Bulbapedia talk:Project Locations

This is the Project Locations talk page. If you have any suggestions, inquiries, or questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Question

Hi, I am a new user, and I was wondering if I can join the project. My user name is Will1313. Thanks

"Episodes Featuring" and "Trivia"

I think it would be cool to add those sections. Just a suggestion. If you don't mind, I'd like to also add a map section so I can add them to the location articles as they get completed.--LynnCreed 11:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Episodes featured would be a good place to start, certainly. The maps, well, we'll see after we get all the non-game places, eh? TTEchidna 21:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Almia

Almia REALLY needs some editing. There are so many pages that don't exist, and the ones that do are stubs. It HAS come out in Japan, you know. We DO have access to this info. Even though we might not know the English names of these places, there should at least be information on them! TorchicBlaziken ^(talk)

Header/sidenav options font size on project page

Just noticed in the project page that the header and sidenav options font sizes are notably decreased. Currently happening in Firefox, IE and Opera.     -–<×vVvv_v τ^λικ _to ς1^tHςι_4γ3r ^^vVv×>–- 05:56, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Narrowed the culprit down to the Locationstub template. Take the template out and the page is fine. Shall check the template code as the other stub templates aren't giving their Project pages the same problem.     -–<×vVvv_v τ^λικ _to ς1^tHςι_4γ3r ^^vVv×>–- 16:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Best Practice Article

Is there a best practice article that all the other article should look up to?--Clarky13 22:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there is Clarky. Look on the project page. It has been updated.--Clarky13 09:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Now who's crazy...? Nice job on the update though. — THE TROM — 06:28, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

But regarding the best practice article, both Cerulean Cave and Turnback Cave are missing information from the Pokemon section of each article.... I'm not sure if you'd call that best practice, but the rest of the article looks alright. — THE TROM — 06:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I like them because they have a wide range of galleries of each floor and room. And I'm not crazy, at least I have a userpage :p--Clarky13 06:43, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Confusion about a few things

I edited Pallet Town awhile ago and the other day I was thinking, why are Gary's battles listed there, shouldn't they be on Professor Oak's Laboratory, I mean, isn't that standard for these situations, kind of like Jubilife TV? Speaking of that, shouldn't the Pokémon you get from Oak be on the Lab page too, and also why are the Pokémon party boxes like they are here, and not how they are done normally?--Spriteit 11:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, it says on the data screen that your starter Pokemon is received in Pallet Town, not Oak's lab. I guess the battle is listed for similar reasons. — THE TROM — 04:39, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

But the battle and getting of Pokémon clearly happens in Oak's Lab, even though it says Pallet Town, that could be just a generalisation. --Spriteit 23:53, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

In the game, Professor Oak's Laboratory isn't a location, it is still Pallet Town.--Clarky13 01:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Gen I maps

Can someone please tell me how can I get the different maps of the locations in Generation I? It's because between RG, B, and Y, they're different. I need all 3 variants of the maps (RG, B, and Y - Japanese versions) because I'm uploading the games' soundtrack on YouTube but I also want to put pictures of the maps in the tracks of locations. That's why I need them in all their variants, from the Japanese versions and preferably in black and white like the Gen I maps present on the 'pedia's articles. Pokemon lover 14:46, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Some articles have maps, some don't. If you have a map, upload it, please.--Clarky13 07:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Gen IV maps

