User talk:Oneofthosedf

Welcome to Bulbapedia, Oneofthosedf!

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Thank you, and have a good time editing here!   ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 16:20, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Linking anime Pokémon

Just so you know, when anime Pokémon owned by main cast are linked, they are linked by the form they were in at the time. So when the context of a text is referring to Ash's Goomy, [[Ash's Goomy]] is correct as opposed to [[Ash's Goodra|Ash's Goomy]]. When the context of the text is referring to Ash's Goodra, just use [[Ash's Goodra]]. The linking style you used for Ash's Goomy is never applied (not anymore at least), so don't use it. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 16:20, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Voice actor citations

Yes, it's pretty obvious the English voice actors you've put for various characters' Pokémon are correct, but just to be sure, please contact the voice actor on social media to verify. I know because I've done that before and I was asked the same thing. I've put ^{[citation needed]} tags on these Pokémon. (The exception is for Pokémon voiced by Bill Rogers. On Facebook, he says IMDb is a reliable source for knowing the Pokémon he voiced.) Technickal (talk) 17:20, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Nah, I'm done with this place.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 18:10, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Preview button

Please edit the whole page at once if you're going to add information to several sections, so the Recent Changes don't get clogged. Thank you. glik^glak 13:49, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

OK. Oneofthosedf (talk) 13:55, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Hala's Crabrawler

Where did you get the information that Hala owns a Crabrawler from? --Maxim (talk) 19:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Nevermind, I found the screenshot. Sorry for bugging you. --Maxim (talk) 19:43, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Editing Learnsets

Be careful if you are going to add Learnset data, as you did at Iron Defense. You are at times adding inaccurate information or leaving messy spacings. I'm checking every page individually regardless and someone else doing some pages ahead of me does save time, but please try to get accurate information if you continue to help out. Thanks! CycloneGU (talk) 00:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

System got 503'd after I published it so I forgot to double check when it went up again. I'm sorry about that but a few mistakes are inevitable (so far I corrected more than I made but accuracy is the most important). Oneofthosedf (talk) 19:11, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

No worries! We appreciate that you want to help, and it does save time in the long run, I'm just trying to promote accuracy. I make mistakes, too (look how many move pages I have double-edited, or worse), and it's just trying to help you become a better editor. =) CycloneGU (talk) 00:58, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Forms

I really haven't kept track of whether you've been doing this for anyone besides Giratina, but I don't think we need duplicated rows for different forms. If they learn the move the same, then we should only have one row. That's how the tables on its species page are as well.

So can you undo the Giratina moves you've duplicated? And if you've done it for anything else, can you undo that too? Thanks. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:42, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, technically, this is how it is punctual. Forms have been all over the place. I'm just trying to make it uniformal and this way seems the most logical. Origin forme Giratina, Unbound Hoopa, B/W Kyurem didn't exist in the first games yet they were sometimes treated that way. I noticed that Pokemon whose forms have different learnsets are supposed to have different entries and a lot of times it wasn't clear. The form names have been named inaccurately as well, not to mention some mistakes (which is natural and not a problem). I think it's better to have all forms listed since it's not that confusing (going through these pages it seemed to be me a problem).

Look, I'll stop doing it for now but you can't say that these are gratuitous changes. Shaymin, for example, had its two forms separately listed in the TM section, even though the forms had no difference in TM compatibility. So, basically what I'm doing with Giratina is what Shaymin's been like for years.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 00:56, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Some Pokemon have a large number of forms with no practical difference. If you think it's best to list all forms, that means we'll have to duplicate a great many rows for those Pokemon, which will only clutter things up. That's not smart. If forms do not have differences, only the base or a representative form should be included (without a form name, therefore implying that the row represents any form of the species). Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

I don't think all forms should be listed. Never said that. The ones I listed didn't exist in the first games of the generation they were introduced in and the way they were listed made it look like they were. This also should be a non-issue since what I was doing with Giratina is the same exact thing what was done with Shaymin and for years it hasn't been a problem. All these forms have different movesets as their base forms and where else would that be listed if not in the learnsets. I noticed that no form name given means all form of the species but that had mistakes and inconsistencies.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 01:12, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

You literally said, "I think it's better to have all forms listed since it's not that confusing (going through these pages it seemed to be me a problem).".

As far as Shaymin, I said "forms [that] do not have differences". Shaymin's Sky Forme has very explicit differences, in at least in its level up moves, and in its typing as well. If you want to argue about what's done with Shaymin, we can do that. But Giratina is not the same thing. Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:22, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

You know exactly which forms I meant (hint: obviously not the Vivillon or Basculin forms who have no difference in their movesets). Giratina's forms have different tutor moves, just like Shaymin's. Shaymin's TM moves are the same for both forms and they are still listed separately. Most of the Shaymin forms' level up moves are the same and they are still listed in the level up section as separate. I don't want to argue but what about responding to these points instead of grasping at straws with me mentioning "all forms" twice now.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 01:31, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't presume what I know, please. I've been entirely sincere. You were not at all clear enough for me to hardly even guess that you didn't mean *all* forms, for everything (or everything that you thought was within reason, which wouldn't be any sort of objective standard anyway).

