https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=ViskivBulbapedia - User contributions [en]2026-06-24T09:54:00ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.43.8https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Boomburst_(move)&diff=2014367Boomburst (move)2013-11-12T09:52:58Z<p>Viskiv: /* Effect */ Changed wording to be consistent with Hyper Voice.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{MoveInfobox|<br />
n=9000<!--unknown-->|<br />
name=Boomburst|<br />
jname=ばくおんぱ |<br />
jtrans=Sound Wave Explosion|<br />
jtranslit=Bakuonpa |<br />
gameimage=XY Prerelease Noivern Boomburst.png|<br />
gameimagewidth=300|<br />
type=Normal |<br />
damagecategory=Special |<br />
basepp=10 |<br />
maxpp=16 |<br />
power=140 |<br />
accuracy=100 |<br />
gen=VI |<br />
touches=no |<br />
protect=yes |<br />
magiccoat=no |<br />
snatch=no |<br />
brightpowder=yes |<br />
kingsrock=yes |<br />
flag7=no |<br />
flag8=no |<br />
sound=yes |<br />
target=alladjacent |<br />
footnotes= }}<br />
<br />
'''Boomburst''' (Japanese: '''ばくおんぱ''' ''Sound Wave Explosion'') is a damage-dealing {{type|Normal}} [[move]] introduced in [[Generation VI]].<br />
<br />
==Effect==<br />
Boomburst does damage to all adjacent Pokémon, including allies. Pokémon with the [[Ability]] [[Soundproof (Ability)|Soundproof]] will not be affected by this move.<br />
<br />
==Description==<br />
{{movedesc|Normal}}<br />
{{movedescentry|{{gameabbrev3|XY}}|The user attacks everything around it with the destructive power of a terrible, explosive sound.}}<br />
|}<br />
|}{{left clear}}<br />
<br />
==Learnset==<br />
===By [[Level|leveling up]]===<br />
{{Moveheader/Level|Normal|6}}<br />
{{Moveentry/Level6|295|Exploud|1|Normal|Normal|--, 85|STAB='''}}<br />
{{Moveentry/Level6|715|Noivern|2|Flying|Dragon|--, 75}}<br />
{{Movefooter|Normal|6}}<br />
<br />
===By {{pkmn|breeding}}===<br />
{{Moveheader/Breed|Normal|6}}<br />
{{Moveentry/Breed6|441|Chatot|2|Normal|Flying|{{MSP|715|Noivern}}|STAB='''}}<br />
{{Movefooter|Normal|6}}<br />
<br />
==In the anime==<br />
{{moveanime|type=normal|exp=yes|gen=The user attacks with powerful sound waves.|image1=Alexa Noivern Boomburst.png|image1p=Noivern}}<br />
{{movep|type=normal|ms=715|pkmn=Noivern|method=The insides of Noivern's ears glow light blue, then let loose powerful sound waves at the opponent.}}<br />
{{movebtm|type=normal|user=Alexa|user1=Alexa's Noivern|startcode=BW137|startname=Celebrating the Hero's Comet!|notes=Debut}}<br />
<br />
==In other languages==<br />
{{Langtable|color={{normal color}}|bordercolor={{normal color light}}<br />
|de=Überschallknall<br />
|es=Estruendo<br />
|fr=Bang Sonique<br />
|it=Ondaboato<br />
|ko=폭음파 ''Pok'eumpa''}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
{{Project Moves and Abilities notice}}<br />
<br />
[[de:Überschallknall]]<br />
<br />
[[fr:Bang Sonique]]<br />
[[ja:ばくおんぱ]]<br />
[[zh:爆音波（技能）]]</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Plasma_Blast_(TCG)&diff=1966256Plasma Blast (TCG)2013-09-12T14:51:31Z<p>Viskiv: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{ExpansionPrevNext| prev=Plasma Freeze | next=Legendary Treasures }}<br />
{{TCGExpansionInfobox<br />
| setname = Plasma Blast<br />
| jasetname = メガロキャノン<br />
| transsetname = Megalo Cannon<br />
| setsymbol = yes<br />
| setlogo = PlasmaBlastEnglishLogo.png<br />
| encards = 105<br />
| jacards = 86<br />
| ensetnum = 57<br />
| enrelease = August 14, 2013<br />
| jasetnum = 54<br />
| deck1 = {{tcg|Mind Wipe}}<br />
| deck1type = {{e|Grass}} {{e|Psychic}}<br />
| deck2 = {{tcg|Solar Strike}}<br />
| deck2type = {{e|Fire}} {{e|Water}}<br />
| jarelease = March 15, 2013<br />
| prevset = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| japrevset = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| japrevsetname = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| nextset = EX Battle Boost<br />
| janextset = EX Battle Boost<br />
| janextsetname = EX Battle Boost<br />
|}}<br />
'''Plasma Blast''' (Japanese: '''メガロキャノン''' ''Megalo Cannon'') is the name given to the 10th main expansion of cards from the English Black & White Series of the Pokémon Trading Card Game. The Japanese release is the ninth of the BW era.<br />
<br />
==Information==<br />
'''Plasma Blast''' and the Japanese equivalent '''Megalo Cannon''' feature the debut of {{p|Genesect}} in the [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]], as well as [[Team Plasma]], their Pokémon, and for the first time since their debut in {{TCG|Plasma Storm}}, cards designed to specifically counter Team Plasma. Along with the typical Pokémon and {{TCG|Trainer card}}s, Megalo Cannon sports {{TCG|Pokémon-EX}} cards, {{TCG|Ace Spec card}}s, a {{TCG|Special Energy card}}, {{TCG|Full Art card}}s, and [[Shiny Pokémon|Shiny]] {{TCG|Secret card}}s, totaling 86 cards. The set was released on March 15th, 2013 in Japan accompanied by the {{TCG|Blastoise + Kyurem-EX Combo Deck}}.<br />
<br />
In order to help defend against Team Plasma's onslaught, [[Unova]] champion [[Iris]] is present alongside [[Caitlin]], a member of the [[Unova]] [[Elite Four]]. Six {{TCG|Pokémon-EX}} are included: {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|9}}, {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|51}}, {{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kyurem-EX|30}} and Team Plasma's {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|10}}, {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|53}}, and {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|54}}. Many of the Pokémon present are not from [[Generation V]], but instead are Pokémon from older Generations, some of which not featured in the Card Game since the Diamond & Pearl Series. <br />
<br />
Megalo Cannon is only the third set of the BW Era to feature [[Fossil]]s, the first two being {{TCG|Red Collection}} and {{TCG|Dark Rush}}. {{p|Archen}} and {{p|Tirtouga}} are given their second cards, while {{p|Lileep}} is given its first printing as a {{TCG|Restored Pokémon}}. {{TCG|Plume Fossil}} and {{TCG|Cover Fossil}} are reprinted, and a new fossil Trainer card, {{TCG|Root Fossil Lileep}} is included in favor over the old {{TCG|Root Fossil}} in order to prevent confusion over how the card should work. The expansion is the first to feature new [[Technical Machine]]-like {{TCG|Pokémon Tool card}}s with attacks present on them.<br />
<br />
A special promotional card was given to those who purchased a booster box of Megalo Cannon in stores. This promotional card was {{TCG ID|BW-P Promo|Porygon-Z|208}}, a reprint with new artwork of the same Pokémon in the expansion.<br />
<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Additional cards|tablecol=2b96c4|bordercol=531872|cellcol=531872|rarity=yes|symbol=no}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|10/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect|10}}|Grass|||Cracked Ice Holo {{TCG|Mind Wipe}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|13/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Volcarona|13}}|Fire|||Cracked Ice Holo {{TCG|Solar Strike}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|16/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Blastoise|16}}|Water|||Non Holo {{TCG|Solar Strike}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|46/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golurk|46}}|Psychic|||Non Holo {{TCG|Mind Wipe}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=70daf4|rarity=yes|promo=yes}}<br />
<br />
==Card list==<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="{{{class|}}} multicol" style="background:{{{bgColor|transparent}}}; width:{{{width|100%}}};"<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Plasma Blast|tablecol=2b96c4|bordercol=531872|cellcol=531872|rarity=yes|symbol=no}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|1/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Surskit|1}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|2/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Masquerain|2}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|3/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lileep|3}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|4/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Cradily|4}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|5/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tropius|5}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|6/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Karrablast|6}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|7/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Shelmet|7}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|8/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Accelgor|8}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|9/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion-EX|9}}|Grass||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|10/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect|10}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|11/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect-EX|11}}|Grass||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|12/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Larvesta|12}}|Fire||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|13/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Volcarona|13}}|Fire||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|14/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Squirtle|14}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|15/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Wartortle|15}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|16/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Blastoise|16}}|Water||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|17/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lapras|17}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|18/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Remoraid|18}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|19/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Octillery|19}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|20/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Suicune|20}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|21/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Snorunt|21}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|22/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Glalie|22}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|23/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Froslass|23}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|24/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Relicanth|24}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|25/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Snover|25}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|26/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Abomasnow|26}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|27/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tirtouga|27}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|28/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Carracosta|28}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|29/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ducklett|29}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|30/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kyurem-EX|30}}|Water||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|31/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tynamo|31}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|32/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Eelektrik|32}}|Lightning||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|33/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Eelektross|33}}|Lightning||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|34/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Drifloon|34}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|35/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Drifblim|35}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|36/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Uxie|36}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|37/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Mesprit|37}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|38/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Azelf|38}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|39/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Munna|39}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|40/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Musharna|40}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|41/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Sigilyph|41}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|42/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Solosis|42}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|43/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Duosion|43}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|44/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Reuniclus|44}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|45/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golett|45}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|46/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golurk|46}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|47/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machop|47}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|48/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machoke|48}}|Fighting||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|49/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machamp|49}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|50/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machamp|50}}|Fighting||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|51/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Throh|51}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|52/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Sawk|52}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|53/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Archen|53}}|Fighting||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|54/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Archeops|54}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|55/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Houndour|55}}|Darkness||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|56/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Houndoom|56}}|Darkness||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|57/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Aron|57}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|58/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lairon|58}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|59/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Aggron|59}}|Metal||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|60/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Jirachi-EX|60}}|Metal||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|61/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Escavalier|61}}|Metal||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|62/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Bagon|62}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|63/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Shelgon|63}}|Dragon||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|64/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Salamence|64}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|65/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dialga-EX|65}}|Dragon||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|66/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Palkia-EX|66}}|Dragon||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|67/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Axew|67}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|68/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Fraxure|68}}|Dragon||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|69/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Haxorus|69}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|70/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Druddigon|70}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|71/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kangaskhan|71}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|72/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon|72}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|73/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon2|73}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|74/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon-Z|74}}|Colorless||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|75/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Teddiursa|75}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|76/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ursaring|76}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|77/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Chatot|77}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|78/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Caitlin|78}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|79/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Cover Fossil|79}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|80/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Energy Retrieval|80}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|81/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Iris|81}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|82/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Plume Fossil|82}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|83/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Pokémon Catcher|83}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|84/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Professor Juniper|84}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|85/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Rare Candy|85}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|86/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Reversal Trigger|86}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|87/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Root Fossil Lileep|87}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|88/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Silver Bangle|88}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|89/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Silver Mirror|89}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|90/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ultra Ball|90}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|91/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Plasma Energy|91}}|Energy|Colorless|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|92/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|G Booster|92}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|93/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|G Scope|93}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|94/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Master Ball|94}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|95/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Scoop Up Cyclone|95}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|96/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion-EX|96}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|97/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect-EX|97}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|98/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Jirachi-EX|98}}|Metal||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|99/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dialga-EX|99}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|100/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Palkia-EX|100}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|101/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Iris|101}}|Supporter||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|102/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Exeggcute|102}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|103/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion|103}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|104/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dusknoir|104}}|Psychic||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|105/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Rare Candy|105}}|Item||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=531872}}<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Megalo Cannon|tablecol=dcdaff|bordercol=c2a853|cellcol=c2a853|rarity=yes|symbol=yes|image=SetSymbolMegalo Cannon.png}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|001/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Surskit|1}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|002/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Masquerain|2}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|003/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lileep|3}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|004/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Cradily|4}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|005/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tropius|5}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|006/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Karrablast|6}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|007/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Shelmet|7}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|008/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Accelgor|8}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|009/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|9}}|Grass||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|010/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|10}}|Grass||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|011/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Larvesta|11}}|Fire||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|012/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Volcarona|12}}|Fire||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|013/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lapras|13}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|014/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Remoraid|14}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|015/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Octillery|15}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|016/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Snorunt|16}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|017/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Glalie|17}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|018/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Relicanth|18}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|019/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Snover|19}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|020/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Abomasnow|20}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|021/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tirtouga|21}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|022/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Carracosta|22}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|023/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tynamo|23}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|024/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Eelektrik|24}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|025/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Eelektross|25}}|Lightning||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|026/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Drifloon|26}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|027/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Drifblim|27}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|028/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Uxie|28}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|029/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Mesprit|29}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|030/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Azelf|30}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|031/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Munna|31}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|032/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Musharna|32}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|033/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Sigilyph|33}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|034/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Solosis|34}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|035/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Duosion|35}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|036/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Reuniclus|36}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|037/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Golett|37}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|038/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Golurk|38}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|039/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machop|39}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|040/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machoke|40}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|041/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machamp|41}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|042/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Throh|42}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|043/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Sawk|43}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|044/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Archen|44}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|045/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Archeops|45}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|046/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Houndour|46}}|Darkness||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|047/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Houndoom|47}}|Darkness||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|048/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Aron|48}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|049/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lairon|49}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|050/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Aggron|50}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|051/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|51}}|Metal||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|052/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Escavalier|52}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|053/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|53}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|054/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|54}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|055/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Axew|55}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|056/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Fraxure|56}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|057/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Haxorus|57}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|058/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Druddigon|58}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|059/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon|59}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|060/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon2|60}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|061/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon-Z|61}}|Colorless||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|062/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Teddiursa|62}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|063/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Ursaring|63}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|064/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Chatot|64}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|065/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Root Fossil Lileep|65}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|066/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Plume Fossil|66}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|067/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Cover Fossil|67}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|068/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Silver Bangle|68}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|069/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Silver Mirror|69}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|070/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Reversal Trigger|70}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|071/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Iris|71}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|072/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Caitlin|72}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|073/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Scoop Up Cyclone|73}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|074/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|G Scope|74}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|075/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|G Booster|75}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|076/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Plasma Energy|76}}|Energy|Colorless|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|077/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|77}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|078/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|78}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|079/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|79}}|Metal||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|080/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|80}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|081/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|81}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|082/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Iris|82}}|Supporter||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|083/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Exeggcute|83}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|084/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion|84}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|085/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dusknoir|85}}|Psychic||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|086/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Rare Candy|86}}|Item||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=dcdaff}}<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Project TCG notice}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{TCG Releases|BW}}<br />
<br />
<br />
[[de:Megalo Cannon (TCG)]]<br />
[[ja:ポケモンカードゲームBW 拡張パック メガロキャノン]]<br />
[[zh:巨大加农（TCG）]]<br />
[[zh:Plasma Blast（TCG）]]</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Werdnae/Archive_4&diff=1965549User talk:Werdnae/Archive 42013-09-11T03:32:12Z<p>Viskiv: /* Plasma Blast */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Werdnae/Nav}}<br />
{| cellspacing="3" cellpadding="2" width="100%" style="border: #000 3px solid; {{roundy|20px}}"<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| cellspacing="4" cellpadding="5" width="100%" style="background: #FFFFFF; border: #{{black color}} 3px solid; {{roundy|20px}}"<br />
|-<br />
|{{User:Werdnae/Archive|ndex=330|HP=364|type=Ground|type2=Dragon}}<br />
|- align="center"<br />
|<big>'''''New messages to the bottom please. If you post here I will reply here, If I post a comment on another page I will likely be watching it, so please keep the discussion there. Otherwise it gets too hard to follow the conversation.<br/>Please leave any talk page maintenance, including the removal of rule-breaking comments, to a {{Bp|staff|staff member}}.'''''</big><br />
|-<br />
| <!--PLEASE DO NOT CLOSE THE TABLE. IT IS SUPPOSED TO COVER THE PAGE LIKE IT IS-->|<br />
<br />
== Typebattle template title "Resist" is mathematically inaccurate with current values. ==<br />
<br />
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Template:Typebattle<br />
<br />
Saying resist is mathematically incorrect if you keep the numbers as multiplication values.<br />
<br />
Its valid for the 1/2x part since when you resist half the damage you take the other half.<br />
<br />
However you are not resisting 2x the damage. That would be the same as resisting 200% of the attack. Resisting 100% or more would result in taking no damage at all. Resisting 0% would mean that you are resisting no damage and therefore taking 100% of the initial amount.<br />
<br />
If you want to stick with the values being multipliers to the original attack i would recommend you to use another word like multiplyer, power or effectiveness.<br />
<br />
The protected source is here : http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Typebattle&action=edit<br />
<br />
[[User:DavidGuld|DavidGuld]] 15:01, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:You're right, resist is wrong there. I changed it to power so it matched the other half of the template. Thanks for pointing it out. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:06, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== If you're not busy ==<br />
<br />
Is it okay to use the HP bar on my talk page? [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 22:04, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Sure. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I'm going to create one on my own page. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 23:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Here ==<br />
<br />
[[Team Aqua|Here]] and [[James|here]]. One says Pokémon Yellow, while another says In Ruby or In Sapphire, etc. Which would be the most correct?--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 12:46, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thing is, James has only appeared in Pokémon Yellow, where as Team Aqua has appeared in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald. So in this case, it's fine the way it is.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#424B50">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#848A8D">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#E3CED0">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EDDFE0">ire</span>]] 12:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::No, I meant as a general thing. Not specifically referring to these articles.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 12:56, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Also [[A.J.|here]], there 3 examples.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 13:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::As I said when you last brought it up: "I'd say they don't all need to be the same. It depends more on the layout and phrasing of the sections." <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:57, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::I know what you said. That's why I ask how exactly it depends and I thought I should give you some examples.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 21:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Would you mind if we leave this until after B2W2? I'm kinda busy with that and non-Bulba stuff just at the moment, so I don't really have time to look into everything properly and therefore give a quality answer. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
Sure, why not. Just tell me when to remind you of it.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 11:42, 14 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== possible multiple accounts ==<br />
<br />
{{u|DerangedChillen}} and {{u|DementedChillen}} look like they could be the same user. [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 09:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, you're right. Thanks for letting me know. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 10:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::You're Welcome. [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 10:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== BW parameter ==<br />
<br />
I changed it to the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Ice_Burn_%28move%29&curid=117721&diff=1708520&oldid=1708519 GenV parameter] because when I previewed it with the BW one, it gave me a tiny dot for no reason. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 22:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Clear your cache. The parameter was just added to the template, looks like you were still getting a cached version. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Entries ==<br />
<br />
You probably can't translate them, but maybe you can write them? It took me few minutes just to get characters of location's Japanese name >_> ...so these will take much longer, especially as there is [http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg507/scaled.php?server=507&filename=bpkmnwh21014177.png&res=landing three] - Sewaddle, Mareep and Flaaffy. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 07:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Not a clue, sorry. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:30, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I do not ask to translate them, just to write them down to articles, as it is too much of pain for me. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 07:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah. I don't know how to type them either. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:53, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WarlordInfoBox Template ==<br />
<br />
With Oichi and Nobunga being brother and sister in the Pokémon Conquest game, would it be possible to have relatives added to the template? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 05:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I was unsure whether to add that or leave it for the body. I've added it to the template, but it'll only show up if the "Relatives" parameter is set. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
okay [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 05:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Conquest moves ==<br />
<br />
Can Conquest be added to (not sure of the name) template to be able to add a move description to the Pokémon pages? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 04:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:[[Template:Movedescentry]]? If so, done. Set the first parameter to "Conquest". <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:46, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Is it also possible for you to make it so I can add Conquest next to BW? A lot of the moves have the same description as the BW ones. --[[User:Funktastic~!|It&#39;s Funktastic~!]] ([[User talk:Funktastic~!|talk]]) 05:10, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::BWConquest. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I have found out that that different Pokémon of the same species can have different moves (Zebstrika is all I know so far) when they are linked. Can ConquestMove be changed to ConquestMove1 and ConquestMove2 so the 2nd move can be added? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 02:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Looking at the template, It's possible to add multiple moves to the cell using the one parameter, so just do that for now. If it's very common, we may want to change the layout, so if you notice any more can you let me know? Thanks. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Okay [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 03:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dispute ==<br />
<br />
Jo The Marten And I Are Having An Argument. Are People Allowed To Put Pokemon Templates On Mystery Dungeon Pages? [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 02:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Pokemon templates should only be used like that where there is something special about the Pokemon (Abnormal ability, abnormal moveset, etc.). There is absolutely nothing different between that Drowzee and any other wild level 12 Drowzee. It is therefore unnecessary to provide that extra information. The entry in the list is enough. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:23, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In That Case, What Is The Point Of The Templates On [[Amp Plains tribes]], The Pokemon On The Templates There Are No Different Then Any Other Of Their Species And Level. [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 04:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Because that's not a location article. It doesn't have a list. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It Shouldn't Matter That It's A Location Page. The Point Of Pages Like That Are To Make It Easy For Players To Gather Information From. [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 05:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:.[[Drowzee (Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky)]] That page is about Drowzee. As such, it has the full description, including the template. [[Mt. Bristle]] is about the location, and as such has to provide information on many Pokemon. Thus the information given on each is less so that the page is not bogged down with information which is, quite frankly, unnecessary. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Well, It Was A Common Mistake That I Made, Especially Since There Was No Link To [[Drowzee (Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky)]] On [[Mt. Bristle]]. {{unsigned|Badjb10}}<br />
<br />
== Impossible ==<br />
<br />
This user has behaved in an intimidating and harassing way. Please perform the appropriate action for him/her.--[[User:Muk-a-matic|Muk-a-matic-Maketh the Muk go round...]] ([[User talk:Muk-a-matic|talk]]) 23:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:This has been handled. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re:Templates ==<br />
<br />
no problem, i'll stop.[[User:Purrloin!|Purrloin]][[User talk:Purrloin!|!]] [[Purrloin|Meow!!!]] 22:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Template:User Want==<br />
Hey, I see you were the last one to edit the {{template|User Want}} template. Since that page is protected, could you please add B2W2 to the code? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 11:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Done. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
I don't know if you noticed it... there's a problem with the B2 part: there's not enought contrast between the letters and the background. I could hardly see the letters when I tested it. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry, I missed adding it to one part. is that better? <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
What have you done? I haven't noticed any change. The contrast is the same. Just change the background to black, please. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Ah, I missed another one. Sorry about that, it's fixed properly now. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
It's fixed now ty very much! [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:19, 1 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Protection==<br />
Hey, could you please protect this usertag: <nowiki>{{User:TheOriginalOne/User un}}</nowiki>? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I won't, simply beacuse it's in your userspace, so you need to take care of it. You can't if it gets protected. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
Now, could you please protect <nowiki>{{Template|Unown}}</nowiki>? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:You need to get permission from an admin to create new templates. In this case, the template takes almost as long to type as the code it replaces, so it is not worth having as a template. I should note that a template at that exact name with that exact function was deleted in december 2010 for precisely that reason. Pay attention to the warnings that are displayed when you are editing a page - the wiki should have told you that it had been deleted before and given the deletion log to explain why it was deleted. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:40, 3 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, I know that, I received the strike right after this new message (I tought that the permission rule was just for the usertags). They also told me that there was another one with precisely that function, {{template|uwr}}. About that, since that template is protected, could you please make non-capital letters valid for it?<br />
:About the warning... the delete reason was not enought clear for me; I didn't understand why. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding a Recently Created Page ==<br />
<br />
Hey. You seem to be the only staff member on at the moment, so I wanted to bring this to your attention. I'm not sure how to move it into {{u|Alexsummer}}'s userspace myself, and I don't want to mess anything up. Thanks! [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 03:04, 15 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Moved. You just move the page, select "User" from the namespace dropdown and put their username at the start followed by a slash. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Youtubevid==<br />
Hi, this problem has been bothering me since the very beggining of it... you know, that one with the youtubevid template, because it doesn't work since some months ago (yeah, when I try to preview with the old code, or even see an old version, the browser gives me an error). Now, I was wondering, do you know when it's going to be fixed, or have you even discovered what's the problem? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:44, 20 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:A recent Mediawiki upgrade broke the addon. We're looking into a replacement. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
At least it's going to be recovered... but do you have any info about when is it going to happen? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==AG132 Trainer's Choice Error==<br />
1. It is ''not'' an assumption. I have seen every single episode with a Trainer's Choice, and every single one that asked "Which would be most effective against..?" or "Which Pokémon has the advantage?", it ''always'' meant types. '''Always.'''<br />
2. If it's "still an error," why, pray tell, did you delete it?<br />
3. You should tell that to Dennou Zenshi. "Didn't I just remove it?" he/she says, as if he/she is infallible.<br />
4. I go to Talk pages to discuss something questionable. This is not questionable. It's quite obvious that Kirlia is being mistaken for a Grass-type. You wanna talk about assumption? Ask Dennou why he/she thinks that this TC could ''possibly'' be about Arcanine's ''stats'' and ''learnset''. Really?! That is laughably baseless. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 11:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It's not obvious at all that they mistook Kirlia for a Grass-type, since [[M06]] and [[AG109]] made it clear that Kirlia is a Psychic-type. On the other hand, it ''is'' obvious that the "legendary" Arcanine is better than Kirlia, who is weaker than many unevolved Pokémon. We can't assume that they made a mistake when there's a legitimate reason for their answer.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#AB0909">電</font><font color="#063A73">禅</font>]]<small>[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#fff" face="Tahoma"><span style="text-shadow:#000 0.2em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Den Zen</span></font>]]</small>''' 12:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::The anime is known to make errors in areas in which it has been correct before. Electric affects Ground, then it doesn't, then it does on Rhydon's horn, then it doesn't, then it does in Rhydon's mouth, then it doesn't, etc. If you still honestly believe that this TC subtly refers to stats, unlike every other TC of its kind, then go ahead and edit [[Trainer's Choice]]'s sections to pick ''your'' correct choice. There are many errors that end up being ties, with no Pokémon having an advantage over the stated one. Go ahead and compare every Pokémon's stats to every stated Pokémon's stats and see which is the "correct" one in every single erroneous TC. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 15:30, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Go ahead and look at Ag053's error. Combusken is stated as having an advantage over Kirlia. Now why would the writers do that, hm? Combusken is a mid-stage Pokémon like Kirlia and is roughly as strong, stat-wise. Maybe... ''they think Kirlia's a Grass-type?!'' --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]])<br />
:::My apologies, I should have only removed half of the point. Unless we can actually confirm from someone at 4kids that Kirlia was mistaken for a grass type, that part is an assumption as should not go on the page. It should simply state that the answer is incorrect based on types. Nothing else. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:41, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I still think that it's obvious, but fair enough. We include the error, exclude the assumption. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 01:10, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::While previous advantage based Trainer's Choice questions were about type advantages, nothing specifically demands that the AG132 question followed suit. You're making the assumption, based only on the questions of previous episodes, that this question must be in error. If it's not concrete in either direction, we should not be noting something that may or may not be true. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#DA70D6;">Kogoro</span>''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#FFB6C1;">Talk to me</span>''']] - 02:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ransei facility template. ==<br />
<br />
I've been putting together [[User:Chosen/RanseiFacility|a template for the kingdoms of Ransei]] that would list the Pokémon that appear in their various facilities. I almost have it completed, but there is a strange occurence that's causing the last check mark to appear elevated in a sort of way. Since you worked on the templates I based mine on, I was wondering if you had a solution? Thanks in advance. – [[User:Chosen|<span style="color:#F85888">Chosen</span>]] <span style="color:#6890F0">of</span> [[User talk:Chosen|<span style="color:#F8D030">Mana</span>]] 21:57, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:The line break after the final check mark is included in the cell. You need to put the noinclude (or in this case the opening comment tag) on the same line as the last check mark, then if you want line breaks they go inside that. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:21, 27 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== FRLG sprites ==<br />
<br />
Just saying that there are 3 extra, one for each [[:a:File:Spr 3f Venusaur credits.png|final]] [[:a:File:Spr 3f Charizard credits.png|form]] [[:a:File:Spr 3f Blastoise credits.png|starter]] (credits-exclusive). You might wanna include it in the sprite template (later or now, that's your choice), if you're still working on it. And yes, the 2nd frame is supposed to be blink-and-you'll-miss-it. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 15:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Help meh? ==<br />
<br />
Well, this is a bummer. I can't seem to edit my userpage, let alone start one. I think I made like 4-5 contrbutions to the wiki. What now?<br />
★☆[[User:Togetic45|<span style="color:red;">'''Toge'''</span>]][[User talk:Togetic45|<span style="color:grey;">'''tic'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|<span style="color:blue;">'''45'''</span>]]☆★<br />
:Keep editing the mainspace, you'll get to soon. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== If bumps are prohibited... ==<br />
<br />
...then how are abandoned discussions to be resolved? ''No one'' came to an agreement on the talk page. For over a month. Reverting edits to suppress the issue shouldn't even be allowed. <font face="Verdana">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">BNK</span>]]</font><sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|Talk]]</sup> 05:36, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I have asked a few other staff members who weren't involved in the discussion to take a look at it and decide. And in future, the best thing to do is to either try and add something to the discussion or to ask a staff member directly. 'bumping' is generally an inefficient way of getting attention for something. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:08, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I asked Dennou Zenshi but… ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage is causing Special:Disambiguations to not work, because none of those templates are linked. Can you fix it? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I made a null edit to the mediawiki page, it should start working soon as the server cache clears. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::It's not working… According to the Special:Disambiguations page, they need to be '''linked'''. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:23, 10 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Added links. Also remeoved two that were deleted in 2008. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:04, 10 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archives Lockdown ==<br />
<br />
I've got an image I've been trying to upload for the new Pokémon dolls for the [[Décor]] article, but the lockdown is still in effect on the archives, yet I see lots of daily updates by Jr Admins and above. When will the lockdown be rescinded? <sc>'''[[User:Pyrii|<font color="#e8e">♪Pyrii♫</font>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Pyrii|<font color="#747">talk</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pyrii|<font color="#747">contrib</font>]]</sup></sc> 04:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:How's fifteen minutes ago sound? Just be aware it may be closed again if the server can't cope with the extra load. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Sounds like music to my ears, thanks, now if only the image would show without me having to edit the page. Oh well, anything to increase my edit count XD <sc>'''[[User:Pyrii|<font color="#e8e">♪Pyrii♫</font>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Pyrii|<font color="#747">talk</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pyrii|<font color="#747">contrib</font>]]</sup></sc> 12:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A question about my edit to Template:16TeamBracket ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Werdnae. I made an update to the 16 Team Bracket template a bit ago for a few things. Mainly it was to make the tables be rounded per Bulbapedia style. While it looks good in concept and on most articles; I have seen a few pages where the template gets a bit streched out. Most of the stretching is limited to the [[2009 World Championships]] and the [[2010 World Championships]]. I wanted to know if it was alright or if my edit should be reverted for the moment. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 04:52, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It looks okay to me, but please be careful when editing templates. Especially at the moment when traffic is high due to B2W2, as editing even moderately used templates puts a big strain on the server. I'd prefer that you test it by making a test copy of the template in your userspace with the changes you want to make, before you edit the template. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:16, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Alright then. I think it will be better if I hold off on editing the other related templates. I will make sure to test it in the userspace next time as well. Thank you for checking. :) --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 18:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation templates? ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let me ask you the following: are the Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis wikis close enought for [[Bulbapedia:Sandbox#Interwiki translation notice|this template]] to be valid, and so that you could authorize me to create it on the template mainspace? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Where would it be used? Usually if they've got an article and we don't it's because we've decided that we either don't want the article, or don't want the article yet. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::... and it's very rare for an article to be based on a wikipedia one: you could easily say that it's because you normaly don't want that article (yet), specialy when we're talking about a wiki that's too much general on those matters. So why does {{template|WikipediaBased}} exist, when there are certain wikis from our partnership that sometimes write something notable before Bulbapedia? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 23:13, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::The WikipediaBased template is an overhang from when Bulbapedia was a wee infant with a userbase of a couple of hundred people. We're bigger than that now, and in general that template just shouldn't be used on any new articles.<br />
<br />
:::In regards to other wikis having articles on "notable" stuff before we do, that's because each wiki has its own independent notability and rules system. In particular, we have a "Wait until it airs" rule for the anime and most, if not all, of our partners don't. We're a bigger, more active wiki and so we have higher standards that must be met before we start the articles. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wp template: update to support (and strictly use) HTTPS ==<br />
<br />
[[Template talk:Wp#HTTPS|See this]]. What do you think of the suggestion? I'm not sure if this discussion topic should be kept on your talk page or at the template's talk page, by the way. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 18:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
<br />
I just noticed that I forgot to add typen= function to the GlitchSpirteBox template. It will just display a Unknown color background if there is no type2=. I [[User:Rsrdaman/sandbox|tried]] to get it to work but no no avail. Any tips?--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 19:42, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Inside parameters you ''can't'' use <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki>. It must be a pipe, because the way that template hides the pipe from parser fuctions such as switches means it also hides them from templates and parameters. <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki> should only be used to replace the pipes in table coding. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:57, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Ahh, ok... I finally got it to work now. Thanks again. --[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 09:03, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Random questions ==<br />
<br />
# Are we allowed to edit other user's pages to remove a [[Special:WantedTemplates|nonexisting template]] or a [[Special:WantedPages|non-existing page]]?<br />
## If not, are we allowed to alert the user?<br />
# Would it be a good idea to implement the #ifexist: function into {{template|Red link}}?<br />
Thank you for your time. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:# Yes, provided that's all you do.<br />
:#I don't think that's a good idea. Firstly because the template is extremely high use and any edit is likely to crash the wiki. Second, because it's okay for pages we actually want to be on the wanted pages list, so anything that's definitely going to get a page shouldn't use the template. Thirdly because ifexists are expensive functions and adding that to the template would significantly increase the load that each use of the template puts on the server. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:43, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::[[Zinzolin]] and {{ga|Rosa}} link to Template:Textcolor. Should it exist, or is something wrong? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:47, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::It's the Pokemon templates. If only some of the moves are known or a Pokemon only knows 1-3 moves, the parameters for the remaining moves must be removed, not just blanked. If they're blank, the template sees that they're there, and so doesn't use the defaults. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:56, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archives stuff ==<br />
<br />
As I'm working on the Glitchdex, a common problem I come across in incorrectly named images, or duplicates. Currently there are a lot of them and what I've been doing (just putting up <nowiki> {{Delete}} or {{move}} templates</nowiki>) is taking a lot of time and just making the current admins workload more. I really hate to {{tt|ask|as I know asking for power anywhere is a no-no}}, but as I read on the [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Staff#Becoming_an_administrator Archives Staff] page, it said high-ups can bestow temporary admin power. So is there any way I can get that to move/delete all of these files?--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 00:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Not currently. Due to the recent server move and game releases the Archives are actually a little unstable for the time being. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've moved the images for you Rsrdaman. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]]''''' 02:46, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Navigation templates ==<br />
<br />
In many navigation templates, I see the " • ", but in others I see " | ". Should I change them to one way or another, or just let it be? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:58, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Just let it be. Different templates call for different things. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:32, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Tournament infobox ==<br />
<br />
How does [[User:Abcboy/sandbox/TournamentInfobox|this]] look? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 22:21, 23 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Firsly, it needs to be roundy to match our style. I know you've based it on the game screen, but it still should be roundy because otherwise it looks out of place. Also because following the game design that strictly means that if it gets redesigned in future games, the template looks bad. They're 'inspired' by the game design, rather than emulating it.<br />
<br />
:Secondly, the align tags need to be replaced. Content alignment (i.e. text and images) can be done with the "text-align" style (i.e. <code>style="text-align:left/right/center;"</code>), while table alignment can be done with the float style for left or right (i.e. <code>style="float:left/right;"</code>) or the margin style for centering (i.e. <code>style="margin:auto;"</code>). This is important because the align tags are deprecated and only currently working on a backwards-compatability setup which could stop working at any time.<br />
<br />
:Other than those two minor things, nice work on the template. It's a nice code setup. Just don't be afraid to mess around with the styles from the game. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:00, 23 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::How does it look now? I just wrapped that splash of green around the top, removed several of the old dividers leaving only one, and made it roundier! It doesn't really conform to the Bulbapedia style, but I think it looks pretty good. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:44, 24 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Much better. The code's good and the design's good. I'm going to need to discuss it with a few other staff and get back to you just for the content, because I don't know that much about the PWT. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:14, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::[[User:Abcboy/sandbox/NewBerry|This]] is something I want to do to the Berry pages, along with moving the growth template to the growth section. Doing this would extremely reduce the size of the infobox. I need a little bit of help on the Generation IV one though... --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:43, 29 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Language support templates ==<br />
<br />
I was looking at Wikipedia and they have some nice language support templates such as {{wp|Template:Nihongo}}, {{wp|Template:Korean}} and {{wp|Template:Zh}}. The Japanese one is particularly useful as it renders kanji properly. I was thinking on adding them to Bulbapedia but would like to know the staff's opinion on them. If they are accepted, I would ask Wikipedia for permission of usage of the templates here (please note that I do not have an account there) and try them out in my sandbox here first. What do you think? [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 13:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:If I'm not mistaken, we already use the same code that those templates use to display the characters. It's an html attribute, <code>lang="ja"</code> ("ja" is replaced with "ko" or "zh" for the latter two templates). The reason that ours may appear distorted is that, depending on where they are used, the characters are subsequently bolded and/or reduced in size. I have noticed that it becomes very difficult to read in templates where both are done. In short, I don't think we need the template as we (should) already use the relevant code that it contains. If there's somewhere the language code isn't used, it most certainly should be, and you're welcome to add it: <code><nowiki><span lang="ja">Kanji goes here</span></nowiki></code> <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, correction, it appears that we're certainly not using that code everywhere. I know for certain that some templates do. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:36, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, I don't like them solely for the proper rendering of kanji. It's also because the templates help to standardize the way the Japanese/Korean/Chinese names should appear on articles. They also have the parameters <code>lead=yes</code> and <code>lead=no</code>, which allows the reader to know which written non-English language is he/she reading, with that element being present in the first instance of the language ''only''. It also helps in situations when there's no English equivalent to the Japanese/Korean/Chinese name, allowing the text to appear differently ordered to accomodate the situation. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 19:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm still not sure it's necessary. The usage of Japanese text is pretty much standardised already, with an identification. (i.e. the opening lines of the articles.) I can see where you're coming from, I just don't know if we need it, when things are hardcoded in a relatively (I would hope) similar manner. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well, I understand your point of view but please reconsider. It may be awkward at first but these specific templates help once we get used to them. At least, that's how I feel about them. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 14:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Infobox game update ==<br />
<br />
I've tweaked and added some parameters to it as per feedback on the template's talk page as well as from my own ideas. Check the modified template [[User:SatoMew2/GameInfoboxTweaks|here]] and some tests with it [[User talk:SatoMew2/GameInfoboxTweaks|here]]. Basically, I did the following:<br />
* Changed ''info'' in '''Basic info''' to ''information'' to be more professional and encyclopedic;<br />
* Changed OFLC to ACB in the '''Ratings''' since the ratings were of the ACB, which was previously called OFLC, and also due to there being confusion over the independent OFLC from New Zealand. Furthermore, the OFLC from New Zealand is irrelevant as the Pokémon games released there are under control of Nintendo of Australia, the subsidiary of Nintendo for both Australia and New Zealand. Thus, the ratings for the games in these two countries are as per the ACB;<br />
* Added the parameter for the OSK rating, which is the German rating system and is applicable to the Pokémon games;<br />
* Added parameters to include the translations of Japanese names under the Japanese name, in smaller text (same size as Japanese text);<br />
* Added other essential parameters about the games;<br />
* Renamed various parameters, rendering the previous names obsolete and current usage of the template broken;<br />
* Added "N/A" as fallback text for everything, for the sake of simplicity, consistency and to avoid showing the parameters themselves if there is a need to fallback to them.<br />
Either way, wherever the template is used, those applications of it have to be updated. Still, what do you think? I believe it makes the template more accurate and complete now. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 20:52, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Looks good to me. I don't suppose you'd be able to replace the align tags as described a couple of sections up? <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've replaced the <code>align</code> tags as you suggested, since they are deprecated. I have also changed the template's default colors to match Bulbapedia (damn, that black and white sure were not that good-looking) and streamlined the code, with suggestions and help from Abcboy ([[User talk:SatoMew2#Your game infobox|see here]]).<br />
:::Thanks, nice work. I pulled out a few of them that were carried over redundant tags from the old template (and a few due to minor changes in what the tags cover) and then put it into use. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm glad you liked it. But please protect the template page! I'm sure it was an oversight. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 20:44, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sorry for the bother ==<br />
<br />
Who do we talk to these days about checking new user IP's? Since I haven't been around much lately, I'm not sure which admin usually does what now. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 15:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Anyone at {{bp|Staff|Admin level}} or above can check IPs. There's not really one designated person who does it. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 16:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Hmm. Okay. I noticed a pattern in a lot of new usernames from the past few days, and as I'm going down the list, I've found about 70 from the past 8 days... didn't realize it went on this far. Names like AldocrjkpohdhrArvidson, DelmarlkcbffxubiDess, AdriansseedyjwjnRosander, YasukokehplwkzlmCurren, etc. It might not be worth trying to go through and block all of the names if there end up being a couple hundred of them, but I felt it needed to be brought up if it wasn't already known. It looks like most of them are getting ignored by people welcoming users, so I'm not the only one who's noticed. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 18:39, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::And now that I'm looking around a lot more, I see that other people have already mentioned it to a couple of you. Whoops. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 18:45, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Looking at the names, they're almost certainly spambots. Fortunately, most spambots try to create pages or userpages, and so are foiled by our autoconfirm requirements. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== LevelV template. ==<br />
<br />
Could you do that for other generations? Because movesets liked to change also in other generations. Some, like {{p|Mewtwo}}'s or {{p|Medicham}}'s could use that for Generation III. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 10:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I believe they already drafted somewhere, it's just a matter of getting them cleared by everyone and implementing them, and since I haven't had time I haven't pushed the matter. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 10:48, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Werdnae/Sandbox/Learnlist/levelIV|Here's my initial draft]] from a while back. I haven't had the time to complete it. If I'm remembering correctly, I also came across something that was going to be an issue for that template, but I don't recall exactly what that was. I know there were several possible solutions, and I think Kogoro built another prototype. Long story short, we're working on it, but it has come across a few issues, along with not being a priority. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:35, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::I felt liked doing it. I borrowed your template, copied onto userpage the header from mainspace and modified it, and [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates|this is result]] (well, obviously that "Header." text will be removed). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 14:39, 22 November 2012 (UTC) PS. And.... done, I think. You might want to check the templates if there is something to correct (still not sure if use RGB and Y or RB and Y in Generation I template), though. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 13:02, 23 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wiki code ==<br />
<br />
You seem to be the correct person to ask...<br />
<br />
On anime pokemon move templates such as this:<br />
<br />
<!--{{anmov/h|poison||Ash Muk {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}}}<br />
{{anmov|normal|Body Slam|EP077|The Fourth Round Rumble}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Poison Gas|EP115|A Tent Situation}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Sludge Bomb|EP270|Can't Beat the Heat!}}<br />
{{anmov/f|poison}}--><br />
* Poison Gas was used in the [[dub]] only. In the original Japanese version, Ash just said Muk's name, ''Betbeton''.<br />
<br />
I tried to to take the note at the bottom and put it into the actual template, using tt|*| next to Poison Gas, in order to make it look neater howevr it comes out like this<br />
<br />
<!--{{anmov/h|poison||Ash Muk {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}}}<br />
{{anmov|normal|Body Slam|EP077|The Fourth Round Rumble}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Poison Gas{{tt|*|Dub only}}|EP115|A Tent Situation}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Sludge Bomb|EP270|Can't Beat the Heat!}}<br />
