User talk:Force Fire/Archive 9

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Subpages of a userpage

Hello, I noticed you warning people about their userpages, so I thought you'd be the right person to ask this. The thing is, I would like to create a subpage listing my in-game teams using the standard team template, since I want there to be more things related to Pokémon and me on my page. I wanted to ask whether or not it is allowed at all and what I should keep in mind besides not editing excessively. Thank you! Kikugi (talk) 10:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Making subpages for that is fine, the rules for subpages is the same as a normal userpage. An edit to your subpage also counts to the "three userspace edits per day" rule.--ForceFire 10:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Another offensive username

Puta is a really rude word in Spanish(I think the account maker failed to use proper alts, but their intent is this worth your time for an unacceptable username?--BlisseyandtheAquaJets (talk) 17:16, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

"Not everything is a pun"

...I never said everything is, but SM is known for them and "ワル" is not a Japanese word, but "warui" (悪い) is! And since it's spelled as "ワル" and "Warubiaru" (ワルビアル) is in the episode it makes sense it's a pun. I have no idea what your problem is and I don't care, but I've already explained why it's a pun. "ワル" isn't used as "bad" in katakana, but words are used in different characters when they're a joke. Like the episode with Dhelmise with "Ikari" (anger) being used as "いかり" as "anchor" but the same spelling "Ikari" also can be used to mean "怒り" (anger). Playerking95 (talk) 19:31, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Please respond and change it back because it's not spelled the right way, meaning it is a pun. I don't care what your problem is, but not correctly addressing a pun in a title that clearly has one just makes Bulbapedia look stupid. I've been obvious why it's a pun. Why can episode titles like SM071, SM065, and SM040 be acknowledged but not this? Playerking95 (talk) 14:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Just because "waru" is written in katakana, doesn't mean it no longer means "悪" or has a different meaning. "ワル" is still "悪", it's not some nonsensical word. And yes, "悪" can be used by itself. As for the title, "waru" could also be referring to Nanu, considering his attire and the fact the title includes "oyaji" (since it's "...waru oyaji wa...").
As for the other episodes, they're fine. Ikari can mean either Anchor and Anger, like you said, so that's a pun. "Mairimasu" is pure nonsense and could only be a pun. "Pan-paka-pan" is a trumpet fanfare with just happens to include the word "pan", and the episode was about bread.--ForceFire 15:20, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
The idea that not translating a pun is bad needs to be addressed.
Translating puns is HARD.
It is not always worth wracking your brain over or compensating for otherwise. And it's not even necessarily worth forcing something. Not translating a pun does not make Bulbapedia look stupid... Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:37, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Surge/Terrain confusion

There's confusion going on in the anime whether the Tapu are activating their signature abilities or using the Terrain moves. This issue has been resolved with Tapu Koko, but people are still mixing up Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu's Abilities with their Terrain moves. When Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu activated their Abilities Psychic Surge and Grassy Surge respectively, users are assuming that they are using the attacks Psychic Terrain and Grassy Terrain instead. That is not the case. In Rising from the Ruins! and SM075, when Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu enter battle with Rockruff and Lycanroc respectively, their Surge Abilities go off at the start of their battles. This happened with Tapu Koko as well when it battled Pikachu in The Guardian's Challenge! and A Guardian Rematch!. The Terrain moves can go off during any point of the battle, however the Surge Abilities can only activate when the Pokémon enter the field. Another point to show that it's their abilities activating in those episodes and not their attacks is in Revealing the Stuff of Legend! where all four Tapu used the four Terrain moves to show Ash and the gang Nebby's backstory. Even the anime makes mistakes as shown in SM075 where Acerola and Rotom misidentify Tapu Bulu's Grassy Surge as Grassy Terrain. --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 21:32, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I've removed them and added a hidden notice. Abilities and moves need to be explicitly said, especially those that would potentially have the same exact animation.--ForceFire 03:11, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Ok, looks like Psychic Terrain was confirmed via dub captions (which is fine, until/unless the Japanese version says that it's something else later on). Grassy Terrain was said, which you've noted. Is it an error? We don't know. But for now, it is not an error unless they contradict themselves and call it Grassy Surge later on. At the end of the day, the is no confusion. Assuming moves is something you shouldn't be doing. If it is said or revealed in close caption, then that's final.--ForceFire 12:08, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Ok. I wanted to make sure if the move used was either the Terrain Move or the Surge Ability. Thank you for clearing it up. --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 20:48, 19 May 2018 (UTC)


If you would be so kind, could you please hear me out and consider doing a couple things I can't do (at least without permission, in some cases):

  • Template {{Trainerentry}} has several handy redirects for Trainer classes that have changed their names over the years, such as "Cooltrainer" to "Ace Trainer" and "Rocket" to "Team Rocket Grunt". However, there are several Trainer class name changes that have either been missed or happened after the template was last edited, like "Rocket Grunt"* to "Team Rocket Grunt", "Pokéfan" to "Poké Fan", "Swimmer ♂/♀" to "Swimmer", and "Clerk ♂/♀" to "Office Worker". There may be others than these, but anyway, my point is, could you please add the missing redirects to the template in the same way as the already existing redirects?
  • Back in January, I suggested that the Pokémon League (Alola)/Title Defense page should be split into separate SM and USUM Title Defense pages. I've already got the USUM section ready right here under my own userspace in case the idea gets approved. Do you think the page should be split?
  • Ummm... I recall having a third request, but it doesn't come to my mind right now. I'll come back if I can remember it.
--FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:59, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
I've added the examples you've provided. If there are any more, do let me know.
I've forwarded the article with the other staff members.--ForceFire 08:16, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for hearing me out. And indeed, I've discovered a few more redirect links that should be fixed: "Officer" and "Policeman" to "Police Officer", "Interviewer" to "Interviewers", "Socialite" to "Madame", and "School Kid" to "Schoolkid". Also, a couple of other things related to this subject:
In Generation II, the "Swimmer" class was classified as "Swimmer♂/♀", as in without a space, while in Generation VI, it's "Swimmer ♂/♀", as in with a space. The latter redirect is yet to be fixed.
In Generation II, the Trainer class that would later be known as "Schoolkid" was called "Schoolboy", hence why "Schoolboy" redirects to "Schoolkid" (or rather "School Kid", a redirect link). And then, in Generation VI, we were introduced to the separate "Schoolboy" Trainer class. As such, the Schoolboy links from Generation VI now lead to an incorrect article (similar to the "Medium" link from Saffron Gym's page, actually, due to the Channeler class's renaming in Stadium, but that's a much more minor subject). I know this may be an impossible or at least a difficult problem to solve properly, but I decided to bring it up nevertheless, just in case.
The request I forgot about yesterday is actually a pretty old one: back in 2013, I made a suggestion to change the {{Gym Leaders of Unova}} to better separate the BW and B2W2 Gym Leaders from each other, but my edit (which you can see here) was undone, because I hadn't talked about it beforehand. Since then, I've forgotten, remembered, and re-forgotten this multiple times, but now I've finally managed to make myself bring this long-forgotten topic up again. Could the template be edited in this or at least in a similar kind of way, or do you feel it's good enough as it is?
Also, I've also come up with a couple new things I'd want to propose since yesterday: could "Tide Song Hotel" and "Kantonian Gym" receive their own articles? I've already asked people's opinions about these ideas on Heahea City and Malie City's talk pages, and at least the Tide Song Hotel split seems to have gotten some support already. Could you take these splits into consideration as well? Thank you.
--FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Oh, and while I'm at it, I also found one Orre Trainer class redirect to fix: "Fun Old Lady" to "Matron". --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:35, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Ah, didn't see the subtle difference with the Swimmer trainer class. I've added the other TCs.
I think the Unova Gym Leader Template is fine the way it is. Repeating the same Gym Leaders is pretty unnecessary, while I do get why, the template is about who are the Gym Leaders, separating by game isn't necessary. Plus, the three newer Gym Leaders being at the bottom of the first eight already implies that they were added later on.
I've forwarded those suggestions to the other admins as well.--ForceFire 05:11, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
I actually just saw you making that edit. Thanks a lot.
I understand. It's fine. I won't raise that topic again.
Thanks once again. I'll be waiting for the results. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 05:36, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
Sorry to bother you again, but I've found a couple more links to fix, mainly from the Orre games:
Let's get the simpler ones out of the way first: "Researcher" and "Cipher R&D" to "Scientist".
Now, for something I'm not so sure of: the Orre-exclusive classes "Rogue" "Kaminko Aide", and "Robo Groudon" are Trainer classes used by only one person each, and they also only appear as redirect links on one page each. Hence why I'm not sure if these redirects should be removed or not. What do you think?
And finally, something a bit different, but still involving the same template. A big number of Fighting-type Trainers in FireRed and LeafGreen have their Pokémon holding Black Belts. However, the template links the "Black Belt" held item to "Type-enhancing item#Black Belt". This was understandable before, but now "Black Belt (item)" has its own article. Could you change the link to go to the item's own page now?
Thank you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 06:59, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
Done. As for the three single trainer trainer classes, I think they're fine, due to the way the template works (the second parameter is under a TC template, so their has to be a [name] (Trainer class) link.--ForceFire 03:29, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Thank you once again. However, when I looked at your edits, I also happened to notice that, similar to the Black Belt link you fixed, the held item link for "Metronome" leads to "In-battle effect item#Metronome". I can understand that you didn't notice that during your edit, so I'm not blaming you of anything, but could you be so kind and fix that one, too? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 05:25, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Whoopsie! Every time I think I'm done with this issue, I notice something new. The redirect link of "PokéFan" to "Poké Fan" has been fixed, but it's formatted as "Pokéfan" on every pre-Generation VI page (as well as on the "Poké Fan (Trainer class)" article), and that redirect link still remains to be fixed. Could you do this one more thing? I'm sorry if you feel bothered by this. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:40, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
(deep sigh) One. More. Once again I've noticed something. In Generation II, some Poké Fans had their Pokémon holding Berries, as in "Berry (item)", but link just goes to "Berry". Could that be fixed? PS. I also have other stuff to talk about with you, but I'll probably start a new section for that purpose later. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:04, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Force preview question

I've heard about the force preview group, where you have to preview your edits before publishing them. And I thought it might help me slow down and evaluate if my edits are actually helpful, since I have a tendency to act impulsively. Is it possible to ask to be put in that group? I was just curious. Incentive (a.k.a. Veralann) 02:49, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


I think it was a little harsh to block him for that. You could've just asked about it on his talk page. --Raltseye prata med mej 16:03, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

"Pokémon seen" lists for movie locations

I wasn't too sure who to ask about this, though I have noticed that some movie-based locations have got the "Pokémon seen" lists and others don't. What is the requirement for these types of pages?. E.g. The Lake of Life has an incomplete list whilst Forina and the Tree of Beginning do not have any list, instead the Pokémon are just listed in the description section.

Also who is the authority on uploading images to the archives? I have a few images in mind that are needed to complete other pages like the Pokémon mate page.

Thanks. PardescanSlowbro (talk) 09:55, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Locations where Pokémon actually live there have the Pokémon list. Though I'm not too sure if it's needed, as most are just wild Pokémon. Maybe if they play a large role in the area, such as the titans in Tree of Beginning, then they can be listed. Otherwise, it's unnecessary. As for the archives, you have to create an account at the archives and wait to be autoconfirmed there (the requirements are the same as it is on the wiki).--ForceFire 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the information. PardescanSlowbro (talk) 09:36, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Unaccpetable username

[[1]] - unsigned comment from RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talkcontribs)

No it's not.--ForceFire 02:43, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Bulbapedia lagging

Not really sure if this is the appropriate place to ask, but is the site undergoing updates or something? Loading for this site is lagging for me. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 20:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Never mind. The issue seems to have resolved itself. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 21:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Could I have my userspace privileges back?

It's been like 6 years and I mostly just wanna delete it lmao --Pokelova (talk) 12:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Done.--ForceFire 14:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


Edgreen293 (talk · contribs) is at it again ([2] [3] [4]). GrammarFreak01 (talk) 22:29, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I might also add Tygamer64 (talk · contribs) since both GrammarFreak01 and I were discussing him on his talk page. Since he has made rather pointless edits and we were told to report these cases. Ice Cream 15:25, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

RE: Episode links

The links I added are from a licensed Pokémon copyright holder, so there is no copyright issue here. They are all legal.--Magicknight94 (talk) 09:31, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Did you read my reply?--Magicknight94 (talk) 14:52, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
You still can't link to full episodes or episode clips, regardless of whether it comes from an official source or not.--ForceFire 04:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Why not? If copyright is not the issue here, what is the problem? Can you explain? --Magicknight94 (talk) 07:33, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello?--Magicknight94 (talk) 05:22, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Be patient. Force Fire is probably busy. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:31, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
The issue is copyright. We choose not to link to episodes available on streaming sites, regardless of it being from an official source or not, just to be on the safe side. Also, the link you provided was for the Vietnamese dub, which I don't think anyone visiting an English wiki would be interested in.--ForceFire 05:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Pokemon 4ever working title? Scrolling down that page a bit shows a 7-frame promo for a project simply called Pokémon 2001 and one of the frames shows a Celebi, no plans to currently add anything about it to the Pokémon 4ever page but I was wondering what your thoughts were on this. Frozen Fennec 14:05, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Do you have another source for that other than Serebii? Serebii is not a credible source, as it's a fansite.--ForceFire 13:10, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Nope, just randomly came across that and given how old the page was, got a little curious. Tried to reverse image search the frames but could not find anything at all. Frozen Fennec 13:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Not sure if I can post this video, but here's video proof. Playerking95 (talk) 13:56, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Oh wow, did not know there was still video footage, I just thought it was those seven screenshots. Wonder if this would be worth adding to the Pokémon 4ever section as trivia. Frozen Fennec 14:01, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


I'm having a really big problem with PardescanSlowbro (talk · contribs) right now. I once sent him this message in response to his editing style, and he took it pretty personally (even though I was also in the wrong here). Since then, the user has made edits to a variety of articles, and I've commonly had to edit them to rectify errors that he made. For example, he very recently edited the plot summary of EP045 and this was what I did to improve it (note that I also did some unrelated changes at the same time).

I once tried to inform him of some of the kinds of errors he kept making in his edits, like you suggested, but this was his response. He also said this beforehand. I tried to be rational and explain myself this time, but the conversation did not move forward anymore, so I gave up trying to reason with him and just resorted to editing at his heels whenever I saw an error. He eventually got agitated by this. I tried asking for specifics about his complaints of me, but he claimed I already knew what I was doing (I legitimately do not). After I responded a couple of times, he went on a tirade against me.