I think there are quite a few maps from Gen IV which generally suck. And by suck, I am of course referring to maps which are not at 1:1 ratio, maps which are incredibly blurry, maps which were blatantly scanned out of some guide, maps which are scribbled over, maps which have massive JPEG compression artifacts, etc. My suggestion: look at some of Cadellin's maps, and consider that quality to be your goal when making maps. To start this off, I will be posting a new map of Eterna Forest either tonight or tomorrow morning (it's currently just past 11 o'clock here). Yes, I know Cadellin made the old map, but it was not very good quality. Definitely not his/her best work. Still, his/her other work is absolutely beautiful. See Valley Windworks for an example. Anyways, I'm new to Bulbapedia (not to Wikipedia), but I'm here to contribute. Nuck Chorris 06:17, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I uploaded it to Bulbagarden Archives (a:Image:EternaForest.png), but on the old image, a:Image:Eterna Forest.png, I don't know what to do. On Wikipedia I know you'd tag it with {{Superseded-image}}, but that template doesn't seem to exist on Bulbapedia/Bulbagarden Archives. So, what should I do with the old image? Don't worry, I can assure you mine is far better quality. Oh, also, there is a side route which the Pokémon games consider part of Eterna Forest, but which were not included on the old map, and are really not covered by any map/article. I have a bunch of unused space at the top left corner of the map, so should I put an inset there for that side route? I know I use that side route all the time, plus there is a 4-tile patch of soft, fertile soil there, along with a girl who gives you an item, I think something for fashion or one of the other things with no purpose besides cosmetics. Please help! Nuck Chorris 02:03, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

First of all, thanks for the great quality of work you have put in. I really love it and hope t see more of it. Secondly, Bulbapedia isn't Wikipedia. There is a difference between the two, we want more of an aesthetical lean toward them, but we are not like Wikipedia. When uploading images on the Archives, you can replace the first one and upload over it. Now, as for your side route problem, you can add a section to the Geography section, add a bit of info and then add the picture as a thumbnail on the side, because its not really needed in the infobox.--Clarky13 06:56, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm kinda interested in helping out with the map-making process, but... well, how do you guys make Gen IV maps? It's not like in the previous generations where the backgrounds are stationary and you can just copy and paste... the Gen IV maps change perspective with every step you take. How do you guys deal with this changing perspective? - Nick15 01:50, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Pokémon World (Mystery Dungeon)

Shouldn't this be counted as a region, since it is seperate from all the others??--Smartkidhen 20:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I thinks so. It should be added to the To-Do list for the project.--Spotman234 08:18:25 December 2009 (UTC) But there are more than two worlds, the one from PMD (Pokémon Mystery Dungeon)Red/Blue, and now the ones from PMD Time/Darkness/Sky. So, they have to be distinguishable from one game to the next, otherwise, it would be a mess. Sky needs ALOT of updating on Sky peak.

Accessory items that pokemon can pick up at (location) - HG/SS

This kind of goes for Project Routes too, but I've noticed that in HG/SS the pokemon that's walking with you, when you talk to it, will sometimes give you an accessory item. I've been playing it for a while and, from what I've seen, what it gives you depends on the route/location you're in. I think it'd be really convenient if there were a section for what the pokemon will pick up in the specific location, just like there's usually one for non-accessory items that can be found at said location. I'd be willing to help with this, too, as I already know some of the things you always find in certain locations. And with the help of the Accessory page, I can find out their official English translations (I'm playing the Japanese version, lol). KazeHaru Hime ^(talk)

[Talk page maintenance: new comments go to the bottom, and you sign your comments by writing ~~~~. See this page.]

This would be useful. If you can gather together the information on a user subpage, we'll be able to work it into the articles. —darklordtrom 07:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

How about a template for event-only locations?

Okay so I figure we don't have a huge number of event-only locations in the whole Pokémon world. These are kinda important because if someone wants to explore the world, these are going to be the locations that are hardest to visit. I actually counted just 11: Navel Rock, Birth Island, Shinto Ruins, Southern Island, Faraway Island, Rock Peak Ruins, Iceberg Ruins, Iron Ruins, Newmoon Island, Flower Paradise and Hall Of Origin. Would it be appropriate to make a navigation template linking these locations? Kidburla 20:33, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a member of this Project, but I would rather see a Category:Event-only locations than another chunky template taking up more space than the text in the article. —darklordtrom 10:05, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Additional trainer data