{{anmov/f|poison}}--><br />
<br />
<br />
is their anyway the template can be changed so that we can put the tt|*| inside it? [[User:05308|<font color="blue">Diamond</font>]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|<font color="yellow">Lanturn</font>]] [[User talk:05308|<font color="red">CodeName: 05308</font>]] 16:26, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Adding a tooltip onto a parameter which autolinks will ''never'' work like that, because it's inside the link. The template needs the notes to be in parameter 4, which is alternate text and so can handle the tooltip template.<br />
<br />
:Also, if a proposed usage of a template is broken, please don't save it as-is. Saving a broken template usage is likely to create other problems. Instead, put it inside comment tags, and people that want to see the problem can remove them and preview. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magnagate ==<br />
<br />
What do you think of [[User talk:Abcboy/sandbox/MagnagateItemlistEntry|this]]? I can't really think of a way to compress it further. Also, congrats on your promotion. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks. And I'd suggest adding a column to the template for floors. I'd imagine that, especially in the larger dungeons, the available items might change depending on how far into them you are. I know that's the case for the other MD games. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the needed parameter. Perhaps the template could be used on '''all dungeons''' instead of just Magnagate ones. Also, your page needs a bit of updating and protection. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:10, 10 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::I'd prefer the floor parameter to display all the time. Otherwise it's unclear whether it is on all the floors or we just don't know the floors. The second line of the footer is a bit of a cop-out in that regard - either we know, or we don't. "seems" doesn't fit. Agreed that it would be on all the dungeons. I also think that we'd be better off including Poke in a row of the table, rather than a footnote. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Does [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pokedex-for-ios/id573135437?mt=8 Pokédex for iOS] deserve an article? It's been out for a month in Japan, and was recently released in the US and Europe. No idea about Australia and New Zaeland though. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 05:05, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::As an official app, I would say yes. Also, as you may have noticed, I moved that template. Nice work on it, it's simple but effective. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Because ==<br />
<br />
You've deserved this. A sincere congratulations to you, my fellow Kiwi. If you need a hand with anything, let me know. I've got some spare time these days. (Except for the rest of this week coz I'm going to Wellington. You should totally skip town and come join me. It'll be ''rad''.) &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 10:36, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks trom. Have fun in Wellywood. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Congrats, my friend! ==<br />
<br />
Well, since I can't see a section on here for this, I figured I would be the one to officially start one. Congratulations on the well-deserved and well-earned promotion to EiC. As one of the people on here who knew you way back when you were a Jr. Admin., I can say that I can't think of anyone else who has put as much hard work into the 'pedia, or who I would rather have in the job. You have been a kind and helpful mentor to many people on here (including me), so I just wanted to say thank you for that. Your leadership skills and dedication are what have brought you thus far, and I look forward to seeing how the 'pedia prospers under your guidance. Although I do not get the chance to edit as much as I would like to nowadays (business and responsibilities IRL), know that I have always been, and will always be, your friend. Should you need anything, you have but to ask. --[[User:Jediknightdtv|<span style="color:blue">ジェダイナイト</span>]][[User talk:Jediknightdtv|<span style="color:green">ディーティーブイ</span>]] 19:45, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Conquest ==<br />
<br />
Could you add more information to the page [[Pokémon Conquest]] and related articles, please. Also, there isn't much information on Pokémon pages about the kingdoms where you can find them and I've seen a few pages conflict with one another. In the [[Sneasel]] page, it says Sneasel can be found in [[Nixtorm]], but in the Nixtorm page, Sneasel isn't mentioned at all. {{unsigned|Plusleminun311312}}<br />
:Bulbapedia is a wiki, information is added by many of our users, not just staff. I don't have the info you're looking for in order to add it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image thing ==<br />
<br />
Hey Werdnae, sorry to bother you but this is bugging me, long story short whenever I try to view or use [[a:File:PMBW01.png]] on an article (such as [[PMBW01]]), it shows a different image that used to be at that name, but was moved. I tried in different browsers, different computers, I tried clearing the cache, it's still messed up. Can you figure out why it's broken for me :( thanks!!! (hope you understand what I mean and I don't look silly XD) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 22:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like it's okay to me. I'm guesing that it just took a little time until the CDN synced the images. It usually happens quickly, but depending on load may take closer to 24 hours. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small><br />
::That is so weird. Here's how it looks to me: [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/zeldascousin/Untitled-2.jpg] [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 05:02, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::It's the same for me, seems the CDN didn't properly update for all regions. It will be fixed soon. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#DA70D6;">Kogoro</span>''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#FFB6C1;">Talk to me</span>''']] - 05:09, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Ah, a regional thing. IIRC that has happened once or twice before, where updates on one or more servers are delayed relative to the others. Thanks for taking care of it Kogsie. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Okay, cool. Thank you both :) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 02:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Just so y'all know, it's fixed for me :D [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 02:55, 22 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B2W2 autoconfirmed protection ==<br />
<br />
It's been several months since B2W2 came out, and several B2W2 articles ([[Strange House]], [[Relic Passage]], [[Clay Tunnel]], [[Cave of Being]], and [[Pledge Grove]]) are still protected from non-autoconfirmed users. Several B2W2 redirects ([[Banjirou]], [[Heart Cave]], [[Relic Path]], [[Stranger House]], [[Clay Road]], and [[Oath Woods]]) are also still protected from non-autoconfirmed users. Were they forgotten? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Looks like it. I'd assumed that all the B2W2 protections were set to expire shortly after release, but looks like a few were set to infinite length by mistake. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==King of Almia page==<br />
<br />
Is there anybody on Project Sidegames who is watching the "King of Almia and the Three Princes" page? There are about three unanswered questions on the talk page. [[User:Aggron989|Aggron989]] ([[User talk:Aggron989|talk]]) 23:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Idea ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I was wondering if I could talk to you about adding a relationship section to the prominent characters of the series. --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 04:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Werdnae's away at the moment, but he gave me permission to respond to you in his stead. We feel relationship sections are not needed on character articles, as more than likely it will only lead to problems because of [[Shipping]]. Also, relatives are already mentioned in the infobox on articles. If you'd like to go in-depth about interactions between characters, then your attention is better suited for the shipping articles. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 04:54, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
That wasn't what I meant. What I'm trying to suggest is adding short summaries of some of the characters interactions, and for the shippings we'd just leave a link. It'd probably be easier if I showed you an example, so with your permission can I do it on Iris or Trip? --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 15:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:That kind of information should be worked into the "Character" section, as their interactions with other people are a significant part of their character. It shouldn't need to go overly specific, just their general behaviour towards other people and anything markedly different. Looking at Trip's page, it appears this is already the case: specifically the second and fourth paragraphs of the Character section. Shippings should not be included there unless they are specifically stated in canon. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:04, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
Your kinda misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm referring to interactions that don't have any shippings, like with Iris and Cynthia or Georgia and Burgundy. I'll show you what I mean if you let me try it for Iris. --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 19:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I know what you're meaning. What I'm saying is I don't want a list. The behaviour that is underlying the interactions should be included in the character section without the need to list. Important events should be included in the history section. We have existing places to put that information. We don't need to duplicate it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 17:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
"Sighs" fine, then how about a battle record for the site then? You know, somethings similar to what's on the full battle page? --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 06:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
==Thankyou==<br />
Thanks for you suggestion Werdane on Crystal's talkpage. I will check the spam folder.[[User:Minor Notes|Minor Notes]] ([[User talk:Minor Notes|talk]]) 23:37, 31 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remember me? ==<br />
<br />
Yes, it is I, your biggest fan, and I'm back. I always knew you would make the job, and good job.<br />
I love this place, and hope to be a help. <br />
<br />
Cam ♣♣ ''[[User:Focus58|<font color="Red">Ƒǿҫὑṩ</font>]] [[User talk:Focus58|<font color="olive">❺❽</font>]]'' ♣♣ 13:22, 2 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Random question ==<br />
<br />
Hi Werdnae :) sorry to bother you with this, but {{u|Umeko}} never writes me back so I thought it was best to come to you. I was wondering if you think [[User:Zesty Cactus/Misty's Song (single)|this article]], which I've worked on in my user space, was worth it for a mainspace article. My explanation is in the user message on the article. I'd appreciate your feedback. (I'm scared to just make the decision myself since I feel I don't have that much authority over Music, since while I do contribute to the project, idk, I feel like it's not my place XD) thanks again :) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 17:38, 18 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Music articles aren't my expertise, but would it be plausible to make it a proper section on the existing page? Neither of them really have that much info, so they might be better together? You've got more experience with those articles, so I'll trust your judgement on it, whatever you decide is better. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:26, 19 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Disambig pages ==<br />
<br />
What is the rule for disambiguation pages? I know that Pokémon receive them. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 05:59, 23 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Pokémon get disabmigs at X (Disambiguation) because there's already a lot of stuff to fit at the top of their page and the species names redirect there. Otherwise, it's just whether one is significantly more important than the other (Also, English names always trump Japanese names) or they're equal importance. If there's numerous things, then it might get a disambig, if there's just a few and the 'main' article is small then a note at the top is easier. There's no real hard and fast rule, it's more of a 'is this working?' and 'what are people more likely to be looking for?'. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:11, 23 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userspace Editing ==<br />
<br />
I know I must seem like quite a newbie posting this, but, I just don't understand this. I swear,I edited my Userspace twice yesterday, and twice today, I'm confused.<br />
<br />
[[User:PokefanR|PokefanR]] ([[User talk:PokefanR|talk]]) 04:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We use the wiki's UTC clock to check the days, and there are five edits in one day [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User:PokefanR&action=history here]. Make sure that you're clicking preview and not save when you want to check your page, and edit the whole page at once with the edit tab at the very top, rather than editing each section one at a time - every time you click the save button counts as an edit, rather than every set of changes you want to make. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Percentages ==<br />
<br />
First of all, sorry if I'm talking to the wrong person, as far as the Bulbapedia hierarchy goes you seem pretty high so I thought I'd start here...<br />
Basically I wanted to do a small information design project about pokemon types but discovered that the breakdown the types into percentages adds up to about 146%. Is there incorrect information or am I being a complete dope?<br />
<br />
thanks<br />
<br />
Edit: I was forgetting, cheers man. I'm off to buy a brain.<br />
<br />
[[User:Matthauke|Matthauke]] ([[User talk:Matthauke|talk]]) 22:03, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[User:Matthauke|Matthauke]] ([[User talk:Matthauke|talk]]) 00:25, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm guessing that you're forgetting about dual-typed Pokémon. Because of them, the "This percent of Pokémon are XXX type" will always add to more than 100, because you're counting some twice. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:24, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userspace permission ==<br />
<br />
Small non-urgent question. I haven't been able to edit my userspace for years now it would seem, except I have been able to in the past. I don't remember any notification that my rights were removed (and I only edited it once a day, not to mention that was years ago). Can I know why I don't have the right and possibly how to fix that? Is it just a certain number of mainspace edits we need now? I'm mostly concerned about fixing way outdated information such as age. Thank you! <br />
<br />
update: Seems to be resolved now. [[User:Ratikate|Ratikate]] ([[User talk:Ratikate|talk]]) 15:29, 8 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My small update batch to Infobox game ==<br />
<br />
Why was it reverted and when will it be readded? [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 22:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:It was reverted because I screwed up. I should have done a few things that I didn't, and in hindsight didn't read what you were telling me either. The most urgent issue was that the parameters were changed, which is generally a bad idea as it breaks the pages until they can be fixed. There were a few other things that some people weren't sure about, so I'll need to talk to other staff about it some more. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates]] ==<br />
<br />
You{{tt|*|Because you created the one I am basing it upon}} (or someone else... except Snorlax since he seems busy or something) may want to do something with this (because I have no idea what to do with it now, minus fixing any errors and incompatibilities with what we have, that could sneak in) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'll look into it. Thanks for making the rest of them. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New page ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is more information about [[Liberate the Tower!]] than Operation Brighton from [[Pokémon Ranger:Shadows of Almia]] on Bulbapedia. This doesn't seem right to me. Is it important enough that I can create an article about it? It's a kind of obscure subject, so I thought I should ask somebody on Project Sidegames first. [[User:Aggron989|<span style="color:#858585;">''AGG''</span>]][[User talk:Aggron989|<span style="color:#858585;">''RON''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Aggron989|<span style="color:#444444;">''989''</span>]] 19:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ranger Net missions get sections because they aren't part of the core game. Information on Operation Brighton goes in the plot section of the SoA article. The ranger net plot can't go there because it's separate, so it gets a section elsewhere. It might look like there's more info on Liberate the Tower than on Operation Brighton, but that's just because it's separate from the rest. There's actually a lot more info on Operation Brighton (the majority of the final paragraph of the plot section) than Liberate the tower (one sentence in its own section). The rest is just about the Darkrai once it gets to the main series games. The information on Operation Brighton is better suited to the plot section of the game page than its own article. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:47, 5 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Project Picture ==<br />
Hi Werdnae,<br />
Can I please make a project that make good quality images and put them on pages? I noticed that there are a lot of old images or low resolution images that needs to be replaced. Thanks! [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 02:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:That is what the [[a:Main Page|Archives]] are. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:57, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Taking in game pictures==<br />
Hi again Werdnae, how do you take a picture of a bird's eye view of a Pokemon route or a Pokemon city like the ones used on Bulbapedia? Thanks. [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 08:44, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:# Don't delete comments from talk pages.<br />
:# If I knew that, don't you think I'd have already ''done'' that for the ones we don't have?. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How would I go about ==<br />
<br />
changing my username to Launchballer? It is the name I use everywhere else.--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 10:38, 15 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You'll need to talk to {{u|Kogoro}} for that. It's a fairly involved process, and I don't really have the time for that at the moment. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Project Fandom Leader ==<br />
<br />
[[User:$aturn¥oshi|$aturn¥oshi]] has been inactive for three years, yet he is still leader of [[Bulbapedia:Project Fandom|Project Fandom]]. Just wanted to point that out.--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 03:20, 17 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm aware. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How do you edit templates? ==<br />
<br />
Hello Werdnae, how do you edit existing templates? I noticed that on the Hoenn League template, the battle sprites of Steven and Wallace, are from generation III, not from generation V, and it's best to use the latest sprites. And if you think that I shouldn't be doing this, on the Hoenn gym leaders template, Wallace overworld sprite from generation V used, and he entered the PWT as a champion, not as a gym leader. Also, on the Kanto gym leaders template, Koga's overworld sprite is from generation IV, while he is an elite four member at that time. So please tell me how to edit the Hoenn League template. Thanks! [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 00:40, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Those should not be changed because there ''must'' be consistency within the table. for ''isolated images'' newer is generally (but not always) better, but in tables like that it looks terrible if they don't match. And the reason that you can't edit most templates is that they are protected. This is done because every edit made to them puts a very large load on the server. <br />
<br />
:Please also use the preview button when you're editing so that you don't have to edit the same page so many times in a row. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, on the Kanto gym leader template Koga is the only person to have a generation IV overworld sprite, so should we change every other gym leader sprite in that template to generation IV for consistency within the table? [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 01:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::In that case, Gen IV and Gen V sprites are similar enough that it's acceptable. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 02:20, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== pokemon ==<br />
Sorry........I didn't knew that it is illegally showed on that sites.<br />
One more thing that I am quite new to Bulbapedia ,but I do a lots of mainspace edits I am asking that anybody sees the edits I am making regularly?--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 12:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:First part, it's fine, we just have to be super strict about it. Second part, yes. All edits show up on the [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes list]], and most staff (as well as some non-staff users) regularly watch that, so they'll see when you've made an edit. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== This is bugging me... ==<br />
<br />
It's regarding the "a" in the file links to avoid getting them in the wanted pages. One side wants me to use <nowiki>[[:a:File:</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>[[a:File:</nowiki>, and another side wants me to use <nowiki>[[a:File:</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>[[:a:File:</nowiki>. I am being told two different things that I was supposed to do which is getting nowhere. So which side is actually right? [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 23:28, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Both. <nowiki>[[:a:File: and [[a:File: both work properly, so it's up to the person writing the code for the link. The one to avoid is [[:File:</nowiki> which puts it on the wanted files list. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:25, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Picture for [[Feraligatr]] ==<br />
Hello, Werdnae,<br />
<br />
I have a Pokemon Silver Pokedex printer entry for [[Feraligatr]]. I don't know how to put it in there.<br />
<br />
- Christopher Matias (NutwiisystemRocks) 17:10, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Uploads are done over on the [[a:Main Page|Archives]]. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:03, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Okay, thanks! Christopher Matias (NutwiisystemRocks) 21:28, 26 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==New Project Idea==<br />
I have an idea for a project that will help players build a team, or become successful with their current team. I already have some good strategies with Pokemon such as Espeon and Umbreon. I am messaging you to ask if the scope is broad enough for me to create this project. Thank you for your consideration.<br />
([[User:Littleroot Leader Cam|Littleroot Leader Cam]] ([[User talk:Littleroot Leader Cam|talk]]) 18:25, 5 June 2013 (UTC))<br />
:That's beyond the scope of Bulbapedia. Bulbapedia is an encyclopedia, reporting facts, not strategies. You are, however, welcome to share strategies in the [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f518/ battle centre] over on the forums, which intended for strategy help. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Youtubevid template==<br />
Hi. Today I was thinking about how weird it was to being still facing the problem with this template, after all these months. So, I decided to see if it still didn't work. And guess what: I viewed the source from the last edit done while it was still working - and it worked! I suggest you go check it out for yourself, and then, unless I commited a mistake, change it: it's over, I guess. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 22:22, 9 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd rather not, primarily because the old method has a security risk. I'm close to getting a replacement that isn't, I just need to do some more testing. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:35, 10 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As an addition to that, the old template was responsible for a few loading problems, where it pushed even moderately sized pages over the limit and prevented them from loading. We're still hammering out the details, but the usage is going to have to be much more restricted than it was, and we're going to have to remove any uses deemed unnecessary before the template can be fixed. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:07, 10 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==LANDpedia==<br />
Hi, I want to ask you another question: as you may know, our portuguese-speaking partner has been closed for a long time, even tough the rest of the page looks alright. What I want to ask you is if, as the EiC, you have any idea of the cause of this problem, and if you think this puts in cause the presence of LANDpedia in Encyclopediae Pokémonis. Thanks. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:03, 27 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I don't have any knowledge on why, other than what you've noticed already. That said, if a wiki 'falls over' as it were, it's most frequently due to a lack of input from the community. That's also why Bulbapedia doesn't actively start new wikis for EP - if the community support needed to survive is there, then they'll make it themselves. If there's not enough of a community to sustain it then no amount of forcing will make that happen. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:08, 28 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Looks like the same has happened with [http://poketeca.com Pokéteca] (not even [http://pkstation.com the original fan site] works). Now the thing is (and the answer I was really seeking): do you think it's worth to keep defunct sites on EP? In case the answer is yes, then what do you think it should be done if another fast-growing wiki in Portuguese/Spanish appeared? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 22:26, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The inclusion (or exclusion) of a wiki from EP isn't up to me. On the 'Bulbagarden' opinion I have significant weight, but I would still need to discuss that with others before weighing in, and the ultimate decision rests with Archaic. In addition, while Bulbapedia is the oldest of the member wikis, and one of the founding members, we aren't the leader - the other members each get their say as well in any decision. I would guess that if it became a choice between a dead wiki and an active wiki of the same language, the old one would likely be replaced. I doubt we'll end up in that circumstance though, because as I mentioned earlier, they die because there's not enough of a userbase to sustain them, and as a result, not enough of a userbase to build and maintain a new one. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Yeah, I knew you weren't totaly responsible for this. But what about the "in other languages" box? Should we keep the pt and es links? Or is this also Archaic's responsibility? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 17:47, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::As long as they're still EP members we should keep the links. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Well, forgive me for the Pokéteca thing: it didn't close, it was just a temporary measure. Just for you to know. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:red">'''オリ'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:green">'''ジ'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:blue">'''ナル'''</span>]] <small>TheOriginalOne</small> 18:10, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Something you didn't notice...==<br />
Hi. I was seeing some template pages of the wiki related to the Main Page, and noticed that [[Template:Main Page/Featured content|this one]] had somehow got unprotected (I viewed the logs and noticed that it was protected in the past, tough without seeing any other change to its protection status). <s>If I wanted, I could have vandalized the Main Page in many fun ways.</s> Please protect it. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 15:54, 13 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Wow, nice spotting. Thanks for letting me know. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:06, 13 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates|Learnlist templates]] ==<br />
<br />
Still sits in userspace (though I recently fixed a small derp). And the style we have for G1-G4 is... really, not too {{tt|practical|though Crystal has hardly any changes in movesets, that's why I gave like 4 examples}} (unlike G5 template). What left to do with that template? [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:There's a couple of minor aesthetic tweaks I'd like to make, but they'll be a bit time consuming. I'll see if I have time, but it might need to wait until the weekend. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Okay. In meantime, I will go look who needs it. I once did that, but lost the list :/ [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:15, 25 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I forgot that there was still the header that needed adjustment, so it took me longer than expected. I've created [[Template:Learnlist/levelh/4]] for the header of the generation IV subpages, and moved the two Generation IV list templates to [[Template:Learnlist/levelIVj]] (where the change was introduced in the Johto games) and [[Template:Learnlist/levelIVs]] (where the change was introduced within Sinnoh, i.e. between DP and Pt). The earlier generation templates will need to wait a bit, they need a separate header and more extensive tweaking. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:37, 2 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sitenotice ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't that be 'confirmation' not 'conformation'?--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 00:42, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ha! Yes, thanks for letting me know (also thanks to Kogsie for fixing it). Clearly I have been thinking too much about my chemistry, and didn't notice. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:18, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I also noticed something in the site notice. Shouldn't "IRC" be in all caps, being an acronym and all? Correct me if I'm wrong... '''&mdash;[[User:Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#F7C83B;">Bob</span>]] [[User talk:Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#276FEA;">Roberts</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#2D2D2D;">III</span>]]''' 02:13, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks for pointing that out, I'd copied that from an earlier revision. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:44, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question ==<br />
<br />
[[User talk:Brianne23E|This]] user appears to have created their talk page and put some sort of advertising on it. They must be brand new, because there's no sign of a welcome template being put on there. What should be done? [[User:Pokegen master|Pokegen master]] ([[User talk:Pokegen master|talk]]) 21:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Exactly what you did. That's a characteristic spambot action, so a staff member needs to take care of it. Thanks for mentioning it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PokéInfobox ==<br />
<br />
There are {{tt|few|read: five; Abra, Geodude, Machop, Omanyte and Kabuto as far as I know}} Generation I Pokémon whose exp yield was changed in G4, so technically they need three fields. (or the tt template?) 07:40, 4 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ugh, can't they just make up their mind? Thanks for mentioning it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There's more... {{tt|And it's not only Generation 1.|Found on upokecenter.com then verified in-game}}<br />
::Lv. 25 Kabutops (G3: {{tt|717|yield of 201}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Dunsparce (G3: {{tt|267|yield of 75}}; G4: {{tt|446|yield of 125}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Silcoon (G3: {{tt|253|yield of 71}}; G4: {{tt|257|yield of 72}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Dustox (G3: {{tt|571|yield of 160}}; G4: {{tt|575|yield of 161}}){{tt|*|Bit of trivia: These had their yield changed to match the one of their counterpat (Silcoon and Beautifly, respecitvely}}<br />
::Lv. 25 Lileep (G3: {{tt|432|yield of 121}}; G4: {{tt|353|yield of 99}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Cradily (G3: {{tt|717|yield of 201}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Anorith (G3: {{tt|425|yield of 119}}; G4: {{tt|353|yield of 99}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Armaldo (G3: {{tt|714|yield of 200}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::That's quite bit of changes... [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Abilities ==<br />
<br />
Do you know what sidegames (minus PMD) have description for Abilities (these that exist in main series; since eg. Conquest has both those in main-series and new ones). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC) PS. Asking because [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/AbilityInfobox|this]]. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:50, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I can't think of any that you haven't already mentioned without research. As you said, PMD and Conquest do. Ranger doesn't, Rumble has [[Special Trait]]s instead. PokéPark I don't recall having abilities, and most of the others were before Gen III. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Side series ==<br />
<br />
For over a month, {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has neglected to answer {{DL|User talk:SnorlaxMonster|Side series|my query}}, so I've come to you instead. {{DL|Talk:Generation VI|"For the first time in the main series, the games will be in full 3D"?|According to him}}, it was decided years ago that the Stadium, Box, and Colosseum series make up the "side series" rather than main or spin-off series. At my prodding, the respective games' pages were updated to acknowledge this, but we still have no template or mainspace page for side series, so all those links still redirect to spin-off series, [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Games&curid=11934&diff=1951987&oldid=1917244 to the confusion of uninformed users]. I drafted the article and template we need in my userspace ([[User:Pumpkinking0192/Side series]] and [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Template:Side series]]). Are these suitable for mainspacing? If not, how can I fix that? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 03:24, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:There was some miscommunication, resulting in a 'decision' to change the naming scheme being made without the proper input or approval of the Editorial Board, which is required for such a large, widespread change. There are several issues with the rename which have been brought to our attention and the change has been put on hold until the issues can be sorted, but it's taking a long time because there are many more things which are significantly more important, such as a number of very complex templates needing a complete rebuild before XY due to new mechanics. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for letting me know. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:44, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I cant add mew glitch yellow pic ==<br />
<br />
pleas read subject--[[User:Mecha mew 2|Mecha mew 2]] ([[User talk:Mecha mew 2|talk]]) 15:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Images are uploaded over on the [[a:Main Page|Bulbagargen Archives]]. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== List of Pokémon Pocket Monsters chapters ==<br />
<br />
Would it be alright to ask you with this, as I posted this on {{u|Zesty Cactus}}'s talk page, but I didn't get a reply?<br />
<br />
For this [[User:Reshi643/List of Pokémon Pocket Monsters chapters|list]], I have two questions:<br>1) For the Volume 10 chapters, the (Japanese:) and the infobox don't match, is there a reason for it?<br>2) For Volume 14, is it alright to leave the English title column to match with the rest? — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:05, 6 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:# It looks like the infobox one is simply transliterated (romanised), while the article one is translated. The infobox parameter's poorly named ("title_ro" instead of "title_trans" or similar), but I'd rather have the translation there than the romanisation. The translation lets people that don't read Japanese see how the title was changed when the chapter was translated into English.<br />
:# Definitely.<br />
<span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:28, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, I moved the list to the mainspace, also, sorry about the timestamp being August 6, as I copy and paste the message, and didn't resign the message. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 22:34, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One-time appearance of a Pokémon ==<br />
<br />
What is the ruling for anime Pokémon not belonging to anyone who appeared in one episode (including ones who are nicknamed). If they receive an article, does staff need to approve of it first, because I created the Osharina article off-site since she caused the rivalry between Ash and Cadbury, which was the main focus of the episode. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 05:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You'd be better off talking to a staff member who watches the anime, but based on what you've told me, I do not think it qualifies based on the notability requirements. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Glad I didn't create it. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 01:30, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== IP range calculator ==<br />
<br />
I had passed this onto G50 and felt that I should also pass it onto you: [https://toolserver.org/~chm/blockcalc.php IP range calculator] I use this on Wookieepedia to calculate range blocks, and looking over the block log, the blocked IP will need to be range-blocked. That said, I had dropped the two IPs into the calculator and calculated a range: Range 216.154.88.0/21 (up to 2048 users would be blocked) Looking it up, it may be a proxy server, as I had dealt with spambots from that hostname before. Thus, blocking the aforementioned range should do the trick. Good luck! [[User:Trak Nar|Trak Nar]] ([[User talk:Trak Nar|talk]]) 05:20, 18 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Since the IP traces to residential Canada, which is one of our main audiences, we won't be blocking an IP range because it's far too likely to hit legitimate users. Not to mention the fact that this user clearly knows how to change his/her IP, I'm confident that it wouldn't stop the target person for long. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis: LANDpedia ==<br />
<br />
Hi, sorry to come bothering you but you seemed the most appropriate person for this matter, I ask for apologies if I am wrong. I just wanted to note that it seems LANDpedia no longer exists at all, [http://pokeland.net/ Poké Land] seems to be up, but LAND gazette doesn't seem to be updated since the 17th of April of 2012, LANDpedia doesn't seem to exist as a website at all (the page can not be found, suggesting to be redirected back to Poké Land), and LAND community seems to be the only one up but I couldn't confirm if it's still being update. Since the website seems to be discontinued, is it a good policy to keep the links in the main page and other pages under the Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis even though there is nowhere for the users to go to? Just trying to land a hand and help, have a nice day ^^ ----[[User:EtherealAether|<span style="color:#1E90FF;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">EtherealAether</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:EtherealAether|<span style="color:red;font-weight:bold;">talk</span>]])''</small> 14:42, 21 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm aware it's down. It needs a lot of discussion among senior staff, both here and on the other EP wikis, before we remove their links, and there are a lot of more important things that we're focusing on at the moment. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question about userspace edits ==<br />
<br />
I read on the FAQ you can only make 3 userspace edits a day. Can you give me an example of what they mean by 3 edits?<br />
Yes I'm a noob [[User:Raichu8575|Raichu8575]] ([[User talk:Raichu8575|talk]]) 13:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)Raichu8575<br />
:Every time you click the save page button is one edit. If you do that on a page that starts with "User:", that is one userspace edit. So you can only do that three times in one day, then you have to wait for the next day. You also need to make edits to pages that don't have a prefix (i.e. the actual articles) to be allowed to make that many userspace edits in one day. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Breeding table ==<br />
<br />
From the {{m|Natural Gift}}'s breeding table, why is the Gen IV list under the Gen V header? — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:If I'm not mistaken, those are BW and B2W2 lists, not Gen IV lists. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::You're right, I thought with the Gen IV having nothing in it, that there was something wrong with it. Sorry about that. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 05:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "Last episode in X series" trivia ==<br />
<br />
I'm sorry to bother you, but I see that you're the only staff member currently making edits. Viv and I are having a [[User talk:Viv#"Last episode of X series" trivia|disagreement]] over this piece of trivia in the articles [[EP274]], [[AG192]], [[DP191]] and [[BW142]]. It's absolutely unnecessary because the first line of the article already states that each of these is the last episode in their respective series, but Viv insists that it cannot be removed because... well, I can't fathom his reasoning. He seems to think that because the trivia have been on the articles a long time, they need an admin's approval to be removed, and in the interest of not edit warring, I'm coming to you to resolve this because he won't listen to me. Thanks. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:11, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm also really sorry for bothering you for such a small matter but I think that, the trivia should remain there as it's from the starting and after the [[BW142]] trivia only, all the trivia have been removed, I strictly think this should be there as always. This should not be undone by Pumpkinking for the sake of doing it, further more for removing such a trivia he should have asked someone. I would agree whatever your decision would be. <small> Of course this is not a court. </small>--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:21, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thank You for even listening to me!--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:16, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not removing it "for the sake of doing it". I'm removing it because it is against our policy on trivia for such a redundant thing to exist. You still haven't given any legitimate reason for it to remain. ("It's always been there so it should stay" is apathy, not a reason.) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:26, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::We don't have an official policy on trivia. At least... not yet. The trivia point wasn't really notable as the first paragraph of the article already states the exact same thing. If something can be seen on the article itself, it isn't notable.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 08:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Wait baby, cool it down folks We should not be fighting for one line Trivia. What's the big deal if viewers will see that one line trivia of '''This is the last episode of this this series'''. If you are fighting for this then what about the Trivia's like '''This is the last episode of 2000's''' .I'm saying these trivia should remain there I guess we both have given enough of reasoning. Now, let Werdnae decide on this. <br />
Pumpkinking it's my humble request to you now neither you nor should I post anything about this topic. If it's clear you can reply YES/NO.<br />
<br />
Post Script-------- Mr. Werdnae I'm really sorry for using your page as an 'EDIT WAR RESOLVING PAGE' and I thing Pumpkinking would also be sorry--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:40, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Trivia points should be pieces of info that are worth noting, but don't fit elsewhere in the article. These fail that requirement because it does fit elsewhere in the article - it's already in the intro, making the trivia redundant and unnecessary. As a result, I agree with the removal of the 'end of series' trivia points. As for the 'last episode of &lt;year>' points, I don't think they're notable at all. It's just not that important. If there were breaks at the end of each year, or each year started a new (sub-series) plot arc or something, then maybe. But as it is, the actual date that they aired is somewhat incidental.<br />
<br />
:As a side note, if you're going to ask me a question on my talk page, please continue the other parts of the conversation where you started them, so that you give me enough time to consider both sides of the argument, make a decision and then explain it, without getting an edit conflict and having to start again. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you, Werdnae. As a side note, Force Fire, while I am aware that we don't have an official written-in-stone policy about trivia, it would be fallacious to ignore the de facto consensus against redundancy that people, including many admins, have been cracking down on, especially lately. That's what I was referring to by "policy": the unwritten rules that are enforced just as much as the written ones. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PokéInfobox. ==<br />
<br />
I've noticed there is a small error there (that is, it says "Gen. I-IV" even if Pokémon didn't originate from Generation 1), also there shouldn't be tooltip for New Dex No. if Pokémon's Johto Dex No. is 101 or smaller, since up {{p|Yanma|to that}} they're the same. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 07:33, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks for mentioning those. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Red and Blue art? ==<br />
<br />
Don't mean to bother you or anything, but all original Pokémon have their infobox images as their Red and Blue art and its not September 30th. Glitch?--[[User:Weavilewarrior|Weavile Warrior]] ([[User talk:Weavilewarrior|talk]]) 21:57, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:See [[Talk:Meowth (Pokémon)#Art]]. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 22:02, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I find it silly that users should have to hunt down a minuscule talk page for an answer to a simple question. I think it's an issue that the notices on the talk pages do not mention this date as one of the dates for the artwork switching. Confusion will only continue unless it's addressed somewhere. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]]''''' 22:28, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::If anyone's interested in mainspacing it, I made [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Template:TalkArtworkNotice|a template]] we can put on the top of these pages so we can update them all simultaneously when something like this happens. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 50.Grind ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I have written two articles on Wikipedia - [[wikipedia:50.Grind|50.Grind]] and their song [[wikipedia:Gotta Catch 'Em All|Gotta Catch 'Em All]]. Would they be notable enough for inclusion here, and if so, would I be able to just copy my articles over here?--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 21:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The former I would say no. We can just link to the Wikipedia article where it matters. The latter could get an article, but it would need more than what's on that wikipedia article before it'd be considered a worthwhile page. Check the [[Bulbapedia:Project_Music#Song_articles|Project Music]] page for what's expected. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Underleveled Pokémon ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Werdnae. I wanted to discuss a potential change with you on how Underleveled Pokémon are presented on the [[Level]] article. At present, the [[Level#Underleveled Pokémon|current section]] is a few short paragraphs that only mention a few examples of Pokémon in the wild and in battles with Trainers that are not yet to the proper level to evolve. I was wondering if you would be alright if a standalone article could be created about the Underleveled Pokémon, along with [[User:Super goku/Sandbox/Underleveled Table|a table for a list]] of all the instances where it has occurred in trainer battles at the least. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 6 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:My initial thought was that it might be too common to be worth noting, but I don't have the time to look into it properly it while I'm focusing on templates for XY. I don't want to make a decision on it yet because of that. If another staff member wants to jump in and make that decision, I'll trust their judgement. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I will admit that there are quite a few Pokémon per generation listed, I feel that it is somewhat similar in content to the [[Game move errors]] article, though I understand that being close to XY could be a problem timewise. Would it be alright if I were to ask Kogoro for their opinion in this matter? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:32, 10 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plasma Blast ==<br />
I have attempted to correct a simple factual inaccuracy on {{TCG|Plasma Blast|this page}} twice, however [[user talk:Maverick Nate|Maverick Nate]] has reverted it both times with little explanation. I attempted to resolve this issue on his talk page over two weeks ago, but he did not respond and simply reverted my change again immediately (with a very slight change in the wording that doesn't really clarify how it's factually correct). I would appreciate it if you could step in and encourage him to either more thoroughly explain the reasoning behind the reverts or to stop making the reverts. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 07:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I looked over the issue, and I think I understand what Nate is trying to say. Because the G Scope and G Booster provide Genesect with an extra move, they're essentially like TMs. TMs wouldn't work in the TCG like they do in the games, so I think what he's saying is that they're the next best thing to TMs that the TCG is going to get. They're the first item cards that provide a Pokémon with an extra attack. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 08:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::That line of thinking seems like pure speculation, though. It's certainly not a fact that G Booster and G Scope are meant to represent a new form of TMs, especially given that they only work with a single Pokemon. Although this is also speculation, I believe they were meant to represent the same concept as Genesect's signature hold items - which seems logical to me, given that tools represent hold items. However, regardless of whether or not that particular thought is true, the statement "Because Technical Machines in the Pokémon games now have unlimited uses, attacks are now present on Pokémon Tool cards" is in no way a concrete fact. It is true that there are no TMs in the set and there are two (special, rare, out of the ordinary) tool cards with attacks on them, but that doesn't mean that they're replacing, or meant to replace, TMs at all. To say that those two cards are setting some kind of precedent for how something like TMs will be handled going forward is assuming a bit much, in my opinion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 14:27, 10 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Feel free to ''reword'' it as you like, just don't simply ''remove'' the content. First Tools with attacks on them is notable, and it is difficult to work with the content when it keeps getting removed. Please, modify it as you seem fit, just don't outright remove the entire topic when it seems that you have a problem with only 1 of the sentences. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 14:53, 10 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Prior to this discussion I was not actually aware that they were the first tools with attacks on them - I agree that this is notable and should be mentioned. Not knowing that at the time, I didn't think there was anything notable about what I was removing. It would have been nice to have had this discussion two weeks ago! [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 03:32, 11 September 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Werdnae/Archive_4&diff=1965277User talk:Werdnae/Archive 42013-09-10T14:27:54Z<p>Viskiv: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Werdnae/Nav}}<br />
{| cellspacing="3" cellpadding="2" width="100%" style="border: #000 3px solid; {{roundy|20px}}"<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| cellspacing="4" cellpadding="5" width="100%" style="background: #FFFFFF; border: #{{black color}} 3px solid; {{roundy|20px}}"<br />
|-<br />
|{{User:Werdnae/Archive|ndex=330|HP=364|type=Ground|type2=Dragon}}<br />
|- align="center"<br />
|<big>'''''New messages to the bottom please. If you post here I will reply here, If I post a comment on another page I will likely be watching it, so please keep the discussion there. Otherwise it gets too hard to follow the conversation.<br/>Please leave any talk page maintenance, including the removal of rule-breaking comments, to a {{Bp|staff|staff member}}.'''''</big><br />
|-<br />
| <!--PLEASE DO NOT CLOSE THE TABLE. IT IS SUPPOSED TO COVER THE PAGE LIKE IT IS-->|<br />
<br />
== Typebattle template title "Resist" is mathematically inaccurate with current values. ==<br />
<br />
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Template:Typebattle<br />
<br />
Saying resist is mathematically incorrect if you keep the numbers as multiplication values.<br />
<br />
Its valid for the 1/2x part since when you resist half the damage you take the other half.<br />
<br />
However you are not resisting 2x the damage. That would be the same as resisting 200% of the attack. Resisting 100% or more would result in taking no damage at all. Resisting 0% would mean that you are resisting no damage and therefore taking 100% of the initial amount.<br />
<br />
If you want to stick with the values being multipliers to the original attack i would recommend you to use another word like multiplyer, power or effectiveness.<br />
<br />
The protected source is here : http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Typebattle&action=edit<br />
<br />
[[User:DavidGuld|DavidGuld]] 15:01, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:You're right, resist is wrong there. I changed it to power so it matched the other half of the template. Thanks for pointing it out. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:06, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== If you're not busy ==<br />
<br />
Is it okay to use the HP bar on my talk page? [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 22:04, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Sure. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I'm going to create one on my own page. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 23:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Here ==<br />
<br />
[[Team Aqua|Here]] and [[James|here]]. One says Pokémon Yellow, while another says In Ruby or In Sapphire, etc. Which would be the most correct?--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 12:46, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thing is, James has only appeared in Pokémon Yellow, where as Team Aqua has appeared in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald. So in this case, it's fine the way it is.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#424B50">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#848A8D">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#E3CED0">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EDDFE0">ire</span>]] 12:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::No, I meant as a general thing. Not specifically referring to these articles.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 12:56, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Also [[A.J.|here]], there 3 examples.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 13:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::As I said when you last brought it up: "I'd say they don't all need to be the same. It depends more on the layout and phrasing of the sections." <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:57, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::I know what you said. That's why I ask how exactly it depends and I thought I should give you some examples.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 21:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Would you mind if we leave this until after B2W2? I'm kinda busy with that and non-Bulba stuff just at the moment, so I don't really have time to look into everything properly and therefore give a quality answer. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
Sure, why not. Just tell me when to remind you of it.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 11:42, 14 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== possible multiple accounts ==<br />
<br />
{{u|DerangedChillen}} and {{u|DementedChillen}} look like they could be the same user. [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 09:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, you're right. Thanks for letting me know. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 10:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::You're Welcome. [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 10:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== BW parameter ==<br />
<br />
I changed it to the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Ice_Burn_%28move%29&curid=117721&diff=1708520&oldid=1708519 GenV parameter] because when I previewed it with the BW one, it gave me a tiny dot for no reason. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 22:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Clear your cache. The parameter was just added to the template, looks like you were still getting a cached version. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Entries ==<br />
<br />
You probably can't translate them, but maybe you can write them? It took me few minutes just to get characters of location's Japanese name >_> ...so these will take much longer, especially as there is [http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg507/scaled.php?server=507&filename=bpkmnwh21014177.png&res=landing three] - Sewaddle, Mareep and Flaaffy. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 07:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Not a clue, sorry. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:30, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I do not ask to translate them, just to write them down to articles, as it is too much of pain for me. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 07:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah. I don't know how to type them either. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:53, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WarlordInfoBox Template ==<br />
<br />
With Oichi and Nobunga being brother and sister in the Pokémon Conquest game, would it be possible to have relatives added to the template? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 05:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I was unsure whether to add that or leave it for the body. I've added it to the template, but it'll only show up if the "Relatives" parameter is set. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
okay [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 05:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Conquest moves ==<br />
<br />
Can Conquest be added to (not sure of the name) template to be able to add a move description to the Pokémon pages? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 04:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:[[Template:Movedescentry]]? If so, done. Set the first parameter to "Conquest". <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:46, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Is it also possible for you to make it so I can add Conquest next to BW? A lot of the moves have the same description as the BW ones. --[[User:Funktastic~!|It&#39;s Funktastic~!]] ([[User talk:Funktastic~!|talk]]) 05:10, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::BWConquest. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I have found out that that different Pokémon of the same species can have different moves (Zebstrika is all I know so far) when they are linked. Can ConquestMove be changed to ConquestMove1 and ConquestMove2 so the 2nd move can be added? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 02:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Looking at the template, It's possible to add multiple moves to the cell using the one parameter, so just do that for now. If it's very common, we may want to change the layout, so if you notice any more can you let me know? Thanks. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Okay [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 03:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dispute ==<br />
<br />
Jo The Marten And I Are Having An Argument. Are People Allowed To Put Pokemon Templates On Mystery Dungeon Pages? [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 02:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Pokemon templates should only be used like that where there is something special about the Pokemon (Abnormal ability, abnormal moveset, etc.). There is absolutely nothing different between that Drowzee and any other wild level 12 Drowzee. It is therefore unnecessary to provide that extra information. The entry in the list is enough. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:23, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In That Case, What Is The Point Of The Templates On [[Amp Plains tribes]], The Pokemon On The Templates There Are No Different Then Any Other Of Their Species And Level. [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 04:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Because that's not a location article. It doesn't have a list. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It Shouldn't Matter That It's A Location Page. The Point Of Pages Like That Are To Make It Easy For Players To Gather Information From. [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 05:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:.[[Drowzee (Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky)]] That page is about Drowzee. As such, it has the full description, including the template. [[Mt. Bristle]] is about the location, and as such has to provide information on many Pokemon. Thus the information given on each is less so that the page is not bogged down with information which is, quite frankly, unnecessary. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Well, It Was A Common Mistake That I Made, Especially Since There Was No Link To [[Drowzee (Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky)]] On [[Mt. Bristle]]. {{unsigned|Badjb10}}<br />
<br />
== Impossible ==<br />
<br />
This user has behaved in an intimidating and harassing way. Please perform the appropriate action for him/her.--[[User:Muk-a-matic|Muk-a-matic-Maketh the Muk go round...]] ([[User talk:Muk-a-matic|talk]]) 23:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:This has been handled. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re:Templates ==<br />
<br />
no problem, i'll stop.[[User:Purrloin!|Purrloin]][[User talk:Purrloin!|!]] [[Purrloin|Meow!!!]] 22:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Template:User Want==<br />
Hey, I see you were the last one to edit the {{template|User Want}} template. Since that page is protected, could you please add B2W2 to the code? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 11:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Done. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
I don't know if you noticed it... there's a problem with the B2 part: there's not enought contrast between the letters and the background. I could hardly see the letters when I tested it. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry, I missed adding it to one part. is that better? <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
What have you done? I haven't noticed any change. The contrast is the same. Just change the background to black, please. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Ah, I missed another one. Sorry about that, it's fixed properly now. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
It's fixed now ty very much! [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:19, 1 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Protection==<br />
Hey, could you please protect this usertag: <nowiki>{{User:TheOriginalOne/User un}}</nowiki>? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I won't, simply beacuse it's in your userspace, so you need to take care of it. You can't if it gets protected. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
Now, could you please protect <nowiki>{{Template|Unown}}</nowiki>? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:You need to get permission from an admin to create new templates. In this case, the template takes almost as long to type as the code it replaces, so it is not worth having as a template. I should note that a template at that exact name with that exact function was deleted in december 2010 for precisely that reason. Pay attention to the warnings that are displayed when you are editing a page - the wiki should have told you that it had been deleted before and given the deletion log to explain why it was deleted. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:40, 3 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, I know that, I received the strike right after this new message (I tought that the permission rule was just for the usertags). They also told me that there was another one with precisely that function, {{template|uwr}}. About that, since that template is protected, could you please make non-capital letters valid for it?<br />
:About the warning... the delete reason was not enought clear for me; I didn't understand why. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding a Recently Created Page ==<br />
<br />
Hey. You seem to be the only staff member on at the moment, so I wanted to bring this to your attention. I'm not sure how to move it into {{u|Alexsummer}}'s userspace myself, and I don't want to mess anything up. Thanks! [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 03:04, 15 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Moved. You just move the page, select "User" from the namespace dropdown and put their username at the start followed by a slash. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Youtubevid==<br />
Hi, this problem has been bothering me since the very beggining of it... you know, that one with the youtubevid template, because it doesn't work since some months ago (yeah, when I try to preview with the old code, or even see an old version, the browser gives me an error). Now, I was wondering, do you know when it's going to be fixed, or have you even discovered what's the problem? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:44, 20 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:A recent Mediawiki upgrade broke the addon. We're looking into a replacement. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
At least it's going to be recovered... but do you have any info about when is it going to happen? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==AG132 Trainer's Choice Error==<br />
1. It is ''not'' an assumption. I have seen every single episode with a Trainer's Choice, and every single one that asked "Which would be most effective against..?" or "Which Pokémon has the advantage?", it ''always'' meant types. '''Always.'''<br />
2. If it's "still an error," why, pray tell, did you delete it?<br />
3. You should tell that to Dennou Zenshi. "Didn't I just remove it?" he/she says, as if he/she is infallible.<br />
4. I go to Talk pages to discuss something questionable. This is not questionable. It's quite obvious that Kirlia is being mistaken for a Grass-type. You wanna talk about assumption? Ask Dennou why he/she thinks that this TC could ''possibly'' be about Arcanine's ''stats'' and ''learnset''. Really?! That is laughably baseless. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 11:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It's not obvious at all that they mistook Kirlia for a Grass-type, since [[M06]] and [[AG109]] made it clear that Kirlia is a Psychic-type. On the other hand, it ''is'' obvious that the "legendary" Arcanine is better than Kirlia, who is weaker than many unevolved Pokémon. We can't assume that they made a mistake when there's a legitimate reason for their answer.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#AB0909">電</font><font color="#063A73">禅</font>]]<small>[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#fff" face="Tahoma"><span style="text-shadow:#000 0.2em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Den Zen</span></font>]]</small>''' 12:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::The anime is known to make errors in areas in which it has been correct before. Electric affects Ground, then it doesn't, then it does on Rhydon's horn, then it doesn't, then it does in Rhydon's mouth, then it doesn't, etc. If you still honestly believe that this TC subtly refers to stats, unlike every other TC of its kind, then go ahead and edit [[Trainer's Choice]]'s sections to pick ''your'' correct choice. There are many errors that end up being ties, with no Pokémon having an advantage over the stated one. Go ahead and compare every Pokémon's stats to every stated Pokémon's stats and see which is the "correct" one in every single erroneous TC. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 15:30, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Go ahead and look at Ag053's error. Combusken is stated as having an advantage over Kirlia. Now why would the writers do that, hm? Combusken is a mid-stage Pokémon like Kirlia and is roughly as strong, stat-wise. Maybe... ''they think Kirlia's a Grass-type?!'' --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]])<br />
:::My apologies, I should have only removed half of the point. Unless we can actually confirm from someone at 4kids that Kirlia was mistaken for a grass type, that part is an assumption as should not go on the page. It should simply state that the answer is incorrect based on types. Nothing else. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:41, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I still think that it's obvious, but fair enough. We include the error, exclude the assumption. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 01:10, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::While previous advantage based Trainer's Choice questions were about type advantages, nothing specifically demands that the AG132 question followed suit. You're making the assumption, based only on the questions of previous episodes, that this question must be in error. If it's not concrete in either direction, we should not be noting something that may or may not be true. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#DA70D6;">Kogoro</span>''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#FFB6C1;">Talk to me</span>''']] - 02:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ransei facility template. ==<br />
<br />
I've been putting together [[User:Chosen/RanseiFacility|a template for the kingdoms of Ransei]] that would list the Pokémon that appear in their various facilities. I almost have it completed, but there is a strange occurence that's causing the last check mark to appear elevated in a sort of way. Since you worked on the templates I based mine on, I was wondering if you had a solution? Thanks in advance. – [[User:Chosen|<span style="color:#F85888">Chosen</span>]] <span style="color:#6890F0">of</span> [[User talk:Chosen|<span style="color:#F8D030">Mana</span>]] 21:57, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:The line break after the final check mark is included in the cell. You need to put the noinclude (or in this case the opening comment tag) on the same line as the last check mark, then if you want line breaks they go inside that. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:21, 27 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== FRLG sprites ==<br />
<br />
Just saying that there are 3 extra, one for each [[:a:File:Spr 3f Venusaur credits.png|final]] [[:a:File:Spr 3f Charizard credits.png|form]] [[:a:File:Spr 3f Blastoise credits.png|starter]] (credits-exclusive). You might wanna include it in the sprite template (later or now, that's your choice), if you're still working on it. And yes, the 2nd frame is supposed to be blink-and-you'll-miss-it. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 15:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Help meh? ==<br />