If any, if not all of his grievances towards me are legitimate, then I do apologize immensely. But I sincerely believe I've been trying to be helpful and he just rebuffs it. Either way, could you please step in? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:39, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

He also had this to say recently. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:44, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
Tiddlywinks (talk · contribs) has pitched in. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 19:25, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Harassment Procedure

Dear ForceFire,

I have felt personally vindicated and harassed by the user GrammarFreak01 on a continuous basis. I have pleaded to be left alone by the user and made them clearly aware of my feelings on their conduct towards myself. I was never under the assumption that any of my edits were to be untouched, though found the user in question deliberately followed and made, in some cases minor and pointless changes to over 40 pages (Episode 1 to 46 and some associated anime pages) directly after I did over recent days. The pages in question, at least the plot sections required some detail corrections but until my additions had not been looked at for several years. I had earlier requested significant action be taken against the user on Tiddlywinks page after an earlier spate of unexplained deletions to additions which were quickly reinstated by Tiddlywinks. Nothing came of this request on Tiddlywinks page, and the behaviour has persisted and worsened into vitriol that centres on GrammarFreak01's belief I referred to them as racist, though nothing of the sorts has occurred. I can no longer handle the barrage of blatancy and continuous harassment written on my discussion page by GrammarFreak01, and wish for those actions to end. At all times I have maintained my distance, and have thanked the user for their efforts when they have worked in collaboration with myself. Though their commentary and vicious attacks on my supposed sensitivities and linguistics must end. I have let things slide, despite my discontent, as to avoid further escalation. The user has been told to maintain their distance and respect previously written advices to improve their conduct, though such warnings remain unheeded and their pattern of behaviour towards me continues to intensify. I am completely naïve when it comes to Bulbapedia's bullying procedures, though require strong action be taken to ensure the harassment, belittlement and bullying that I have been exposed to by user GrammarFreak01 does not ever repeat.

I look forward to your reply, though will maintain my reserve and distance nonetheless, PardescanSlowbro (talk) 12:04, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Seeing as I have been the only one to receive any commentary it is best I be moved on. My claims have been outright ignored and also denied, despite the sheer amount of evidence to say otherwise. At the very least the user in question should have been told to remain at a distance, though has immediately gone on the attack again; though of course I am making everything up and overreacting as you pointed out. As such, please delete my account, this forum is no longer suitable to myself, my temperament or my skills. Thanks.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 13:44, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Move trivia

How do I know if trivia about moves is notable? The stuff I add sometimes gets undone even if it's unique to that move. sumwun (talk) 17:54, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Depends on what the trivia is.--ForceFire 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
I guess a recent example would be my attempt to add a trivium to thunder wave. It said that thunder wave is currently the only status move whose effectiveness depends on the type chart, so that ground Pokemon were immune because it was electric type and not because it was programmed separately. I thought it was unique and notable, but it was taken down. sumwun (talk) 17:57, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Erica124 yet again

Erica124 (talk · contribs) has once again shown her inability to use her force preview, despite my earlier warning. Maybe it's time to let her go? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Perma-blocking her is for the staff to decide, not you. You also need to calm down when approaching "problem" users, yes their continuous wrongdoings can be frustrating, by try to keep a level head when dealing with them. As for blocking, it's not excessive. Can't do much if it's a once in a while thing.--ForceFire 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Oh, I thought you were part of staff? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:56, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Also, just so you know, it's not a once-in-a-while thing. Erica124 made the same exact error on the same article before, and I did warn her about it once. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
I am. A perma block is something that needs to be discussed with other staff members first, not just immediately executed, unless the user we're dealing with is a vandal.
Yes, but her recent spate of unpreviewed edits aren't happening as frequently as it did back in March. She's not editing daily. She only didn't use the preview button on one article today. The last one before today was June 15th, four days ago. And the one before that was last month. Compare it to March where it was almost daily. --ForceFire 07:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Oh, okay. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:51, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


Anything to say on my page? RubyLeafGreenCrystal (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Quick query

This is present in the trivia section on the Slowbro page:

  • Slowbro's Pokédex entries state that if the Shellder is removed, it will revert to its Slowpoke form.
    • This is the only mentioning of a Pokémon possibly devolving anywhere in the Pokémon games, aside from a card in the game versions of the TCG.

The first part is fine, the second point is incorrect as Exeggutor can also revert. Should the second point be deleted entirely as it both untrue and not unique or altered to include a connection with Exeggutor

e.g Slowbro and Exeggutor are the only recorded cases of Pokémon capable of devolution PardescanSlowbro (talk) 12:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

The second point may be removed as it is not unique to one Pokémon.--ForceFire 13:19, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
No worries, thank you.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 13:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Poké Problem characters list

OK, so my recent edit of SM080 was taken down by you on the basis that, since the Pokémon I put on the appearance list appeared exclusively in the episode's Poké Problem, it doesn't deserve a mention (since Poké Problems are part of the episode apparently). I've also noticed that some edits on SM079 also got erased on the same reason. Yet previous episodes' character lists feature characters that only appeared in the episodes' Poké Problem segments (for example Brock & Misty's siblings in SM042's case and Harper and Sarah for SM071). As such, I have to wonder why its sometimes okay for characters and Pokémon that appeared exclusively in the Poké Problem of an episode to be mentioned on the character lists of said episode, but other times it's not OK? Pulsaro23 (talk) 17:03, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Then those need to removed from their episodes and any other episodes that list PokéProblem appearances needs to be fixed. PokéProblem is a segment similar to Who's That Pokémon, it is not part of the actual episode.--ForceFire 13:57, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
While I'll agree that the Poké Problem and Who's that Pokémon segments share a similarity (the fact that they are tied to a situation/Pokémon from the episode), they are also very different. By that I mean that, while the WtP segment doesn't have any impact on the overall story of the episode, the bonus scenes shown after the Poké Problem segments expand upon the story of the episode (personally, I'd say they're very similar to the after-credits scenes form the Marvel & DC movies). For example, the Poké Problem segments for SM022 and SM057 feature scenes that resolve the episodes' ending cliffhangers, while others, like the ones for SM042 and SM030, flesh out more of the characters' personality and traits, as well as showing their relationships with other characters. As such, I'd say that, while Poké Problem segments are really part of the main episode, they still have some degree of importance, since the scenes shown at the end of those segments expand upon the main theme/story/characters of the episode (and as such, they should, as you say, "count"). Plus, in the case of the XY series, characters that appeared exclusively in its Poké TV segments were mentioned on the appearance list for its episodes (e.g. XY096, XY099, XY106 etc.). So why should the Poké TV segments receive special treatment and the Poké Problem ones not? Pulsaro23 (talk) 14:37, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Usage of the word "native"

PardescanSlowbro (talk · contribs) is concerned about using the word "native" to describe the residents of Alola in the Raichu article, due to its connection to indigenous peoples who have been plagued with stereotypes and also its purported implicit nature as a development discourse, thus making it potentially offensive to some people. I did not see anything wrong with the word's usage, however, since it can alternatively be used as a synonym for "resident" or "citizen", as I pointed out to him. He's still concerned and has pointed out that official literature no longer uses the word, seemingly making it taboo, even though I have still heard it being used in the context I just described.

Do you think it is appropriate to use "native" in any shape or form here? I'm not aware of any other articles here that use the word. I do acknowledge the potential issue of indigenous peoples being offended, but I don't think anyone will be offended given the word's context in the Raichu article. What do you think? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

It's fine to use the word "native". No need to think that someone will get offended by the word.--ForceFire 09:44, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
You failed to acknowledge my concerns, and reverted my re-edit after GrammarFreak01 again deleted it. The latest addition aided the sentence in making it more concise, and as stated, the phrase 'the natives' is not used by the Pokémon Company in any of it literature, and probably for good measure. The term 'native' to mean local makes sense though should only be applied to describe an area or plant such as on the Vileplume page under the biology section. I would like another opinion as you have allowed a good edit to be revertedPardescanSlowbro (talk) 05:52, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
It's very clear you changed the sentence because of your dislike of the word "native", whether it was a good change or not. You made the change because there was a word you didn't like. That's why it got reverted. There's is nothing wrong with using the word. The Pokémon Company not using it doesn't mean we can't use the word. You're thinking too much into the negative connotation of the word.--ForceFire 06:00, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Negative connotations is your justification? I saw the term and looked at it as an opportunity to make a positive change in line with one of Bulbapedia's major aims, inclusivity. Allowing the phrase 'the natives' is an issue as it is loaded language and may be used on other pages in much the same way. But correcting the term to something more global and neutral has become the issue, leaving aside the issues associated with using this turn of phrase in the first place, even though the original editor of course had no intention of being racist or degrading to particular demographics. By actually allowing this term to pass through with your acceptance, you are also condoning the use of this term in much the same way across potentially other articles and it may enter people's own thoughts on people of different backgrounds. Inclusivity was my motivation because of the so-called negative and very true reality for many individuals on this planet, that terms like this are harmful. I cannot imagine the editor's guide has any detail on this specific turn of phrase, though it would diffidently be designed to uphold inclusivity of all peoples.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 06:23, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
You just admitted that the editor that added the word had no intention of being racist or degrading, if you already think that then it shouldn't be an issue. It's not offensive unless someone makes it offensive. The sentence is in no way written in an offensive manner, and no one will take it as an insult. You're looking to much into it.--ForceFire 06:57, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I'm afraid you are wrong when it comes to the development discourse, it is an issue incidental or not. I am going to contact someone higher up to alert them to my concerns about the phrase, not word, "the natives", as you have plainly ignored the fact that such terminology is typically avoided due to taboo and discrimination surrounding it. Thanks PardescanSlowbro (talk) 07:06, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
When used correctly, "native" can also be "global and neutral". The only way it can be considered "loaded language" is if the person writing it in question makes it loaded language. I understand the history behind the word, and I also understand that the current political climate makes usage of certain words even more dangerous, but if the word has alternate meanings that are more acceptable, then I don't see why we must avoid using it, no matter how incidental the racism. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Merriam-Webster, not the admins here. If someone else does have a problem with it, we'll talk it out, see where it goes. But in the meantime, we can't simply just avoid using a certain word out of concern of potentially offending someone, even if the word in question is used in an appropriate, non-offensive context. I can't think of anyone else here who would think this word, or similarly loaded language of any kind, should be omitted in its entirety even though it's being used in a non-offensive context. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Exactly. The word is not used in a derogatory manner, it is completely fine. It's all about context, and in this case, the context is not offensive. The only person that has a problem with it is you, Pardescan. And we won't change it just because one person thinks it may be offensive. I'll repeat this again, because you seem to be ignoring it, you are looking too much into the negative aspects of the word.--ForceFire 07:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
It looks like he's made good on his promise. I've already pitched my counterargument. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Template mainspace request

For the new Light trio page, there would need to be six Pokémon in the stats section, but there is no such template. I made a template for it and I wanted to know if I could mainspace it to add to the Light trio page. --Celadonkey 14:05, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Integration of Spaceworld Iterations of Existing Pokémon

I felt I would ask this here, since you're the one who linked the in-progress pages for the Pokémon Gold/Silver Spaceworld demo and you seem to know what the plans for them are, and the Gold and Silver Beta discussion page is rather cluttered and doesn't seem like a good place to catch the attention of anybody in particular.

There are a number of Pokémon added for the demo that did end up being released as official Pokémon, such as the Mareep, and Phanpy lines, Crobat, Espeon, Umbreon, Miltank, and others, who are present in the Spaceworld demo build, sometimes with different names and subtly-different designs. Additionally, there are Pokémon such as Haneko, Poponeko, and Wataneko, Gift, Blissey, Scissors, Leafeon, etc. that are very obviously earlier drafts of Pokémon that would appear in Generation II or later.

Are these Pokémon going to be integrated into the site differently compared to, say, Pokémon like Honoguma, Kurusu, Norowara, Wolfman, or Twinz, that were very clearly cut entirely and have yet to appear in any official, publicly-released Pokémon game?

As an aside, how are name labels going to be handled for Pokémon such as Kingdra, Girafarig, and Bellossom, whose final names are already present and in use in the demo? It seems to me that the sensible thing to do would be to label them with their final English names, since the names they have do have official English-language counterparts, and it would be clearer and easier to read for readers who might be unfamiliar with with the Japanese names of those Pokémon. Topaz Light (talk) 14:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Right now, the focus should be filling out the userpages with information before all that. The staff will figure out how the handle them in the mean time.--ForceFire 05:58, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

A Small Request

Hi. A while ago I had asked to be put in the forcepreview group for editing. If possible, I think I'm ready to edit without needing to look at all my edits beforehand. If you could please take me out of forcepreview, and abuse as well, I would really appreciate it. Thank you. Incentive (a.k.a. Veralann) 19:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I'll take you out of force preview, but not out of abuse. You have not made nearly enough mainspace edits to warrant be placed out of abuse. Being away for a month means absolutely nothing. If you want out of abuse, prove that you will contribute more to the mainspace by making a whole lot of edits there.--ForceFire 05:04, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Random question

On the Pokemon articles, why do the Pokedex entry, location, and sprite tables always put Emerald before FireRed and LeafGreen even though Emerald was released after? sumwun (talk) 18:42, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Probably to group the hoenn games together.--ForceFire 05:18, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for answering, I guess. sumwun (talk) 06:03, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Bulbapedia lagging again

It seems this site is becoming very laggy for me. Is there an issue with the site? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:28, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Site's running smoothly for me. Probably something on your end.--ForceFire 06:37, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
Well, it seems the site's running smoothly for me now. It might've had something to do with the connection. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 06:42, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

List of locations by name

I personally think the page should stop excluding named routes. Even if we somehow made the definition clear, I still don't want people checking both that page and "list of routes" to see if either of them has the location they want. I also don't see a good reason for the exclusion. I think excluding cities and numbered routes is okay because people can tell if somewhere is a city or numbered route just by looking at the name. Even then, I'm leaning toward including cities because some places (like Two Island) don't end in "City" or "Town" and aren't obviously cities. sumwun (talk) 05:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Staff imitating user

Форс файре is a cyrillisation of your name. --Raltseye prata med mej 18:47, 18 July 2018 (UTC)


The user Nintenchris5963 (talk · contribs) added something to the Talk:Mt. Silver which I'm pretty sure isn't allowed on talk pages. Should the comment he made be removed or should it stay? (I'm only asking since it's normally not allowed to remove Talk Page comments). Ice Cream 10:46, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

You can remove comments that breach the talk page policy.--ForceFire 11:53, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

"Faint" versus "Get knocked out"

"Faint" is the more technical term, so I try to change "knocked out" to "faint" wherever I can. Also, a few days ago, I tried to look for information about fainting by doing ctrl+f "faint" and couldn't find anything because the article said "knocked out" instead, so what I wanted took me a few minutes longer to find. I eventually made that edit in attempt to save time for anyone who might attempt the same thing in the future. sumwun (talk) 15:03, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