Hi all, I'm new around here, but not to wikis in general. I have loads of trainer data for generations I-III including all of the rematch information for generation III. I noticed that only the first encounters with trainers is usually listed on each location page. Is there interest in adding rematch data at some point? It would seem consistent to do something similar to what is done with the different movesets among generations, i.e. make a sub-page for each generation's rematches. For example, for Route 117 the URL would be something like [[Route 1/Emerald_rematches]]. Any interest? Or should I just throw out all my trainer data I've been sitting on for 7 years? --PagodaGiftShop 22:55, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Accessories

Should the accessories available in Johto and Kanto locations in HGSS be listed on the respective locations' pages? If so, how? Should a space be created in the infoboxes? --AndyPKMN 12:27, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

/* New Pokémon locations template */

Okay, the old one is way out of date, so I made a new one (using the same three parts as the item locations template). What does everyone think? たかはりい 07:50, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Mystery Dungeon locations

I've noticed that there seems to be a different format for the articles between games. In the articles on MD1 locations, when the dungeon is split into parts they each have separate articles. For example, Rock Path, Mt. Blaze and Mt. Blaze Peak. On the other hand, the MD2 locations have those all lumped together. For example, Rock Path and Mt. Horn or Quicksand Cave and Quicksand Pit. They should all be consistent, so which is the preferred style? Personally, I would go with either giving them all separate articles (although Rock Path could prove a problem) or putting them all in separate sections in one article, as is the case for the Temporal Tower article. Werdnae (talk) 20:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Seasons

There are a few areas, such as Routes 6 through 8, in which the wild Pokémon change according to the current season. Since there apparently are no longer changes in wild Pokémon based on the time of the day, is there any chance of creating a template to be used in the gen V games to reflect that? Something in the lines of:

Pokémon	Games						Location	Levels	Rate

The Shikijika images being placeholders for whatever is decided to be used as symbols for the seasons. Or, since there are only a few areas in which it happens, should we just use {{catch/div}}? Mr. Charlie(TalkToMe) 13:49, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Edited Snowpoint Temple

I edited Snowpoint Temple by adding a "Geography" section. Mind you, this was my first edit. EDIT: Here is the link btw, Snowpoint Temple ~Swaq 02:57, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

It is fine. Btw... You have to use your full username when signing your post. :] Han Ji-Wan 03:00, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, and will do!

No problem. Also, make sure to sign your post every time you edit (only on talkpages though) :] Han Ji-Wan 03:12, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The Seven Orre Colosseums/Stadiums

I am wondering if someone with more insight can clarify exactly what to do for these Orre Colosseums/Stadiums articles (there are 7 of them - see the bottom of Phenac Stadium and browse the "Colosseums" section to see what I am referring to). The most complete seems to be the actual Orre Colosseum, but it still seems to be missing some organization. Each of these 7 articles are location-related, but I do not see them, or their region Orre, specifically outlined on the Project Locations page. For example, they are not mentioned under the Categories, and neither is Orre, as opposed to the GB line of games. Should we have a new template for them, or just use a pre-existing one, such as the "Infobox location" template, as used on Orre Colosseum? I can get to work on refining these if someone with proper experience/knowledge can point me in the right direction. Sorry for the long post, but I just don't want to make useless edits, thinking I'm making contributions while I'm actually just annoying people. Thanks.   →   Zelkova   (Talk)   19:23, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I am going to just put the already-present information into the template boxes used for other similar location-based articles. This talk page does not seem to be very active anymore, and so I cannot see myself getting a solid reply any time soon. I will do what I can to make things better, in the least risky way possible. For now I will work on Orre-related locations, starting with the aforementioned colosseums, and keep them consistent with each other as well as the project standards. Please let me know if I am doing anything wrong.   →   Zelkova   (Talk)   01:26, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

