Difference between revisions of "User talk:Force Fire"

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Would it be a good idea to hide the two latest revisions from Inkster on this article, since the vandalism is still present and visible there? [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 18:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Would it be a good idea to hide the two latest revisions from Inkster on this article, since the vandalism is still present and visible there? [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 18:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
:Oh and it's visible in your last revision too. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 18:17, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
:Oh and it's visible in your last revision too. [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 18:17, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
::Looks like Inkster didn't remove all of the vandal's edit in their undo edit, so my rollback of the vandal only removed what Inkster removed. I've hidden all the edits.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 05:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
== Volcanion ==
== Volcanion ==
Did you intend to make Volcanion's species page only editable by administrators? [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 05:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
Did you intend to make Volcanion's species page only editable by administrators? [[User:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><font color="F34134">'''Land'''</font>]][[User talk:Landfish7|<span style="font-family:Tahoma"><small><font color="8334B7">'''fish7'''</font></small></span></span>]] 05:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
:Oh... um... oops. Fixed.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#44BAE5">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#85D2EE">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#DA7D99">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#E7ABBD">ire</span>]] 05:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Revision as of 05:38, 24 June 2022

Archive One Archive Two Archive Three
Archive Four Archive Five Archive Six
Archive Seven Archive Eight Archive Nine
Archive Ten Archive Eleven Archive Twelve


Hi! Where could I submit suggestions for the editorial board to consider? I've just finished completing the learnsets for every move in LA and with that I'd like to drastically overhaul/simplify how the move learnset templates look. It'd be a lot of work, but there is plenty of time until the next games. I already discussed the matter with User:SnorlaxMonster who broadly supported it, so I'd like to start the official process of having my suggestions evaluated/fine-tuned/accepted. You can find everything you need to know in my sandbox.

Another suggestion would be using galleries when we list the confirmed Pokémon an artist has designed. This seems pretty straight-forward to me, I hope I don't need to list reasons as to why. It would really help people understand and appreciate the artists more.

Oneofthosedf (talk) 20:50, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Could I at least get an answer? Or could you redirect me to a person who can help me with the process?
Oneofthosedf (talk) (contribs) 15:52, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
Apologies for the late response. I'll briefly go over your points. Point 1 and 4 seem to go hand in hand, I wouldn't mind using the sugimori artwork in favor of the menusprites for single image templates. Using them for a list makes the template look larger than it needs to be, so menusprites (being smaller) works better imo. As for the types, the older ones are preferred because the text is larger than those on the newer symbols. The new symbol may look nicer but it doesn't help those unaware of what those smbol represents.
For points 2 and 3, Maahirmomtaz is in the wrong here. I have no idea why they are making those edits and someone should ask them why on their talk page. If they doesn't respond, then staff can make them respond. Using the sup template for game specific moves is indeed how we do things. Though I do agree that it has recently gotten ridiculous, and your templates are indeed a better way of showing them. I don't think having both games and generations in one header would be confusing, as long as the reader understands the purpose of such layout.
For point 5, I'm 50/50 on it. I think they should be separated for being completely different learning methods, but I can understand merging them to save space.
As for the galleries, eh. We don't do that for voice actor articles, so I don't think it's worth doing it for the designer articles. Just bloats the article up, imo.--ForceFire 07:29, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the response. I hope I didn't come off as arrogant, but I'm just used to sending a reminder to offices IRL. There was no frustration behind it.
The two points that I care about most are #3 and #5, the ones that would require the most work and the ones that are most needed. I'll address all of them one by one briefly.
1: I just think the different line heights look pretty jarring. Consistency is always the best, and considering we can fix all the templates that use menusprites this easily, it should be done. I do dislike that all of them need to be 68x68, but that's life. Nothing we can do about that (unless of course we move away from pixel art, which gives us endless sclability options).
2&3: I think they noticed the situation getting ridiculous as well. If my suggestions are accepted, we would only need to use the superscripts for the few forms and new Pokémon that were introduced in Pt, B2W2, ORAS and USUM. I trust the reader will understand it. But we can always leave a note in the footer explaining that Gen VII and Gen VIII needed to be broken up.
4: I think the era of menusprites is over. We'll inevitably get confirmation in a few months when the SV trailers start to showcase some gameplay. But neither BDSP nor LA uses them anymore. I think it's done. Consistency is always the best move, and a core quality of Bulbapedia. I love the spritework personally, but they don't look as good on the Switch as they do on Bulbapedia. We can't keep using menusprites and the LA headshots with whatever SV will introduce, then a possible fourth artstyle by the end of 2023. I understand the issue with the Sugimori artworks taking up too much place, but technically they wouldn't. There would be just less white spaces. I pray for a game where every Pokémon is available again (mainly for this reason), but until then the Sugimori artworks are the only thing every Pokémon has (Eiscue forms and Galarian Zen Darmanitan don't need to be incldued, thankfully). I also don't think they look bad, I can try making a longer list with 100+ Pokémon if that's something you think would be more convincing.
4: As for the type bars, I'm not sure that I understand your complaint. I don't see why we'd need to use the ones from 2006. AFAIK the Fairy type bars are fan-made. My sandbox displays the version with the type names. They are perfectly legible, and the symbols aren't too small either. The colors broadly fit the colors Bulbapedia uses as well. We should move away from pixel art, because monitors with higher resolutions don't accommodate them too well. I need to zoom out a whole lot for them to look crisp. Ironically the type bars I am using are now obsolete as well, BDSP, LA and SV use a new version, so I shall implement those (though I'd need permission to remove the dead space around them).
5: This is partly about future-proofing, partly about reducing bloat, and partly about displaying information as neatly as possible. I am certain we will get new learning/tutoring methods later down the line, and we don't need another section for Giga Drain with 300+ entries that contains the same information. It also addressed the issue with moves that keep going for TMs to tutors to TRs, then back to tutors, etc. I don't think it would be confusing at all.
Galleries: I wouldn't want them to be used on voice actor pages either, utterly useless IMO. I think there is a stronger argument for displaying artworks on the pages of the designers. A list just feels lifeless, while a gallery feels respectful to the artists, and helps users understand their design philosophy.
I want to get as much input from experienced users as possible. I really want these changes to accommodate everyone, since I think this is the way going forward and something no other big sites have. How should I go about gaining supporters for this? I refrained from writing individual community members as I feel that constitutes as spam. Oneofthosedf (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Your posts doesn't seem arrogant or confrontational at all. I can understand wanting to bump a discussion when an admin doesn't respond to it. If you want to reach out to more users but not spam multiple talk pages, you can always use the Editor's hub talk page. Though going to a staff member works just as well, as they will most likely relay the message onto the other staff members in the staff discord.
1: Nothing we can do if the images are of varying sizes. We can't expand the smallest menusprite to be the same size as the largest menusprite.
2/3: Seems we are in agreement on this. I don't mind separate columns within a generation for separate games.
4: I was actually under the impression that the artwork would make the other cells have more whitespace than needed as opposed to menusprites, but checking now, doesn't seem to be the case. Probably is more ideal looking comparing the two again.
4: As for the types, (if I remember correctly) that was what was mentioned as the reason for using the older type images in a staff chat. The text would appear too small in the size we would have them, as opposed to the older images where the text were essentially the image. It's probably fine for mobile, but not so much for desktop.
5: Yeah, not entirely against reducing repeated information, so I won't be bother if we do decide to merge them together.
Galleries: That's understandable. I think having the images be smaller would change my mind, just having them how it is on your page makes it seem cluttered.
And just a couple points about your templates: I think leaving the tutor/tm/tr row white works best to avoid color clashes (using EP for IoA may or may not be confused with CT, unless there's not much of a difference in movesets), and leaving out games where the move isn't coded in makes sense (though I think a note in the footnote might be best to avoid confused users asking questions).--ForceFire 14:53, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
1: I was thinking about what we have on the Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl page. The version-exclusive list already uses the Moveevtrytm template, so we'd only need to change the headers (I think). The images are not altered, only centered. I am not exactly sure which part of the code makes them appear this way, but you can't deny that it looks more cohesive.
4: Here is an image (https://imgur.com/n0czury) I want you to look at. I use 2560x1440 monitors and at default zoom, everything on Bulbapedia appears to me as it does in the bottom row. Amazing for artworks. So much detail. Terrible for spritework, unfortunately. In order to enjoy them, I need to use 80% zoom (the standard for smaller resolutions), which makes everything tiny. You can also compare the readability of the type bars on the image. Exact same font height. I think one can read both just fine. By completely getting rid of spritework, we now have a zoom-proof wiki. People who are hard of seeing can now freely zoom in without the fear of blurry pixelart. So my proposal actually accommodates readability, if you think about it. It also shows that we don't need to stick with 68px, we can go smaller, if we want to further reduce scrolling. Or we can use 70px on move pages, but go with 50px for the headers on Pokémon pages. Endless possibilities. It would need some manual work, since the naming conventions for menusprites and Sugimori artwork are different, but that's part of future-proofing.
Galleries: Okay, I'll make some variations. I just used the default Bulbapedia gallery, I'm fine with scaling down.
IoA is unfortunately completely unreadable on a white background, and since it's neither a game, neither a separate DLC, using the EP superscript is more accurate. We don't list the tutor locations on the move pages (not in this case), so it doesn't matter whether it's obvious that the tutors are available on the IoA or the CT. Anyone who has access to one of them, automatically can access the other. Oneofthosedf (talk) (contribs) 15:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
1:The way it's done on the bdsp article is indeed good, that's because the moveentry template has the image align-centered and at a height of 70px. I should note that I'm under the impression that the problem here is the size discrepancy between menusprites, hence "Nothing we can do if the images are of varying sizes." The LA menusprites, on the other hand, would lean me towards using sugimori art due to them being way different than the usual menusprites.
4:Seems you're using a slightly bigger screen that me. But still, for me at least, menusprites or sugimori artwork still look completely fine regardless of 80% or 100% scale. But I am leaning towards sugimori art. As for type images, I still stand by using the older ones. Same as the menusprite vs artwork, I personally can see both just fine regardless of scale, but the text of the newer images being slightly squished to make way for the symbol wuld make it slightly harder to read.
Galleries: They look fine now. TRG didn't really need to add examples of other designers, just one example is fine. If you are fine with the approval of one admin, you can go ahead and add the galleries.
Fair enough, I don't have much else to say about the templates design wise, so they're fine by me.--ForceFire 06:45, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, my next post will be on the Editor's Hub. I am 100% on the side of using Sugimori, so I'm happy with your replies. My original idea for the type bars was just to use the highlighted texts we use everywhere else on Bulbapedia. I don't know if their implementation is feasible, but I'll ask around and if it is, I'll throw it in the suggestion. I'm thinking of something like this (visual edit, not coded): https://imgur.com/msd1Gzi. I'll go ahead and add the galleries, and I'm thankful for TRG, because they did save me a lot of work. Oneofthosedf (talk) (contribs) 14:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


I had a thought that it would be nicer to find all designers by giving them navigation infobox. I made it here, can I add it? [1]--Rocket Grunt 16:30, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Surprised we don't already have a category for them as well, though both a nav box and category would probably be redundant.--ForceFire 11:47, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks.--Rocket Grunt 12:52, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Reverting literally all of my edits

ForceFire, why are you reverting literally all of my edits you notice? You seem to be biased against me like I'm an undercover Soviet (which I am NOT!). Can you please explain this? Mario60866 (talk) 18:33, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

I monitor the recent changes regularly and check edits that catch my attention, especially if it's a user that has made problematic edits in the past. You are not the first user that I have monitored the edits of.--ForceFire 19:20, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

But why are you calling literally all my edits problematic? Mario60866 (talk) 19:21, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Because you've either A)added very unnotable trivia B) constantly reverted edits, i.e. edit war or C) Have very extreme views on things that we can't control. That's why your edits are "problematic" and are worth monitoring.--ForceFire 19:30, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Firstly, I'll have you know that I have religious beliefs against sexuality and that's why I've tried to sex-proof Bulbapedia by removing links like that.