That sounds like a problem specifically for you. We are not going to cater the site whenever you face a problem. "Knocked out" carries the same meaning as "fainted", like what else could it possibly mean.--ForceFire 15:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
The reasons why "fainted" is better than "knocked out", however insignificant, exist. Is there a reason why "knocked out" is better than "fainted"? And aren't we supposed to use technical terms over "fanmade terms" whenever possible? sumwun (talk) 23:25, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Neither is better, but both mean the same thing in spirit (unable to battle). It's not a necessary change. And "knocked out" is not "fan made" it's just a word used to substitute "fainted". Using a word that is not official doesn't make the word "fan made", that's just being ridiculous. Don't change things because you couldn't find something, just because you couldn't find something doesn't mean everyone else will face the same problem.--ForceFire 02:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
If neither is better, why do you care which one the article says? sumwun (talk) 17:28, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Because it's an unnecessary change. Just because we use another word other than fainted, doesn't make that word fan-made. Like in a plot synopsis, we're not going to use the term "fainted" every time a Pokémon faints, we're going to use other terms like "knocked out" from time to time. Y'know, have a bit of variety in our articles.--ForceFire 05:12, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
That section was a game mechanic, not a plot synopsis. Aren't they different? sumwun (talk) 17:45, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
That's not the point. The point is, it's an unnecessary change. Stop reading what you want to read. It doesn't matter if it's not using the word "faint". Using another word other than "faint" doesn't make the article more inaccurate. It's just a word. You're thinking too much into it. No one will get confused by the term "knocked out". They'll know what it means.--ForceFire 05:09, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
I think what Force Fire tries to tell you isn't "don't change specifically this to specifically that", it's rather "don't change anything if the change doesn't clearly improve the article". The larger the number of edits, the more work there is for the servers; we should only change anything if it's justified. That's why he cares which one of the equally good terms stays — because changing it will unnecessarily overload servers. First come, first served in this case. Kikugi (talk) 15:37, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Mallow Tsareena Sweet Scent

Hi. So in SM082 Mallow's Tsareena does something that some would describe as Sweet Scent, as it has a similar appearance and effect to how the move was used in its pre-evolved forms. PlayerKing95 has removed it because we don't have enough proof, despite the evidence pointing towards it. I, as well as another user, has reached out to him to discuss it. It has been more than a week now and he has ignored multiple messages to resolve this issue, and it is making me think that he will continue to ignore messages because it means the page can't be changed. Could I get some help with this? Thank you. --Rahl (talk) 14:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

I have given him a message. I currently have no strong opinions on this matter, generally we can say it's Sweet Scent because the animation is unlikely to change upon evolution. But I'm interested in what Playerking has to say.--ForceFire 15:11, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, looks like he finally responded to it. Based on his answer is it safe to put Sweet Scent back on, as there doesn't seem to be an argument against it.--Rahl (talk) 16:14, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
Hello again. It's been a couple weeks and I was wondering what the status of Sweet Scent is. Thanks.--Rahl (talk) 13:59, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Random question

When I type just about anything in the search bar, the autocomplete suggestions always appear in the same order. For example, typing only "user:" always displays "User:Tiddlywinks", "User:Force Fire", "User:Raltseye", "User:SnorlaxMonster", etc. in that order. Do you have any idea what determines that order? sumwun (talk) 04:12, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Pretty sure the ordering is just random.--ForceFire 04:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
If it was completely random, would it still put more active users closer to the top? sumwun (talk) 04:35, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
It's probably fixed, random but fixed. The listing probably wouldn't change regardless of how active a user is.--ForceFire 04:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
It could be fixed by the most visisted user pages. --Raltseye prata med mej 11:00, 6 August 2018 (UTC)


Could you give a summary rather than only reverting a contribution without reason, that's irritating. - unsigned comment from KyleRGiggs (talkcontribs)

He's reverting you because this is the mandatory writing style for a recurring character in the anime and you're pointlessly changing it at Professor Burnet. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:45, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Exactly. Your reasoning for removing it didn't even make sense, and if you actually read other anime character articles, other recurring characters also use the term "reappears".--ForceFire 04:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
So DID both of you read the article CAREFULLY why "Since their marriage, Burnet has moved in with Kukui and Ash and has made regular appearances in the Sun & Moon series ever since." is present in the sentence? So why don't Professor Kukui being "reappear" for every episode? Regular appearancing should not be recurring? I don't get the sense. - unsigned comment from KyleRGiggs (talkcontribs)
Just because someone makes regular appearances, doesn't mean we can't use the word "reappear". Besides, the two don't appear that regularly, especially for Burnet who only appeared once in between SM071-80 (not counting the PokeProblem segment) and Kukui only physically appears four times in that 10 episode span. And sign your comments.--ForceFire 05:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
I did read that sentence. To be honest, that sentence needs to be reworded. As Force Fire said, it's not as regular as that sentence implies. If she did appear "regularly", then she'd actually be a main character, and then the need to list every episode she appears in is diminished. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:46, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Random stuff

Since I last contacted you, I've come up with a few new things to ask every now and then, but they keep slipping my mind when I don't talk about them. Hence why I've decided to dedicate this section of the talk page for subjects that I come up with and need admin help for, which means that I may sometimes come back here when I come up with something new. But anyway, let's get started with the most recent subject I've come up with: the Looker Bureau post-game story from X and Y. Since the Delta Episode and Episode RR have their own pages, shouldn't the Looker Bureau storyline also get its own article? I think it would deserve it.
Oh, and speaking of new articles: has my suggestion of splitting the Kantonian Gym and Tide Song Hotel into their own location articles been moving forward? Has it received enough approval to actually be done some day? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:17, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I did bring them (Kantonian Gym and Tide Song Hotel) up with the other staff members, didn't really come to a solid conclusion. For me, they both appear to have very little information text wise (from what is already there), and what we don't want are articles that are just one paragraph and a whole bunch of templates. I think it'd be good to create them in your userspace to see how the page will look.
The Looker saga could be made into it's own page. Make on in your userpage so the staff can decide if it's needed.--ForceFire 05:22, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
I've created the page for the Kantonian Gym here, and I also intend to start making the Tide Song Hotel and Looker Bureau pages as soon as I find the time for it. In the meantime, though, there's a couple of other things I would like to bring up.
Firstly, this talk regarding the X and Y rival's father. Evidence heavily suggests that Calem/Serena's father is a Veteran Trainer who can be found in Snowbelle City, but for the last bit of confirmation, we need someone who can read Japanese. Could you ask someone to help with that?
And secondly... Secondly... Well, this is exactly why I should come here to vent ideas out of my head more often. I've forgotten my second point. Embarrassing, I know, but I'll come back to it once I remember it.
--FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 07:22, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Ah, I remember now! Some time ago, I created a category for Legendary and Mythical Pokémon locations, my intention being to have it attached to the {{legendarylocations}} template. However, said template is protected, so I'd need help from a user like you to put it there. Could you do it? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:59, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
I've brought the Kantonian Gym page to the others. There was talks of the Serena's father issue a while back, I think one of the staff members found in game text supporting it, though I asked again to be sure. Navigation templates only need the Navigation template category, the category you provided would go on the actual location pages.--ForceFire 09:59, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, looking forward to the results.
Yes, it's been proven that the gender pronoun used by the supposed father changes depending on the player character's gender, but we now also have links to two Japanese videos to see if this occurs in the Japanese version too, which could count as the final piece of evidence, and is why we need someone who can understand Japanese to confirm it.
I mean like this: <includeonly>[[Category:Legendary and Mythical Pokémon locations]]</includeonly> When a category is attached to a template like this, it will only apply to the pages where said template is used at, not the template itself. That's what I would like you to do, if possible.
--FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:56, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
I've now finished the Tide Song Hotel page as well. You can find it here. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:20, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
Excuse the delay. The Looker bureau post game story can be made, with the title "Looker events" as that is what it's called in-game, according to another staff member. Haven't gotten much feedback regarding the other stuff that you brought up. I'll keep you updated regarding those.--ForceFire 07:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the update. Will do. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
I haven't started working on the Looker evernts yet, but I haven't forgotten about them. In the meantime, though, there's an issue that has been bugging me for years now, which nobody has appparently done anything to fix yet. I'm talking about Generation VI models. Not only are we still missing most VS models from at least one set of the Generation VI core series games, we are also still missing a couple VS models: Archie and Zinnia are missing their VS models altogether (they've been using temporary ones for years now), and Brendan and May are missing their VS models with a Mega Bracelet. I've also wondered if the difference between the Team Flare Grunts who are striking a pose and those who aren't would warrant alternate VS models for them, but that's a lesser priority in my books.
And, as for a more recent case of the same issue, we're still missing several US/UM VS models as well, including the Master & Apprentice and Sparring Partners VS models and Gladion's VS model with a Z-Power Ring. Could you bring this up with people who could possibly fix these issues? I've tried to do it myself a couple times over the years, but it has never lead to anything. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 09:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Oh, almost forgot! Giovanni's first VS model is a bit dark, and Professor Kukui is also missing his model with the Z-Power Ring. PS. Has the Serena/Calem father topic been solved? Can it be considered confirmed? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:18, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
The VS sprites are something that is still ongoing, it just gets lower and lower on the priority list whenever something new comes around. It's something that will be done, "when" I can't really say for sure. Users are free to upload the models themselves, granted they get it from somewhere that isn't a fan site.--ForceFire 11:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
Figures. I'm just a guy who hates incompleteness, so these lingering cases of incompleteness tend to bug me a lot. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:17, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
For a while now already, I've been planning a massive edit project, where I go over every single page with a Stadium and Stadium 2 party template, and change the number of Poké Balls in the template(s) to 3 instead of 6 (since only three of the six Pokémon are always used per battle), as well as remove the word "Pokémon" from the game name, as it isn't that way in any other game party templates either. But that's why I've come here for you this time: in preparation for this project, could you edit {{Party/Single}} to include codes for Stadium and Stadium 2 in the game name section? And while we're on the topic of this template, do the Battle Chatelaines alone warrant a combined code for X, Y, OR, and AS, and the few version-exclusive Battle Tree Trainers from Generation VII codes for S/US and M/UM, respectively? PS. I hope you understood that last part. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:51, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. I saw you just doing this, and I'm honestly really grateful for it, but in case you didn't know, when we refer to "Pokémon Stadium", the link should go to "Pokémon Stadium (English)", instead of just "Pokémon Stadium". --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 07:37, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Never mind. You noticed that yourself. Sorry. XP --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 07:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Added Stadium/2 to the template. As for changing the Poké Ball number, I'm iffy about it. I get what you're saying, but they still have six possible Pokémon. As for the last request, I assume you mean for the party template?, if so, they're already coded in.--ForceFire 07:40, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Yeah. Personally, I'm inclined to keep the six Poké Balls too, but, as you can see here, for example, some user(s) apparently think that the number of shown Poké Balls should be equal to the maximum number of Pokémon that can be used from said selection of Pokémon at a time. Hence why most PWT teams have six Balls, since all six Pokémon are used if the Triple Battle format is in used. Then there's also the case where the pool of possible Pokémon is greater than six, but I can understand that one.
As for the codes, I meant as in a code of "XYORAS" turning out as "X, Y, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire", and codes "SUS" and "MUM" turning out as "Sun and Ultra Sun" and "Moon and Ultra Moon", respectively. However, as I said, the former would only apply to the four Battle Chatelaines, while the latter ones would only apply for the few Battle Tree Special Trainers who are version-exclusive, so I wondered if that's a good enough reason for those codes to be created. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 09:26, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
For the Kukui article, I think the line "Master Rank challenge of the Battle Royal, using three of the following Pokémon" will suffice. If they're confused, then they are just flat out not reading the article. As for the stadium articles, I think a similar line could work.
Ah I see, I've added the code for those.--ForceFire 09:45, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks a ton! Now there's nothing stopping me from starting my grand edit project! And it's going to be even easier I expected, thanks to you!
Nice work... Except that you made a small typo. You accidentally wrote "SUM" instead of "MUM" for "Moon and Ultra Moon". --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Another small typo found. The link for Stadium 2 leads just to "Pokémon Stadium". You forgot the "2" from the end. Whoops...
Also, another unrelated thing: in Pokémon Colosseum, the player character starts the game off with a number of healing items in their Bag. Does this qualify as a method of acquiring these items for their respective articles? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:52, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Fixed. As for the items, I'd say those count.--ForceFire 07:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
I think we need a link template to make the Alola game links easier to create, as writing "[[Pokémon Sun and Moon|Pokémon Sun, Moon]], [[Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon|Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon]]" for a link version of "Pokémon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon" again and again can get tiresome, plus it eats up a lot of unnecessary space. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure how, so I've come to ask for your help again. Can you do it, or at least ask someone else to do it? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 09:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Took a while to remember what the template was, but Template:Game4 exists, though I edited it to add USUM. Typing the code {{game4|Sun|Moon|Sun|Moon}} should give you this: Pokémon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, and Ultra Moon.--ForceFire 11:54, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you! Also, another issue regarding link templates: when adding a link to a Pokémon's alternate form, it's usually written as {{DL|List of Pokémon with form differences|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}, which, like the previous thing you fixed, is a bit lengthy, especially if done repeatedly. So I've been thinking about the creation of a link template to fix the issue, going something like this: {{form|<Pokémon>|<Form name>}}, which would lead to the correct section of List of Pokémon with form differences, based on the contents of the second slot (the one with <Pokémon> in my example here). Do you think this could/should be made? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 13:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Also, I just noticed: your edit on {{game4}} was a bit flawed. The "Sun and Moon" part of the link includes the word "Versions", even though it's not supposed to. I saw you fixed this issue regarding the "Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon" part of the link, but it seems you still missed something. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 06:04, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Did you miss my above messages? Or have you just been too busy to answer yet? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
I purposely left the "versions" in the first link as I wasn't confident whether adding a switch would mess the template up and mess up other pages that are using the template, so I didn't risk it. I'll bring up to idea for a "form template" to the other staff members, though I think it's a fine idea.--ForceFire 12:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
1) Oh. I see. Well, I've already used the template on a couple pages, so now what? 2) Thank you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 13:32, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Just leave the ones you've added. I'll tweak the template in a userspace at some point. As for the form template, Abcboy has already made a template in his userpage, that'll be under consideration.--ForceFire 13:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Thank you. Also, whoa. It appears that this template idea wasn't as new as I thought. Let's hope it'll finally get mainspaced some day. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 14:04, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for helping me out with EternalDragonX (talk · contribs). He also left a reply to your response already, just in case you haven't noticed yet. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:45, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
He still doesn't believe either of us. Could you do something about it? And, if possible, could you continue the talk with him on his page instead of mine? PS. His refusal to use big capital letters in talk pages irks me. I know there's technically nothing wrong with it, but if you see fit to notify him about it too, then please do. If you don't, I won't hold it against you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:18, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
A few days ago, he started arguing with me about another subject (s). Please help me. I'm seriously growing tired of this. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 18:39, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
I'll leave a message on their talk page.--ForceFire 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 05:55, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
After a bit of absence from this talk page, I'm back again. Regarding the Master Trainer article, how do we list the Trainers? Do we do it in the regular Trainer class Trainer list fashion, or some other way? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 15:21, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello? Did you miss my above post? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
It's currently being discussed by staff members, precisely to what extent do we want to detail the trainers. The trainers will be listed in table format, by the way.--ForceFire 11:49, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
OK. In that case, I'll just wait and see how it'll be done. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:00, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Immediately, another thing: as I'm now editing "Rocket Hideout" links to "Team Rocket Hideout", I discovered that Pokémon Reorchestrated: Kanto Symphony had been protected in 2016 because of "speculation crackdown". Whatever the issue was back then, I'm pretty sure it's long gone by now. Could the page be unprotected now? PS. Funnily enough, turns out that I was the last person to edit that page before it was protected, way back in 2015. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:16, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Done.--ForceFire 07:31, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks a ton! That's the last redirect link I need to edit! (Since I'm naturally not touching user or talk pages.) --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:17, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
My next thing is in regards to {{Sign}}. It hasn't been updated in years, and I personally feel like we need new sign styles for the games that have come out since. What do you think? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
I've brought it up with the other staff members. Not too sure what the status of the template is, whether it's discontinued or not.--ForceFire 04:53, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Undoing changes