You're doing well :) Sorry that no one responded to you earlier. What you did worked fine and those pages are looking much better. Thanks! If you ever need to ask a specific person about Colo/XD articles, talk to User:PsychicRider. He's been working on a lot of them over the past couple of years. —darklordtrom 10:45, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try to do what I can. Yeah, PsychicRider was the one who replied to some of my earlier questions. It looks like he has already gathered most of the information on Pokemon and their statistics in Colo/XD. What I'll probably be doing, for the most part, is checking things over and adding in little bits that might be missing, e.g. reward money in some cases, as well as expanding and completing stubs and incomplete articles. Thanks for the reply.   →   Zelkova   (Talk)   18:48, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Darkness

I think that in the Mystery Dungeon Location template there should be a "darkness" section, showing in what dungeons are dark, on what floors, and how dark (one- or two-tile sight radius). EnosShayrem^Talk 19:15, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Ummm

Can I join Project Locations. I'm ReaNintendo ReaNintendo 23:20, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Of course, anybody can join. I see you have already joined, so... Have fun contributing to the project! :] Han Ji-Wan 00:34, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Terrian Types/Biomes/Landforms

Hello, I recently joined the wiki and this project, and was wondering if we could expand the pages of specific groups of locations, including Terrain Types, Landforms, or Biomes. For example, the only good article we have of this is Desert and Cave, while locations such as Volcano, Mountain, Forest, Grassland, Ocean, Snow, and Marshes are left in the dust as disumbagation pages. I would like to suggest in order to improve quality and provide more information to our users that we begin to turn these pages into full fledged articles, similar to the Desert article. Thoughts? XXSuperXXNintendoXx 22:47, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

We have a Forest page under construction. Ocean, volcano and mountain all seem reasonable (although volcano might do as just a section on mountain). I think snow is pretty much covered by snow tile, and marsh is so uncommon that marsh tile is enough too. Grassland isn't really a common location at all, and I don't think it needs an article. --SnorlaxMonster 01:21, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, agreed I would be happy to work on a Mountain/Volcano page... my favorite types are Fire, so its always a joy to work on their habitat, but I don't know if I can work on it the way Turtwig A has because it seems to be located on his userpage. Which unfortunately, I can't edit mine due to being non-autocomfirmed. Is there anyway around this? If you want to look at some of my work, while thinking of solution if needed. Just look at my userpage on Zelda Wiki, same username. XXSuperXXNintendoXx 01:28, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, if you made sure you completed the page first, it could be put straight into the mainspace. That forests page was made back when only the caves page existed, not desert (which was changed from a page about a specific location too a general page by me in late 2010). I think I'll clean it up and mainspace it today. It really shouldn't be sitting there anymore. --SnorlaxMonster 01:56, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I'll get started on the volcano/mountain page! XXSuperXXNintendoXx 01:57, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

On second thought, non-autoconfirmed users can't create pages either... You can send me the page once you have finished it and I'll create it, so then you can edit it. --SnorlaxMonster 04:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Conecting locations

I noticed that some locations don't have the connecting locations Thing on the sidebar when it could. Is this on purpose, and why? Zuook (talk) 17:40, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Pokémon Snap Pokémon Island Locations

The Pokémon Island Beach, Pokémon Island Tunnel, Pokémon Island Volcano Pokémon Island River, Pokémon Island Cave and Pokémon Island Valley Articles need some serious TLC. I tried my best, but I think they need a overhaul and a rethinking on how to represent them and the info needed to be relaid in them. Yamitora1 (talk) 04:50, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Including natural object items in item sections of locations

I want to include item lists for items from natural objects on route/location pages. This will greatly increase the exposure of this mechanic to users, and it is also useful (so you can just look at the location's page rather than scrolling up and down the natural objects page). However, I understand that it's not quite like the other things usually listed in the Items sections, since you actually find natural objects (50% or less of the time) in battles. (And it would affect a lot of pages...) I believe that the benefit of the exposure outweighs this concern, though.