Second, my edit on the form difference page was a legitimate edit because there are Pokemon that change HP stay based on their formes, such as Zygarde. It says on there "other than HP" which is genuinely incorrect.

Third, you are right that I should not be adding personal opinions like my similarities to May or that Giratina is my favorite Pokemon, but some people do legitimately mistake Flygon for a Pseudo-legendary, for example. I added that piece of information specifically because I've had people say to me that Flygon among a few others is a Pseudo-legendary, and I even specified why in the trivia it was not.

At this point I think you are completely biased against me, whether it's because of stupid mistakes I did make or simply because you disagree with me, but that is no reason to treat me this way. I've been treated this way by too many people in my life and I'm tired of it. I've already mentioned this to a member of the editorial board in fact. Mario60866 (talk) 22:11, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

The fact that most of your edits were reverted by me is just a consequence of me monitoring the recent changes and checking edits of users that have made problematic edits in the past. You are not the first, nor are you the only, nor will you be the last user whose edits I monitor from the recent changes.--ForceFire 07:29, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Pages for analysis

Hello, I'm sending this message to ask about the possibility that these pages here meet requirements to go to mainspace. Boldore's page, I think, will fulfill the requirements from Friday's episode. I'm also sending a link with a shortcut to some Trainer templates for some characters, I know some of them don't meet the requirements, but probably one or two might work.

The other two are from events that happened and don't have pages, I tried to follow the same pattern as other events in the anime. I'm sending mainly because I have a lot of pages to be mounted in my userspace, and I want to try to reduce that amount.

There are some from other users, i hope I don't have a problem with that, which I also wanted to know if it was possible to be analyzed.

These are pages that I helped in some sections and that I wanted to work on more, but as they are pages of other users, I don't know if something can be done without their consent. And some of them aren't often here, so there's little point in trying to get in touch.

I thank you in advance.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 03:25, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Mewtwo's role in the game is not as notable or important to the plot of its game as Arceus is to Legends. Not every Pokemon is a sliver of importance in a game is notable for its own article. And adding its appearance in other media doesn't make it notable.
Goh's Boldore would be notable, regardless of its role in the next episodes, as it had an important role in a previous episode.
I think the Ash article is fine.
Both Flower Arrangement and Sinnoh Fair would need a bit of cleanup, some external link template at the bottom, and they're good.
For the Anime character Pokemon tmeplates, we only makes them when one of their Pokemon has an article and if they have more than one Pokemon. So only Cynthia, Korrina, Brandon, Clair, Volkner, and Barry are fine. The Adventures template seems fine, but best to ask someone who edits to manga section for their opinion.
All three are fine.
As for these two. These are not notable. Quality over Quantity. They are too small to be articles. We want fully fleshed articles, not articles that are a couple of paragraphs surrounded by colorful templates.--ForceFire 05:57, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Can I be transferring these pages that you approved to the mainspace? I asked BigDocFan for help, not to exceed my daily personal edit limit. And I'll be working on the details you mentioned that need to be done in the others.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 14:25, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
You can move the pages/templates that I gave approved.--ForceFire 15:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
None of Volkner's Pokémon have a page. Why is his template approved? Rahl (talk) 15:36, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Oh, could've sworn one of his Pokemon had an article, then yeah, that isn't notable.--ForceFire 15:38, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Boldore is unable to be moved, can you solve this?I was going to wait until Friday, but since we're doing it.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 15:45, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Boldore will be moved once the episode has aired as it technically still hasn't appeared in three episodes.--ForceFire 15:44, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
I think whoever moved the Volkner template got confused. Anyway, I think it can be reversed, no?

Boldore will be moved once the episode has aired as it technically still hasn't appeared in three episodes.

OK everything is fine. Thanks for the feedback.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 15:47, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Does the template requiring only one Pokémon apply only to the anime? Because this template User:Animaltamer7/Whitley's Pokémon otherwise qualifies. Rahl (talk) 16:05, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

I think this one is the same as the Adventures template, Rahl. It has to be discussed with someone who takes care of the manga part of the site.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you, Force Fire and everyone. I saw that it took some extra work to make all the changes. Next time I'll try not to accumulate so as not to generate extra work for the whole team. --Hikaru Wazana (talk) 21:30, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
The rule should apply to both manga and anime character's Pokemon. That one should be fine, as she has more than one Pokemon.--ForceFire 06:06, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Great. Thank you. Rahl (talk) 12:05, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm guessing none of Volkner's Pokemon are considered worthy enough for their own page, Electivire and Luxray seem worthy but haven't done much besides battling.--BigDocFan (talk) 19:07, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Electivire's role is bigger in the manga than in the anime, in Adventures, Volkner uses it to face Giratina, train Platinum and among other things. I thought about making a page of it from this version, but apparently in the manga characters pages, the notability rule is different. --Hikaru Wazana (talk) 19:30, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
See here for Manga notability requirements. I'm not knowledgeable on the manga, so best ask someone that is for their opinion.--ForceFire 12:01, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Goh's Boldore

Now that JN102, can Boldore be mainspaced, if so could you do it because of the redirect link. Also, Boldore was shown to withstand Sheer Cold so can we take this as it having the ability Sturdy?--BigDocFan (talk) 11:31, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

I already realized that, I opened a discussion about Boldore's ability before. It's not the first time Goh has used Boldore's stamina for something in the anime, for me there is no doubt that this Pokémon's ability is Sturdy.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 11:35, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
I think Sturdy's depiction of a Pokemon withstanding attacks is too vague to make an educated guess, many, many, Pokemon have withstood attacks and a majority don't have Sturdy. So Sturdy is an ability that needs to be explicitly mentioned.--ForceFire 12:01, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Isn't the fact it was the only one to withstand Sheer Cold not enough proof? Rahl (talk) 12:20, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
I don't recall if ohko moves have been explicitly referred to as such in the anime, or if the concept of move being an ohko move exists, so Sheer Cold could just be seen as any other move.--ForceFire 05:48, 19 March 2022 (UTC)


So yesterday I added more info to Goh's Eternatus page, as I thought it should cover Eternatus as the Darkest Day. Do you think it's a good idea to rename the page to something like Eternatus (Darkest Day) and re-add the info?--Reinhartmax (talk) 11:32, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

I think there being a manga version of Goh's specific Eternatus makes it more "unique", as in it's not just any random Eternatus. I don't think a separate article for the one specific game Eternatus is needed, that can be put in their respective sections in their respective articles.--ForceFire 05:48, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Pages for deletion

I saw you deleting some pages in the RC's, so could you take a look at other pages to be deleted? I think they're sitting there and the staff didn't make a backlog of these pages.

The pages about battle facility Pokémon in that category can be deleted because these have been replaced. --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 20:04, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Staff will get to the articles in those categories, and any other categories of similar nature, when they can. We have lives. No need to get all worried and panicky about this sort of stuff.--ForceFire 05:48, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

evkl's welcome template

I think I realize by now that I could have just copied my own version to my own userspace and do the modifications there, right?

I did so because the current version of the welcome template has an issue with the signature field. Specifically, it breaks on mobile devices, so I wanted to create a non-breaking version. (My custom CSS has that all tables are to have border-collapse set to separate, so it might look different for you). --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 14:52, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Regular/casual users aren't going to find it anyway. It doesn't matter.--ForceFire 15:03, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
Okay. I decided to just have my own version in my own userspace, but with the content matching the one in evkl's version (for consistency). --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 15:11, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Goh's Caterpie

This page User:Rahl/Goh's Caterpie meets the notability requirements. Could it get mainspaced? Rahl (talk) 15:40, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Done.--ForceFire 15:44, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Lavender Town and hoaxes

You do realize that, outside of the community, Lavender Town is known for being the subject of tons of hoaxes and not specifically Lavender Town Syndrome, right? Also, anyone who has learned about the myth that the music was changed would have learned about the whole hoax. No one's gonna mention that the music was supposedly changed and not the suicides and such. The effects are the entire point of the hoax. The music was simply the backdrop. The trivia point skates around mentioning a specific hoax by completely ignoring why people outside of the community know that music change lie. So, if it's truly notable enough, the reason it's notable at all should be included. Nobody cares that the music was changed, people only care why it was supposedly changed. Add what people know it for or delete it. That part by itself lacks any notability. Since you can't mention a specific hoax, the only option is to get rid of it. The fact that Lavender Town's the subject of hoaxes is infinitely more notable than that, and therefore infinitely more worthy than the current point. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Your reason holds absolutely no water. General Kipicus (talk) 23:31, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Dub season logos in series' pages

I was thinking that dub season logos could be added in the individual series' pages. Here is an example. What do you think?--Ricbolog1310 (talk) 13:03, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I think it's fine, though it's probably more appropriate in the gallery section of those articles, as it's already there.--ForceFire 16:11, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I was being consistent with the way logos are shown in the original series page. Ricbolog1310 (talk) 16:18, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Ah, only checked the RS article. Well, if it's already done there, then can't see why it can't be done on the other series article.--ForceFire 16:20, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. In this case I'll add them.--Ricbolog1310 (talk) 16:45, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

"Undiscovered" Egg Group

All move pages still use the name "Undiscovered" instead of "No Eggs Discovered". Are they supposed to?--Rocket Grunt 23:29, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

N Template

So you deleted the template for N, which I think might have been a mistake. He has four Pokémon with pages.--Rahl (talk) 16:53, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

While I'm on the topic, Pryce, Lt. Surge, Koga, Jasmine, and Blaine have more than one Pokémon with a page.--Rahl (talk) 17:00, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
12 years ago, this was proposed by electAbuzzzz, a now-retired staff member. I think the staff brought this up again, on the staff-only section of the forums. --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 17:12, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
No. No it was not brought up on the staff forums nor on the staff discord. I found it after trying to remember where exactly I saw the "rules" I laid out in my previous response. Admittedly I could only vaguely remember the first rule, and not the second.
As for those, may have missed the manga specific articles as I was mainly focused on the anime part. I've restored those one.--ForceFire 17:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing those. - unsigned comment from Rahl (talkcontribs)

Three questions

  1. If you think a similar bit is actually okay on the Buck page, then why did you remove the bit I added to kodama's page? I know search is the bigger issue here, but I think it requires to be talked about.
  2. Is it okay that I can mainspace my {{code}} template? Bulbapedia did have it at some point, but it was deleted. Using it is actually much easier than having to type <code><nowiki></nowiki></code> (without the <nowiki></nowiki> in some cases). Of course, I will change the documentation template used on the template page (after mainspacing the page) to the one bthrussellUK made.
  3. I think I could create the page Template:Tl (short for "template link") as a redirect to the {{template}} link template. I feel its name is too long in this case, but I am not requesting you to move the template. What do you think?

--Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 20:37, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

First of all, I did not add the baku bit to Buck's article. Do not make false accusations, you are treading a very thin line here. Secondly, just because it's elsewhere doesn't mean it's okay. I've removed it.
No and no.--ForceFire 06:07, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

April Fools' Day 2022 article (serious matter)

For the article about this day (which is currently located at User:Bfdifan2006/April Fools' Day 2022), you said it can go back to the mainspace when April 1 is over in all parts of the world. In that case, it should be re-mainspaced on April 2, at 11:00 UTC (which is when April 1 is over in Niue). Ideally, this would be at 12:00 UTC on that day, but all territories that use UTC -12 are uninhabited. The time zone that is the furthest behind but used by people is UTC -11, used in Niue. See here. I'm saying this is serious, so you don't treat it as an April Fools' joke.