<br />
Well, this is a bummer. I can't seem to edit my userpage, let alone start one. I think I made like 4-5 contrbutions to the wiki. What now?<br />
★☆[[User:Togetic45|<span style="color:red;">'''Toge'''</span>]][[User talk:Togetic45|<span style="color:grey;">'''tic'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|<span style="color:blue;">'''45'''</span>]]☆★<br />
:Keep editing the mainspace, you'll get to soon. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== If bumps are prohibited... ==<br />
<br />
...then how are abandoned discussions to be resolved? ''No one'' came to an agreement on the talk page. For over a month. Reverting edits to suppress the issue shouldn't even be allowed. <font face="Verdana">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">BNK</span>]]</font><sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|Talk]]</sup> 05:36, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I have asked a few other staff members who weren't involved in the discussion to take a look at it and decide. And in future, the best thing to do is to either try and add something to the discussion or to ask a staff member directly. 'bumping' is generally an inefficient way of getting attention for something. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:08, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I asked Dennou Zenshi but… ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage is causing Special:Disambiguations to not work, because none of those templates are linked. Can you fix it? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I made a null edit to the mediawiki page, it should start working soon as the server cache clears. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::It's not working… According to the Special:Disambiguations page, they need to be '''linked'''. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:23, 10 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Added links. Also remeoved two that were deleted in 2008. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:04, 10 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archives Lockdown ==<br />
<br />
I've got an image I've been trying to upload for the new Pokémon dolls for the [[Décor]] article, but the lockdown is still in effect on the archives, yet I see lots of daily updates by Jr Admins and above. When will the lockdown be rescinded? <sc>'''[[User:Pyrii|<font color="#e8e">♪Pyrii♫</font>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Pyrii|<font color="#747">talk</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pyrii|<font color="#747">contrib</font>]]</sup></sc> 04:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:How's fifteen minutes ago sound? Just be aware it may be closed again if the server can't cope with the extra load. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Sounds like music to my ears, thanks, now if only the image would show without me having to edit the page. Oh well, anything to increase my edit count XD <sc>'''[[User:Pyrii|<font color="#e8e">♪Pyrii♫</font>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Pyrii|<font color="#747">talk</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pyrii|<font color="#747">contrib</font>]]</sup></sc> 12:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A question about my edit to Template:16TeamBracket ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Werdnae. I made an update to the 16 Team Bracket template a bit ago for a few things. Mainly it was to make the tables be rounded per Bulbapedia style. While it looks good in concept and on most articles; I have seen a few pages where the template gets a bit streched out. Most of the stretching is limited to the [[2009 World Championships]] and the [[2010 World Championships]]. I wanted to know if it was alright or if my edit should be reverted for the moment. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 04:52, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It looks okay to me, but please be careful when editing templates. Especially at the moment when traffic is high due to B2W2, as editing even moderately used templates puts a big strain on the server. I'd prefer that you test it by making a test copy of the template in your userspace with the changes you want to make, before you edit the template. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:16, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Alright then. I think it will be better if I hold off on editing the other related templates. I will make sure to test it in the userspace next time as well. Thank you for checking. :) --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 18:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation templates? ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let me ask you the following: are the Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis wikis close enought for [[Bulbapedia:Sandbox#Interwiki translation notice|this template]] to be valid, and so that you could authorize me to create it on the template mainspace? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Where would it be used? Usually if they've got an article and we don't it's because we've decided that we either don't want the article, or don't want the article yet. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::... and it's very rare for an article to be based on a wikipedia one: you could easily say that it's because you normaly don't want that article (yet), specialy when we're talking about a wiki that's too much general on those matters. So why does {{template|WikipediaBased}} exist, when there are certain wikis from our partnership that sometimes write something notable before Bulbapedia? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 23:13, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::The WikipediaBased template is an overhang from when Bulbapedia was a wee infant with a userbase of a couple of hundred people. We're bigger than that now, and in general that template just shouldn't be used on any new articles.<br />
<br />
:::In regards to other wikis having articles on "notable" stuff before we do, that's because each wiki has its own independent notability and rules system. In particular, we have a "Wait until it airs" rule for the anime and most, if not all, of our partners don't. We're a bigger, more active wiki and so we have higher standards that must be met before we start the articles. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wp template: update to support (and strictly use) HTTPS ==<br />
<br />
[[Template talk:Wp#HTTPS|See this]]. What do you think of the suggestion? I'm not sure if this discussion topic should be kept on your talk page or at the template's talk page, by the way. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 18:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
<br />
I just noticed that I forgot to add typen= function to the GlitchSpirteBox template. It will just display a Unknown color background if there is no type2=. I [[User:Rsrdaman/sandbox|tried]] to get it to work but no no avail. Any tips?--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 19:42, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Inside parameters you ''can't'' use <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki>. It must be a pipe, because the way that template hides the pipe from parser fuctions such as switches means it also hides them from templates and parameters. <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki> should only be used to replace the pipes in table coding. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:57, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Ahh, ok... I finally got it to work now. Thanks again. --[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 09:03, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Random questions ==<br />
<br />
# Are we allowed to edit other user's pages to remove a [[Special:WantedTemplates|nonexisting template]] or a [[Special:WantedPages|non-existing page]]?<br />
## If not, are we allowed to alert the user?<br />
# Would it be a good idea to implement the #ifexist: function into {{template|Red link}}?<br />
Thank you for your time. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:# Yes, provided that's all you do.<br />
:#I don't think that's a good idea. Firstly because the template is extremely high use and any edit is likely to crash the wiki. Second, because it's okay for pages we actually want to be on the wanted pages list, so anything that's definitely going to get a page shouldn't use the template. Thirdly because ifexists are expensive functions and adding that to the template would significantly increase the load that each use of the template puts on the server. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:43, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::[[Zinzolin]] and {{ga|Rosa}} link to Template:Textcolor. Should it exist, or is something wrong? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:47, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::It's the Pokemon templates. If only some of the moves are known or a Pokemon only knows 1-3 moves, the parameters for the remaining moves must be removed, not just blanked. If they're blank, the template sees that they're there, and so doesn't use the defaults. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:56, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archives stuff ==<br />
<br />
As I'm working on the Glitchdex, a common problem I come across in incorrectly named images, or duplicates. Currently there are a lot of them and what I've been doing (just putting up <nowiki> {{Delete}} or {{move}} templates</nowiki>) is taking a lot of time and just making the current admins workload more. I really hate to {{tt|ask|as I know asking for power anywhere is a no-no}}, but as I read on the [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Staff#Becoming_an_administrator Archives Staff] page, it said high-ups can bestow temporary admin power. So is there any way I can get that to move/delete all of these files?--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 00:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Not currently. Due to the recent server move and game releases the Archives are actually a little unstable for the time being. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've moved the images for you Rsrdaman. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]]''''' 02:46, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Navigation templates ==<br />
<br />
In many navigation templates, I see the " • ", but in others I see " | ". Should I change them to one way or another, or just let it be? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:58, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Just let it be. Different templates call for different things. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:32, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Tournament infobox ==<br />
<br />
How does [[User:Abcboy/sandbox/TournamentInfobox|this]] look? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 22:21, 23 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Firsly, it needs to be roundy to match our style. I know you've based it on the game screen, but it still should be roundy because otherwise it looks out of place. Also because following the game design that strictly means that if it gets redesigned in future games, the template looks bad. They're 'inspired' by the game design, rather than emulating it.<br />
<br />
:Secondly, the align tags need to be replaced. Content alignment (i.e. text and images) can be done with the "text-align" style (i.e. <code>style="text-align:left/right/center;"</code>), while table alignment can be done with the float style for left or right (i.e. <code>style="float:left/right;"</code>) or the margin style for centering (i.e. <code>style="margin:auto;"</code>). This is important because the align tags are deprecated and only currently working on a backwards-compatability setup which could stop working at any time.<br />
<br />
:Other than those two minor things, nice work on the template. It's a nice code setup. Just don't be afraid to mess around with the styles from the game. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:00, 23 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::How does it look now? I just wrapped that splash of green around the top, removed several of the old dividers leaving only one, and made it roundier! It doesn't really conform to the Bulbapedia style, but I think it looks pretty good. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:44, 24 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Much better. The code's good and the design's good. I'm going to need to discuss it with a few other staff and get back to you just for the content, because I don't know that much about the PWT. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:14, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::[[User:Abcboy/sandbox/NewBerry|This]] is something I want to do to the Berry pages, along with moving the growth template to the growth section. Doing this would extremely reduce the size of the infobox. I need a little bit of help on the Generation IV one though... --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:43, 29 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Language support templates ==<br />
<br />
I was looking at Wikipedia and they have some nice language support templates such as {{wp|Template:Nihongo}}, {{wp|Template:Korean}} and {{wp|Template:Zh}}. The Japanese one is particularly useful as it renders kanji properly. I was thinking on adding them to Bulbapedia but would like to know the staff's opinion on them. If they are accepted, I would ask Wikipedia for permission of usage of the templates here (please note that I do not have an account there) and try them out in my sandbox here first. What do you think? [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 13:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:If I'm not mistaken, we already use the same code that those templates use to display the characters. It's an html attribute, <code>lang="ja"</code> ("ja" is replaced with "ko" or "zh" for the latter two templates). The reason that ours may appear distorted is that, depending on where they are used, the characters are subsequently bolded and/or reduced in size. I have noticed that it becomes very difficult to read in templates where both are done. In short, I don't think we need the template as we (should) already use the relevant code that it contains. If there's somewhere the language code isn't used, it most certainly should be, and you're welcome to add it: <code><nowiki><span lang="ja">Kanji goes here</span></nowiki></code> <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, correction, it appears that we're certainly not using that code everywhere. I know for certain that some templates do. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:36, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, I don't like them solely for the proper rendering of kanji. It's also because the templates help to standardize the way the Japanese/Korean/Chinese names should appear on articles. They also have the parameters <code>lead=yes</code> and <code>lead=no</code>, which allows the reader to know which written non-English language is he/she reading, with that element being present in the first instance of the language ''only''. It also helps in situations when there's no English equivalent to the Japanese/Korean/Chinese name, allowing the text to appear differently ordered to accomodate the situation. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 19:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm still not sure it's necessary. The usage of Japanese text is pretty much standardised already, with an identification. (i.e. the opening lines of the articles.) I can see where you're coming from, I just don't know if we need it, when things are hardcoded in a relatively (I would hope) similar manner. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well, I understand your point of view but please reconsider. It may be awkward at first but these specific templates help once we get used to them. At least, that's how I feel about them. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 14:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Infobox game update ==<br />
<br />
I've tweaked and added some parameters to it as per feedback on the template's talk page as well as from my own ideas. Check the modified template [[User:SatoMew2/GameInfoboxTweaks|here]] and some tests with it [[User talk:SatoMew2/GameInfoboxTweaks|here]]. Basically, I did the following:<br />
* Changed ''info'' in '''Basic info''' to ''information'' to be more professional and encyclopedic;<br />
* Changed OFLC to ACB in the '''Ratings''' since the ratings were of the ACB, which was previously called OFLC, and also due to there being confusion over the independent OFLC from New Zealand. Furthermore, the OFLC from New Zealand is irrelevant as the Pokémon games released there are under control of Nintendo of Australia, the subsidiary of Nintendo for both Australia and New Zealand. Thus, the ratings for the games in these two countries are as per the ACB;<br />
* Added the parameter for the OSK rating, which is the German rating system and is applicable to the Pokémon games;<br />
* Added parameters to include the translations of Japanese names under the Japanese name, in smaller text (same size as Japanese text);<br />
* Added other essential parameters about the games;<br />
* Renamed various parameters, rendering the previous names obsolete and current usage of the template broken;<br />
* Added "N/A" as fallback text for everything, for the sake of simplicity, consistency and to avoid showing the parameters themselves if there is a need to fallback to them.<br />
Either way, wherever the template is used, those applications of it have to be updated. Still, what do you think? I believe it makes the template more accurate and complete now. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 20:52, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Looks good to me. I don't suppose you'd be able to replace the align tags as described a couple of sections up? <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've replaced the <code>align</code> tags as you suggested, since they are deprecated. I have also changed the template's default colors to match Bulbapedia (damn, that black and white sure were not that good-looking) and streamlined the code, with suggestions and help from Abcboy ([[User talk:SatoMew2#Your game infobox|see here]]).<br />
:::Thanks, nice work. I pulled out a few of them that were carried over redundant tags from the old template (and a few due to minor changes in what the tags cover) and then put it into use. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm glad you liked it. But please protect the template page! I'm sure it was an oversight. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 20:44, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sorry for the bother ==<br />
<br />
Who do we talk to these days about checking new user IP's? Since I haven't been around much lately, I'm not sure which admin usually does what now. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 15:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Anyone at {{bp|Staff|Admin level}} or above can check IPs. There's not really one designated person who does it. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 16:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Hmm. Okay. I noticed a pattern in a lot of new usernames from the past few days, and as I'm going down the list, I've found about 70 from the past 8 days... didn't realize it went on this far. Names like AldocrjkpohdhrArvidson, DelmarlkcbffxubiDess, AdriansseedyjwjnRosander, YasukokehplwkzlmCurren, etc. It might not be worth trying to go through and block all of the names if there end up being a couple hundred of them, but I felt it needed to be brought up if it wasn't already known. It looks like most of them are getting ignored by people welcoming users, so I'm not the only one who's noticed. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 18:39, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::And now that I'm looking around a lot more, I see that other people have already mentioned it to a couple of you. Whoops. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 18:45, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Looking at the names, they're almost certainly spambots. Fortunately, most spambots try to create pages or userpages, and so are foiled by our autoconfirm requirements. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== LevelV template. ==<br />
<br />
Could you do that for other generations? Because movesets liked to change also in other generations. Some, like {{p|Mewtwo}}'s or {{p|Medicham}}'s could use that for Generation III. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 10:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I believe they already drafted somewhere, it's just a matter of getting them cleared by everyone and implementing them, and since I haven't had time I haven't pushed the matter. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 10:48, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Werdnae/Sandbox/Learnlist/levelIV|Here's my initial draft]] from a while back. I haven't had the time to complete it. If I'm remembering correctly, I also came across something that was going to be an issue for that template, but I don't recall exactly what that was. I know there were several possible solutions, and I think Kogoro built another prototype. Long story short, we're working on it, but it has come across a few issues, along with not being a priority. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:35, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::I felt liked doing it. I borrowed your template, copied onto userpage the header from mainspace and modified it, and [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates|this is result]] (well, obviously that "Header." text will be removed). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 14:39, 22 November 2012 (UTC) PS. And.... done, I think. You might want to check the templates if there is something to correct (still not sure if use RGB and Y or RB and Y in Generation I template), though. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 13:02, 23 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wiki code ==<br />
<br />
You seem to be the correct person to ask...<br />
<br />
On anime pokemon move templates such as this:<br />
<br />
<!--{{anmov/h|poison||Ash Muk {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}}}<br />
{{anmov|normal|Body Slam|EP077|The Fourth Round Rumble}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Poison Gas|EP115|A Tent Situation}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Sludge Bomb|EP270|Can't Beat the Heat!}}<br />
{{anmov/f|poison}}--><br />
* Poison Gas was used in the [[dub]] only. In the original Japanese version, Ash just said Muk's name, ''Betbeton''.<br />
<br />
I tried to to take the note at the bottom and put it into the actual template, using tt|*| next to Poison Gas, in order to make it look neater howevr it comes out like this<br />
<br />
<!--{{anmov/h|poison||Ash Muk {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}}}<br />
{{anmov|normal|Body Slam|EP077|The Fourth Round Rumble}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Poison Gas{{tt|*|Dub only}}|EP115|A Tent Situation}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Sludge Bomb|EP270|Can't Beat the Heat!}}<br />
{{anmov/f|poison}}--><br />
<br />
<br />
is their anyway the template can be changed so that we can put the tt|*| inside it? [[User:05308|<font color="blue">Diamond</font>]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|<font color="yellow">Lanturn</font>]] [[User talk:05308|<font color="red">CodeName: 05308</font>]] 16:26, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Adding a tooltip onto a parameter which autolinks will ''never'' work like that, because it's inside the link. The template needs the notes to be in parameter 4, which is alternate text and so can handle the tooltip template.<br />
<br />
:Also, if a proposed usage of a template is broken, please don't save it as-is. Saving a broken template usage is likely to create other problems. Instead, put it inside comment tags, and people that want to see the problem can remove them and preview. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magnagate ==<br />
<br />
What do you think of [[User talk:Abcboy/sandbox/MagnagateItemlistEntry|this]]? I can't really think of a way to compress it further. Also, congrats on your promotion. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks. And I'd suggest adding a column to the template for floors. I'd imagine that, especially in the larger dungeons, the available items might change depending on how far into them you are. I know that's the case for the other MD games. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the needed parameter. Perhaps the template could be used on '''all dungeons''' instead of just Magnagate ones. Also, your page needs a bit of updating and protection. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:10, 10 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::I'd prefer the floor parameter to display all the time. Otherwise it's unclear whether it is on all the floors or we just don't know the floors. The second line of the footer is a bit of a cop-out in that regard - either we know, or we don't. "seems" doesn't fit. Agreed that it would be on all the dungeons. I also think that we'd be better off including Poke in a row of the table, rather than a footnote. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Does [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pokedex-for-ios/id573135437?mt=8 Pokédex for iOS] deserve an article? It's been out for a month in Japan, and was recently released in the US and Europe. No idea about Australia and New Zaeland though. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 05:05, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::As an official app, I would say yes. Also, as you may have noticed, I moved that template. Nice work on it, it's simple but effective. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Because ==<br />
<br />
You've deserved this. A sincere congratulations to you, my fellow Kiwi. If you need a hand with anything, let me know. I've got some spare time these days. (Except for the rest of this week coz I'm going to Wellington. You should totally skip town and come join me. It'll be ''rad''.) &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 10:36, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks trom. Have fun in Wellywood. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Congrats, my friend! ==<br />
<br />
Well, since I can't see a section on here for this, I figured I would be the one to officially start one. Congratulations on the well-deserved and well-earned promotion to EiC. As one of the people on here who knew you way back when you were a Jr. Admin., I can say that I can't think of anyone else who has put as much hard work into the 'pedia, or who I would rather have in the job. You have been a kind and helpful mentor to many people on here (including me), so I just wanted to say thank you for that. Your leadership skills and dedication are what have brought you thus far, and I look forward to seeing how the 'pedia prospers under your guidance. Although I do not get the chance to edit as much as I would like to nowadays (business and responsibilities IRL), know that I have always been, and will always be, your friend. Should you need anything, you have but to ask. --[[User:Jediknightdtv|<span style="color:blue">ジェダイナイト</span>]][[User talk:Jediknightdtv|<span style="color:green">ディーティーブイ</span>]] 19:45, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Conquest ==<br />
<br />
Could you add more information to the page [[Pokémon Conquest]] and related articles, please. Also, there isn't much information on Pokémon pages about the kingdoms where you can find them and I've seen a few pages conflict with one another. In the [[Sneasel]] page, it says Sneasel can be found in [[Nixtorm]], but in the Nixtorm page, Sneasel isn't mentioned at all. {{unsigned|Plusleminun311312}}<br />
:Bulbapedia is a wiki, information is added by many of our users, not just staff. I don't have the info you're looking for in order to add it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image thing ==<br />
<br />
Hey Werdnae, sorry to bother you but this is bugging me, long story short whenever I try to view or use [[a:File:PMBW01.png]] on an article (such as [[PMBW01]]), it shows a different image that used to be at that name, but was moved. I tried in different browsers, different computers, I tried clearing the cache, it's still messed up. Can you figure out why it's broken for me :( thanks!!! (hope you understand what I mean and I don't look silly XD) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 22:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like it's okay to me. I'm guesing that it just took a little time until the CDN synced the images. It usually happens quickly, but depending on load may take closer to 24 hours. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small><br />
::That is so weird. Here's how it looks to me: [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/zeldascousin/Untitled-2.jpg] [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 05:02, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::It's the same for me, seems the CDN didn't properly update for all regions. It will be fixed soon. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#DA70D6;">Kogoro</span>''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#FFB6C1;">Talk to me</span>''']] - 05:09, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Ah, a regional thing. IIRC that has happened once or twice before, where updates on one or more servers are delayed relative to the others. Thanks for taking care of it Kogsie. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Okay, cool. Thank you both :) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 02:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Just so y'all know, it's fixed for me :D [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 02:55, 22 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B2W2 autoconfirmed protection ==<br />
<br />
It's been several months since B2W2 came out, and several B2W2 articles ([[Strange House]], [[Relic Passage]], [[Clay Tunnel]], [[Cave of Being]], and [[Pledge Grove]]) are still protected from non-autoconfirmed users. Several B2W2 redirects ([[Banjirou]], [[Heart Cave]], [[Relic Path]], [[Stranger House]], [[Clay Road]], and [[Oath Woods]]) are also still protected from non-autoconfirmed users. Were they forgotten? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Looks like it. I'd assumed that all the B2W2 protections were set to expire shortly after release, but looks like a few were set to infinite length by mistake. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==King of Almia page==<br />
<br />
Is there anybody on Project Sidegames who is watching the "King of Almia and the Three Princes" page? There are about three unanswered questions on the talk page. [[User:Aggron989|Aggron989]] ([[User talk:Aggron989|talk]]) 23:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Idea ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I was wondering if I could talk to you about adding a relationship section to the prominent characters of the series. --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 04:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Werdnae's away at the moment, but he gave me permission to respond to you in his stead. We feel relationship sections are not needed on character articles, as more than likely it will only lead to problems because of [[Shipping]]. Also, relatives are already mentioned in the infobox on articles. If you'd like to go in-depth about interactions between characters, then your attention is better suited for the shipping articles. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 04:54, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
That wasn't what I meant. What I'm trying to suggest is adding short summaries of some of the characters interactions, and for the shippings we'd just leave a link. It'd probably be easier if I showed you an example, so with your permission can I do it on Iris or Trip? --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 15:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:That kind of information should be worked into the "Character" section, as their interactions with other people are a significant part of their character. It shouldn't need to go overly specific, just their general behaviour towards other people and anything markedly different. Looking at Trip's page, it appears this is already the case: specifically the second and fourth paragraphs of the Character section. Shippings should not be included there unless they are specifically stated in canon. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:04, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
Your kinda misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm referring to interactions that don't have any shippings, like with Iris and Cynthia or Georgia and Burgundy. I'll show you what I mean if you let me try it for Iris. --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 19:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I know what you're meaning. What I'm saying is I don't want a list. The behaviour that is underlying the interactions should be included in the character section without the need to list. Important events should be included in the history section. We have existing places to put that information. We don't need to duplicate it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 17:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
"Sighs" fine, then how about a battle record for the site then? You know, somethings similar to what's on the full battle page? --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 06:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
==Thankyou==<br />
Thanks for you suggestion Werdane on Crystal's talkpage. I will check the spam folder.[[User:Minor Notes|Minor Notes]] ([[User talk:Minor Notes|talk]]) 23:37, 31 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remember me? ==<br />
<br />
Yes, it is I, your biggest fan, and I'm back. I always knew you would make the job, and good job.<br />
I love this place, and hope to be a help. <br />
<br />
Cam ♣♣ ''[[User:Focus58|<font color="Red">Ƒǿҫὑṩ</font>]] [[User talk:Focus58|<font color="olive">❺❽</font>]]'' ♣♣ 13:22, 2 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Random question ==<br />
<br />
Hi Werdnae :) sorry to bother you with this, but {{u|Umeko}} never writes me back so I thought it was best to come to you. I was wondering if you think [[User:Zesty Cactus/Misty's Song (single)|this article]], which I've worked on in my user space, was worth it for a mainspace article. My explanation is in the user message on the article. I'd appreciate your feedback. (I'm scared to just make the decision myself since I feel I don't have that much authority over Music, since while I do contribute to the project, idk, I feel like it's not my place XD) thanks again :) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 17:38, 18 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Music articles aren't my expertise, but would it be plausible to make it a proper section on the existing page? Neither of them really have that much info, so they might be better together? You've got more experience with those articles, so I'll trust your judgement on it, whatever you decide is better. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:26, 19 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Disambig pages ==<br />
<br />
What is the rule for disambiguation pages? I know that Pokémon receive them. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 05:59, 23 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Pokémon get disabmigs at X (Disambiguation) because there's already a lot of stuff to fit at the top of their page and the species names redirect there. Otherwise, it's just whether one is significantly more important than the other (Also, English names always trump Japanese names) or they're equal importance. If there's numerous things, then it might get a disambig, if there's just a few and the 'main' article is small then a note at the top is easier. There's no real hard and fast rule, it's more of a 'is this working?' and 'what are people more likely to be looking for?'. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:11, 23 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userspace Editing ==<br />
<br />
I know I must seem like quite a newbie posting this, but, I just don't understand this. I swear,I edited my Userspace twice yesterday, and twice today, I'm confused.<br />
<br />
[[User:PokefanR|PokefanR]] ([[User talk:PokefanR|talk]]) 04:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We use the wiki's UTC clock to check the days, and there are five edits in one day [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User:PokefanR&action=history here]. Make sure that you're clicking preview and not save when you want to check your page, and edit the whole page at once with the edit tab at the very top, rather than editing each section one at a time - every time you click the save button counts as an edit, rather than every set of changes you want to make. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Percentages ==<br />
<br />
First of all, sorry if I'm talking to the wrong person, as far as the Bulbapedia hierarchy goes you seem pretty high so I thought I'd start here...<br />
Basically I wanted to do a small information design project about pokemon types but discovered that the breakdown the types into percentages adds up to about 146%. Is there incorrect information or am I being a complete dope?<br />
<br />
thanks<br />
<br />
Edit: I was forgetting, cheers man. I'm off to buy a brain.<br />
<br />
[[User:Matthauke|Matthauke]] ([[User talk:Matthauke|talk]]) 22:03, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[User:Matthauke|Matthauke]] ([[User talk:Matthauke|talk]]) 00:25, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm guessing that you're forgetting about dual-typed Pokémon. Because of them, the "This percent of Pokémon are XXX type" will always add to more than 100, because you're counting some twice. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:24, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userspace permission ==<br />
<br />
Small non-urgent question. I haven't been able to edit my userspace for years now it would seem, except I have been able to in the past. I don't remember any notification that my rights were removed (and I only edited it once a day, not to mention that was years ago). Can I know why I don't have the right and possibly how to fix that? Is it just a certain number of mainspace edits we need now? I'm mostly concerned about fixing way outdated information such as age. Thank you! <br />
<br />
update: Seems to be resolved now. [[User:Ratikate|Ratikate]] ([[User talk:Ratikate|talk]]) 15:29, 8 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My small update batch to Infobox game ==<br />
<br />
Why was it reverted and when will it be readded? [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 22:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:It was reverted because I screwed up. I should have done a few things that I didn't, and in hindsight didn't read what you were telling me either. The most urgent issue was that the parameters were changed, which is generally a bad idea as it breaks the pages until they can be fixed. There were a few other things that some people weren't sure about, so I'll need to talk to other staff about it some more. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates]] ==<br />
<br />
You{{tt|*|Because you created the one I am basing it upon}} (or someone else... except Snorlax since he seems busy or something) may want to do something with this (because I have no idea what to do with it now, minus fixing any errors and incompatibilities with what we have, that could sneak in) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'll look into it. Thanks for making the rest of them. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New page ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is more information about [[Liberate the Tower!]] than Operation Brighton from [[Pokémon Ranger:Shadows of Almia]] on Bulbapedia. This doesn't seem right to me. Is it important enough that I can create an article about it? It's a kind of obscure subject, so I thought I should ask somebody on Project Sidegames first. [[User:Aggron989|<span style="color:#858585;">''AGG''</span>]][[User talk:Aggron989|<span style="color:#858585;">''RON''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Aggron989|<span style="color:#444444;">''989''</span>]] 19:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ranger Net missions get sections because they aren't part of the core game. Information on Operation Brighton goes in the plot section of the SoA article. The ranger net plot can't go there because it's separate, so it gets a section elsewhere. It might look like there's more info on Liberate the Tower than on Operation Brighton, but that's just because it's separate from the rest. There's actually a lot more info on Operation Brighton (the majority of the final paragraph of the plot section) than Liberate the tower (one sentence in its own section). The rest is just about the Darkrai once it gets to the main series games. The information on Operation Brighton is better suited to the plot section of the game page than its own article. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:47, 5 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Project Picture ==<br />
Hi Werdnae,<br />
Can I please make a project that make good quality images and put them on pages? I noticed that there are a lot of old images or low resolution images that needs to be replaced. Thanks! [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 02:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:That is what the [[a:Main Page|Archives]] are. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:57, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Taking in game pictures==<br />
Hi again Werdnae, how do you take a picture of a bird's eye view of a Pokemon route or a Pokemon city like the ones used on Bulbapedia? Thanks. [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 08:44, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:# Don't delete comments from talk pages.<br />
:# If I knew that, don't you think I'd have already ''done'' that for the ones we don't have?. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How would I go about ==<br />
<br />
changing my username to Launchballer? It is the name I use everywhere else.--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 10:38, 15 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You'll need to talk to {{u|Kogoro}} for that. It's a fairly involved process, and I don't really have the time for that at the moment. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Project Fandom Leader ==<br />
<br />
[[User:$aturn¥oshi|$aturn¥oshi]] has been inactive for three years, yet he is still leader of [[Bulbapedia:Project Fandom|Project Fandom]]. Just wanted to point that out.--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 03:20, 17 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm aware. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How do you edit templates? ==<br />
<br />
Hello Werdnae, how do you edit existing templates? I noticed that on the Hoenn League template, the battle sprites of Steven and Wallace, are from generation III, not from generation V, and it's best to use the latest sprites. And if you think that I shouldn't be doing this, on the Hoenn gym leaders template, Wallace overworld sprite from generation V used, and he entered the PWT as a champion, not as a gym leader. Also, on the Kanto gym leaders template, Koga's overworld sprite is from generation IV, while he is an elite four member at that time. So please tell me how to edit the Hoenn League template. Thanks! [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 00:40, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Those should not be changed because there ''must'' be consistency within the table. for ''isolated images'' newer is generally (but not always) better, but in tables like that it looks terrible if they don't match. And the reason that you can't edit most templates is that they are protected. This is done because every edit made to them puts a very large load on the server. <br />
<br />
:Please also use the preview button when you're editing so that you don't have to edit the same page so many times in a row. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, on the Kanto gym leader template Koga is the only person to have a generation IV overworld sprite, so should we change every other gym leader sprite in that template to generation IV for consistency within the table? [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 01:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::In that case, Gen IV and Gen V sprites are similar enough that it's acceptable. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 02:20, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== pokemon ==<br />
Sorry........I didn't knew that it is illegally showed on that sites.<br />
One more thing that I am quite new to Bulbapedia ,but I do a lots of mainspace edits I am asking that anybody sees the edits I am making regularly?--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 12:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:First part, it's fine, we just have to be super strict about it. Second part, yes. All edits show up on the [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes list]], and most staff (as well as some non-staff users) regularly watch that, so they'll see when you've made an edit. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== This is bugging me... ==<br />
<br />
It's regarding the "a" in the file links to avoid getting them in the wanted pages. One side wants me to use <nowiki>[[:a:File:</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>[[a:File:</nowiki>, and another side wants me to use <nowiki>[[a:File:</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>[[:a:File:</nowiki>. I am being told two different things that I was supposed to do which is getting nowhere. So which side is actually right? [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 23:28, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Both. <nowiki>[[:a:File: and [[a:File: both work properly, so it's up to the person writing the code for the link. The one to avoid is [[:File:</nowiki> which puts it on the wanted files list. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:25, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Picture for [[Feraligatr]] ==<br />
Hello, Werdnae,<br />
<br />
I have a Pokemon Silver Pokedex printer entry for [[Feraligatr]]. I don't know how to put it in there.<br />
<br />
- Christopher Matias (NutwiisystemRocks) 17:10, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Uploads are done over on the [[a:Main Page|Archives]]. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:03, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Okay, thanks! Christopher Matias (NutwiisystemRocks) 21:28, 26 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==New Project Idea==<br />
I have an idea for a project that will help players build a team, or become successful with their current team. I already have some good strategies with Pokemon such as Espeon and Umbreon. I am messaging you to ask if the scope is broad enough for me to create this project. Thank you for your consideration.<br />
([[User:Littleroot Leader Cam|Littleroot Leader Cam]] ([[User talk:Littleroot Leader Cam|talk]]) 18:25, 5 June 2013 (UTC))<br />
:That's beyond the scope of Bulbapedia. Bulbapedia is an encyclopedia, reporting facts, not strategies. You are, however, welcome to share strategies in the [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f518/ battle centre] over on the forums, which intended for strategy help. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Youtubevid template==<br />
Hi. Today I was thinking about how weird it was to being still facing the problem with this template, after all these months. So, I decided to see if it still didn't work. And guess what: I viewed the source from the last edit done while it was still working - and it worked! I suggest you go check it out for yourself, and then, unless I commited a mistake, change it: it's over, I guess. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 22:22, 9 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd rather not, primarily because the old method has a security risk. I'm close to getting a replacement that isn't, I just need to do some more testing. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:35, 10 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As an addition to that, the old template was responsible for a few loading problems, where it pushed even moderately sized pages over the limit and prevented them from loading. We're still hammering out the details, but the usage is going to have to be much more restricted than it was, and we're going to have to remove any uses deemed unnecessary before the template can be fixed. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:07, 10 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==LANDpedia==<br />
Hi, I want to ask you another question: as you may know, our portuguese-speaking partner has been closed for a long time, even tough the rest of the page looks alright. What I want to ask you is if, as the EiC, you have any idea of the cause of this problem, and if you think this puts in cause the presence of LANDpedia in Encyclopediae Pokémonis. Thanks. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:03, 27 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I don't have any knowledge on why, other than what you've noticed already. That said, if a wiki 'falls over' as it were, it's most frequently due to a lack of input from the community. That's also why Bulbapedia doesn't actively start new wikis for EP - if the community support needed to survive is there, then they'll make it themselves. If there's not enough of a community to sustain it then no amount of forcing will make that happen. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:08, 28 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Looks like the same has happened with [http://poketeca.com Pokéteca] (not even [http://pkstation.com the original fan site] works). Now the thing is (and the answer I was really seeking): do you think it's worth to keep defunct sites on EP? In case the answer is yes, then what do you think it should be done if another fast-growing wiki in Portuguese/Spanish appeared? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 22:26, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The inclusion (or exclusion) of a wiki from EP isn't up to me. On the 'Bulbagarden' opinion I have significant weight, but I would still need to discuss that with others before weighing in, and the ultimate decision rests with Archaic. In addition, while Bulbapedia is the oldest of the member wikis, and one of the founding members, we aren't the leader - the other members each get their say as well in any decision. I would guess that if it became a choice between a dead wiki and an active wiki of the same language, the old one would likely be replaced. I doubt we'll end up in that circumstance though, because as I mentioned earlier, they die because there's not enough of a userbase to sustain them, and as a result, not enough of a userbase to build and maintain a new one. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Yeah, I knew you weren't totaly responsible for this. But what about the "in other languages" box? Should we keep the pt and es links? Or is this also Archaic's responsibility? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 17:47, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::As long as they're still EP members we should keep the links. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Well, forgive me for the Pokéteca thing: it didn't close, it was just a temporary measure. Just for you to know. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:red">'''オリ'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:green">'''ジ'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:blue">'''ナル'''</span>]] <small>TheOriginalOne</small> 18:10, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Something you didn't notice...==<br />
Hi. I was seeing some template pages of the wiki related to the Main Page, and noticed that [[Template:Main Page/Featured content|this one]] had somehow got unprotected (I viewed the logs and noticed that it was protected in the past, tough without seeing any other change to its protection status). <s>If I wanted, I could have vandalized the Main Page in many fun ways.</s> Please protect it. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 15:54, 13 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Wow, nice spotting. Thanks for letting me know. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:06, 13 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates|Learnlist templates]] ==<br />
<br />
Still sits in userspace (though I recently fixed a small derp). And the style we have for G1-G4 is... really, not too {{tt|practical|though Crystal has hardly any changes in movesets, that's why I gave like 4 examples}} (unlike G5 template). What left to do with that template? [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:There's a couple of minor aesthetic tweaks I'd like to make, but they'll be a bit time consuming. I'll see if I have time, but it might need to wait until the weekend. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Okay. In meantime, I will go look who needs it. I once did that, but lost the list :/ [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:15, 25 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I forgot that there was still the header that needed adjustment, so it took me longer than expected. I've created [[Template:Learnlist/levelh/4]] for the header of the generation IV subpages, and moved the two Generation IV list templates to [[Template:Learnlist/levelIVj]] (where the change was introduced in the Johto games) and [[Template:Learnlist/levelIVs]] (where the change was introduced within Sinnoh, i.e. between DP and Pt). The earlier generation templates will need to wait a bit, they need a separate header and more extensive tweaking. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:37, 2 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sitenotice ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't that be 'confirmation' not 'conformation'?--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 00:42, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ha! Yes, thanks for letting me know (also thanks to Kogsie for fixing it). Clearly I have been thinking too much about my chemistry, and didn't notice. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:18, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I also noticed something in the site notice. Shouldn't "IRC" be in all caps, being an acronym and all? Correct me if I'm wrong... '''&mdash;[[User:Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#F7C83B;">Bob</span>]] [[User talk:Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#276FEA;">Roberts</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#2D2D2D;">III</span>]]''' 02:13, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks for pointing that out, I'd copied that from an earlier revision. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:44, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question ==<br />
<br />
[[User talk:Brianne23E|This]] user appears to have created their talk page and put some sort of advertising on it. They must be brand new, because there's no sign of a welcome template being put on there. What should be done? [[User:Pokegen master|Pokegen master]] ([[User talk:Pokegen master|talk]]) 21:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Exactly what you did. That's a characteristic spambot action, so a staff member needs to take care of it. Thanks for mentioning it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PokéInfobox ==<br />
<br />
There are {{tt|few|read: five; Abra, Geodude, Machop, Omanyte and Kabuto as far as I know}} Generation I Pokémon whose exp yield was changed in G4, so technically they need three fields. (or the tt template?) 07:40, 4 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ugh, can't they just make up their mind? Thanks for mentioning it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There's more... {{tt|And it's not only Generation 1.|Found on upokecenter.com then verified in-game}}<br />
::Lv. 25 Kabutops (G3: {{tt|717|yield of 201}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Dunsparce (G3: {{tt|267|yield of 75}}; G4: {{tt|446|yield of 125}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Silcoon (G3: {{tt|253|yield of 71}}; G4: {{tt|257|yield of 72}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Dustox (G3: {{tt|571|yield of 160}}; G4: {{tt|575|yield of 161}}){{tt|*|Bit of trivia: These had their yield changed to match the one of their counterpat (Silcoon and Beautifly, respecitvely}}<br />
::Lv. 25 Lileep (G3: {{tt|432|yield of 121}}; G4: {{tt|353|yield of 99}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Cradily (G3: {{tt|717|yield of 201}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Anorith (G3: {{tt|425|yield of 119}}; G4: {{tt|353|yield of 99}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Armaldo (G3: {{tt|714|yield of 200}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::That's quite bit of changes... [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Abilities ==<br />
<br />
Do you know what sidegames (minus PMD) have description for Abilities (these that exist in main series; since eg. Conquest has both those in main-series and new ones). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC) PS. Asking because [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/AbilityInfobox|this]]. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:50, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I can't think of any that you haven't already mentioned without research. As you said, PMD and Conquest do. Ranger doesn't, Rumble has [[Special Trait]]s instead. PokéPark I don't recall having abilities, and most of the others were before Gen III. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Side series ==<br />
<br />
For over a month, {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has neglected to answer {{DL|User talk:SnorlaxMonster|Side series|my query}}, so I've come to you instead. {{DL|Talk:Generation VI|"For the first time in the main series, the games will be in full 3D"?|According to him}}, it was decided years ago that the Stadium, Box, and Colosseum series make up the "side series" rather than main or spin-off series. At my prodding, the respective games' pages were updated to acknowledge this, but we still have no template or mainspace page for side series, so all those links still redirect to spin-off series, [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Games&curid=11934&diff=1951987&oldid=1917244 to the confusion of uninformed users]. I drafted the article and template we need in my userspace ([[User:Pumpkinking0192/Side series]] and [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Template:Side series]]). Are these suitable for mainspacing? If not, how can I fix that? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 03:24, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:There was some miscommunication, resulting in a 'decision' to change the naming scheme being made without the proper input or approval of the Editorial Board, which is required for such a large, widespread change. There are several issues with the rename which have been brought to our attention and the change has been put on hold until the issues can be sorted, but it's taking a long time because there are many more things which are significantly more important, such as a number of very complex templates needing a complete rebuild before XY due to new mechanics. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for letting me know. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:44, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I cant add mew glitch yellow pic ==<br />
<br />
pleas read subject--[[User:Mecha mew 2|Mecha mew 2]] ([[User talk:Mecha mew 2|talk]]) 15:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Images are uploaded over on the [[a:Main Page|Bulbagargen Archives]]. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== List of Pokémon Pocket Monsters chapters ==<br />
<br />
Would it be alright to ask you with this, as I posted this on {{u|Zesty Cactus}}'s talk page, but I didn't get a reply?<br />
<br />
For this [[User:Reshi643/List of Pokémon Pocket Monsters chapters|list]], I have two questions:<br>1) For the Volume 10 chapters, the (Japanese:) and the infobox don't match, is there a reason for it?<br>2) For Volume 14, is it alright to leave the English title column to match with the rest? — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:05, 6 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:# It looks like the infobox one is simply transliterated (romanised), while the article one is translated. The infobox parameter's poorly named ("title_ro" instead of "title_trans" or similar), but I'd rather have the translation there than the romanisation. The translation lets people that don't read Japanese see how the title was changed when the chapter was translated into English.<br />
:# Definitely.<br />
<span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:28, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, I moved the list to the mainspace, also, sorry about the timestamp being August 6, as I copy and paste the message, and didn't resign the message. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 22:34, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One-time appearance of a Pokémon ==<br />
<br />
What is the ruling for anime Pokémon not belonging to anyone who appeared in one episode (including ones who are nicknamed). If they receive an article, does staff need to approve of it first, because I created the Osharina article off-site since she caused the rivalry between Ash and Cadbury, which was the main focus of the episode. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 05:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You'd be better off talking to a staff member who watches the anime, but based on what you've told me, I do not think it qualifies based on the notability requirements. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Glad I didn't create it. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 01:30, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== IP range calculator ==<br />
<br />
I had passed this onto G50 and felt that I should also pass it onto you: [https://toolserver.org/~chm/blockcalc.php IP range calculator] I use this on Wookieepedia to calculate range blocks, and looking over the block log, the blocked IP will need to be range-blocked. That said, I had dropped the two IPs into the calculator and calculated a range: Range 216.154.88.0/21 (up to 2048 users would be blocked) Looking it up, it may be a proxy server, as I had dealt with spambots from that hostname before. Thus, blocking the aforementioned range should do the trick. Good luck! [[User:Trak Nar|Trak Nar]] ([[User talk:Trak Nar|talk]]) 05:20, 18 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Since the IP traces to residential Canada, which is one of our main audiences, we won't be blocking an IP range because it's far too likely to hit legitimate users. Not to mention the fact that this user clearly knows how to change his/her IP, I'm confident that it wouldn't stop the target person for long. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis: LANDpedia ==<br />
<br />
Hi, sorry to come bothering you but you seemed the most appropriate person for this matter, I ask for apologies if I am wrong. I just wanted to note that it seems LANDpedia no longer exists at all, [http://pokeland.net/ Poké Land] seems to be up, but LAND gazette doesn't seem to be updated since the 17th of April of 2012, LANDpedia doesn't seem to exist as a website at all (the page can not be found, suggesting to be redirected back to Poké Land), and LAND community seems to be the only one up but I couldn't confirm if it's still being update. Since the website seems to be discontinued, is it a good policy to keep the links in the main page and other pages under the Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis even though there is nowhere for the users to go to? Just trying to land a hand and help, have a nice day ^^ ----[[User:EtherealAether|<span style="color:#1E90FF;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">EtherealAether</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:EtherealAether|<span style="color:red;font-weight:bold;">talk</span>]])''</small> 14:42, 21 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm aware it's down. It needs a lot of discussion among senior staff, both here and on the other EP wikis, before we remove their links, and there are a lot of more important things that we're focusing on at the moment. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question about userspace edits ==<br />
<br />
I read on the FAQ you can only make 3 userspace edits a day. Can you give me an example of what they mean by 3 edits?<br />
Yes I'm a noob [[User:Raichu8575|Raichu8575]] ([[User talk:Raichu8575|talk]]) 13:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)Raichu8575<br />
:Every time you click the save page button is one edit. If you do that on a page that starts with "User:", that is one userspace edit. So you can only do that three times in one day, then you have to wait for the next day. You also need to make edits to pages that don't have a prefix (i.e. the actual articles) to be allowed to make that many userspace edits in one day. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Breeding table ==<br />
<br />
From the {{m|Natural Gift}}'s breeding table, why is the Gen IV list under the Gen V header? — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:If I'm not mistaken, those are BW and B2W2 lists, not Gen IV lists. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::You're right, I thought with the Gen IV having nothing in it, that there was something wrong with it. Sorry about that. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 05:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "Last episode in X series" trivia ==<br />
<br />
I'm sorry to bother you, but I see that you're the only staff member currently making edits. Viv and I are having a [[User talk:Viv#"Last episode of X series" trivia|disagreement]] over this piece of trivia in the articles [[EP274]], [[AG192]], [[DP191]] and [[BW142]]. It's absolutely unnecessary because the first line of the article already states that each of these is the last episode in their respective series, but Viv insists that it cannot be removed because... well, I can't fathom his reasoning. He seems to think that because the trivia have been on the articles a long time, they need an admin's approval to be removed, and in the interest of not edit warring, I'm coming to you to resolve this because he won't listen to me. Thanks. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:11, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm also really sorry for bothering you for such a small matter but I think that, the trivia should remain there as it's from the starting and after the [[BW142]] trivia only, all the trivia have been removed, I strictly think this should be there as always. This should not be undone by Pumpkinking for the sake of doing it, further more for removing such a trivia he should have asked someone. I would agree whatever your decision would be. <small> Of course this is not a court. </small>--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:21, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thank You for even listening to me!--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:16, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not removing it "for the sake of doing it". I'm removing it because it is against our policy on trivia for such a redundant thing to exist. You still haven't given any legitimate reason for it to remain. ("It's always been there so it should stay" is apathy, not a reason.) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:26, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::We don't have an official policy on trivia. At least... not yet. The trivia point wasn't really notable as the first paragraph of the article already states the exact same thing. If something can be seen on the article itself, it isn't notable.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 08:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Wait baby, cool it down folks We should not be fighting for one line Trivia. What's the big deal if viewers will see that one line trivia of '''This is the last episode of this this series'''. If you are fighting for this then what about the Trivia's like '''This is the last episode of 2000's''' .I'm saying these trivia should remain there I guess we both have given enough of reasoning. Now, let Werdnae decide on this. <br />
Pumpkinking it's my humble request to you now neither you nor should I post anything about this topic. If it's clear you can reply YES/NO.<br />
<br />
Post Script-------- Mr. Werdnae I'm really sorry for using your page as an 'EDIT WAR RESOLVING PAGE' and I thing Pumpkinking would also be sorry--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:40, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Trivia points should be pieces of info that are worth noting, but don't fit elsewhere in the article. These fail that requirement because it does fit elsewhere in the article - it's already in the intro, making the trivia redundant and unnecessary. As a result, I agree with the removal of the 'end of series' trivia points. As for the 'last episode of &lt;year>' points, I don't think they're notable at all. It's just not that important. If there were breaks at the end of each year, or each year started a new (sub-series) plot arc or something, then maybe. But as it is, the actual date that they aired is somewhat incidental.<br />
<br />
:As a side note, if you're going to ask me a question on my talk page, please continue the other parts of the conversation where you started them, so that you give me enough time to consider both sides of the argument, make a decision and then explain it, without getting an edit conflict and having to start again. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you, Werdnae. As a side note, Force Fire, while I am aware that we don't have an official written-in-stone policy about trivia, it would be fallacious to ignore the de facto consensus against redundancy that people, including many admins, have been cracking down on, especially lately. That's what I was referring to by "policy": the unwritten rules that are enforced just as much as the written ones. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PokéInfobox. ==<br />
<br />
I've noticed there is a small error there (that is, it says "Gen. I-IV" even if Pokémon didn't originate from Generation 1), also there shouldn't be tooltip for New Dex No. if Pokémon's Johto Dex No. is 101 or smaller, since up {{p|Yanma|to that}} they're the same. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 07:33, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks for mentioning those. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Red and Blue art? ==<br />
<br />
Don't mean to bother you or anything, but all original Pokémon have their infobox images as their Red and Blue art and its not September 30th. Glitch?--[[User:Weavilewarrior|Weavile Warrior]] ([[User talk:Weavilewarrior|talk]]) 21:57, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:See [[Talk:Meowth (Pokémon)#Art]]. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 22:02, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I find it silly that users should have to hunt down a minuscule talk page for an answer to a simple question. I think it's an issue that the notices on the talk pages do not mention this date as one of the dates for the artwork switching. Confusion will only continue unless it's addressed somewhere. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]]''''' 22:28, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::If anyone's interested in mainspacing it, I made [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Template:TalkArtworkNotice|a template]] we can put on the top of these pages so we can update them all simultaneously when something like this happens. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 50.Grind ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I have written two articles on Wikipedia - [[wikipedia:50.Grind|50.Grind]] and their song [[wikipedia:Gotta Catch 'Em All|Gotta Catch 'Em All]]. Would they be notable enough for inclusion here, and if so, would I be able to just copy my articles over here?--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 21:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The former I would say no. We can just link to the Wikipedia article where it matters. The latter could get an article, but it would need more than what's on that wikipedia article before it'd be considered a worthwhile page. Check the [[Bulbapedia:Project_Music#Song_articles|Project Music]] page for what's expected. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Underleveled Pokémon ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Werdnae. I wanted to discuss a potential change with you on how Underleveled Pokémon are presented on the [[Level]] article. At present, the [[Level#Underleveled Pokémon|current section]] is a few short paragraphs that only mention a few examples of Pokémon in the wild and in battles with Trainers that are not yet to the proper level to evolve. I was wondering if you would be alright if a standalone article could be created about the Underleveled Pokémon, along with [[User:Super goku/Sandbox/Underleveled Table|a table for a list]] of all the instances where it has occurred in trainer battles at the least. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 6 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:My initial thought was that it might be too common to be worth noting, but I don't have the time to look into it properly it while I'm focusing on templates for XY. I don't want to make a decision on it yet because of that. If another staff member wants to jump in and make that decision, I'll trust their judgement. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I will admit that there are quite a few Pokémon per generation listed, I feel that it is somewhat similar in content to the [[Game move errors]] article, though I understand that being close to XY could be a problem timewise. Would it be alright if I were to ask Kogoro for their opinion in this matter? --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 06:32, 10 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plasma Blast ==<br />