Can someone give me the green light to add these items to locations? (And if anyone else feels this is a good idea, chiming in can only help. =) ) Tiddlywinks (talk) 12:26, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it would be a good idea to add natural object items to all XY location pages in the same way as Rock Smash items. --SnorlaxMonster 09:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Wow, I forgot all about this post... And I almost forgot all about it again just between yesterday and today. Well then, there's no way I'm gonna waste any more time waiting on this one. Unless someone objects before I get to it, I'll start adding natural object items to pages in the near future (in the next hour, later today, later this week...whenever I happen to feel like it). Tiddlywinks (talk) 11:21, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I Want To Be Part of this Project

I really want to be a part of this project. Does this cover anime-exclusive locations as well? WATERWarrior67 08:18, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

I probably won't be able to help

I probably won't be able to help. I don't have the game consoles anymore, just faded memories. I remember the English versions of Stadiums 1 and 2, but I highly doubt that my help is needed. Unless trivia counts, then I am useless. WATERWarrior67 03:25, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

DLC Dungeons in gates to infinity and randon encounter rate in explorer of darkness/sky.

Hi I've been wondering why some dungeons in explorers of darkness/time/sky like miracle sea has a random encounter rate to which floor each pokémon will appear on if not all so why can that not stand in the basic information section of the page or as a* after that specific pokémon? Secondly The DLC dungeons in gates to infinity all have some kind of description on the dowload screen, shouldn't that stand somewhere? If someone have any ideas please tell me. --Raltseye (talk) 09:05, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Sources

Where do you guys get information for the Pokemon encounter rates? sumwun (talk) 04:42, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Datamining. Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 04:44, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Largest place

Does anyone know which place, out of all core series games, has the most tiles? sumwun (talk) 22:37, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I do believe this would depend on how you define the word "place". --Raltseye prata med mej 08:07, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I guess here "place" would just be another word for "location". Is there an agreed-upon definition for "location"? sumwun (talk) 19:00, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Consistency between Layout sections

I’m not entirely sure if this is the best place to post this, but I have a proposal to a rather large inconsistency between location pages.

Currently we have three different ways to deal with map differences between games. Some pages, in particular Kanto and Johto maps, have the map differences in an “Other generation maps” section in the infobox. Some pages, in particular Hoenn maps, have the map differences in a dedicated template and section called either “Appearance” or “Layout”. Some pages, in particular Sinnoh maps, just have the alternate appearance off to the side somewhere in the page in a generic image box.

I believe that on all pages, the multigeneration maps should be moved to a dedicated “Layout” section and template, like most Hoenn maps already are. The infoboxes are rather limited in what they can do; they only support up to Gen III, and only support one map per generation, which would be an issue for many Hoenn and Sinnoh maps. The infobox also displays previous generation maps really small. And the Sinnoh map technique is just honestly kind of sloppy and doesn’t look good.

To maintain consistency between location pages, all locations should use a dedicated Layout section and template, which is in my opinion the best option out of the three I’ve seen so far on Bulbapedia. --celadonk (talk) 12:05, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm personally for this change, I think it would work out better looking overall. --Spriteit (talk) 08:55, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree. I’d also be willing to do a lot of the work; I already spend a lot of time on location pages, and I’m pretty familiar with the Layout section templates. --celadonk (talk) 12:33, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree, I think it would be best if all location pages had a layout section (unless they only have one game appearance and that appearance is the infobox image). The restrictions inherent in putting maps in the infobox mean it is not a long-term sustainable place to put them (and at this stage, it's already going to cause problems when we start uploading Let's Go maps for Kanto locations and need somewhere to put the HGSS maps). --SnorlaxMonster 12:55, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

I hope I don't come across as impatient, but how would it be decided to make this change? --celadonk (talk) 21:06, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Also, slightly unrelated, but should I start changing "Appearance" sections on locations pages to "Layout", as per the guidelines for creating a location page on Project Locations? --celadonk (talk) 17:15, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Adding Music to Location pages