Do not create a new article about the same thing. After re-mainspacing mine, just expand it. --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 07:54, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

... This was completely unnecessary. You, or anyone, can just move the page once April 2nd roll over. No need to spam my talk page with this nonsense.--ForceFire 08:42, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I mainspaced BthrussellUK's version of the article because it was already more fleshed out than yours.--ForceFire 11:38, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Just delete User:Bfdifan2006/April Fools' Day 2022, I don't need that anymore. I included most info about Duck there, in fear that the article will be deleted, but since it wasn't, all this is redundant. --Bfdifan2006 12:17, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

April Fools' Day 2022/Duck (Pokémon)

In the first section on this page, the link that says "Duckling" is meant to link to the Evolution section of that page, but now it links to the page's original title. Can you fix that so it doesn't need to reload the page to just load a redirect? --Bfdifan2006 12:17, 2 April 2022 (UTC)


I literally added a similar bit to Meloetta's page, stating it being the mascot of Pokémon Showdown. Nobody removed it, so why wasn't the Poképédia mascot thing notable for Uxie? And I am not calling you to remove that bit from Meloetta's page. --Bfdifan2006 11:35, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Because a Pokemon being used as a mascot for a fansite is not notable. The Uxie bit has also been removed many times before with the same reasoning. I know what I'm doing, I've been around a fair bit. Azumarill, Koffing, Celebi, and Bulbasaur (to name a few) also don't have trivia about them being mascots of Marriland, Smogon, Serebii, and Bulbapedia.--ForceFire 11:53, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I found a source that calls the pattern on Eevee's tail a heart


In this community, there was a user who agreed with my post claiming the Eevee has a heart on its tail. The user who replied to this thread at the bottom said that it was a heart, and didn't mention anything about a flower. Mario60866 (talk) 11:24, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Other "fans" agreeing with your opinion does not count as a source.--ForceFire 12:02, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Why did you put the word fans in quotation marks? Are you implying you think I made this up? Mario60866 (talk) 12:57, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Because the user that agreed with you has a Wobbuffet related name and avatar, and you have a thing regarding Wobbuffet (be it about a metagame strategy, your brother and his multiple wobbuffet accounts on showdown, or about someone making troll comments on your youtube videos), so yes it's hard to believe that it's really someone else.--ForceFire 13:26, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

This guy is actually Leonard Craft III, who is a known moderator on Pokemon Showdown (DaWoblefet) so it's not who you're thinking of. Mario60866 (talk) 13:28, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Also, he wasn't the only one who agreed with me. A guy with an elephant avatar also agreed with me, and I never talked about the weird thing I used to have about Phanpy yet. Mario60866 (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The other user did not agree with you, they were just saying that it was cute, not that it had a "heart" shape pattern. Another user also questions whether the pattern is actually a heart or a flower.
Bottom line is, the opinions of others do not matter, only the official sources do (and a random forum is not an official source). in this case, where there is no official source, we go but what makes the most sense, and the pattern being a flower makes the most sense. Because the pattern loops around the tail, it is not confined to one part of the tail. Bolded for emphasis.--ForceFire 13:38, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

There was another user in the thread who posted a picture of an official Eevee source proving there was a heart on its tail. Mario60866 (talk) 13:56, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

They just reposted the official artwork, there's not source actually saying that it's meant to be a heart. And you're simply refusing to listen, the pattern surrounds its tail, therefore, when you view it from above it forms a flower. I suggest you drop this, as you are simply trying to get your own way by assuming other people agreeing with you somehow validates your opinion.--ForceFire 14:11, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
Partner Eevee gender differences.png Discussion's over. Kai * the Arc Toraph 19:18, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Crunch/Thunder Fang

I strongly, strongly disagree with you on this. Those weren't electric spark, just energy sparks of the energy jaws hitting each other. In every other way, it's identical to Houndoom's Crunch. That minor of a difference shouldn't count as evidence towards a much more illogical move. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:43, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Ok, fair point about the sparks, but it still doesn't mean it's Crunch. Crunch does not have a unique enough animation.--ForceFire 12:02, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
We've seen two confirmed cases of Crunch in Journeys, and in my opinion, comparing them with Huntail's move counts as good evidence of it being Crunch. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 14:42, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
The difference between the elemental fangs and Crunch (and to an extent, Bite) is that the former have an extra flair to their animations, whereas the latter two do not. A simple biting animation could be either Crunch or Bite. You can bring up the other examples of "Crunch" all you want, the bottom line is, the animation is too simple and vague to be a specific move.--ForceFire 07:24, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Bite has a distinctively different animation compared to Crunch in Journeys. Crunch is jaws of energy clamping down on the opponent, whereas with Bite, the user releases teeth-shaped energies from its mouth at the opponent. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 09:49, 11 April 2022 (UTC)


I strongly suspect that this person is actually Kittystyler. Compare these edits (both from confirmed sockpuppets) with this edit. In addition, they seem to focus on character relationships and their grammar structure just seems similar to Kittystyler in general. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 21:43, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately I can't compare their IP addresses as all of KittyStyler's socks have been inactive for too long to compare them to MinnieG. Making similar edits is considered circumstantial, and the only other evidence I have is regarding their email, but that's too weak of evidence to say they're a sock of KittyStyler.--ForceFire 05:37, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
Yeah... I'm aware it's circumstantial evidence, but I do still feel like it's at least worth looking out for. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 07:05, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Re: Images

I understand that not all articles need appearances sections for two stage evolutions, I just thought they did because I saw a couple of them that did, like Casey's Meganium and Serena's Delphox.--MinnieG (talk) 09:58, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Update "Upcoming Anime "Page with Up-To-Date Upcoming Episodes (ASAP)

All the episodes listed are out of date. Could you or someone please fix this by display upcoming current episodes that are coming and up to date (like the one coming this week)? Also, could you do this for all the channels and locations?


I already made a comment on the page's Talk page, but there is no answer. Macpika (talk) 22:15, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

This news page is being moved to a new place at some point in the future and is no longer being updated. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:25, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks a million. I was wondering what was going on. Macpika (talk) 00:24, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Attack Order

I've found a YouTube video that shows one of the Japanese-exclusive Professor Oak's lecture segments, this one specifically from the DP series. In it, a Vespiquen attacks Professor Oak with a move that he identifies as Attack Order. And it looks nothing like the move the Combee used in DP032, which Bulbapedia has counted as Vespiquen using Attack Order. Should it be changed to a move error of the Combee using Psybeam? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:14, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I'll have to find the Japanese episode somehow to verify, but judging by DP032's talk page, seems to be guesswork. As for the move Combee used, it could've been any beam move.--ForceFire 15:05, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Based on the rainbow colors, it's most likely Psybeam, but whatever it is, it's not Attack Order. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:21, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
Found a Japanese version of the episode. Attack Order wasn't mentioned at any point. May I delete the mentions of Attack Order in relation to DP032? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 23:54, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Go for it. I'm inclined to believe that it wasn't stated in the original version due to it being guesswork in the first place.--ForceFire 05:36, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
As for Psybeam: here's a pair of comparison images:
Cheryl's Mothim using Psybeam in DP031
Combee's move from DP032
Both beams are multicolored, have identical animations, and are from consecutive episodes in the same series. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 14:28, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
It doesn't matter if it looks similar to other instances of Psybeam, it's still a vague "mutli-colored beam". It is too simple of an animation. Signal Beam and Aurora Beam were also portrayed as a "multi-colored beam" during DP, so it could also be any of those two.--ForceFire 14:44, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
I admit, those two beams look similar. But the images I provided use the same colors, despite being multicolored, and there weren't any beam attacks used during the DP series that used the same multicolor scheme as Psybeam. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 16:41, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Suicune and Cubone

Hi, good morning. I would like to know, if with today's episode, what are the chances of Suicune and Cubone going to mainspace. I mean, in the case of the Cubone, technically, it achievied the requirements today. --Hikaru Wazana (talk) 10:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

I wanted to take the opportunity to discuss another topic with you, It's been a while since I've been putting together the images of the strips that anipoke's profile posts on Twiiter[2]. I've been thinking that maybe this content fits better in the pages of each episode, because probably by the end of Journeys, this page can get huge and with a huge list of references. This page proved to be very complicated to update and put content, one of the reasons why I take so long to update it completely. What do you (or the Bulbapedia's staff) think about this idea?--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 14:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Suicune and Cubone have been moved. As for the strips, they seem to be in the same vain as Get Inspired! Let's Solve a Poké Riddle!!. I think it's fine for its own article and for individual episodes to have it mentioned in the trivia, as we do with the other Japan exclusive bonus content.--ForceFire 10:22, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Poke Ball (Jungle 64)

In regards to the deletion of Poke Ball (item) and Poke Ball (Hisui), should the similar redirect for Poké Ball (Jungle 64) also be deleted? There are also other similar redirects such as: Pokemon (species), Pokemon (TCG), Poke Fan (Trainer class), Poke Maniac (Trainer class), Poke Kid (Trainer class), and so on. Thoughts? Landfish7 06:53, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Goh Pokemon Pages

I was wondering if Grimer, Misdreavus and Absol were worthy of having their own pages right now?--BigDocFan (talk) 15:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry to get involved in your conversation. But I wanted a suggestion, regarding this page here. When I created it, I imagined that the two monkeys would have similar screen time(Actually, I thought Goh was going to capture a Pansage up until this point), but Panpour apparently proved to be more notable than Pansear and technically, it met the requirements to go to mainspace, but Pansear has yet to have at least one more major appearance. What should I do in this case? Do I leave the page as it is or divide it to make room for a Panpour solo page?
I'm wanting to reduce Goh's Pokémon pages, so much so that I'm waiting to see if Goh's Froakie will really have a relevance to the anime before actually making a page for it. If Froakie has a relevant role in the Greninja episode maybe I'll be working on it.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 19:25, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
Grimer, Misdreavus, and Absol all meet the notability requirements. As for Pansear/Panpour, only Panpour would be notable. And I think having individual articles for the two is better, it would only make sense to group them if he had all three and if there's not enough info to necessitate splitting them into three articles.--ForceFire 06:11, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Just so I understand, according to the rules, Frogadier (good thing I waited to create the page LOL) only needs one more major appearance in the anime, right? As for Panpour, well I put the monkeys page in a space that I reserved to be deleted. If you can sort this out for me, please.[3]
Having no idea what Goh's role would be in an anime series based on Scarlet and Violet, I think it's best to avoid having too many pages for his Pokémon. We are going to that moment when the Pokémon that are notable are, those that are not, unfortunately, will no longer be--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 10:50, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Do these three pages have what it takes to go to mainspace?

Theoretically, they are within the rules stipulated for Goh's Pokémon.--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 13:55, 05 May 2022 (UTC)

RE: Goh's Dustox

I understand. I just assumed that since they've appeared in at least three episodes, and two of them were mainly focused on them, I thought it was notable enough to give them their own articles. I saw that Trapinch's box was removed from the "Recurring" part of Goh's Pokémon. I'll just re-add Trapinch there, since you've informed me that his page was notable enough for an article.

HygorBH (talk) 05:19, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Goh's Pyukumuku

I wanted to know if Goh's Pyukumuku is eligible to receive its own page. It had three episodes in which was somewhat prominent on, and I wonder if it's enough to earn it it's page?

