Talk:Silver (game)

Is there any way to suggest that Silver is "Giovanni's red-haired son" without causing a discussion that would span for 40 days and 40 nights, break for an hour, then start up again? --Meowth346

>Emphasize that's fan speciulation at best? - Zeta

What if we classified it as "heavily implied?" Since, it seems to be. Cheesedude 03:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Athena is Silver's Mom?

Does anyone else think its possible that Athena is Silver's mom?

Look at them! They both have ginger hair (Giovanni doesn't), they both have that bit that sticks up at the top, and is long at the sides! Its possible too- considering Giovanni and Athena worked together. Any thoughts? Jake200493 16:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Sneasel

If I'm remembering correctly, Silver steals his Sneasel from a guy in Cianwood. He gives Gold his Shuckle so Silve dosen't come back and steal that, too. That seems pretty relevant to me....Cheesedude 03:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article on Silver is MUCH more detailed, which is odd, since this is Bulbapedia....Cheesedude 03:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

responding to this a year later -_- Anyway if you have a look at Silver's non-starter Pokémon they are all more or less sweeper-based in stats. Shuckle has no offensive powers really, and the only time it has them is when it sacrifices all its defense (and its still too slow to be any good). I doubt Silver wanted it.--Outrage DD 19:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I definitely think that Silver steals his Sneasel from the guy in Cianwood, since he has it in a point of the game where you can't get it at that point yet. ^Chocolate 19:12, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Crobat?

...how does having a Crobat show that he loves his Pokémon? TinaTheKirlia ♥ File:281MS.gif 19:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Because this means that his Pokémon love him, 'cause Golbat will evolve just if its Happiness is at maximum. And, a Pokémon can't be happy if the Trainer don't care about them, just if the Trainer really loves the Pokémom.うずまきハルカ 20:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah but, there are other ways too get your Pokémon to love you, loads of others, so it doesn't really mean he loved his Crobat in return. I'd look here for more info xD Takoto タコト| サソデイ = 愛 21:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

You have to be cruel to be kind.It's the Θρtιmαtum♏^Talk|Links03:57 29 May 2008

↑ Wouldn't that just cancel it out...? --CAT2 A.K.A Cat2killer 00:35, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Sprite

I want to update the battle info to the new standard, but first, I need to know this: Do we currently have the Silver sprite uploaded? 'Cause we really need it for the template. --Chocolate (talk to me) 01:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Do you have the moveset too? tc26 01:58, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Check silversprite 1 and 2 tc26 02:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't quite have the movesets, but I do know this: In Generation I, the 4 moves were always the most recent 4 moves that a Pokémon would know it its level. So, when I'm putting the table, I'll do it like that until someone else can confirm otherwise. --Chocolate (talk to me) 02:19, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

They've got movesets and stuff if you search hard enough in a GSC walkthrough on GameFAQs.com. Gligar 02:25, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, can someone more experienced update the battle info? I'm a bit too tired to do it right now. --Chocolate (talk to me) 02:42, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I can do it. tc26 02:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Why does the article has a Crystal sprite if it's the same as in Gold and Silver? The correct thing is to put a list of all the sprites and their variations like in Green's/Blue's article. Pokemon lover 21:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Kamon?

Do we really need to mention that name? It's just the first player name choice for the Silver version, and Hiroki (the first for Gold) isn't the name used by Gold's Anime equivalent (Kenta). "Mentioned on an Anime website"? What site? Sounds like fanwank to me. Satosuke 13:54, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, ArcToraphim. Satosuke 15:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

i think the original japanese you guys have in here for silver its not the right one cause while i put it in pokeani it appeared richie.

シルバ is correct. Pokéani isn’t really the best source. (See also: the recent removal of all the gym leader titles taken from Pokéani.) IIMarckus 19:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Picture of Anime Debut

I just saw that it had all the text on it. If I possibly could, would it be acceptable for me to find one without text and replace the current one? シンジ_ShinjiLover,Edits 07:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

By all means go ahead. -Sketch 00:07, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Optional names?

Where are his optional name? Lovely Rose 20:04, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Not here. Anyone got GSC? Go find out for us. — THE TROM — 01:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I... don't think he has any. It enters "SILVER" in Gold and Crystal, and "GOLD" in Silver, but other than that... nothing. TTEchidna 02:03, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Would that be 50/50 split in Crystal? - unsigned comment from Cat2killer (talk • contribs)

There are no optional names. When the cop asks for his name, you have to come up with it yourself. --Ryuutakeshi 1:40 August 27 2009

Anime Counterpart

Isn't Paul Silver's anime counterpart, but it said on this page. --∫∆π©∑一二三 09:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah... that page lied.... naughty page... it's all better now. — THE TROM — 09:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Silver's new design

Serebii has uploaded a scan showing Silver's redesign for the remakes, but the pic is too small [1]

I was wondering if anyone has a link to a bigger one, so that we can upload a decent image with his new design and update the article. -- Pokéman 12:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Even if there WAS a decent version of this scan, there is no way it would be put in the article. just wait for the official site to update with the art. There is no reason for crappy quality art to be used. -Sketch 12:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Filb.de and PokéBeach. Basically the same though. I agree, wait for the site. They're incomplete. The site may update this weekend, the next one or the one after that. ^tc²₆tc₂₆ 12:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Sketch: Even if we don't replace the main image, shouldn't we add the scan with the redesign somewhere in the article?