I have attempted to correct a simple factual inaccuracy on {{TCG|Plasma Blast|this page}} twice, however [[user talk:Maverick Nate|Maverick Nate]] has reverted it both times with little explanation. I attempted to resolve this issue on his talk page over two weeks ago, but he did not respond and simply reverted my change again immediately (with a very slight change in the wording that doesn't really clarify how it's factually correct). I would appreciate it if you could step in and encourage him to either more thoroughly explain the reasoning behind the reverts or to stop making the reverts. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 07:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I looked over the issue, and I think I understand what Nate is trying to say. Because the G Scope and G Booster provide Genesect with an extra move, they're essentially like TMs. TMs wouldn't work in the TCG like they do in the games, so I think what he's saying is that they're the next best thing to TMs that the TCG is going to get. They're the first item cards that provide a Pokémon with an extra attack. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 08:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::That line of thinking seems like pure speculation, though. It's certainly not a fact that G Booster and G Scope are meant to represent a new form of TMs, especially given that they only work with a single Pokemon. Although this is also speculation, I believe they were meant to represent the same concept as Genesect's signature hold items - which seems logical to me, given that tools represent hold items. However, regardless of whether or not that particular thought is true, the statement "Because Technical Machines in the Pokémon games now have unlimited uses, attacks are now present on Pokémon Tool cards" is in no way a concrete fact. It is true that there are no TMs in the set and there are two (special, rare, out of the ordinary) tool cards with attacks on them, but that doesn't mean that they're replacing, or meant to replace, TMs at all. To say that those two cards are setting some kind of precedent for how something like TMs will be handled going forward is assuming a bit much, in my opinion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 14:27, 10 September 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Werdnae/Archive_4&diff=1964174User talk:Werdnae/Archive 42013-09-08T07:38:49Z<p>Viskiv: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Werdnae/Nav}}<br />
{| cellspacing="3" cellpadding="2" width="100%" style="border: #000 3px solid; {{roundy|20px}}"<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| cellspacing="4" cellpadding="5" width="100%" style="background: #FFFFFF; border: #{{black color}} 3px solid; {{roundy|20px}}"<br />
|-<br />
|{{User:Werdnae/Archive|ndex=330|HP=364|type=Ground|type2=Dragon}}<br />
|- align="center"<br />
|<big>'''''New messages to the bottom please. If you post here I will reply here, If I post a comment on another page I will likely be watching it, so please keep the discussion there. Otherwise it gets too hard to follow the conversation.<br/>Please leave any talk page maintenance, including the removal of rule-breaking comments, to a {{Bp|staff|staff member}}.'''''</big><br />
|-<br />
| <!--PLEASE DO NOT CLOSE THE TABLE. IT IS SUPPOSED TO COVER THE PAGE LIKE IT IS-->|<br />
<br />
== Typebattle template title "Resist" is mathematically inaccurate with current values. ==<br />
<br />
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Template:Typebattle<br />
<br />
Saying resist is mathematically incorrect if you keep the numbers as multiplication values.<br />
<br />
Its valid for the 1/2x part since when you resist half the damage you take the other half.<br />
<br />
However you are not resisting 2x the damage. That would be the same as resisting 200% of the attack. Resisting 100% or more would result in taking no damage at all. Resisting 0% would mean that you are resisting no damage and therefore taking 100% of the initial amount.<br />
<br />
If you want to stick with the values being multipliers to the original attack i would recommend you to use another word like multiplyer, power or effectiveness.<br />
<br />
The protected source is here : http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Typebattle&action=edit<br />
<br />
[[User:DavidGuld|DavidGuld]] 15:01, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:You're right, resist is wrong there. I changed it to power so it matched the other half of the template. Thanks for pointing it out. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:06, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== If you're not busy ==<br />
<br />
Is it okay to use the HP bar on my talk page? [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 22:04, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Sure. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:55, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I'm going to create one on my own page. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 23:05, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Here ==<br />
<br />
[[Team Aqua|Here]] and [[James|here]]. One says Pokémon Yellow, while another says In Ruby or In Sapphire, etc. Which would be the most correct?--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 12:46, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thing is, James has only appeared in Pokémon Yellow, where as Team Aqua has appeared in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald. So in this case, it's fine the way it is.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#424B50">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#848A8D">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#E3CED0">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EDDFE0">ire</span>]] 12:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::No, I meant as a general thing. Not specifically referring to these articles.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 12:56, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Also [[A.J.|here]], there 3 examples.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 13:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::As I said when you last brought it up: "I'd say they don't all need to be the same. It depends more on the layout and phrasing of the sections." <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:57, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::I know what you said. That's why I ask how exactly it depends and I thought I should give you some examples.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 21:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Would you mind if we leave this until after B2W2? I'm kinda busy with that and non-Bulba stuff just at the moment, so I don't really have time to look into everything properly and therefore give a quality answer. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:03, 14 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
Sure, why not. Just tell me when to remind you of it.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 11:42, 14 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== possible multiple accounts ==<br />
<br />
{{u|DerangedChillen}} and {{u|DementedChillen}} look like they could be the same user. [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 09:41, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Yep, you're right. Thanks for letting me know. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 10:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::You're Welcome. [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 10:05, 19 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== BW parameter ==<br />
<br />
I changed it to the [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Ice_Burn_%28move%29&curid=117721&diff=1708520&oldid=1708519 GenV parameter] because when I previewed it with the BW one, it gave me a tiny dot for no reason. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 22:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Clear your cache. The parameter was just added to the template, looks like you were still getting a cached version. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Entries ==<br />
<br />
You probably can't translate them, but maybe you can write them? It took me few minutes just to get characters of location's Japanese name >_> ...so these will take much longer, especially as there is [http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg507/scaled.php?server=507&filename=bpkmnwh21014177.png&res=landing three] - Sewaddle, Mareep and Flaaffy. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 07:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Not a clue, sorry. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:30, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I do not ask to translate them, just to write them down to articles, as it is too much of pain for me. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 07:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah. I don't know how to type them either. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:53, 26 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WarlordInfoBox Template ==<br />
<br />
With Oichi and Nobunga being brother and sister in the Pokémon Conquest game, would it be possible to have relatives added to the template? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 05:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I was unsure whether to add that or leave it for the body. I've added it to the template, but it'll only show up if the "Relatives" parameter is set. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
okay [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 05:42, 18 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Conquest moves ==<br />
<br />
Can Conquest be added to (not sure of the name) template to be able to add a move description to the Pokémon pages? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 04:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:[[Template:Movedescentry]]? If so, done. Set the first parameter to "Conquest". <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:46, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Is it also possible for you to make it so I can add Conquest next to BW? A lot of the moves have the same description as the BW ones. --[[User:Funktastic~!|It&#39;s Funktastic~!]] ([[User talk:Funktastic~!|talk]]) 05:10, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::BWConquest. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I have found out that that different Pokémon of the same species can have different moves (Zebstrika is all I know so far) when they are linked. Can ConquestMove be changed to ConquestMove1 and ConquestMove2 so the 2nd move can be added? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 02:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Looking at the template, It's possible to add multiple moves to the cell using the one parameter, so just do that for now. If it's very common, we may want to change the layout, so if you notice any more can you let me know? Thanks. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Okay [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 03:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dispute ==<br />
<br />
Jo The Marten And I Are Having An Argument. Are People Allowed To Put Pokemon Templates On Mystery Dungeon Pages? [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 02:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Pokemon templates should only be used like that where there is something special about the Pokemon (Abnormal ability, abnormal moveset, etc.). There is absolutely nothing different between that Drowzee and any other wild level 12 Drowzee. It is therefore unnecessary to provide that extra information. The entry in the list is enough. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:23, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In That Case, What Is The Point Of The Templates On [[Amp Plains tribes]], The Pokemon On The Templates There Are No Different Then Any Other Of Their Species And Level. [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 04:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Because that's not a location article. It doesn't have a list. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:00, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It Shouldn't Matter That It's A Location Page. The Point Of Pages Like That Are To Make It Easy For Players To Gather Information From. [[User:Badjb10|Badjb10]] ([[User talk:Badjb10|talk]]) 05:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:.[[Drowzee (Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky)]] That page is about Drowzee. As such, it has the full description, including the template. [[Mt. Bristle]] is about the location, and as such has to provide information on many Pokemon. Thus the information given on each is less so that the page is not bogged down with information which is, quite frankly, unnecessary. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Well, It Was A Common Mistake That I Made, Especially Since There Was No Link To [[Drowzee (Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky)]] On [[Mt. Bristle]]. {{unsigned|Badjb10}}<br />
<br />
== Impossible ==<br />
<br />
This user has behaved in an intimidating and harassing way. Please perform the appropriate action for him/her.--[[User:Muk-a-matic|Muk-a-matic-Maketh the Muk go round...]] ([[User talk:Muk-a-matic|talk]]) 23:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:This has been handled. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re:Templates ==<br />
<br />
no problem, i'll stop.[[User:Purrloin!|Purrloin]][[User talk:Purrloin!|!]] [[Purrloin|Meow!!!]] 22:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Template:User Want==<br />
Hey, I see you were the last one to edit the {{template|User Want}} template. Since that page is protected, could you please add B2W2 to the code? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 11:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Done. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
I don't know if you noticed it... there's a problem with the B2 part: there's not enought contrast between the letters and the background. I could hardly see the letters when I tested it. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry, I missed adding it to one part. is that better? <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
What have you done? I haven't noticed any change. The contrast is the same. Just change the background to black, please. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Ah, I missed another one. Sorry about that, it's fixed properly now. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
It's fixed now ty very much! [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:19, 1 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Protection==<br />
Hey, could you please protect this usertag: <nowiki>{{User:TheOriginalOne/User un}}</nowiki>? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I won't, simply beacuse it's in your userspace, so you need to take care of it. You can't if it gets protected. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
Now, could you please protect <nowiki>{{Template|Unown}}</nowiki>? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:You need to get permission from an admin to create new templates. In this case, the template takes almost as long to type as the code it replaces, so it is not worth having as a template. I should note that a template at that exact name with that exact function was deleted in december 2010 for precisely that reason. Pay attention to the warnings that are displayed when you are editing a page - the wiki should have told you that it had been deleted before and given the deletion log to explain why it was deleted. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:40, 3 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
Yeah, I know that, I received the strike right after this new message (I tought that the permission rule was just for the usertags). They also told me that there was another one with precisely that function, {{template|uwr}}. About that, since that template is protected, could you please make non-capital letters valid for it?<br />
:About the warning... the delete reason was not enought clear for me; I didn't understand why. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:22, 4 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Regarding a Recently Created Page ==<br />
<br />
Hey. You seem to be the only staff member on at the moment, so I wanted to bring this to your attention. I'm not sure how to move it into {{u|Alexsummer}}'s userspace myself, and I don't want to mess anything up. Thanks! [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 03:04, 15 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Moved. You just move the page, select "User" from the namespace dropdown and put their username at the start followed by a slash. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:28, 15 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Youtubevid==<br />
Hi, this problem has been bothering me since the very beggining of it... you know, that one with the youtubevid template, because it doesn't work since some months ago (yeah, when I try to preview with the old code, or even see an old version, the browser gives me an error). Now, I was wondering, do you know when it's going to be fixed, or have you even discovered what's the problem? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:44, 20 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:A recent Mediawiki upgrade broke the addon. We're looking into a replacement. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
At least it's going to be recovered... but do you have any info about when is it going to happen? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 16:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==AG132 Trainer's Choice Error==<br />
1. It is ''not'' an assumption. I have seen every single episode with a Trainer's Choice, and every single one that asked "Which would be most effective against..?" or "Which Pokémon has the advantage?", it ''always'' meant types. '''Always.'''<br />
2. If it's "still an error," why, pray tell, did you delete it?<br />
3. You should tell that to Dennou Zenshi. "Didn't I just remove it?" he/she says, as if he/she is infallible.<br />
4. I go to Talk pages to discuss something questionable. This is not questionable. It's quite obvious that Kirlia is being mistaken for a Grass-type. You wanna talk about assumption? Ask Dennou why he/she thinks that this TC could ''possibly'' be about Arcanine's ''stats'' and ''learnset''. Really?! That is laughably baseless. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 11:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It's not obvious at all that they mistook Kirlia for a Grass-type, since [[M06]] and [[AG109]] made it clear that Kirlia is a Psychic-type. On the other hand, it ''is'' obvious that the "legendary" Arcanine is better than Kirlia, who is weaker than many unevolved Pokémon. We can't assume that they made a mistake when there's a legitimate reason for their answer.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#AB0909">電</font><font color="#063A73">禅</font>]]<small>[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#fff" face="Tahoma"><span style="text-shadow:#000 0.2em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Den Zen</span></font>]]</small>''' 12:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::The anime is known to make errors in areas in which it has been correct before. Electric affects Ground, then it doesn't, then it does on Rhydon's horn, then it doesn't, then it does in Rhydon's mouth, then it doesn't, etc. If you still honestly believe that this TC subtly refers to stats, unlike every other TC of its kind, then go ahead and edit [[Trainer's Choice]]'s sections to pick ''your'' correct choice. There are many errors that end up being ties, with no Pokémon having an advantage over the stated one. Go ahead and compare every Pokémon's stats to every stated Pokémon's stats and see which is the "correct" one in every single erroneous TC. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 15:30, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Go ahead and look at Ag053's error. Combusken is stated as having an advantage over Kirlia. Now why would the writers do that, hm? Combusken is a mid-stage Pokémon like Kirlia and is roughly as strong, stat-wise. Maybe... ''they think Kirlia's a Grass-type?!'' --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]])<br />
:::My apologies, I should have only removed half of the point. Unless we can actually confirm from someone at 4kids that Kirlia was mistaken for a grass type, that part is an assumption as should not go on the page. It should simply state that the answer is incorrect based on types. Nothing else. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:41, 25 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I still think that it's obvious, but fair enough. We include the error, exclude the assumption. --[[User:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|IWannaBeTheVeryBest]] ([[User talk:IWannaBeTheVeryBest|talk]]) 01:10, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::While previous advantage based Trainer's Choice questions were about type advantages, nothing specifically demands that the AG132 question followed suit. You're making the assumption, based only on the questions of previous episodes, that this question must be in error. If it's not concrete in either direction, we should not be noting something that may or may not be true. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#DA70D6;">Kogoro</span>''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#FFB6C1;">Talk to me</span>''']] - 02:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ransei facility template. ==<br />
<br />
I've been putting together [[User:Chosen/RanseiFacility|a template for the kingdoms of Ransei]] that would list the Pokémon that appear in their various facilities. I almost have it completed, but there is a strange occurence that's causing the last check mark to appear elevated in a sort of way. Since you worked on the templates I based mine on, I was wondering if you had a solution? Thanks in advance. – [[User:Chosen|<span style="color:#F85888">Chosen</span>]] <span style="color:#6890F0">of</span> [[User talk:Chosen|<span style="color:#F8D030">Mana</span>]] 21:57, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:The line break after the final check mark is included in the cell. You need to put the noinclude (or in this case the opening comment tag) on the same line as the last check mark, then if you want line breaks they go inside that. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:21, 27 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== FRLG sprites ==<br />
<br />
Just saying that there are 3 extra, one for each [[:a:File:Spr 3f Venusaur credits.png|final]] [[:a:File:Spr 3f Charizard credits.png|form]] [[:a:File:Spr 3f Blastoise credits.png|starter]] (credits-exclusive). You might wanna include it in the sprite template (later or now, that's your choice), if you're still working on it. And yes, the 2nd frame is supposed to be blink-and-you'll-miss-it. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 15:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Help meh? ==<br />
<br />
Well, this is a bummer. I can't seem to edit my userpage, let alone start one. I think I made like 4-5 contrbutions to the wiki. What now?<br />
★☆[[User:Togetic45|<span style="color:red;">'''Toge'''</span>]][[User talk:Togetic45|<span style="color:grey;">'''tic'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Togetic45|<span style="color:blue;">'''45'''</span>]]☆★<br />
:Keep editing the mainspace, you'll get to soon. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== If bumps are prohibited... ==<br />
<br />
...then how are abandoned discussions to be resolved? ''No one'' came to an agreement on the talk page. For over a month. Reverting edits to suppress the issue shouldn't even be allowed. <font face="Verdana">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">BNK</span>]]</font><sup>[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|Talk]]</sup> 05:36, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I have asked a few other staff members who weren't involved in the discussion to take a look at it and decide. And in future, the best thing to do is to either try and add something to the discussion or to ask a staff member directly. 'bumping' is generally an inefficient way of getting attention for something. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:08, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I asked Dennou Zenshi but… ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage is causing Special:Disambiguations to not work, because none of those templates are linked. Can you fix it? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I made a null edit to the mediawiki page, it should start working soon as the server cache clears. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::It's not working… According to the Special:Disambiguations page, they need to be '''linked'''. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:23, 10 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Added links. Also remeoved two that were deleted in 2008. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:04, 10 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archives Lockdown ==<br />
<br />
I've got an image I've been trying to upload for the new Pokémon dolls for the [[Décor]] article, but the lockdown is still in effect on the archives, yet I see lots of daily updates by Jr Admins and above. When will the lockdown be rescinded? <sc>'''[[User:Pyrii|<font color="#e8e">♪Pyrii♫</font>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Pyrii|<font color="#747">talk</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pyrii|<font color="#747">contrib</font>]]</sup></sc> 04:21, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:How's fifteen minutes ago sound? Just be aware it may be closed again if the server can't cope with the extra load. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 04:49, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Sounds like music to my ears, thanks, now if only the image would show without me having to edit the page. Oh well, anything to increase my edit count XD <sc>'''[[User:Pyrii|<font color="#e8e">♪Pyrii♫</font>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Pyrii|<font color="#747">talk</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pyrii|<font color="#747">contrib</font>]]</sup></sc> 12:48, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A question about my edit to Template:16TeamBracket ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Werdnae. I made an update to the 16 Team Bracket template a bit ago for a few things. Mainly it was to make the tables be rounded per Bulbapedia style. While it looks good in concept and on most articles; I have seen a few pages where the template gets a bit streched out. Most of the stretching is limited to the [[2009 World Championships]] and the [[2010 World Championships]]. I wanted to know if it was alright or if my edit should be reverted for the moment. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 04:52, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It looks okay to me, but please be careful when editing templates. Especially at the moment when traffic is high due to B2W2, as editing even moderately used templates puts a big strain on the server. I'd prefer that you test it by making a test copy of the template in your userspace with the changes you want to make, before you edit the template. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:16, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Alright then. I think it will be better if I hold off on editing the other related templates. I will make sure to test it in the userspace next time as well. Thank you for checking. :) --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 18:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Translation templates? ==<br />
<br />
Hi, let me ask you the following: are the Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis wikis close enought for [[Bulbapedia:Sandbox#Interwiki translation notice|this template]] to be valid, and so that you could authorize me to create it on the template mainspace? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 19:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Where would it be used? Usually if they've got an article and we don't it's because we've decided that we either don't want the article, or don't want the article yet. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::... and it's very rare for an article to be based on a wikipedia one: you could easily say that it's because you normaly don't want that article (yet), specialy when we're talking about a wiki that's too much general on those matters. So why does {{template|WikipediaBased}} exist, when there are certain wikis from our partnership that sometimes write something notable before Bulbapedia? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 23:13, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::The WikipediaBased template is an overhang from when Bulbapedia was a wee infant with a userbase of a couple of hundred people. We're bigger than that now, and in general that template just shouldn't be used on any new articles.<br />
<br />
:::In regards to other wikis having articles on "notable" stuff before we do, that's because each wiki has its own independent notability and rules system. In particular, we have a "Wait until it airs" rule for the anime and most, if not all, of our partners don't. We're a bigger, more active wiki and so we have higher standards that must be met before we start the articles. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wp template: update to support (and strictly use) HTTPS ==<br />
<br />
[[Template talk:Wp#HTTPS|See this]]. What do you think of the suggestion? I'm not sure if this discussion topic should be kept on your talk page or at the template's talk page, by the way. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 18:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Template ==<br />
<br />
I just noticed that I forgot to add typen= function to the GlitchSpirteBox template. It will just display a Unknown color background if there is no type2=. I [[User:Rsrdaman/sandbox|tried]] to get it to work but no no avail. Any tips?--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 19:42, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Inside parameters you ''can't'' use <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki>. It must be a pipe, because the way that template hides the pipe from parser fuctions such as switches means it also hides them from templates and parameters. <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki> should only be used to replace the pipes in table coding. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:57, 14 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Ahh, ok... I finally got it to work now. Thanks again. --[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 09:03, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Random questions ==<br />
<br />
# Are we allowed to edit other user's pages to remove a [[Special:WantedTemplates|nonexisting template]] or a [[Special:WantedPages|non-existing page]]?<br />
## If not, are we allowed to alert the user?<br />
# Would it be a good idea to implement the #ifexist: function into {{template|Red link}}?<br />
Thank you for your time. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:# Yes, provided that's all you do.<br />
:#I don't think that's a good idea. Firstly because the template is extremely high use and any edit is likely to crash the wiki. Second, because it's okay for pages we actually want to be on the wanted pages list, so anything that's definitely going to get a page shouldn't use the template. Thirdly because ifexists are expensive functions and adding that to the template would significantly increase the load that each use of the template puts on the server. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:43, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::[[Zinzolin]] and {{ga|Rosa}} link to Template:Textcolor. Should it exist, or is something wrong? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 18:47, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::It's the Pokemon templates. If only some of the moves are known or a Pokemon only knows 1-3 moves, the parameters for the remaining moves must be removed, not just blanked. If they're blank, the template sees that they're there, and so doesn't use the defaults. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:56, 15 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Archives stuff ==<br />
<br />
As I'm working on the Glitchdex, a common problem I come across in incorrectly named images, or duplicates. Currently there are a lot of them and what I've been doing (just putting up <nowiki> {{Delete}} or {{move}} templates</nowiki>) is taking a lot of time and just making the current admins workload more. I really hate to {{tt|ask|as I know asking for power anywhere is a no-no}}, but as I read on the [http://archives.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Staff#Becoming_an_administrator Archives Staff] page, it said high-ups can bestow temporary admin power. So is there any way I can get that to move/delete all of these files?--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 00:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Not currently. Due to the recent server move and game releases the Archives are actually a little unstable for the time being. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've moved the images for you Rsrdaman. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]]''''' 02:46, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Navigation templates ==<br />
<br />
In many navigation templates, I see the " • ", but in others I see " | ". Should I change them to one way or another, or just let it be? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 01:58, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Just let it be. Different templates call for different things. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:32, 17 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Tournament infobox ==<br />
<br />
How does [[User:Abcboy/sandbox/TournamentInfobox|this]] look? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 22:21, 23 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Firsly, it needs to be roundy to match our style. I know you've based it on the game screen, but it still should be roundy because otherwise it looks out of place. Also because following the game design that strictly means that if it gets redesigned in future games, the template looks bad. They're 'inspired' by the game design, rather than emulating it.<br />
<br />
:Secondly, the align tags need to be replaced. Content alignment (i.e. text and images) can be done with the "text-align" style (i.e. <code>style="text-align:left/right/center;"</code>), while table alignment can be done with the float style for left or right (i.e. <code>style="float:left/right;"</code>) or the margin style for centering (i.e. <code>style="margin:auto;"</code>). This is important because the align tags are deprecated and only currently working on a backwards-compatability setup which could stop working at any time.<br />
<br />
:Other than those two minor things, nice work on the template. It's a nice code setup. Just don't be afraid to mess around with the styles from the game. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:00, 23 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::How does it look now? I just wrapped that splash of green around the top, removed several of the old dividers leaving only one, and made it roundier! It doesn't really conform to the Bulbapedia style, but I think it looks pretty good. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:44, 24 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Much better. The code's good and the design's good. I'm going to need to discuss it with a few other staff and get back to you just for the content, because I don't know that much about the PWT. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:14, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::[[User:Abcboy/sandbox/NewBerry|This]] is something I want to do to the Berry pages, along with moving the growth template to the growth section. Doing this would extremely reduce the size of the infobox. I need a little bit of help on the Generation IV one though... --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:43, 29 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Language support templates ==<br />
<br />
I was looking at Wikipedia and they have some nice language support templates such as {{wp|Template:Nihongo}}, {{wp|Template:Korean}} and {{wp|Template:Zh}}. The Japanese one is particularly useful as it renders kanji properly. I was thinking on adding them to Bulbapedia but would like to know the staff's opinion on them. If they are accepted, I would ask Wikipedia for permission of usage of the templates here (please note that I do not have an account there) and try them out in my sandbox here first. What do you think? [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 13:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:If I'm not mistaken, we already use the same code that those templates use to display the characters. It's an html attribute, <code>lang="ja"</code> ("ja" is replaced with "ko" or "zh" for the latter two templates). The reason that ours may appear distorted is that, depending on where they are used, the characters are subsequently bolded and/or reduced in size. I have noticed that it becomes very difficult to read in templates where both are done. In short, I don't think we need the template as we (should) already use the relevant code that it contains. If there's somewhere the language code isn't used, it most certainly should be, and you're welcome to add it: <code><nowiki><span lang="ja">Kanji goes here</span></nowiki></code> <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, correction, it appears that we're certainly not using that code everywhere. I know for certain that some templates do. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:36, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, I don't like them solely for the proper rendering of kanji. It's also because the templates help to standardize the way the Japanese/Korean/Chinese names should appear on articles. They also have the parameters <code>lead=yes</code> and <code>lead=no</code>, which allows the reader to know which written non-English language is he/she reading, with that element being present in the first instance of the language ''only''. It also helps in situations when there's no English equivalent to the Japanese/Korean/Chinese name, allowing the text to appear differently ordered to accomodate the situation. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 19:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm still not sure it's necessary. The usage of Japanese text is pretty much standardised already, with an identification. (i.e. the opening lines of the articles.) I can see where you're coming from, I just don't know if we need it, when things are hardcoded in a relatively (I would hope) similar manner. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Well, I understand your point of view but please reconsider. It may be awkward at first but these specific templates help once we get used to them. At least, that's how I feel about them. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 14:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Infobox game update ==<br />
<br />
I've tweaked and added some parameters to it as per feedback on the template's talk page as well as from my own ideas. Check the modified template [[User:SatoMew2/GameInfoboxTweaks|here]] and some tests with it [[User talk:SatoMew2/GameInfoboxTweaks|here]]. Basically, I did the following:<br />
* Changed ''info'' in '''Basic info''' to ''information'' to be more professional and encyclopedic;<br />
* Changed OFLC to ACB in the '''Ratings''' since the ratings were of the ACB, which was previously called OFLC, and also due to there being confusion over the independent OFLC from New Zealand. Furthermore, the OFLC from New Zealand is irrelevant as the Pokémon games released there are under control of Nintendo of Australia, the subsidiary of Nintendo for both Australia and New Zealand. Thus, the ratings for the games in these two countries are as per the ACB;<br />
* Added the parameter for the OSK rating, which is the German rating system and is applicable to the Pokémon games;<br />
* Added parameters to include the translations of Japanese names under the Japanese name, in smaller text (same size as Japanese text);<br />
* Added other essential parameters about the games;<br />
* Renamed various parameters, rendering the previous names obsolete and current usage of the template broken;<br />
* Added "N/A" as fallback text for everything, for the sake of simplicity, consistency and to avoid showing the parameters themselves if there is a need to fallback to them.<br />
Either way, wherever the template is used, those applications of it have to be updated. Still, what do you think? I believe it makes the template more accurate and complete now. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 20:52, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Looks good to me. I don't suppose you'd be able to replace the align tags as described a couple of sections up? <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've replaced the <code>align</code> tags as you suggested, since they are deprecated. I have also changed the template's default colors to match Bulbapedia (damn, that black and white sure were not that good-looking) and streamlined the code, with suggestions and help from Abcboy ([[User talk:SatoMew2#Your game infobox|see here]]).<br />
:::Thanks, nice work. I pulled out a few of them that were carried over redundant tags from the old template (and a few due to minor changes in what the tags cover) and then put it into use. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I'm glad you liked it. But please protect the template page! I'm sure it was an oversight. [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 20:44, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sorry for the bother ==<br />
<br />
Who do we talk to these days about checking new user IP's? Since I haven't been around much lately, I'm not sure which admin usually does what now. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 15:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Anyone at {{bp|Staff|Admin level}} or above can check IPs. There's not really one designated person who does it. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 16:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Hmm. Okay. I noticed a pattern in a lot of new usernames from the past few days, and as I'm going down the list, I've found about 70 from the past 8 days... didn't realize it went on this far. Names like AldocrjkpohdhrArvidson, DelmarlkcbffxubiDess, AdriansseedyjwjnRosander, YasukokehplwkzlmCurren, etc. It might not be worth trying to go through and block all of the names if there end up being a couple hundred of them, but I felt it needed to be brought up if it wasn't already known. It looks like most of them are getting ignored by people welcoming users, so I'm not the only one who's noticed. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 18:39, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::And now that I'm looking around a lot more, I see that other people have already mentioned it to a couple of you. Whoops. '''[[Team Rocket|<small><span style="color: #550000;">R.A.</span></small>]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Hunter</font></small>]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|<small><font color="#FF2400">Blade</font></small>]]''' 18:45, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Looking at the names, they're almost certainly spambots. Fortunately, most spambots try to create pages or userpages, and so are foiled by our autoconfirm requirements. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:07, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== LevelV template. ==<br />
<br />
Could you do that for other generations? Because movesets liked to change also in other generations. Some, like {{p|Mewtwo}}'s or {{p|Medicham}}'s could use that for Generation III. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 10:31, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I believe they already drafted somewhere, it's just a matter of getting them cleared by everyone and implementing them, and since I haven't had time I haven't pushed the matter. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] ([[User talk:Spriteit|talk]]) 10:48, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
::[[User:Werdnae/Sandbox/Learnlist/levelIV|Here's my initial draft]] from a while back. I haven't had the time to complete it. If I'm remembering correctly, I also came across something that was going to be an issue for that template, but I don't recall exactly what that was. I know there were several possible solutions, and I think Kogoro built another prototype. Long story short, we're working on it, but it has come across a few issues, along with not being a priority. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:35, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::I felt liked doing it. I borrowed your template, copied onto userpage the header from mainspace and modified it, and [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates|this is result]] (well, obviously that "Header." text will be removed). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 14:39, 22 November 2012 (UTC) PS. And.... done, I think. You might want to check the templates if there is something to correct (still not sure if use RGB and Y or RB and Y in Generation I template), though. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 13:02, 23 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Wiki code ==<br />
<br />
You seem to be the correct person to ask...<br />
<br />
On anime pokemon move templates such as this:<br />
<br />
<!--{{anmov/h|poison||Ash Muk {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}}}<br />
{{anmov|normal|Body Slam|EP077|The Fourth Round Rumble}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Poison Gas|EP115|A Tent Situation}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Sludge Bomb|EP270|Can't Beat the Heat!}}<br />
{{anmov/f|poison}}--><br />
* Poison Gas was used in the [[dub]] only. In the original Japanese version, Ash just said Muk's name, ''Betbeton''.<br />
<br />
I tried to to take the note at the bottom and put it into the actual template, using tt|*| next to Poison Gas, in order to make it look neater howevr it comes out like this<br />
<br />
<!--{{anmov/h|poison||Ash Muk {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}.png|Using {{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 3}}|0=Sludge Bomb|1=Body Slam|2=Poison Gas}}}}<br />
{{anmov|normal|Body Slam|EP077|The Fourth Round Rumble}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Poison Gas{{tt|*|Dub only}}|EP115|A Tent Situation}}<br />
{{anmov|poison|Sludge Bomb|EP270|Can't Beat the Heat!}}<br />
{{anmov/f|poison}}--><br />
<br />
<br />
is their anyway the template can be changed so that we can put the tt|*| inside it? [[User:05308|<font color="blue">Diamond</font>]] [[Lanturn (Pokémon)|<font color="yellow">Lanturn</font>]] [[User talk:05308|<font color="red">CodeName: 05308</font>]] 16:26, 3 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Adding a tooltip onto a parameter which autolinks will ''never'' work like that, because it's inside the link. The template needs the notes to be in parameter 4, which is alternate text and so can handle the tooltip template.<br />
<br />
:Also, if a proposed usage of a template is broken, please don't save it as-is. Saving a broken template usage is likely to create other problems. Instead, put it inside comment tags, and people that want to see the problem can remove them and preview. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Magnagate ==<br />
<br />
What do you think of [[User talk:Abcboy/sandbox/MagnagateItemlistEntry|this]]? I can't really think of a way to compress it further. Also, congrats on your promotion. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 03:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks. And I'd suggest adding a column to the template for floors. I'd imagine that, especially in the larger dungeons, the available items might change depending on how far into them you are. I know that's the case for the other MD games. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I've added the needed parameter. Perhaps the template could be used on '''all dungeons''' instead of just Magnagate ones. Also, your page needs a bit of updating and protection. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:10, 10 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::I'd prefer the floor parameter to display all the time. Otherwise it's unclear whether it is on all the floors or we just don't know the floors. The second line of the footer is a bit of a cop-out in that regard - either we know, or we don't. "seems" doesn't fit. Agreed that it would be on all the dungeons. I also think that we'd be better off including Poke in a row of the table, rather than a footnote. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Does [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pokedex-for-ios/id573135437?mt=8 Pokédex for iOS] deserve an article? It's been out for a month in Japan, and was recently released in the US and Europe. No idea about Australia and New Zaeland though. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 05:05, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::As an official app, I would say yes. Also, as you may have noticed, I moved that template. Nice work on it, it's simple but effective. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Because ==<br />
<br />
You've deserved this. A sincere congratulations to you, my fellow Kiwi. If you need a hand with anything, let me know. I've got some spare time these days. (Except for the rest of this week coz I'm going to Wellington. You should totally skip town and come join me. It'll be ''rad''.) &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 10:36, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks trom. Have fun in Wellywood. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Congrats, my friend! ==<br />
<br />
Well, since I can't see a section on here for this, I figured I would be the one to officially start one. Congratulations on the well-deserved and well-earned promotion to EiC. As one of the people on here who knew you way back when you were a Jr. Admin., I can say that I can't think of anyone else who has put as much hard work into the 'pedia, or who I would rather have in the job. You have been a kind and helpful mentor to many people on here (including me), so I just wanted to say thank you for that. Your leadership skills and dedication are what have brought you thus far, and I look forward to seeing how the 'pedia prospers under your guidance. Although I do not get the chance to edit as much as I would like to nowadays (business and responsibilities IRL), know that I have always been, and will always be, your friend. Should you need anything, you have but to ask. --[[User:Jediknightdtv|<span style="color:blue">ジェダイナイト</span>]][[User talk:Jediknightdtv|<span style="color:green">ディーティーブイ</span>]] 19:45, 9 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:54, 11 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Conquest ==<br />
<br />
Could you add more information to the page [[Pokémon Conquest]] and related articles, please. Also, there isn't much information on Pokémon pages about the kingdoms where you can find them and I've seen a few pages conflict with one another. In the [[Sneasel]] page, it says Sneasel can be found in [[Nixtorm]], but in the Nixtorm page, Sneasel isn't mentioned at all. {{unsigned|Plusleminun311312}}<br />
:Bulbapedia is a wiki, information is added by many of our users, not just staff. I don't have the info you're looking for in order to add it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image thing ==<br />
<br />
Hey Werdnae, sorry to bother you but this is bugging me, long story short whenever I try to view or use [[a:File:PMBW01.png]] on an article (such as [[PMBW01]]), it shows a different image that used to be at that name, but was moved. I tried in different browsers, different computers, I tried clearing the cache, it's still messed up. Can you figure out why it's broken for me :( thanks!!! (hope you understand what I mean and I don't look silly XD) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 22:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:It looks like it's okay to me. I'm guesing that it just took a little time until the CDN synced the images. It usually happens quickly, but depending on load may take closer to 24 hours. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small><br />
::That is so weird. Here's how it looks to me: [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/zeldascousin/Untitled-2.jpg] [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 05:02, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::It's the same for me, seems the CDN didn't properly update for all regions. It will be fixed soon. - [[User:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#DA70D6;">Kogoro</span>''']] '''-''' [[User talk:Kogoro|'''<span class="sc" style="color:#FFB6C1;">Talk to me</span>''']] - 05:09, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Ah, a regional thing. IIRC that has happened once or twice before, where updates on one or more servers are delayed relative to the others. Thanks for taking care of it Kogsie. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Okay, cool. Thank you both :) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 02:22, 18 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Just so y'all know, it's fixed for me :D [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 02:55, 22 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== B2W2 autoconfirmed protection ==<br />
<br />
It's been several months since B2W2 came out, and several B2W2 articles ([[Strange House]], [[Relic Passage]], [[Clay Tunnel]], [[Cave of Being]], and [[Pledge Grove]]) are still protected from non-autoconfirmed users. Several B2W2 redirects ([[Banjirou]], [[Heart Cave]], [[Relic Path]], [[Stranger House]], [[Clay Road]], and [[Oath Woods]]) are also still protected from non-autoconfirmed users. Were they forgotten? --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 02:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Looks like it. I'd assumed that all the B2W2 protections were set to expire shortly after release, but looks like a few were set to infinite length by mistake. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==King of Almia page==<br />
<br />
Is there anybody on Project Sidegames who is watching the "King of Almia and the Three Princes" page? There are about three unanswered questions on the talk page. [[User:Aggron989|Aggron989]] ([[User talk:Aggron989|talk]]) 23:35, 18 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Idea ==<br />
<br />
Hey, I was wondering if I could talk to you about adding a relationship section to the prominent characters of the series. --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 04:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Werdnae's away at the moment, but he gave me permission to respond to you in his stead. We feel relationship sections are not needed on character articles, as more than likely it will only lead to problems because of [[Shipping]]. Also, relatives are already mentioned in the infobox on articles. If you'd like to go in-depth about interactions between characters, then your attention is better suited for the shipping articles. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 04:54, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
That wasn't what I meant. What I'm trying to suggest is adding short summaries of some of the characters interactions, and for the shippings we'd just leave a link. It'd probably be easier if I showed you an example, so with your permission can I do it on Iris or Trip? --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 15:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:That kind of information should be worked into the "Character" section, as their interactions with other people are a significant part of their character. It shouldn't need to go overly specific, just their general behaviour towards other people and anything markedly different. Looking at Trip's page, it appears this is already the case: specifically the second and fourth paragraphs of the Character section. Shippings should not be included there unless they are specifically stated in canon. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:04, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
Your kinda misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm referring to interactions that don't have any shippings, like with Iris and Cynthia or Georgia and Burgundy. I'll show you what I mean if you let me try it for Iris. --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 19:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I know what you're meaning. What I'm saying is I don't want a list. The behaviour that is underlying the interactions should be included in the character section without the need to list. Important events should be included in the history section. We have existing places to put that information. We don't need to duplicate it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 17:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
"Sighs" fine, then how about a battle record for the site then? You know, somethings similar to what's on the full battle page? --[[User:Firered16|Firered16]] ([[User talk:Firered16|talk]]) 06:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
==Thankyou==<br />
Thanks for you suggestion Werdane on Crystal's talkpage. I will check the spam folder.[[User:Minor Notes|Minor Notes]] ([[User talk:Minor Notes|talk]]) 23:37, 31 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remember me? ==<br />
<br />
Yes, it is I, your biggest fan, and I'm back. I always knew you would make the job, and good job.<br />
I love this place, and hope to be a help. <br />
<br />
Cam ♣♣ ''[[User:Focus58|<font color="Red">Ƒǿҫὑṩ</font>]] [[User talk:Focus58|<font color="olive">❺❽</font>]]'' ♣♣ 13:22, 2 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Random question ==<br />
<br />
Hi Werdnae :) sorry to bother you with this, but {{u|Umeko}} never writes me back so I thought it was best to come to you. I was wondering if you think [[User:Zesty Cactus/Misty's Song (single)|this article]], which I've worked on in my user space, was worth it for a mainspace article. My explanation is in the user message on the article. I'd appreciate your feedback. (I'm scared to just make the decision myself since I feel I don't have that much authority over Music, since while I do contribute to the project, idk, I feel like it's not my place XD) thanks again :) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 17:38, 18 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Music articles aren't my expertise, but would it be plausible to make it a proper section on the existing page? Neither of them really have that much info, so they might be better together? You've got more experience with those articles, so I'll trust your judgement on it, whatever you decide is better. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:26, 19 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Disambig pages ==<br />
<br />
What is the rule for disambiguation pages? I know that Pokémon receive them. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 05:59, 23 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Pokémon get disabmigs at X (Disambiguation) because there's already a lot of stuff to fit at the top of their page and the species names redirect there. Otherwise, it's just whether one is significantly more important than the other (Also, English names always trump Japanese names) or they're equal importance. If there's numerous things, then it might get a disambig, if there's just a few and the 'main' article is small then a note at the top is easier. There's no real hard and fast rule, it's more of a 'is this working?' and 'what are people more likely to be looking for?'. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:11, 23 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userspace Editing ==<br />
<br />
I know I must seem like quite a newbie posting this, but, I just don't understand this. I swear,I edited my Userspace twice yesterday, and twice today, I'm confused.<br />
<br />
[[User:PokefanR|PokefanR]] ([[User talk:PokefanR|talk]]) 04:37, 24 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We use the wiki's UTC clock to check the days, and there are five edits in one day [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User:PokefanR&action=history here]. Make sure that you're clicking preview and not save when you want to check your page, and edit the whole page at once with the edit tab at the very top, rather than editing each section one at a time - every time you click the save button counts as an edit, rather than every set of changes you want to make. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Percentages ==<br />
<br />
First of all, sorry if I'm talking to the wrong person, as far as the Bulbapedia hierarchy goes you seem pretty high so I thought I'd start here...<br />
Basically I wanted to do a small information design project about pokemon types but discovered that the breakdown the types into percentages adds up to about 146%. Is there incorrect information or am I being a complete dope?<br />
<br />
thanks<br />
<br />
Edit: I was forgetting, cheers man. I'm off to buy a brain.<br />
<br />
[[User:Matthauke|Matthauke]] ([[User talk:Matthauke|talk]]) 22:03, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[[User:Matthauke|Matthauke]] ([[User talk:Matthauke|talk]]) 00:25, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm guessing that you're forgetting about dual-typed Pokémon. Because of them, the "This percent of Pokémon are XXX type" will always add to more than 100, because you're counting some twice. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:24, 5 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Userspace permission ==<br />
<br />
Small non-urgent question. I haven't been able to edit my userspace for years now it would seem, except I have been able to in the past. I don't remember any notification that my rights were removed (and I only edited it once a day, not to mention that was years ago). Can I know why I don't have the right and possibly how to fix that? Is it just a certain number of mainspace edits we need now? I'm mostly concerned about fixing way outdated information such as age. Thank you! <br />
<br />
update: Seems to be resolved now. [[User:Ratikate|Ratikate]] ([[User talk:Ratikate|talk]]) 15:29, 8 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== My small update batch to Infobox game ==<br />
<br />
Why was it reverted and when will it be readded? [[User:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:blue">Sato</span></b>]][[User talk:SatoMew2|<b><span style="color:pink">Mew</span></b>]] 22:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:It was reverted because I screwed up. I should have done a few things that I didn't, and in hindsight didn't read what you were telling me either. The most urgent issue was that the parameters were changed, which is generally a bad idea as it breaks the pages until they can be fixed. There were a few other things that some people weren't sure about, so I'll need to talk to other staff about it some more. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates]] ==<br />
<br />
You{{tt|*|Because you created the one I am basing it upon}} (or someone else... except Snorlax since he seems busy or something) may want to do something with this (because I have no idea what to do with it now, minus fixing any errors and incompatibilities with what we have, that could sneak in) [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'll look into it. Thanks for making the rest of them. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New page ==<br />
<br />
I noticed that there is more information about [[Liberate the Tower!]] than Operation Brighton from [[Pokémon Ranger:Shadows of Almia]] on Bulbapedia. This doesn't seem right to me. Is it important enough that I can create an article about it? It's a kind of obscure subject, so I thought I should ask somebody on Project Sidegames first. [[User:Aggron989|<span style="color:#858585;">''AGG''</span>]][[User talk:Aggron989|<span style="color:#858585;">''RON''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Aggron989|<span style="color:#444444;">''989''</span>]] 19:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ranger Net missions get sections because they aren't part of the core game. Information on Operation Brighton goes in the plot section of the SoA article. The ranger net plot can't go there because it's separate, so it gets a section elsewhere. It might look like there's more info on Liberate the Tower than on Operation Brighton, but that's just because it's separate from the rest. There's actually a lot more info on Operation Brighton (the majority of the final paragraph of the plot section) than Liberate the tower (one sentence in its own section). The rest is just about the Darkrai once it gets to the main series games. The information on Operation Brighton is better suited to the plot section of the game page than its own article. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:47, 5 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Project Picture ==<br />
Hi Werdnae,<br />
Can I please make a project that make good quality images and put them on pages? I noticed that there are a lot of old images or low resolution images that needs to be replaced. Thanks! [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 02:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:That is what the [[a:Main Page|Archives]] are. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:57, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Taking in game pictures==<br />
Hi again Werdnae, how do you take a picture of a bird's eye view of a Pokemon route or a Pokemon city like the ones used on Bulbapedia? Thanks. [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 08:44, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:# Don't delete comments from talk pages.<br />
:# If I knew that, don't you think I'd have already ''done'' that for the ones we don't have?. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How would I go about ==<br />
<br />
changing my username to Launchballer? It is the name I use everywhere else.--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 10:38, 15 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You'll need to talk to {{u|Kogoro}} for that. It's a fairly involved process, and I don't really have the time for that at the moment. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Project Fandom Leader ==<br />
<br />
[[User:$aturn¥oshi|$aturn¥oshi]] has been inactive for three years, yet he is still leader of [[Bulbapedia:Project Fandom|Project Fandom]]. Just wanted to point that out.--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 03:20, 17 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm aware. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== How do you edit templates? ==<br />
<br />
Hello Werdnae, how do you edit existing templates? I noticed that on the Hoenn League template, the battle sprites of Steven and Wallace, are from generation III, not from generation V, and it's best to use the latest sprites. And if you think that I shouldn't be doing this, on the Hoenn gym leaders template, Wallace overworld sprite from generation V used, and he entered the PWT as a champion, not as a gym leader. Also, on the Kanto gym leaders template, Koga's overworld sprite is from generation IV, while he is an elite four member at that time. So please tell me how to edit the Hoenn League template. Thanks! [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 00:40, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Those should not be changed because there ''must'' be consistency within the table. for ''isolated images'' newer is generally (but not always) better, but in tables like that it looks terrible if they don't match. And the reason that you can't edit most templates is that they are protected. This is done because every edit made to them puts a very large load on the server. <br />
<br />
:Please also use the preview button when you're editing so that you don't have to edit the same page so many times in a row. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, on the Kanto gym leader template Koga is the only person to have a generation IV overworld sprite, so should we change every other gym leader sprite in that template to generation IV for consistency within the table? [[User:Agent5514|Agent5514]] ([[User talk:Agent5514|talk]]) 01:30, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::In that case, Gen IV and Gen V sprites are similar enough that it's acceptable. <sup>[[Typhlosion (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup>[[User:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">Jo the Marten</span>]]<sup>[[Flygon (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#C00;">★</span>]]</sup> [[User_Talk:Jo The Marten|<span style="color:#C00;">ಠ_ಠ</span>]][[Cilan (anime)|<span style="color:#90C870;">♥</span>]] 02:20, 20 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== pokemon ==<br />
Sorry........I didn't knew that it is illegally showed on that sites.<br />
One more thing that I am quite new to Bulbapedia ,but I do a lots of mainspace edits I am asking that anybody sees the edits I am making regularly?--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 12:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:First part, it's fine, we just have to be super strict about it. Second part, yes. All edits show up on the [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes list]], and most staff (as well as some non-staff users) regularly watch that, so they'll see when you've made an edit. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 20:44, 25 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== This is bugging me... ==<br />
<br />
It's regarding the "a" in the file links to avoid getting them in the wanted pages. One side wants me to use <nowiki>[[:a:File:</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>[[a:File:</nowiki>, and another side wants me to use <nowiki>[[a:File:</nowiki> instead of <nowiki>[[:a:File:</nowiki>. I am being told two different things that I was supposed to do which is getting nowhere. So which side is actually right? [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 23:28, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Both. <nowiki>[[:a:File: and [[a:File: both work properly, so it's up to the person writing the code for the link. The one to avoid is [[:File:</nowiki> which puts it on the wanted files list. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:25, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Picture for [[Feraligatr]] ==<br />
Hello, Werdnae,<br />
<br />
I have a Pokemon Silver Pokedex printer entry for [[Feraligatr]]. I don't know how to put it in there.<br />
<br />
- Christopher Matias (NutwiisystemRocks) 17:10, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Uploads are done over on the [[a:Main Page|Archives]]. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:03, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Okay, thanks! Christopher Matias (NutwiisystemRocks) 21:28, 26 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==New Project Idea==<br />
I have an idea for a project that will help players build a team, or become successful with their current team. I already have some good strategies with Pokemon such as Espeon and Umbreon. I am messaging you to ask if the scope is broad enough for me to create this project. Thank you for your consideration.<br />
([[User:Littleroot Leader Cam|Littleroot Leader Cam]] ([[User talk:Littleroot Leader Cam|talk]]) 18:25, 5 June 2013 (UTC))<br />
:That's beyond the scope of Bulbapedia. Bulbapedia is an encyclopedia, reporting facts, not strategies. You are, however, welcome to share strategies in the [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f518/ battle centre] over on the forums, which intended for strategy help. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Youtubevid template==<br />
Hi. Today I was thinking about how weird it was to being still facing the problem with this template, after all these months. So, I decided to see if it still didn't work. And guess what: I viewed the source from the last edit done while it was still working - and it worked! I suggest you go check it out for yourself, and then, unless I commited a mistake, change it: it's over, I guess. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 22:22, 9 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd rather not, primarily because the old method has a security risk. I'm close to getting a replacement that isn't, I just need to do some more testing. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:35, 10 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As an addition to that, the old template was responsible for a few loading problems, where it pushed even moderately sized pages over the limit and prevented them from loading. We're still hammering out the details, but the usage is going to have to be much more restricted than it was, and we're going to have to remove any uses deemed unnecessary before the template can be fixed. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:07, 10 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==LANDpedia==<br />