HygorBH (talk) 15:41, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Don't just make the article after asking. Pyukumuku is notable for an article.--ForceFire 05:25, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Image dispute

There's been disagreement over at Bulbagarden Archives, with Rahl reverting several images, some multiple times, because they don't agree with the reasons given to why the current version should be used. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 20:57, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Unnecessary redirects

Yesterday, I removed the redirect "Unevolve", which had led to "Devolution" . Can you remove it? Also, there's a redirect page called "Literal Ghost" leading to "Ghost (literal)", even though only "Literal ghost" (with a small g) has ever been used on various talk pages. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 07:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Champion Pokemon

Hi, could User:Rahl/Wallace's Milotic and User:BigDocFan/Leon's Charizard be mainspaced? According to notability rules, both qualify. Rahl (talk) 14:34, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Leon's Charizard has mostly just appeared in battles, so it's not notable yet. Wallace's Milotic, not too sure if opening the Wallace Cup would fall under having an impact on the plot (putting on a show in its debut appearance, doesn't), otherwise it's only other notable appearance is a battle, so that too wouldn't make it notable.--ForceFire 06:44, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
I'm failing to see how they aren't notable according to the rules. Both are their signature Pokémon, have done nonbattle related things (Milotic with the Wallace Cup, Charizard with the Darkest Day and JN100), have media related to more than just the anime, and have had impact on the plot (both worked as a motivation for a main character to improve/develop). What exactly is missing for them to not be mainspaced? Rahl (talk) 11:27, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Am I going to hear back from you on this? Rahl (talk) 10:07, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
I see you've been editing over the past few days and am wondering if I'm going to hear back from you? Rahl (talk) 10:02, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Apologies for the late response. For Milotic, I'm not sure if its role in the Wallace Cup could be considered having an impact on the arc/plot, get second opinions for this one. For Charizard, all of its role were still mostly for battles, it needs to do something that isn't it battling another Pokemon.--ForceFire 06:11, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Who should I seek out for a second opinion on Milotic? And as for Charizard, while it has mostly battled, it serves as Ash's main obstacle to overcome in Journeys, helped with the Darkest Day crisis, and had a nonbattle role in JN100 where it trained with Leon and Ash. We also know it is going to have more appearances, not to mention its role in the manga, games, TGC, and multiple other animes. I think the 'only battled' argument is keeping this a little too restrictive. Leon's Charizard clearly deserves to have a page of its own. Rahl (talk) 10:15, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
You can ask anyone about the notability Milotic's role, staff member or regular user. Basically just get the general idea of what others think. For Charizard, its appearance in other media doesn't make it more notable for an anime centric article. It can appear in 100 more episodes, but if it's all just battling, then it's still not notable. Leon used it very briefly in the training and Charizard doesn't really do anything of note. It being a motivator for Ash is more about the development of Ash than it is about Charizard.--ForceFire 10:35, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Multiple people have voiced their agreement for Milotic. Could you please move the page to the mainspace? Rahl (talk) 15:24, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Saw it and felt that it kinda missed the point. Mostly the opinion is "it appeared a whole bunch, so it has to be notable" not about what it actually did in those episodes. I'll repeat what I said about Charizard, Milotic could appear in another 100 episodes but if it didn't do anything of note, it still wouldn't be notable.--ForceFire 15:28, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
"Gym Leaders may have an article about their signature Pokémon, but only if it did more than just battle in the episode(s) it appeared in and had some impact on the plot. Elite Four members, Champions, and Frontier Brains also fall into this category." Since none of this seems to matter and we are not following them, can the notability rules be changed so this problem doesn't happen again? Rahl (talk) 15:31, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
"but only if it did more than just battle in the episode(s) it appeared in and had some impact on the plot". It has to do more than battle and what it does has to be impactful to the plot. They are not individual criteria.--ForceFire 15:36, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Great. Milotic inspired Dawn and helped her regain her confidence in Contests. Charizard helped stop the Darkest Day and is acting as motivation for Ash in the World Series. Both impact the plot, and based on what I've seen, nobody else is arguing that these pages don't meet the criteria. This wiki is a collaborative effort, yet nothing is allowed to happen because you personally don't agree these fit the rules? Rahl (talk) 15:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Well, I decided to post here because Rahl asked me to put my opinion.
The problem is that Leon's Charizard page isn't exactly anime-centric. Let's say, Pokémon Evolutions has an episode that shows a lot of Leon's relationship with Charizard, Charizard is one of Leon's most frequent Pokémon in Twilight Wings. As I said in another topic, here are some pages that just don't make sense to be in the mainspace, this one, for example, wasn't even finished and it was already approved.
As for Milotic, I think the same thing, it's a champion's signature Pokémon. The rule that" only battles don't make it a notable Pokémon" seems confusing to me, because I had about three episodes removed from the content of Goh's Farfetch'd's page because they said at the time that these battles were not remarkable to be on his page. Far from wanting to criticize, but some rules need to be reviewed and updated in my opinion. Because that ends up creating more confusion than making things easier.-- Hikaru Wazana (talk) 21:50, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Charizard is an anime centric article because the anime info is the first thing that's highlighted. Just like how Agatha's Gengar and Lucy's Seviper are manga centric articles because the manga is what is first highlighted. Evolutions and Twilight Charizard is not the same as main series Charizard, just as game/manga Charizard is not the same as anime Charizard. They're all treated as individuals and not one and the same. So whatever Evolutions Charizard does has no bearing on what main series Charizard's notability, since the former is not the focus of the article. For Vikavolt, it's Horacio's signature and had a major role in its second appearance. That's why it has an article.
For Milotic, it's not what it does that's not notable it's how much do people think it was impactful that would determine its notability in this case. I don't remember much of the Wallace Cup arc, so I can't say if it was really impactful to the arc. For your edits that were removed, not every battle needs to be highlighted, just the ones deemed notable. Farfetch'd battling a Gym Leader's Pokemon? notable. Farfetch'd battling a random wild Pokemon that doesn't turn out to be anything special? not notable.--ForceFire 06:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
A Pokemon being a motivator for a character is more about the development of the character and not the overall arc. Which is what the criteria asks for. Not having an impact on a character, having an impact on an arc/plot. Charizard's involvement in Darkest Day was ultimately still a battle. Steven's Metagross is on a similar level, but is notable because it helped the characters infiltrate Team Flare's base, that's Metagross having some sort of impact on the plot (technically it was a battle, but there's a wider context).
The wiki is a collaborative effort, but if users aren't understanding the criteria, then staff are going to step in and make it clear what the criteria are asking for.--ForceFire 06:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
You said it yourself, having an impact on an arc/plot is what is important. Charizard has done that with the Darkest Day, yet for some reason battling-the major focus of Pokémon-is written off as being useless. Both of these Pokémon have a much larger role across both the anime and the franchise as a whole compared to something like Horacio's Vikavolt. Your defense for that is that it is Horacio's signature Pokémon and had a major role. So did both of these Champion's Pokémon. It makes no sense why these Pokémon have not done enough in your eyes. I suggest you change the language used for the notability rules, or at the very least find some consistency in your argument, as it is very unclear what the actual standards are. Rahl (talk) 07:46, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
"Your defense for that is that it is Horacio's signature Pokémon and had a major role." A major role that wasn't just it battling another Pokemon, which Charizard's role in Darkest Day ultimately was. Metagross' role, because it's in a similar setting, was that it battled to help the main characters infiltrate Team Flare's base. Charizard battled to stop a Pokemon. It wasn't to stop Rose from furthering his plans or something. It was still a Pokémon battle, something that isn't too out of the ordinary for a franchise about battling.--ForceFire 08:25, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
It's ridiculous that to you Charizard is only notable if it participates in something like a dance contest instead of the large amount of stuff it has already done. Even then, Milotic has done nonrelated battle things and you still say that's not important. Nothing will be, will it? If you want to go against what the rules say and the general opinion of the wiki, fine, but please update the notability rules to fit your personal ideal so nobody else ends up wasting their time. Rahl (talk) 14:44, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
If Charizard was in a competition and did something that had an impact on the plot, then it would be notable. Otherwise, if it didn't do anything else and just competed/played it straight, then it still wouldn't be notable (because it didn't do anything else). You're too caught up with the idea that simply appearing and being part of a non-battle event would make it notable. It doesn't. It's what it does during the episode that matters. Vikavolt helped free the Pokemon that was captured by Team Rocket in SM119 (which was when it was mainspaced), Goh's Dewgong protected Chloe and Eevee from a Huntail in JN063 (which was when it was mainspaced), Korrina's Lucario had multiple notable non-battle appearances by the time it was approved.
As for Milotic, I repeat again. Is what it did important enough to the overall arc? You asked on Wallace's talk page but failed to bring that up, only bringing up the notability requirements and everyone else just says yes based off it. On surface level, yes it meets the notability requirement, but notability doesn't involve just reading the requirements and going "yep, it's notable". You have to think about and assess whether what it did in those non battle episodes would make it notable.--ForceFire 06:14, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
Okay, I don't even know if I should help the discussion, but here goes. In the anime, Leon's Charizard:
  • It was confirmed to be Leon's Starter Pokémon. They even showed all its evolution stages in the anime.
  • It was his choice to battle in the first World Championship. In other words, it was used in a competition by Leon.
  • Charizard was used to defend Leon's title (which in the context of Journeys is the same as rivals' Gym Battles). This was, for example, what served to make Bianca's Pignite page notable [4]. [5]. In short, it was used by Leon in the current WCS season.
  • In the context of Darkest Day:
    • Leon used Charizard to defeat Centiscorch and save Ash and his Pokémon.
    • Leon used Charizard as a means of locomotion and to defeat the Coalossal. In other words, he used it for something other than battle.
    • It was used against Eternatus, which according to Leon himself showed that he is not the most powerful Trainer in the world yet as he said in JN100. In other words, this battle (and defeat) is part of Leon's arc in Journeys.
  • JN100, if we ignore the battle against Flint (which again, we can consider as the Gym battles of old), Charizard was used in Leon's flying training

Now to the rules:

  • For rival characters and other recurring characters, only their signature Pokémon may have an article created about them.Charizard is Leon's signature Pokémon. CHECK
  • If a rival's signature Pokémon does nothing more than battle or has no major impact on the plot, then it is not notable for an article and instead should have a section on its Trainer's page. The Coalossal case, Charizard did not battle. Leon's Training did not involve battles. CHECK(!?!)
  • Gym Leaders may have an article about their signature Pokémon, but only if it did more than just battle in the episode(s) it appeared in and had some impact on the plot. Examples would be Blaine's Magmar, which saved the Cinnabar Gym and developed Charizard's personality, or Clair's Dragonair, which helped save the Dragon Kingdom. Elite Four members, Champions, and Frontier Brains also fall into this category. Leon's battle against Ash, served to show the concepts of Gigantamax to Ash. Leon's battle against Raihan served to work out the history of the rivalry between the two Trainers. CHECK

