Talk:Barry (anime)
This page belongs in the anime section of the game character. We have it for almost all the other game characters that appear in the anime so why should this be any different. Jmath 14:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Because he's different. He's a Cross-canon counterpart. It would be just like having Ash as a subsection of Red's article. --Maxim 14:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- No he isn't. Jun is basically the same character. Unlike Ash and Red who have some differences. Jmath 14:08, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Shut up, he is! He's a Cross-canon counterpart. We have articles on all Cross-canon counterparts: Ash, Gary, Jimmy, Marina, Vincent May and Dawn, we also have articles on ALL manga counterparts, then why not on Jun, too? He's got a FULL appearance, unlike Silver, Brendan and Lucas, so he fully deserves a specific article. He is also a MAIN game rival (unlike Wally, who didn't appear in anime, but if he did, he would deserve nothing more than an anime subsection in the game article). Remember for your life - Cross-canon counterpart = Different Character! --Maxim 14:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- They can only be cross-canon counterparts if one of the characters are based off on the other. But Jun is exactly the same as his game character. Personality, Pokémon, everything. Jmath 14:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, that's not true. Any MAIN character counterpart is considered different (except the mentioned three, whose appearances weren't long enough) and please, don't say anything about his personality. That's what we call gun-jumping. We don't even really know what Pokémon will he posess. Rival counterpart = Different character. It's a thing you just have to remember. Don't act like you know more than me about Pokémon. --Maxim 14:17, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- We don't even know if Jun will be appearing again. And even if Jun is different so should the countless number of game characters that appeared in the show. Jmath 14:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Jimmy also appeared for only one episode (though I agree that he SHOULD NOT be put to the template). So, your logic fails. He's an Inter-Media Counterpart not matter if you like it or not. --Maxim 14:22, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- I was not talking about Jimmy. I'm talking about all the gym leaders, game villains, Elite 4, heck even Cheryl and Mira. Jmath 14:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Then why does Jimmy have an article about him in your opinion? He's just an one-time character, so shouldn't he be just a subsection of Gold according to your logic? The Gym Leaders, Villains, Elite 4 and Other Characters you mentioned are actually the same characters in all canons they appear. It's generally accepted that only counterparts of MAIN game characters count as separate characters. Main characters = Game protagonists, Rivals (the characters you can name, in general). It's a generally-accepted standard and Jun meets it. So, don't argue. --Maxim 14:29, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Jmath does have a point, Dawn's mother doesn't have an article, and she's pretty important, I would even say more important than Jun, because Johanna has a relation to Dawn. I don't see why Jun would deserve his own article. When Johanna even doesn't. --Dman dustin 14:32, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- FAIL. Johanna is not a MAIN game characters, not a rival or protagonist, she is just a mother. She may be important in the anime, in the games she's not. So, her anime incarnation DOES NOT deserve an article. Your argument failed like a bomb in ocean. --Maxim 14:34, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Jimmy isn't exactly same as Gold. They're still different just as Ash and Red are different. And by your logic, May and Dawn should go also be in the games page. Jmath 14:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, they shouldn't. Because they are protagonists/rivals. My main criteria is not the importance of the character in the other canon, name difference or design differences but rather his ROLE IN THE GAME. This is a criteria everyone here agrees with. You're arguing with me for no reason. And you keep losing. --Maxim 14:40, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Jimmy isn't exactly same as Gold. They're still different just as Ash and Red are different. And by your logic, May and Dawn should go also be in the games page. Jmath 14:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- FAIL. Johanna is not a MAIN game characters, not a rival or protagonist, she is just a mother. She may be important in the anime, in the games she's not. So, her anime incarnation DOES NOT deserve an article. Your argument failed like a bomb in ocean. --Maxim 14:34, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Jmath does have a point, Dawn's mother doesn't have an article, and she's pretty important, I would even say more important than Jun, because Johanna has a relation to Dawn. I don't see why Jun would deserve his own article. When Johanna even doesn't. --Dman dustin 14:32, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Then why does Jimmy have an article about him in your opinion? He's just an one-time character, so shouldn't he be just a subsection of Gold according to your logic? The Gym Leaders, Villains, Elite 4 and Other Characters you mentioned are actually the same characters in all canons they appear. It's generally accepted that only counterparts of MAIN game characters count as separate characters. Main characters = Game protagonists, Rivals (the characters you can name, in general). It's a generally-accepted standard and Jun meets it. So, don't argue. --Maxim 14:29, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- I was not talking about Jimmy. I'm talking about all the gym leaders, game villains, Elite 4, heck even Cheryl and Mira. Jmath 14:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Jimmy also appeared for only