Hi, I want to ask you another question: as you may know, our portuguese-speaking partner has been closed for a long time, even tough the rest of the page looks alright. What I want to ask you is if, as the EiC, you have any idea of the cause of this problem, and if you think this puts in cause the presence of LANDpedia in Encyclopediae Pokémonis. Thanks. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 20:03, 27 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I don't have any knowledge on why, other than what you've noticed already. That said, if a wiki 'falls over' as it were, it's most frequently due to a lack of input from the community. That's also why Bulbapedia doesn't actively start new wikis for EP - if the community support needed to survive is there, then they'll make it themselves. If there's not enough of a community to sustain it then no amount of forcing will make that happen. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 06:08, 28 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Looks like the same has happened with [http://poketeca.com Pokéteca] (not even [http://pkstation.com the original fan site] works). Now the thing is (and the answer I was really seeking): do you think it's worth to keep defunct sites on EP? In case the answer is yes, then what do you think it should be done if another fast-growing wiki in Portuguese/Spanish appeared? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 22:26, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The inclusion (or exclusion) of a wiki from EP isn't up to me. On the 'Bulbagarden' opinion I have significant weight, but I would still need to discuss that with others before weighing in, and the ultimate decision rests with Archaic. In addition, while Bulbapedia is the oldest of the member wikis, and one of the founding members, we aren't the leader - the other members each get their say as well in any decision. I would guess that if it became a choice between a dead wiki and an active wiki of the same language, the old one would likely be replaced. I doubt we'll end up in that circumstance though, because as I mentioned earlier, they die because there's not enough of a userbase to sustain them, and as a result, not enough of a userbase to build and maintain a new one. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Yeah, I knew you weren't totaly responsible for this. But what about the "in other languages" box? Should we keep the pt and es links? Or is this also Archaic's responsibility? [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 17:47, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::As long as they're still EP members we should keep the links. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Well, forgive me for the Pokéteca thing: it didn't close, it was just a temporary measure. Just for you to know. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:red">'''オリ'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:green">'''ジ'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:blue">'''ナル'''</span>]] <small>TheOriginalOne</small> 18:10, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Something you didn't notice...==<br />
Hi. I was seeing some template pages of the wiki related to the Main Page, and noticed that [[Template:Main Page/Featured content|this one]] had somehow got unprotected (I viewed the logs and noticed that it was protected in the past, tough without seeing any other change to its protection status). <s>If I wanted, I could have vandalized the Main Page in many fun ways.</s> Please protect it. [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#9E0508">'''The'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#5D9160">'''Original'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:#60AFFE">'''One'''</span>]] 15:54, 13 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Wow, nice spotting. Thanks for letting me know. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:06, 13 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/Learnlist templates|Learnlist templates]] ==<br />
<br />
Still sits in userspace (though I recently fixed a small derp). And the style we have for G1-G4 is... really, not too {{tt|practical|though Crystal has hardly any changes in movesets, that's why I gave like 4 examples}} (unlike G5 template). What left to do with that template? [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:There's a couple of minor aesthetic tweaks I'd like to make, but they'll be a bit time consuming. I'll see if I have time, but it might need to wait until the weekend. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:25, 23 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Okay. In meantime, I will go look who needs it. I once did that, but lost the list :/ [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:15, 25 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I forgot that there was still the header that needed adjustment, so it took me longer than expected. I've created [[Template:Learnlist/levelh/4]] for the header of the generation IV subpages, and moved the two Generation IV list templates to [[Template:Learnlist/levelIVj]] (where the change was introduced in the Johto games) and [[Template:Learnlist/levelIVs]] (where the change was introduced within Sinnoh, i.e. between DP and Pt). The earlier generation templates will need to wait a bit, they need a separate header and more extensive tweaking. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 21:37, 2 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sitenotice ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't that be 'confirmation' not 'conformation'?--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 00:42, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ha! Yes, thanks for letting me know (also thanks to Kogsie for fixing it). Clearly I have been thinking too much about my chemistry, and didn't notice. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:18, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I also noticed something in the site notice. Shouldn't "IRC" be in all caps, being an acronym and all? Correct me if I'm wrong... '''&mdash;[[User:Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#F7C83B;">Bob</span>]] [[User talk:Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#276FEA;">Roberts</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Bob Roberts|<span style="color:#2D2D2D;">III</span>]]''' 02:13, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks for pointing that out, I'd copied that from an earlier revision. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:44, 27 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question ==<br />
<br />
[[User talk:Brianne23E|This]] user appears to have created their talk page and put some sort of advertising on it. They must be brand new, because there's no sign of a welcome template being put on there. What should be done? [[User:Pokegen master|Pokegen master]] ([[User talk:Pokegen master|talk]]) 21:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Exactly what you did. That's a characteristic spambot action, so a staff member needs to take care of it. Thanks for mentioning it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PokéInfobox ==<br />
<br />
There are {{tt|few|read: five; Abra, Geodude, Machop, Omanyte and Kabuto as far as I know}} Generation I Pokémon whose exp yield was changed in G4, so technically they need three fields. (or the tt template?) 07:40, 4 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Ugh, can't they just make up their mind? Thanks for mentioning it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There's more... {{tt|And it's not only Generation 1.|Found on upokecenter.com then verified in-game}}<br />
::Lv. 25 Kabutops (G3: {{tt|717|yield of 201}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Dunsparce (G3: {{tt|267|yield of 75}}; G4: {{tt|446|yield of 125}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Silcoon (G3: {{tt|253|yield of 71}}; G4: {{tt|257|yield of 72}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Dustox (G3: {{tt|571|yield of 160}}; G4: {{tt|575|yield of 161}}){{tt|*|Bit of trivia: These had their yield changed to match the one of their counterpat (Silcoon and Beautifly, respecitvely}}<br />
::Lv. 25 Lileep (G3: {{tt|432|yield of 121}}; G4: {{tt|353|yield of 99}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Cradily (G3: {{tt|717|yield of 201}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Anorith (G3: {{tt|425|yield of 119}}; G4: {{tt|353|yield of 99}})<br />
::Lv. 25 Armaldo (G3: {{tt|714|yield of 200}}; G4: {{tt|710|yield of 199}})<br />
::That's quite bit of changes... [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 11:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Abilities ==<br />
<br />
Do you know what sidegames (minus PMD) have description for Abilities (these that exist in main series; since eg. Conquest has both those in main-series and new ones). [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC) PS. Asking because [[User talk:Marked +-+-+/AbilityInfobox|this]]. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] ([[User talk:Marked +-+-+|talk]]) 08:50, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I can't think of any that you haven't already mentioned without research. As you said, PMD and Conquest do. Ranger doesn't, Rumble has [[Special Trait]]s instead. PokéPark I don't recall having abilities, and most of the others were before Gen III. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Side series ==<br />
<br />
For over a month, {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has neglected to answer {{DL|User talk:SnorlaxMonster|Side series|my query}}, so I've come to you instead. {{DL|Talk:Generation VI|"For the first time in the main series, the games will be in full 3D"?|According to him}}, it was decided years ago that the Stadium, Box, and Colosseum series make up the "side series" rather than main or spin-off series. At my prodding, the respective games' pages were updated to acknowledge this, but we still have no template or mainspace page for side series, so all those links still redirect to spin-off series, [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Games&curid=11934&diff=1951987&oldid=1917244 to the confusion of uninformed users]. I drafted the article and template we need in my userspace ([[User:Pumpkinking0192/Side series]] and [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Template:Side series]]). Are these suitable for mainspacing? If not, how can I fix that? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 03:24, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:There was some miscommunication, resulting in a 'decision' to change the naming scheme being made without the proper input or approval of the Editorial Board, which is required for such a large, widespread change. There are several issues with the rename which have been brought to our attention and the change has been put on hold until the issues can be sorted, but it's taking a long time because there are many more things which are significantly more important, such as a number of very complex templates needing a complete rebuild before XY due to new mechanics. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks for letting me know. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 18:44, 13 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I cant add mew glitch yellow pic ==<br />
<br />
pleas read subject--[[User:Mecha mew 2|Mecha mew 2]] ([[User talk:Mecha mew 2|talk]]) 15:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Images are uploaded over on the [[a:Main Page|Bulbagargen Archives]]. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 09:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== List of Pokémon Pocket Monsters chapters ==<br />
<br />
Would it be alright to ask you with this, as I posted this on {{u|Zesty Cactus}}'s talk page, but I didn't get a reply?<br />
<br />
For this [[User:Reshi643/List of Pokémon Pocket Monsters chapters|list]], I have two questions:<br>1) For the Volume 10 chapters, the (Japanese:) and the infobox don't match, is there a reason for it?<br>2) For Volume 14, is it alright to leave the English title column to match with the rest? — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:05, 6 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:# It looks like the infobox one is simply transliterated (romanised), while the article one is translated. The infobox parameter's poorly named ("title_ro" instead of "title_trans" or similar), but I'd rather have the translation there than the romanisation. The translation lets people that don't read Japanese see how the title was changed when the chapter was translated into English.<br />
:# Definitely.<br />
<span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 22:28, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, I moved the list to the mainspace, also, sorry about the timestamp being August 6, as I copy and paste the message, and didn't resign the message. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 22:34, 17 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== One-time appearance of a Pokémon ==<br />
<br />
What is the ruling for anime Pokémon not belonging to anyone who appeared in one episode (including ones who are nicknamed). If they receive an article, does staff need to approve of it first, because I created the Osharina article off-site since she caused the rivalry between Ash and Cadbury, which was the main focus of the episode. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 05:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You'd be better off talking to a staff member who watches the anime, but based on what you've told me, I do not think it qualifies based on the notability requirements. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Glad I didn't create it. [[User:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Patty</span>]][[User talk:Pattyman|<span style="color:orange">Man</span>]] 01:30, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== IP range calculator ==<br />
<br />
I had passed this onto G50 and felt that I should also pass it onto you: [https://toolserver.org/~chm/blockcalc.php IP range calculator] I use this on Wookieepedia to calculate range blocks, and looking over the block log, the blocked IP will need to be range-blocked. That said, I had dropped the two IPs into the calculator and calculated a range: Range 216.154.88.0/21 (up to 2048 users would be blocked) Looking it up, it may be a proxy server, as I had dealt with spambots from that hostname before. Thus, blocking the aforementioned range should do the trick. Good luck! [[User:Trak Nar|Trak Nar]] ([[User talk:Trak Nar|talk]]) 05:20, 18 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Since the IP traces to residential Canada, which is one of our main audiences, we won't be blocking an IP range because it's far too likely to hit legitimate users. Not to mention the fact that this user clearly knows how to change his/her IP, I'm confident that it wouldn't stop the target person for long. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis: LANDpedia ==<br />
<br />
Hi, sorry to come bothering you but you seemed the most appropriate person for this matter, I ask for apologies if I am wrong. I just wanted to note that it seems LANDpedia no longer exists at all, [http://pokeland.net/ Poké Land] seems to be up, but LAND gazette doesn't seem to be updated since the 17th of April of 2012, LANDpedia doesn't seem to exist as a website at all (the page can not be found, suggesting to be redirected back to Poké Land), and LAND community seems to be the only one up but I couldn't confirm if it's still being update. Since the website seems to be discontinued, is it a good policy to keep the links in the main page and other pages under the Encyclopædiæ Pokémonis even though there is nowhere for the users to go to? Just trying to land a hand and help, have a nice day ^^ ----[[User:EtherealAether|<span style="color:#1E90FF;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">EtherealAether</span>]] <small>''([[User talk:EtherealAether|<span style="color:red;font-weight:bold;">talk</span>]])''</small> 14:42, 21 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm aware it's down. It needs a lot of discussion among senior staff, both here and on the other EP wikis, before we remove their links, and there are a lot of more important things that we're focusing on at the moment. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question about userspace edits ==<br />
<br />
I read on the FAQ you can only make 3 userspace edits a day. Can you give me an example of what they mean by 3 edits?<br />
Yes I'm a noob [[User:Raichu8575|Raichu8575]] ([[User talk:Raichu8575|talk]]) 13:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)Raichu8575<br />
:Every time you click the save page button is one edit. If you do that on a page that starts with "User:", that is one userspace edit. So you can only do that three times in one day, then you have to wait for the next day. You also need to make edits to pages that don't have a prefix (i.e. the actual articles) to be allowed to make that many userspace edits in one day. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Breeding table ==<br />
<br />
From the {{m|Natural Gift}}'s breeding table, why is the Gen IV list under the Gen V header? — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:If I'm not mistaken, those are BW and B2W2 lists, not Gen IV lists. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 05:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::You're right, I thought with the Gen IV having nothing in it, that there was something wrong with it. Sorry about that. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 05:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== "Last episode in X series" trivia ==<br />
<br />
I'm sorry to bother you, but I see that you're the only staff member currently making edits. Viv and I are having a [[User talk:Viv#"Last episode of X series" trivia|disagreement]] over this piece of trivia in the articles [[EP274]], [[AG192]], [[DP191]] and [[BW142]]. It's absolutely unnecessary because the first line of the article already states that each of these is the last episode in their respective series, but Viv insists that it cannot be removed because... well, I can't fathom his reasoning. He seems to think that because the trivia have been on the articles a long time, they need an admin's approval to be removed, and in the interest of not edit warring, I'm coming to you to resolve this because he won't listen to me. Thanks. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:11, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm also really sorry for bothering you for such a small matter but I think that, the trivia should remain there as it's from the starting and after the [[BW142]] trivia only, all the trivia have been removed, I strictly think this should be there as always. This should not be undone by Pumpkinking for the sake of doing it, further more for removing such a trivia he should have asked someone. I would agree whatever your decision would be. <small> Of course this is not a court. </small>--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:21, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Thank You for even listening to me!--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:16, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'm not removing it "for the sake of doing it". I'm removing it because it is against our policy on trivia for such a redundant thing to exist. You still haven't given any legitimate reason for it to remain. ("It's always been there so it should stay" is apathy, not a reason.) [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 08:26, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::We don't have an official policy on trivia. At least... not yet. The trivia point wasn't really notable as the first paragraph of the article already states the exact same thing. If something can be seen on the article itself, it isn't notable.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#025DA6">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#5A96C5">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#EA1A3E">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#F16A81">ire</span>]] 08:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Wait baby, cool it down folks We should not be fighting for one line Trivia. What's the big deal if viewers will see that one line trivia of '''This is the last episode of this this series'''. If you are fighting for this then what about the Trivia's like '''This is the last episode of 2000's''' .I'm saying these trivia should remain there I guess we both have given enough of reasoning. Now, let Werdnae decide on this. <br />
Pumpkinking it's my humble request to you now neither you nor should I post anything about this topic. If it's clear you can reply YES/NO.<br />
<br />
Post Script-------- Mr. Werdnae I'm really sorry for using your page as an 'EDIT WAR RESOLVING PAGE' and I thing Pumpkinking would also be sorry--[[User:Viv|Viv]] ([[User talk:Viv|talk]]) 08:40, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Trivia points should be pieces of info that are worth noting, but don't fit elsewhere in the article. These fail that requirement because it does fit elsewhere in the article - it's already in the intro, making the trivia redundant and unnecessary. As a result, I agree with the removal of the 'end of series' trivia points. As for the 'last episode of &lt;year>' points, I don't think they're notable at all. It's just not that important. If there were breaks at the end of each year, or each year started a new (sub-series) plot arc or something, then maybe. But as it is, the actual date that they aired is somewhat incidental.<br />
<br />
:As a side note, if you're going to ask me a question on my talk page, please continue the other parts of the conversation where you started them, so that you give me enough time to consider both sides of the argument, make a decision and then explain it, without getting an edit conflict and having to start again. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:52, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you, Werdnae. As a side note, Force Fire, while I am aware that we don't have an official written-in-stone policy about trivia, it would be fallacious to ignore the de facto consensus against redundancy that people, including many admins, have been cracking down on, especially lately. That's what I was referring to by "policy": the unwritten rules that are enforced just as much as the written ones. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 17:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PokéInfobox. ==<br />
<br />
I've noticed there is a small error there (that is, it says "Gen. I-IV" even if Pokémon didn't originate from Generation 1), also there shouldn't be tooltip for New Dex No. if Pokémon's Johto Dex No. is 101 or smaller, since up {{p|Yanma|to that}} they're the same. [[User:Uploader|Uploader]] ([[User talk:Uploader|talk]]) 07:33, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Thanks for mentioning those. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Red and Blue art? ==<br />
<br />
Don't mean to bother you or anything, but all original Pokémon have their infobox images as their Red and Blue art and its not September 30th. Glitch?--[[User:Weavilewarrior|Weavile Warrior]] ([[User talk:Weavilewarrior|talk]]) 21:57, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:See [[Talk:Meowth (Pokémon)#Art]]. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 22:02, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I find it silly that users should have to hunt down a minuscule talk page for an answer to a simple question. I think it's an issue that the notices on the talk pages do not mention this date as one of the dates for the artwork switching. Confusion will only continue unless it's addressed somewhere. '''''[[User:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">--Pokemaster</span>]][[User talk:Pokemaster97|<span style="color:Blue;">97</span>]]''''' 22:28, 1 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::If anyone's interested in mainspacing it, I made [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Template:TalkArtworkNotice|a template]] we can put on the top of these pages so we can update them all simultaneously when something like this happens. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 04:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 50.Grind ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I have written two articles on Wikipedia - [[wikipedia:50.Grind|50.Grind]] and their song [[wikipedia:Gotta Catch 'Em All|Gotta Catch 'Em All]]. Would they be notable enough for inclusion here, and if so, would I be able to just copy my articles over here?--[[User:Tmwps|Tmwps]] ([[User talk:Tmwps|talk]]) 21:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The former I would say no. We can just link to the Wikipedia article where it matters. The latter could get an article, but it would need more than what's on that wikipedia article before it'd be considered a worthwhile page. Check the [[Bulbapedia:Project_Music#Song_articles|Project Music]] page for what's expected. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 08:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Underleveled Pokémon ==<br />
<br />
Hello, Werdnae. I wanted to discuss a potential change with you on how Underleveled Pokémon are presented on the [[Level]] article. At present, the [[Level#Underleveled Pokémon|current section]] is a few short paragraphs that only mention a few examples of Pokémon in the wild and in battles with Trainers that are not yet to the proper level to evolve. I was wondering if you would be alright if a standalone article could be created about the Underleveled Pokémon, along with [[User:Super goku/Sandbox/Underleveled Table|a table for a list]] of all the instances where it has occurred in trainer battles at the least. Thank you for your time. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 07:05, 6 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
:My initial thought was that it might be too common to be worth noting, but I don't have the time to look into it properly it while I'm focusing on templates for XY. I don't want to make a decision on it yet because of that. If another staff member wants to jump in and make that decision, I'll trust their judgement. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 00:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plasma Blast ==<br />
I have attempted to correct a simple factual inaccuracy on {{TCG|Plasma Blast|this page}} twice, however [[user talk:Maverick Nate|Maverick Nate]] has reverted it both times with little explanation. I attempted to resolve this issue on his talk page over two weeks ago, but he did not respond and simply reverted my change again immediately (with a very slight change in the wording that doesn't really clarify how it's factually correct). I would appreciate it if you could step in and encourage him to either more thoroughly explain the reasoning behind the reverts or to stop making the reverts. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 07:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Plasma_Blast_(TCG)&diff=1964162Plasma Blast (TCG)2013-09-08T06:43:13Z<p>Viskiv: No TMs or anything similar, brought it up on talk page a while ago but no response so making this change again.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ExpansionPrevNext| prev=Plasma Freeze | next=Legendary Treasures }}<br />
{{TCGExpansionInfobox<br />
| setname = Plasma Blast<br />
| jasetname = メガロキャノン<br />
| transsetname = Megalo Cannon<br />
| setsymbol = yes<br />
| setlogo = PlasmaBlastEnglishLogo.png<br />
| encards = 105<br />
| jacards = 86<br />
| ensetnum = 57<br />
| enrelease = August 14, 2013<br />
| jasetnum = 54<br />
| deck1 = {{tcg|Mind Wipe}}<br />
| deck1type = {{e|Grass}} {{e|Psychic}}<br />
| deck2 = {{tcg|Solar Strike}}<br />
| deck2type = {{e|Fire}} {{e|Water}}<br />
| jarelease = March 15, 2013<br />
| prevset = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| japrevset = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| japrevsetname = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| nextset = EX Battle Boost<br />
| janextset = EX Battle Boost<br />
| janextsetname = EX Battle Boost<br />
|}}<br />
'''Plasma Blast''' (Japanese: '''メガロキャノン''' ''Megalo Cannon'') is the name given to the 10th main expansion of cards from the English Black & White Series of the Pokémon Trading Card Game. The Japanese release is the ninth of the BW era.<br />
<br />
==Information==<br />
'''Plasma Blast''' and the Japanese equivalent '''Megalo Cannon''' feature the debut of {{p|Genesect}} in the [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]], as well as [[Team Plasma]], their Pokémon, and for the first time since their debut in {{TCG|Plasma Storm}}, cards designed to specifically counter Team Plasma. Along with the typical Pokémon and {{TCG|Trainer card}}s, Megalo Cannon sports {{TCG|Pokémon-EX}} cards, {{TCG|Ace Spec card}}s, a {{TCG|Special Energy card}}, {{TCG|Full Art card}}s, and [[Shiny Pokémon|Shiny]] {{TCG|Secret card}}s, totaling 86 cards. The set was released on March 15th, 2013 in Japan accompanied by the {{TCG|Blastoise + Kyurem-EX Combo Deck}}.<br />
<br />
In order to help defend against Team Plasma's onslaught, [[Unova]] champion [[Iris]] is present alongside [[Caitlin]], a member of the [[Unova]] [[Elite Four]]. Six {{TCG|Pokémon-EX}} are included: {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|9}}, {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|51}}, {{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kyurem-EX|30}} and Team Plasma's {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|10}}, {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|53}}, and {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|54}}. Many of the Pokémon present are not from [[Generation V]], but instead are Pokémon from older Generations, some of which not featured in the Card Game since the Diamond & Pearl Series. <br />
<br />
Megalo Cannon is only the third set of the BW Era to feature [[Fossil]]s, the first two being {{TCG|Red Collection}} and {{TCG|Dark Rush}}. {{p|Archen}} and {{p|Tirtouga}} are given their second cards, while {{p|Lileep}} is given its first printing as a {{TCG|Restored Pokémon}}. {{TCG|Plume Fossil}} and {{TCG|Cover Fossil}} are reprinted, and a new fossil Trainer card, {{TCG|Root Fossil Lileep}} is included in favor over the old {{TCG|Root Fossil}} in order to prevent confusion over how the card should work.<br />
<br />
A special promotional card was given to those who purchased a booster box of Megalo Cannon in stores. This promotional card was {{TCG ID|BW-P Promo|Porygon-Z|208}}, a reprint with new artwork of the same Pokémon in the expansion.<br />
<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Additional cards|tablecol=2b96c4|bordercol=531872|cellcol=531872|rarity=yes|symbol=no}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|10/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect|10}}|Grass|||Cracked Ice Holo {{TCG|Mind Wipe}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|13/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Volcarona|13}}|Fire|||Cracked Ice Holo {{TCG|Solar Strike}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|16/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Blastoise|16}}|Water|||Non Holo {{TCG|Solar Strike}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|46/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golurk|46}}|Psychic|||Non Holo {{TCG|Mind Wipe}} theme deck exclusive}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=70daf4|rarity=yes|promo=yes}}<br />
<br />
==Card list==<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="{{{class|}}} multicol" style="background:{{{bgColor|transparent}}}; width:{{{width|100%}}};"<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Plasma Blast|tablecol=2b96c4|bordercol=531872|cellcol=531872|rarity=yes|symbol=no}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|1/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Surskit|1}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|2/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Masquerain|2}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|3/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lileep|3}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|4/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Cradily|4}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|5/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tropius|5}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|6/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Karrablast|6}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|7/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Shelmet|7}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|8/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Accelgor|8}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|9/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion-EX|9}}|Grass||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|10/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect|10}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|11/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect-EX|11}}|Grass||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|12/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Larvesta|12}}|Fire||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|13/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Volcarona|13}}|Fire||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|14/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Squirtle|14}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|15/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Wartortle|15}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|16/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Blastoise|16}}|Water||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|17/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lapras|17}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|18/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Remoraid|18}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|19/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Octillery|19}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|20/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Suicune|20}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|21/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Snorunt|21}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|22/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Glalie|22}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|23/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Froslass|23}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|24/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Relicanth|24}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|25/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Snover|25}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|26/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Abomasnow|26}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|27/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tirtouga|27}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|28/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Carracosta|28}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|29/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ducklett|29}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|30/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kyurem-EX|30}}|Water||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|31/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tynamo|31}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|32/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Eelektrik|32}}|Lightning||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|33/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Eelektross|33}}|Lightning||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|34/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Drifloon|34}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|35/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Drifblim|35}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|36/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Uxie|36}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|37/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Mesprit|37}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|38/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Azelf|38}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|39/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Munna|39}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|40/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Musharna|40}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|41/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Sigilyph|41}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|42/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Solosis|42}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|43/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Duosion|43}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|44/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Reuniclus|44}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|45/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golett|45}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|46/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golurk|46}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|47/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machop|47}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|48/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machoke|48}}|Fighting||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|49/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machamp|49}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|50/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machamp|50}}|Fighting||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|51/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Throh|51}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|52/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Sawk|52}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|53/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Archen|53}}|Fighting||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|54/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Archeops|54}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|55/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Houndour|55}}|Darkness||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|56/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Houndoom|56}}|Darkness||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|57/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Aron|57}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|58/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lairon|58}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|59/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Aggron|59}}|Metal||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|60/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Jirachi-EX|60}}|Metal||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|61/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Escavalier|61}}|Metal||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|62/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Bagon|62}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|63/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Shelgon|63}}|Dragon||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|64/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Salamence|64}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|65/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dialga-EX|65}}|Dragon||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|66/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Palkia-EX|66}}|Dragon||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|67/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Axew|67}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|68/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Fraxure|68}}|Dragon||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|69/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Haxorus|69}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|70/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Druddigon|70}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|71/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kangaskhan|71}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|72/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon|72}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|73/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon2|73}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|74/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon-Z|74}}|Colorless||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|75/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Teddiursa|75}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|76/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ursaring|76}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|77/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Chatot|77}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|78/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Caitlin|78}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|79/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Cover Fossil|79}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|80/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Energy Retrieval|80}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|81/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Iris|81}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|82/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Plume Fossil|82}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|83/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Pokémon Catcher|83}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|84/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Professor Juniper|84}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|85/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Rare Candy|85}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|86/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Reversal Trigger|86}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|87/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Root Fossil Lileep|87}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|88/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Silver Bangle|88}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|89/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Silver Mirror|89}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|90/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ultra Ball|90}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|91/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Plasma Energy|91}}|Energy|Colorless|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|92/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|G Booster|92}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|93/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|G Scope|93}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|94/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Master Ball|94}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|95/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Scoop Up Cyclone|95}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|96/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion-EX|96}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|97/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect-EX|97}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|98/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Jirachi-EX|98}}|Metal||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|99/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dialga-EX|99}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|100/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Palkia-EX|100}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|101/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Iris|101}}|Supporter||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|102/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Exeggcute|102}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|103/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion|103}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|104/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dusknoir|104}}|Psychic||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|105/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Rare Candy|105}}|Item||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=531872}}<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Megalo Cannon|tablecol=dcdaff|bordercol=c2a853|cellcol=c2a853|rarity=yes|symbol=yes|image=SetSymbolMegalo Cannon.png}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|001/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Surskit|1}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|002/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Masquerain|2}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|003/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lileep|3}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|004/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Cradily|4}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|005/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tropius|5}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|006/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Karrablast|6}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|007/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Shelmet|7}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|008/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Accelgor|8}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|009/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|9}}|Grass||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|010/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|10}}|Grass||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|011/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Larvesta|11}}|Fire||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|012/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Volcarona|12}}|Fire||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|013/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lapras|13}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|014/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Remoraid|14}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|015/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Octillery|15}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|016/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Snorunt|16}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|017/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Glalie|17}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|018/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Relicanth|18}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|019/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Snover|19}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|020/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Abomasnow|20}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|021/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tirtouga|21}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|022/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Carracosta|22}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|023/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tynamo|23}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|024/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Eelektrik|24}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|025/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Eelektross|25}}|Lightning||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|026/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Drifloon|26}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|027/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Drifblim|27}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|028/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Uxie|28}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|029/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Mesprit|29}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|030/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Azelf|30}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|031/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Munna|31}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|032/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Musharna|32}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|033/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Sigilyph|33}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|034/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Solosis|34}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|035/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Duosion|35}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|036/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Reuniclus|36}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|037/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Golett|37}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|038/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Golurk|38}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|039/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machop|39}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|040/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machoke|40}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|041/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machamp|41}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|042/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Throh|42}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|043/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Sawk|43}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|044/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Archen|44}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|045/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Archeops|45}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|046/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Houndour|46}}|Darkness||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|047/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Houndoom|47}}|Darkness||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|048/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Aron|48}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|049/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lairon|49}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|050/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Aggron|50}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|051/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|51}}|Metal||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|052/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Escavalier|52}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|053/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|53}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|054/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|54}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|055/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Axew|55}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|056/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Fraxure|56}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|057/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Haxorus|57}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|058/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Druddigon|58}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|059/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon|59}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|060/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon2|60}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|061/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon-Z|61}}|Colorless||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|062/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Teddiursa|62}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|063/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Ursaring|63}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|064/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Chatot|64}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|065/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Root Fossil Lileep|65}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|066/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Plume Fossil|66}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|067/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Cover Fossil|67}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|068/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Silver Bangle|68}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|069/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Silver Mirror|69}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|070/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Reversal Trigger|70}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|071/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Iris|71}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|072/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Caitlin|72}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|073/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Scoop Up Cyclone|73}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|074/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|G Scope|74}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|075/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|G Booster|75}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|076/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Plasma Energy|76}}|Energy|Colorless|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|077/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|77}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|078/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|78}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|079/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|79}}|Metal||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|080/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|80}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|081/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|81}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|082/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Iris|82}}|Supporter||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|083/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Exeggcute|83}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|084/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion|84}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|085/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dusknoir|85}}|Psychic||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|086/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Rare Candy|86}}|Item||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=dcdaff}}<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Project TCG notice}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{TCG Releases|BW}}<br />
<br />
<br />
[[de:Megalo Cannon (TCG)]]<br />
[[ja:ポケモンカードゲームBW 拡張パック メガロキャノン]]<br />
[[zh:巨大加农（TCG）]]<br />
[[zh:Plasma Blast（TCG）]]</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Maverick_Nate/Archives/9&diff=1957822User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/92013-08-24T09:51:05Z<p>Viskiv: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{User:Maverick Nate/Mainspace}}<br />
{| width="100%" style="background: #E24242; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 2px solid #a04059;"<br />
|-<br />
| width="33%" text align="center" style="background: #E24242; -moz-border-radius: 1em;" | <span class="plainlinks">[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Maverick_Nate&action=edit&section=new '''Please leave new messages at the bottom of this page.''']</span><br />
|}<br />
{| align="left" width="69%" style="background: #8A776E; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 2px solid #a04059;"<br />
|-<br />
! Notes<br />
|-<br />
| style="background: #E24242; -moz-border-radius: 1em; padding: .5em 1em;" |<br />
*[[Energy Removal (Base Set 92)]] and [[Energy Removal 2 (Expedition 140)]] are the same card.<br />
*[[Super Energy Removal (Base Set 79)]] and [[Super Energy Removal 2 (Aquapolis 134)]] are the same card.<br />
*All the {{TCG|Neo Destiny}} dex entries are seemingly from Crystal.<br />
|}<br />
{| align="right" width="20%" style="background: #8A776E; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 2px solid #a04059;"<br />
|-<br />
! Contents<br />
|-<br />
| text align="center" style="background: #E24242; -moz-border-radius: 1em;" | __TOC__<br />
|}<br />
{| align="Center" width="10%" style="background: #8A776E; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 2px solid #a04059;"<br />
|-<br />
! Archives<br />
|-<br />
| text align="center" style="background: #E24242; -moz-border-radius: 1em;" | <b><br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/1|{{color|000|One}}]]<br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/2|{{color|000|Two}}]]<br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/3|{{color|000|Three}}]]<br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/4|{{color|000|Four}}]]<br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/5|{{color|000|Five}}]]<br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/6|{{color|000|Six}}]]<br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/7|{{color|000|Seven}}]]<br />
*[[User talk:Maverick Nate/Archives/8|{{color|000|Eight}}]]</b><br />
|}<br />
{{left clear}}<br />
<br />
== Garchomp and Hydreigon half decks ==<br />
<br />
There isn't any indication that they will be featured as Pokémon-EX. All Pokémon-EX so far have been (basic) Legendary Pokémon. Plus, even if they were, their artwork shows they likely won't be EXs (they don't have CGI artwork which is basically a staple in regular EXs), at least in these half decks. What you wrote was pure speculation. Another thing is, how do you know that Roserade and Foongus will be Grass type and not Psychic types and how do you know that Houndoom will be Fire-type and not Dark-type? It seems to me that, since Drifloon is in the deck, Roserade and Foongus will most likely be Psychic-types too, but since anything isn't confirmed, what should be in the page is that they could be featured with either type. [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] 18:24, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
:May I ask why you didn't just fix it instead of bitching at me? So I made a mistake. I was rushing through those pages when I made them because I had to get to class. You could have easily fixed it and posted an edit summary on why you removed things. I pay attention to all edits on everything I've ever created. I would have noticed, and in fact, I saw your edits before you posted this talk page message to me. Also, they do have the CGI "break the border" artwork featured on EX's. It is quite possibly that these Pokémon can be EX's, which is why I said "and may feature it as a {{TCG|Pokémon-EX}} card". There is evidence that supports it, and it was written in a way that represents that it both may and may not be an EX. Furthermore, I don't see you creating pages, so relax, and back down a bit. You're coming off as quite rude. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 18:36, 2 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
::lol, you're the one who's being rude! If I sounded rude, it wasn't the intention. I just came here to warn you about it because if I just had done it without telling you, you would probably undo it all, like it usually happens :\. First, I didn't fix the types, because I wasn't really sure on how to change that (that's why I came here to remind you about it). Second, no, they don't have the CGI art that breaks the border, they clealy have hand-drawn art (you should probably look closer). And there's no evidence they will be EX's like you're saying and I don't think it's quite possible at all because of the reasons I said earlier (at least, not in these half decks; the main set may be a different story). [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] 05:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::haha, Pokébeach just confirmed they are not EX's, not even the main set ones. I told you they are only making Legendary Pokémon-EX... [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] 06:01, 3 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::How ignorant of you. It was the Japanese official site that revealed it. PokéBeach doesn't reveal anything. They just post news. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 16:55, 3 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Even more ignorant you are by thinking I don't know that it was the official site. I just mentioned Pokébeach because that's where I go to know about TCG News. Seriously, are you so mad just because I was right and you wrong? Or because I ironically corrected you about things that you warned me about in the past? I won't waste my time arguing with you anymore. From now on, everytime I see some detail wrong, or something obvious that should be in a page but isn't, I'll fix it without caring if you agree with it or not. [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] 18:31, 3 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Both of you need to take a chill pill and calm down. Enough with the insults. If you can't continue this conversation without attacking each other then it ends with my comment. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:42, 4 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TCG card edits ==<br />
<br />
Sorry if it was meant to stay in the trivia section of the page. The 3-5 cards had it noted in the intro, so I thought that was where the other should have gone. Sorry if they were meant to stay in the trivia section. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 18:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I only just started changing them. I didn't get around to fixing cards 3-5. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 18:19, 15 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, ok. Again, sorry about doing so. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 18:21, 15 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Featured content for today. ==<br />
<br />
It's slightly incorrect, as it sounds like if ExtremeSpeed lost its increased priority for Generation III, saying ''In Generation II '''and''' IV''. And since it's protected, I can't edit it. [[User:Marked +-+-+|Marked +-+-+]] 09:04, 16 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Remove a page? ==<br />
<br />
Think you could remove [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Dialgafan1/Sandbox this userspace page]]? Appears to be mostly blank party templates with nothing at all in most of them. [[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen Fennec]] 21:32, 19 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Brother's Friend Never got an Activation Notice Email ==<br />
<br />
My brother's friend says he signed up with an account a couple weeks ago. I didn't see him create the account. There were very little names. He signed up with the name ShadowLugia and he wanted to come on here to make edits, have a profile, contact some people, even interact with me and he has gotten no email in his inbox. I believe that he's still trying to help us with our situation that I'm not a sock of my sibling and he has a sibling of his own. He wants to explain that after he proves that we're not him. My brother also has a friend named Ruckus Jorgee. If he has tried to register and received no activation notice email, please send one to him too. He is neither IMMORAL or AMORAL because whatever Serebii said to him on his profile about a year ago isn't true. ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 19:42, 25 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
<br />
== TCG Type ==<br />
<br />
Hey Nate, would it be okay if the ''Elemental types (TCG)'' page be moved to ''Type (TCG)'' so as to reflect the recent change? TCG is more your domain, so I figure I'd ask before going gung-ho. --[[User:Spriteit|Spriteit]] 11:39, 29 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Please ==<br />
<br />
Can you put my Flora, Bakkie, Akkie, Grace(Unova), Edmond, and Domon pages on your Future Pages sections of your mainspace? [[User:Chomper4|Chomper4]] 14:54, 5 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Another user ==<br />
<br />
Seems {{tt|this user|Pikman14}} is just using their talk page as an advertisement. They haven't contributed a thing since joining. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 23:33, 8 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Provide a link next time, kthnx? {{u|Pikman14|This would have been acceptable}}. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 23:42, 8 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Alright. Will do. :) ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:teal">Frozen</span>]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|<span style="color:green">Fennec</span>]]'' 23:49, 8 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mainspaceable ==<br />
<br />
I noticed [[User:Force Fire/List of Pokémon by|this]] was on the template, which kinda surprised me. Also my experiment page, which you called "Things" have been moved [[User:Force Fire/TV Shows in the Pokémon World|here]]. Finally, I was hoping you could put [[User:Force Fire/List of anime Pokémon by Capture|this page]] on the template as well, but if it's there already then nevermind.--[[User:Force Fire|<span style="color:#424B50">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#848A8D">orce</span>]][[User talk:Force Fire|<span style="color:#E3CED0">'''F'''</span><span style="color:#EDDFE0">ire</span>]] 09:58, 13 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Double colorless energy image==<br />
<br />
Why was it reverted?[[User:Arkenaw|Arkenaw]] 00:16, 21 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Because the image names are final and should never be changed. What should have been done is uploading a new version of the old file on the archives, which I have done. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 00:18, 21 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TCG images ==<br />
<br />
Heya, I'm a new user here at Bulbapedia. Among the first things I attempted to contribute with was uploading [[a:image:DragonBlastAron35.jpg|DragonBlastAron35.jpg]]. The summary included a few errors which another user was kind enough to solve, but there are still a few things I'm wondering if you could help me with.<br />
*The summary fix was good (judging by how it matches most other TCG summaries), but I'm a little puzzled by how it discarded information I tried to add (description, notes, summary). Isn't such information important after all, despite the upload-checklist?<br />
*While the image seems fine, can you check whether there are any errors about it? It'd be troublesome if I start uploading images while unknowingly breaking one or more rules. [[User:FrozenMetal|FrozenMetal]] 20:41, 24 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
:As a general rule here, we don't really reference or source things too much. (On a side note, I edited out your reference addition to one of the Wailord cards, simply because one can see the information stated is true simply by looking at the links provided in the trivia. We could also start doing our own categories like that: cards with so much HP; cards with certain retreat costs. With everything we already have in place, it would take one simple edit to throw all 7000 cards into those categories.)<br />
:Now, back to the concerns you brought up here. It is just something we don't really do here. For card images, we keep the summaries simple and straightforward. Most of the time, cards happen in batches of over 100, and in order to be one of the fastest news sites for them, easy and quick are the best things for us. Not too many people visit the Archives, so extended summaries aren't absolutely necessary, since not enough people would see it for the time investment they would need. Notes aren't too necessary. None of us are really concerned how the image is edited... we pretty much just want them to exist. As for the source: we give credit to those who want it and are on good terms with bulbagarden. Credit is also typically reserved for Bulbanews. We try our best not to have to use things from other leading Pokémon fansites, because we don't want to source them (but we will when we are forced to). When you add a link, you are supporting people going to whatever site you linked. We want people to stay here... especially for TCG. Providing them with a way out makes it so they don't come here. I've personally been trying to add a lot of new TCG features so that people want to stay here. If you are interested, I'll explain what they are to you.<br />
:As for rules and things about the images. Simply because it is a recently released Japanese set, we aren't too concerned with replacing the images we already have. I do understand why you uploaded Aron: It appears that the image was already uploaded on the Archives under a different file name that was not being used on the actual wiki page. It has since been fixed, and I have uploaded the image you provided overtop the image that already existed. We'd like to wait for the English release to upload a better, English image of the card. I'm a firm believer in not having to spend time doing something, just to have to do it again in a few months. There are a lot of things to do for the TCG here: time does not need spent having to redo something, if you understand what I mean. We'd also prefer not taking card images from online and scanning the cards ourselves. I am actually working on something with another online site, and have started personally scanning every card in format.<br />
:One last thing I noticed. I saw in one of your edits that you used the word "Wailords". This is incorrect. The plural of Wailord is simply Wailord. They are like sheep. The plural of every Pokémon is simply the Pokémon name. If you continue editing, do keep this in mind. <br />
:I know I said quite a few things right here. It might be easier if we could start talking in an instant messaging fashion. I like you, and I like what you're doing. If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to bring them to me, and I will try my best to help you out with them. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 06:01, 25 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you for taking your time to provide a comprehensive answer. Personally I'm a fan of (heavy, if possible) citation, though I won't impose this opinion on Bulbapedia if it's not the norm. You seem like a very devoted contributor to Bulbapedia, and so I won't try to challenge your preferences either. Aside from that, you've probably noticed that I mostly focus on trivia regarding the TCG. For now I'm content with that, but I'm willing to help out with other work if needed (referring to the TCG features you mentioned). Finishing up another thing; the the "Wailords" was merely a slip, I already learned the "plural-rule" from {{TCG ID|Team Rocket|Dark Kadabra|39}}. I've also got one more question: Although I already added some trivia about Wailord's HP on its main page, I've gotten the impression such trivia sections rarely (if ever) mention anything TCG-related. Is this a coincidence, or is it usually avoided? 17:25, 25 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TCG metagame/terminology ==<br />
<br />
We have [[Appendix:Metagame terminology|this]] for videogame terminology, and ''meta'' and ''metagame'' both redirect there. There's no mention made of the "metagame" as to how it is used within the TCG fandom. Do you think it warrants a paragraph there, a new page, or what? --[[User:Politoed666|<span style="color:#00B7EB">''P''</span> <span style="color:#008080">''o''</span>]] [[User talk:Politoed666|<span style="color:#0095B6">''L''</span> <span style="color:#00CCCC">''i''</span>]] 02:56, 12 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I'm sure it could warrant a large section on that page. The page could probably be divided between the two, since they are equally as important. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 20:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Anime characters in the TCG ==<br />
<br />
Hi. Why can't cards like [[Brock's Geodude (Gym Heroes 38)]] be put in {{an|Brock#In the TCG|this section}} of {{an|Brock|Brock's page}}? I know that he has a Geodude in the games, so the card doesn't necessarily reference the anime Brock, but I think it should be included in the list. At the very least, [[Brock's Vulpix (Gym Challenge 37)]], [[Brock's Zubat (Gym Heroes 24)]], etc. should be included; they're clearly based on the anime. [[User:Bulbajer|Bulbajer]] 18:08, 20 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The cards came out before the anime episode appeared. There is no way that the cards are based on that specific episode. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 19:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Actually, [[EP028]] aired ten days before ''Gym Booster 1: Leaders' Stadium'' was released, so both Vulpix and Zubat can be (and obviously are) based on the anime.--'''[[User:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#AB0909">電</font><font color="#063A73">禅</font>]]<small>[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|<font color="#fff" face="Tahoma"><span style="text-shadow:#000 0.2em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Den Zen</span></font>]]</small>''' 20:33, 20 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::This is one of the reasons why I was against splitting off Brock (anime). The TCG can't appropriate the cards that go to game Brock and Anime Brock without speculation. Dennou Zenshi, can you add whatever is appropriate? ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 20:54, 20 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Okay, cool. Thanks guys. [[User:Bulbajer|Bulbajer]] 19:48, 22 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The Rarity about TCG ==<br />
<br />
Excuse me, what is the different between {{rar|Rare}} and {{rar|Rare Holo}}? --[[User:847418742|847418742]]/[[User talk:847418742|Nick:Togekiss of Moon]] 03:58, 29 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Represents cards which are normally holo. {{rar|Rare Holo}} cards are twice as rare as {{rar|Rare}} cards. They are also listed on Pokémon.com as Rare Holo. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 02:57, 2 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Minor style question ==<br />
<br />
Some of the articles on the new Pokémon-EX have {{TCG|Full Art card|Full Art}} linked twice, once in the main infobox and once in the gallery. Example is {{TCG ID|Dark Explorers|Kyogre-EX|26}}. Others, such as {{TCG ID|Dark Explorers|Darkrai-EX|63}}, only link to it in the infobox. Which would you prefer? --[[User:Politoed666|<span style="color:#00B7EB">''P''</span> <span style="color:#008080">''o''</span>]] [[User talk:Politoed666|<span style="color:#0095B6">''L''</span> <span style="color:#00CCCC">''i''</span>]] 17:48, 2 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would prefer a link in both. As the infobox one only appears every other hour, the gallery one should be there. I also never saw a problem with linking to the same article multiple times throughout, which other people seem to have a problem with. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 20:36, 2 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Agreed on that note. --[[User:Politoed666|<span style="color:#00B7EB">''P''</span> <span style="color:#008080">''o''</span>]] [[User talk:Politoed666|<span style="color:#0095B6">''L''</span> <span style="color:#00CCCC">''i''</span>]] 17:48, 11 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Space ==<br />
<br />