We can spend months discussing this, but the truth is that this is just looking like a matter of conflicting points of view. To me, this seems very much to fall into the problem that the pages are based on most of Ash's relationship with other characters and not his own stories. Even though Ash is the protagonist, it's been a long time since the anime revolves around him and the rules didn't adapt to that(Goh is probably the biggest proof of that). Hence we have to expect that a Pokémon like Charizard has to have some impact on the plot of a technically unrelated character like Ash. Well, I think I elongated too much in the text I put here. I hope it resolves the discussion somehow.-- Hikaru Wazana (talk) 15:50, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I want to swing back to this and point out that if Miette's Slurpuff is good enough for to be mainspaced than so should the other two, or are we really saying participating in a dance party is more relevant than anything else? Rahl (talk) 10:17, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
You clearly do not get it. If Charizard (and Leon) were to compete in a race (with Ash and Goh), then something happened to Ash and Goh. If Leon doesn't have Charizard go look for Ash and Goh, and just competes in the race from start to finish (therefore unseen for a chunk of the episode), then it still would not be notable. Just competing is not what would make it notable.
The only non-battle thing Charizard did is the training. Which it didn't even do much. What can you really say? Oooooooh, it smashed a few rocks and flew through a waterfall. Wow. Riveting. Fantastic read, can sum it all up in one sentence.
For Milotic, again, you didn't ask others the important factor; how much of what it did was notable. Nobody on Wallace's talk page took that to account. They just saw the notability requirements and went "yep, it meets everything here" without actually thinking about what it actually did in the Wallace Cup arc and evaluating whether it did makes it notable.--ForceFire 05:56, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
So, based on these criteria, even if Leon uses Charizard throughout the 8 Masters tournament campaign, we doesn't have the go-ahead to use this page. Leon's page in the anime, I had to adapt and look for alternatives in the manga section to be standardized precisely because this page doesn't exist. Leon's page in games has a huge infobox with very disproportionate little information precisely because of the lack of this page in the Adventures section;
Even if we are to cling to "all Pokémon X did was battle", more than half of the Pokémon of some rivals will have either undone. From Trip's Serperior, Gary's Arcanine/Gary's Electivire, Paul's Honchkrow to Georgia's Beartic. And I don't think there is much doubt about the importance of this Pokémon in some way. The ironic part of it all is that Leon's Charizard had more space in the anime than Pokemon like Lance's Dragonite, for example. About Milotic I confess that I don't even give an opinion anymore, with all this arm wrestling involving Charizard.
I have a vision of a certain reformulation that should be in the Anime section and with the Adventures manga (which is the manga with the longest defined chronology released) but I'm even afraid to give it.-- Hikaru Wazana (talk) 13:15, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
To say Miette's Slurpuff has more notability or value than Leon's Charizard is an odd choice and one that doesn't hold up when looking at either page or the importance of those Pokémon. Force Fire, please rewrite the rules to fit your mindset so users know what they are getting into. I don't even care if they make sense-they don't-but at least then we have a written process to follow. Your views and what the rules say don't match up as of now. Rahl (talk) 13:19, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
Again, you're not listening. Miette's Slurpuff did stuff outside of the Poke Contest stuff in its debut episode. Leon's Charizard has not done anything outside of battling in it's non battle episodes and its battle-focus episodes. Because that's what the notability requirements is asking for: "but only if it did more than just battle in the episode(s) it appeared in". As in, it needs to do something else other than showing up in a battle. Because it's Pokemon. Battling is the central point of the series. It's what it do. We're not going to have an article that is just "X battled in episode Y" over and over. It's not going to make for an interesting read.
And it also needs to have an impact on the plot. If Charizard battles and wins, then that's not having that much of an impact. Wow. It won. Who knew something would win a series about battling. If the battle was interrupted and Charizard helped get rid of whatever is interrupting the battle, then yes, that would be having an impact on the episode. Because it did more than just battle its intended opponent.
As for the articles Hikaru Wazana brought up, 3/5 of them were created before we got stricter with notability. Gary's Arcanine is fine as it helped stop Team Rocket in Extreme Pokemon! Gary's Electivire is fine as it help protect Shieldon from J and attempted to stop Saturn from taking one of the lake guardians. For Trip's Serperior and Georgia's Beartic, both were approved by the Head of Anime at the time of their move to the mainspace. So I'll assume there was a good reason for their existence.
I'm not trying to manipulate to criteria, I'm just following how the criteria has been interpreted over the years. And sometimes, that interpretation either gets stricter or more lenient. I'm not pulling all this out of thin air. There is no need to re-write the criteria just because you can't understand them.--ForceFire 13:46, 22 May 2022 (UTC)


Jiliang has already returned to adding dubious trivia to pages, along with trivia that had already been removed multiple times. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 21:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

I've given them a semi block, and a stern message, effectively forcing them to respond on their talk page or risk a full block.--ForceFire 16:50, 9 May 2022 (UTC)


Do Bea and Raihan count as rivals in a sense that major events should include their new Pokémon? I'm assuming yes for Bea, but I'm not 10% sure regarding Raihan. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:40, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Pokemon of notable rivals get mentioned only if they have articles.--ForceFire 12:15, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
By this, do you mean the "Major events" section or the "Pokémon debuts" section? After looking through episode pages from the original series all the way up to Journeys, it definitely appears to be standard to list new Pokémon for rivals in the "Major events" section, regardless of whether or not they have a page (and only their Pokémon with pages are listed in the "Pokémon debuts" section). PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 22:26, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Huh, that does seem to be the case after checking a few episodes of rivals obtaining new Pokemon (that I could remember at least), PMJ is right. As for Raihan, I think his 'mon are fine to be mentioned, as does have a major role.--ForceFire 06:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Can you fix my name please?

Hi, I just signed up to edit here, but I made a mistake in typing my username. I meant it to be ApexAgunomu. Can you please change my name to that? Thank you. ApexAgunomi (talk) 11:07, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Due to technical issues with the rename function we use, it is not possible to rename users at this time.--ForceFire 12:13, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
Then can you please block this account so I can make a new one with the correct name? Would that be okay? ApexAgunomi (talk) 16:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)


The link you recently added to that template should have "GO" instead of "Go" (mind the letter case) as the displayed text. Will you fix it? Thanks. --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 07:12, 15 May 2022 (UTC)


So we both edit war and I get blocked, but you get away with no consequences and the page turns out how you want because you’re a special admin and nobody but you is ever right. How about you take it to a talk page for once like you’re always preaching. Hypocritical and childish. Pikablu (talk) 15:29, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

I agree with you 100% Pikablu. ForceFire targets me this way too. Mario60866 (talk) 06:06, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

"Trainers start their journey at 10."

This is something that's only ever been stated in the anime. Red, Hilbert/Hilda, Elio/Selene, and Rei/Akari are all older than 10, for example (and no other game protagonist has ever explicitly been confirmed to be 10). The only games to mention a starting age at all are the Alola games, where you have to be 11 to take the island challenge. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 11:15, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

From what I can tell, this was because the protagonists prior to Generation V were "10 or 11 years old" according to Ken Sugimori. Inkster (talk) 11:18, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, but that would still mean that they're not explicitly confirmed 10 (and the fact that the Alola games are the only games to mention a starting age is still true as well). Hilbert/Hilda, ORAS Brendan/May, and Rei/Akari are all older than 10/11, too. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 11:26, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
But from what I see on his article, Red is said to be 10 in the European release. Inkster (talk) 11:40, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Assuming that's true, the Japanese release should take priority over both the American and European releases, although I actually don't know if it's ever been explicitly stated there. Even then, it only adds to my point of players not being explicitly confirmed as 10, given that the American release for the same game states that he's 11. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 11:51, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Given Sugimori said "10 OR 11" in that interview, it's more of an "either" situation, meaning the Gens I-IV protagonists are either 10 or 11 years old. Inkster (talk) 11:59, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
This would still mean that no protagonist has ever been explicitly confirmed to be 10 even prior to Gen V. If anything, it makes 11 just as likely of a starting age, if not even more so.
Given that there have been protagonists that have started as teenagers (Hilbert/Hilda and Rei/Akari being confirmed cases, although Calem/Serena are probably in that range too), I would definitely not put an age for Victor/Gloria if nothing has been stated. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 12:11, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Funny that you mention Rei/Akari when ForceFire, a beuracrat mind you, has rejected the source on their article several times, as an NPC guessing the player's age is, in his words, "not confirmation". Inkster (talk) 12:18, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Interesting. That definitely feels inconsistent since Victor/Gloria don't even have that going for them. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 12:25, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
I wasn't using that to talk about Victor/Gloria. I was bringing it up due to the edit warring it caused. Inkster (talk) 12:28, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

My points are simply that:

1. "Trainers start their journey at 10" is something that's only stated in the anime.

2. No protagonist has ever been outright confirmed to be 10 (even the Sugimori interview only stated that the protagonists prior to Gen V were 10/11 without naming specific cases), with Hilbert/Hilda being 14/15, ORAS Brendan/May being 12, Elio/Selene being 11, and Rei/Akari being "15 or so".

3. The same logic that was used on the Rei/Akari pages in the past (even though those pages do list their ages now) should be applied to a greater extent for Victor/Gloria, especially since no ages have even been hinted at officially. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 12:47, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

1. We all know that.

2. I never said the Gens I-IV protagsbwere 10, only 10 OR 11.

3. The logic used for Rei/Akari should still apply to their articles, especially since the quote was repeatedly deemed unreliable by a higher staff. And yes, I KNOW thay Victor/Gloria have no hints towards an official age. Inkster (talk) 12:55, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't mind whether or not it's removed from the Rei/Akari pages or not. I just find it inconsistent, especially since it was the same higher staff member. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 13:08, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
If anything, it should be removed from the Rei/Akari articles as in the context of the dialogue, Cyllene was assuming the player's age, meaning that their actual age is unknown. Inkster (talk) 22:51, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

(resetting indent)For the "trainers start their journeys at 10" bit. Could've sworn that was the case in the games as well, specifically in Gen I related materials (like a guidebook or something), may be misremembering. As for Rei/Akari, I still don't think it's solid confirmation as Cyllene is just guessing. That should be removed.--ForceFire 08:36, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Brendan/May from Ruby and Sapphire actually look younger than 10, at 7 or 8. Additionally, in LGPE the progagonists appear to be even younger, like 5 or 6, and same goes for Sword and Shield. Are we TOTALLY SURE that it's a given rule that a trainer has to be 10 to start?! Mario60866 (talk) 21:23, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Uh, what? How do RSE Brendan/May and Victor/Gloria look any visibly younger than Red/Leaf/Ethan/Kris/Lyra/Lucas/Dawn/Elio/Selene? Their artwork shows that they're roughly as tall as them, and there are kids in every game that are clearly younger than the protagonists (and I would peg those kids as being in the 6-8 range instead). In any case, I've already shown that it's not a constant rule in the games for the protagonists to be 10 (as seen with Hilbert/Hilda, ORAS Brendan/May, and Elio/Selene, who are all confirmed to be older). PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 13:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Beelzemon 2003

Beelzemon 2003 has made excessively long descriptions of event item distributions in the event item articles like the Eon Ticket and MysticTicket, involving details and images unrelated to the items themselves, mostly describing the gatherings where the items were distributed. I've removed the texts unrelated to the items themselves and tried to tell them not to do it again, but they still did it again afterwards. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:16, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Coin (TCG)

Maverick Nate is no longer the Head of TCG, however, glik, nuva-kal and Ruixiang95 are. Talking to you to prevent edit warring. --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 17:01, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

The fact that you listed those three names shows that you don't actually know what "Head of TCG" means. Glik is the head of TCG, not the other two.--ForceFire 17:06, 18 May 2022 (UTC)



Is everything ok to transfer this page to mainspace? I moved to my personal space to be able to work better on it, but I already put everything that was missing. Hikaru Wazana (talk) 00:16, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Looks fine, I've mainspaced it.--ForceFire 05:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Miette's Slurpuff

How you feeling about this page being mainspaced? It did nonbattle stuff after all. Rahl (talk) 10:33, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

IT does meet the notability requirements, I've mainspaced it.--ForceFire 07:26, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
I recall requesting mainspacing that article in the past, but it was rejected back them. Have the notability requirements changed since then? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 08:08, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
You requested it at least once on April 14, 2020, and the criteria changed on August 22, 2020. I'm not sure that's specifically what changed but just thought I'd point it out. Landfish7 08:20, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
With Miette owning a Pokemon with its own page and a second Pokemon, can Miette get her own Pokemon template--BigDocFan (talk) 08:51, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
With Slurpuff, and by extension Miette, being unlikely to appear again, I chose to re-evaluate it based off the one appearance it did have some impact, and decided what it did in that episode was notable enough. Ideally, I would like it to do more in just its debut episode, but given it's unlikely to appear again, thought I'd be a bit lenient with it.
As for giving Miette her own Pokemon template, the rule states that a character needs at least two of their Pokemon have articles, not that they own two or more Pokemon.--ForceFire 05:56, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Makes sense. Thank you for the explanation. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:19, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Unblock request

I humbly ask if there's a possibility to bring me back my privileges on editing the Nintendo Switch and creation trio pages. Finally, once I get my privileges on editing the Nintendo Switch and creation trio pages back, I will prove to you that I will be responsible with those pages in the future by discussing a major change, so as to avoid edit warring. --SaturnMario, his talk and his contributions 19:38, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Lillie's Magearna

I was wondering whether User:Samueljoo/Lillie's Magearna might be ready to be mainspaced?--BigDocFan (talk) 18:45, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Possible to merge accounts?