one episode (though I agree that he SHOULD NOT be put to the template). So, your logic fails. He's an Inter-Media Counterpart not matter if you like it or not. --Maxim 14:22, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- We don't even know if Jun will be appearing again. And even if Jun is different so should the countless number of game characters that appeared in the show. Jmath 14:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, that's not true. Any MAIN character counterpart is considered different (except the mentioned three, whose appearances weren't long enough) and please, don't say anything about his personality. That's what we call gun-jumping. We don't even really know what Pokémon will he posess. Rival counterpart = Different character. It's a thing you just have to remember. Don't act like you know more than me about Pokémon. --Maxim 14:17, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- They can only be cross-canon counterparts if one of the characters are based off on the other. But Jun is exactly the same as his game character. Personality, Pokémon, everything. Jmath 14:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Professor Oak, Professor Birch, Professor Elm, Professor Rowan also don't have their own articles (And argue all you want but Professor OAK IS IMPORTANT IN THE GAMES). And plus what you said makes no sense, how is a parent/relative less important than a game rival? Add to the fact we have articles of COTD's and still other characters don't have their own articles. SO YOUR LOGIC FAILS. --Dman dustin 14:44, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, it does not fail. The Professors are important, but they're not MAIN characters. And saying that protagonist's parent who just sits in house and sometimes enter Contests is more important that the game rival is just RIDICULOUS. Please, don't insist that you know anything about the things you have no idea about. It's what I hate the most in people like you. --Maxim 14:48, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Then why the hell do we have articles of people who only showed up once in the anime when these characters I mentioned showed up more than once. See that doesn't make sense. Sure argue I don't know what the hell I'm talking about but you don't either. --Dman dustin 14:50, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Please, leave COTDs away. They are completely unrelated here. They are completely unrelated to the game characters we are currently talking about. If they appeared in the game, they would have one articles on all their incarnations, but they NEVER appear in the games, so they have only one article - about their one and only incarnation - the anime one. So sorry, you fail again. Your reasons are one of the most stupid ones I've heard in awhile. --Maxim 14:54, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- IT MAKES NO SENSE. Why is Jun so important, just because he's a damn rival protaginist? If Jun appears only once he's just akin to a COTD. So he get's his own article (just like COTD's). Again it makes no sense. Jun could not important at all, his anime team mirrors his team in the games, which I can't say the same about Professor Oak, Johanna, Professor Elm, and blah blah blah, because they have differences between the two. Professor Oak never had Dragonite in the games, and Johanna never had a Glameow in the games (she only had a Kangaskhan).You know I can understand that it would make some articles with little information(a paragraph at the most). But remember COTD's information really small (just pointing to the connection not importance). And besides if Johanna's game information was so damn important, it would show up on this page http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mom. And when I pointed to the COTDs, you totally missed the point. See your arguement is if they didn't have a important role in the games they don't deserve their own article. Okay I get it but why is it when they aren't important to the anime they deserve their own article. Isn't that a double standard? --Dman dustin 15:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- He may be a COTD in the anime but in the game he's a MAIN character and all his Cross-canon incarnations count as separate characters. It's you who started mixing random characters to this. They have no bearing here. They're a separate issue. And the fact that they possess different Pokémon than in the games doesn't reflect anything. It's about the characters, not their Pokémon. Please leave non-protagonist characters alone, they're a separate issue. And do you realise that the thing about COTDs you mentioned are actually an argument IN FAVOUR of having an article on Jun. You're contradicting yourself. I could use your arguements against you if I wanted it, but I don't feel like doing it. You have weak and newbish reasons. I'm sick of debating with people like you. --Maxim 15:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Like me? Damn if you are so sure you know anything about me, write my biography. And no I wasn't contradicting myself I was making a connection. It's only a contradiction when I'm adamant about Jun not having an article. In fact I have no problem with it, the problem I do have is that while Jun has it's own articles, certain characters don't. And hell if COTD was any indication of anything, it would mean we would have articles about Johanna, Professor Oak because hell they showed up in the anime, don't they deserve their own anime articles. Who cares that they have game information? And again it's all double standards. Oh but I suppose YOU don't have a problem with it.--Dman dustin 15:32, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- I forgot, when I said Jun could be like COTD, I meant that it "should" be on his game page, just like Professor Oak, and Johanna. But again double standards.