Please, don't revert changes as I add information that a Focus Sash can be stolen from Iris' Haxorus during all the battles. I don't want to cause an edit war, but I placed the information in the correct row (B2W2). TheICTLiker4 (talk) 06:56, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

And as Finnish said, you don't permanently keep the item. It doesn't count.--ForceFire 07:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)


What does "status" mean when used to describe Bulbapedia users? Like, how do we know the difference between "hiatus" and "inactive"? How long of a break counts as a hiatus? What does "X" mean? sumwun (talk) 01:31, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

If someone is on "hiatus", that means they are away for some time but will return eventually, how long the hiatus is differs between staff members. "Inactive" is detailed here. X denotes someone of high authority, they may not be very active but they are still very important staff members.--ForceFire 11:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
If someone says he/she/it is on hiatus and doesn't come back, then how long does it usually take for other people to change that person's status to "inactive"? sumwun (talk) 18:18, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
That decision is up to the Editor in Chief.--ForceFire 04:34, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Okay thanks. sumwun (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Possible inappropriate name

Someone under RAEVEisdumb (talk · contribs) was created after someone called RAEVE (talk · contribs) was just created. Should it be flagged? Ice Cream 19:43, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

I've blocked the former but left the latter unblocked. I could block them both since they both share the same IP, but since RAEVE hasn't done anything yet, I'll leave them unblocked unless they become a problem.--ForceFire 04:34, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

PardescanSlowbro again

I have tried to offer constructive criticism on PardescanSlowbro's spelling of "compliment" in this edit, but once again, he responded with paranoia, a refusal to cooperate, and accusations of edit-stalking ([5] [6] [7] [8]). In the last diff, he even had the gall to tell me I shouldn't be contacting anyone if that's how I'm going to talk to people. This is in spite of me admitting that my original message unintentionally did not come across as constructive and apologizing for that. I cannot even talk about the most basic constructive criticism with this guy, and it is so frustrating. I was actually hoping I could have a more in-depth discussion about his writing style in regards to his recent edits, but given that he's always reacting like this in some form or fashion, I cannot muster the courage to talk to him, no matter what the subject is. I can't even properly talk to him about the minor stuff (silly, I know, but I can't even talk to him about the major stuff in the first place). I talk to other users the same way I'm talking to him, yet he's always the one who responds with hostility and vitriol. I'm really not trying to be malicious towards him or anything like that. Can you please comment on this? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 08:59, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Grammarfreak at it again

I know, you're very busy. But it seems that Grammarfreak are trying everything to post his/her claim are right. While everyone is wrong. Especially, when he illegally created it voice actress article without admin permission. Especially for trying to make it sounds he taken command of everything. If you can, could you please ban him/her. I tired of his aggression and persistent changing the sentences to be great. Thank you! Singaporean (talk) 02:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

I already told you, I didn't know you already had a userspace article for Sumire Morohoshi in the works, and I'm sorry about that! That aside, how is that "illegal"? I admitted it was a mistake caused by a lazy eye. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
You know, you create with one article after another without admin permission is already officially illegal. That is also included disrespectful to me after all the hard work, I have done and learns to make a better article. But it seems that, you had a history of pattern aggressive toward everybody. I wasn't surprised, your primary target now is me. It wasn't take every long in a next few day. You will ditch my all my userspace edited and try to create one to waste more page to fill in the empty to draw attention to everyone. Remind you again, this is not your playground of editing. Singaporean (talk) 03:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
A while back, I asked Tiddlywinks about the process of creating VA articles, and they directed me to Bulbapedia:Project VA without mentioning anything else. The main project page never, EVER said anything about having to consult with the admins first before the creation of an individual article, and trust me, I read through that thing thoroughly. I've been at this since last month, and no one has given me any warnings or blocked me for creating so many VA articles during that time. This is in comparison to the warning I got from Tiddlywinks hours after I created the Ash's Pikachu (M20) article (which was what motivated me to ask Tiddlywinks about the VA articles in the first place). Because of all that, I took it that my actions were already cleared by Tiddlywinks and I didn't even have to worry about asking the admins any further.
If it was supposed to be common sense for me to just alert the admins about the creation of any kind of article beforehand, then I do apologize for that. I was simply following everything that was laid out for me at Bulbapedia:Project VA, with the misconception that Tiddlywinks was alright with everything simply because I contacted him only once before my article creation spree. And trust me, I am now reviewing all of the other userspace articles you've got so I will know which VAs you are already working on. I'm so sorry if you felt cheated and that your hard work on the Morohoshi userspace article was wasted because of me. I swear, I was not aware of that userspace article, and that is not going to happen again, I promise. Especially now that you've got your own eye on me and my conduct. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:48, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Regardless of your apologize to me or not. The action will be leave to Force Fire to dealt with. Even though of the risk for me being banned one more time again. I also satisfied. Singaporean (talk) 03:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
I'm well aware that it's all up to Force Fire, given the severity of your complaints against me. I'm just trying to explain what you would call my more egregious actions. I at least have that right to do so, don't I? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:59, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

GrammarFreak already clarified that he didn't see your userpage, Singaporean. No need to overreact the way you did. He apologized, move on. Anyone can create a VA article, granted that it fits the notability criteria. Users can make it on the mainspace, only if they are capable of making it up to Bulbapedia standards upon making the article (to which I feel GrammarFreak did). And don't take that as an invitation to create VA article on the mainspace, Singaporean.--ForceFire 07:18, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

If you say so, then I will go ahead and create all my remaining work directly without the need of my userspace. Thanks. Singaporean (talk) 12:30, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
No. I did not say you can make them in the mainspace. I literally said it in my response. The ones you made on your userspace still needs to be approved. And that is NOT how you move userpages to the mainspace.--ForceFire 12:59, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
My apologized for my rush work. I didn't know about it. It is already almost a year and I didn't heard anything about you and the other approved my work to main article is just really frustrating. I do hope, you can give me an answer after a few days later. Thank you! Singaporean (talk) 13:05, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

A strange user talk page

Hello and sorry if I'm bothering you, but I started to wonder, if such content as this is OK to have on one's user talk page. This doesn't seem to aggressively promote some service, thought it does have a weblink. However, the topic is so NOT Pokémon... is this allowed? Is this evidence of a spammer? The user page was created three minutes before the talk page. Thank you! Kikugi (talk) 12:33, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Dealt with. Those are usually spambots.--ForceFire 12:55, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Search bar problems

I just started having a problem with the search bar at the left of my screen. Every time I type something in, it won't show me a list of options, and every time I try to look up a list of pages containing a certain word(s), it won't show the lists. Instead, there's a message that reads, "An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later." I definitely know I'm not misspelling anything. What's going on with that? GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:15, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Staff are aware of the issue and will try to get to the bottom of it asap.--ForceFire 05:01, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Okay. That's good to know. Thanks for the heads-up. :) GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Internal error

Occasionally, since about last week, I've been getting these "Internal error" messages every time I try to submit an edit. I manage to get through it, but the frequency of these messages is starting to increase and I don't know what's going on. This is an example of the "Internal error" message I tend to get.

[8e5e0cf8d713375f0b2bb8b3] 2018-09-17 04:55:29: Fatal exception of type "Error"

Would you mind getting to the bottom of this? Thank you. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:57, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm still getting these messages with intensifying frequency. Here's the latest one:
[d52bf67181c53700b65c1f44] 2018-09-18 04:52:01: Fatal exception of type "Error"
GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Staff are aware of the issues and are looking into it.--ForceFire 05:58, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 19:19, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
I'm not sure what's being done to rectify this problem, nor do I presume to know, but for the record, I'm still having these problems. Here's the latest one I got:
[39026dee922ac834907c8f6e] 2018-09-20 07:23:46: Fatal exception of type "Error"
GrammarFreak01 (talk) 07:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
My apologies, but this problem is still happening for me. Is the staff still investigating the issue? Or did they think they found a solution and implemented it already? Not that I doubt anyone's effectiveness in this matter. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 23:43, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Still haven't heard back on whether the problem was fixed or not, but I'll ping the higher ups about the issue.--ForceFire 04:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 04:45, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Transfer-only moves and ability changes

Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like Pelipper clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? sumwun (talk) 18:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)


A little heads-up, it looks like in spite of your advice, Zlblosser18 is still removing templates. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 20:22, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

It also seems like they're disregarding my advice that titles like Pokémon Origins and Pokémon Generations are not traditionally italicized here. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 20:25, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Looks like TiddlyWinks has given them a final warning. --ForceFire 04:33, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
Seems like it. I'll withdraw the complaint, then. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:02, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

floor order cont

im confused, youre saying the ordering will be RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS regardless of floor order? so do you mean list all rby items before gsc or put them together if there are two items on the same floor? yes, i am using common sense by not putting an item deep in the dungeon first, but what if said deep item were to be on one of the earlier floors if not the earliest? then floor order dictates i would have to list said item before many of the other items i pass by before i even get to it. thats why floor order is bad. i know were not a walkthrough, but we have to list the items in one way or another, and like you said, it should make sense atleast right? I understand that it is not a "high" priority. but if i can list in an order that makes sense, why not? is floor order really a higher priority? again im trying to say that floor order is bad. --EternalDragonX (talk) 12:58, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, the game order will still be the same regardless of the template going by floor order. If an items exist in more than one set of games and is in the same location, the games get put together.
Just so we're on the same page here, when you say "deep" you mean tucked in the furthest part of the first floor, right? Because there's no way the place I just described could be the first thing you come across. If you mean if the player traverses from the opposite end (say Victory Road, Pokemon League entrance to Route 22 entrance), then that's not really important. The location ordering should be from the player's first run through of the area (so Route 22 to Pokemon League).
Sorting by floor order helps users see what items are available at a certain floor in one grouping. It'd actually be more confusing if the listing were to alternate between "Floor 1" and "Floor 2", especially if there's suddenly a "Basement floor" in between them.--ForceFire 14:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
may i suggest instead of RBY>GSC>FRLG>HGSS, that it be RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS? because rby frlg are basically the same games and a lot of the time they will have items that are common to all of them, but also a lot of the time frlg will have some new items, and shoving gsc items in between would not only look weird, but confusing.
yes i mean for example tucked away in a place on the first floor that also serves as the back exit. therefore in a regular playthrough, most players would pick up said item last, since you run by every other item before it. victory road is a perfect example of what im talking about. of course i wouldnt list the items as if they were going from indigo plateau to route 22. that makes no sense. if you look at the list: i list guard spec ultra ball and full restore on floor 2 after overheat on floor 3. why? because those 3 items are grouped in an area in floor 2 that can only be accessible after passing through the entirety of floor 3; the area in this case being the exit. so in my head, this ordering makes perfect sense. blindly following floor order would mean i would list these items before the max revive, which again i dont think makes much sense since we talked about how they literally cant be come acrossed before the floor 3 items. --EternalDragonX (talk) 18:11, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Any unpredictable order is bad. A reasonable person would generally expect to see everything for a floor together. If I see several items that start with something like 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever), it just looks messy to me. Nothing that extreme may occur in the games, but that's what your logic would demand. (And less extreme examples are still messy IMO.)
It's not exactly hard to look back to the "end" of a floor if there were items you just couldn't get to when you passed through the first part (if floors are grouped). But if floors aren't grouped, then if I see several items starting with "2F" and then that turns into "3F", I'm gonna think those were all the items on 2F in the list, and that can be very confusing. Tiddlywinks (talk) 00:34, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
altho i still believe that 1F, 2F, 1F, 3F, 5F (or whatever) would be better if it made sense that you'd get the items that way, i have argued my point to the fullest and i can respect it if you disagree. however, still waiting on you force fire to answer my question about listing the items in region order rather than game order. aka kanto>johto>hoenn etc. over rby>gsc>frlg etc. --EternalDragonX (talk) 00:57, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Ordering the games by RBY>FRLG>GSC>HGSS is fine, some (or a majority of) articles are like this.
So we are talking about the same thing, that brings up the question of why you are concerned about having to place an item that is deep in a dungeon as the first item. As I said, the order should be listed on the players first run through of the area. You don't need to worry about those that'll traverse the opposite way.
As for items that can only be accessed via another floor, group those under all the other Floor 2 items and say in the descriptor that it requires traversing through Floor 3. Putting those items below Floor 3 makes it a touch confusing, and also a bit walkthrough-ish. I guess it's just me being condescending, but players should be able figure that stuff (having to traverse through floor 3 to get to some floor 2 items) for themselves. And ass TiddlyWinks said, listing the items by floor looks much more cleaner and easier on the eyes.
Also, I saw and checked that you changed the template to be one big listing rather than separate listings. Maybe that should've been discussed first before making the edit. --ForceFire 04:47, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
i am concerned about having to place an item that is deep as the first item because if for example it was one of, if not the only, items on the first accessible floor (say floor 1), but not accessible unless you traverse one of the other floors (say floor 2), then we gotta list it first even tho you probably get the other items on floor 2 before it. you already answered this in your 3rd paragraph. like i said to tiddlywinks if u guys feel like floor order is cleaner then fine. i also like your solution of putting in the descriptor that it requires traversing through floor 3. i think ill do that. --EternalDragonX (talk) 14:33, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
about putting in the descriptor that obtaining an item requires traversing another floor.. would you just list that as a sentence at the end? or would you like put it in an asterisk at the end? --EternalDragonX (talk) 15:24, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Examples of these sorts of explanations/directions can be seen on pages like Frost Cavern, Victory Road (Kalos), and Haina Desert. The descriptions should be easily readable, which tooltips are not (mobile users cannot read them at all AFAIK). The only reason to consider a tooltip would be if the detail is exceptionally long. (Because a very long description is, itself, also not the most readable thing.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:24, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Satomi Kōrogi

I need help moving the Satomi Kōrogi article. The romanization seems to prefer using Satomi Koorogi instead but I am unable to move the article because of a redirect interfering. Thank you. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 22:33, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Moved.--ForceFire 03:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! :D GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:18, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Transfer-only moves and ability changes