I used to work here as Croconaw2000, but I deleted the email a long time ago and don’t remember the password, so I was completely unable to log back in. Would it be possible to merge the two accounts in some way, or redirect the old account into this one?

Also, if MarioWiki says that Wartortle has the same Chinese name as Kooper, why shouldn’t we note it ourselves?

Pikmin3WiiU (talk)

... users are only allowed one account per person, but I'll allow this instance. It is not possible to merge accounts, and I don't think it's necessary to redirect the old one. And we're not MarioWiki. It may be notable there, but it's not notable here.--ForceFire 10:13, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn’t have made a new account if I could log back into the old one. I had also asked on the bulbapedia discord if it was possible to change the email or password and they suggested creating a new account

Pikmin3WiiU (talk)

Move template

Do you think the {{anmov}} template could be used for Z-Moves and Max Moves. I feel having the description of those moves on the Pokémon's article is unnecessary, given that, unlike improvised moves, they have move pages to house their move descriptions. They could definitely still remain under separate subheaders in the "Moves used" section, but the current format doesn't fit them IMO. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I feel having the same move descriptions on the Pokémon's page kind of defeats the purpose of having a separate page to house those descriptions, specifically the movie's own article. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
That's something I've also thought about as well, the descriptions aren't really needed as those are already explained on the individual move articles. The base move being used for the Z-move is probably the only important part, I think, so a re-tweaked version of the current move template to accommodate that would be good.--ForceFire 12:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Sounds good. Can I convert the templates if we use the tooltips template to identify the base move(s) until the tweaked template is ready?.--FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 15:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
As in, in a similar way that, say, Mimicked moves have tooltips to tell which they were copied from, except this time, they're used to identify the base move(s). --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 09:00, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
I'd be okay for that to be a temporary solution. As for the tweaked template, shouldn't be too difficult to get that done, thinking of simply adding another column to it, like so. Don't think I need to tweak the footer of the template.--ForceFire 17:36, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll start editing the move lists. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

First visits to a region

Do the first visits to a region from characters other than the Journeys main trio count as major events? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 11:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

For former main characters, yes. I believe we also note when Misty and Brock travelled to Alola in the major events section.--ForceFire 12:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
So only important when it is a main character?Pikablu (talk) 12:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Yes. They were at one point main characters, that makes them important enough.--ForceFire 12:47, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
And so we're clear, because I know what you're trying to do, the focus here is former main characters not Chloe or other supporting characters. Different rules for different characters.--ForceFire 12:48, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Wait, so it’s important if this is their first series or if they were a main character? Is that what you’re saying?Pikablu (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
If Brock and Misty were to go to Galar for the first time, then that would be noted in the major events section as they are important characters (being former main characters). If Shamus or Montgomery were to go to Galar for the first time, then they would not be noted in the major events section as they were not a main characters. Not that hard to understand.--ForceFire 13:25, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I don’t need the sass, I just wanted clarity, which you didn’t even do. Is it important to mention if this is their first series, say Ren or Danika?Pikablu (talk) 14:02, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Just wanted to be sure. Thanks, FF. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 15:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Lana's Lapras

Assuming it even matters, this page meets Notability requirements. Rahl (talk) 23:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

So I see you've answered multiple other comments on your talk page. Could you please answer this one as well? Rahl (talk) 11:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

This pointless edit war has to end once and for all

Hello, I see that you noticed the edits I made last week, I explained my case on my talkpage but unfortunately never got a reply on there. In summary, this whole situation about characters' ages has got out of control, I've come to a conclusion that no matter how much I try helping this situation, I definitely can't do it all by myself. I haven't got the opportunity to reach a clear consensus about the subject with a Staff Member since I never got a reply but since it seems you're interested in this, I definitely have to inform you that this case has to finally come to an end.

I feel like I have to explain this whole situation to you so you can know in depth what all of this is about, there's this user called Inkster, who you may recognize, who made an edit on March 29th to multiple articles related to player characters (these being Ethan's, Kris', Lyra's, Lucas' and Dawn's) where they added a piece of information related to their age, which have, for years, never been revealed and it also seems that throughout the entire existence of these character's articles there has never been an important version that specified any age either.

The source they quoted came to public knowledge in 2011, meaning that throughout this entire time, information about some of the characters' age has never been added to the site and if it would have been relevant information the characters' respective articles would have had the information on them for years like how Hilbert's and Hilda's articles have had their confirmed age on their articles for years.

Besides that, there's definitely a problem with the source, you see, what they're trying to use as the reference that supposedly confirms an age is Nintendo DREAM (ニンテンドードリーム) 2011年 01月号 [雑誌] where there was published an interview regarding to the art development of Pokémon Black & White, what this means is that they're using information about Pokémon Black and White that certainly has nothing to do with characters from games like HeartGold or Diamond, of course you wouldn't expect any information to be revealed that isn't about the newest games at the time (Black & White) and unsurpisingly that's exactly the case, all of what is written on there is about Pokémon Black and White.

The reason why they quoted that magazine, however, is because of a brief comment by Ken Sugimori which roughly mentions something like Hilbert and Hilda were designed to look older than ten or eleven-year-olds unlike previous game characters, the source that they quoted is in fact, a translation of the magazine that states quote, unquote "So this time we received orders from Masuda to increase the ages of Black & White’s protagonists, to make them older than the 10 or 11 year olds we used in previous games" and that is the only time it is mentioned any age regarding to previous characters.

I have to add that the term 10 or 11 year old to refer to pokémon player characters has been vastly used by a really big amount of people, this includes pretty much every player character even if their age has already been revealed. Why this term is so popular is mostly because of the anime, in which they never got tired to mention that trainers start a journey with pokémon since the age of 10, something that in the games (which is where the characters they're trying to show an age come from) has never been mentioned and let's not forget that before Black and White, the only player character that actually had a confirmed age was Red, who is 11 in Red and Blue. What this means is that 10 or 11 year old is clearly just a term to refer to any game player character rather than a confirmed age, and in this case, there was never an age that was explicitly revealed, making the source completely meaningless, 10 or 11 is just a starting age at best.

As you probably can tell, this short quote not only doesn't include any strong confirmation regarding to previous player characters' ages, in fact the interview doesn't even mention a clear age for Hilbert or Hilda, but Inkster is trying to show like if that quote is somehow factual information. Many users have already doubted the idea of adding an age to those articles out of that quote, the article versions that include this have been reverted on multiple occasions since it could be considered just as an assumption that goes against the speculation policy and could even be considered as vandalism since it is misinformation.

But then there's the edit war, instead of trying to allow time for a discussion so this subject can reach a clear consensus or even wait until that information is authorized to be part of the article, the user Team Rocket Grunt has been constantly reverting edits to Inkster's only because of their own perception with comments like "I think it (Sugimori's meaningless quote) does (confirm an age)" I think you've already noticed it the day I was contributing to Lucas' and Dawn's articles.

I've been doing some research about this subject and I found out that both Inkster and Team Rocket Grunt have had quite an interesting story to say the least, which I find relevant to this case and I'll share right away.

Inkster: This user apparently has something with the research of characters' age, looking at many articles, they've been responsible of editing the age section of many of the player characters, a small case I'd bring up is that they added Red's age from Red and Blue to Leaf's page with the excuse of "presumably Leaf has the same age that Red had in Red & Blue" yet they still add the "10-11" age to both Brendan's and May's articles by stating that that's the age they had in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald besides Brendan and May having a confirmed age, being 12, that was confirmed in the Ruby and Sapphire remakes, their excuse was, quote, unquote "Y'know, I think this information also applies to RSE Brendan and May, considering the whole multiverse thing and ORAS being seperate from RSE." For me this has no sense, if they're going to add different ages to characters based on their game, at least be consistent.

But this isn't the case that hurts the most, in Rei's and Akari's articles, Inkster was responsible of removing those two characters' ages, which previously was stated that they were 15. The reason for Inkster to remove that information, which not only was mentioned on the actual game, Pokémon Legends: Arceus, was simply because that age was mentioned by a NPC as an assumption of Rei/Akari's age so they can be part of the Survey Corps where it seems that the minimum age to be a Survey Corps member was at least 15, not to mention that no matter the character the player decides to play as, the character's counterpart would also appear on the game as another member of the Survey Corps, something that they weren't considering when editing those articles' trivia. I'd have been fine if Rei's/Akari's article didn't include any age if it wasn't for the fact that an age related to them is way clearer since that information is in the game and it actually hints something where for our current case, there isn't really anything but misinformation.

Team Rocket Grunt: It seems that you've had already somewhat of a problematic story with this user before so I suppose I shouldn't elaborate that much on explaining what's going on with this user so to put it briefly, this is a user who doesn't like to defend their point at the slightliest, they've always been reverting edits only because they disagree with previous edits and is someone who likes to assume that what they think is correct is a fact. But there's definitely something that you may not know and sums up this entire case perfectly.

A Staff Member from the Editorial Board, glik, declined Inkster's assumption on the player characters being either ten or eleven year olds, explicitly mentioning that their source DOESN'T CONFIRM ANYTHING, Team Rocket Grunt had the audacity to revert glik's edit so that it can have Inkster's original edit that includes the 10/11 year old age. By the way, when Inkster removed Rei's/Akari's age from their respective articles, they, being completely self-aware (since I have discussed with them previously) wrote "This was declined from both articles by a bereaucrat who has stated twice that the dialogue listed does not confirm anything." I am out of words, I apologize in advance for the trouble that something like an age has unleashed, I really find this whole situation completely ridiculous but I hope you take actions on this, you're the only one who I can recur to at this point.--Kynn (talk) 01:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Regarding player character ages, some people (while not officially correctly) will assume a player character's age based on how they look or what else they have heard about the character. For example, May in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald looks like she is 7 years old to me, and another example being Lucas from Platinum seems 10 or 11.

That said, there are a few players with officially confirmed ages; Red is 11 and Elio/Selene is also 11 as stated in Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon. Mario60866 (talk) 18:13, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

