Talk:Ultra Beast

Ultra Beast connection to Legendary

Should Ultra Beasts be count as a another class of Legendaries like Deity and Myhtical?--Jacob Kogan (talk) 23:29, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Personally, I think they should be legendary - they fit the definition - but it's not really my decision. I am discussing this currently on a different thread and the opinions on this site seem to be pretty divided. ----Celadonkey (talk) 23:46, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks fro letting me know. Nintendo sure knows how to make Pokemon interesting huh?--Jacob Kogan (talk) 23:49, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Nintendo doesn't make the games, GAMEFREAK does, but yes. ----Celadonkey (talk) 23:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Mythical Pokémon are not a class of Legendary Pokémon, they are an entirely separate group (although the distinction was not made in European languages until Generation V, it's always existed in Japanese). "Deity" is not a class of Legendary Pokémon; assuming you're referring to the guardian deities, there's no evidence that they are Legendary Pokémon. --SnorlaxMonster 07:06, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

There are new classifications in Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon: Legendaries and Sub-Legendaries. You can see this through the Pokedex and through the data of the game. The Totem Pokemon, Type: Null, Silvally, and around half the UBs are considered Sub-Legendaries. Zygarde, the Cosmog line, Necrozma, and Magearna are considered Legendary. --Lighthouse (talk) 02:21, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

If you're referring to the background colors in the Pokédex, those split the Pokémon up into groups, but they don't give names for those groups, so we can't claim they're "Legendaries and Sub-Legendaries". Meanwhile, Rotom makes special comments highlighting when you add a Legendary or a Mythical (they're not the same thing, and Magearna is the latter), but not for the things you're labeling as "Sub-Legendaries". Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 02:39, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Haven't dataminers found out a code called "sublegend" listing All non-box legendaries (Zygarde and Necrozma) and non-mythical pokemon? The list included Type:Null/Silvally, the Tapu, and UBs as well. I personally believe Mythical Pokemon are still considered "Legendary", and the fact that Magearna shares the same color in the PokeDex as the Cosmog line, Necrozma, and Zygarde kind of says something. Though that there is just speculation, the sublegendary thing were from codes. --Lighthouse (talk) 08:01, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

We know definitively that Mythical Pokémon are not Legendary Pokémon. It's incredibly clear from the fact that official sources specifically say "Mythical and Legendary Pokémon" whenever they want to refer to both at once.

This seems to be the origin of "sublegendary". To me, it looks like the dataminers just invented a name for to group of Legendary Pokémon that are not Special Pokémon, which are flagged as such by the game; I see no evidence that the name comes from the games themselves. However, it does indicate that the game considers Ultra Beasts and the tapu to be in the same category as non-Special Legendary Pokémon (at least for tournament restriction purposes, and presumably is the same set of flags used by the GTS filter). --SnorlaxMonster 08:43, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Also, it looks like "sub-legendary" is an older fan term that either refers to non-Special Legendary Pokémon ([1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]), or to pseudo-legendary Pokémon ([9] [10] [11]). I hadn't heard it before, so I don't think it's a particularly common term. --SnorlaxMonster 09:21, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I know I'm kinda late to the topic but if cosmog along with iy entire lines are UB and they are considered legendary wouldn't that make the other UBs legendary? - unsigned comment from Badwolf1234 (talk • contribs)

Cosmog and its evolutions are not confirmed to be UBs; while the Aether Foundation suspects Cosmog is an Ultra Beast, there is no other evidence that the Cosmog line are Ultra Beasts, and Cosmog's evolutions do not have an increased catch rate in a Beast Ball. Likewise, even if they are Ultra Beasts, there's no reason there cannot be some Legendary and some non-Legendary Ultra Beasts, like how there are some Legendary and some non-Legendary Fire-type Pokémon. --SnorlaxMonster 01:51, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Cosmog, UB or no?

There appears to be conflicting information on this. In game text states that Cosmog's line are theorized to be ultra beasts, but they lack many of the characteristics unique to the group. Should Cosmog's line be listed here, or at least mentioned as possibly being connected? Lyriq (talk) 00:12, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I think it still should be as it has Property related to the Ultra Beast like the energy that powers upUltra Beast and Totem Pokemon, they fact its Pokedex entry and the Legends said it came from another World, Ultra Space. and the fact and it can Ultra Portals just like the Ultra Beast. A connection--Jacob Kogan (talk) 00:28, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

The auras don't necessarily make a Pokemon an Ultra Beast-none of the totem Pokemon are considered Ultra Beasts-and Cosmog was never shown to have an aura. The fact that it's from another world does give some weight to the idea, but it only says it's from another world-it never said it was from Ultra Space. (unless I'm forgetting something said in Ultra Space-I'm fairly certain I'm not, though) And the Ultra Beasts were never shown to be able to open the Ultra Wormhole-that's sort of why they're lashing out, because they don't know how to get back. TechSkylander1518 (talk) 00:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