Uhm I was wondering, I saw that were I added space to the asterisk you removed it. The information sticking near to the asterisk is they way it should be done in TCG articles ?--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 17:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yep. Every article does it that way. They also don't have spaces directly underneath trivia before origin. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 18:30, 24 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Every article from the TCG right ? Because as far as I remember Deth left a message on a user's talk page about removing spaces from asterisk when in fact, space should be added.--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 18:46, 24 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes. Every article from the TCG. Please do not add them anymore ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 18:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::I will. But could I know why TCG is the only Project that doesn't comply with the asterisk space ? --[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 18:57, 24 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::Because of the way many articles are set up. The extra spaces become unnecessary and even sometimes problematic when there is a lot of text compromised into a small space, such as [[No.2 Trainer (Pokémon Card Game Official Tournament promo)|here]]. The TCG articles fit a very specific build when it comes to style, and no articles should ignore that style. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 19:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I see whay you did there. Good, thanks for the heads up !--[[User:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">--'''DJ'''</span>]][[User talk:DJWolfy|<span style="color:Blue;">'''Wolfy'''</span>]] 19:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== RE: Card Pokédex entries. ==<br />
<br />
Sorry, I noticed that too late. But I think the expression "comes from" is a bit inappropriate, because you can't know surely for what reason the card designers chose which entry. Theoretical it is also possible that the entries in Pokémon Platinum were already decided when they designed these cards like the cards from Freeze Bolt and Cold Flare already contain the entries from Black and White 2. So I personally would prefer the expression "This card's Pokédex entry is equal to the entry in ..." and then it would make sense to name later released games as well. However, that's a matter of opinion and if you want to keep the "comes from"-phrase, it's okay for me. <b style="text-shadow:0 0 1px#808,0 0 3px#808,0 0 5px#808;0 0 7px#808">''– [[User:shadowtweaker|<span style="color:black;">shadowtweaker</span>]]''</b> 08:44, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
:To be fair, the Freeze Bolt/Cold Flare cards have BW2 entries, but BW2 will be released June 23, and FBCF July 13. FBCF is supposed to be the unofficial first set of the Black 2 White 2 era of Japanese TCG. And, at the point where we start saying "equal to", we'd have things like Secret Wonders and Dark Explorers Venusaur saying "Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Black, and White", which I personally think is going a bit too far, considering if they decide to reuse old ones again and again, we'd have to go back and edit hundreds of pages. It may not be perfect, but I'd like to keep it the way it is for now. It could probably be brought up later, when there isn't anything else to focus on. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 08:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TCG sections on character pages ==<br />
<br />
I've gone ahead and implemented the template on [[Misty]] to see what you think before I update them on other character's pages. The changes fit nicely around the existing code so there is no effect on the main Pokémon TCG pages, and I think I've included everything necessary for current characters (apart from double Energies in the type column, which also needs looking at on the main setlist template). <span style="color:#0066FF">'''[[Surf (move)|~~]]'''</span>'''[[User:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#00CCFF">nuva</span>]]'''<span style="color:#0066FF">'''-'''</span>[[User_talk:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#0099FF">'''kal'''</span>]] 22:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Looks fine to me. Speaking of Double Energies, though, Politoed mentioned how some of the template can't handle energies that always provide two (specifically {{TCG|Dark Metal Energy}}) in decklists and setlists. I thought I'd mention that. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 22:12, 6 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Over Water ==<br />
<br />
So, here I am, helping, with whatever I can. :D<br />
:[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=all&search=%E3%81%BF%E3%81%9A%E3%81%8B%E3%81%91&fulltext=Search Twelve card pages] in total use みずかけ (mizu-kake). The pages give the official English names as Clamp Splash (1), Flipper Splash (1), and Rain Splash (10 times). However on the pages the Japanese name is translated consistently as "Over Water". <br />
:This is a mistranslation, {{tt|likely|It could also have come from 水かけ論 (mizu-kake-ron), an endless argument, literally translated 'to argue over water', however if this is the source, naming an attack just 'Over Water' gives a completely different impression.}} from that kakeru is a word akin to the English 'do', and can mean almost anything in context, including 'to set atop'... as well as things as far apart as 'to argue', 'to multiply' or 'to apply for insurance'.<br />
:However in this case a different meaning is intended for kakeru, as can be seen in the analogue attack for using sand, [[Sand-Attack]], すなかけ (suna-kake). Whatever media it's shown in, it involves flinging sand at the opponent. As such, while mizu-kake hasn't been shown in any visual media, it would likely involve flinging water at the opponent, which is what is reflected in the English translations: they all involve splashing the opponent with something. mizu-kake itself, is a shortening of the expression, [http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1MDJmizuwokakeru mizu o kakeru], to sprinkle/spray/splash/squirt water on something. As you can see from the four translations, a specific meaning is implied through kakeru in this case, to fling water in some fashion.<br />
:So, despite some attacks bearing odd names, there is no way that 'Over Water' could be the intended meaning, and it should be replaced by another translation. As for what, I won't attempt to force any translation, but I'd suggest 'Water Splash'. (After all, it's already used on Bulbapedia [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=%E3%81%BF%E3%81%9A%E3%81%8B%E3%81%91%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3&fulltext=Search as a translation for Panpour's species name], which turns out to be... mizu-kake Pokemon).<br />
Hope this helps~. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] ([[User talk:Bluesun|talk]]) 16:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:This is very helpful. Thank you! I will replace them right away. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 16:15, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Some more points I found looking through Freeze&Flare: <br />
:Burn Out's kana is given as ba-nauto, it should be ba-n'auto. <br />
:Celebi's Ability is likely 'Time [http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1MDJriko-ru Recall]' as opposed to Time Recoil. <br />
:Blastoise's ability, bakuryuu, is likely mistranslated, as ryuu can mean '(a water) current' as well as dragon, and that would make more sense. I'd suggest Vast Stream or Wide Stream, but couldn't be sure those translations are correct. <br />
:Piloswine's Quintuple Headbutt does too much damage, and Mamoswine's 'Frost Burn' is Frost Stone.<br />
:Zebstrika's Nitro Charge has 'nitro' written in hiragana instead of katakana (ニトロ not にとろ). <br />
:Golurk's Expert Punch should be Regression Punch (退化 not 大家, makes more sense with the effect).<br />
::That's all I could find~. [[User:Bluesun|Bluesun]] ([[User talk:Bluesun|talk]]) 17:35, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Thank you for all the corrections. I have since fixed them all. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 18:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==New Userpage Addition==<br />
<br />
Was wondering if you could please put [[User:HoennMaster/Iris's Dragonite|my new page]] on the template. Please and thanks! --[[User:HoennMaster|<font color="blue">Hoenn</font>]][[User talk:HoennMaster|<font color="green">Master</font>]] 20:24, 14 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Nevermind, someone else created this. --[[User:HoennMaster|<font color="blue">Hoenn</font>]][[User talk:HoennMaster|<font color="green">Master</font>]] 20:46, 14 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Technical Machine TS-1 Edit ==<br />
<br />
I apologize about undoing your previous edit. It looked fine in the page preview, but I guess that doesn't always yield the desired end result. I'll make sure to notify you if I see any problems with any of the TCG pages in the future.<br />
--[[User:Brendino|Brendino]] ([[User talk:Brendino|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Dragons Exalted ==<br />
<br />
For the cards that don't have scans up but have the numbers, should I add them in or wait for the scans? [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 04:08, 27 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
:The scans were procured illegally. We will not be updating any of the card information until Saturday, when the cards are supposed to be made available to the public. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 04:18, 27 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
Okay. [[User:G50|<span style="color:blue">''G''</span>]][[User talk:G50|<span style="color:orange">''50''</span>]] 04:19, 27 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Image from 2010 ==<br />
<br />
It may seem a bit strange to ask after nearly two years; but where are the Images of the only-GB-Pokémon from? There is at lest one occasion, where there is something strange: Vaporeon (GB1) seems to have other Energy Costs in the Image and the game - an admin from PokéWiki checked to put in the german game-text and found out, that the images Energy Cost is not the same as in the game. --[[User:Mecanno-man|<span style="background-color:blue;"><span style="color:white">mecanno-man]]</span></span><sup>[[user talk:Mecanno-man|<span style="background-color:red;"><span style="color:black">Discussion</span></span>]]</sup> 18:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Question concerning referencing fan sites, etc. ==<br />
<br />
I do sincerely apologize for not being completely clear on the Bulbapedia policy of referencing fan sites and especially using my site as a reference. But as such, I feel this brings up a question.<br />
<br />
Bulbapedia's FAQs state that it's against the rules to copy/steal info, etc from other sites, especially fan sites, as fan sites are not "reliable". You've also made that very clear to me, and I don't argue that. However, a lot of stuff in relevant TCG articles in Bulbapedia have data which came from my fan site, many of which I physically created myself but did NOT personally upload or physically add to Bulbapedia. Now I have absolutely NO problem with it being used here--as I'm glad my work can be enjoyed by others--and I even gave Archaic permission to use it (as stated on my talk page). Furthermore, I realize how ''extremely'' unreasonable it would be for me to ask Bulbapedia to remove all material and text that came from my fan site and ban anyone who uploaded it (as per the rules).<br />
<br />
However, even with my permission, this data DID come from a fan site, and there is no official sources which can be cited. As such, I think it is at least reasonable to cite where the data came from, at least in lieu of an official source, AND especially considering that enough admins felt that it was reliable ''enough''. But that's the thing, the rules aren't clear about what should be done in a situation like this (as it only states that info is not to be copied or stolen), and that it's the rules that matter most.<br />
<br />
I just want to be a rule-abiding contributor to Bulbapedia, that's all. I don't want to be a dick, I don't want to make waves, and I don't want to create trouble or drama. I just want to make sure I have a clear idea of what the rules are, AND that they're being fairly applied, especially to me, just so this kind of this won't happen again. As such, I appreciate any and all help you can give me to help me understand the rules, and I will be more than happy to accept the word of God from the Admins, especially Archaic. Thank you for your time! -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 22:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:You're frustration is understandable, as many of Bulbapedia's rules and policies aren't exactly up to date and as effective as one would hope. This is why it is so difficult to explain the do's and don'ts of a situation such as this.<br />
:There are a lot of things we have to look at. Not everything you explained here is completely truthful, and there are a lot of items we must consider here. Firstly, your "permission" you gave Archaic was made in April 2005, before there were even 200 users. You began adding things on your own accord 3 months earlier, which were many of the things you were attempting to reference a few days ago. Even after you gave permission, you continued making pages, such as {{TCG|Water}}, {{TCG|Base Set 2}}, and {{TCG|Gym Heroes}}. This was long long before we've tightened up any sort of rules for referencing here (even though they still need to be expanded and more concrete): it was over 7 years ago. Additionally, a lot of the information has lasted that long--meaning it has been long verified for some time now. Any false information would have been removed. Also, as the TCG has been so continuous and consistent, it is difficult to spend to necessary time extensively researching each set in order to verify everything that was written all those long years ago. Earlier sets are certainly in need of thorough fact checking. The current policies on not using information from other fansites, as they could be unreliable, is a rule that has [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause Grandfathered] many pre existing situations. Certainly, with about 22 thousand pages, not everything can be brought to a current standard right away. Many things will take time to bring up to code.<br />
:As you were the one adding much of the information from your fansite, there is not much that can be done in terms of sourcing it. If it was someone else who added the information, this would be a different story, but as it was you willingly doing it yourself, the information came from the contributor, Nick15, and not from any other website. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 03:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
:* Ah, OK, I see what you mean about me sourcing info which I already added myself. Bare minimum, it's redundant, seeing as I've already been credited as the person who wrote it. Furthermore, even if I wanted to be a complete ass and request that any material pulled from my site has been "stolen" and thus request that it be removed, I know I can't do anything about that which I've added myself (seeing as I've willingly released it as per Creative Commons license, plus I would be making the rather dubious claim that I stole from myself).<br />
::But you mentioned ''"[if] it was someone else who added the information, this would be a different story"''; there are several things that did come from my site which I did NOT add to Bulbapedia. For example, the logo for the Team Rocket set which I designed from scratch AND had a "Made from PA!" watermark on it which had been stripped by (I assume) the person who uploaded it. Therefore, even though I gave my permission to use this material--as in, with the "copy/stolen" rule in mind, I won't claim it was "copied/stolen"--is still was ''"someone else who added the information"''. In that case, what do you suggest should happen? I personally suggest a simple ''"this thing came from here"'' link, but obviously I'll have to leave it up to you to make the final decision.<br />
:* A second question then; you mention info that remains being verified... how does the verification process work? That is to say, there are bits that exist in the TCG articles which came from my site (whether I or someone else added it) which I based on my own personal experiences. Of course personal experiences may fly for a fan site, but not on a wiki. As such, is info verified through other person's experiences, or from other (fan?) websites which existed at the time (say, UPNetwork or Bulbagarden.com's archives)? Or is it just because--as you mentioned--the wiki is just too huge that it's hard to ensure 100% accuracy, and thus no one has gotten around to actually removing ''ALL'' unverified info? In that case, if it is established that there is no way to verify info outside of archives of fan sites from the time, is it to be ultimately removed?<br />
:*Finally, you brought up something which in turn reminded me of something that I asked Archaic about. Some time ago I emailed him asking what it would take to help write style guides for Bulbapedia (at least the TCG section), and he asked me to--among other things--talk to you about this. As such, because you mentioned that (the TCG) articles aren't completely "up to code", may I offer my services to help with writing the "code" that the TCG articles should be up to, as I understand that they themselves aren't up to date? Please let me know if this is something you could use; I went to school for technical writing and thus I would like to be useful to Bulbapedia in any way I can. (As in, I want my present actions to denote my current value, and not to rely on my past actions to do so.)<br />
::In any case, I once again appreciate your time and patience on this matter! -- [[User:Nick15|Nick15]] ([[User talk:Nick15|talk]]) 10:32, 20 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TCGEnergyCardInfobox ==<br />
<br />
Right, I've uploaded an updated template that more closely matches the current TCGTrainerCardInfobox. It can be found [[User:Nuva-kal/TCGEnergyCardInfobox|here]]. Let me know if there is anything that may want changing or added. I'll also look at adding the Plasma graphic you mentioned. Should the same graphic still appear in the TCGNote template even if it is appearing in the infoboxes? <span style="color:#0066FF">'''[[Surf (move)|~~]]'''</span>'''[[User:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#00CCFF">nuva</span>]]'''<span style="color:#0066FF">'''-'''</span>[[User_talk:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#0099FF">'''kal'''</span>]] 11:17, 5 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I've put in the Plasma box in the Energy template. This works fine with the Trainer and Pokémon card infoboxes, the latter appearing between the name and Energy symbol, but I haven't added them yet. Adding Plasma to the Trainer card infobox will also require another parameter since there are at least Item and Supporter cards that belong to them. <span style="color:#0066FF">'''[[Surf (move)|~~]]'''</span>'''[[User:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#00CCFF">nuva</span>]]'''<span style="color:#0066FF">'''-'''</span>[[User_talk:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#0099FF">'''kal'''</span>]] 14:51, 5 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Doesn't the Plasma Frigate Stadium also belong to Plasma? Sorry I stopped updating news. It was just becoming super stressful for me, and it is so much easier and more fun to just update the wiki than also constantly search for news all over the place. <br />
::The Energy Infobox looks pretty good. I'd love to see it in action before it is implemented. Can you also make an Energy Card Effect Template? One that looks similar to the Trainer one. I'm scared of updating the Energy Cards...there is so much research necessary in order to do them, and that isn't quite the challenge I am able to take on right now. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 18:22, 5 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::You and me both. Plus if you wanted to go down the route of naming the Basic Energy cards like Trainers, there will be so many redirects involved. Also, with the Plasma box, should it still appear in the TCGNote template even if it is appearing in the infoboxes? <span style="color:#0066FF">'''[[Surf (move)|~~]]'''</span>'''[[User:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#00CCFF">nuva</span>]]'''<span style="color:#0066FF">'''-'''</span>[[User_talk:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#0099FF">'''kal'''</span>]] 18:45, 5 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::It doesn't hurt.... ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 18:48, 5 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::I've uploaded some examples [[User talk:Nuva-kal/TCGEnergyCardInfobox|here]]. <span style="color:#0066FF">'''[[Surf (move)|~~]]'''</span>'''[[User:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#00CCFF">nuva</span>]]'''<span style="color:#0066FF">'''-'''</span>[[User_talk:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#0099FF">'''kal'''</span>]] 19:00, 5 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Do you ever get tired to adding things to your mainspacable list? ==<br />
<br />
Well too bad, because [[User:Chosen/Sandbox/List of Pokémon by Ransei Gallery order|I have a]] [[User:Chosen/Sandbox/List of Downloadable Tournaments|few more for you]]. – [[User:Chosen|<span style="color:#F85888">Chosen</span>]] <span style="color:#6890F0">of</span> [[User talk:Chosen|<span style="color:#F8D030">Mana</span>]] 17:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:Is there anything in particular that the first of those still needs? If not, move it. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 19:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::I wouldn't say so. Thanks for the OK. - [[User:Chosen|<span style="color:#F85888">Chosen</span>]] <span style="color:#6890F0">of</span> [[User talk:Chosen|<span style="color:#F8D030">Mana</span>]] 21:50, 17 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Fast/First ==<br />
<br />
No offense, but I don't really appreciate you telling me what a Japanese word can and cannot mean.<br />
<br />
In any case, it's supposed to be "first" because of the elongated vowel sound - "fast" would be ファスト, not ファースト.<br />
<br />
So I've made my case, would you mind explaining the specific reasons for using "fast"? <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 21:55, 24 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I'll e-mail you about it. Unless you jump on AIM so that we can talk privately. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 22:19, 24 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== #Switch Help ==<br />
<br />
Well, I've been trying to add a switch to [[Template:GlitchSpriteBox|this]] in [[User:Rsrdaman/sandbox|my sandbox]], so it can display 1 2 or 3 images, but I haven't ever done one before and I can't seem to get it to work. I've seen you edit a few templates and I'm wondering if you could help me with this at all, Thanks.--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 02:58, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:<nowiki>You're trying to get multiple outcomes from each switch. You can only get one of the outcomes each time you have a {{#switch:}} Also, any pipes (|) inside the switch need to be replaced with {{!}}, otherwise they are inidcating the next outcome. I'd recommend you try doing it with an {{#ifexpr:}} rather than a switch. Something along the lines of {{#ifexpr: {{fimagen|1}} < 2|display:none;}} inside the style tag in the cell formatting. That'll mean that the cell isn't displayed if the number of images is less than 2.</nowiki> <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 07:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::Ok, I added <nowiki>{{#ifexpr: {{{fimagen|1}}} < 2|| (Cell formatting)}}</nowiki>, but when I test it on the talk page it just acts if its just text. can you see if I missed anything?--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 22:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::You're putting it in the cell contents. You need to put it just inside the existing style=" tags. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 23:22, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::Like instead of <code><nowiki> {{#ifexpr: {{{fimagen|1}}} < 2||! style="background: ...</nowiki></code> put <code><nowiki>! style= {{#ifexpr: {{{fimagen|1}}} < 2||"background: #{{{{{disptype1...</nowiki></code> ? --[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 01:46, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::::The opening quote needs to be before the <nowiki>{{#ifeq</nowiki>, but yes. It needs to be done like I did it [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Template:TCGNote&diff=prev&oldid=1721471 here]. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:06, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::::::Alright, I figured it out. Thanks for the help Werd, I appreciate it.--[[User:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#000000">'''×Rsr'''</span>]][[User_Talk:Rsrdaman|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''daman×'''</span>]] 22:37, 29 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Boundaries Crossed ==<br />
<br />
I got a bunch of cards at prerelease today, and I can start filling in the card list/moving pages/filling in English flavor text... But where would you like me to start? <span style="border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;">[[User:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;">梅子</span>]][[User talk:Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sup>❀</sup></span>]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|<span style="color:#FF99CC;"><sub>✿</sub></span>]]</span> 23:14, 27 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I have the boxes and card lists for the two theme decks ({{TCG|IceShock}} & {{TCG|ColdFire}}) that I would like to enter, could you create the pages or give me the permission to create them? [[User:Pyrokld|Pyrokld]] ([[User talk:Pyrokld|talk]]) 04:15, 10 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I have them as well. Sorry I haven't gotten back to you about this. I'll finish them on my own, since you are a newer user and Bulbapedia has a system in place where newer users can't create pages. In order to, you'll have to either make more edits or be here a little bit longer. You haven't fulfilled one of these requirements, but once you do, you'll be able to. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 19:03, 14 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
::No worries, totally understandable, just thought if you had the time to create them but not enter the lists I could help out. ;-) [[User:Pyrokld|Pyrokld]] ([[User talk:Pyrokld|talk]]) 16:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Burger King ==<br />
<br />
Why does Mcdonalds get a TCG page and Burger King doesn't - This also makes it very difficult to find any information on the burger king cards. I believe this because they don't have there own set symbol, if that is so shouldn't we then link it to there own expansion as alternative promotional cards for there respective set. [[User:Dracospitfire|Dracospitfire]] ([[User talk:Dracospitfire|talk]]) 11:20, 22 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== JUMBO CARDS ==<br />
<br />
There should be a page with the list of all JUMBO Cards.... I think that would be a great idea. I am new, I hope I am not being to forward.[[User:Dracospitfire|Dracospitfire]] ([[User talk:Dracospitfire|talk]]) 11:20, 22 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I agree. It just involves a lot of research that is not easy to do at the moment. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 15:39, 22 December 2012 (UTC)<br />
==Project Pokémon==<br />
Hi. I was wondering if I could start a project : Project Pokemon. a project that where infomation about pokemon TCG online and stratiges to build strong decks. I play at the local hobbie shop and noticed the lack of data on real life decks and good stratiges to make them strong. That is where Project Pokemon comes in, to make articles about cards, decks, and good stratiges. I know pokemon.com is a sorce but the data is limited and only on like 2-3 card combos which is very sad because pokemon is more than that. please get back to me. <br />
It said to ask a staff member and I noticed you are online. do you have the power or know someone I could ask? Thank You! --[[User:Eatfish|Eatfish]] ([[User talk:Eatfish|talk]]) 19:09, 12 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The Pokémon Trading Card Game Online and deck archetypes both fall under the jurisdiction of {{bp|Project TCG}}. As there is a lot going on with the TCG at any given time, the online game and many of the deck archetypes of any given format typically fall to the wayside. As the competitive aspect of the trading card game is an continuously expanding and evolving entity, it is extremely difficult to write about. If you want to write pages, go right on ahead, but a project will not be necessary. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 21:17, 12 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
ok <br />
--[[User:Eatfish|Eatfish]] ([[User talk:Eatfish|talk]]) 21:20, 12 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TCG Moves ==<br />
<br />
Why did you revert me? The moves are in the games. 22:02, 24 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
:In order to have a standard, that page goes by the Japanese names of those attacks. The Japanese names show that they are infact not moves from the games. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 17:08, 25 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, okay, didn't know that. Apologies. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] ([[User talk:Drake Clawfang|talk]]) 19:13, 25 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TrollAndToad Images ==<br />
<br />
Duly noted, sorry about that. [[User:Exo|exosilver]] ([[User talk:Exo|talk]]) 01:40, 1 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: Speculation ==<br />
<br />
Hey, Mav. A while back, you posted on [[User talk:Mathfreak231|my talk page]] about undoing one of my contributions to a TCG card's trivia section because it was speculation.<br />
Is there some page that explains the fine line between speculation and non-speculation? Like on [[Dugtrio (Secret Wonders 24)]], the trivia seems to be speculation based on what you said, but it has been there since 2008. Thanks! [[User:Mathfreak231|--Mathfreak231]] ([[User talk:Mathfreak231|talk]]) 23:38, 2 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plasma Freeze list ==<br />
<br />
lol... You had to remove the obvious cards, didn't you? Like, what's wrong with including what we already know as obvious? What's gonna come after Exeggcute? Treecko? Leafeon? Or course is Exeggutor... (facepalm)...[[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 16:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I read your message. Sorry for having been rude before... I understand what you say, I just included those cards because I saw similar situations before and I thought it was okay... As for what I've been doing with other TCG pages, I can say I like to help in the TCG section, correcting small mistakes and updating the lists and all. I would like to do more actually but I haven't touched on some pages that need to be updated simply because I don't know what exact details I should add or remove. (Example: The Secret rares page, in japan the FA are secret rares but in the west they aren't. Do I leave them out of the list or do I also have to include them? And is the table template the same for other pages like the Full Arts page?). If you could tell me specifically what you guys want for each page that needs updating (Retro cards, Owner's Pokémon, etc.), I'll be happy to work on those pages. Also, I would like to suggest the idea of making a page listing all Plasma Pokémon cards. Currently, there's only a category, but I think a page with a list would be nice.[[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 05:28, 16 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Sure, I'd like to do it. It may take a while to update all those pages though. But, from what I noticed on the Item/Supporter/Stdium pages, reprints have their own entry instead of like, one card and all the releases together. Will I have to do it to the Pokémon lists too? I think it's more pratical to just keep one entry for each card and list all its releases together (like the way it is now)...[[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 15:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mainspace template ==<br />
<br />
Got some more stuff to add to the Mainspace template:<br />
* [[User:S2daam/Template:JapAnimeSeries]]<br />
* [[User:S2daam/Best Wishes Season 2]]<br />
* [[User:S2daam/Best Wishes Season 2: Episode N]]<br />
* [[User:S2daam/Best Wishes Season 2: Decorola Adventures|Best Wishes Season 2: Decolora Adventures]]<br />
Just so others aren't inclined to create some of them (although I don't think they will...) --[[User:S2daam|--samm :)]] ([[User talk:S2daam|talk]]) 12:05, 18 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mainspaceable userspace ==<br />
<br />
Hi, Nate! I had a quick-ish question for you about the rules of mainspaceable userspace... see, a user posted on [[Bulbapedia talk:Project Globe#Pokémon in Australia|Project Globe talk page]] a while back and showed they started a Pokémon in Australia article at [[User:Naze/Pokémon in Australia|here]]. I took a look at it recently and it more or less fits the quality standards for the other Project Globe articles for English-speaking countries, provided that [[Toasted TV]] and [[Network Ten]] get merged in with the anime section, as was the case for other articles like Canada, United Kingdom, and New Zealand. Otherwise it's a fine article and I'd like to see it mainspaced, except when I wrote to the user asking if it was ok to go ahead, they never wrote me back and they've been inactive since 2012!! so my question is, am I allowed to merge with the TV articles and mainspace it anyway, or do I have to wait to hear back from the user. I figured I'd ask you since mainspaceable userspace is kinda your thing. Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 22:47, 27 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Just mainspace it. No one is reading it if it is in the userspace. The purpose of my template was to publicize pages that get there anyway. I've never been one to wait for permission when concerning the userspace. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 05:31, 28 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Okay, thanks Nate! I went ahead and moved it over. Also if you don't mind can you add [[User:Zesty Cactus/South Africa|my own work-in-progress page]] to your template since i'm hoping someone with more expertise can help me out. *__* thanks again~ [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 20:00, 28 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::If you want someone to actually see it and help you out, shouldn't the mainspace be a better place for it? This "grooming" nonsense that people give as a reason why pages "''need''" to be in the userspace is utter garbage. If you want people to help out, move it to the mainspace and put the appropriate mainspace improvement tags on it. That'd be better than any possible template addition ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 19:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== TCG pages template. ==<br />
<br />
Sorry for only answering now. I've been really busy with something and I wasn't able to answer earlier. But I've been thinking about what you said. Personally, I prefer the current template/method of organization (one entry for each unique card with all its releases listed together...). But that's just my opinion. I think that making an entry for each individual release is kinda unnecessary... On the other hand, the Item/Supporter/Stadium template seems faster to edit. And the pokémon cards are not like the trainer cards which are always being reprinted in decks and all... It's your call. Whatever you decide, I'm fine. [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 15:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Yup, I get what you mean. That's a good ideia. But, just to be clear, tell me if I'm thinking right. From the following pages that need to be updated: "Box Topper", "Owner's Pokémon", "Retro card", and "Delta Species Pokémon"; "Box Topper" and "Retro card" will also use the Item template like the "Secret card" page, while "Owner's Pokémon" and "Delta Species Pokémon" will use the big block template, right? Also, the Retro card page has a column that says "Original Release". Should that be kept? It makes sense to have it but the template would have to be adjusted. Same thing for the Delta Pokémon page. It has a column with the regular type of the Pokémon and another column with the delta type. Wouldn't it be better to just use the type column of the big block template for each card as usual and forget the regular type column? [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 00:08, 2 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Cards related by illustration ==<br />
<br />
Regarding your edit summaries, which read: "This is not how these sections should be done because the card has nothing to do with the location. the artwork does. The card art is what should be incorporated into these pages" and "However, this is just to correct things temporarily"<br />
<br />
Am I right in assuming that this means that you (Head of TCG) do find the information I gathered valuable/worthy of being kept in the articles? In other words, would you like me to stop gathering such information? And what about the changes I made to the card articles? More or less the same questions can be asked for those.<br />
<br />
I'll take the liberty of questioning your judgment, in the form of a few points you may wish to consider:<br />
* In your argument, you're treating a card illustration as separate from the card (print!) it is featured on, when it is in fact an integral, defining part of it.<br />
* This way of listing cards is already done in other articles (the articles I consulted to see how Bulbapedia would like this to be done), sometimes supported by a "gallery", but not removed in favor of one.<br />
* Incorporating the card illustrations into the articles would require "creating" (cropping) and uploading many new images just for this purpose.<br />
* Lists are not only less work (images, as described above) and easier on the eyes (e.g. any of the lists I added compared to the layout of Kanto Gym Leader articles' Artwork sections) than "galleries", but are also more informative, and invite readers to visit Bulbapedia's TCG articles, rather than just look at an image.<br />
<br />
To be clear, I'm not at all against incorporating the illustrations into the articles (via "galleries"), but I do find it counterproductive to dismiss card listings in favor of these, due to the advantages described above. If necessary, the listings' wording and/or section titles can be changed to specify that the instances only pertain to card illustrations. [[User:Yvnr|Yvnr]] ([[User talk:Yvnr|talk]]) 11:06, 23 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:There are a few questions in the talk page message above that I am waiting for you to answer. [[User:Yvnr|Yvnr]] ([[User talk:Yvnr|talk]]) 15:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Oh, I know; I've been wanting to respond, I've just been thinking about the answer. Let me get back to you once Plasma Freeze stuff is done. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 16:15, 28 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Redirects ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong with the redirects. I've fixed redirects on other wikis, is this not done here? Because I was simply linking those pages correctly. -[[User:From Beyond the Stars|<font color ="#68E0D0">Stars</font>]] <sub>[[User talk:From Beyond the Stars|<font color ="#187868">talk</font></sub>]] 12:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I admire your initiative with taking on one of the behind the scenes wiki jobs that people looking for information don't think about. HOWEVER, there are certain guidelines and different practices here at Bulbapedia regarding redirects. For instance, on [[EP272]], there is a link to the [[Misty's Togepi]] redirect. This is done because mere linking to [[Misty's Togetic]] would contain spoilers in the link, and it would be inaccurate to link to Misty's Togetic, because the Pokémon known as "Misty's Togetic" did not appear in that episode. Thus, we link to the redirect in favor of accuracy. <br />
:Now, to the edits in question. The link titled "[[_____'s Oshawott (Outstanding Oshawott Promo)]]" represents this specific card's English release, and it is linked that way on all of the pages referencing the card's ''English'' release, or the card in general. The link titled "[[_____'s Oshawott (BW-P Promo)]]" represents the card's ''Japanese'' release, and is linked as such on any page referencing how the card was released in Japan. By changing the link [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Unnumbered_Promotional_cards_%28TCG%29&diff=prev&oldid=1892991 here] on {{TCG|Unnumbered Promotional cards|this list of Japanese promotional cards}}, you were implying ''by means of the link'' that the English card was released in Japan (which actually does happen in certain circumstances, which is why we need to differentiate), which is definitely not the case with this card. In favor of factual accuracy, we link to redirects. This is also why we link to the Japanese set name in reference to the Japanese expansion and set release.<br />
:Linking to redirects in these cases (and probably others...they just don't come to mind right now) is '''intentional'''. Now, don't think that every link to a redirect is this way. Many are mistakes and issues; what you are doing is appreciated. Just try your best not to become a mechanical robot when fixing these redirects... keep in mind the bigger picture about ''why'' the link may be this way. Hope this helps! And if you have any additional questions, don't hesitate to ask. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 15:34, 24 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Plasma Pokemon (TCG) ==<br />
<br />
Thanks. :) I've never contributed to a wiki before and am glad I did something. Is there anyone currently working on a page for Team Plasma Pokemon for the TCG, like how Dark Pokemon have their own page? [[User:ShinySephiroth|ShinySephiroth]] ([[User talk:ShinySephiroth|talk]]) 23:42, 24 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mainspace-able user subpages? ==<br />
<br />
I have a question if these could ever be mainspace pages, since I don't want the normal restriction on the things.<br />
*{{u|Pikachu Bros./Japan|Pokémon in Japan}} (although I'd need permission from electAbu{{tt|zz|not sure how many z's there are}})<br />
*{{u|Pikachu Bros./WebsiteSeason|List of episodes by Pokémon.com listings}} (if it was on mainspace it would probably need a better title)<br />
So if you put these to be on that {{u|Maverick Nate/Mainspace|top template}} on this page that would be great. But of course, if you don't, that's fine too.<br><br>Sincerely,<br>[[User:Pikachu Bros.|<span style="color:lightblue">Pikachu Bros.</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|<span style="color:red">talk</span>]])</small> 16:55, 2 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Just so you know, the second page you have is a duplicate of [[User:Thingamajig257/List of anime episodes by syndicated dub season]], which is more detailed. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#A70000">'''Snorlax'''</span>]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|<span style="color:#0000A7">'''Monster'''</span>]] 08:38, 3 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I reali{{tt|z|s}}e that, which is where I got the idea, but I made it because [[Pokémon.com]] has changed their number of episodes for each season, meaning his/hers is outdated. I will make a more detailed one in the future, when I have enough time to. [[User:Pikachu Bros.|<span style="color:lightblue">Pikachu Bros.</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Pikachu Bros.|<span style="color:red">talk</span>]])</small> 13:10, 3 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== File Extension "Problems" ==<br />
<br />
Yeah, sure, I'll change them to .jpg, oh holy master. Sorry about caring about lossless files and transparency, seeing as this site is so picky about such things elsewhere. [[User:Exo|exosilver]] ([[User talk:Exo|talk]]) 21:17, 5 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Sorry about the problems with you and Magnedeth regarding my "behavior". I'll work on reverting the edits and uploading my scans in .jpg format. [[User:Exo|exosilver]] ([[User talk:Exo|talk]]) 18:13, 6 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Re: Some notes to improve your editing ==<br />
<br />
Yeah, I noticed the same things as well. However, since the whole page was done without that link template, I though I'd keep up with the same and let someone else correct it. Sorry. --[[User:FinnishPokéFan92|FinnishPokéFan92]] ([[User talk:FinnishPokéFan92|talk]]) 18:55, 11 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Owner's Pokémon page ==<br />
<br />
Hi. As you probably already noticed, I've updated the Delta Species pokémon page and the Shining Pokémon page. Now I plan to update the Owner's Pokémon page, which is the last one that's missing the big block template. I have two questions though:<br />
*First, can I switch the order of some owner's to list them in a proper chronological order? For example, Ash's and May's Pokémon are listed after Holon's Pokémon when they should be listed before. And after those two, the owner's of the movie 5 VS deck are listed when they should be listed after Pokémon VS owner's... May I correct that? Other examples include Crystal Tower's Entei, Imakuni?'s Pokémon and Blank owner's Pokémon. I was thinking about leaving only the Blank Owner's Pokémon in the end of the page, and move the aforementioned ones to their respective chronological position. May I do it that way?<br />
*Second question: Do I do a table for each owner like it is shown in the current page, or can I put everything in the same table and simply divide each owner's pokémon.<br />
<br />
EDIT: Actually, never mind, I've been thinking about it and I think a table for each owner is the better solution... I also thought each table could have a set color instead of always changing the color (meaning, Brock's table always have the Fighting color instead of "Rainbow"). Of course, those who don't focus on a specific type, would keep the "Rainbow" code... What do you think? [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 22:45, 13 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, yes. Separate tables. Good idea. As for the order, yeah, feel free to correct it into chronological order. I think that's one of the leftover pages of "this doesn't exist. Let's get something set up!" instead of the idea now that things should be done well the first time. I haven't touched that page with the intent of improving it in a long time. Just to make simple fixes to whatever other problems I was workign on at the time, like categories or redircet links. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 16:48, 16 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
EDIT2: I just finished the Owner's Pokémon page (I think everything is in the right place). I would like to proceed in updating the Secret cards and Box topper pages but you told me you had to do the template first. Can you inform me when you do that so I can start editing those pages? [[User:Metalizard|Metalizard]] ([[User talk:Metalizard|talk]]) 21:55, 24 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I have forgotten about that. I will try to do that soon, but I will be rather busy for the next two weeks, so it may take some time. Additionally, Plasma and SP's are not Owner's Pokémon, so they shouldn't quite go on that page. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 04:04, 25 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Series naming conventions ==<br />
<br />
Hey, man. I'm getting up to the Neo Series for the Theme Decks. Just wondering what the best prefix would be for the images. I've just done 'E<number>' for the e Series, and plan to do 'LC1' for Legendary Collection. Do you think 'Neo<number>' and 'Original<number>' would suffice for the first two Series?<span style="color:#0066FF">'''[[Surf (move)|~~]]'''</span>'''[[User:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#00CCFF">nuva</span>]]'''<span style="color:#0066FF">'''-'''</span>[[User_talk:nuva-kal|<span style="color:#0099FF">'''kal'''</span>]] 14:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Everything else is abbreviated prefixes with all caps. Wouldn't it be better to do something like "O" and maybe "N" or "NEO"? ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 15:59, 17 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thanks for the heads-up! ==<br />
<br />
Yeah, it's going to take me a bit to change my editing habits (5+ year Wookieepedia veteran), but thanks for pointing those out to me. I'll keep that in mind when editing.<br />
<br />
Though, I do have a question regarding image sizes; when I change image sizes, it's merely for the sake of consistency. I notice that image sizes from page to page are not consistent, and while editing, I see sizes that are either not rounded off (301px) or vary from paragraph to paragraph, with no real rhyme or reason as to why. In preview mode, after making those changes, the images are of a consistent size and simply display better, so it's more of an aesthetic choice.<br />
<br />
However, if there is a reason behind the highly-variable image sizes that I'm simply not aware of, I will keep it in mind and try not to change them. <br />
<br />
Also, is alternating image alignment permitted? Say, having an image to the right, the next one to the left, the next to the right, etc? This is more of a stylistic choice that I've seen on numerous wikis, and while browsing articles, I'll notice some pages alternate image placement, while others will have them all stacked to the right. So, is there a protocol to image placement, or is it to the whim of the editor? I can understand placing images to the right in bulleted lists (left-aligned images run together with bullets and simply look ugly), so I usually don't touch those. But, throughout the article body, should the article have multiple images, should the placement be alternated, or should they all be on the right side? Thanks. [[User:Trak Nar|Trak Nar]] ([[User talk:Trak Nar|talk]]) 06:13, 31 May 2013 (UTC)<br />
*Okay, good to know. So, I'll go on the hunt for grammar and wording changes when I feel like making aesthetic changes. Also, to avoid further confusion, I'll make my edit summaries a bit more specific. "Formatting" is a catch-all term I use for when I make a number of different adjustments, such as spelling/grammar corrections, linking, and cosmetic changes in one edit. I shall dispense with that and be a bit more specific.<br />
<br />
:Though, I do want to clarify something... A few times, I've removed duplicate links. A subject would be linked in the intro and linked multiple within the article body. At times, I would see that subject linked multiple times in a section, so occasionally, when I would notice that, I would remove the duplicate links. I've only done this with duplicate links within a section, but left the links alone for additional sections, so long as the subject was linked only once per section. Since I'm still somewhat operating under the Wookieepedia MoS, I keep wanting to fix those duplicate links so that a subject is linked once in the intro and once in the article body. I was unable to find anything regarding linking in the MoS, so perhaps you could clear this up for me? [[User:Trak Nar|Trak Nar]] ([[User talk:Trak Nar|talk]]) 03:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Pokémon Card Fan Club ==<br />
<br />
Hi Nate, I picked up this magazine at a thrift shop a while back and I was wondering if you knew anything about it. It's called ポケモンカード ファンクラブ "Pokémon Card Fan Club" and it's published by Media Factory in September 1997. (People donate the darndest things to thrift stores) It has information about some cards, tournaments, game play, and biographies of some of the illustrators (including photos, so I was thinking of adding those photos to the respective illustrators' articles). You can see an image of the cover [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/zeldascousin/scan0019-7.png here] (it's volume two) anyway I was wondering if you knew any more about it if we wanted to maybe create an article about these...I figured you know way more about TCG than me so you'd have a good chance of knowing. Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 03:02, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Articles for everything! There are something like 5 volumes to this magazine. I'd love to write articles on all the TCG publications: books, magazines, and whatnot. There are a lot of them. I just don't really know anything about them, and with the constant card creation, magazines from 15 years ago is somewhat low on the priority list...especially with the amount of research and favor grabbing it would take to get the information within the issues. You've got the issue in your hand. Feel free to create whatever you can over it. [http://park3.wakwak.com/~pokepale/books/no/6_1.htm I just found this Pokémon Book List] from a quick google search looking for some quick info on the magazine. It seems to have the dates of each issue. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 03:15, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Awesome! I'll get started on it - I'm used to starting articles on limited information from all my manga tings, so I'll at least get a stub up there with what I can get out of the magazine I have. Thanks for the link. On the topic of TCG publications, I also have a TCG strategy guide for {{TCG|Team Rocket}} (it's like {{TCG|Gym Heroes Strategy Guide}}) which I can write an article for eventually. Also would you consider an article for a magazine called "Pojo's Unofficial Pokémon News & Price Guide Monthly". it was a magazine I read as a kid, it was similar to Beckett's but it was better cause they had strategies for deck archetypes, translations of Japanese cards, and other random articles about the anime and merchandise. Don't know how well-known it was though. Thanks again!! [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 03:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't see why any of these publications ''aren't'' notable. You have full reign with these publication articles. They aren't something I will be able to research for a while, so whatever you can gather will be awesome! I'll try to further your progress sometime in the future. I'll add it to my [[User:Maverick Nate/TCG Progress Report|Progress Report]] next time I edit that thing. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 03:30, 3 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Hey Nate, quick question about the TCG strategy guides. I noticed in the {{TCG|Gym Heroes Strategy Guide}} article that somebody made red links for all the deck configurations in the book. Are these articles you would want created? Cause if so I could do the same for the {{TCG|Team Rocket Strategy Guide}} and make articles for those respective decks. Thanks, [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 14:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'd love if they were created! Haha. I've been riding Politoed666's butt for about 4 years to create those, since he claims he has that guide. If you have it too, I'd love to see them created. If you could do scans of all relevant information over 1 of the decks in one of those books and email them to me, I'd like to see it (in order to see what info would be good to get onto a page. I've never seen an actual copy ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 22:50, 4 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Hi Nate, not sure if you received my email yet but there is an image of one of the pages [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/zeldascousin/IMAG14461.jpg here]. I don't have the Gym Heroes book unfortunately, just the Team Rocket one. :( I did look it up online and it was a little pricey from Amazon Canada BUT i found out a Gym Challenge one existed and it was very cheap, so I ordered it!! Let me know what kind of information you would like in the articles and I will do them. Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 03:00, 6 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, I read you email. I just haven't been able to reply. I think there should be a sentence intro, a description section contain the paragraphs from the book, and the deck list. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 14:04, 6 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Hi Nate, thanks for the response, sorry if I've been pestering you. I did {{TCG|Easy-to-Build Colorless Deck}}, either edit the article and/or let me know if I did anything wrong or if it should be categorised differently or anything. Otherwise, I'll create the rest based on this one. Sorry if I did a bad job, you can tell I don't write much TCG probably ^^' gives me a little insight into how hard it must be to keep up on it though haha. Anyway ya just let me know anything I need to know so I can get to finishing the rest of them :) [[Special:Contributions/Zesty Cactus|--]][[User:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#006400">'''Zesty'''</span>]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|<span style="color:#3CB371">'''Cactus'''</span>]] 04:11, 11 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Nah, don't worry. You did an excellent job. Most of the TCG editing is being able to transcribe text, translate things, and keeping new pages consistent with what has been released before. If there's any additional categorization that needs to happen down the road, we can worry about that later. The categorization for Decks/Theme Decks/Half Decks/Quarter Decks, and other releases/suggested decklists/tournament decks needs redone anyway. It's as great a job as possible at the moment. Keep it up. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 00:54, 16 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Another potentially mainspaceable article ==<br />
<br />
It was brought up on the {{DL|Talk:Mew (Pokémon)|move tutors|talk page for Mew}} that the list of special Move Tutors that don't teach to Mew is a bit unwieldy in the article. Since (in my opinion) these Move Tutors are a fundamentally distinct subset from Move Tutors in general, I drafted [[User:Pumpkinking0192/Special Move Tutor moves|an article for them]] in my userspace in the hopes that we'd be able to say "Mew can learn all Move Tutor moves except X subset" instead of having to list them all out. Is this a reasonable topic for an article, or is it too fanony of a distinction being made? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:32, 27 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Double Colorless Energy (Reshiram EX Strength Deck 18) ==<br />
<br />
The reason why I made the redirect, was that on this [[Zekrom-EX_Battle_Strength_Deck_(TCG)|page]], it was like that. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:47, 3 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I see why you deleted the redirect, sorry about that. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 03:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Thank you for creating it, however. It reminded me that I was in the middle of making those changes since almost six months ago! ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 04:03, 3 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Just another note while I have you here... make sure that you aren't removing links from the wanted pages simply because they aren't linked to by the mainspace. The occasional significant page may only be linked to by the talkspaces and whatnot, because people are discussing its creation. Sometimes, it is necessary to look at the bigger picture of why the link is on the wanted pages to begin with. Spelling mistakes from the userspace are perfectly wonderful to remove; however, if the link reflects some future plans someone is having, that sort of thing should stay ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 04:07, 3 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::I will keep that in mind for next time, thanks. — [[User:Reshi643|<span style="color:#7038F8">Reshi</span>]][[User talk:Reshi643|<span style="color:#F08030">643</span>]] 04:18, 3 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Adding a Devolution switch to the PokémonInfobox template ==<br />
<br />
Hey, Maverick Nate. I was wondering if you might be able to add something to the PokémonInfobox template. I know that there is some work already going on due to the Mega Evolutions, but I was wondering if the template could also support article from the Pokémon Pocket Monsters manga, which currently use a workaround for evolution. I know that there are not many articles for it, but I believe it would help to improve the appearance of those articles and might be useful in the future. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 04:18, 11 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Let me talk it over with the staff in charge of making the infobox happen and I will get back to you. ''[[User:Maverick Nate|<sup style="color:#00008B;">'''Maverick'''</sup>]][[User talk:Maverick Nate|<sub style="color:#00008B;">'''Nate'''</sub>]]'' 22:50, 11 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Alright, thank you for doing so. --[[User:Super goku|Super goku]] ([[User talk:Super goku|talk]]) 04:12, 12 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Spambot==<br />
I found [[User talk:SonyaBauer|one that escaped to the Recent Changes page trap]]. You're active now, so... [[User:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:red">'''オリ'''</span>]][[User talk:TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:green">'''ジ'''</span>]][[Special:Contributions/TheOriginalOne|<span style="color:blue">'''ナル'''</span>]] <small>TheOriginalOne</small> 19:07, 14 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Plasma Blast "TMs"==<br />
I'm not sure why you reverted my edit. There are five tools in the set. Three of them - Silver Bangle, Silver Mirror, and Reversal Trigger - are ordinary tools. I assume you're referring, then, to the other two. G Scope and G Booster have nothing to do with TMs. They're (loosely) based on Genesect's signature hold items in the games. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 09:51, 24 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Plasma_Blast_(TCG)&diff=1957611Plasma Blast (TCG)2013-08-23T23:24:28Z<p>Viskiv: The expansion does not include any TMs.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ExpansionPrevNext| prev=Plasma Freeze | next=Legendary Treasures }}<br />
{{TCGExpansionInfobox<br />
| setname = Plasma Blast<br />
| jasetname = メガロキャノン<br />
| transsetname = Megalo Cannon<br />
| setsymbol = yes<br />
| setlogo = PlasmaBlastEnglishLogo.png<br />
| encards = 105<br />
| jacards = 86<br />
| ensetnum = 57<br />
| enrelease = August 14, 2013<br />
| jasetnum = 54<br />
| deck1 = {{tcg|Mind Wipe}}<br />
| deck1type = {{e|Grass}} {{e|Psychic}}<br />
| deck2 = {{tcg|Solar Strike}}<br />
| deck2type = {{e|Fire}} {{e|Water}}<br />
| jarelease = March 15, 2013<br />
| prevset = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| japrevset = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| japrevsetname = Spiral Force/Thunder Knuckle<br />
| nextset = EX Battle Boost<br />
| janextset = EX Battle Boost<br />
| janextsetname = EX Battle Boost<br />
|}}<br />
'''Plasma Blast''' (Japanese: '''メガロキャノン''' ''Megalo Cannon'') is the name given to the 10th main expansion of cards from the English Black & White Series of the Pokémon Trading Card Game. The Japanese release is the ninth of the BW era.<br />
<br />
==Information==<br />
'''Plasma Blast''' and the Japanese equivalent '''Megalo Cannon''' feature the debut of {{p|Genesect}} in the [[Pokémon Trading Card Game]], as well as [[Team Plasma]], their Pokémon, and for the first time since their debut in {{TCG|Plasma Storm}}, cards designed to specifically counter Team Plasma. Along with the typical Pokémon and {{TCG|Trainer card}}s, Megalo Cannon sports {{TCG|Pokémon-EX}} cards, {{TCG|Ace Spec card}}s, a {{TCG|Special Energy card}}, {{TCG|Full Art card}}s, and [[Shiny Pokémon|Shiny]] {{TCG|Secret card}}s, totaling 86 cards. The set was released on March 15th, 2013 in Japan accompanied by the {{TCG|Blastoise + Kyurem-EX Combo Deck}}.<br />
<br />
In order to help defend against Team Plasma's onslaught, [[Unova]] champion [[Iris]] is present alongside [[Caitlin]], a member of the [[Unova]] [[Elite Four]]. Six {{TCG|Pokémon-EX}} are included: {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|9}}, {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|51}}, {{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kyurem-EX|30}} and Team Plasma's {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|10}}, {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|53}}, and {{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|54}}. Many of the Pokémon present are not from [[Generation V]], but instead are Pokémon from older Generations, some of which not featured in the Card Game since the Diamond & Pearl Series. <br />
<br />
Megalo Cannon is only the third set of the BW Era to feature [[Fossil]]s, the first two being {{TCG|Red Collection}} and {{TCG|Dark Rush}}. {{p|Archen}} and {{p|Tirtouga}} are given their second cards, while {{p|Lileep}} is given its first printing as a {{TCG|Restored Pokémon}}. {{TCG|Plume Fossil}} and {{TCG|Cover Fossil}} are reprinted, and a new fossil Trainer card, {{TCG|Root Fossil Lileep}} is included in favor over the old {{TCG|Root Fossil}} in order to prevent confusion over how the card should work.<br />
<br />
A special promotional card was given to those who purchased a booster box of Megalo Cannon in stores. This promotional card was {{TCG ID|BW-P Promo|Porygon-Z|208}}, a reprint with new artwork of the same Pokémon in the expansion.<br />
<br />
==Card list==<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="{{{class|}}} multicol" style="background:{{{bgColor|transparent}}}; width:{{{width|100%}}};"<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Plasma Blast|tablecol=2b96c4|bordercol=531872|cellcol=531872|rarity=yes|symbol=no}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|1/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Surskit|1}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|2/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Masquerain|2}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|3/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lileep|3}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|4/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Cradily|4}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|5/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tropius|5}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|6/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Karrablast|6}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|7/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Shelmet|7}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|8/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Accelgor|8}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|9/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion-EX|9}}|Grass||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|10/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect|10}}|Grass||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|11/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect-EX|11}}|Grass||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|12/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Larvesta|12}}|Fire||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|13/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Volcarona|13}}|Fire||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|14/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Squirtle|14}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|15/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Wartortle|15}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|16/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Blastoise|16}}|Water||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|17/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lapras|17}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|18/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Remoraid|18}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|19/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Octillery|19}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|20/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Suicune|20}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|21/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Snorunt|21}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|22/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Glalie|22}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|23/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Froslass|23}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|24/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Relicanth|24}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|25/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Snover|25}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|26/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Abomasnow|26}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|27/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tirtouga|27}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|28/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Carracosta|28}}|Water||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|29/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ducklett|29}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|30/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kyurem-EX|30}}|Water||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|31/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Tynamo|31}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|32/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Eelektrik|32}}|Lightning||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|33/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Eelektross|33}}|Lightning||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|34/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Drifloon|34}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|35/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Drifblim|35}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|36/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Uxie|36}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|37/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Mesprit|37}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|38/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Azelf|38}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|39/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Munna|39}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|40/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Musharna|40}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|41/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Sigilyph|41}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|42/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Solosis|42}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|43/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Duosion|43}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|44/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Reuniclus|44}}|Psychic||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|45/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golett|45}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|46/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Golurk|46}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|47/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machop|47}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|48/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machoke|48}}|Fighting||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|49/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machamp|49}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|50/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Machamp|50}}|Fighting||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|51/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Throh|51}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|52/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Sawk|52}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|53/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Archen|53}}|Fighting||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|54/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Archeops|54}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|55/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Houndour|55}}|Darkness||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|56/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Houndoom|56}}|Darkness||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|57/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Aron|57}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|58/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Lairon|58}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|59/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Aggron|59}}|Metal||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|60/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Jirachi-EX|60}}|Metal||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|61/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Escavalier|61}}|Metal||Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|62/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Bagon|62}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|63/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Shelgon|63}}|Dragon||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|64/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Salamence|64}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|65/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dialga-EX|65}}|Dragon||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|66/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Palkia-EX|66}}|Dragon||Rare Holo ex}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|67/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Axew|67}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|68/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Fraxure|68}}|Dragon||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|69/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Haxorus|69}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|70/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Druddigon|70}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|71/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Kangaskhan|71}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|72/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon|72}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|73/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon2|73}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|74/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Porygon-Z|74}}|Colorless||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|75/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Teddiursa|75}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|76/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ursaring|76}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|77/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Chatot|77}}|Colorless||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|78/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Caitlin|78}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|79/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Cover Fossil|79}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|80/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Energy Retrieval|80}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|81/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Iris|81}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|82/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Plume Fossil|82}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|83/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Pokémon Catcher|83}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|84/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Professor Juniper|84}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|85/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Rare Candy|85}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|86/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Reversal Trigger|86}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|87/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Root Fossil Lileep|87}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|88/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Silver Bangle|88}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|89/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Silver Mirror|89}}|Item|Tool|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|90/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Ultra Ball|90}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|91/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Plasma Energy|91}}|Energy|Colorless|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|92/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|G Booster|92}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|93/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|G Scope|93}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|94/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Master Ball|94}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|95/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Scoop Up Cyclone|95}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|96/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion-EX|96}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|97/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Genesect-EX|97}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|98/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Jirachi-EX|98}}|Metal||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|99/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dialga-EX|99}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|100/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Palkia-EX|100}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|101/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Iris|101}}|Supporter||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|102/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Exeggcute|102}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|103/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Virizion|103}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|104/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Dusknoir|104}}|Psychic||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|105/101|{{TCG ID|Plasma Blast|Rare Candy|105}}|Item||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=531872}}<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