Tc26: Thanks. I had checked PokéBeach and Filb.de before writing the comment, but they hadn't updated with the new scans yet. -Pokéman 13:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

No, because it's low quality. Just wait for the site to update. It won't take long. -Sketch 13:23, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

HGSS sprite

Why does silver's HGSS sprite keep getting remove from the article? _ShinyPika 20:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Because we don't know it's final, just like we don't know if any of the other revealed sprites are final. Remember that Weavile and Munchlax got changed after being revealed for D/P, and a bunch of others that hadn't been revealed probably got changed too. R.A. Hunter Blade 21:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, we know what the final one is now, considering Pokémon Sunday recently showed a battle with Silver. If they changed his sprite after that, I want to know why.--Ryuutakeshi 23:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Is it the same one? I can't find the thing on Sunday... R.A. Hunter Blade 00:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Look on this page. The sprite is kinda there. _ShinyPika 00:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Alright. Now I have to wait to see if the one on my Sandbox page is the final after the animation or not. R.A. Hunter Blade 01:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

This is probably known to you all, but we know can update ALL sprites, since they have all been ripped.--Ryuutakeshi 05:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Including Silver's animated one? R.A. Hunter Blade 21:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

You know, I know that there are people out there who have it, but I can't for the life of me find it. - unsigned comment from Ryuutakeshi (talk • contribs)

When Bulbagarden gets hold of the sprite, they will go up. Don't rush. Thank you. —darklordtrom 01:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Soul?

That's right. Silver has a new name now, his default is either Heart (ハート Heart) or Soul (ソウル Soul) depending on your version. --Raine 15:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

It was like that in Gold and Silver too, his name was either Gold or Silver was his default name depending on the version. The exception is Crystal, where his default name is Silver. Drake Clawfang 18:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

But not anymore.

His posssible names are only Heart and Soul, not Gold or Silver, so the article should be moved.--Raine 22:34, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

We're leaving it where it is until the English versions come out. Same for Gold. ZestyCactus 22:40, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Must we really change it? People still call him Silver. A lot of people don't even realize his new defaults. --Ryuutakeshi 02:34, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Well no wonder, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and is Japanese-only so far. Drake Clawfang 02:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

His default name is:

• Pokémon Gold: Silver
• Pokémon Silver: Gold
• Pokémon Crystal: Silver
• Pokémon HeartGold: Soul
• Pokémon SoulSilver: Heart

So if we did move, which one would we move him to? His history makes me lean towards keeping the article at Silver. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 18:25, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Also, placeholder data in HGSS calls him "Silver". So, we should stick to that, just as we call FRLG girl "Leaf". --Maxim 18:50, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Kotone has the default names "Heart" and "Soul" as well. If we call Silver Heart or Soul, that'll get... confusing. ZestyCactus 19:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I would like to stick with Silver. If you look for the most common default name in the list, that is the answer. I would think that it would be one of the player characters if you were to sau Heart or Soul, not Silver. Solar Dragon 19:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Say What?!

Quote: "Giovanni and Silver's relationship is revealed in HeartGold and SoulSilver if the player brings a promotional Celebi to the Ilex Shrine in Ilex Forest. Celebi takes the player back in time three years to witness Giovanni abandoning Silver to go into seclusion because of his defeat. Silver's hate for Team Rocket apparently stems from them failing his father."

What's this event? I've heard of the pichu event and arceus event, but not this one. Where did this come from, and why can i not find anything else about it on any other pages? The curiosity is killing me! Morgil27 19:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe because the games have been out less than a week and thus information is still coming in? But it's true, here - http://pokebeach.com/2009/09/part-4-of-heartgold-and-soulsilver-coverage. Drake Clawfang 19:02, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo haven't acknowledged it in the pre-release info but it has been found inside the game's code. --FabuVinny ^{|Talk Page|} 15:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Serebii has an article on it if you'd like more info. ZestyCactus 18:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Hometown

Now that Giovanni is confirmed to be Silver's dad in the games, should we change Silver's hometown from "Unknown" to Viridian City? It'd make sense. Reign 23:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