And yet the Aether Foundation said its a Ultra Beast. What was their reason and proof that it was an Ultra Beast and remember that Alternative World that was introduce in the games.--Jacob Kogan (talk) 01:59, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

You'll have to jog my memory there, I don't recall any point in which the Aether Foundation referred to Cosmog as an Ultra Beast. If they had, I'm pretty sure the debate would have been settled much sooner. And it's not like it's impossible to add multiple alternate universes in one generation-Gen 4 had the Distortion World and the first references to the Ghost World in the games. TechSkylander1518 (talk) 02:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

In Aether Paradise B2F, there si alan with he Notes of Cosmog, one of them mentions its an Ultra Beast--Jacob Kogan (talk) 02:31, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

That file says Cosmog is hypothesized to be a type of Ultra Beast that hails from another dimension. The key word here is hypothesized-even the Aether Foundation is just speculating. TechSkylander1518 (talk) 02:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

The developers had to have included that line for a reason, though. It seems to me that we should at least include a note to the effect of The Aether Foundation hypothesizes Cosmog to be a type of Ultra Beast, even if it's only in the trivia section. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 05:19, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I'm definitely not opposed to including that line as trivia, I just don't think it should be taken as confirmation that Cosmog is an Ultra Beast. TechSkylander1518 (talk) 05:38, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

That sounds fair to me, let's do that--Jacob Kogan (talk) 05:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

They also hypothesized that Cosmog is an Ultra Beast from Ultra Space, due to its ability to create Ultra Wormholes. is already on the page. --Abcboy (talk) 05:54, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Master Ball

So, the Ultra Beasts ignore any non-Beast Ball's enhanced catch rate multiplier, right? Does this mean they can break out of Master Balls? And if so, should this be noted in the article? - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 03:41, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Even though the Ultra Beasts ignore any non-Beast Ball's enhanced catch rate multiplier the Master Ball never fails to catch one. I tested this theory by hacking in Master Balls and it never failed to catch an Ultra Beast. Lolo0912 (talk) 02:04, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Ultra Beast AI. Smarter?

I find that they are quite smarter than most opponents with their attacks. Here's my experiences:

• Nihilego only used Power Gem against me; never used any other attacks.

• Buzzwole only used Lunge on my Haunter because it was immune to its other attacks (at least until it ran out of PP)

• Buzzwole always used either DynamicPunch or Hammer Arm on my Snorlax; never Lunge or Counter. (This was probably random, I admit).

• Xurkitree only used Power Whip against my Zygarde, never Discharge

• Kartana always used X-Scissor or Detect against my own Kartana, never Leaf Blade or Air Slash.

Can someone else please confirm or debunk this? Unowninator (talk) 23:24, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

I can confirm it...for everything. Especially trainers. I don't think there's anything special for UB's but every trainer I've faces with a super effective move used it and only it. ----Celadonkey (talk) 00:26, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Totem Pokémon work the same way, only using the most effective moves. I would be careful calling it "smarter" though; I find it far easier to manipulate, since the moves they choose are usually easy to predict based on your active Pokémon. --SnorlaxMonster 04:12, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't know if this means anything, but I just fought an NPC with a Ditto while training my Gabite; after it transformed into my Gabite, it used Iron Head (my Gabite also had Outrage & Dual Chop), which IMO confrims at least that UBs are smarter than regular trainers. Unowninator (talk) 01:29, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

NPCs in general have always been using smarter moves against me. I don't think it means anything - just luck. To confirm anything one would have to look at the code of the game. ----Celadonkey (talk) 02:32, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Similar movesets

Is it really necessary to have a Similar movesets section on the page? I know it's probably there to follow precedent, but none of them learn the same move at the same level. And even the moves that more than one of them learn aren't learned at similar levels (e.g. Ingrain for Xurkitree at level 18 and for Celesteela at the start). Could we at least rename the section if not remove it entirely? slimey01 00:07, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree with this. It just clutters up the page. ----Celadonkey 02:40, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I agree as well as the only similarity is that they learn a new move at the same level which can easily be stated in a sentance and doesn't need an entire table. --Raltseye prata med mej 08:29, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Seven sins

Is it just me or do the UBs seem to be based on the Seven deadly sins?

