearing on the episode does not make it particularly notable that it deserves its own article at this time. I'm not entirely sure it's worth being added to here, either.
Two: the pairing is called MoonPulseshipping; WaterNymphshipping is the name of Misty/Valerie, so the name cannot stand as is, if any bit of it where to reach the shippingspace. A note for you.
Three: When editing your comment, don't resign it to change the timestamp. Preferably, you shouldn't be editing your comment so long after you posted it, either, so pray take care not to, next time. Kai * the Arc Toraph 19:09, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
(No editing comments, got it) Ah, I see. Too bad it can't have an article, I just like to include small things like that. I'll change the name. By the way, is there any tips to make a suitable shipping page? I'm new to shipping.-- --Handmaiden 101 (tAlk) 22:03, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


why did you undo my trivia for ice-type? --Valehd (tAlk) 22:53, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Can't help but wonder.

A bit old and random, but would this type of editing be considered vandalism, or is it okay? Thanks for your time, sorry for the dumb question. :P ----NateVirus(Talk|Contributions) 21:03, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Edit request for Mimikyu

I'm pretty sure the name comes from the phrase "mimic you", not just "mimic". Technickal (talk) 22:06, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Per the talk page for this Pokémon, the name origin is heavily disputed. Let's leave it as it is for now, until someone who actually speaks Japanese can chime in. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:33, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Move Pages

Can you move-protect Anchor Shot and any other move pages I might be creating in the next few days? I don't have that ability at my level. Cheers. =) CycloneGU (talk) 16:15, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

I'll be move-protecting what needs protecting, don't worry. I gotchu (it's all I do these days lol). Kai * the Arc Toraph
Haha, no worries. I just saw you had protected a few pages and wante to make sure you got it since I created it yesterday, and it was off the history. =D There are some 24 new signature moves and I have no idea how many of the pages already exist, but I will be creating others as needed. CycloneGU (talk) 18:12, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Capitalization of Internet

While I'm not invested enough in the topic to get into an extended argument, I thought it might be worth pointing out that there is indeed a debate on the capitalization of "Internet", and the usage seems to be gradually changing toward lowercase. In particular, I'd like to highlight that in 2016, the Associated Press and The New York Times both shifted to lowercase, which I personally feel is a significant milestone. Since this is a topic for which usage is likely to continue to change in the near future, would it be prudent to avoid confusion and have the staff make an executive decision one way or the other and add it to Bulbapedia's style guide? Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 19:04, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Shrug. If you want to run that query, you need to ask another staff member, though seriously, don't make it sound like it's a big thing. But imo I think until a consensus is reached by grammarians, it should remain capitalized. Kai * the Arc Toraph 19:38, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Shipping, Speculation policy and maintenance

Do Shipping articles belong in this wiki still? And if so, how do we make them visible/easy enough to find and clean up? They're inherently speculative, and often NSFW. And isn't the argument that that it's "an important part of the fandom" as subjective as saying the same thing about porn and fanart? I would like a clarification on why it stays outside of personal opinion and your job, especially since many of the articles are unkempt, poorly edited and written, out of date, not edited often, hidden to the point of being hard to find unless you the ship's most common name, have dated templates, and defy existing shipping article policy, resulting in less revenue from ads on them for Archaic. I am open to all suggestions on how to increase their visibility to encourage cleanup and regular, consistent editing...or the ending of individual shipping articles, and info being condensed into a single, succinct article on the fandom practice and its relation to Pokémon. And no, I'm not against shipping, I'm just trying to help start the cleanup of that part of this wiki.- unsigned comment from BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talkcontribs)

I too agree, a lot of the "hints" aren't hints and to make matters worse a lot of the characters are not in the show anymore so it's hardly likely that they'll be in a relationship. It's virtually all original research and completely subjective so in my opinion it shouldn't be on this encyclopedia.Great Bear (talk) 18:06, 18 May 2018 (UTC)