RSE May looks exactly the same as her anime counterpart (who is confirmed to be 10 there)... Sure, we don't know RSE May's exact age, but I have no idea why you believe she looks to be 7 years old, especially since there are clearly children that are shorter than her in RSE. 10/11 is very much a believable age range for her.
Additionally, Red's age appears to be somewhat debatable. He's stated to be 11 in the American instruction manual, yet he's stated to be 10 in the European instruction manual instead; I'm not sure if his age has ever been stated in Japan (but it would certainly be the most accurate age if it was).
In any case, I do kinda agree that the magazine shouldn't really be used as decisive proof of the ages for the protagonists (especially since Brendan/May are now listed with conflicting ages). PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 19:27, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
I'm late, but honestly we shouldn't take 'it looks like it was (a certain age)'as an official age, under that logic I would say that, for example, Calem and Serena look like if they were 17 but their manga counterparts are 5 years younger than that, I'm pretty sure no one, except for the users I mentioned, think that 10/11 is a confirmed age for those characters, it just spreads misinformation because you're making others think that they actually have a confirmed age when they clearly don't.
I honestly don't know how this is still an issue considering that glik clearly denied the information they keep adding so Force Fire, if you're reading this, I kindly ask that those characters' articles don't show any age, at least until there's a consensus about the situation. - unsigned comment from Kynn (talkcontribs)
Thought I'd make it clear that I blocked you on the grounds of the passive aggressive edits you made, and not whether I agree or disagree with the addition of the ages. I can see why Inkster and TRG would think the quote hints at the ages of pre-Gen V protagonists, yet the wording does seem to be too generalized and the two seem a little too eager to say Sugimori's referring to those characters specifically. So, I also don't think it counts as confirmation, wording is too generalized to make a judgement on the pre-Gen V protagonist's ages.--ForceFire 04:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Don't worry about it, as I wrote it on my talkpage, I felt that I had to take that route because it seemed like if no-one was actually checking CharacterDex frequently and I couldn't have known otherwise if I didn't do those edits, the edit war was just very evident to me so I found weird that very few users noticed it. Again, I want to apologize if my edits seemed rude from my part, I'll make sure to remove the age from those articles and I hope that next time there'll be a proper discussion related to these kind of topics before adding them to articles.--Kyn ~ 14:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Just so you know, that interview was from when Gen V released and showed the previous protagonists, so it was obvious that Sugimori referred to games prior to Gen V. Inkster (talk) 14:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Listen, I'm pretty sure you actually had no bad intentions on researching information for those articles but I feel like you should've contacted someone else before adding it and causing so much trouble. - unsigned comment from Kynn (talkcontribs)
Inkster, do you have proof that the book showed previous protagonists in relation to that quote, or are you saying that because Dr. Lava put stock images of the previous protagonists on their article? If it's the latter, then... that's clearly not indicative of the content of the book. It's not like that image is scanned directly from the book itself. You're far too eager to put a number to a character without taking the context of the quote. The quote seemed more a general "we were told to make them older than what we usually do" not "we were told to make the protagonists older that the previous ones, who are 10-11".--ForceFire 14:58, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
With you logic, than wouldn't that mean the protagonists are usually 10 or 11 years old? Inkster (talk) 15:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
It's a generic statement, not an explicit one.--ForceFire 15:05, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
The player character article sourced that interview in that context that the quote implies the protagonists are usually 10 or 11 ("They are usually 10 or 11 years old"). Inkster (talk) 15:13, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
The exact quote is Sugimori: “So this time we received orders from Masuda to increase the ages of Black & White’s protagonists, to make them older than the 10 or 11 year olds we used in previous games.”. It does refer to the previous protagonists. I don't believe we, as a wiki, are supposed to decide what age of a character is more correct or not. I think we should just put all the factual data on the page and let the readers interpret however they want, that's how we won't ever spread any misinformation. Saying we know nothing isn't accurate if we there exist such quote.--Rocket Grunt 15:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Exactly because this is a wiki, there shouldn't be added any information that suggests interpretation and it's not factual, it's just a generalization rather than a confirmed age, I'm aware that a bulbapedia guideline wants to have the most amount of information in the articles as possible but that doesn't mean that every single quote made by GAME FREAK should be added on an article, it has to be relevant if there should be one. - unsigned comment from Kynn (talkcontribs)
But wouldn't that Sugimori said be relevant? Inkster (talk) 15:43, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
The way I see it is that, if information that is actually in a game isn't going to be considered then it has way less sense to add such a quote like this one and yes, I'm referring to Rei's and Akari's articles, as I wrote I'm fine with those not showing an age but why wouldn't they show the age that they hinted in the actual game but those other characters' articles do show an age when its source is far more recherche. - unsigned comment from Kynn (talkcontribs)
Also, I still think that the quote berely confirms something--Kyn ~ 15:57, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I tried to edit May's page because even if she ain't seven like I think for RSE she has to be at least 10 but clearly isn't 12. ORAS May looks like she has actually gone through puberty a little but RSE May looks like she is still very young, like under 11. Mario60866 (talk) 02:59, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

It has already been explained to you that appearances do no matter when it comes to confirming the ages of characters. Only textual evidence or confirmation from an official source can be used to determine the age of characters. Landfish7 03:04, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
So, I think we can bring back Sugimori's quote about protagonists' age. Kynn doesn't think we can use information outside the games, but that's not how it's done here.--Rocket Grunt 12:04, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
The quote doesn't say that all of the previous protagonists were 10 or 11. Additionally, Brendan/May's age in ORAS contradicts this quote as well. Even if those remakes came out after this quote, it seems strange to list two different ages for what is basically the same game. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 12:17, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Pokemon universe doesn't have consistent timeline nor character ages. It's fine if character has two different ages depending on the game, especially in case of ORAS which is implied to be from different timeline. Again, we DO NOT decide what's canon and what's not, we just get all the information and present it to the readers. And the quote does talk about all previous protagonists.--Rocket Grunt 11:26, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
"And the quote does talk about all previous protagonists."
This is just how you're choosing to interpret it. Saying "The 10 or 11 year olds we used in previous games" is not the same as saying "the 10 or 11 year olds we used in all of the previous games (if it was the latter, I would agree with you). For all we know, he was referring to Red/Leaf (who are confirmed to be 10/11) and the Gen 2 and/or 4 protagonists. The quote is up for interpretation, which is why it can't be used as solid evidence. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Precisely, it's a vague, generalized quote that doesn't go into specific. Again, users are all too eager to add a number whenever it shows up.--ForceFire 06:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
The most straightforward interpretation is that they all were 10 or 11. His whole comment wouldn't make sense if it's not the first time they changed the age of the protagonits. Ignoring it is not a good way to deal with it. His quote still should be mentioned in the age section of these character's infoboxes.--Rocket Grunt 10:25, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
"The most straightforward interpretation is that they all were 10 or 11."
A straightforward interpretation is still an interpretation.
"His whole comment wouldn't make sense if it's not the first time they changed the age of the protagonits."
Again, it's really more of a generalization. Maybe Brendan/May were 12, but the other protagonists were 10/11, in which case the quote would still make sense; 12 would not make them significantly older than the other protagonists. Hilbert/Hilda being 14/15 is far more noticeable, hence why he noted it in the first place. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 11:16, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
You're forgetting that I never originally added what he said to Brendan/May's articles, as they were already confirmed to be 12.Inkster (talk) 23:55, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
And by "confirmed" I mean retconned. Inkster (talk) 23:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

A "retcon" for what already seemed to be mostly a generalization (again, he never said all of the prior protagonists were 10/11) feels more like that statement shouldn't be taken entirely at face value. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 00:16, 19 June 2022 (UTC) (resetting indent) I never said that, he only said "older than the 10 or 11 year-olds we used in previous games" (note this interview was from when Gen V released), which suggests the Gen II and IV PCs were also within that age range. Inkster (talk) 00:24, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm aware of when the interview took place and I did I mention above that this was a possibility, yes. I was mainly stating that I'm not comfortable with listing the statement as hard confirmation of their ages. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 00:42, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
If it isn't considered hard confirmation, is there anything against listing them as "about 10/11"? Inkster (talk) 01:21, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
PokemonMasterJamal3: Brendan and May weren't stated to be 12 at that time. I'm not saying you're supposed to believe in 100% they are that age, I'm saying it has to be noted that they all were described to be that age, otherwise it's dictating what people should think and gatekeeping the information.--Rocket Grunt 22:08, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
The word "all" was never stated by Sugimori, which is what I'm trying to emphasize here. I'm not stating the info is useless or anything, I'm just saying I don't think it's concrete enough to list as their ages. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 23:06, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Bottom line, ForceFire declined it, so they had the final word on this matter. It doesn't confirm anything and that's final. Inkster (talk) 23:35, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
It's still the straightforward sense of this sentence, he would need to add exeptions if he wanted us to know it's not about all of them. Adding the age to the page doesn't make it universal fact it just means they were meant to be that age at some point, different games still could retcon the age multiple times. I just want us to report all what we know and not gatekeep information.--Rocket Grunt 17:19, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

New Pokemon Infobox

Since we have a few new Pokemon today, I have an opportunity to make a suggestion. When a new Pokemon is revealed we don't know a lot of information about it which makes the infoboxes full of "Unknown" labels and the navbox on the top of the page is completely useless. I think it could be better to have a simplified version of these infoboxes to show what we know and what we're supposed to know. I made an example here: [6]. I think it would look more professional and complete and also, it would help keep track of all revealed Pokemon and connect their pages for better navigation, because the page "List of Pokemon by national dex" is protected, rarely updated, and it doesn't show images.--Rocket Grunt 16:04, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Saw it when it was made. Instantly didn't think it was necessary. No need to fix what isn't broken. There being "unknown" in the infobox is something that can't be helped when there's new Pokemon. Same with the navbox being "useless", that's just natural for a new Pokemon article to not have much. There's also no need to have the other new Pokemon shown in the navbox, it just clogs up the article and makes it look unsightly. If people wanted to know what the other new Pokemon are, they can, you know, browse the site.--ForceFire 16:13, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
Nonetheless, I hope the staff will like this idea and not disregard it instantly.--Rocket Grunt 16:19, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Legendary Pokémon template

Can you fix your edit to the Legendary Pokémon template so a line is separating gen 8 and gen 9?--Reinhartmax (talk) 17:11, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Image debuts

Lusamine, Gladion, Mohn, and Professor Magnolia were all listed as picture debuts for those respective episodes, and the episodes where they physically debuted (or in Mohn's case, first appeared in a flashback) were also listed as in person debuts. There are probably more examples of this, too. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 15:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

While the anime manual of style only notes Pokemon, I think it makes sense to count human characters in the rule as well.--ForceFire 15:28, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
What's the ruling on flashbacks? PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 15:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Additionally, what's the ruling on fantasy appearances? Professor Cerise's first appearance is listed as JN001 on his page, even though it was only a fantasy appearance. PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 15:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
I think it's a similar ruling to Pokemon (even though it's not written down), fantasies don't count as debuts while flashbacks do (and the debut would probably count twice, once for the flashback and once for the in-person appearance).--ForceFire 15:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Since it's a somewhat relevant topic, I posted something about Champion appearances a while back. Do you have an opinion on this? PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 16:04, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
That category should only count physical appearance, imo. Having fantasies/flashbacks/photos count feels like it's just bloating the category with minor appearances (though one could argue there are important flashbacks that drive the plot, so that's probably something to consider).--ForceFire 06:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

MinnieG again

I've posted about them before, but MinnieG's edits are starting to become a bit of an issue.

They usually contain some mixture of:

  1. Poor grammar/awkward wording (which will often overwrite perfectly fine edits prior to it). It doesn't help that these tend to be fairly lengthy edits.
  2. A tendency to focus too heavily on generic character relationship aspects, such as saying that a protagonist is protective/supportive of their friends... which is a trait that every single protagonist shares (making it far from unique).
  3. Related to point 2, most of their edits in the "Character" section of protagonists' pages are almost exactly the same structure-wise. For example:

"Lillie at times has shown to lose her composure when pushed into a wall, becoming depresses and unsure of herself. However, Lillie manages to pick herself back up through her friends support and encouragement, which inspired her to not give up. This is shown when she decided to put an end to her fear of touching Pokémon in Mission: Total Recall! and perfecting Subzero Slammer with Snowy in Chasing Memories, Creating Dreams! because of her resolve."

"In addition, Mallow has shown to lose her composer when pushed to the side, as she would doubt herself. However, Mallow would pick herself back up through the help of her friends. This is shown when made a meal for Tapu Koko while working at Oranguru's place in A Recipe for Success! and perfected Bloom Doom with Tsarrena during her battle with Lana at the Alola Pokémon League in Battling Besties! because of her resolve." PokemonMasterJamal3 (talk) 20:34, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

MinnieG's a user that I've kept an eye on from time to time, the way they edit is quite familiar, but I unfortunately can't do a check on them. Their repetitive edits can seem jarring, and really the only way they can stop is if the improve on their grammar, make better judgement on what is notable, and be a bit more creative with their sentences.--ForceFire 06:13, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Deletion of "Old Verses"

I explained it on Anzasquiddles's talk page, but you think that redirect is fine. If yes, then why? Redirects for plurals are discouraged because of the way MediaWiki links work: [[Old Verse]]s gives Old Verses. --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 08:39, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Since when has redirects for plurals been discouraged? We have moves and signature moves and abilities and plenty others. Landfish7 08:50, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Some exist (and are encouraged) due to irregular plurals, such as abilities (singular is ability, note the change: -y → -ie- + -s), but you might think the moves and signature moves redirects exist rather for search reasons? --Bfdifan2006 (T/C) 09:01, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Yes, plural links are good for search purposes. There is more than one Old Verse, so people are likely to search "Old Verses" searching for information about the Old Verse Key Items. And for irregular plurals, we have link templates for many of those such as Berries and Abilities. But we still have a redirect because it is useful for search purposes. Landfish7 09:13, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Mega Anime Move Boxes

I was wondering if we could create a seperate anime move box for Pokemon in the anime that have mega evolved like we have for those who use Z-Moves, Dynamax and Gygantamax, for example

Ash Mega Lucario Double Team.png
Using Double Team
Move First Used In
Aura Sphere A Battle of Mega Versus Max!
Force Palm A Battle of Mega Versus Max!
Steel Beam A Battle of Mega Versus Max!
Double Team JN108
A shows that the move was used recently, unless all moves fit this case or there are fewer than five known moves.