Can we add a section to every Pokemon page that lists all the moves the Pokemon can know only if it originated in an earlier generation (move tutors, old TMs, etc.)? Cross-checking multiple pages for this information is annoying. Second, can we change the Pokemon infobox template to make pages like Pelipper clear that Pelipper can't have drizzle in Generations 3-6? sumwun (talk) 20:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I personally see no need in listing transferable moves, it's common sense. Of course a Pokémon that only knows X move in Gen III is going to know it if you transfer it to a Gen vII game. And it's really not much of a nuisance. Want a to know a Pokémon's moveset from a specific generation? go to the separate learnlists. Want a specific move? go to the specific move article. It's not that annoying.
The infobox templates is currently in discussions of an update. The update will accommodate having more abilities listed. Have patience.--ForceFire 07:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
The whole purpose of learnset sections was to put every move that a Pokemon can know in one place, right? If the learnset sections are not doing that, what other purpose do they have? sumwun (talk) 19:47, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
It's to list moves a Pokémon can learn in the current generation. Transferring moves isn't exactly "learning a move by level up or breeding in Generation VII". If a Pokémon can only learn a move in a previous generation, go to that generation's learnset or the move's article. You're only clicking one link, not 500. It's not as mundane as you're making it out to be.--ForceFire 04:29, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
It appears to me you're just saying how another question is easy to answer.
If you're seriously interested in this (not just stalling), let me suggest (with best intentions) to just try to answer "What moves can Pikachu know in a copy of, say, USUM?" by browsing Bulbapedia. I currently need more than 5 minutes, and I would consider this the central use case, and probably the most important question for competitive play. (It's not even easy to be confident the resulting list was exhaustive, so if you'd like, you may even post your list here, and let me see if I have any more.) Nescientist (talk) 09:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Saying "what can Pikachu learn in USUM" is literally the same as saying "what can Pikachu learn in Gen VII". Not Gen II. Not Gen IV. Saying a specific game means you're looking for a learnset from a specific generation. And it certainly does not take "more than 5 minutes" to find what you want. If you know what you're looking for, you have a Pokémon and move/generation in mind, it should only take you one minute top. A few clicks. You're not going to be scouring the entire site just to look for one move.--ForceFire 11:43, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Neither of these question were asked, you just continue to answer them.
Pikachu can know moves in USUM that it cannot learn in USUM, Mega Kick, for example. Nescientist (talk) 12:10, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
It's called a learnlist for a reason, moves a Pokémon can learn in a game or generation. Of course it'll know a move from a previous generation if you transfer it to a current game, that does not need to be spelled out. No one is going to think that it won't know the move once they transfer the Pokémon. If users want to know what moves it can learn previously, they can browse the site.--ForceFire 12:24, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent)I'm not sure you understand me/us (or even try to, really). So, just for me to get this clear: Are you saying that, in your opinion, a) the question "What moves can <species> know in <game/generation>?" is not relevant, not worthwhile for Bulbapedia to easily provide an answer to, and that b) species pages should only provide moves a Pokémon can learn in the current generation? Nescientist (talk) 14:14, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

It's not hard to find what you're looking for, all you're doing is clicking on one link, totaling up to a few seconds. If you had to go through page after page, I can get why it'd be annoying or hard. But it's not.--ForceFire 14:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm beginning to feel confident you're just stalling. I'm asking questions, I don't get answers.
I'll just continue trying to keep this simple: Please list all moves Pikachu can know (in a USUM game). If it's not hard, I'd be glad to hear that it's easily possible using Bulbapedia (and preferably also how). Also (and in particular if you're unable or unwilling to list all of Pikachu's moves), please answer the two questions I just asked, a) and b). Nescientist (talk) 15:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Bulbapedia is not a strategy guide. Comp is not our focus.
You're highlighting comp as your reason for a promoting "moves a [species] can know" angle. But there's a bunch of comp stuff we're never going to do. We're not doing tier lists. We're not gonna tell you what "good" movesets are. Comp is no reason that we would "have" to accomodate anything.
That's not to say we're thoroughly hostile to a list of "legacy" moves.
But kind of like ForceFire has said, learnlists ARE for what a Pokemon can learn within a generation. It doesn't strictly make sense to include "legacy" moves; that's a concern that comes from a pretty specific focus like comp/challenges.
Yes, it would be somewhat easier if we had a list of legacy moves. But (to repeat myself) that's not necessarily our focus and you can figure the information out if you really need to.
(And to repeat myself once more, we're not hostile to a legacy move list. I just can't tell you if/when it might happen at the moment.) Tiddlywinks (talk) 15:39, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Tiddlywinks.
I may be highlighting comp as the use case, and/but I know it's not our focus, I don't do so because I want to promote comp or anything. What I'm basically trying to do is rephrase Sumwun's question of what use case species (or learnset) pages currently try to serve; basically, why are they there, what are they supposed to easily provide an answer to:
"What move can <species> learn in <game/generation>?" may be equally sensible/important, but if the pages were focused (solely/primarily) on that, there would be no need to have an "By events" subsection (to a lesser extent, probably not even "By breeding"), and I think we can all agree that this information is valuable/sensible. What I'm thinking, and what I believe Sumwun thinks, is that a "By transfer from a prior generation" subsection is equally valuable/sensible.
Anyway, I know how that's a hassle to create or even design, and I'm not forcing it. But I'd like to stress that Sumwun's suggestion, in my opinion, is far from focusing on some weird, minor edge case, and is providing benefit. Nescientist (talk) 16:17, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
"Please list Pikachu's moves in USUM". Just go to its page. It's right there. Want to know it's previous moves, go click on one link. Easy. And I'm answering sumwun's reasoning of "cross checking multiple pages is annoying", since he's the one that stated this conversation. All you're trying to do is justify sumwun's laziness.--ForceFire 16:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Right now, I can't just click one link. Depending on how old a Pokemon is, I may need to click 1-6 links, load 1-6 learnset pages, and scan 2-25 sections. I would consider reducing this to 0 clicks and 1 section a big and worthwhile improvement. If this kind of laziness is unjustified, why do we have any learnset pages at all? We might as well be saying, "Want to know whether <Pokemon> can learn <move>? Load one move article and do one ctrl f. Easy."
By the way, I would also like to know the answers to Nescientist's 2 questions. sumwun (talk) 22:05, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
That's an exaggeration. If you know what you're looking for, it'll only taking you one-two clicks. You can't be searching for what move a Pokemon can learn previously without a set goal. You're playing Ultra Sun, but you want to know what it can learn in Diamond version. Diamond is the key word which equates to Gen IV. So you're already looking for its Gen IV learnset. Go to its page and click on Gen IV. Done.--ForceFire 11:54, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
I have moved this discussion to a more public place, so others have an easier opportunity to chime in (and so that possibly, ForceFire doesn't receive as much email notifications about messages not directed to them directly).
ForceFire, the question "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?" does not include "Diamond", and Pikachu (Pokémon) does not mention Mega Kick. I have detailed some more about what pages you'd need to traverse where I have continued the discussion I'm interested in.
Tiddlywinks, I have addressed some of your comments there, and would appreciate to get to know your opinions. Nescientist (talk) 12:18, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Pikachu cannot learn Mega Kick in USUM (hence why it's not there at first glance), but it can know it if you transfer it from another game (which is common sense, of course it's going to know Mega Kick if you transfer it, the game isn't going to force it to forget the move).
I just gave an example of how it only take one-two clicks to find what you're looking for. And you misinterpreted my example. If you're thinking of a certain game, you're automatically thinking of a certain generation. Go to the page and click on that specific generation.
You can convince me to change my mind, but so far, "it's too hard, annoying, and boring to sift through a few pages" is not convincing enough to change my mind.--ForceFire 12:28, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
I don't understand. Please name the page(s) I need to answer "What moves can Pikachu KNOW in USUM?". Nescientist (talk) 12:31, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent)When you say "know" you're saying what it can learn via other means, and that includes transfer. The pages are the previous gen learnset pages, those are the moves Pikachu can know in USUM if you were to transfer it to USUM. Honestly...--ForceFire 12:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

And those are six, plus Pikachus page, that's seven. (I even mentioned other difficulties at the other page.) It's not easy, it's hard. Nescientist (talk) 12:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
If you have a game in mind, you have a generation in mind. You mentioned Mega Kick, Pikachu can only learn it in Gen I, III, and VI. So you're ONLY going to click one of those link, not the other links. Why would you. You already have the generation you need, you don't need to click on the others. If someone is unsure of the generation, they would look through the move article and ctrl+f "Pikachu".
It's like if I wanted to watch a certain Johto league episode, but I don't know which number it is. I'm not going to watch the entirety of the XY series, I'm going to look through the Johto arc.--ForceFire 12:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
You're exactly right there, but you're answering "Can Pikachu know Mega Kick in USUM?", not "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM?". I have no prior knowledge that Mega Kick is a possible solution. Nescientist (talk) 12:47, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
If you don't have a move in mind, then you have a previous generation in mind (to transfer from). If you have neither in mind, then you're not really looking for "what move can Pikachu know in USUM".--ForceFire 12:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm positive that I have neither in mind, and that I am looking for "what moves can Pikachu know in USUM". Nescientist (talk) 13:22, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Then you're not transferring then. The only other viable option of wanting to know what moves Pikachu can know is events, since everything else it learns, and events are already listed.
If you're transferring Pokémon, you already have either a generation or move in mind. You're either thinking "I want to transfer Pikachu from <game>, but am not sure what it can learn in that game", which you then click on the appropriate generation moveset. Or you're thinking "I know Pikachu can learn <move> in a previous generation, but I don't know what game", which you then go to the move page and ctrl+f PIkachu.
If you're not thinking of neither of those, then you aren't looking to transfer Pokémon.--ForceFire 13:46, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm not thinking of a specific generation. I want to know the answer to "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM".
I can post some more special questions that require the same page traversion, such as "Can Pikachu know a sleep-inducing move?" (i.e., can I get a Pikachu on my copy of USUM with a sleep-inducing move, by whatever means?"), or "What is the most powerful move Magikarp may know in USUM?" (i.e., what's the maximum base power for any move a Magikarp may know in USUM, by whatever means).
These should be questions you may understand better. Please try to answer them. (If you do, you will find out that you won't find the answers at the species pages alone.) Nescientist (talk) 15:50, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
If we are expected to be able to go to the move page and ctrl f the Pokemon's name for transfer-only moves, why are we not expected to do that for all moves? Why do we have full lists of level up moves and TM moves for each Pokemon?
By the way, another example of a question that would become a lot easier is, "What are all the ways I can get a Golem that knows a physical attack that is strong against psychic?" sumwun (talk) 22:20, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent)Nescientist... what do you mean by "know"? Because a Pokémon can "know" a move via transfer or events. If you have neither a generation or move in mind, then you are not transferring. You are just blindly going through pages for no reason. If you're question ends so vaguely at "What moves can Pikachu know in USUM", then I don't know what you're looking for because you're not explaining the method. It's either "What can Pikachu know in USUM via transfer" or "What can Pikachu know in USUM via events". If you're talking about transfers, then I've already answered that many times.

Wanting to know what "sleep inducing moves" or "highest possible power" is competitive fluff. We are not a strategy guide. Casual gamers aren't going to care about that stuff. A casual gamer is going to want to know what moves their Pokemon can know in the game they have in their hands without outside influence (i.e. transfer or events). They're not going to care about sleep inducing move or highest based power. Not everyone is a competitive player.

Sumwun, don't be difficult. I don't even know what you're talking about. If you have a move in mind, go to the move page and ctrl+f. If you have a game in mind, go to the appropriate learnset page. You are not going to be looking through the learnsets to look for a single move. No one is going to do that. No one is going to blindly look through six learnsets looking for just one move, when they can just go to the move article itself. It's not that hard. I don't think you understand what the different kinds templates are for, and assuming they're all do the same thing.

You're Golem question, like Nescientist's "sleep inducing" question is competitive fluff. Again, we are not a strategy guide. And your question was even more vague. What is the method you seek? level up? breeding? TM? what? Be more specific in your searches. I like to think users are browsing the site fully aware of what they are looking for, not exact but an idea of what they are looking for. By the sounds of it, you're browsing the site without a single thing in mind. It stops at "What can Golem learn/know" rather than specifying "What can Golem learn/know via this specific method".--ForceFire 04:31, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

