Difference between revisions of "Talk:Rollout (move)"

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(→‎Defense Curl: no, the rollout boost of def curl cannot be baton passed)
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If Defense Curl is used and Baton Pass is used, the effect of Rollout is still enhanced, yes? [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#DAA520"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#C0C0C0"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 22:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 
If Defense Curl is used and Baton Pass is used, the effect of Rollout is still enhanced, yes? [[User:Ht14|<span style="color:#DAA520"><sup>'''''ht'''''</sup></span>]][[User talk:Ht14|<span style="color:#C0C0C0"><small>''14''</small></span>]] 22:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
== Base Power After x Moves ==
  +
  +
This page seems a bit underlooked. There have already been several discussions about the power of rollout after x moves. The behaviour shown on the page seems wildly unlikely.
  +
  +
Here is some data without defense curl after a certain number of moves as the page says (x2 every turn from 30):
  +
* 1 - 30
  +
* 2 - 60
  +
* 3 - 120
  +
* 4 - 240
  +
* 5 - 480
  +
  +
  +
Here is some data with defense curl after a certain number of moves as the page says (x2 every turn from 2x30):
  +
* 1 - 60
  +
* 2 - 120
  +
* 3 - 240
  +
* 4 - 480
  +
* 5 - 960
  +
  +
My theory: the page is wrong and the power doesn't double each successful hit, it adds 30 to the power each successful hit.
  +
  +
With my theory without defense curl (y=30+30x):
  +
* 1 - 30
  +
* 2 - 60
  +
* 3 - 90
  +
* 4 - 120
  +
* 5 - 150
  +
  +
With my theory with defense curl [y=(2x30)+30x]:
  +
* 1 - 60
  +
* 2 - 90
  +
* 3 - 120
  +
* 4 - 150
  +
* 5 - 180
  +
  +
With my theory with defense curl [y=2(30+30x)]:
  +
* 1 - 60
  +
* 2 - 90
  +
* 3 - 180
  +
* 4 - 240
  +
* 5 - 300
  +
  +
With the BEDMAS I used above, I realised that the page doesn't state whether the base power or the total power is doubled (which is irrelevant in the clearly wrong information on the page).
  +
  +
Let's compare how balanced the power of the fifth successful strike is. First we should look at the probability of getting this far to show the relevance the figure. For this we will exclude any variables that will stop the strikes from being unsuccessful other than their base power (such as a protect move, disable, forced switchout, fainting, running out of pokemon etc.). The probability of the fifth strike hitting is
  +
(1-0.9)(1-0.9^2)(1-0.9^3)(1-(0.9^4))*0.9^5 = x
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I will finish this in the morning, but my conclusion will be that 480 and 960 power are ridiculously untrue, 180 is underpowered and given the probability and the amount of turns used (six), 150& 300 are balanced and quite likely the case.
  +
  +
I'm worried nobody will see this and it will rot with the page continuing to be wrong, so if there is no response tomorrow, I will fix the page and hopefully that'll get someone's attention. Thanks [[User:Pokepro97|Pokepro97]] ([[User talk:Pokepro97|talk]]) 16:59, 13 April 2014 (UTC).

Revision as of 16:59, 13 April 2014

Defense Curl

So if a Pokémon uses Defense curl then rollout, on the fifth turn the attack will have a base power of 960? That seems kinda high. Derian 18:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering about this too. Even without defense curl, the 5th turn has a power of 480. That seems a bit ridiculous. --Legollama 20:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
According to a question and answer on PokeBase, the rollout-boosting effect of defense curl is not baton passed, so apparently not. The answer doesn't include any details on how they performed the test, but I'm guessing based on the date that it was most likely in a 5th gen game. Grumbledwarfskin (talk) 01:02, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Baton Pass

If Defense Curl is used and Baton Pass is used, the effect of Rollout is still enhanced, yes? ht14 22:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Base Power After x Moves

This page seems a bit underlooked. There have already been several discussions about the power of rollout after x moves. The behaviour shown on the page seems wildly unlikely.

Here is some data without defense curl after a certain number of moves as the page says (x2 every turn from 30):

  • 1 - 30
  • 2 - 60
  • 3 - 120
  • 4 - 240
  • 5 - 480


Here is some data with defense curl after a certain number of moves as the page says (x2 every turn from 2x30):

  • 1 - 60
  • 2 - 120
  • 3 - 240
  • 4 - 480
  • 5 - 960

My theory: the page is wrong and the power doesn't double each successful hit, it adds 30 to the power each successful hit.

With my theory without defense curl (y=30+30x):

  • 1 - 30
  • 2 - 60
  • 3 - 90
  • 4 - 120
  • 5 - 150

With my theory with defense curl [y=(2x30)+30x]:

  • 1 - 60
  • 2 - 90
  • 3 - 120
  • 4 - 150
  • 5 - 180

With my theory with defense curl [y=2(30+30x)]:

  • 1 - 60
  • 2 - 90
  • 3 - 180
  • 4 - 240
  • 5 - 300

With the BEDMAS I used above, I realised that the page doesn't state whether the base power or the total power is doubled (which is irrelevant in the clearly wrong information on the page).

Let's compare how balanced the power of the fifth successful strike is. First we should look at the probability of getting this far to show the relevance the figure. For this we will exclude any variables that will stop the strikes from being unsuccessful other than their base power (such as a protect move, disable, forced switchout, fainting, running out of pokemon etc.). The probability of the fifth strike hitting is (1-0.9)(1-0.9^2)(1-0.9^3)(1-(0.9^4))*0.9^5 = x I will finish this in the morning, but my conclusion will be that 480 and 960 power are ridiculously untrue, 180 is underpowered and given the probability and the amount of turns used (six), 150& 300 are balanced and quite likely the case.

I'm worried nobody will see this and it will rot with the page continuing to be wrong, so if there is no response tomorrow, I will fix the page and hopefully that'll get someone's attention. Thanks Pokepro97 (talk) 16:59, 13 April 2014 (UTC).