It seems really out of place to me that basically everything except for the music that plays in a given location (talking specifically about the games here) is listed in an article for that location. The only places I have seen it listed is if there is some sort of trivia about the music, in which case it is obviously mentioned in the trivia section. But the general location infoboxes, for whatever reason, do not have a place to declare the music that plays in a location, and neither, for that matter, does either format for trainer battles have a way to do this, though I believe that's more Project Games area of jurisdiction. While this issue has been talked about in Project Music's talk page (first mentioned in 2014 with the third comment in the thread made by me just a few days), I imagine that not many people are interested in Project Music, thus few people are likely to take notice of the issue there, so I thought to mention it here since there is relevance to Project Location's goals.

Music is an inherent part of basically all locations from the games, so to have it mentioned essentially nowhere seems... wrong. Especially when everything else, from the map description and layout to the moves needed to navigate and the items located there, is listed. Is music not listed because it's not information needed to achieve something (even if that something is as simple as knowing what trainers can be registered in the pokégear or where a hidden item is), because if so then why is the map description included in the infoboxes when it is not needed for such things?

I'd really love to hear your opinions on this :)

Nikkie2571 (talk) 01:24, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

I've asked about this before (it was a while ago, so my answer could be wrong), and IIRC, the issue is with loading times/server strain. Same case with Pokémon cries. I agree that it would be useful/important, but it might be more trouble than it's worth. --celadonk (talk) 15:41, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Um… why would loading times be affected by adding a single text string to a page? Did you perhaps think I meant adding the actual music files, because if so I believe that's actually not allowed due to copyright reasons, unless the clips are kept very short. Regardless, my request was not to add audio files to the pages, since that's both resource-intensive and more than what would be required, but to add more text to various infoboxes, since the official soundtrack releases have provided the names for basically all music tracks in the games [I will note that UsUm and SwSh do not have official soundtrack releases, which makes me mad, but unofficial names will have to do in those instances]. Also, just to be pre-emptive for this potential issue, in the case of different tracks that share the same name (The track titled "Battle Tower" in Ruby/Sapphire is different from the track of the same name in Emerald (though the Ruby/Sapphire Battle Tower track is used in Emerald, just not for the actual Battle Tower)) the track name can be preceded by the name(s) of the game(s) the track came from and use a Game Superscript to identify the game of use (in the case where different tracks are used in different games). E.G. Fuchsia City's Music: Red/Green - Cerulean City Theme^RGBY, Gold/Silver - Celadon City^GSC, FireRed/LeafGreen - Fuchsia City Theme^FRLG, HeartGold/SoulSilver - Fuchsia City^HGSS, Let's Go, Pikachu!/Let's Go, Eevee! - Cerulean City Theme^PE). Nikkie2571 (talk) 16:27, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Outdated

Regions are listed exhaustively, with recent ones missing. And more importantly, the "Pokémon" subsection, for example, details a standard that is not.. the standard: Even the routes mentioned in the "Pokémon" subsection list Pokémon in NDex order rather than what this page says it should be ordered by. Also, project pages are protected, which makes it hard to update. Possible solutions/improvements may include declaring projects outdated per se, or updating and unprotecting them. Nescientist (talk) 16:36, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

I personally update many of the routes encounter table back then a long time ago (2010ish i think). Apparently someone reordered them by national dex sometime in 2017 and no one bother to change them back (i think there is other user too). the newer games route had always been in national dex order since they were created, it seems no one really bother correcting them or pay attention to the "correct" layout. i don't mind changing them back when i have the time, but with that many pages, maybe there really should be a discussion to standardise the layout, whether the standard listed in the project is good or we can have a new layout. -Pokeant (talk) 13:06, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