I already rephrased what it means when I do not specify: it means "by whatever means", which means at all, by level-up or events or transfer or anything else. Moves a Pokémon may know in USUM. I'm explicitly not saying "by transfer only" (or anything else), I don't know why you insist I need to say that; because that is not what I'm asking.
Anyway, you seem to have understood that my specific questions (and Sumwun's) are hard to answer, not easy. (Which is good, because that's why I mentioned them; my original question is more general.)
I would object to your take that it's only competitive fluff (and I did so here). What do you think casual gamers would be looking for? If you're excluding what you call "competitive fluff", do you think they would need "By breeding"? (If so, why?) Nescientist (talk) 16:33, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
If nobody goes through learnset pages for moves, what do people use them for?
Transfer-only moves are not competitive fluff or strategy guides. They are real Pokemon information that is true even when nobody is competitive battling and is not at all fan-made, but they simply happen to be more useful to competitive battlers. If this kind of information isn't allowed on Bulbapedia, why do we have a page called "World Championships", which is pretty much the definition of competitive battling? sumwun (talk) 03:10, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Nescientist: This discussion is about transfer moves, so I assume you're talking about and looking for transfer moves. If you're looking for "anything at all", then you're not looking for anything specific so the bare minimum is already on the species article, you do not need to click on anything else. Everything it can know at bare minimum is right there.
I didn't even answer both of your questions. I basically said that they are irrelevant because we are not a strategy guide. We're not going to say "This Pokemon can know this move which is X power" because that is competitive fluff and strategy guide-ish. No casual gamer is going to think that specifically.
I just said what casual gamers are looking for "things their Pokemon can learn normally within the game they have in their hands, without outside influence like transfers and events". This includes, level up moves, TMs, and such. Breeding is game mechanic and should be listed, I don't regard it as competitive fluff.
Sumwun: I don't think you understand how these things work. People look through the learnsets to look for moves from a specific game or generation. They are looking for the entire moveset, not just one move. The entire moveset. If you're looking for one move, go to the move article. Looking for a moveset for a specific game, look through the learnset. It's not that hard to understand.
"World Championships" is an article detailing an event. It's not detailing strategies. It's not detailing what moves would be better. It's not detailing which Pokemon would be better. It's just detailing the event. Again, it's like you have no idea what that article is about.
It's real information, yes. But it can be seen by going through the moveset pages, because like I said, someone looking to transfer their Pokemon over so they can have a Pokemon with a move they can no longer learn, already have a game or move in mind. They are not blindly looking through pages.--ForceFire 06:23, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Just going to put my 2 cents in here (I'm not strongly for nor against):
1) Firstly, I think an important question that needs to be answered first is: Does a section on transfer-only moves have any role outside of the competitive field? All the examples raised at the moment have all been competitive play-oriented which I agree shouldn't be Bulbapedia's focus. I can think of one question where a transfer-only moves section could help with (e.g. "A Corsola I received from a trade has Whirlpool, Sucker Punch, and Secret Power. Is it hacked?" - although it wouldn't be too hard to find this information elsewhere + it is quite a specific question).
2) Another point that should be discussed is that some (albeit a small number of) moves may not be obvious to some users whether they can be transferred or not - e.g. inability to transfer most HMs, ability to transfer from VC, ability to transfer certain HMs (e.g. Defog, Whirlpool)
3) Lastly, I should note that a transfer-only moves section is likely to be longer than most will think (esp. as most of it is made up of moves which lost their TM status in a new gen) - though the length isn't as important --Wowy(토크) 07:01, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
i don't think your example is all that great, because force fire is going to say you would just look up the move pages of each of those individual moves and ctrl f for corsola. an example i could think of which is pretty niche, but possible i think, is "im dead set on having a corsola for my playthrough of ultra sun. i want it to have the best movelist possible; im willing to transfer from prev gens to do so. is there a quick way i can get a list of all those moves without having to go through all the pages?" so imo this new section for moves learned from prev gens isnt useless; theres definitely a benefit. i think the question is, is it worth it.
if you ARE going through the lists of previous gens, you already know what you ARENT looking for: every move learnable from the current gen. although i dont think going through lists for new moves requires THAT much work, i dont think the work is negligible either. --EternalDragonX (talk) 07:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I completely agree with you (maybe I should have made that more clear). I was just trying to give an example of a question which would be less competitive play-oriented (because the examples already given are not), and I as I said, the information could easily be found elsewhere --Wowy(토크) 08:48, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
I don't know how I can be any clearer, but the question is "What are moves Pikachu can know in USUM", i.e. by whatever means; it is not, I repeat, NOT something else. The species page alone does not answer it: you need that and all previous generation learnsets, at minimum. (And that's all I'm saying, basically. I believe you, ForceFire, finally understood that.)
Wowy, I believe it would only be beneficial if you presented your opinion at that other talk page (maybe even answered my question there). Anyway, I'm just gonna address your points here:
1. I wouldn't know how any question about moves would not have at least some relevance to competitive play; battles and moves are a central concept of the Pokémon franchise, and anyone who plays Pokémon should have some interest in competitive play. It's a different thing to talk about serious competitive battlers (like, those who maintain tier lists and whatnot), though; and I think they wouldn't really care what the answer to my two questions are (but I could be mistaken, because again, I'm not a competitive player myself). The Swinub I mentioned at that other page was purely non-competitive in that sense, too; I used it for a playthrough. As an aside, I guess the section I propose wouldn't necessarily answer your type of "legal" question; for example, a section would include both Pay Day and Mimic for Pikachu, but a Pikachu that knows both moves simultaneously would still be illegal (I think that's similar to how the current "By breeding" section cannot answer whether two Egg Moves at the same time are legal.)
2. I already said that at that other page when I explained that it is even harder to find out than I initially thought. (A "By transfer" section will not necessarily include all moves a Pokémon may have known at some earlier game (Pikachu can know Petal Dance, for example, but not in USUM by any means such as transfer); therefore, I also don't think Tiddlywinks' choice of the word "legacy moves" was exact for my proposal.)
3. I'm not sure it will be that long, but as you said, it shouldn't really matter.
Sumwun: I do understand what you're saying (and I agree), but you seem to derail the discussion with some of your more provocative questions (ForceFire never said Bulbapedia shouldn't cover anything that has anything to do with competitive play, for example). I hope that's not your intention, let's try to keep it simple. :)
ForceFire, moves listed under "By breeding" are not covered by the text you bolded (and by the way, in my opinion, those are about as much "competitive fluff" as "By transfer" is), "By events" even less. I think you didn't answer whether you think casual gamers would need "By breeding"!? (Or did you? I'm still - seriously - trying to get to the bottom of what you think move sections should cover and why.) Nescientist (talk) 16:57, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
You didn't even read what I wrote, because I already answered that in my previous response. And I know it's an outright lie when you say you don't have a game or generation in mind, because the question is "What can Pikachu know in USUM". You've singled out USUM. That is that game you have in mind. And since you're not looking for anything specific, just the bare minimum (level up, TMS) and that's already on the article. All moves that Pikachu can know through normal gameplay (i.e. not anything specific, by any means) in USUM are already on the Pikachu page. The species page already has the most current (i.e. USUM or Gen VII) moveset. Why are you even looking through the previous generation movesets if you're only looking for moves it can know inUSUM? It's already on the species page, you don't need to click on anything else.
Breeding is a game mechanic. It's as important as TMs and level up moves. The move sections should cover all moves a Pokémon can learn through normal gameplay in the most recent game or generation. Transferring isn't learning through normal gameplay". Sure, neither are events, but I can look past that because those are generally one time things and should be noted.--ForceFire 17:39, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Nescientist didn't ask for moves that could be known "through normal gameplay". He/she/it asked for moves that could be known "by whatever means", which includes transfer as well as normal gameplay. Is this not a valid question to ask? sumwun (talk) 18:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Sigh.. Going through it step by step:
  1. I did read your (whole) message.
  2. I did not lie.
  3. I am not looking for a bare minimum. (My question was on "moves Pikachu can know in USUM [by whatever means]".)
  4. What Sumwun said (and everyone, including Sumwun, should be able to see how it is a valid question to ask).
  5. I am looking through previous movesets because not all moves Pikachu can know in USUM are at Pikachu (Pokémon); Mega Kick, for example, isn't. (We've been there before, I mentioned that way up above, even rephrased it repeatedly.)
  6. Yes, I do need to click on something else to check, i.e. all previous movesets (at minimum).
  7. Transfer is a game mechanic.
  8. In my opinion, breeding is not quite as important as TMs and level-up moves, if only because I cannot—by no means—teach (an individual) Pokémon I already own its species' Egg Moves. (It's still important, though.)
  9. Finally, a "definition" of what you think move sections should cover: moves Pokémon may learn through normal gameplay within the generation, plus event moves. I'll just mention that they do already cover more than that, for example how Cubchoo may learn Avalanche in USUM.
Beyond that, of course, I can't be of any help to you when you claim that I didn't read your message and outright lied. And, up to this point, I was trying hard. Nescientist (talk) 20:02, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
I think the problem with the "outright lie" is that transferring a Pokemon requires 2 games. Nescientist knew that the END game would be US or UM. When Nescientist said he didn't have a game "in mind", he/she/it was referring to the START game, and his/her/its willingness to transfer a Pokemon FROM any game TO US or UM. Nescientist, is this right? sumwun (talk) 20:52, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
Yes, in your words/example, the end game would be USUM, but the start game could be anything (including USUM itself, i.e. no transfer at all). Nescientist (talk) 16:42, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
Should we bring this discussion to another administrator's talk page? sumwun (talk) 17:22, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Need your help

Hi there! Can you please help me with this discussion? I am tired of explaining to them that their obsession with having the current revision of a page is more of a hindrance than a help. Aside from the examples I offered in my talk page, you can check GrammarFreak01's latest edits to Marian's page. That sentence they edited was perfectly fine as it was, but they changed it for no reason other than being the last person to have edited the page.

In doing so, they added misleading information because they clearly have no knowledge on the matter, first by saying that Jessie was disguised as Jessedia "at the time", creating a false impression that she disguised as Jessedia on one occasion when in fact this is a recurring disguise Jessie has changed into at least three times, and then by saying she was "briefly disguised". Assuming you don't know, Jessie has appeared as Jessedia for the duration of the entire Kanto Grand Festival and the Wallace Cup's Battle Stage, as well as in DP093 when she was interviewing Fantina.

This is not what one would call "briefly". This is not a one-time disguise that is blown off by Ash and his friends at the end of the episode. It's a recurring thing, and GrammarFreak01 is apparently unaware of that and changing a sentence that was completely okay with their nonsense just to accomplish their "goal". It's getting tired and I'm asking for help because these are instances in which I got involved, but who knows the amount of wrong information they have added to the tons of pages they edit daily.

It's frankly discouraging to edit a page only to have its content vandalized (inserting gibberish into pages counts as vandalism, right?) by someone who has no idea what they're doing and are just trying to get the most recent revision of a page. Also, judging by their latest edit to my talk page, they expect me to be some sort of wizard who can see into the future and tell them that their edit is wrong before they even make it. I don't know how to respond to that and I'm not the only user who has complained about GrammarFreak01's bad editing habits. Something needs to be done about this situation and that's why I'm asking you to intervene. Please help. --Mikuri 15:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

I am well aware of how long Jessie has been disguised as Jessedia and what she used that disguise for. The original sentence in question just did not make sense to me from a grammatical standpoint. Also, for someone who constantly complains about me having a need to "have the current revision of a page", Mikuri has a nasty habit of editing articles hours and even minutes right after me, leading me to assume she is maliciously following me using my edit history. Examples of this are:
If you've noticed in the edit histories I provided, much of the articles hadn't been edited in months prior to my original edits. Then, when I make an edit, Mikuri follows after, which I find to be a complete contradiction to their complaints about my editing practices. This was also a problem back in June, when I first confronted Mikuri about it. The articles in question were:
At one point in our argument, I said this. I admit that it was poorly worded due to my blinding irritation of the situation (and that I probably should've changed it once I calmed down). But what I was hoping to convey was that if Mikuri had a problem with me trying to hog the latest revision of a page, they should've tried to take it to the talk page sooner, just like what was usually done with me whenever there was a problem.
Clearly, this is a problem that has been going on for months now and I would appreciate your mediation. I don't particularly care about any outcome anymore, so fire away. I only ask that this contradiction on Mikuri's part be addressed in some way. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 22:34, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
I started "maliciously following" GrammarFreak01's edit history after I noticed they were stalking my edits. Usually after I finished doing a major edit to a page, they would appear to unnecessarily tweak image sizes (something Tiddlywinks has warned them about) or make another one of their pointless edits. I accused them of doing that in some of my edit summaries and they decided to come to my talk page and call me paranoid. I could provide a laundry list of that, but I don't feel like it's needed. For one, GrammarFreak01's talk page is chock-full of messages telling them to stop with the pointless edits (and some of them were left there by you, Force Fire). In addition, I am not the only user who has complained about their edit stalking habits, as there is a message left by PardescanSlowbro detailing the exact same behavior.
In their defense, all GrammarFreak01 had to say is that they receive email notifications after someone edits a page they have edited in the past. So what? This is no excuse to go around and make needless edits only to have the current revision of a page. And that is the main point of this discussion: GrammarFreak01's history of wholly unnecessary edits that add nothing to our pages. Correction: sometimes their edits make the page worse, as they add wrong information about a subject they know nothing about only to have the most recent revision, as was the case with Yuzo's page. Their concern isn't quality content and accurate information, but rather an enormous amount of unverified nonsense. I honestly don't care if my revision isn't the current one and I don't have this kind of problem with any other user in this entire wiki, unlike GrammarFreak01. Several users have contributed to pages I had worked on, and you don't see me complaining about them. But GrammarFreak01 is not here to contribute, they're here to make unnecessary edits.
So yes, I can admit that I have edited several pages upon seeing one of GrammarFreak01's edits, but I guess this comes as no surprise considering the recent changes are there for everyone to see, and again, this was after I noticed they were stalking my edits and making unnecessary changes to them. And there's one notable difference: it was never to add information that was untrue about a subject I know nothing about. My point isn't that they are editing after me, but that those edits are needless. Editing a page after another user isn't a blockable offense, but inserting gibberish into pages is, as is edit flood and edit wars, behaviors also exhibited by GrammarFreak01. And I think it is worth comparing our contributions: I usually do a complete overhaul by adding verified information I gathered and uploading high quality images to the Archives, while GrammarFreak01 has a long and documented history of making pointless edits that add no real content to Bulbapedia and edit warring. --Mikuri 00:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
If you read the entire discussion, you will see that I explained myself and asked PardescanSlowbro for examples where my edits were unnecessary and clearly malicious. I was happy to address those concerns. But they did not get back to me on that. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 01:25, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

False positive abuse filter triggers

Hello, recently I tried to move a message I misplaced on a user's talk page (see log here) to the bottom where it should have been, but the abuse filter didn't let me. If you want to look into this, feel free. Ozank (talk) 16:43, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

He already responded to that. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 17:39, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I've already answered this on GrammarFreak's talk page. I think the system may have deemed moving sections (to the proper place) a drastic edit for a new user. Other than that, you should be fine once you've become a member for a period of time.--ForceFire 06:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Mimikyu's name

Hi there, Since you're the one who placed the warning in Mimikyu's "Name Origin", would you mind giving it a look here? Seeing that talking about it in the talk page was the recommendation, I'd like to discuss about it a little. Thanks. ExLight (talk) 01:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Mewtwo's voice actor

I just watched a video where it was revealed that the English voice actor of the original series Mewtwo was actually not Philip Bartlett. That was a stage name, and the Philip Bartlett who died years ago was a completely different person, with the real English voice actor behind Mewtwo and the Philip Bartlett stage name being a man named Jay Goede. I feel like this is worth checking into. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:22, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Judging by this and this, it's been acknowledged back in 2014.--ForceFire 09:38, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Ah. Okay. Sorry. Shouldn't there then be something like a tooltip on Mewtwo's page to indicate that "Philip Bartlett" is just a stage name? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 09:58, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Don't think it's too much of an issue to do so.