--BigDocFan (talk) 07:57, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

With Z-moves and Dynamax moves, they are completely different moves with completely different gimmicks. Whereas the moves Mega Evolutions use are just the same regular moves. So I don't see a need to duplicate the same info.--ForceFire 08:00, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
While I understand that, Ash-Greninja has its moves listed in a separate box. So could the same possibly apply to Mega Evolutions? Moreover, with Mega Evolutions, the template could show off the user's changed type. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:06, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't think Ash-Greninja needs its own move box either. And I don't think showcasing changes in typing would be enough to justify the duplicate information. Landfish7 06:04, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Never noticed Ash-Greninja having its own template. I'm all for removing it due to it basically duplicating the same info as the regular form's move template. While showing a different form using a move is a good enough reason to split, I still think it's just duplicating the same info (different types also seem too minor to consider).--ForceFire 06:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Infernape Fire Punch

Fair enough on the previous point, just to verify, can we say for sure that Infernape definitely used Fire Punch whilst the other moves were unconfirmed?--BigDocFan (talk) 08:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, Fire Punch has a unique animation (I say that with certainty because I can't imagine another move that could be animated similarly, Comet Punch may be, but that has never been animated with flames).--ForceFire 09:43, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
In Pokémon Adventures, there was an instance of a Pokémon covering its fists with fire to attack without it using Fire Punch, so IMO, it could've been something similar and not a move at all. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 10:10, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Eh, I'm in the mindset of separating anime and manga. They're two different mediums that are far too different have one cancel out the other. And the unique move animation policy only covers anime (to be honest, manga never crossed my mind when I started that policy)--ForceFire 06:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Ignoring comments

I haven't heard anything from you about my last question about Lana's Lapras in about two weeks despite your obvious activity. What is the point of pushing for discussion if the higher ups are going to ignore them?--Rahl (talk) 11:53, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

There are 50+ sections on this talk page, with some being quite extensive, so it's pretty easy to miss smaller sections that are in between bigger sections like the Lana's Lapras section. For Lapras, don't think a consensus was given for Ride Pokemon at the time, but from what I can gather from Kiawe's Charizard (who was in the same boat), it was only mainspaced once it was clear that it was actually his Pokemon and not one owned by the whole family. So the same would go for Lapras, was it actually stated that it was a Pokemon she actually owns (thus would make it notable) or does her whole family own it. Again, you are just looking that the notability requirements and arbitrarily saying things are notable, without actually looking at the context/bigger picture.--ForceFire 06:25, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the response. I have no idea if it is owned by only her or the family, though wouldn't it still be considered Lana's regardless? And I am looking at the rules and trying to find what fits within them. Considering I keep 'missing the bigger picture' despite working on this wiki for a decade, I would say the rules are unclear or failing to convey what is actually needed for something to be mainspaced. Rahl (talk) 23:44, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
I think the point Force Fire is making is that an article fulfilling the bare minimum requirements for notability doesn't automatically make it good enough for the mainspace. As for you wanting more specific rules/criteria, each article is going to have its own unique context that needs to be accounted for. There is no number of rules or extra requirements that will work for every situation. All I can say is that generally an article should be substantial and interesting to read. If an article technically fits the requirements, but seems like it's missing important context that hasn't been revealed yet, or isn't interesting and engaging enough, it's probably not ready for the mainspace. Landfish7 05:42, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Precisely what Landfish said. You're just reading that a Pokemon needs to be owned by a main character/appear more than three times/do more than battling, without actually thinking about the specific situations that would make a Pokemon notable. What did the Pokemon do in its non battle episodes? Did it help its trainer? Did it solve a conflict? In Lapras's case, is it actually her Pokemon? We can't expand the criteria for every specific instance because each Pokemon is different and their reasons for being notable are going to be different each time. Yes, by just simply reading the notability requirements, Lapras would be notable for being owned by a main character. But the bigger context/picture is whether Lana actually owned the Lapras. Being owned by the family doesn't mean it's solely Lana's Pokemon, it's not like she took it everywhere like Kiawe did with his Charizard nor did it have a backstory revelaing who actually owns it.--ForceFire 06:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Carbink & Diancie's signature typing.

I can understand Toxicroak & Sneaseler, for example, but Diancie is literally a mutated Carbink. How are they not related enough for their unique typing to be trivia? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 19:57, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Because they are no related by evolution, period. So it's not unique to one Pokemon or one evolutionary line.--ForceFire 06:25, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
True, but they are related, period. It's not a coincidence that they share the same type, so it seems silly that we can't make an exception. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 14:39, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Oh, and before Ultra Necrozma, didn't [email protected] have this in their trivia, despite being 2 different Pokemon? Or am I remembering wrong? (I'm trying to check, but the website's being screwy again). ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 14:48, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
They may be related by lore, but they are still not related by evolution. You can't evolve a Carbink into a Diancie, and you can't breed Diancie to get Carbink. They are still treated as individual Pokemon. Thus, they are not related by evolution, making the trivia not unique to one Pokemon or evolutionary line.--ForceFire 06:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
The same goes for the [email protected] twins, but they had the unique type trivia. (at least I remember them having it; I'm still having trouble checking). Why did they get special treatment? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 15:27, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
I can assure you, [email protected] was never said to be the only Dragon/Psychic types. And even if it was, it was probably swiftly reverted, as these two edits from 2017 (the year Ultra Necrozma became a thing, and were the only two edits relating to their types throughout 2017) show. And it also shows that it was not reverted because of Ultra Necrozma, it was reverted because [email protected] are not related by evolution (they are related by lore, but are still treated as individual species with not evolutionary relations).
And this 2016 edits on the type combination article shows the [email protected] was never in the main template but in the trivia section with Solrock/Lunatone and Carbink/Diancie.--ForceFire 06:20, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Huh, I could've sworn it was for some reason. Very well then. I still think it should be added, but I can tell I'm not going to win this, so I'll leave it be. Good bye. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 17:38, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Exclusive pages for the 8 Masters/Champions

In view of the discussion with the Pokémon of some characters, I decided to ask this question before wasting unnecessary time. I'm working on a page of Lance and his story within the anime, trying to get away from what's on his main page (where it talks more technical details than what he actually did in the anime canon). It was close to what I was trying to do with Cynthia's page, which I left on a reserve page to work on later, but I would like to know if if I continued this and did it for the other Champions, what are the chances of this being approved and going for mainspace?

Theoretically, the only characters I need to do this would be Steven, Diantha and Lance (which is pretty much finished already), since Iris, Leon, Cynthia, Alain and Ash already have their pages. My intention was to hand it in after the tournament was over, but as apparently there's been some discussion about what's notable and what's not, I decided to ask at once. Should I go ahead with this or are the chances of being approved zero?--Hikaru Wazana (talk) 14:16, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Gender difference

While I can agree with your point regarding Meganium's gender difference, what about Gyarados? Paul's Gyarados, for example, had blue whiskers. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 14:39, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Read the Speculation policy, in Paul's Gyarados's case, the female variant of Gyarados has not appeared in the anime yet so we can't use its gender difference. Just because other gender differences have been acknowledged, doesn't immediately mean all of them are acknowledge, the anime needs to acknowledge each one of them. Raichu's gender difference wasn't even acknowledged, even when Tierno's Racihu had hhr gender confirmed.--ForceFire 14:46, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Wasn't sure if a female Gyarados had appeared yet. Thanks. --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 15:03, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Meganium's gender difference isn't based on length of the anthennas, but their shape. They clearly drew them in different way than previously. Oliver's Meganium has antennas pointing upwards.--Rocket Grunt 15:08, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Male Meganium's antennae are longer than the female, so yes, it's absolutely based off length. The shape is only like that because it's following the shape of the head, the female antennae does the same thing (it follows the shape of the head).--ForceFire 06:38, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
You know well it's not true.--Rocket Grunt 22:03, 19 June 2022 (UTC)


Could you not jump to your admin power and please start a discussion first? You know, the thing you preach that us lesser beings have to do? Both Infernape and Greninja are one of the heaviest focused Pokémon of their series and a category for their focused episode like any other important character makes sense. If someone else gets an Infernape-dumb argument but okay-then why not make the name “Ash’s Infernape” like I started with? Fixed your issue with it, right? Looking forward to your response!--Pikablu (talk) 14:40, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

I also want to add that reserving it for walking Pokémon is an odd cutoff. Togepi or Dedenne has hardly done anything compared to those two. Is this not worth taking another look at after a decade?--Pikablu (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
At one point, I made a category for episodes about Mimikyu, but came to kind of regret doing it later after seeing how little episodes it had. Could you remove it? --FinnishPokéFan92 (talk) 17:46, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
That helps prove my point. Mimikyu is a walking Pokémon with a small amount of focused episodes. What, like 5 compared to 20? Being a walking Pokémon isn’t the best way to determine these categories.Pikablu (talk) 17:50, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello? You undid my edits and I want to talk about it.--Pikablu (talk) 18:06, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

(resetting indent)If you want to suggest making new categories, you need to ask on a talk page. Don't just do as you please. And it was also once deleted before, so I deleted it again. We don't need categories for literally every Pokemon a characters owns, and the ones that you deem important were really only important for their own series, unlike Pikachu or Meowth who are basically main characters. I personally would restrict it even further to just those two, or maybe include Wobbfuffet just for how long its been around.--ForceFire 06:30, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

User:Great designer

User:Great designer has left a trace of many suspicious activities here in addition to manipulating puppet accounts. The user page contains some overt information on stalking and impersonating, which they have been doing since mid-February. There is also much evidence of their insulting and harassing other users and bureaucrats on social media with ad hominem attacks followed by long and opaque statements. The user claims to have sent an email and addressed some unspecified topics on 17 June 2020 (UTC). The message was left on User talk:DzaiSheng and User talk:Great designer, but no such email has been received as of now. This makes their latest activity very dubious. The eponymous account on 52Poké has been permanently banned since late April for repeated misuse and appropriation of contributions by others in and out of the site. Considering his wrongdoings on the sibling site and on social media, I would suggest keeping a close watch over what they vow to do next.DzaiSheng (talk) 09:35, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Add Page to template.


I made List of other event distributions (Generation IX), as the first distribution for Scarlet and Violet had just been announced. Can this page be added to Template:Event Pokémon? Also the Generation 4 GTS link on this template links to a redirect, if this can be corrected or the original page moved back to where it used to be. 4iamking (talk) 18:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Done.--ForceFire 18:13, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
You deleted the Generation 7 page from the template there.4iamking (talk) 18:17, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Oops, fixed.--ForceFire 18:22, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Pokémon in Russia

Would it be a good idea to hide the two latest revisions from Inkster on this article, since the vandalism is still present and visible there? Landfish7 18:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Oh and it's visible in your last revision too. Landfish7 18:17, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
Looks like Inkster didn't remove all of the vandal's edit in their undo edit, so my rollback of the vandal only removed what Inkster removed. I've hidden all the edits.--ForceFire 05:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)


Did you intend to make Volcanion's species page only editable by administrators? Landfish7 05:36, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Oh... um... oops. Fixed.--ForceFire 05:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)