The primary problem with comparing Shaymin and Giratina at all is that Shaymin's forms have different typings. As far as I'm concerned, that can (and probably should) be valid reason to list both its forms anywhere.

I have to admit, I saw that Giratina had Move Tutor differences for Gen VI, but that wasn't rightly registering in my brain. I'll acknowledge those differences now, but, I still don't think Giratina's forms should be duplicated other places when there's no differences.

If you see something else that's a closer analogy to Giratina and is handled differently than that, I'll be happy to discuss what should be done overall, but for now, I don't think Giratina should be duplicated unnecessarily. Tiddlywinks (talk) 02:06, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

May I jump in here? I simply want to point out what I've been doing editing the move pages; generally, if the forms have a different move pool for any particular segment, then include all forms for every move in that segment. For instance, Shaymin and Wormadam have different move pools for their level-up sets (Wormadam is especially interesting because Burmy's final battle environment dictates its final form and move pool). Kyurem also qualifies (though I should note B2/W2 only for all moves on the additional forms). Sticking with the Kyurem example, there are no differences in moves learned via TMs or HMs, so I have determined it's not necessary to list Kyurem in its alternate forms in those tables. Meanwhile, Thundurus is different because its movepool does not changed for leveling up, but for some reason, Therian Forme Thundurus is unable to learn Smart Strike via TM. It could be an error, but we have to mote it, and thus I'd include both its forms on the TM table (which I haven't so far because I forgot that example). Perhaps putting a note saying "All Forms" or something might be better in all examples, and this is something I can revisit later when going over individual Pokémon move pools.

One example that ALWAYS needs to be noted, regardless of differences, is Alola Forms. There are enough unique differences in movepools in all categories - even breeding, in some cases - that it's better to just include it separately in every case. CycloneGU (talk) 03:36, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

I can get behind always separating a Pokemon in a given method if it has at least one difference there. (And Alola Forms all have different types, so like I said above, that's probably good justification for separating them.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 03:44, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Shaymin doesn't learn any Flying type moves via Tms so it's not like it needed to be separated because of the different typings.

The one form last is Deoxys. Those should always be separated no matter what as they have different movepools just like Wormadam and Hoopa. No different typings but that shouldn't matter.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 12:35, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

The differences between Kyurem's TM moves is that Black and White Kyurem couldn't learn TMs in BW (didn't exist). They also couldn't learn Draco Meteor in BW (didn't exist), and if it's noted on one tutor move page, it should be noted on all.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 12:35, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, and that is something I'll have to address when I've finished emptying my spreadsheet (speaking of, I have lots of time later this week to try to finish that) as I've been ignoring putting the B2/W2 tag in thus far. What I may do is address Kyurem's full moveset individually now and remove any applicable moves still on my list from that list, completing those now. That way I know it's done and I don't have to address it again. I may eventually repeat this for other forms with move differences so the rest of my sweeps are just general passes. CycloneGU (talk) 15:22, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Why did you move my response to Tiddlywinks? I want them to see my answer to their point (unless it's done differently here). Anyways, all the forms that are left out from the learnsets are

• Origin Giratina's level up moves (identical but didn't exist in DP)
• Origin Giratina's TM moves (identical but didn't exist in DP)
• Deoxys' TM moves (identical but the forms were introduced in different Gen 3 games, meaning they should have sups)
• +noting that only Incarnate Thundurus can learn Smart Strike

Oneofthosedf (talk) 16:30, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

I did not move those answers, Tiddlywinks himself did. Even so, it's typically preferred here to have responses all in order. I have done replies nested into the conversation as you have before and knew what you were doing, but someone else moved the response to be in order of when it was made.

Regarding the missing forms, Giratina doesn't need top be listed as there are no differences. Deoxys I may have to check more, as I thought the forms all came at once. Thundurus I will check for Smart Strike eventually, but I'm undecided on whether to split all moves up for it; after all, Tornadus and Landorus would then need that treatment, so I might just note it for the one move. CycloneGU (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Evolution moves

Do you have a full list of all the evolution moves? In the learnset dumps I've seen from SM, level 1 moves and evolution moves are conflated, so the only way to tell which ones are evolution moves is when the move is both a level 1 move and an evolution move (in which case both need to be listed) or by testing in-game. --SnorlaxMonster 03:28, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

My source is another website. I don't know if I can mention it by name but that site has every move double checked and only has one mistake regarding Lombre and Nuzleaf. I don't know how Bulbapedia wants to handle Evolutions Moves but I'm not sure if they are Level 1 moves as well.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 14:39, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