Troublesome user

Heads up. Clearly this user is not here to contribute. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:26, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Never mind, Abcboy took care of it. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 03:41, 24 October 2018 (UTC)


is it all right to repeat links from an above section in a lower one. and u know that internal error that was mentioned above? im still getting it. also i couldnt help noticing ur ignoring a poor man's cry for help up above. not a very nice thing to do, wouldnt u say? :) --EternalDragonX (talk) 14:16, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

If something has already been linked in a section, it does not need to be linked again. It's fine to have one link per section, only if said link isn't directly below the previous section. Once every few sections is fine, but not literally the next section below it.
The internal error issue is being looked into. There has been no updates yet on its progress.--ForceFire 05:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
so lets say a link keyword is in every section. you'd want it to be linked in every other section? 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. --EternalDragonX (talk) 06:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Use common sense. Also, you don't have to link every time the word "Pokémon species", "Pokémon trainer", or whatever appears.--ForceFire 06:21, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Voice Actors

Sent you an email with a list of voice actors from Lisa Ortiz, do I have your approval?--BigDocFan (talk) 16:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Those are fine to be added.--ForceFire 05:45, 7 November 2018 (UTC)


Why did you undo my edit to statistic? sumwun (talk) 17:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

You're change wasn't necessary. It was basically saying the same thing.--ForceFire 03:44, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
I changed "take effect" to "start affecting turn order", which does not mean the same thing. Speed has other effects, such as determining the base power of gyro ball and electro ball, and those other effects immediately respond to changes to speed. sumwun (talk) 04:52, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
The full sentence is " will not take effect until the following turn". What you changed it to is still saying that it wont take effect until the next turn.--ForceFire 05:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
What it currently says is false because it implies that changes to speed do not start affecting the power of gyro ball and electro ball until the next turn. What I changed it to is true because it does not imply that. How can they say the same thing if one is false and the other is true? Would it be better if it said, "An in-battle change to a Pokémon's Speed stat will not start affecting turn order until the following turn, but otherwise takes effect immediately"? sumwun (talk) 18:49, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
If I might butt in here, if what Sumwun is saying is true (I've not seen any information whether it is or not), then there 'is' a difference between the two, and I think Sumwun's edit should be reinstated. Speed has effect on more things than just turn order, and some might react to changes sooner than others. --Felthry (talk) 18:00, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Why would you assume the sentence is talking about Gyro Ball or Electro Ball? It clearly isn't. It's talking about when a Pokémon's speed gets changed due to a stat change, it won't take affect until the following turn. Gyro Ball and Electro Ball are not moves that affect the user's speed, but rely on it, it's not going to get affected by a stat changing move.--ForceFire 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Before commenting on the first 2 sentences of that comment, I just wanted to tell you that the last 2 sentences are false. I will admit that Showdown! is the most reliable battle simulator available to me, and I'm sorry if that's not reliable enough. sumwun (talk) 06:51, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
"Simulator", hence why it isn't reliable. You can change things with a simulator.--ForceFire 07:17, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
The replay was done in "Anything Goes", a standard format that does not change any battle mechanics. Do you still not trust it? sumwun (talk) 16:38, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
No.--ForceFire 16:40, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
If not a Showdown! replay, what can convince you that changes in speed can take effect immediately? sumwun (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Gyro Ball and Electro Ball both depend on the user's speed, right? So why would you expect that changes to the user's speed wouldn't affect those moves? Regardless of whether it "clearly isn't" talking about them as you personally see it, it's better to be precise than to rely on implicit statements. --Felthry (talk) 23:38, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

New Devolution

Hello Force Fire, I am a foreigner and reader on the Bulbapedia site. I only created an account in order to discuss a possible Pokémon capable of performing a Devolution, I mean Silvally (Type: Full).

Since originally this was his original form, however, he involuted to Type: Null after Faba added a helmet to his face, slowing him down. He will only be Silvally again when he destroys the helmet, that is, if it is valid I would like some moderator on the site to add this Pokémon to the article Devolution. NanayaShiki07 (talk) 20:07, 10 November 2018 (~)

Games=/=anime. I personally don't think it counts as anything. I also don't really care, mainly because the whole story behind Silvally and Type: Null, and how the latter is just the former with a helmet. It just unnecessarily makes things confusing and messes the whole concept of evolution in the franchise. So I don't have any strong opinions about this.--ForceFire 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

N as a rival

Don't put a message that says "Please do not add N, as he is not a rival" on the page, If you have an argument against it then put it in the talk page! Nightfall217 (talk) 23:48, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

As an administrator I can place a hidden message telling users what not to do until a consensus has been made.--ForceFire 05:48, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Leaf Discussion Page

I noticed you left a note on my userpage telling me not to delete other people's comments. I want to assure you that I have not done so, and in fact had my comments removed twice by other people when they re-formatted the page. --LavaringX (talk) 07:16, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Spaceworld Mainspace

Hello, I was wondering if we could start slowly mainspacing some Pokémon Gold and Silver beta information, as the leaked Spaceworld ROM has been around for nearly a half a year now. A lot of the interest for adding this information onto the site has slowed down, and I thought that perhaps if only a little bit of information was added, like, for example, a list of Pokémon, one or two Pokémon articles, or some information on the gameplay, then maybe it would spur interest and additions to the wiki. --Celadonkey 16:39, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Spaceworld stuff shouldn't be the priority right now, clearly. The staff still hasn't decided on how to handle this. Please don't think you can just move them without permission.--ForceFire 16:57, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
I wasn't going to move it without permission, that's why I asked you. And alright. Please let me know when staff has reached a decision because this is something I am very interested in helping out with --Celadonkey 17:02, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

I want to turn a redirect into an article for something else, but I don't have the writing skills.

I asked Chosen 5 days ago, but he never responded. I asked Glik earlier today, but unfortunately he doesn't play the game and couldn't help.

Anyway, there's a substance called R in the game Detective Pikachu, and it's a big part of the game's story. When I went to search its article, it redirects me to the Trainer Tower instead. I am definitely not able to write the article myself (I sucked at Language Arts), but I also don't want to leave the page as this redirect. What can I do? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 01:24, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Write a stub or incomplete article? sumwun (talk) 02:33, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
You already created a userpage it seems. You can invite others to help flesh out the article. Sadly, I've never played Detective Pikachu, so I wouldn't know much.--ForceFire 05:58, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Well I did ask Abcboy, as he added the plot into the game's article. Hopefully he responds. *checks edit history* Maybe I'll ask GrammarFreak01 too. Thanks for the advice. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 16:29, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Sea Cottage and Trophy Garden

Hi there. You recently removed information relating to the Bill's Secret Garden rumour without engaging in discussion first, as I had explicitly requested on the talk pages for those articles. I have provided four different articles regarding Bill's Secret Garden and it's mentioned on numerous fansites, so I'm not sure what further evidence you require. It's an extremely notorious rumour. --Poppy :3 13:43, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I was in the midst of responding on those talk pages whilst you wrote this.--ForceFire 13:54, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Commenting 20 minutes after the removals isn't exactly a discussion. --Poppy :3 13:57, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Now that you have hopefully had some time to cool off, can I get you to re-appraise your behaviour? Condescending comments like "learn some patience" and referring to seeking a second opinion as "spamming" staff members do not convey respect to others, and I would appreciate it if you would apologise for these comments. Additionally, I would appreciate if you would acknowledge wrong-doing in burying the list of discussion materials I provided to show the scope of the Secret Garden rumour. Whilst you claim that you were trying to figure out how to add a collapsible section, I am genuinely unsure how I would be expected to intent for something you would not do for another hour. I'd like to encourage you to be more transparent: throughout our interactions yesterday you have seemed to think that I should know what you are doing when you provided no explanation for your actions.

I'd also like you to acknowledge that jumped the gun in issuing a warning, since you started reverting pages without offering discussion, and I have been actively trying to discuss the issues raised and establish consensus with other users. (For the record, your lone opinion isn't a consensus.) Please consider the effect that such actions will have upon others; if you disregard the views of regular users, that will have a chilling effect upon editing activity. Nobody wants to have their edits reverted immediately and then be insulted by admins, and treating people that way puts them off editing.

For the record, this isn't the first time you've been insulting towards me: [9] That was a long time ago, but it's kind of telling that you didn't actually apologise. Perhaps we can try a different resolution this time, where you apologise for your behaviour? --Poppy 11:34, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

I actually just looked through the edit chain associated with that post, and it's interesting how similar your behaviour is to that of 8 years ago: edit warring whilst insisting your opinion is correct without engaging with others who are telling you that you're wrong. It would probably be a good idea to learn to be more open to the views of others, and apologise more readily when you step on people's toes. Without resolution, bruised feelings fester into resentment, which can result in long-standing feuds. It's so much easier to just apologise and let things drop. --Poppy 11:39, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
Wanting a second opinion is fine, but going to three different staff member's talk page is too much. It comes off as you being impatient and needy. A staff member will take notice of the Sea Cottage talk page at some point and weigh in. You don't need to go to every (not literally) staff member's talk page.
I "buried" it because the talk page was going to be too long, if anyone wants to see the source, they can expand it. Readability should be taken into account here. Having to go through a wall of links just to get to the newest comment is rather inconvenient. As for me taking an "hour" to add the expandable code, I didn't remember it. The expandable tag isn't something I've toyed around with much, the last time I did anything with it was probably with my userpage infobox.
You also do not know how I edit the wiki. I don't just have one tab open, I have multiple tabs open, and they are usually reversions I pick out from the recent changes. I check those reversion and then go back to whatever it is that needs attention. Hence why it took 20 minutes to respond to the Sea Cottage talk page or one hour to figure out how to make the list expandable.
As I mentioned on your talk page, you did edit war. You added back information that was reverted. I admit I got the timeline wrong since your edit war with Finnish was on the Trophy Garden page and your edit war with me was on the Sea Cottage page, but it still doesn't change the fact that you chose to revert both of us rather than go to our talk pages. And I was editing the Sea Cottage talk page when you reverted my edit, which by the way I had on a different tab and refreshed after a few minutes just in case you added it back again which you did taking more time. And I usually do that when I undo a reversion, because there have been many times in the past where a user just adds back information that was removed.
Now, I'm not saying that you should know how I operate, because I don't usually go around revealing how I edit the wiki, but understand that just because I take a while to respond doesn't mean I'm ignoring you or stalling. I multitask. And that takes while, especially when I want to get through the thing that don't take a long time to do (i.e. check reversions) out of the way first.
As for the past. The past is the past. It's history. Don't cling too much on that. And looking back, yes I was wrong, but I already said my reasons why I made the edit. Sure, I didn't apologize properly, but that's already 8 years too late. Things should just be let go.--ForceFire 12:09, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

TM and Movesets Table for Let's Go

Hiya. Could you help update Template:TMtable to accommodate for the multiple Gen 7 TMs and Template:Learnlist/levelVII for LGPE movesets? Thanks! Lanthanum (talk) 11:01, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Late reply. I could tweak the TMtable, if I'm able to. As for the learnlist, staff are currently discussing ways to deal with it (whether to make a spearate table specifically for Lets Go since only Gen I Pokemon would need it, or merge it with SMUSUM).--ForceFire 16:11, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
I think Let's Go is special case and should be split. While consistency is "sacrificed", Let's Go is really different from the other main series games, and the TM table being completely different alone make merging them really confusing. I think this game is an exception we could make - it's best we add the info in as soon as possible first. Revision is still possible of course. Lanthanum (talk) 23:31, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Update: The learnset table is it to be separated, Spriteit is planning on doing the learnsets from tomorrow (his time), so discuss with him if you plan on adding learnsets. As for the TMtable, a overhaul of the TM pages to be like the item pages has been brought up (and someone has a mock up on their userpage), so it (the template) will have to be put on hold for now.--ForceFire 12:22, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
Proposed TM01 userpage by Chosen.--ForceFire 09:36, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Marc Thompson M21

Sent you an email containing a screenshot of Marc Thompson's email reply to who he voices in M21 for your approval.--BigDocFan (talk) 17:59, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

That's fine by me.--ForceFire 09:36, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Berry Template update

With revising the TM template and the introduction of new berry varieties, I think its time the Berry pages and templates could use some updating. Here are some things I think we can have changed/included:

  • Adding buy and sell value for berries
  • Removing descriptions/flavor text from infobox (to make it less cluttered) and placing it in the page ala Items (so we don't have to keep using the sup/ template)
  • Revising the locations box to incorporate the gameabbrev template for less words ala Items
  • A new Varieties section so we can place stuff like Golden Razz and Nanab there, with subsequent GO and Let's Go info

On an unrelated note, I've created new split Fossil pages on my userspace that I think would make the info more consistent with the current direction of templates and thus easier to read. I hope you check 'em out as well. Lanthanum (talk) 21:05, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

I also agree that the Berry template needs work, and I think that there are some userpages floating around with updated versions of the template. However, rather than a completely new template, I think the format used on the updated item pages (such as Potion) would be much simpler/better (since Berries are items as well). With this, the Effect and Bag/tag descriptions can be moved out from the infobox, making it less cluttered, but keeping the rest there instead. I also prefer the Locations template used on the general item pages, over the Berry locations template. --Wowy(토크) 23:12, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
SnorlaxMonster has suggested an overhaul of the berry articles.--ForceFire 04:35, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
That looks great! Is there anything that needs to be done that's preventing this from pushing through? Lanthanum (talk) 05:06, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Viren English VA

Sent you a screenshot of an email from Lisa Ortiz for your approval regarding Viren's English voice--BigDocFan (talk) 22:29, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

That's good to go.--ForceFire 04:23, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Wakana Kingyo

Was wondering if User:BigDocFan/Wakana Kingyo warrants being mainspaced?--BigDocFan (talk) 12:37, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

She fits the first criteria, so it's fine to be mainspaced.--ForceFire 12:41, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

An Apology

I just noticed that you protected the TMtable Template. I had noticed that the TMs for Pikachu & Eevee weren't listed yet and I just wanted to make sure that the information for the games were listed on the TM pages. I just want apologize if I shouldn't have edited the template. Sinjoh (talk) 22:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)


I wish to report Harrychips8 for making pointless edits to pages that involve events that didn't happen.--BigDocFan (talk) 22:12, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Something I discovered in Wikipedia regarding documentation best practices for protected templates

Hello Mr. Admin,

I was reading Wikipedia:Protection policy#Protection of templates and found out they have some sort of hybrid practice merging template protection with unprotected documentation. Wikipedia uses a meta-template called {{documentation}} that allows a template to have documentation transcluded from a "/doc" subpage, rather than written in the template page itself. This would allow a template to be fully protected (so that only admins can edit it during server maintenance) while still having an unprotected documentation subpage that almost anyone can edit as needed (without having to edit the template page itself).

I do not know if Bulbapedia has the {{documentation}} meta-template programmed in its software, but if it had, it would be a great improvement over the current situation where:

  • sometimes one cannot supply documentation to a template page because it is protected (for obvious reasons)
  • one supplies documentation to an unprotected template but also inadvertently edits the template itself (by editing outside the designated <noinclude> area), potentially resulting in server stress if the template happens to be a very popular one among users (yes, I know, I had done that twice until you scolded me in my talk page, sorry about that)

Incorporating {{documentation}} into Bulbapedia could allow high-traffic templates to remain protected while allowing autoconfirmed users like me to freely provide usage documentation to them by creating or editing the appropriate, unprotected "/doc" subpages and letting {{documentation}} automatically transclude the guides into the protected template pages. This is Wikipedia’s current best practice, and it should be Bulbapedia’s best practice too. BTW, WikiDex, the Spanish arm of Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis, has a similarly-named meta-template, {{uso de plantilla}}, that does basically the same thing.

This could be done next time Bulbapedia needs to undergo server maintenance or software update (or any other reason that would temporarily require the server to go offline, hopefully not because of a reckless editor).


--SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446) (talk) 06:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Anyone can freely make a documentation on the talk page if they wanted to, no need for a separate thing. We do have separate documentation pages for the bigger templates, they're mostly on project pages or the manual of style. For smaller ones like user tags, having it on the tag page itself or its talk page is fine. Though I wouldn't mind an article that documents usertag usage, might create it in my userspace at some point.--ForceFire 07:32, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Bewear Rescues

Although I created this page for fun, I was wondering if User:BigDocFan/Bewear Rescues might become a mainspace article similar to Clemont's inventions?--BigDocFan (talk) 15:05, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

I thinks that's fine for an article, since we do have similar pages. Do ask for second opinions, though.