No... think about it. Parents could be born someplace totally different from child. ^ht14^★ 23:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Giovanni is also shown abandoning Silver at the gate to Johto near Viridian... Drake Clawfang 00:27, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. I'd say that Silver's hometown being Viridian is a pretty safe bet. Reign 02:12, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm just wondering, was he born in Johto or Kanto?--Midnight Blue 02:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Um... that's what we're talking about... sorta... Alpha CuboneKing 02:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm kinda a blond, but with brown hair. Well back to the topic, did it say anything in the games?--Midnight Blue 02:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Read the stupid article and find out. Alpha CuboneKing 02:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I know it was confirmed in the game, I'm just talking about did it say anything in the games of where he came from.--Midnight Blue 02:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

That makes no sense. Alpha CuboneKing 02:22, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Did it say anything about if he came from Kanto or Johto? B/c Giovanni is a Kanto native(presumably), Silver must be from Kanto, but he could been born in Johto.--Midnight Blue 02:25, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Which is what we're talking about. Giovani is from Viridian, and the scene in the game where Giovanni leaves Silver is at the gate connecting Viridian to the rout eleading to Johto.So while it's never outright said Silver is born in Viridian, chances are he was. Reign 00:22, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Think about it. Giovanni's job as Mr. Evil Overlord takes him all over the Pokémon world. You see him in Saffron and Celadon Cities. Silver may have been born there. Let's not forget the fact that it is (or so I am led to believe) the woman who gives birth; no in-game evidence ties Giovanni to anyone in particular. It's entirely possible that Silver is Julia's son, and Giovanni's just been lying about being a sailor because his woman doesn't like Team Rocket. Or something equally absurd. Point of the matter is, Silver's birthplace is unknown and we aren't going to put anything in. —darklordtrom 06:01, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Eh? The only places we saw Giovanni travel to were Kanto cities (and Tohjo falls, AFTER we see him leaving Kanto and abandoning Silver). Not only there's no evidence to suggest that he had to travel to other regions prior to his defeat by Red, but it's highly unlikely considering that Team Rocket was mainly a Kanto-based organization during Gen I. - Crystal Master

The point was we don't know where Silver is born. We can guess, but it is not going into the article. —darklordtrom 20:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It's likely Silver was born in Viridian, but unless it's confirmed for sure no, it shouldn't be added. Drake Clawfang 21:33, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Introduction

This page's introduction is kind of confusing. When I first read it, it sounded like the Fame Checker referenced Special and "Silver's dark demeanor" along with the red haired child clue. I'd edit this myself, but wanted to ask if this was just me or if other people also find the sentence structure confusing.

Here's the sentence as it is now: Prior to the release of Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver, fan speculation held that Silver was Giovanni's red-haired child, due to Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen's Fame Checker's many references to Pokémon Gold and Silver versions, to Giovanni being Silver's manga equivalent's father in Pokémon Special, and to Silver's dark demeanor and detestment of Team Rocket.

And here's how it could be changed: Prior to the release of Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver, fan speculation held that Silver was Giovanni's red-haired child, citing as evidence Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen's Fame Checker's many references to Pokémon Gold and Silver versions, Giovanni being Silver's manga equivalent's father in Pokémon Special, and Silver's dark demeanor and detestment of Team Rocket. A sidequest in Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver later proved the theory true.

--AndyPKMN 01:59, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Leaf...

Shiningpikablu252: Oh, come on! You said yourself that Leaf should be mentioned in the FR/LG section of the timeline article but not in the G/S/C/HG/SS section because she existed on FR/LG but not on the G/S/C/HG/SS timeline. Now you're contradicting yourself by mentioning her in an article that is about a GSC character, and therefore, it's about the GSC timeline (especially considering that the part I edited was talking about a line said by Giovanni in HG/SS, not FR/LG, so he was clearly talking about Red). What's up with that?

And second, why was the article protected? No "canonicity debacle" started. I simply corrected a mistake, and before anyone could agree or disagree with it, you reverted it and protected the article. - Crystal Master 02:47, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

If the fact that Red appears in Mt. Silver and Leaf doesn't appear at all were enough to outright suggest that only one of them can exist in canon, then there wouldn't even be any canonicity debates to begin with. However, the one and only text reference in the original Generation II games that explicity implies Red came from Copycat, something that can easily be changed to be gender-neutral in a remake. Even back in Generation II, they said Team Rocket was broken up three years ago by "a kid", which in Genration IV context would imply either Red or Leaf. And odds are the writers wouldn't insert any new text that would explicitly imply Red is the only canon character from the three-years-ago timeline, especially since they took the trouble of perfecting Leaf to begin with. (Yes, I said perfecting--female player characters were taken into consideration as far back as the original concepts for the Japanese Red and Green, but weren't implemented until Crystal due to technical restrictions.)