{{Setlist/header|title=Megalo Cannon|tablecol=dcdaff|bordercol=c2a853|cellcol=c2a853|rarity=yes|symbol=yes|image=SetSymbolMegalo Cannon.png}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|001/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Surskit|1}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|002/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Masquerain|2}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|003/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lileep|3}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|004/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Cradily|4}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|005/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tropius|5}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|006/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Karrablast|6}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|007/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Shelmet|7}}|Grass||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|008/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Accelgor|8}}|Grass||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|009/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|9}}|Grass||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|010/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|10}}|Grass||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|011/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Larvesta|11}}|Fire||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|012/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Volcarona|12}}|Fire||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|013/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lapras|13}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|014/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Remoraid|14}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|015/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Octillery|15}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|016/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Snorunt|16}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|017/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Glalie|17}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|018/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Relicanth|18}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|019/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Snover|19}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|020/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Abomasnow|20}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|021/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tirtouga|21}}|Water||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|022/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Carracosta|22}}|Water||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|023/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Tynamo|23}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|024/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Eelektrik|24}}|Lightning||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|025/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Eelektross|25}}|Lightning||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|026/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Drifloon|26}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|027/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Drifblim|27}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|028/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Uxie|28}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|029/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Mesprit|29}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|030/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Azelf|30}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|031/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Munna|31}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|032/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Musharna|32}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|033/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Sigilyph|33}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|034/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Solosis|34}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|035/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Duosion|35}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|036/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Reuniclus|36}}|Psychic||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|037/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Golett|37}}|Psychic||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|038/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Golurk|38}}|Psychic||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|039/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machop|39}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|040/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machoke|40}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|041/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Machamp|41}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|042/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Throh|42}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|043/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Sawk|43}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|044/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Archen|44}}|Fighting||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|045/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Archeops|45}}|Fighting||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|046/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Houndour|46}}|Darkness||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|047/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Houndoom|47}}|Darkness||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|048/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Aron|48}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|049/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Lairon|49}}|Metal||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|050/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Aggron|50}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|051/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|51}}|Metal||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|052/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Escavalier|52}}|Metal||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|053/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|53}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|054/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|54}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|055/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Axew|55}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|056/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Fraxure|56}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|057/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Haxorus|57}}|Dragon||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|058/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Druddigon|58}}|Dragon||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|059/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon|59}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|060/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon2|60}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|061/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Porygon-Z|61}}|Colorless||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|062/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Teddiursa|62}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|063/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Ursaring|63}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|064/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Chatot|64}}|Colorless||Common}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|065/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Root Fossil Lileep|65}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|066/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Plume Fossil|66}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|067/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Cover Fossil|67}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|068/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Silver Bangle|68}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|069/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Silver Mirror|69}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|070/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Reversal Trigger|70}}|Item||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|071/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Iris|71}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|072/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Caitlin|72}}|Supporter||Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|073/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Scoop Up Cyclone|73}}|Item||Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|074/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|G Scope|74}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|075/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|G Booster|75}}|Item|Tool|Rare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|076/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Plasma Energy|76}}|Energy|Colorless|Uncommon}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|077/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion-EX|77}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|078/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Genesect-EX|78}}|Grass||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|079/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Jirachi-EX|79}}|Metal||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|080/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dialga-EX|80}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|081/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Palkia-EX|81}}|Dragon||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|082/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Iris|82}}|Supporter||SuperRare Holo}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|083/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Exeggcute|83}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|084/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Virizion|84}}|Grass||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|085/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Dusknoir|85}}|Psychic||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/entry|086/076|{{TCG ID|Megalo Cannon|Rare Candy|86}}|Item||Ultra-Rare Rare}}<br />
{{Setlist/footer|cellcol=dcdaff}}<br />
{{Col-2}}<br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Project TCG notice}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{TCG Releases|BW}}<br />
<br />
<br />
[[de:Megalo Cannon (TCG)]]<br />
[[ja:ポケモンカードゲームBW 拡張パック メガロキャノン]]<br />
[[zh:巨大加农（TCG）]]<br />
[[zh:Plasma Blast（TCG）]]</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950384Talk:Base stats2013-08-10T06:16:24Z<p>Viskiv: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I absolutely disagree. The pages were where they were before because nobody took the time to notice that an official term had been created; you can't argue that things should stay the same because everyone used to be okay with the situation. The situation has changed: the values and the terminology for them are both becoming more visible in official media, which means it is becoming more urgent for us to use the official terms. In adopting new terminology, Bulbapedia is not a follower of the whims of the fan community, but a leader in adopting official terms ''regardless of their popularity or lackthereof''. We are not Wikipedia and, unlike them, we do not go by common names when we are aware that they differ from official names. The values formerly known as EVs are "base stats". Period. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Nobody ever noticed, in ten years, that EVs had been referred to as base stats in-game? That doesn't seem very plausible. My argument is not even remotely close to being based on "things should stay the same because everybody used to be okay with it", again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't said. I brought up the point that the community has been using EVs for ten years despite it being officially referred to as base stats because you seemed to assume, earlier in the discussion, that it was a given that the community would eventually adopt the "new" terminology. After that point, you go back into suggesting that we should use official terms just because they're official without explaining why it's better, which, again, is just bureaucratic inefficiency that leads to a lesser quality. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::It's entirely plausible and also ''true'' that nobody noticed, or at least nobody spoke up to bring it to the attention of the rest of us. Since the new term will be used ''in-game'' and the old one has never been, of ''course'' it's a given that the community will eventually adopt the new terminology, because otherwise no newbies will be able to know what anybody's talking about. I cannot fathom why you are so against following policy when doing so will not be harmful at all. Official name with a disambiguating note at the top. How is that not inherently better than an unofficial name? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Once again - base stats has been used in-game for ''ten years''. ''How'' is it a given that the community will adopt it this generation, when they haven't for the last three generations that it's been used in-game? Your assertion that it's a fact that nobody noticed for ten years is frankly absurd. It's also absurd that you suggest no new players are capable of finding out what people are talking about when they refer to EVs, considering this hasn't changed in ten years. When players go to learn about the hidden values that affect their stats, it's much easier for them to learn what they are when everything refers to them by one name, instead of every single person and website except one referring to them by one name while one particular website refers to them by a completely different term that means the opposite and also describes the value inaccurately. That is why it's worse - it causes so much more confusion than just having the page under Effort values does. If the community does shift to using base stats as the term for EVs with a new term for base stats, then I would absolutely agree with you - but just assuming that it's a given when it hasn't yet happened after ten years and making changes that will cause confusion now based on that assumption is not something I can agree with. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
I am for the move. Bulbapedia should always reflect the current, official terminology used. The community will adapt to the official terms as they always do. There's no reason to keep the page at an inaccurate title simply on the basis that is has been used for a long time. Things change, plain and simple. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You are ignoring my points in exactly the same way as Pumpkinking0192... you say, as if it were a fact, that "the community will adapt to the official terms as they always do" - but the only adaptation that the community has made to this official term over the past ten years is to completely disregard it and instead use a term that actually makes sense. And, yet again, the argument here is ''not'' to keep it just because it's been this way for a long time, but to keep it because changing it under these circumstances will only cause a lot of unnecessary confusion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:32, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::You're ignoring our point that "base stats" is canon and "EVs" is not. Canon is inherently superior to non-canon. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[Usertalk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:37, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Canon is not inherently superior to non-canon in all situations without any consideration to context. I've asked you to explain ''why'' it's better in this specific case. I've given three points as to ''why'' it's not, but you seem to be incapable of explaining why it's better. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, it is inherently superior in all situations on Bulbapedia. If we can use a non-canon term when a canon one exists, we can just name any page anything we want. Anarchy! This is a professional-level wiki, not just any old fansite. We have standards. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:02, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::I should point out that this is the first time that they've been referred to in more than just passing on an item description as base stats and, from the sounds of things, this will be the first time that the games themselves go into detail about them. It's something that Game Freak clearly want to start making more available to a wider audience, meaning that this is really the first time that the term has been all that relevant. The fact that there was already a fan meaning for base stats is likely a reason that people didn't make the change before now, though given that the term is clearly going to be used more often from official sources and within the fanbase (newer players), it seems odd to me to not make the change now. Besides, all links to EVs will still redirect to the page, so it shouldn't be nearly as confusing as you're making it out to be. This isn't about being better, it's about being correct. - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:09, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
Hold on. What if they're not referring to EVs? What if they're just referring to base stats and how they can be increased (just like what the descriptions for the Vitamins etc say)? Here's how I see it:<br />
<br />
From the "Understanding Stats" page:<br />
:"''The rate at which these stats will grow depends on an underlying set of stats called base stats. Each of the six main stats has its own base stat.''"<br />
That's not talking about EVs, that's talking about base stats. The Super Training page mentions how a Pokemon can increase its base stats (not its stats, but the actual underlying base stats) with Super Training. It does not say something like "with Super Training, a Pokemon can gain certain points called base stats that increase its stats". It simply says that their base stats can be raised, not exactly ''what'' raises them (again, just like the Vitamin descriptions etc).<br />
<br />
From the Effort-o-Meter section on the "Super Training" page:<br />
:"''Each Pokémon has some stats that will grow more easily than others and some stats that will take more work to raise. The inside (green) part of the Effort-o-Meter graph shows the stat levels relevant to each Pokémon species. The outside (yellow) part of the graph shows the base stat increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training.''"<br />
The green part is a Pokemon's base stat, and the yellow part is the base stat increases. That is, the yellow part shows how many effort values the Pokemon has gained, it's just not mentioned by name. To sum it up, I think Nintendo is just not using a name for what we know as "Effort Values", they just use the term "base stat increases", '''with "increases" ''being'' the "effort values"'''. I therefore think the term "effort values" should stay and Base Stat not moved. Or, if anything, have Effort Values moved to something like "Base Stat increases". [[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] ([[User talk:Angela-Samshi|talk]]) 01:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The use of the term "stat levels" in the Effort-o-Meter makes it clear that they've now renamed both things, so leaving "base stats" at its current location is not an option. You've raised a valid point, though; with this new information, it seems like "base stats" are now the term Nintendo's using for the combined "stat levels" + "base stat increases"/"EVs"/whatever. Nintendo's not being too clear on this, though. Maybe "base stats" should be an umbrella/disambiguation page directing users to "stat levels" and whatever the term we use for EVs is? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Personally I took the "increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training" to imply that the meter shows the base stats gained from Super Training only more than it being than what you've suggested. Besides, while base stat increases is hardly eloquent, it could just as easily have been meant to be referring to increases from 0 base stats for all we know. - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:53, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::Addressing this bit from Pumpkinking0192...<br />
::::::"Yes, it is inherently superior in all situations on Bulbapedia. If we can use a non-canon term when a canon one exists, we can just name any page anything we want. Anarchy! This is a professional-level wiki, not just any old fansite. We have standards." <br />
:::::This is a blatant strawman argument if I've ever seen one. I'm starting to believe this is intentional - this is the third time you've addressed an argument I never made while completely ignoring the argument I did make. I gave several reasons as to why, in this particular instance, it would be better for Bulbapedia to retain the current names. The only claim you've even attempted to make to explain why it would be better to use the official term was that you assumed that it was a given that the community would move to the "new" terminology that's been around for ten years and apparently just wasn't noticed before now, and beyond that questionable assumption it's been nothing but "official is better no matter what, because I say it is". If that's the best explanation you can offer up, have fun with your "standards" - personally, I prefer a higher standard of encyclopedia quality over a higher standard of bureaucratic rule enforcement, but that's just me. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 05:31, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's not just me who says official is better. Look at both of the staff members who have posted on this page: Funktastic, a Junior Administrator, says, "''We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom.'' [...] ''The official term should always take precedence.''". Crystal Talian, an Administrator, says, "''Bulbapedia should always reflect the current, official terminology used. The community will adapt to the official terms as they always do.''" This is a matter of Bulbapedia policy, not something to be messed around with on a whim because some guy on a talk page can use pretty rhetorical terms to try to convince everyone that their preferred fanon term is better. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:42, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::And they, too, never addressed my points nor provided a reason as to ''why'' official is better in this scenario. I brought this up and backed it with logical reasoning because I feel it is better for the quality of Bulbapedia - I am not acting "on a whim". I liked the part where you attacked a strawman and when I called you out on it, you dismissed it as a "pretty rhetoric term". I'll take using "pretty rhetoric terms" over using logical fallacies like you do. Even still you don't address ''why'' the official term would be better. It is clear to me that you have no intentions of doing so, so I will take my leave from this conversation, since we are aiming for incompatible goals. My final thoughts on the subject... I did provide a quote from Wikipedia above which explains, quite excellently, the concept of "Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy" - yet you are still interested only in enforcing policy to the letter with no consideration for circumstance, ostensibly in the name of professionalism. I guess Bulbapedia is a cut above Wikipedia when it comes to being a professional encyclopedia. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 06:15, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Target title for this page===<br />
:''Please use the above section for discussion on '''whether''' to move the page. This section is for '''what''' the page currently titled "base stats" should be moved to, '''assuming it is moved'''.''<br />
SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats". My best idea is "base stats (fan term)", although I'd prefer not to need parenthetical disambiguation if we can help it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd like to wait until we have a clear official term, if there is one. If not, I think "Species stats" is the most reasonable and closest to what was used on the official site. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::[http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/whats_new/super_training/ New page!] ''"The inside (green) part of the Effort-o-Meter graph shows the stat levels relevant to each Pokémon species. The outside (yellow) part of the graph shows the base stat increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training."''<br />
<br />
::What the fans once called base stats are now officially known as '''stat levels''', it would seem. That means that we can move this page to Stat levels and move Effort values to Base stats, yes? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::That sounds canonical to me. Let's move base stats to stat levels. For the record, we also need to fix instances of "stat levels" where people have loosely used it to refer to stat modifiers throughout the wiki. See my response to Angela-Samshi in the above section regarding EVs → base stats. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::From my reading it's not clear whether Nintendo is using it as an actual term, or merely as a loose description. I believe that there is still too much ambiguity to fix that as the name at this point. [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 02:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'm going to disagree with Blazios. [http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/pokemon_101/stats/ This page] simply calls them '''stats'''. '''Stat levels''' sounds like something that isn't outside the Effort-O-Meter's graph, so I serious doubt stat levels is the official term. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 02:51, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::Actually, I misread (tired, sorry), but I stand by that they shouldn't be called stat levels unless the term is used more times than just once. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 03:11, 10 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950383Talk:Base stats2013-08-10T06:15:34Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I absolutely disagree. The pages were where they were before because nobody took the time to notice that an official term had been created; you can't argue that things should stay the same because everyone used to be okay with the situation. The situation has changed: the values and the terminology for them are both becoming more visible in official media, which means it is becoming more urgent for us to use the official terms. In adopting new terminology, Bulbapedia is not a follower of the whims of the fan community, but a leader in adopting official terms ''regardless of their popularity or lackthereof''. We are not Wikipedia and, unlike them, we do not go by common names when we are aware that they differ from official names. The values formerly known as EVs are "base stats". Period. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Nobody ever noticed, in ten years, that EVs had been referred to as base stats in-game? That doesn't seem very plausible. My argument is not even remotely close to being based on "things should stay the same because everybody used to be okay with it", again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't said. I brought up the point that the community has been using EVs for ten years despite it being officially referred to as base stats because you seemed to assume, earlier in the discussion, that it was a given that the community would eventually adopt the "new" terminology. After that point, you go back into suggesting that we should use official terms just because they're official without explaining why it's better, which, again, is just bureaucratic inefficiency that leads to a lesser quality. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::It's entirely plausible and also ''true'' that nobody noticed, or at least nobody spoke up to bring it to the attention of the rest of us. Since the new term will be used ''in-game'' and the old one has never been, of ''course'' it's a given that the community will eventually adopt the new terminology, because otherwise no newbies will be able to know what anybody's talking about. I cannot fathom why you are so against following policy when doing so will not be harmful at all. Official name with a disambiguating note at the top. How is that not inherently better than an unofficial name? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Once again - base stats has been used in-game for ''ten years''. ''How'' is it a given that the community will adopt it this generation, when they haven't for the last three generations that it's been used in-game? Your assertion that it's a fact that nobody noticed for ten years is frankly absurd. It's also absurd that you suggest no new players are capable of finding out what people are talking about when they refer to EVs, considering this hasn't changed in ten years. When players go to learn about the hidden values that affect their stats, it's much easier for them to learn what they are when everything refers to them by one name, instead of every single person and website except one referring to them by one name while one particular website refers to them by a completely different term that means the opposite and also describes the value inaccurately. That is why it's worse - it causes so much more confusion than just having the page under Effort values does. If the community does shift to using base stats as the term for EVs with a new term for base stats, then I would absolutely agree with you - but just assuming that it's a given when it hasn't yet happened after ten years and making changes that will cause confusion now based on that assumption is not something I can agree with. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
I am for the move. Bulbapedia should always reflect the current, official terminology used. The community will adapt to the official terms as they always do. There's no reason to keep the page at an inaccurate title simply on the basis that is has been used for a long time. Things change, plain and simple. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You are ignoring my points in exactly the same way as Pumpkinking0192... you say, as if it were a fact, that "the community will adapt to the official terms as they always do" - but the only adaptation that the community has made to this official term over the past ten years is to completely disregard it and instead use a term that actually makes sense. And, yet again, the argument here is ''not'' to keep it just because it's been this way for a long time, but to keep it because changing it under these circumstances will only cause a lot of unnecessary confusion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:32, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::You're ignoring our point that "base stats" is canon and "EVs" is not. Canon is inherently superior to non-canon. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[Usertalk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:37, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Canon is not inherently superior to non-canon in all situations without any consideration to context. I've asked you to explain ''why'' it's better in this specific case. I've given three points as to ''why'' it's not, but you seem to be incapable of explaining why it's better. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, it is inherently superior in all situations on Bulbapedia. If we can use a non-canon term when a canon one exists, we can just name any page anything we want. Anarchy! This is a professional-level wiki, not just any old fansite. We have standards. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:02, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::I should point out that this is the first time that they've been referred to in more than just passing on an item description as base stats and, from the sounds of things, this will be the first time that the games themselves go into detail about them. It's something that Game Freak clearly want to start making more available to a wider audience, meaning that this is really the first time that the term has been all that relevant. The fact that there was already a fan meaning for base stats is likely a reason that people didn't make the change before now, though given that the term is clearly going to be used more often from official sources and within the fanbase (newer players), it seems odd to me to not make the change now. Besides, all links to EVs will still redirect to the page, so it shouldn't be nearly as confusing as you're making it out to be. This isn't about being better, it's about being correct. - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:09, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
Hold on. What if they're not referring to EVs? What if they're just referring to base stats and how they can be increased (just like what the descriptions for the Vitamins etc say)? Here's how I see it:<br />
<br />
From the "Understanding Stats" page:<br />
:"''The rate at which these stats will grow depends on an underlying set of stats called base stats. Each of the six main stats has its own base stat.''"<br />
That's not talking about EVs, that's talking about base stats. The Super Training page mentions how a Pokemon can increase its base stats (not its stats, but the actual underlying base stats) with Super Training. It does not say something like "with Super Training, a Pokemon can gain certain points called base stats that increase its stats". It simply says that their base stats can be raised, not exactly ''what'' raises them (again, just like the Vitamin descriptions etc).<br />
<br />
From the Effort-o-Meter section on the "Super Training" page:<br />
:"''Each Pokémon has some stats that will grow more easily than others and some stats that will take more work to raise. The inside (green) part of the Effort-o-Meter graph shows the stat levels relevant to each Pokémon species. The outside (yellow) part of the graph shows the base stat increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training.''"<br />
The green part is a Pokemon's base stat, and the yellow part is the base stat increases. That is, the yellow part shows how many effort values the Pokemon has gained, it's just not mentioned by name. To sum it up, I think Nintendo is just not using a name for what we know as "Effort Values", they just use the term "base stat increases", '''with "increases" ''being'' the "effort values"'''. I therefore think the term "effort values" should stay and Base Stat not moved. Or, if anything, have Effort Values moved to something like "Base Stat increases". [[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] ([[User talk:Angela-Samshi|talk]]) 01:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The use of the term "stat levels" in the Effort-o-Meter makes it clear that they've now renamed both things, so leaving "base stats" at its current location is not an option. You've raised a valid point, though; with this new information, it seems like "base stats" are now the term Nintendo's using for the combined "stat levels" + "base stat increases"/"EVs"/whatever. Nintendo's not being too clear on this, though. Maybe "base stats" should be an umbrella/disambiguation page directing users to "stat levels" and whatever the term we use for EVs is? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Personally I took the "increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training" to imply that the meter shows the base stats gained from Super Training only more than it being than what you've suggested. Besides, while base stat increases is hardly eloquent, it could just as easily have been meant to be referring to increases from 0 base stats for all we know. - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:53, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::Addressing this bit from Pumpkinking0192...<br />
::::::"Yes, it is inherently superior in all situations on Bulbapedia. If we can use a non-canon term when a canon one exists, we can just name any page anything we want. Anarchy! This is a professional-level wiki, not just any old fansite. We have standards." <br />
:::::This is a blatant strawman argument if I've ever seen one. I'm starting to believe this is intentional - this is the third time you've addressed an argument I never made while completely ignoring the argument I did make. I gave several reasons as to why, in this particular instance, it would be better for Bulbapedia to retain the current names. The only claim you've even attempted to make to explain why it would be better to use the official term was that you assumed that it was a given that the community would move to the "new" terminology that's been around for ten years and apparently just wasn't noticed before now, and beyond that questionable assumption it's been nothing but "official is better no matter what, because I say it is". If that's the best explanation you can offer up, have fun with your "standards" - personally, I prefer a higher standard of encyclopedia quality over a higher standard of bureaucratic rule enforcement, but that's just me. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 05:31, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::It's not just me who says official is better. Look at both of the staff members who have posted on this page: Funktastic, a Junior Administrator, says, "''We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom.'' [...] ''The official term should always take precedence.''". Crystal Talian, an Administrator, says, "''Bulbapedia should always reflect the current, official terminology used. The community will adapt to the official terms as they always do.''" This is a matter of Bulbapedia policy, not something to be messed around with on a whim because some guy on a talk page can use pretty rhetorical terms to try to convince everyone that their preferred fanon term is better. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 05:42, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::And they, too, never addressed my points nor provided a reason as to ''why'' official is better in this scenario. I brought this up and backed it with logical reasoning because I feel it is better for the quality of Bulbapedia - I am not acting "on a whim". I liked the part where you attacked a strawman and when I called you out on it, you dismissed it as a "pretty rhetoric term". I'll take using "pretty rhetoric terms" over using logical fallacies like you do. Even still you don't address ''why'' the official term would be better. It is clear to me that you have no intentions of doing so, so I will take my leave from this conversation, since we are aiming for incompatible goals. My final thoughts on the subject... I did provide a quote from Wikipedia above which explains, quite excellently, the concept of "Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy" - yet you are still interested only in enforcing policy to the letter with consideration for circumstance, ostensibly in the name of professionalism. I guess Bulbapedia is a cut above Wikipedia when it comes to being a professional encyclopedia. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 06:15, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Target title for this page===<br />
:''Please use the above section for discussion on '''whether''' to move the page. This section is for '''what''' the page currently titled "base stats" should be moved to, '''assuming it is moved'''.''<br />
SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats". My best idea is "base stats (fan term)", although I'd prefer not to need parenthetical disambiguation if we can help it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd like to wait until we have a clear official term, if there is one. If not, I think "Species stats" is the most reasonable and closest to what was used on the official site. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::[http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/whats_new/super_training/ New page!] ''"The inside (green) part of the Effort-o-Meter graph shows the stat levels relevant to each Pokémon species. The outside (yellow) part of the graph shows the base stat increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training."''<br />
<br />
::What the fans once called base stats are now officially known as '''stat levels''', it would seem. That means that we can move this page to Stat levels and move Effort values to Base stats, yes? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::That sounds canonical to me. Let's move base stats to stat levels. For the record, we also need to fix instances of "stat levels" where people have loosely used it to refer to stat modifiers throughout the wiki. See my response to Angela-Samshi in the above section regarding EVs → base stats. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::From my reading it's not clear whether Nintendo is using it as an actual term, or merely as a loose description. I believe that there is still too much ambiguity to fix that as the name at this point. [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 02:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'm going to disagree with Blazios. [http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/pokemon_101/stats/ This page] simply calls them '''stats'''. '''Stat levels''' sounds like something that isn't outside the Effort-O-Meter's graph, so I serious doubt stat levels is the official term. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 02:51, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::Actually, I misread (tired, sorry), but I stand by that they shouldn't be called stat levels unless the term is used more times than just once. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 03:11, 10 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950374Talk:Base stats2013-08-10T05:31:35Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I absolutely disagree. The pages were where they were before because nobody took the time to notice that an official term had been created; you can't argue that things should stay the same because everyone used to be okay with the situation. The situation has changed: the values and the terminology for them are both becoming more visible in official media, which means it is becoming more urgent for us to use the official terms. In adopting new terminology, Bulbapedia is not a follower of the whims of the fan community, but a leader in adopting official terms ''regardless of their popularity or lackthereof''. We are not Wikipedia and, unlike them, we do not go by common names when we are aware that they differ from official names. The values formerly known as EVs are "base stats". Period. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Nobody ever noticed, in ten years, that EVs had been referred to as base stats in-game? That doesn't seem very plausible. My argument is not even remotely close to being based on "things should stay the same because everybody used to be okay with it", again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't said. I brought up the point that the community has been using EVs for ten years despite it being officially referred to as base stats because you seemed to assume, earlier in the discussion, that it was a given that the community would eventually adopt the "new" terminology. After that point, you go back into suggesting that we should use official terms just because they're official without explaining why it's better, which, again, is just bureaucratic inefficiency that leads to a lesser quality. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::It's entirely plausible and also ''true'' that nobody noticed, or at least nobody spoke up to bring it to the attention of the rest of us. Since the new term will be used ''in-game'' and the old one has never been, of ''course'' it's a given that the community will eventually adopt the new terminology, because otherwise no newbies will be able to know what anybody's talking about. I cannot fathom why you are so against following policy when doing so will not be harmful at all. Official name with a disambiguating note at the top. How is that not inherently better than an unofficial name? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Once again - base stats has been used in-game for ''ten years''. ''How'' is it a given that the community will adopt it this generation, when they haven't for the last three generations that it's been used in-game? Your assertion that it's a fact that nobody noticed for ten years is frankly absurd. It's also absurd that you suggest no new players are capable of finding out what people are talking about when they refer to EVs, considering this hasn't changed in ten years. When players go to learn about the hidden values that affect their stats, it's much easier for them to learn what they are when everything refers to them by one name, instead of every single person and website except one referring to them by one name while one particular website refers to them by a completely different term that means the opposite and also describes the value inaccurately. That is why it's worse - it causes so much more confusion than just having the page under Effort values does. If the community does shift to using base stats as the term for EVs with a new term for base stats, then I would absolutely agree with you - but just assuming that it's a given when it hasn't yet happened after ten years and making changes that will cause confusion now based on that assumption is not something I can agree with. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
I am for the move. Bulbapedia should always reflect the current, official terminology used. The community will adapt to the official terms as they always do. There's no reason to keep the page at an inaccurate title simply on the basis that is has been used for a long time. Things change, plain and simple. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You are ignoring my points in exactly the same way as Pumpkinking0192... you say, as if it were a fact, that "the community will adapt to the official terms as they always do" - but the only adaptation that the community has made to this official term over the past ten years is to completely disregard it and instead use a term that actually makes sense. And, yet again, the argument here is ''not'' to keep it just because it's been this way for a long time, but to keep it because changing it under these circumstances will only cause a lot of unnecessary confusion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:32, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::You're ignoring our point that "base stats" is canon and "EVs" is not. Canon is inherently superior to non-canon. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[Usertalk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:37, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Canon is not inherently superior to non-canon in all situations without any consideration to context. I've asked you to explain ''why'' it's better in this specific case. I've given three points as to ''why'' it's not, but you seem to be incapable of explaining why it's better. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes, it is inherently superior in all situations on Bulbapedia. If we can use a non-canon term when a canon one exists, we can just name any page anything we want. Anarchy! This is a professional-level wiki, not just any old fansite. We have standards. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:02, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::I should point out that this is the first time that they've been referred to in more than just passing on an item description as base stats and, from the sounds of things, this will be the first time that the games themselves go into detail about them. It's something that Game Freak clearly want to start making more available to a wider audience, meaning that this is really the first time that the term has been all that relevant. The fact that there was already a fan meaning for base stats is likely a reason that people didn't make the change before now, though given that the term is clearly going to be used more often from official sources and within the fanbase (newer players), it seems odd to me to not make the change now. Besides, all links to EVs will still redirect to the page, so it shouldn't be nearly as confusing as you're making it out to be. This isn't about being better, it's about being correct. - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:09, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
Hold on. What if they're not referring to EVs? What if they're just referring to base stats and how they can be increased (just like what the descriptions for the Vitamins etc say)? Here's how I see it:<br />
<br />
From the "Understanding Stats" page:<br />
:"''The rate at which these stats will grow depends on an underlying set of stats called base stats. Each of the six main stats has its own base stat.''"<br />
That's not talking about EVs, that's talking about base stats. The Super Training page mentions how a Pokemon can increase its base stats (not its stats, but the actual underlying base stats) with Super Training. It does not say something like "with Super Training, a Pokemon can gain certain points called base stats that increase its stats". It simply says that their base stats can be raised, not exactly ''what'' raises them (again, just like the Vitamin descriptions etc).<br />
<br />
From the Effort-o-Meter section on the "Super Training" page:<br />
:"''Each Pokémon has some stats that will grow more easily than others and some stats that will take more work to raise. The inside (green) part of the Effort-o-Meter graph shows the stat levels relevant to each Pokémon species. The outside (yellow) part of the graph shows the base stat increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training.''"<br />
The green part is a Pokemon's base stat, and the yellow part is the base stat increases. That is, the yellow part shows how many effort values the Pokemon has gained, it's just not mentioned by name. To sum it up, I think Nintendo is just not using a name for what we know as "Effort Values", they just use the term "base stat increases", '''with "increases" ''being'' the "effort values"'''. I therefore think the term "effort values" should stay and Base Stat not moved. Or, if anything, have Effort Values moved to something like "Base Stat increases". [[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] ([[User talk:Angela-Samshi|talk]]) 01:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:The use of the term "stat levels" in the Effort-o-Meter makes it clear that they've now renamed both things, so leaving "base stats" at its current location is not an option. You've raised a valid point, though; with this new information, it seems like "base stats" are now the term Nintendo's using for the combined "stat levels" + "base stat increases"/"EVs"/whatever. Nintendo's not being too clear on this, though. Maybe "base stats" should be an umbrella/disambiguation page directing users to "stat levels" and whatever the term we use for EVs is? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::Personally I took the "increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training" to imply that the meter shows the base stats gained from Super Training only more than it being than what you've suggested. Besides, while base stat increases is hardly eloquent, it could just as easily have been meant to be referring to increases from 0 base stats for all we know. - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:53, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::Addressing this bit from Pumpkinking0192...<br />
::::::"Yes, it is inherently superior in all situations on Bulbapedia. If we can use a non-canon term when a canon one exists, we can just name any page anything we want. Anarchy! This is a professional-level wiki, not just any old fansite. We have standards." <br />
:::::This is a blatant strawman argument if I've ever seen one. I'm starting to believe this is intentional - this is the third time you've addressed an argument I never made while completely ignoring the argument I did make. I gave several reasons as to why, in this particular instance, it would be better for Bulbapedia to retain the current names. The only claim you've even attempted to make to explain why it would be better to use the official term was that you assumed that it was a given that the community would move to the "new" terminology that's been around for ten years and apparently just wasn't noticed before now, and beyond that questionable assumption it's been nothing but "official is better no matter what, because I say it is". If that's the best explanation you can offer up, have fun with your "standards" - personally, I prefer a higher standard of encyclopedia quality over a higher standard of bureaucratic rule enforcement, but that's just me. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 05:31, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Target title for this page===<br />
:''Please use the above section for discussion on '''whether''' to move the page. This section is for '''what''' the page currently titled "base stats" should be moved to, '''assuming it is moved'''.''<br />
SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats". My best idea is "base stats (fan term)", although I'd prefer not to need parenthetical disambiguation if we can help it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd like to wait until we have a clear official term, if there is one. If not, I think "Species stats" is the most reasonable and closest to what was used on the official site. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::[http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/whats_new/super_training/ New page!] ''"The inside (green) part of the Effort-o-Meter graph shows the stat levels relevant to each Pokémon species. The outside (yellow) part of the graph shows the base stat increases that your Pokémon has achieved through Super Training."''<br />
<br />
::What the fans once called base stats are now officially known as '''stat levels''', it would seem. That means that we can move this page to Stat levels and move Effort values to Base stats, yes? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 01:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::That sounds canonical to me. Let's move base stats to stat levels. For the record, we also need to fix instances of "stat levels" where people have loosely used it to refer to stat modifiers throughout the wiki. See my response to Angela-Samshi in the above section regarding EVs → base stats. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 01:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::From my reading it's not clear whether Nintendo is using it as an actual term, or merely as a loose description. I believe that there is still too much ambiguity to fix that as the name at this point. [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 02:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'm going to disagree with Blazios. [http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/pokemon_101/stats/ This page] simply calls them '''stats'''. '''Stat levels''' sounds like something that isn't outside the Effort-O-Meter's graph, so I serious doubt stat levels is the official term. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 02:51, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::Actually, I misread (tired, sorry), but I stand by that they shouldn't be called stat levels unless the term is used more times than just once. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * the [[User talk:ArcToraphim|Arc]] [[Special:Contributions/ArcToraphim|Toraph]] 03:11, 10 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950303Talk:Base stats2013-08-10T00:41:45Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I absolutely disagree. The pages were where they were before because nobody took the time to notice that an official term had been created; you can't argue that things should stay the same because everyone used to be okay with the situation. The situation has changed: the values and the terminology for them are both becoming more visible in official media, which means it is becoming more urgent for us to use the official terms. In adopting new terminology, Bulbapedia is not a follower of the whims of the fan community, but a leader in adopting official terms ''regardless of their popularity or lackthereof''. We are not Wikipedia and, unlike them, we do not go by common names when we are aware that they differ from official names. The values formerly known as EVs are "base stats". Period. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Nobody ever noticed, in ten years, that EVs had been referred to as base stats in-game? That doesn't seem very plausible. My argument is not even remotely close to being based on "things should stay the same because everybody used to be okay with it", again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't said. I brought up the point that the community has been using EVs for ten years despite it being officially referred to as base stats because you seemed to assume, earlier in the discussion, that it was a given that the community would eventually adopt the "new" terminology. After that point, you go back into suggesting that we should use official terms just because they're official without explaining why it's better, which, again, is just bureaucratic inefficiency that leads to a lesser quality. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::It's entirely plausible and also ''true'' that nobody noticed, or at least nobody spoke up to bring it to the attention of the rest of us. Since the new term will be used ''in-game'' and the old one has never been, of ''course'' it's a given that the community will eventually adopt the new terminology, because otherwise no newbies will be able to know what anybody's talking about. I cannot fathom why you are so against following policy when doing so will not be harmful at all. Official name with a disambiguating note at the top. How is that not inherently better than an unofficial name? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Once again - base stats has been used in-game for ''ten years''. ''How'' is it a given that the community will adopt it this generation, when they haven't for the last three generations that it's been used in-game? Your assertion that it's a fact that nobody noticed for ten years is frankly absurd. It's also absurd that you suggest no new players are capable of finding out what people are talking about when they refer to EVs, considering this hasn't changed in ten years. When players go to learn about the hidden values that affect their stats, it's much easier for them to learn what they are when everything refers to them by one name, instead of every single person and website except one referring to them by one name while one particular website refers to them by a completely different term that means the opposite and also describes the value inaccurately. That is why it's worse - it causes so much more confusion than just having the page under Effort values does. If the community does shift to using base stats as the term for EVs with a new term for base stats, then I would absolutely agree with you - but just assuming that it's a given when it hasn't yet happened after ten years and making changes that will cause confusion now based on that assumption is not something I can agree with. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
I am for the move. Bulbapedia should always reflect the current, official terminology used. The community will adapt to the official terms as they always do. There's no reason to keep the page at an inaccurate title simply on the basis that is has been used for a long time. Things change, plain and simple. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You are ignoring my points in exactly the same way as Pumpkinking0192... you say, as if it were a fact, that "the community will adapt to the official terms as they always do" - but the only adaptation that the community has made to this official term over the past ten years is to completely disregard it and instead use a term that actually makes sense. And, yet again, the argument here is ''not'' to keep it just because it's been this way for a long time, but to keep it because changing it under these circumstances will only cause a lot of unnecessary confusion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:32, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::You're ignoring our point that "base stats" is canon and "EVs" is not. Canon is inherently superior to non-canon. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[Usertalk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:37, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::Canon is not inherently superior to non-canon in all situations without any consideration to context. I've asked you to explain ''why'' it's better in this specific case. I've given three points as to ''why'' it's not, but you seem to be incapable of explaining why it's better. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:41, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Target title for this page===<br />
:''Please use the above section for discussion on '''whether''' to move the page. This section is for '''what''' the page currently titled "base stats" should be moved to, '''assuming it is moved'''.''<br />
SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats". My best idea is "base stats (fan term)", although I'd prefer not to need parenthetical disambiguation if we can help it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd like to wait until we have a clear official term, if there is one. If not, I think "Species stats" is the most reasonable and closest to what was used on the official site. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950300Talk:Base stats2013-08-10T00:32:22Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I absolutely disagree. The pages were where they were before because nobody took the time to notice that an official term had been created; you can't argue that things should stay the same because everyone used to be okay with the situation. The situation has changed: the values and the terminology for them are both becoming more visible in official media, which means it is becoming more urgent for us to use the official terms. In adopting new terminology, Bulbapedia is not a follower of the whims of the fan community, but a leader in adopting official terms ''regardless of their popularity or lackthereof''. We are not Wikipedia and, unlike them, we do not go by common names when we are aware that they differ from official names. The values formerly known as EVs are "base stats". Period. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Nobody ever noticed, in ten years, that EVs had been referred to as base stats in-game? That doesn't seem very plausible. My argument is not even remotely close to being based on "things should stay the same because everybody used to be okay with it", again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't said. I brought up the point that the community has been using EVs for ten years despite it being officially referred to as base stats because you seemed to assume, earlier in the discussion, that it was a given that the community would eventually adopt the "new" terminology. After that point, you go back into suggesting that we should use official terms just because they're official without explaining why it's better, which, again, is just bureaucratic inefficiency that leads to a lesser quality. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::It's entirely plausible and also ''true'' that nobody noticed, or at least nobody spoke up to bring it to the attention of the rest of us. Since the new term will be used ''in-game'' and the old one has never been, of ''course'' it's a given that the community will eventually adopt the new terminology, because otherwise no newbies will be able to know what anybody's talking about. I cannot fathom why you are so against following policy when doing so will not be harmful at all. Official name with a disambiguating note at the top. How is that not inherently better than an unofficial name? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Once again - base stats has been used in-game for ''ten years''. ''How'' is it a given that the community will adopt it this generation, when they haven't for the last three generations that it's been used in-game? Your assertion that it's a fact that nobody noticed for ten years is frankly absurd. It's also absurd that you suggest no new players are capable of finding out what people are talking about when they refer to EVs, considering this hasn't changed in ten years. When players go to learn about the hidden values that affect their stats, it's much easier for them to learn what they are when everything refers to them by one name, instead of every single person and website except one referring to them by one name while one particular website refers to them by a completely different term that means the opposite and also describes the value inaccurately. That is why it's worse - it causes so much more confusion than just having the page under Effort values does. If the community does shift to using base stats as the term for EVs with a new term for base stats, then I would absolutely agree with you - but just assuming that it's a given when it hasn't yet happened after ten years and making changes that will cause confusion now based on that assumption is not something I can agree with. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
I am for the move. Bulbapedia should always reflect the current, official terminology used. The community will adapt to the official terms as they always do. There's no reason to keep the page at an inaccurate title simply on the basis that is has been used for a long time. Things change, plain and simple. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:25, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:You are ignoring my points in exactly the same way as Pumpkinking0192... you say, as if it were a fact, that "the community will adapt to the official terms as they always do" - but the only adaptation that the community has made to this official term over the past ten years is to completely disregard it and instead use a term that actually makes sense. And, yet again, the argument here is ''not'' to keep it just because it's been this way for a long time, but to keep it because changing it under these circumstances will only cause a lot of unnecessary confusion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:32, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Target title for this page===<br />
:''Please use the above section for discussion on '''whether''' to move the page. This section is for '''what''' the page currently titled "base stats" should be moved to, '''assuming it is moved'''.''<br />
SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats". My best idea is "base stats (fan term)", although I'd prefer not to need parenthetical disambiguation if we can help it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I'd like to wait until we have a clear official term, if there is one. If not, I think "Species stats" is the most reasonable and closest to what was used on the official site. [[User:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#9F00C5">Crystal</span>]] [[User talk:Crystal Talian|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Talian</span>]] 00:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950295Talk:Base stats2013-08-10T00:21:25Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I absolutely disagree. The pages were where they were before because nobody took the time to notice that an official term had been created; you can't argue that things should stay the same because everyone used to be okay with the situation. The situation has changed: the values and the terminology for them are both becoming more visible in official media, which means it is becoming more urgent for us to use the official terms. In adopting new terminology, Bulbapedia is not a follower of the whims of the fan community, but a leader in adopting official terms ''regardless of their popularity or lackthereof''. We are not Wikipedia and, unlike them, we do not go by common names when we are aware that they differ from official names. The values formerly known as EVs are "base stats". Period. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Nobody ever noticed, in ten years, that EVs had been referred to as base stats in-game? That doesn't seem very plausible. My argument is not even remotely close to being based on "things should stay the same because everybody used to be okay with it", again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't said. I brought up the point that the community has been using EVs for ten years despite it being officially referred to as base stats because you seemed to assume, earlier in the discussion, that it was a given that the community would eventually adopt the "new" terminology. After that point, you go back into suggesting that we should use official terms just because they're official without explaining why it's better, which, again, is just bureaucratic inefficiency that leads to a lesser quality. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::It's entirely plausible and also ''true'' that nobody noticed, or at least nobody spoke up to bring it to the attention of the rest of us. Since the new term will be used ''in-game'' and the old one has never been, of ''course'' it's a given that the community will eventually adopt the new terminology, because otherwise no newbies will be able to know what anybody's talking about. I cannot fathom why you are so against following policy when doing so will not be harmful at all. Official name with a disambiguating note at the top. How is that not inherently better than an unofficial name? [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 00:05, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::Once again - base stats has been used in-game for ''ten years''. ''How'' is it a given that the community will adopt it this generation, when they haven't for the last three generations that it's been used in-game? Your assertion that it's a fact that nobody noticed for ten years is frankly absurd. It's also absurd that you suggest no new players are capable of finding out what people are talking about when they refer to EVs, considering this hasn't changed in ten years. When players go to learn about the hidden values that affect their stats, it's much easier for them to learn what they are when everything refers to them by one name, instead of every single person and website except one referring to them by one name while one particular website refers to them by a completely different term that means the opposite and also describes the value inaccurately. That is why it's worse - it causes so much more confusion than just having the page under Effort values does. If the community does shift to using base stats as the term for EVs with a new term for base stats, then I would absolutely agree with you - but just assuming that it's a given when it hasn't yet happened after ten years and making changes that will cause confusion now based on that assumption is not something I can agree with. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 00:21, 10 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Target title for this page===<br />