• Nihilego: envy - something something fusion with Lusamine
• Buzzwole: pride - buff and all
• Pheromosa: lust - although its antennae (and its appearance in general) creep me out, this seems only logical due to its pose
• Celesteela: sloth - heavy and slow?
• Kartana: wrath - dude seems kinda angry pointing out that sword all the time
• Guzzlord: gluttony - heck, even its codename is the same
• Xurkitree: greed - not that fitting, but the only one left out

Thoughts? --DJWolfy-- 00:11, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Intriguing, but I'm not 100% convinced. Although its Pokedex entry says Xurkitree raided a power plant, which could possibly associate w/ greed, but still, not 100% convinced. I'm also not really qualified to decide; just stating my opinion. ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 01:02, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

This is entirely speculation, and only vaguely suggestive speculation at that. It's barely convincing at all, and for us to include it, it would need to be not just convincing but officially stated. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 01:36, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to convince anyone, but I was a bit surprised no one brought it up by now because it does seem a tiny bit they have some sort of connection. Guess it might just be my imagination running wild. --DJWolfy-- 17:06, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with that. Though, just to note, people have been posting this theory around the internet for some time. Honestly, it's pretty flimsy, as you can easily attribute most of the UBs to several Sins (for example, Buzzwole is super strong, thus it can also be Wrath; it also drains energy, which can be Gluttony/Greed). That being said, it's still just speculation. Ataro (talk) 20:29, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Catch rate multiplier

According to this page, any ball other than the Beast Ball and Master Ball has a x1 catch rate against an Ultra Beast, which should in turn mean that regular Poké Balls are no less effective than usual. Which should, in turn, translate to Kartana being as easy to catch as Rattata, in theory. And yet, when I went to test out this theory in Sun, I wasted dozens of Poké Balls on a weakened Kartana. I forget how low I got its health, but it was definitely in the yellow. I might be misunderstanding how catch rates work here, but something with a catch rate of 255 with its HP in the yellow basically can't break out of anything, barring possibly a Heavy Ball if it's really light, or something. Assuming I'm not wildly mistaken about my understanding of a catch rate of 255, either this page is wrong in how the catch rates of Poké Balls are affected against Ultra Beasts, or Kartana's page gives an incorrect catch rate. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 00:53, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

I and a person who actually knows what she's talking about have both come to similar conclusions. I don't think anyone's taken a second look at the capture routines to determine this for certain, but it definitely looks like 0.1x. -- Umbee (talk) 05:08, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

That would make a lot more sense, and it would definitely explain Kartana being so frustrating to catch without Beast Balls despite the 255 catch rate. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 05:13, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Maybe the catch rate's wrong? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 15:19, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

I was thinking that could be a possibility, but this tumblr post Umbee linked to, it makes a lot of sense, apparently Kartana's not the only Ultra Beast people have struggled more against than what the catch rate would suggest. - unsigned comment from Missingno. Master (talk • contribs) 18:49, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Unlock?

Can this article be unlock after the latest episode aired or wait until the release of Ultra Sun and Moon? Singaporean (talk) 11:13, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

It is locked until USUM as a precautionary measure against speculation. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 16:44, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

I see. But could you tell Admin to add the section of In the anime since the latest episode had mentioned them about it. Singaporean (talk) 10:18, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

No longer accurate trivia

The first bit of trivia says that "The Ultra Beasts who share the same code number share at least one type, and are the only Ultra Beasts that share any types." Since UB Adhesive was introduced and UB Assembly's typing was revealed, that last bit of trivia is no longer accurate since they shares types with UB-01 Symbiont, UB-04 Blaster, and UB-04 Blade. Can someone who can edit this page update this, please? --PKMNAdventurer (talk) 21:04, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Anime confirms everything?

In SM044 Burnet say that's a high chance to Cosmog being an Ultra Beasts and also Lusamine says that Solgaleo and Lunala are Ultra Beasts registred in the past so Cosmog line are Ultra Beasts and the Ultra Beasts are legendary. Pika fanatic (talk) October 6 2017, 17:49 (UTC)Pika fanatic 17:50, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

They said Solgaleo and Lunala are Ultra Beasts spoken in legend, hence they are legendary. they did not say anything about the others being legendary. this page should at least mention how Solgaleo and Lunala (and Cosmog and Cosmoem) is connected to the Ultra Beast, since both the anime and games imply that they are Ultra Beast, or at least related to them. -Pokeant (talk) 10:57, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, like Pokeant said, I don't think you can go from "Solgaleo and Lunala are UBs" to "all UBs are legendary".

If there is a direct quote saying that yes, Cosmog is 100% a UB when the episode gets dubbed in English, then yeah, I think that's reason to add it, but until then, I don't think so. --Celadonkey 14:12, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

UB already have ten do not include Cosmog line and Necrozma. They (UB) can have their own independent classification. E9310103838 (talk) 15:29, 8 October 2017 (UTC)