Furthermore, Red's team at Mt. Silver is based primarily on other forms of Pokémon media, primarily Ash from the anime, but also in Generation II from Red in Pokémon Special (this would explain Espeon). As far as we're concerned, if the depiction of Red is not fully video-game-based, then nobody has a place to say that Leaf has absolutely no place in canon simply because Red's there and Leaf's not.

In closing: The Leaf mentions stay. To remove them would imply that the Generation I games were the one and only proper canon for the three-years-ago story, and that FireRed/LeafGreen themselves are non-canonical, and that in turn would put some doubt on HeartGold/SoulSilver's canonicity. Whether the Leaf mentions remain in the current wording or not, that remains to be seen. --Shiningpikablu252 03:26, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

"If the fact that Red appears in Mt. Silver and Leaf doesn't appear at all were enough to outright suggest that only one of them can exist in canon, then there wouldn't even be any canonicity debates to begin with."

The point is - Leaf's story from FR/LG isn't canon. Red and Leaf can't both be the kid who defeated Team Rocket and became the regional Kanto champion in the same continuity.

"However, the one and only text reference in the original Generation II games that explicity implies Red came from Copycat, something that can easily be changed to be gender-neutral in a remake. Even back in Generation II, they said Team Rocket was broken up three years ago by "a kid", which in Genration IV context would imply either Red or Leaf."

If that was the case, I wouldn't have a problem with leaving the kid's identity's ambiguous. However, you're wrong. Blue stated that he was defeated by Red (yes, he mentioned his name) after he became champion when you meet him in Cinnabar Island.

"Furthermore, Red's team at Mt. Silver is based primarily on other forms of Pokémon media, primarily Ash from the anime, but also in Generation II from Red in Pokémon Special (this would explain Espeon). As far as we're concerned, if the depiction of Red is not fully video-game-based, then nobody has a place to say that Leaf has absolutely no place in canon simply because Red's there and Leaf's not."

Not really. Special Red's team was based on GSC Red's, not the other way around.

GSC and HG/SS Red's team is based on the four Gen I starters (Pikachu, Venusaur, Charizard and Blastoise) and Pokémon that Red canonically met in Gen I (he got Eevee from that man in Celadon, Lapras from that Silph scientist, and Snorlax when he met it blocking the path to Fuchsia). The only part of HG/SS Red's team that is a reference to other media is Pikachu, as it has the same moves as the anime Pikachu.

"In closing: The Leaf mentions stay. To remove them would imply that the Generation I games were the one and only proper canon for the three-years-ago story, and that FireRed/LeafGreen themselves are non-canonical, and that in turn would put some doubt on HeartGold/SoulSilver's canonicity. Whether the Leaf mentions remain in the current wording or not, that remains to be seen."

What? You're saying that for FR/LG to be canon, Leaf has to exist? How does that work? Last time I checked, FR/LG presented two alternate continuities: one where Red traveling Kanto, collecting badges, defeating Team Rocket, and becoming the Kanto champion. The other one was identical except for Leaf taking Red's place. You're telling me that both continuity are canon within the same timeline? How is that even possible? You're saying that Team Rocket took over Silph, was defeated by Red (or Leaf) and ran away, then decided to come back and take over Silph once again, just to be defeated by Leaf (or Red)? That Giovanni was defeated by Red (or Leaf) in his Gym and disbanded TR, then had a change of mind and went back to the gym, then was defeated by the other player character and decided to disband TR once again? That the S.S. Anne sailed from Vermilion City two times (nevermind the fact that it was said that it only comes back once every year)? That Kanto had TWO regional champions? That...

Sorry, but no. The kid who became the Kanto champion and defeated Giovanni and TR was either Red OR Leaf, not both. And since HG/SS blatantly stated that Red was the Kanto champion (therefore canonizing Red's story from FR/LG), then Leaf has no place in the timeline. - Crystal Master 04:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

GS was a continuation of RB. It had Red at the end coz Red was the player character. How is your copy of HGSS going to know which gender you played as in FRLG? It makes sense to simply approximate the whole story to Red's journey only. Leaf's journey exists in the FRLG canon, true it is blissfully ignored, but it still exists and to that extent we as Bulbapedians are bound to cover it. —darklordtrom 04:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

He has a point though. The one that Giovanni lost to is the same person at the summit of Mt. Silver. Who is that person? Red. Not Leaf. I'm not saying to deny her existence. But the point is that she's not the one at Mt. Silver. Red is. It's that simple. Unless I'm wrong and someone can prove that if you play as Kotone and Leaf will appear instead, then that's basically the case. --ケンジのガール 05:26, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

"if you play as Kotone and Leaf will appear instead"

That actually sounds plausible, make sense to me. Can anyone check that? Drake Clawfang 05:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I plan on doing it once my game arrives. --ケンジのガール 05:37, 22 September 2009 (UTC)