Bulbapedia talk:Speculation policy

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Gender policy

I have a few questions about the new gender policy:

  1. Which Pokemon does the sentence "By contrast, any individuals that appear in DP001 or later can retroactively be considered confirmed as soon as both designs have appeared." have in mind, the ones introduced before or in generation IV? Maybe both?
  2. How does it treat Pokemon introduced in generation IV that appeared before DP001, like Weavile in "Duels of the Jungle!"?
  3. Which Pokemon with generation IV gender difference are considered "with very minor gender differences" and which are "with clear visual gender differences"?

--Rocket Grunt 18:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

If a species was introduced before Generation IV and gained gender differences later... For any individuals of such a species who debuted before DP001... By contrast, any individuals that appear in DP001 or later. (It's all the same reference frame.)
"How does it treat Pokemon introduced in generation IV": For species with clear visual gender differences, inferences can always be made from these if the species was introduced in Generation IV or later.
Minor gender differences are ones that are just "more" or "less" some characteristic. There has to be a clear difference to point to; not just "that Pokemon is too big or too red to be fe/male". Tiddlywinks (talk) 01:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
  1. Then I suggest to change the last sentence to "By contrast, any individuals that debut in DP001 or later can retroactively be considered confirmed as soon as both designs have appeared."
  2. What about Eevee? How far can we go to retroactively confirm its gender as soon as female variant appears?
  3. Then the Weavile falls into category "we could have made inferences as it is species introduced in generation IV, but the difference is minor so we can't"?
--Rocket Grunt 08:29, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Moves, inferences, and exceptions

Since there has been some confusion, here are some things that may help clarify what our approach is or should be:

  • Exceptions: All the moves that are to be inferred, those with or without additional context, have to be discussed with the staff first and then can be added to the moves pages, if the staff themselves haven't added already. This is to avoid edit warring, potential disputes or confusion like in Goh's Raichu's case. Another thing is the exceptions to inferences for non-verbal moves that are very difficult to identify, even with the additional context present. That would include moves like Thunder Shock, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Discharge, or when it's between Volt Tackle and Wild Charge, or Stone Edge and Rock Blast etc. You folks get the gist. In JN035's case, while we do have some context present, which would be Ash commanding Pikachu to use the move and other characters lining up to contribute, it is definitely not enough to confirm that the others were using the exact same move. The animation of such moves did/does not help in differentiating them, as they look way too identical to identify. Because of this ambiguity, different users may perceive these occurrences differently, which may potentially lead to edit warring or disputes, and that is why it would be more safe to avoid such speculations.
  • Mallow's Shaymin's Aromatherapy: Shaymin uses it in two episodes, SM117 (initially unconfirmed) and 134 (confirmation). With the exception of added green shading for the latter use, in both episodes, Aromatherapy affects the Pokemon (Eevee and Primarina) in a very similar way; it heals their poison with the help of a powder-esque substance and they recover as a result. In addition, it's the only move that Shaymin has used throughout its entire stay with Mallow. Again, it has been acknowledged not because it's visually identifiable in all cases i.e. has unique animation, but based on the useful additional information (same effect and later commanded verbally).
  • Scorbunny's Double Kick in JN004: Based on the events that occurred in that particular episode, it's been decided that JN004 should be Double Kick's debut episode. The flashback followed by Goh recalling the move and commanding makes it abundantly clear. Also, it's the only kick-based/Fighting-type move that Scorbunny/Raboot has used from JN004 till the recent episode (Ember involves fire and kicking a rock, which is different). One thing that I want to make absolutely clear is that the decision has been made purely based on the specific scenario that played out in the anime. I want to emphasize that without the presence of Goh's mini flashback, it would have been very difficult to acknowledge this without ambiguity as Double Kick. The level at which it learns the move in the games plays no role in this particular case.

That's all for now. We the staff will continue to work on this and other policies to make them as clear as possible, especially as more cases come forward. AdilTalk page 09:59, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Anime Gender verification

I think that the policy should say that unless a Pokémon is a gender specific one, like Miltank and Tauros, the Pokémon's page must have a reference which sources the episode in which it was confirmed. Likewise Pokémon with gender differences must have a reference saying that it was confirmed through gender differences, this is to ensure that the information is correct and cited. I hope people agree with me.Huntress (talk) 21:27, 6 September 2020 (UTC)