Talk:Revelation Dance (move)

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Revision as of 20:16, 6 January 2017 by Nescientist (talk | contribs) (→‎results of testing)
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Just noticed that both this and Hidden Power use the same descriptive word -- "mezameru"/"awakening" -- in the Japanese version, they just had their names translated differently in English (though still related... "revelation" implies making something known that was previously "hidden.") They're both Normal-type moves that change their actual type depending on the user, so there's more similarity than just the name. Not sure how to word it, but maybe something worth mentioning in the trivia? FnrrfYgmSchnish (talk) 22:07, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I doubt it. These certainly aren't the only moves with both similar effects and names, even in English, like Acid and Acid Spray. Kikugi (talk) 01:51, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

results of testing

I got around to testing roost, but I want to do more tests when bank is out before adding to the page:

pure flying type uses roost, RD is called by dancer before the end of the turn - RD is normal - no surprises here

pure flying type with grass type added via forest's curse, RD is called by dancer before the end of the turn - RD is normal

The second result is surprising because when a burned up pure fire type is affected by forest's curse, RD is grass. I want to wait until I can test Noivern before adding the stuff about roost, in case for some reason it treats an actual secondary type and a forest's curse added type differently. Also with access to Trick or Treat I can be doubly sure that the move is normal.

I've also been able to confirm type hierarchy with Reflect Type. If a dual type pokemon who's primary type is fire is affected by forest's curse; RD is the type of the pokemon's actual secondary type when the fire type is lost through burn up. JMVB - I don't what to put here. (talk) 11:08, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

ahh I just found the reason it happens... a pure flying type gains the normal type when using roost even when affected by forest's curse. i will test this in gen 6 too. I also will see if it works with noivern. a secondary flying type does not get normal typing when roost is used. JMVB - I don't what to put here. (talk) 11:30, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
The surprising thing for me is that RD gets Grass-type when used by a Burned Up pure Fire type affected with Forest's Curse. I've kinda expected all the others, but I would've thought RD is Normal-type in that case.
Have you looked at the status screen while testing? What does the status screen say for Forest's Curse? I presume there's an information that the Pokémon has a type added, right? Is the Grass type also listed where the other types are listed? For a Burned Up Fire type affected by Forest's Curse, is it listed as Grass type there, or is there just no type icon (but the "type added" information)? Can a Pokémon have more than two type icons up there? I presume RD's type always matches the leftmost type icon in the status screen (i.e., a hypothetical one updated mid-turn, for Roost). Nescientist (talk) 18:59, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
The forest curse added grass type is always noted as an information below the stat changes and not at the top with the other types, no matter how many types the pokemon has. Though an actual secondary type is shifted left on the screen when a pokemon loses its primary type.
The weird thing about this for me is that Forest Curse doesn't stop a pure flying getting a normal type. In Gen 6 if Noivern uses Roost it is pure dragon until the end of the turn, I assume the same will is for Gen7. Otherwise RD works as I would expect, starts with primary-type, if it's lost primary it goes to secondary-type, if it doesn't have secondary it goes its tertiary-type which can only be added by forest's curse or trick or treat. JMVB - literally it doesn't stand for anything (talk) 19:50, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
I always imagined Forest's Curse is implemented as an additional status/effects, and just checked during damage calculation (roughly similar to Heatproof etc.). Which makes perfect sense for everything (and I was hoping you'd say exactly what you said on icons), except for RD being Grass type, as mentioned above.
For types, at least in early Generations, neither of the two types can technically be empty or anything. In fact, Tangela is a Grass/Grass type technically, and so on. The second type is just ignored if it matches the first type. So, I'd expect that, upon loss of the primary type, it is technically overridden with the second type (if it exists), and that's why RD becomes secondary type then. It also explains the icon "shift". For Roost, the status/effect thinking explains why it still becomes Normal, that's why I expected that. Nescientist (talk) 20:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)