You should mention it by name, especially if you know that there are mistakes. We do not use information from other websites precisely because they can make errors like the Lombre and Nuzleaf ones you mention, and instead only use information directly from the games. If you're not sure whether moves are just evolution moves or both level 1 moves and evolutions moves, you can check the Bulbagarden Handbook which specifically labels evolution moves (in cases that the move is both a level 1 move and an evolution move). --SnorlaxMonster 14:48, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I know what they are, I am just not sure if they are learned at Level 1. Pokemon may learn Evolution Moves via move relearner but that doesn't necessarily mean they are Level 1 as well. If all we know, Evolution Moves might be learned by the evolved form at any time, essentially making them Level 1 moves. The ones I added are right, though. There might be some missing, for example Feraligatr and Agility but the ones I added to the learnsets are good.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 15:26, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

In some lists, the move appears twice as "1". Chances are those are both starting moves and evolution moves. In a couple, I've seen a move three times; not sure what that is. CycloneGU (talk) 15:47, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Please answer what the site you used was. Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:49, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Do you have an example of an evolution move that is not otherwise a level-up move which can be taught at the Move Relearner? Since you've failed to make a distinction between moves that can be learned at both level 1 and via evolution, and moves that can only be learned by evolution, I'm not sure how you can justify stating that you can relearn the moves because they are evolution moves. --SnorlaxMonster 15:59, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I've done my share with the learnsets, I'll let you guys figure out the rest. SnorlaxMonster, you misunderstood me. I was just speculating on whether the Evolution Move should be listed as a Level 1 move as well, since there is the possibility that Evolution Moves can be taught at the move relearner at any time.

Tiddlywinks, I'd rather not do that but you can make a really wild guess.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 16:54, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Understand that we do need to know which site you used, because if it happens to be a site such as Serebii, we will need to revert all of your edits about evolution moves and check them again. If you continue to avoid naming it, we'll be forced to assume it is such a site and revert all the changes anyway. As you should know, adding information from such a site is strictly against the rules of Bulbapedia. --SnorlaxMonster 17:07, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not naming the source. You can revert it if you want but you'd only see yourself adding them back again. You can assume anything but you can't prove it, thus I can't be blamed. I say that you should just revert them all and do it on your own since you won't trust anything that didn't come from the main "testers". I keep randomly checking your handbook and so far every move I clicked had the right Pokemon learning them upon evolving. I'd suggest not removing those.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 17:18, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to know, is your source for all the learnset data you updated (like here) the same site?

And... One last time: tell us the site. You can either tell us or receive a block. Tiddlywinks (talk) 04:38, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

I have used multiple sources and the games themselves for the learnsets. Judging by the response SnorlaxMonster gave me, it really doesn't matter what my source is. I don't know what he means by a "site such as Serebii", I assume it means a Pokemon website. I can tell you that it is in fact a Pokemon website. I could also tell you which evolutions moves are already in your handbook and which ones are not, it would take me probably 30 minutes (EDIT: took me even less, I added these that your handbook misses: Eelektross' Crunch, Forretress' Mirror Shot and Nuzleaf's Razor Leaf). You wouldn't believe me, though. So either way, you are going to end up reverting my edits (just to add them back) because it wasn't you who added and found them. I was also expecting at least one thank you for my help and now here I am facing a block.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 13:50, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Understand that we cannot allow plagiarism of other sites' work. Refusing to credit the source (as you are doing for absolutely no reason) is plagiarism. If you actually disclose which site it is, it's possible to ask the people who run the site for permission. (In the case of Serebii, the site's webmaster has explicitly stated in the past that we cannot use his information.) If it's a site that is happy for other people to use the information, then all we need to do is confirm that.

The reason you're facing a block is not for adding movesets, it's because you're refusing to cooperate with the simplest of requests. If it turns out the information is from a site that does not allow its information to be re-used, it is necessary to check every single move edit you've made, meaning more work for everyone than if you had done nothing at all. --SnorlaxMonster 14:23, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

It's a site that I won't name because I don't want underaged people to visit it (no, not 4chan). The information was crowd-founded then double-checked 98% of the time. I also checked them with every released Pokemon myself meaning that for around 40% of them I can name myself as the source. The thing is that these sites, if correct will have the same information no matter what. Whether that site got some info from Serebii or not I cannot tell. Block me if you want for not giving a source and possibly making 3 mistakes. The information you put there won't be any different (unless you add them as Level 1 moves as well, which currently seems undecided here).

Oneofthosedf (talk) 14:36, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Look, if you don't want to name the site publicly, then fine, but actually say that in the first place. You can just privately contact me and tell me which site, then let Bulbapedia's staff determine whether or not it's appropriate to share the site's name on here. If you're one of the main contributors, it should be easy enough to get the approval of the owners to re-use the information. --SnorlaxMonster 14:46, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree with SnorlaxMonster here. If it's a site that underaged people should not visit, I concur we would be best not to name it as we have a lot of such visitors. But we still need to know what the site is. It's correct that most of the information is already duplicated everywhere, but for information that is unique especially, we need explicit permission to use it. CycloneGU (talk) 19:51, 13 December 2016 (UTC)