--Dman dustin 15:36, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Like me? Damn if you are so sure you know anything about me, write my biography. And no I wasn't contradicting myself I was making a connection. It's only a contradiction when I'm adamant about Jun not having an article. In fact I have no problem with it, the problem I do have is that while Jun has it's own articles, certain characters don't. And hell if COTD was any indication of anything, it would mean we would have articles about Johanna, Professor Oak because hell they showed up in the anime, don't they deserve their own anime articles. Who cares that they have game information? And again it's all double standards. Oh but I suppose YOU don't have a problem with it.--Dman dustin 15:32, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- He may be a COTD in the anime but in the game he's a MAIN character and all his Cross-canon incarnations count as separate characters. It's you who started mixing random characters to this. They have no bearing here. They're a separate issue. And the fact that they possess different Pokémon than in the games doesn't reflect anything. It's about the characters, not their Pokémon. Please leave non-protagonist characters alone, they're a separate issue. And do you realise that the thing about COTDs you mentioned are actually an argument IN FAVOUR of having an article on Jun. You're contradicting yourself. I could use your arguements against you if I wanted it, but I don't feel like doing it. You have weak and newbish reasons. I'm sick of debating with people like you. --Maxim 15:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Then why the hell do we have articles of people who only showed up once in the anime when these characters I mentioned showed up more than once. See that doesn't make sense. Sure argue I don't know what the hell I'm talking about but you don't either. --Dman dustin 14:50, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- No, it does not fail. The Professors are important, but they're not MAIN characters. And saying that protagonist's parent who just sits in house and sometimes enter Contests is more important that the game rival is just RIDICULOUS. Please, don't insist that you know anything about the things you have no idea about. It's what I hate the most in people like you. --Maxim 14:48, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Adding to the fire, but, seriously, the answer to the problem is in his name. If his game article is going to be called "Pearl (game)", then "Jun (anime)" should deserve his own page, BECAUSE he's not called Pearl. GLs, the five partners, all direct game references with no name changes don't deserve their own separate page.
HOWEVER. Jun's game name defaults as Pearl. He is not Pearl. He is Jun (and hopefully, in the future, Barry). He should get his own paged based on the fact that he isn't called his default game name, just like Ash isn't called Red and Gary isn't called Green/Blue. Riley will still be Riley, Winona was still Winona. Pearl isn't Jun, and it isn't fair to designate him under Pearl simply because nothing changed about him personally. They'll act the same, but Gary acted the same way as his game C/P all through Kanto, and if this was then, Gary still would have gotten his own page. Luna Tiger * the Arc Toraph 15:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- I have no problem with Gary or Ash from the anime because it's obvious they are slightly different then their Game counterparts. When we have Jun who is exactly like his game counterpart only his name is different is the problem. Jun looks exactly like Pearl (game) and most likely has the same team (3 of his 6 are). Forget it....... I don't care anymore, have your weird Bulbapedia format, where a game rival is more important than a game/anime article character is related to an anime article character.--Dman dustin 16:01, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, here's why he's not under Pearl's page.
Because he's not Pearl any more than Gary Oak is Blue. Remember, Gary was as much a jerk as Blue. They even both said "smell ya later" I believe. Gary's team may not be based on Blue's in any games, but so what? What's to say Jun's last three Pokémon aren't something completely random?
He has the same clothes. Great. He has the same team. Great. Gary has the same clothes as Blue in both RGBY and FRLG and he's got a separate article.
The title of the episode is Rival Trainer Jun Appears! not Rival Trainer Pearl Appears!. His name is Jun. Not Pearl. Just like how Kenta, not Gold, and Marina, not Crys, appeared in the Legend of Thunder special. Brendan and Lucas weren't given separate names nor even much of an appearance, but Jun appears in an episode titled after and focusing on him. Jimmy and Marina do the same in LOT, though they didn't exactly name the thing.
Essentially, though, here's what it is: Game protagonists and rivals who appear in the anime get a separate page for their anime iteration if their role is large enough. Silver appeared in the opening for LOT, and nothing else (plus Silver is that old guy who everyone knows thinks is the idiot's dad anyway). Brendan was in the opening segment of three movies, but did little more than send out one Pokémon and order it to use a move. Whoo, give the man a page. No really. He's not notable enough in the anime for his own page. Lucas does even less; he battled only ONCE in a movie opening.
Plus, well, with the exception of May and Dawn, all of the game protagonists and antagonists have different names from their anime counterparts. Satoshi, not Red. Shigeru, not Green. Kenta, not Gold. Marina, not Crys. Jun, not Pearl.
In closing.
| CERULEAN CITY → | |
| Gary was here Ash is a loser! | |
TTEchidna 20:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks, TTE! Anyway, would you mind unblocking the page. There are things I would change. There is no proof that he's from Twinleaf. I would also delete the template. There is no proof that he'll be a recurring rival. I know the page was created pretty early but I'm a bit sick of the fact that Bulbapedia Admins block EVERYTHING lately. The blocked pages are usually the ones I want to edit. It sometimes feels that the admins simply want to use their powers. Please unblock the page, you won't regret it. --Maxim 11:17, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