Sk8erPrince's edit warring

Hello, it seems Sk8erPrince doesn't quite want to heed your message and once again reverted a user who had reverted him in this article, also causing Singaporean to engage. They're also both using the summary as a means to communicate about matters not concerning content of article itself. I don't know whether or not this warrants an admin's action, but just wanted to notify you in case it does. Kikugi (talk) 12:26, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

If they continue or edit war on another article, then I'll give them a word. They seem to have stopped now.--ForceFire 07:32, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

If underleveled trivia is not notable...

...then why is it about Lance's Dragonite ? Why do I see trivias about his Dragonite being underleveled under Lv.55 ? -- Braviapert 12:14, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

If you see similar trivia, remove it.--ForceFire 12:46, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Why remove it ? It has been there since I don't know how long, and it just has to be removed now ? -- Braviapert 13:11, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Because it's not notable. That trivia may have been overlooked or added back before trivia notability became so strict.--ForceFire 13:39, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


Was wondering if you could comment on User:BigDocFan/Pikipek Line (anime) looks in regards to it being mainspaced?--BigDocFan (talk) 11:55, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

I've also been working on several anime related pages, hoping that they could be mainspaced. All the links are on my user page. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. PardescanSlowbro (talk) 08:52, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
I think the "Pikipek line" article should be renamed something else, feels a little clumsy of a title and Rowlet isn't a Pikipek. Pardescan, I'll look through your userpages at some point, there's quite a bit to look through.--ForceFire 12:10, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Any suggestions on a better name? Rowlet's Foster Family perhaps?--BigDocFan (talk) 12:18, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you ForceFire. As for you BigDocFan, perhaps the page could be called "Toucannon's flock {anime}" because Toucannon is the leader.PardescanSlowbro (talk) 23:16, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion PardescanSlowbro, certainly sounds better than my own two suggestions--BigDocFan (talk) 10:11, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent)After looking through the articles, this is what I think is and isn't notable (note, this DOES NOT mean that you can move the notable ones into the mainspace. Repeat, DOES NOT mean you can move the notable ones into the mainspace).

User:PardescanSlowbro/Deoxys (anime)
User:PardescanSlowbro/Malamar (anime)
User:PardescanSlowbro/Light trio (anime)
Not notable:
User:PardescanSlowbro/Loudred (anime) <-- this is a definite NO
User:PardescanSlowbro/Lugia (anime)
User:PardescanSlowbro/Spoink (anime) <-- this is a definite NO
User:PardescanSlowbro/Suicune (anime)
User:PardescanSlowbro/Weather trio (anime)
User:PardescanSlowbro/Wynaut (anime)
User:PardescanSlowbro/Groudon (anime) <-- this is a definite NO
User:PardescanSlowbro/Hippopotas (anime) <-- this is a definite NO
User:PardescanSlowbro/Kyogre (anime) <-- this is a definite NO

Again, does NOT mean you can move the notable ones into the mainspace, please wait until you get the all clear. Regarding ultra Beasts, a collective "Ultra Beasts (anime)" has been suggested, if you want to start on that in your userspace, feel free.--ForceFire 06:46, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the update, and duly noted, I'll wait for an administrator to move the selected pages into the mainspace. For those marked not notable, I'm guessing it is their infrequent appearances and minimal impact on an episodes plot? I can at least use the information to update the Recurring wild Pokémon in the anime page. I'd be more than happy to start working on an "Ultra Beasts (anime)" page on my userspace. Thank you again. PardescanSlowbro (talk) 07:54, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
I noticed BigDocFan already started on an Ultra Beasts (anime) page a while back, which can be found here. It currently only contains Nihilego, but it might be handier to just work from one page. ☼ BlazingFist ☼ 15:07, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Its currently a work in progress page that I'm hoping other members will be kind to help, already mentioned it to PardescanSlowbro--BigDocFan (talk) 15:17, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

(resetting indent)The ones I've marked as unnotable is because they didn't do much and their articles are very, very short. If everything they've done can be summed up in one paragraph, then they're not notable. Quality over quantity.--ForceFire 03:46, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Okay. I've since added the information from the pages marked as not notable, except for the Weather trio anime page, on to the recurring wild Pokémon in the anime page. As for the Lugia (anime) page, given that it also appeared in the manga, like Silver, would that change its status to notable? And because the Weather trio (anime) page is actually about three characters, would that warrant it having its own page?PardescanSlowbro (talk) 03:32, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Who's That Pokémon Narration

The episode focuses on Ash, Sophocles, and Lillie. Therefore they should be narrating the Who's That Pokémon segment in shrunken voices. From, Sean 01:29, 18 December 2018 (UTC) - unsigned comment from PokéSean (talkcontribs)

Who knows. But it's definitely not an error.--ForceFire 06:47, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

I have a theory that the person who is the main focus gets to narrate WTPKN since the SM series. Kiawe, Lana, and Mallow did find the others so they are the main focus. Maybe Ash, Lillie, and Sophocles did narrate in shrunken voices but it was hard to hear. SM078 probably just focus on the Ultra Guardians. From, Sean 01:07, 19 December 2018 (UTC) - unsigned comment from PokéSean (talkcontribs)

That's speculation. It's simply not an error.--ForceFire 05:40, 19 December 2018 (UTC)


Hey! I just wanted to alert you to the presence of two vandals: Redrockboy (talk · contribs) and Fireball52 (talk · contribs). GrammarFreak01 (talk) 19:31, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

The latter has been dealt with. The former I'll leave alone, since they haven't made any other edits.--ForceFire 03:45, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Okay, thank you. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 02:47, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Templates for superscripted † and ‡

I recently created templates for superscripted daggers † and ‡: Template:†, Template:††, and Template:‡. Since these two characters are almost always used in Bulbapedia in superscript form <sup>†</sup> <sup>††</sup> <sup>‡</sup> (and each instance takes 14 to 17 bytes in UTF-8), there is enough rationale for creating the templates, whose transclusions {{†}} {{††}} {{‡}} take up only 7 to 10 bytes each. Replacing every instance of <sup>†</sup> <sup>††</sup> <sup>‡</sup> with {{†}} {{††}} {{‡}} in the articles would result in shorter coding (desirable since shorter coding results in fewer bytes being eaten up from the server’s hard disks) and speedier page loading.

The only question remaining would be how to categorize such templates before applying the protection tag to them (given that they will be heavily used, and given that they don’t need any documentation since they take no arguments, template protection is heavily warranted). --SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446) (talk) 06:07, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

And I see you deleted them. Why? Didn’t you get the benefits of typing less code through templates? Isn’t that the purpose of templates? Rather than typing <sup>†</sup> <sup>††</sup> <sup>‡</sup> in the code which wastes a lot of bytes, I would prefer typing {{†}} {{††}} {{‡}} for the same purpose (saving a lot of bytes). --SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446) (talk) 06:10, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

As I said on your talk page, there's no need for those as they're already on the character palette below the edit box. Also, the amount of bytes it takes up is miniscule compared to other bigger templates, it's not that big of a deal.--ForceFire 06:13, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
FYI, I don’t use the character palette, I just type their Alt+ codes instead (much easier for me and other keyboard-shortcut-savvy users, and no, I don’t plan to create a usertag for keyboard-savvy users, I would rather spend my energies on other more useful things). --SilSinn (Pokémon Sun TID: 768426; Pokémon Ultra Moon TID: 123446) (talk) 06:18, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

How do I let other users edit a subpage in my userspace?

I had recently started drafting an article page, User:SilSinn9801/List of common phrases from fortune-teller tents (Festival Plaza) in other languages, in my userspace. Even though it resides in my userspace, I want to let other users make improvements to it (it does indeed need improvements, like changing colors and splitting the whole table into seven tables according to the fortune-teller tents providing such common phrases).

How do I let other users edit this subpage, until I deem it worthy of being moved into the mainspace? --SilSinn (TIDs: 768426S, 123446UM) (talk) 06:52, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

You can simply let other users know about it on their talk pages, and they will edit them if they want to. Regarding the last bit you said, that's not your call to make. A staff member will deem it notable and worthy to move to the mainspace.--ForceFire 02:40, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

More Mainspace

Was wondering if you could confirm if User:BigDocFan/Ben Phillips and User:Super10ZX/Rosie Reyes were notable enough and ready to be mainspaced?--BigDocFan (talk) 08:45, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

I'd like you to look at the notability requirements listed here and judge for yourself (fwiw, they're both notable according to the requirements). I'd like to think that you would be more confident in figuring out what's notable and what isn't with your experience.--ForceFire 04:52, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
I think my problem is a lack of confidence, hence my checking with admin if they are notable enough or not. Went to do Rosie Reyes but got You do not have permission to move this page, for the following reason:

A page of that name already exists, or the name you have chosen is not valid. Please choose another name.--BigDocFan (talk) 21:50, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Ah, yeah the redirect exists. I've moved the article since it requires deleting the existing one. While you should always ask an admin about moving an article, my concern was more on wanting you to feel more confident in knowing what is notable considering that you've been here for a while.--ForceFire 03:22, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Decided to take the initiative and went to mainspace User:BigDocFan/Vic Mignogna but encountered the same problem when I went to do Rosie Reyes--BigDocFan (talk) 19:08, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Done.--ForceFire 03:09, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Another vandal

We've got another vandal on our hands: GusMccarter3 (talk · contribs). GrammarFreak01 (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2018 (UTC)


should safari balls be listed under the items section. --EternalDragonX (talk) 21:55, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Trying to hide rejected table in a talk page via wikicode

I am trying to hide (via wikicode) a rejected prototype Fashion items table in Talk:Fashion item#USUM fashion items but cannot seem to get it to hide by default. On Wikipedia, I can do so by putting whatever I want to hide inside a table with class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed", but that does not seem to work here on Bulbapedia. I tried using class="expandable" (as per your Infobox template), but again I don’t get to hide the table by default. Any help on doing this? --SilSinn (TIDs: 768426S, 123446UM) (talk) 19:37, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

If it's not needed, then just remove it. Why hide it? Also, please don't clog up the talk page with not one but two giant templates. Place them on a userpage instead and link to it. Having it on the talk page just takes up way too much space.--ForceFire 04:52, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
The only reason I put two or three sample tables on that talk page was to illustrate the proposed changes, because I don’t think Tiddlywinks takes his/her time to inspect other people’s user subpages, even if I put a link to such a subpage. But well, I see you removed them altogether. I think it would have been better to keep the tables, but with fewer item rows (only to illustrate the changed header and footer with one or two representative item rows rather than the whole rowset).
As for the rejected table (which I wanted to either hide or remove): now that it was fully removed, I want to formally request the deletion of these four now-unneeded draft templates used only for that rejected table (I have no use for them, but I have no credentials for deleting pages):
--SilSinn (TIDs: 768426S, 123446UM) (talk) 05:21, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
They were just simply too big, hence why I decided to just outright remove them. TiddlyWinks, or any other staff member, will click on the link to check the template out, no need to worry about it being ignored. I've deleted the userpages as well.--ForceFire 05:39, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
Thankee for the deletions! As a side question: why isn’t a user allowed to delete his/her own user subpages on his/her own? --SilSinn (TIDs: 768426S, 123446UM) (talk) 05:42, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
Deletion powers are things only staff has. If users were given the option to delete userpages, then a user could delete someone else's userpage out of spite.--ForceFire 06:01, 28 December 2018 (UTC)


Look, all I'm saying is that Cyndaquil is literally called the "Fire Mouse Pokémon." The GAME CREATORS THEMSELVES literally said this thing is a mouse. - unsigned comment from Swil Phift (talkcontribs)

I know where you're getting at. But the fact of the matter is, Cyndaquill looks nothing like a mouse. It's category means nothing. --ForceFire 03:25, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

By that logic, Pikachu isn't a mouse either, considering that, like Cyndaquil, its resemblance to a mouse is also very vague. Swil Phift (talk) 03:28, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Ears, long tail, name being based off the onomatopoeia of a mouse squeaking, also we've got official confirmation that it is based on a mouse. Pikachu has more going for it in the mouse department than Cyndaquil.--ForceFire 03:43, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Hiker Trio

Was wondering the recurring hikers from sun and moon are worthy of receiving their own character page, have created one for mainspacing if they are--BigDocFan (talk) 16:41, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Since they've only done something major in one of their two episodes, I'd say wait until any future appearances and see how much they impact the plot.--ForceFire 03:09, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Fair enough--BigDocFan (talk) 10:00, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Master Trainer references

I highly doubt those references are just coincidences. It'd be very unlikely for those naming patterns to occur at random. What's wrong with mentioning them on that page? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:10, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

What do those Simpsons characters have to do with bird keeping or birds? What does Gamer Grumps have to do with ghosts? What does Cubone and Marowak have to do with Castlevania? Just having names that are the same isn't enough. Otherwise it's speculation to say that they are clear cut references (especially the Gamer Grumps one, like really?). This also extends to the Sesame street trivia on Route 19, what does Elmo have to do with swimming, or Bert and Ernie with bird keeping? We can't have trivia stating that things are references solely because of their names. Otherwise we'd have users going around saying a certain group of trainers on a route is a reference to some obscure tv show.--ForceFire 10:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
You're failing to see the point. It's not always about the Trainer classes or their Pokémon, but that they have something in common: All the Simpsons references are Bird Keepers. All the Gastly line Trainers are Psychics (and are all found in the same location), plus the Game Grumps have a history with Gengar. It's a reference if the characters share a Trainer class and/or area they're found in. I hope you understood my point. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 12:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
The only thing they have in common are the names. Anyone can pick out random group of trainers and say that they are a reference to some obscure show that no one knows. What do the Simpson characters have to do with bird keeping? Neither of those characters do anything remotely related to birds. It's a coincidence if they share a trainer class and are found in the same area, it also has nothing to do with what they are allegedly referring to.--ForceFire 12:26, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
That's what I keep trying to tell you. The Trainer classes aren't supposed to represent what these characters are in their respective shows. They're only meant to make groups out of them and make the reference work. And in case of the HG/SS Sesame Street reference, the fact that all the Trainers with the reference names are in the same area serves the same purpose. Do we need some other admin to give their opinion on the matter to solve this debate? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 14:45, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Then it's a coincidence, not a reference.--ForceFire 14:56, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Honestly? You consider naming multiple characters from a single show/whatever in a single class or area a coincidence? I consider this a rare case of me being disappointed by your judgment. I'm not giving up on this. It indeed seems like we'll need the opinion of another admin to settle this. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 15:51, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
If we allow references based off a group of trainers that just so happens to share the same name as characters in a tv show, then other users will try to say another group of trainers share the same name as some characters from some obscure tv show. That's what I'm trying to prevent by being hard on this. I don't think just having the same name and being in one area is solid enough, it's flimsy and most likely coincidental.--ForceFire 16:10, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Yet another vandal

Blankrealmz (talk · contribs) is running rampant on the Shinx article. Just so you know. GrammarFreak01 (talk) 05:19, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Dealt with.--ForceFire 05:51, 1 January 2019 (UTC)