- Archive 1 (discussions from July 3, 2007–October 9, 2008)
Quick note, at the top of the page it still says 6 tiers when there's only 4. Mr. Black 09:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I have a lot of experience Competitive Battling, in both OU and UU environments. Please take my suggestions into consideration. I am most concerned with the difference between certain Pokémon as UU or higher.
Tentacruel needs to move up, out of UU. It is too good for UU, a powerful Special wall with a nice SPD and SpA stat to back it up. It's very difficult for a UU to KO Tentacruel with Special, much like it's near impossible for an OU to KO a Blissey with Special. However a Blissey-like Pokémon in UU is not desirable, the common counter for Blissey being mixed sweepers and mixed sweepers being rare and considerably weaker in UU. And the fact that it outclasses basically every other potential UU special wall warrants its promotion out of UU. Some sites put it at OU, I personally would say BL, either way I don't mind but it should not stay in UU.
I have a huge list of BLs that should be UU, so please bear with me. With all of these I am not saying they suck, if it sounds that way don't take it that way, I'm just saying how they fit into UU.
Aggron, Articuno, Bastiodon, Blastoise, Blaziken, Cloyster, Dewgong, Drifblim, Exeggutor, Golduck, Golem, Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Kabutops, Kingler, Lanturn, Lapras, Nidoking, Ninetales, Omastar, Probopass, Walrein.
Tbh, I have no idea why half of these are in the BL list. I'll start with these - Aggron, Probopass and Bastiodon. Their unfortunate type combination makes them 4x weak to Ground and Fighting, two of the most predominant physical attacking types. Consider that many physical attackers carry either Close Combat or Earthquake, or in absence of Close Combat, Brick Break or Superpower, and any of these moves is an almost guaranteed OHKO. This hurts even more when the 3 Pokémon's stats basically only allow them to work as physical walls or physical tanks.
Lanturn, Nidoking, Omastar, Dewgong, Kingler, Golduck and Golem I hope I don't have to explain. I will make a quick note that it makes no sense for Nidoking to be BL when Nidoqueen is UU, considering Nidoqueen is widely considered better and actually gets used occasionally.
Omastar and Kabutops fall under the same category so I'll explain them next. Again, their weakness to Fighting AND Ground hurts, but it doesn't help that they're also weak to Electric which is possibly the most common special attacking type along with Ice. They have potential as Rain Dance sweepers, yes, but that's about it since they're both certainly not doing any physical walling with their only other good stat, due to the aforementioned weaknesses in the physical area.
Cloyster has huge DEF but no reliable recovery move and not enough HP to support it. It is a DEF wall, but nothing too strong for UU like Bronzong or Skarmory. And once again, it's weakness to Fighting damages its capability a bit, as well as weakness to Rock this time which is just as common a physical type and, gives 1/4 HP damage from Stealth Rock.
Walrein and Lapras both have good stats all round but don't excel in anything. Well, Walrein excels at tanking in Hail, but that requires continuous hail which is only possible in UU by Snover. Both Pokémon have a weakness to Rock, Fighting and Electric, very common attacking types on the physical and special end of the spectrum, and they take 1/4 HP from Stealth Rock. They also lacking a reliable recovery move to support their wall stats.
Being Legendary, one would immediately call me insane to put Articuno in UU. But actually look at Articuno, think about it, and you'll realise. Straight off it has a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. Its offensive movepool is tiny - the special end conisisting entirely of Ice Beam/Blizzard, Air Cutter, Hidden Power, Signal Beam and Extrasensory (from XD). The physical end is equally pathetic if not more so, with only Aerial Ace or Ice Shard for STAB then U-Turn and Return. It's supportive capabilities are slightly more promising, with Reflect, Light Screen, Haze and Heal Bell (last two from XD). With Roost, that's seriously all it can do, or Toxistall. Not very threatening.
I'd say more but I've written enough for now. Maybe later. Please take what I've said into consideration. Mr. Black 07:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
OK I've got some more to say. What on Earth is Claydol doing in OU. It can drop down to UU no problem - UUs can handle it, it's defensive but not overly so due to poor HP, and it is nowhere near good enough for OU. It lacks a reliable recovery move and has an Ice weakness. It doesn't shine as a special attacker and it doesn't have a big enough DEF & HP combined for Calm Mind without reliable recovery.
I'll write a nice big post about why Garchomp is Uber soon.
Not that it honestly matters, but Sudowoodo and Bibarel can safely move up to UU. Sudowoodo is actually quite a decent UU with some unique options, while Bibarel has access to Curse now and it can seriously become quite threatening. For example, it can get both defensive stats at 450+ after one use of Curse and one use of Amnesia, which also raises ATK to 400+. Waterfall/Return combination has never looked better when both get STAB, with only Empoleon resisting both. Mr. Black 08:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)