A case can be made that NDex order is actually preferrable. I wouldn't know how to reliably enforce this "policy" when rates differ between versions, or time of day, even if I tried to. Nescientist (talk) 18:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Well personally i prefer the encounter rate order. it keep things organized such as version exclusives usually appear beside each other, and players tend to encounter the higher rates mon first so there is a flow. most other fansites also list by encounter rate. based on what i understand for time of day, those pokemon that keep the same encounter rate throughout the day will be listed first, followed by those in day then night. the first pair games will take priority followed by the 3rd version. of cause this gets messy sometimes, especially crystal version since it changes quite a lot in that version. but i hope the admin can start a new discussion or decision regarding the layout soon. i dont want to go edit back every page only to be reverted. -Pokeant (talk) 22:14, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

But the problem is with multiple versions with different encounter rates and even different species, you can't simultaneously sort by all versions. If you could just click on like "Red Version" and limit to that version specifically, then I agree, encounter order definitely is best, but for now, take Kanto Route 15 in Generation I for example: what would the order be, according to that non-NDex logic? Oddish 40% R, Oddish 35% Y, Bellsprout 40% B, Bellsprout 25% Y, Venonat 20% RB, Venonat 19% Y, Pidgey 15% RB, Ditto 15% RB, Pidgeotto 5% RB, Pidgeotto 10% Y, Gloom 5% RY, Weepinbell 5% BY, Venomoth 1% Y, in that order, I believe? That's actually hard to sort (and there's some ambiguity, I believe), and more importantly, it doesn't help answering any of the questions you typically have when you browse to that section, which include: Which Pokémon can I encounter in Red? Which Pokémon can I encounter in Red but not in Blue (->version exclusivity)? What is the most common Pokémon in Red? Can I encounter <species> (e.g. Pidgeotto; or Pikachu) here in Red? For each of those, you'd just have to go through the whole list one by one anyway. Nescientist (talk) 17:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

For both list you still have to look through the whole list anyway. but the encounter rate is still better for the questions you asked. the pokemon the game is catchable in is always highlighted.

"Which Pokémon can I encounter in Red?" in both list, just look at the Red R icon. both list is the same.

"Which Pokémon can I encounter in Red but not in Blue (->version exclusivity)?" you still have to look at the R and B icon to see which are highlighted. But the encounter order is better because by encounter order, bellsprout will be directly below oddish thus we can see they are the version exclusives with the same encounter rate (but the yellow encounter is in between). by dex order, you have the venonat family in between them instead of them just being side by side. so to look for version exclusives you still have to look through the whole list. so i would say enounter list is better.

"What is the most common Pokémon in Red?" if sort by encounter rate, the most common mon would be the first one listed. by national order, you have to look at each col highlighted in red and at all the encounter rate to know the most common mon. for route 15, you have to check the whole list before you know oddish is the most common at 40%, whereas the encounter order tell you straight away oddish is the most common as it is first listed at 40%. but this does not work for yellow always since the most common mon in red might not be for yellow so will not be listed first. still for your specific question for red, encounter list is better.

"Can I encounter <species> (e.g. Pidgeotto; or Pikachu) here in Red?" in both list, just look at the Red icon. the dex order is only better if you know the dex order of the pokemon you are looking for. for example, you know pikachu is 25, so if the first few mon dex number is below 25 but after that it jump to after 25, you know pikachu is not in so you wont need to look through the whole list.

no doubt both list have their own benefits. but for the questions you asked, encounter order is better. but the important question is is there a better way to present the list other than these two way? hope the admin can really be involved in the discussion too rather than just us. personally i prefer the encounter list. many sites also uses that too. but it gets really messy when you have time of the day involved, and 3rd version might have a totally different encounter for that route which will also make it messy. other fan sites usually dont have a combined table, they will separate the 3rd version from the original pair, morn day night encounter are also listed separately to be more neat. hope others can have more inputs too for alternative suggestions. -Pokeant (talk) 11:29, 30 July 2020 (UTC)