:''Please use the above section for discussion on '''whether''' to move the page. This section is for '''what''' the page currently titled "base stats" should be moved to, '''assuming it is moved'''.''<br />
SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats". My best idea is "base stats (fan term)", although I'd prefer not to need parenthetical disambiguation if we can help it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950269Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T23:54:00Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::I absolutely disagree. The pages were where they were before because nobody took the time to notice that an official term had been created; you can't argue that things should stay the same because everyone used to be okay with the situation. The situation has changed: the values and the terminology for them are both becoming more visible in official media, which means it is becoming more urgent for us to use the official terms. In adopting new terminology, Bulbapedia is not a follower of the whims of the fan community, but a leader in adopting official terms ''regardless of their popularity or lackthereof''. We are not Wikipedia and, unlike them, we do not go by common names when we are aware that they differ from official names. The values formerly known as EVs are "base stats". Period. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::Nobody ever noticed, in ten years, that EVs had been referred to as base stats in-game? That doesn't seem very plausible. My argument is not even remotely close to being based on "things should stay the same because everybody used to be okay with it", again, you seem to be arguing against things I haven't said. I brought up the point that the community has been using EVs for ten years despite it being officially referred to as base stats because you seemed to assume, earlier in the discussion, that it was a given that the community would eventually adopt the "new" terminology. After that point, you go back into suggesting that we should use official terms just because they're official without explaining why it's better, which, again, is just bureaucratic inefficiency that leads to a lesser quality. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Target title for this page===<br />
:''Please use the above section for discussion on '''whether''' to move the page. This section is for '''what''' the page currently titled "base stats" should be moved to, '''assuming it is moved'''.''<br />
SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats". My best idea is "base stats (fan term)", although I'd prefer not to need parenthetical disambiguation if we can help it. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 23:28, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950262Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T23:15:03Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Fans who know about EVs will probably be well-informed enough to know that Gen 6 renamed them (and if they aren't, they should be smart enough to look at the disambig notice at the top saying see X other page if you wanted Y topic), while fans who didn't know about them will come to BP looking for base stats because that's the official term used in-game. I see absolutely no reason official names supplemented by disambig notices wouldn't be the optimal arrangement. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::As someone noted on the Effort values discussion page, this actually wasn't just a mistake by the writers of a press release - it's actually how EVs have been officially referred to since Ruby and Sapphire. Therefore, EVs were not named base stats specifically in Generation VI - and, despite the fact that they've been officially referred to as base stats for ten years, the entirety of the community still refers to them as EVs. Given that every single other website and every single member of the community still refers to them as EVs, moving them to Base stats simply causes a lot of unnecessary confusion. If the community does move to adopt the new terminology your stance would make more sense to me, but as is, they are completely universally referred to as EVs everywhere except in a couple of item descriptions and now a press release. Especially given the overlap with an existing term that refers to something that means the opposite and has no alternative, it makes far, far more sense to have the page under Effort values with a note that Nintendo has referred to them as base stats than the other way around, which would certainly cause confusion even with a disambiguation notice. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 23:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950250Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T22:52:06Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::It was written with characters in mind, but I believe it applies here too — it boils down to official name versus commonly-used name, which is the same issue we're disagreeing about here. I am not an admin, nor was I the person to add the move template; but if I did have the authority, I would have simply moved the "effort values" page in the first place because, yes, there's nothing to discuss about that. The thing to discuss is what the target name for the former "base stats" page should be. SnorlaxMonster suggested "species stats"; that doesn't ring nicely in my ear, but I can't think of anything better. ("Base stats (fan term)" is the best I can come up with, but I'd rather not use a parenthetical disambiguation if we don't need to.) No one else has made any suggestions. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
(resetting indent)I don't really think there is much of reason to discuss EVs-> Base stats. The official term should always take precedence. However, without a new title for this page, it can't happen. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 22:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The thing is this simply isn't like other situations. I've given three reasons why, compared to something like the Happiness --> Friendship change, it would be detrimental to the quality of Bulbapedia to make this change. What is the point of enforcing a manual of style if you can't provide any reasons for why it would be beneficial to Bulbapedia to do so in this instance? The individual circumstances need to be considered, because there are so many things different from a situation like this compared to a situation like Japanese/English names.<br />
:"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus."<br />
I realise that this is Bulbapedia, not Wikipedia, but I see no reason that the same concepts shouldn't apply. There is nothing to be gained by enforcing rules for the sake of rules rather than for the sake of improving Bulbapedia. So far nobody has even tried to provide an argument for WHY using the official term would be better even with the downsides of the unique circumstances in mind. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950245Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T22:25:43Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Here's a direct quote from the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style|Bulbapedia Manual of Style]], which determines how things work on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::::''Formerly, the style was to name articles based on whichever name a character was most "well known by". However, this created debate as to who judges which name is most commonly known, and thus created unnecessary conflict given how rarely a character is known to the English-speaking fanbase more commonly by anything but their English name. Hence, the style has since been abandoned.''<br />
::::::::"Base stats" is the official English name as far as we currently know. "Effort values" is the name they are most well known by. Thus, according to policy, we must use "base stats". If you disagree with that policy, then that is a discussion with a much larger scope than this particular article, and should be taken up with the admins directly. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 22:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::That manual of style entry was not made with something like this in mind, but rather characters of the anime. To blindly apply it to absolutely everything regardless of the circumstance, without stopping to consider whether it would actually improve Bulbapedia to do so, is exactly the kind of bureaucratic inefficiency I was talking about. Furthermore, why even have a discussion on this page? You could just move the page and be done with it, if it really is an absolute must. There's nothing to discuss here if that's how we're handling it. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950237Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T22:01:37Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::You still seem to be ignoring the point that "base stats" is now the '''official''' term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we '''must''' use it (unless, as was suggested on [[Talk:Effort values]], the press release is inaccurate to what the game will call them). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::::: The statement "official term for what was formerly known as EVs, so it doesn't matter whether it's confusing or does not accurately describe the topic; we must use it" reeks of utter bureaucratic inefficiency. There is no law of the universe dictating that that we must use it. If you believe we should use it, please focus on providing good arguments for why, not simply say that we must use it no matter what regardless of any downsides to using it - that is not even remotely conducive to the discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 22:01, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950228Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T21:48:39Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::...and when Gen 6 gets released and early adopters start using the official terms, others will gradually hop on board with them and when critical mass is reached, nothing will be confusing any more. It'll be exactly the same situation as previous generations when people got used to the Japanese names and then complained when they were updated to the English names. Boo hoo, whine whine, and then they got over it. Insisting on using old fan terms instead of new official terms will just prolong the whining; it won't make the official term go away. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:38, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::::: No, it's not even remotely close to the same situation at all. See the three points I made about the happiness/friendship change - they all apply. In addition, English/Japanese names are a terrible comparison - it's really blatantly obvious that you wouldn't keep Japanese Pokemon names on an English database, there's not even a discussion to be had there. The definition of the words base and stats in this context mean the exact opposite of what the term EVs refer to, and on top of this there's already an existing term with an opposite meaning that causes overlap, which doesn't have any other term by which it could be referred to. THAT is what causes confusion, I'm not saying "never change anything because change causes confusion", which is what you seem to be arguing against. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:48, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950220Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T21:27:42Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to {{redlink|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:We should be using official terms regardless of their use in fandom. For example, despite happiness being the term used and preferred by the fandom, once Friendship was shown to be the official term, it was changed. I don't know if I necessarily agree with Species Stat as this page's title, I do believe that if base stat is the official term for EVs (and they've been using this term for vitamins for quite a while), then that should be used as the title instead of EVs. Confusion can be mitigated by adding a "if you want the term used by fandom etc etc" at the top of the page. --[[User:Funktastic~!|<span style="color:#009900">'''It's'''</span> <span style="color:#CC66FF">'''Funktastic~!'''</span>]][[User talk:Funktastic~!|<sub><small><span style="color:#99CCFF">''話してください''</span></small></sub>]] 19:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::There is no official term for what is currently referred to as base stats. This is an important point. Another fundamentally different point between this and happiness/friendship is that there was no existing use for Friendship that would easily be confused with something else. Yet another fundamentally different point is that friendship actually describes what happiness was - the meaning of base stats is actually the exact opposite of EVs. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Oppose. We have used unofficial terms over official ones before (shiny Pokemon were officially "alternately colored" in Gen III) and moving the EVs article to a term that has widely been used for five generations to mean something else entirely would create more confusion than simply going with a disambiguation at the top of this page. In other words, in this case, switching '''creates''' confusion instead of curing it. [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::I don't believe it matters what the community calls it; a disambig notice should be plenty to avoid confusion from people typing "base stat" into the search bar. As for the suggested move itself, I strongly agree that this article needs to be moved away from "base stats" because that term now officially refers to something else. I'm not all that fond of "species stat" in particular, but I can't think of any better alternatives. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::The difference in this case is that the the term "base stats" has both a fan meaning and an official meaning, while there was never anything officially called Shiny Pokémon back in Gen III. If a term has 2 meanings that contradict each other, surely the official meaning should take priority? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 21:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:::It's not about people entering base stats into the search bar. It's the fact that every other website, and just about every single member of the entire Pokemon community who knows about EVs, uses the term EVs to refer to EVs. Bulbapedia referring to EVs as Base stats will certainly cause confusion whilst EVs are still the term in complete widespread use. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Effort_values&diff=1950217Talk:Effort values2013-08-09T21:16:00Z<p>Viskiv: /* Move */</p>
<hr />
<div>Where "252" comes from isn't explained... it'd be better as Math.floor(255/4), but I'd prefer to see it written with the proper math symbols, which don't appear to be supported in Bulbapedia yet... - Hyperworm.<br />
:We'll try to get texvc installed, but that would mean getting an Ocaml compiler for whatever platform the server is running... not to mention checking that TeX is installed properly, etc. (mutter...) - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 12:23, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Feel free to make it floor(255/4) with a description of the floor command, but leave the "Math." out, Bulbapedia isn't a compiler. Don't expect most people viewing the page to know what "floor()" does.<br />
:--[[User:Jshadias|Jshadias]] 00:53, 22 Feb 2005 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is anyone thinking of compiling a chart of pokemon and what Effort Values they have? I see that each pokemon has theirs on their own pages but it doesn't list all of them at one spot, any ambitions or places online that it could be copied over from? [[User:Lucasthalefty|Lucasthalefty]] 02:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Bulbapedia already has one of those, actually. Now that you mention it, I hvae no idea why it's not linked to here. I'll add a hyperlink to the article. -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>'''</font>]] 04:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Wow that makes it so much better thanks [[User:Lucasthalefty|Lucasthalefty]] 14:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just a point of clarification here - is it necessary to get a Pokemon to lv. 100 to get the full EV benefits? [[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 13:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Once they have the effort ribbon, you'll know they have full effort values. Otherwise, then, you can't really know. Heck, a Pokémon can hit 100 without full EVs. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[wp:Echidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">E</span><span style="color:#0000FF;">chidna</span>]]''' 19:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
::No, no. I mean, do the stat benefits show up only at lv. 100, or immediately after you've filled the 510 EVs? [[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, it's not like leveling from 99 to 100 will add some ridiculously high number to the stats. I don't keep track personally, but I think that they'll show up instantly once you've filled the EVs, and it won't matter if you enter them as some lower level into the autolevel-to-100 battle on WFC, or level them up naturally. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[wp:Echidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">E</span><span style="color:#0000FF;">chidna</span>]]''' 21:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, if you have enough evs, the stat gain comes after you level up. Say you get 16 evs before leveling up. If so, then when you do level up and you get 16 atk's, youll get 4 evs. So leveling to 100 isnt necesarry-- [[User:Mr T Tar]]<br />
:It is. You may have the EVs, but you don't have the stats. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[wp:Echidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">E</span><span style="color:#0000FF;">chidna</span>]]''' 04:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
And now i know thanks to you. I feel like a noob T_T {{unsigned|Mr T Tar}}<br />
<br />
== Some adjustments needed? ==<br />
<br />
First off, vitamins, The article's wording seems to imply that a vitamin can be used when the current points are any amount less than 100, and unless things have changed, or i know wrong, vitamins will only raise EV's TO 100 and never over 100, meaning vitamins can only be used when current EV's are 90 or less.<br />
<br />
Also, the basic info seems to ONLY address the final results at level 100, leading to earlier confusion about whether or not EV's apply anytime before. The EV portion of the stat calculations could be here, and/or a chart showing at what levels the EV's needed for an actual stat point are whole numbers, and how many it is, along the lines of:<br />
<br />
100 = 4<br />
80 = 5<br />
50 = 8<br />
40 = 10<br />
25 = 16<br />
20 = 20<br />
16 = 25<br />
10 = 40<br />
8 = 50<br />
5 = 80<br />
4 = 100<br />
-------<br />
2 = 200<br />
1 = 400<br />
<br />
Obviously we don't need a lot of the lower levels, since it'd be difficult to finish EV training that low. at eight, you'd need to use all the vitamins the game will let you to get just two stat points, and only one for the same at level 4, and gaining a single whole stat point is impossible at levels 1 and 2.<br />
:I'm thinking the chart should be cut off at 4, since then you could still use vitamins to gain 5 single stat points in different stats. {{u|Kendai}} 10:38 October 22, 2007.<br />
<br />
I get the numbers by dividing 400 by the level, or the needed number of EV's. You can see they start to mirror at 20. <br />
<br />
:Vitamins are only if the EV's less than 100 at the time of use. Even if it's 99, you can still use one vitamin. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">TTE</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#0000FF">chidna</span>]]''' 09:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
::I'm confused as to what happens in that situation. If the Pokemon has 99 EVs and you give it a vitamin, will it only gain 1 EV so that it hits 100, or will it raise the EVs to 109? --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 07:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Double on the route where caught? ==<br />
<br />
I read somewhere (a long time ago, I forget now) that when training a Pokémon on the same route or other map area where you caught it, it will receive double the normal amount of EVs. Does anyone know if this is true? {{unsigned|Dansiman}}<br />
:I know that in Crystal, it raised happiness by like, double or something. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span>{{ani|155|Fire echy}}<span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 02:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
::I don't think that thing you read was true. After all, many Pokémon are recieved in places where there are no wild Pokémon, such as starter pokémon, and you can't battle in the Safari Zone, and if a Pokémon is traded, say, from Diamond to Soul Silver, then you couldn't do train on the route either.<br />
Is it possible to check how many EVs are there for a apecific stat? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 19:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible to check how many EVs are there for a a specific stat? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 19:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
* If you know the IVs, you can come pretty damn close. But otherwise, no. [[User:System Error|System Error]] 21:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there any way you can max out a specific stat without the use of vitamins? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 13:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Yes. Extra EV training can make up for no vitamin usage. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 18:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
::How do you do that? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 19:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::All 252 (255) EVs would have to come from battling. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 02:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Does that mean you have to battle continuously? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 18:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::Yep. So if you wanted to raise Sp Attack EVs, you'd battle something like Budew 252 times (Budew gives out one Sp Attack EV, I think) [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 18:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Unless you have the 'rus and a Macho Brace. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span>{{ani|155|Fire echy}}<span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 00:48, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
What about Emerald? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 06:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I think (THINK!) it is more or less the same. <span style=" background:#000000">'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|<font color=blue>Ph34r4ever]]<sup>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|<font color=navy>Talk page]][[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|<span class="buttonlink" title="GeminiSpark!">♊</span></font clear="all">]]</sc>'''</span> 07:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
::But how do you know battling which Pokémon raises which EV? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 07:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Ask TTE. He knows (almost) everything! <span style=" background:#000000">'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|<font color=blue>Ph34r4ever]]<sup>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|<font color=navy>Talk page]][[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|<span class="buttonlink" title="GeminiSpark!">♊</span></font clear="all">]]</sc>'''</span> 07:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::(edit conflict) Or ask me!<br />
:::There's a list linked on the article here, and other lists across the 'web as well. Generally, Pokémon will give EVs to stats they're strong in themselves (Zubat's Speed stat is it's strongest, so it gives out 1 EV to Speed when you defeat it). There are some exceptions, but that's generally how it works out.<br />
:::For training in a specific stat, generally you just look at a list of Pokémon by EV reward, find ones that are fairly common, and track down a spot where you can find them easily. For example, Fearow and Raticate both give 2 EVs to Attack, and the area just North of the Fight Area in D/P is full of Fearow and Raticate; if you were planning to train for Attack, that would be the easiest place to train (fighting Fearow and Raticate, and running from anything else). Is that what you meant to ask? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 07:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Could you give me a link to any of those websites? And could you also tell me how to raise Special Attack in Emerald (that's what I'm playing now)? {{unsigned|J-J-M}}<br />
:::::For one, [[List of Pokémon by effort value yield]] is right here, simply sort by the Sp. Atk. column, which will put anything with more then a zero at the top (keep an eye out for some Pokémon that raise multiple stats at once, they can mess up your math).<br />
:::::In Emerald, let's see... Sp. Atk. is something I've trained before, let me check my notes. *runs off*<br />
:::::...I trained on [[Route 113]], [[Spinda]]s and [[Slugma]]s each give out 1 point towards Sp. Atk. stat. Flee from [[Skarmory]], they give out 2 points towards Def. stat (Skarmory are pretty rare anyways). MAKE SURE you mark down each Spinda/Slugma you defeat, there's nothing more annoying then losing count after number 134! And don't forget to save every so often too.<br />
:::::One more note, if you didn't already know, Exp. Share shares EVs too, so if you need to train two Pokémon for Sp. Atk., give one of them an Exp. Share and it'll gain the EVs from battling too. It won't get the benefit of a Macho Brace or anything if your first Pokémon has one, though.<br />
:::::...last note, training there is a great way to collect Soot on the route while you're at it. ;D --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 00:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
One more thing....is there any other way to get Attack EVs without having to battle Carvanha? (I can't find that thing anywhere!!!) [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 14:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I was wondering if somebody could please explain something for me... sorry if I'm slow to pick it up, I only found out about EVs a little while ago (so yeah, I played my way through the games ignorant of them), but I'm having trouble understanding how EVs actually become stat points. I understand how you accumulate EVs, but at what point, and how, do these become stat points? I originally assumed that it was instant (i.e., you get four EVs in a particular stat, that becomes a stat point for that stat) but from reading the rest of the discussion on this page, that doesn't seem to be the case. Someone also mentioned resetting EV values... that confused me too :S <br />
If there's a clearer explanation of how this works somewhere else, I'd really appreciate it if someone could direct me to it.<br />
Thanks- Timothy.<br />
:Every four EV points you gain, that's +1 in that stat at level 100. You can get up to 255 EVs in one stat, 510 total. 252 is where most people stop for a specific stat, since you don't get stat points for 3 EVs. EV points are gained from specific Pokémon, and there's a list of them somewhere around here. They get doubled by Pokérus and the Macho Brace. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 14:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lv 100 Pokemon==<br />
Sigh.. my brother wanted to make a Latias he got stronger. The Latias was Lv100, so he gave the berries that lower EVs in ATTACK, so he could give extra Sp.Atk to his Latias, but when he went to train, the Latias did NOT receive any EV after battling (he tried doing the box trick so the game would recalculate the EVs, but the Sp.Atk didn't rise). So here is the question: Can a Lv 100 Pokemon receive EVs? '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 18:21, 18 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:No, you can't EV train at 100. [[User:Tina|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Tina|<span style="color:#E75480;">☆</span>]][[User talk:Tina|<span style="color:#E75480;">♫</span>]]</sup> 18:29, 18 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::What about in Generation III? I've heard many conflicting stories about Level 100 Pokémon in Generation III receiving/not receiving experience and EVs. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 02:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm positive that without actually leveling up, the Pokémon won't gain any EVs. I believe the previous versions allowed players to deposit a Pokémon into a storage box, then withdraw, which would re-count the EVs... but this isn't in Gen.III, I'm 99% sure. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 03:52, 19 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::And what about pokémon that I already use vitamins? I mean because if you use medicine on them until it gets to "It won't have any effect", can you still train them? '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 19:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Vitamins cap out at 100 EVs (10 EVs per item), so when the Vitamins stop working, there's still 155 EVs left that you can do in that stat.<br />
:::In Gen.IV at least, I know Vitamins won't actually help you out training a level 100 Pokémon, if that's your question, since Vitamins grant EVs, and you'll need to level up to gain the effects. Just an FYI. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 09:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Eheh, he tried the box trick? That's only in the original Game Boys, not the Advance. So the trick won't work: 0.00000000000001% chance of it working. Good luck. Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<span class="explain" title="Optimus35"><sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]</sup>''09:45 21 May 2008'''''<br />
::If this is any evidence for or against the idea, I once made a mistake in EV training my Donphan--It was Level 50 with 196/140 HP/Attack instead of the 197/141 I wanted. I deleted its EVs, re-trained it WITHOUT LEVELLING IT UP, and deposited it into the PC. Donphan is still Level 50 and now has 197/141 HP/Attack. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Which game were you playing exactly? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 05:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Sorry. It was Diamond. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::The box trick works in Gen III too. I've done it many times, but just for fun because I know it's the same as leveling up. But I was wondering if you could do it with lv 100 pokemon too, because it's still possible with other pokemon. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 00:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Maxing Stats?==<br />
I've noticed that a lot of people manually count the number of battles they do while maxing a stat to 252...but wouldn't it be more convenient to just get it to 255 without counting and using a EV-reducing berry? Thanks. [[User:Drbazzi|Drbazzi]] 18:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Well, a berry would reduce it to 245, as they make EVs decrease by 10. And... why 252? it is just the same as 255. if you get 252 in two stats, you'll be able to get other 6 EVs for a thid stat, but it will only increase it 1 point at level 100... and 1 at level 100 is the same as nothing. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 20:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::In Emerald, that method would be more convenient. For Diamond/Pearl (and later, I would assume), if the Pokémon has more than 100 EVs in a stat, one EV-reducing berry would take it back to 100. For example, using an EV-reducing berry on a Pokémon with 255 EVs would take it down to 100 EVs, and using a berry on one with 101 EVs would also take it down to 100. For Hfc2x's question, let me turn that around: "Why 255? It is just the same as 252." The 1 extra point is for "all the advantage you can get", because you never know when one extra point may save you. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:15, 26 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Nopes, you're wrong. EV-reducing berries lower the EVs by 10 ALWAYS, even when it is over 100. and the 1 point in one stat is nothing, 'cause you can only make the difference every 18 points at level 100. For example... if I have a Pokémon with 300 of speed and my oponent has 305, ANY of the Pokémon may attack first because the difference is so minimal. And for offensive stats there is something called "{{wp|Random number generation|RNG}}" which is the reason of why sometimes your attacks are more powerful than usual, and not just for your high stats. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 02:21, 27 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::Okay, try maxing out a stat in Diamond/Pearl, and use one berry. I have tried it myself--there is a MASSIVE loss with the first berry and a much smaller loss with the second, third, and so on. Your speed example is ridiculous, because a 305-Speed Pokémon will ALWAYS move before a 300-Speed, provided the moves have the same priority. Remember what I said: "Why 255? It is just the same as 252.", and "all the advantage you can get". [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 21:50, 27 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::::No offense, but Playing Diamond and Pearl doesn't mean that you are the complete master of the games... I know why I say it. A Pokémon with 305 speed MAY attack before another with 300, and I tell you not because I'm sure, but that's the way the game works. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 00:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I still challenge you to try it in Diamond/Pearl. I say again: "Your speed example is ridiculous, because a 305-Speed Pokémon will ALWAYS move before a 300-Speed, provided the moves have the same priority." [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 00:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
You think I've never played Pokémon? xD quoting your own phrases is not the great thing... please read the whole talk page and see that I've already done that. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 04:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
If you are EV training a Pokémon with both a Macho Brace(Power Anklet, et al.) and the Pokérus, does the doubling take place before or after the plus four? For example, if I defeat a Jumpluff with a Pokémon that is holding a Power Anklet and currently has or has previously had the Pokérus, will it be getting 10 EVs(3*2+4) or 14 EVs((3+4)*2)? --[[User:Podunk|<span style="color:green">Po</span><span style="color:black">dunk</span>]] 10:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:It works like this:<br />
:I defeated a {{p|Gastly}} and my {{p|Alakazam}} had [[Pokérus]] and was holding [[EV-enhancing item#Power Lens|Power Lens]]. Gastly gives 1 {{Stat|Special Attack|Sp.Atk}} EV and the Power lens gives 4 extra EVs also, giving a total of 5. THEN the Pokérus duplicates the EVs for the Pokémon, (in this case Alakazam) giving a total of 10 Sp.Atk EVs. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 19:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Oh really? ==<br />
<br />
The last sentence states that it adds 4 EVs to the respective stat even if EVs in a different stat are gained. Is this tested to be true?<br />
<br />
To clarify, +4 first, THEN x2 for Pokerus <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Mr. Black|Mr. Black]] ([[User talk:Mr. Black|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Black|contribs]]){{ #if: | &#32;{{{2}}} |}}''</small><br />
<br />
Also, I believe the EV system for Generations I and II is wrong here. I'm fairly sure Pokemon weren't given specific EV values like they are now, I think EVs were actually calculated based on a Pokemon's stats. Please check it anyway to make sure.<br />
<br />
Since you added 252 is the highest multiple of 4 in 255, you might want to add 508 is the highest multiple of 4 in 510, making 2 available EVs useless. <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Mr. Black|Mr. Black]] ([[User talk:Mr. Black|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Black|contribs]]){{ #if: | &#32;{{{2}}} |}}''</small><br />
:Well, Mr. Black isn't responding you questions... The first one is YES, if you use Power Wheight you'll always gain +4 HP EVs, even if you fight a Graveler. And the second one is NO, Pokémon always have given away the same EVs they give now, but the difference is that there is no limit in Gens I and II, instead of the limit of 510 in Gens III and IV. {{unsigned|hfc2x}}<br />
<br />
Well, I'll explain it better:<br />
*Power Wheight helps you get +4 EVs in HP ''EVERY TIME YOU FIGHT AND FAINT AND OPPONENT''. This is added to the total if you haven't got the Pokerus. If you have Pokérus, then the total (after adding the bonus for the held item) is multiplied by 2.<br />
*In Generations I and II, ALL Pokémon give ''THE SAME'' EVs they give now. The only difference among generations is the total of EVs you can add to a Pokémon if you want to train. In Gens III and IV the maximum training in EVs is 510, with a maximum of 255 in every stat, but the total cannot exceed 510. In Gens I and II, there is no maximum amount of EVs in any stat nor a maximum of total EVs. Meaning that you can get infinite training.<br />
<br />
I hope it is clear now... '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 18:31, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* I think your second statement about Generations I and II is incorrect. According to [http://www.geocities.com/thelegendarydogs/faqs/all/genes/genesfaq.htm this GenI&II Pokémon DVs guide], defeating a Pokémon added its base stats to your EV scores (called Stat XP in the old terminology), and your EV scores were limited to 65535. This corroborates with the [[Pokémon data structure in the GB|data structure]], which has ten bytes for Effort data or two bytes per stat, and two bytes can store a maximum value of 65535. --[[User:JDigital|JDigital]] 05:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Probability ==<br />
<br />
How many different combinations of EVs are possible without going over the limit for EVs, 510, and the limit in each individual stat, 255? {{unsigned|Superbreeder}}<br />
<br />
:I think 255! * 6...but that doesn't discount duplicates, so I'm not quite sure. It probably involves factorials, and it's certainly exceptionally large. [[User:Evkl|evkl]] 21:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::Ask {{u|Beligaronia|this guy}} nicely. If you explain exactly what you're looking for, I'm sure he can figure it out. He has told me, though, that he plans to be less active than an inactive user, so try [[Special:EmailUser/Beligaronia|email]] or his Wikipedia talk page for the fastest results. &mdash; <small>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<font color="#0000C8">THE TROM</font></small>]] &mdash; 21:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I Still Don't Understand ==<br />
<br />
EV Training still confuses me. . If I fought a Charizard, who gives 3SpAtk EVs, then what would happen? My Pokemon gets 3 extra points to their SpAtk? Does it have to level up? {{unsigned|ShinjiLover}}<br />
:No, it doesn't help. Try beating other 83 Charizards to fill up your Sp.Atk EV max and then level up and see what happens. 252 EVs mean +63 of the stat ''AT LEVEL 100'', not at other levels. Ah, and try signing your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 21:37, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effort Values and Stat Experience ==<br />
<br />
I saw that on the article it says that Effort Values were created in Gen. I, but weren't they created in Gen. III during the Data Structure Overhaul. The extra 63 points in the first 2 generations were determined by a hidden experience value for each stat value (max - 63,105 exp. points i think), and the amount of hidden exp. you get for a stat is equal to the opponent's base stat for that specific stat.<br />
<br />
There is more evidence to support this then the EV theory. Like if you just caught a Lapras in, say, Pokémon Crystal,and you fight 4 Grimers. If the EV theory were correct, you would get 1 point in your HP stat after using the Box Trick, but instead multiple stats rise. Isn't that because each stat rises according to every 1000 points(or something)?<br />
<br />
So I was just thinking to suggest that the EV info on Gen. I and II be moved to III, and create a link to a new page, Stat Experience? The SE theory sounds more correct then the EV one for Gens. I and II. What do you guys think? {{unsigned|Dark Boye}}<br />
<br />
* In Generations I and II we called it Stat Experience. Nowadays they're called EVs. It's calculated differently now, but it's essentially the same thing - you get faster by fighting Jolteons, and more hit points by fighting Chanseys. I think it makes sense to say they're just different versions of the same thing - after all, as far as I know, both "stat XP" and "Effort Values" are just fan-created names. --[[User:JDigital|JDigital]] 05:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
***Hi everyone! I have some questions.<br />
<br />
1. Say you have a level 90 Charmeleon and you EV Train it with Spinda (1 EV SP ATK). I have to fight it 252 times (without any pokerus or macho brace) to gain 252 SP ATK EV's (=63 SP ATK STAT PTS), right? Now, if you have a level 90 pokemon fighting against level 14-17Spinda, you can have 252 battles without leveling up, right? My question is, if I have defeated 252 Spindas and not level up and use 10 rare candies to reach level 100 after that, will all those accumulated EV's count?<br />
<br />
2. If you have maxed out your pokemon's 510 EV's, what happens to the EV's you gain by fighting other pokemon? Is there some kind of prioritizing EV's for a certain stat?<br />
<br />
[[User:Iamcharmeleon|Iamcharmeleon]] ([[User talk:Iamcharmeleon|talk]]) 09:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)IAMCHARMELEON<br />
<br />
==Stat-reducing Berries==<br />
I'd like to note some things about the Stat Reducing Berries. The fact that they reduce EV's by 10 is correct, but I wanna note that when used on a stat above 100, the stat is reduced down to 100, then each subsequent use is 10 each. Once the berry starts failing, it's either due to the stat having no EV's, or an EV amount below 10. These berries are also very useful in changing a Pokemon's EV spread, a very good thing for an In-game team to make them more competitive. <br />
Also, when used on a Level 100 Pokemon, they WILL reduce the stats, but because they can no longer level up, they cannot raise the stats back up via EV training.[[User:JoeTE|Joe T.E.]] 14:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Although you may be able to raise your stats back using stat-enhancing drinks, which are the opposite of stat reducing berries.[[User:Valorum27|Valorum27]] 00:46, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Your questions are probably answered here...==<br />
After reading this page, I found that there were a lot of complicated topics that weren't quite answered. Here're the most frequently asked questions answered:<br />
<br />
What is EV training, and how is it good?<br />
EV training is a method in which you train one Pokémon against a against a specific group of Pokémon in order to raise the Pokémon's stats. This would be like training a future sweeper against Jolteon so that the sweeper gets faster.<br />
<br />
How do I EV train?<br />
Personally, I EV train by finding trainers that have only one species of Pokémon, but others may prefer to train against wild Pokémon. Both methods are equally effective. A common one is PI Carlos just below Veilstone City. Because he has 3 Goldeen (which evolve into Seaking), he gives 3 (or 6) EV's throughout the course of one battle. Although you can have a maximum of 255 EV's in each stat, many trainers opt to put a maximum of 252 EV's in a stat. You can have a maximum of 510 EV's total (shared between stats), and every 4 EV's in a stat boost the stat at level 100 by 1 point.<br />
<br />
What about Berries?<br />
If you use a stat-reducing berry on a pokemon that has more than 100 EV's in a stat, it reduces that stat's EV's to 100. From 100 down, however, it reduces the EV's by 10. Kudos to Joe T. E.!<br />
<br />
How do I squeeze the most out of EV training?<br />
Ok, so this isn't really an FAQ, but I found some nice ideas to maximize your EV's. First off, putting EV's in a stat increased by nature can make its effect go up from +63 to +69, putting you "one point ahead" in the end!<br />
<br />
Try my EV Optimizer here: http://masd.21classes.com/pub/MASD/DavidKo/Stat_Calculator.htm<br />
<br />
[[User:PhoenixGraphix|&lt;i&gt;Phoenix&lt;/i&gt;]] 22:30, 24 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm still a little puzzeled, butI think I'm getting to understand EVs. Basically by the time I get to level 100 I'll HAVE to have my max EV numbers somewhere right? The only "EV training" is in aiming for those two max stats? Maybe use EV reducer berries to tweak. But after I get those EVs full and in a way I like them, that's all I can do, right? Timing of getting the EVs early/ect don't matter, right? The end result doesn't need babysitting from the very start it looks like/I hope?--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 05:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::A Pokémon's stats are pre-calculated, but think of it like this: the difference between the Pokémon's stat now and their stat at level <i>X</i> divided by the number of levels between them equals the stat change. As an example, if a Pokémon's stat at level 100 would be 300, and it's level 99 with 290 as its stat, its next stat gain will be 10. As long as you get all of your EV's in before level 100, all of the EV's will be factored in. <strong>[[User:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Phoenix</span>]][[User_Talk:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #AAAAAA;">Graphix</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #B0E0E6">&trade;</span>]]</strong> 02:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I have a question that isn't answered here: Is it possible to check to see how many EVs your Pokemon has in specific stat? I know that there's a guy in the Platinum Battle Tower that will let you know their IVs, but is there something like that for EVs to? --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 12:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, if you know your exact IVs, it's possible to calculate your EVs, but otherwise, no. Generally, if you're training for a particular number of EVs, you keep track of it in a notepad or something. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 15:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I never bothered with EVs or IVs till now, so I didn't keep track. So what's the formula to calculate the EVs then? Also, does the formula calculate the EVs exactly, or is it just an approximate amount? --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 15:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I don't know the formula, so I wouldn't know how exact it would be. You can probably get an aproximate however by going into a Wi-Fi battle and setting levels to 100 (if you don't already have your Pokémon at level 100), than compare the stats to the stats listed on that Pokémon's species page.<br />
::::For example, if I checked my Weavile at level 100 and its Attack stat was at 350, I could compare that to the [[Weavile (Pokémon)#Base stats|base stats]] at level 100 and figure that my Attack EV was somewhere close to maxed-out (since the highest you can get with EVs and IVs combined would be 372 on a Weavile).<br />
::::It's a rough aproxximation, but it'll give you a good idea where you're at.<br />
::::Generally, if you really want to get serious with EV training, you'll want to start fresh with a newly-caught/newly-hatched Pokémon. I've not tried it, but I believe you could also use berries that reduce EVs to "reset" your Pokémon back to 0, as well (not sure on the details of that, however). --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 21:31, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV Training for Lv 50 battles ==<br />
<br />
<p>Since there is currently a world tourney going on with a Lv 50 limit and there also is (and has been for along while) the in-game option of battling with Lv 50 pokémon, I'm surprised that I don't see more information or discussion on the topic. If you are EV training for a Lv 50 battle, then wouldn't you not particularly want 252 EV in a stat? Unless I'm mistaken, you would want floor(252/8) because you are at half the level of Lv 100 battles, where it is four EV per stat point. This would mean that raising a stat to 252 would in fact be a waste of four perfectly usable effort points! Am I mistaken here, or is this assumption correct?</p><br>[[User:TheCakeIsALie|NonaSuomi]] 02:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:That's actually wrong. You can have max EVs at like level 10 and it wouldn't hurt. <span style="font-family:Cracked; font-size:125%"><sup>[[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|<span style="color:#303030;">tc</span>]]</sup>[[User:Tc26|<span style="color:#e03828;">²₆</span>]][[User talk:Tc26|<span style="color:#303030;">tc</span>]]<sub>[[User:Tc26/Sandbox|<span style="color:#e03828;">26</span>]]</sub></span> 02:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Maxing at any level doesn't matter. It's just at level 100 where full bonus is calculated. At level 100 your Pokémon's stats will range by exactly 31 points for their IVs and exactly 63 points for their EVs. Under 100's are just fractionalized by their level: a level 50 Pokémon would thus have a 15-point or 16-point range in stats due to IVs, while the range due to EVs would be 31 or 32 points. As the Pokémon's level gets higher the discrepancy is greater between untrained and crap-IVs and trained with excellent IVs. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#DAA520">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">chidna</span>]]''' 03:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Sorry TTE, but IV points can vary a stat as much as 34 points and as little as 28 points, and EV's can vary as much as 69 points and as little as 57 points depending on the nature. Training a Pokémon earlier rather than later or vice versa has no effect on its stats at level 10, 25, 50 or 100. What appears to happen is that a Pokémon trained later will have a more extreme stat gain in the next level (<s>about 63/(100 - level)</s> (future stat (with EV's) - current stat) points more than usual if fully trained in one level). <strong>[[User:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Phoenix</span>]][[User_Talk:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #AAAAAA;">Graphix</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #B0E0E6">&trade;</span>]]</strong> 03:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I think my question has been misunderstood here. What I want to ask is this: since at level 100 it takes four effort points to add a single point in any stat, wouldn't it make sense that it would take 8 points at exactly half that level? <i>That</i> is what I am asking. Can anyone answer this for me, as it can mean the difference between 252 being the max useful amount and 248 being that number, and with 2 stats at that level, you'd have eight effort points to spare, meaning one stat point anywhere you chose... Sorry if this seems obvious to anyone, but I'm not so sure from the sources I've looked at.<br>[[User:TheCakeIsALie|NonaSuomi]] 06:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::In an attempt to answer your multi-faceted question, yes, it would be more thrifty to put only 248 EV's in a stat if you intend to keep that Pokémon at level 50. The extra point in the stat with 252 would be rounded down anyway, so putting in 248 is a much better choice. If you intend, however, to train the Pokémon to level 100, it would max out the stat with <b>only</b> 252. <strong>[[User:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Phoenix</span>]][[User_Talk:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #AAAAAA;">Graphix</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #B0E0E6">&trade;</span>]]</strong> 18:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Understood. And yes, I was asking about pokémon you intend to keep for battling at level 50, which I suppose I should have specified. I just figured since I mentioned the VGC tourneys it would be assumed, what with a lv 50 cap and all... Thanks!<br>[[User:TheCakeIsALie|NonaSuomi]] 01:03, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It depends on whether the IV is even or odd, if it's odd you need 252 to max the stat, if even only 248. Any other level and you would have to consider the whole IV and the Base stat too, but the EV needed for max stat will always be a multiple of 4. I know that this conversation is almost a year old, but having an accurate answer is important. --[[User:Sp unit 262|sp unit 262]] 04:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV distribution if multiple pokemon are used ==<br />
<br />
So only the pokemon that lands the finishing blow gets the EVs? Or do all the pokemon that were exposed in the battle get EVs? --[[User talk:Qwertyasdf|<font color="#0000C8">(QQ)<sup>∞</sup>wertyasdf</font>]] 11:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Every Pokémon that gained EXP, as a result of the defending Pokémon being defeated, gets EVs. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 17:12, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::So if i knock out a Paras by sending out Heracross, switching to Scyther and knocking it out with wing attack, they both get 1 attack EV? So both get the full effect? What if the opponent gives two or there EVs?[[User:Emperor Fox|Emperor Fox]] 01:45, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::All Pokémon who received experience recieve the full amount of EVs. Evs are not divided, unlike experience. --[[User:Valorum27|Valorum27]] 16:29, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Is this the same in Generation I/II, i.e. for stat exp? Also can we add this to the article somewhere? [[User:Smithers888|Smithers888]] 14:08, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Confused about Effort Values and Effort Points ==<br />
<br />
In the first paragraph under Generation III, it begins by describing the new effort points, but the example uses effort values:<br />
<br />
:Generation III completely overhauls the effort value structure. Defeated Pokémon give out 1, 2 or 3 ''effort points'' to a particular stat, depending on species (see list of Pokémon by effort value yield). However, in battles that do not give any experience (such as in the Battle Tower or if the Pokémon is level 100), Pokémon will not gain any ''EVs.'' At level 100, a Pokémon's stats will be one point higher in a specific stat for every four effort points gained in that stat.<br />
<br />
The way that I read the second sentence, no pokémon at any level from Generation 3 on would earn effort values since they were replaced by effort points. If effort points and effort values are the same thing, using both terms is confusing. If effort points are converted into effort values, that should be stated with the conversion rate.<br />
<br />
If a level 100 pokémon cannot gain any experience from battle, how would it be getting effort points or a stat increase at all?<br />
<br />
One more thing: Does the mew in the Generation 1 example grant 100 (points) to each effort value or 100 effort values to each stat? [[User:White Phoenix|White Phoenix]] 21:56, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:From how I see it, defeating one Mew in Generation I grants 100 points to each effort value. My interpretation of the article is that an "effort point" or "effort value point" refers to stat exp. that has been gained, and "effort value" is the total amount of effort points that has been "collected" in a particular stat. For example, a Pokémon that defeats a Mew will gain 100 effort points in each stat, and its effort values for each stat will therefore increase by 100. However, it looks like many people often say "effort values" when they really mean "effort points", which is extremely confusing. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 02:47, 21 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::So you would wind up with effort points ''and'' effort values? Oh, the effort value is in increments of effort points. It’s like having a hundred dollars in one-dollar bills. You have 100 dollar bills which is 100 dollars. But who ever says they have a hundred dollar bills in their account? [[User:White Phoenix|White Phoenix]] 02:29, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, whoever says they received 100 dollar bills? By the way, nowhere on Bulbapedia is the relationship of effort points to effort values given, or even a definition. [[User:White Phoenix|White Phoenix]] 10:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::One Effort Value = One Effort Point. The names were changed starting with Generation III it appears (from Value to Point), but the EV term is still the most commonly used.<br />
:::The article needs a bit of a re-write to clarify this; some editors have written it as Points, while others have written it as Values, which is why the current article is a little convoluted on that particular regard. I'll need to research a bit as to which name is the current "official" term. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 00:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't know about what these things were "officially" called in Generation III. However, in Diamond and Pearl:<br />
::::*The description for vitamins mention '''"base" stat'''. For example, the HP Up's description says, ''"... It raises the '''base HP''' of a single Pokémon."'' Using it on a Pokémon will say something like, ''"FEEBAS's '''base HP''' rose!"''<br />
::::*The description for EV-reducing berries also say '''"base" stat'''. For example, the Pomeg Berry's description says, ''"... Using it on a Pokémon makes it more friendly, but it also lowers its '''base HP'''."'' Using it on a Pokémon will say something like, ''"However, its '''base HP''' fell!"'', ''"Its '''base HP''' fell!"'', or ''"Its '''base HP''' can't go lower."''<br />
::::Similar wording occurs with the other vitamins and EV-reducing berries as well. Of course, the items I mentioned actually modify the EVs, and not what we (on Pokémon fan sites) would call "base stats". [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 00:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::*Does the 100 effort values to all stats when defeating a mew apply only to generation 1, or does it apply to generation II as well?(Forger03 at 10:33pm on February 03, 2010)<br />
:::::That should be valid for both Generation I and Generation II. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 17:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV Gain at Level 100 ==<br />
<br />
It might be worth mentioning that while you can't EV train at level 100, you can use vitamins. [[User:Smythe|Smythe]] 10:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== A Few Questions... ==<br />
<br />
Having read through the whole talk page, there are a few things I'm still not entirely clear on.<br />
<br />
Firstly, does the level at which a Pokémon gains it's EVs matter? For instance, if I were to train a certain Pokémon to have 252 HP EVs at level 40, and then do the same with an identical Pokémon at level 70 and then raise both up to level 100 will the ultimate result be that both Pokémon have the same maxed HP stat?<br />
<br />
Secondly, Is it smarter to maximize two selected stats of a Pokémon, or to spread the EVs around evenly? Example: Gengar has naturally high Speed and Special Attack stats, so, would this Pokémon be most competitive if it had 252 EVs in each of these stats? or would that just make it less flexible in battle?<br />
<br />
Thirdly, I read somewhere on this page that "All Pokémon that gain EXP from defeating another Pokémon will get EVs." Does this include EXP gained through the use of an EXP. Share? If so, do the EVs get divided among the Pokémon in the same manner as the EXP? Or does each Pokémon that gained EXP from a battle then gain the full EV yield?<br />
<br />
I apologise if any of these questions have already been answered and I simply missed them... ~ [[User:Ender Phoenix|Ender Phoenix]] 06:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
#Level won't matter, so long as it's not at level 100 when it gains the EVs (so it still has level-ups left to receive the bonuses). At level 100, both of your examples would have the same stats (not counting any differences in [[nature]] or [[IVs]]).<br />
#This depends, but generally speaking, you'll focus on two main stats. There are some instances where you'll want a bit of a spread, but normally you'll always max out HP on a defensive Pokémon and put the rest of the points into either one or both of the defense stats, or on an offensive Pokémon, perhaps allocate the majority of the points to Speed and the rest to one of the attack stats. Sites like Smogon.com list popular movesets and EV spreads for nearly every Pokémon used competitively, and can be a good way to get a feel for how a competitive set might look.<br />
#Exp. Share will split the EXP, but both Pokémon will get the full EVs. If you defeat a {{p|Pikachu}} while one of your other party members has an Exp. Share, both your active Pokémon and the one with the Exp. Share will get 2 Speed EVs. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 03:50, 6 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::Thanks for your answers, thats exactly what I needed to know! ~ [[User:Ender Phoenix|Ender Phoenix]] 00:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Related question: If a Pokemon holding a Macho Brace or other EV-affecting item is switched into battle, and therefore two or more Pokemon earn experience from the battle WITHOUT the use of an Exp. Share, do the Pokemon without the EV-affecting item receive the normal number of EVs or the increased number? I know that Pokerus affects only the Pokemon experiencing it, but I can't find any description of the mechanics for a normal shared experience scenario as opposed to one involving an Exp. Share. [[User:Mousewings|Mousewings]] 08:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Box Trick ==<br />
<br />
The article never states if you can still use the box trick to raise stats when at level 100. I'm wondering if you can un-train then re-train the EVs of lv 100 Pokémon.[[User:Valorum27|Valorum27]] 00:51, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
Never mind... I'm really stupid.<br />
<br />
== An Additional Question ==<br />
Sorry if this seems a bit picky, but I wanted a direct answer to this question rather than assume the answer. I know you have 510 EVs to distribute to a single Pokémon, and you can only use 255 EVs for one stat. Is it possible to max out a stat (spend 255 EVs on it), but still continue to waste your 510 EVs on that stat? Like, if you invested 255 EVs to speed (and thus only have 255 EVs total to work with) then battled a Zubat, would you now have only 254 EVs to work with or do you still have 255? [[User:Goddessofevil9|Goddessofevil9]] 01:46, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The 255 cap is just that, a cap. Once you get 255 in a stat, no other EVs in that stat will be counted, so you still have 255 EVs left to put into other stats. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 01:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Really? I thought once you reached 252 you were just throwing away EV points. Are you completely sure?[[User:Emperor Fox|Emperor Fox]] 01:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It is "throwing away EV points" because you need 4 EV points to get 1 stat point, but you put in 3 EV points to fill the max to 255, meaning you never get your 1 stat point out of it. But I wasn't sure if you were able to continue wasting. [[User:Goddessofevil9|Goddessofevil9]] 02:04, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Eh... i was unclear. Apart from the wasted 3, i thought you could continue gaining EVs until you'd wasted all of them on one stat. Though if it really does stop gaining EVs after 255, that would answer my question of "Why is it a cap if you can keep wasting them?" Frankly, it's fantastic news, since I'm EV training a zangoose the horribly lazy way. Pokérus, Power Bracer and beating a whole bunch of floatzel. (Which, if I'm not mistaken, nets me 4 speed EVs and 8 attack with each one defeated. Anyone care to correct me if I'm wrong?)[[User:Emperor Fox|Emperor Fox]] 02:13, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::So it seems Jïörüjï Ðērākō is right in that it does cap. Just had someone test it out so let the lazy EV training begin! [[User:Goddessofevil9|Goddessofevil9]] 02:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::As for the why it caps, 1 byte is capable of storing 256 different values. One of those values is zero, leaving 255 others. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#A1871F;">Werdnae</span>]]</sc> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:31, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Excuse me... ==<br />
<br />
HI, I'm new!... That aside, could someone please explain the following situation? I think it might be useful to people... Anyway, I came across EVs recently and decided to train my [[Kadabra (Pokémon)|Alakaz]] in Sp. Atk. and Speed. His EVs were already maxed, so I thought of using the EV-reducing berries. I also tried some on a {{p|Houndoom}}, for happiness. These are the messages I got:<br />
<br />
I used a lot of [[Grepa berry|Grepa berries]], and then some {{b|Kelpsy}} and {{b|Qualot}}. His happiness was always at max. At first I got the message "Alakaz adores you! Its base Sp. Def. fell." After some Grepas, I got the message "It won't have any effect." Then I fed him some Kelpsy, and I got the message "Alakaz adores you! Its base Attack fell"... Then I tried a few Pomeg berries on [[Houndoom (Pokémon)|Houndark]]. At first the normal message showed, but I didn't see the HP go down. Then, after the third one, I got "Houndark became more friendly. Its base HP won't go lower." <br />
<br />
Can someone please explain? I'm [[User:Togepikachu|TogePikachu]], thank you. 10:24, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:*Your Alakaz must have had maximum happiness, as well as some Attack and Sp. Def. EPs. Using a reduction berry on a Pokémon with maximum happiness but nonzero EV will give you the "adores you" message. But once you erased all of Alakaz's Sp. Def. EPs, since Alakaz already had maximum happiness and 0 Sp. Def. EV, more Grepa berries would not have any effect (and the game told you). Alakaz still had some Attack EPs, so Kelpsy berries would still have an effect by reducing its Attack EV.<br />
:*Your Houndark had 11-20 HP EPs before you used the Pomeg berries (after the Pomeg berries, it had 0), but that was not enough to make a difference in its HP stat at that level. Your Houndark did not reach maximum happiness even after you gave it the Pomeg berries, so using further Pomeg berries would still have an effect by increasing its happiness.<br />
:[[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 20:08, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 1st and Second Gen ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible in the first and second generation to see when your stats have maxed BESIDES fighting the E4 then Box Tricking? I want to know when to stop training Mewtwo over there. Haha. [[User:PoketoaTheFirefox|PoketoaTheFirefox]] 20:00, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's not possible to definitively determine if your Pokémon is maxed out (unless if one of its stats has IV 15 and that stat was maxed before - then you know it's absolutely maxed) without outside hardware, such as a cheating device. Couldn't reduce EVs until late Generation III, so it's really hard to determine a Generation I or II Pokémon's stat potential. If you don't see any stat improvement after a large number of battles, then of course that may suggest that maximum stats have been reached, but that's not a guarantee. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 07:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Is "Effort values" an official terminology? ==<br />
<br />
I see in the Pokémon Emerald Official Encyclopaedia (a Japanese official book), and in the Route 9 Department Store of Pokémon Black & White, effort value is called "基礎ポイント" (base point) in Japanese. I want to know, is the terminology "Effort values / 努力値" (as well as base stats, IV, others..) referred in any official media? Or it's actually a widely-used fanon terminology like "Masuda method" --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 14:50, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I have never seen official Pokémon media use "effort value" or "effort point". In fact, in the English Generation IV games, the descriptions for the vitamins (HP Up, Protein, etc.) and the EV-reduction berries (Pomeg, Kelpsy, etc.) also mention "base" stat. For example, the in-game description of the HP Up item is, "''A nutritious drink for Pokémon. It raises the '''base HP''' of one Pokémon.''" I think that IV (individual value) is also an unofficial term, but I'm not sure about other terminology. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 15:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think the reason that they do this is because although IV's and EV's are separate data, when calculating stats they are pretty much just addons to the base stats. So, one EV point actually ''raises the base stat'' of a specific Pokémon by 1/8 of a point, and one IV point raises it by a half point. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 17:49, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Apparently there's an official name for them now - "Base Points". [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 21:55, 5 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::So perhaps the official (English) term for the ''combined effect of base stat, IV, and EV'', is "base stat", and not just EVs specifically? [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Actually, I think we might need some more clarification (maybe an exact quote) about what they really mean when they say "base point" or "base stat". Swampert (or anyone), could you provide a translation of the text that you mentioned? [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:24, 6 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::And apparently I didn't see it in the first post (the "base point" thingy). I'm dumb >_< [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 22:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::From my understanding, 基礎ポイント means and '''only''' means effort value, since the book says ''基礎ポイント(base points) can affect about 60 stat value when Lv.100''(translated), and a NPC in Route 9 Department Store says ''The items to rise 基礎ポイント are sold on Floor 3''. I haven't found an official English term, it should be ascertained in the English version of Black and White.--[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 14:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Thank you Swampert. We'll have to see if Ztobor might be correct that the English games will translate "基礎ポイント" as "base point". [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:29, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effect on stat points ==<br />
<br />
The German Pokéwiki has this to say about effort values. Here is a rough translation:<br />
<br />
"At level 100, four EV's in a particular stat will result in an increase of one point for that stat. At other levels, the number of EV's needed to do so is as follows:<br />
<br />
*Level 0-19: 40<br />
*Level 20-29: 20<br />
*Level 30-39: 13.3<br />
*Level 40-49: 10<br />
*Level 50-59: 8<br />
*Level 60-69: 6.6<br />
*Level 70-79: 5.7<br />
*Level 80-89: 5<br />
*Level 90-99: 4.4<br />
*Level 100: 4"<br />
<br />
Should this be included here? --[[User:Locrian|Locrian]] 13:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I was under the understanding that it was 4 EVs = 1 point for all levels... &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 06:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You can add it if you want. I don't see what the problem would be, since it would show people the "true" effect of EVs at certain levels. For example, you would expect a level 1 Chimchar, with 31 Attack IV and 252 Attack EV, to have 7 Attack (by the formula) instead of 69 Attack (6+252/4). [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:00, 16 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::i say add it because i was gonna ask why my pokes were getting 1 pt every 8 evs when its supposed to be 4 evs i thought. looking at that chart it makes sense because they were at 55-58 when i was training them. [[User:TerrorKingMugen|TerrorKingMugen]] 16:47, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::So what my question now is...when you level up, do these EVs "catch up" with their proper level? So if I EV trained a Bulbasaur at level 2 and he got +1 Sp ATK because he had 40 Sp ATK EVs, once he got to level 41, and theoretically gained no EVs, would that become +4 Sp Atk, or did I just screw Bulbasaur out of points? [[User:Poke poke poke|Poke poke poke]] 23:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Technically, that chart is only an approximation. You didn't screw Bulbasaur out of any EV's, but it's not always obvious the work that the EV's are doing. To answer your question, yes, that +1 you got at Level 2 will... actually grow into +20 at Level 41. The figure of "40" only works for Level 10. At level 2, it actually takes 200 EV's to raise the Sp.Atk by 1 point. It's just that that +20 will be spread about through the other 38 levels, so you won't see it discretely. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 19:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== official name? ==<br />
<br />
Serebii are reporting that an NPC on Isshu Route 9 gives an official name to EVs as "base points". Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] 15:11, 30 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Please see the discussion above, "Is 'Effort values' an official terminology?". Since Black and White haven't been released in any language other than Japanese, we only know that the term used in Japanese is "基礎ポイント", which people have translated as "base point". We'll just have to wait for the English-language release to find out the official English name. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 03:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== That Gen V section ==<br />
<br />
Is it proven yet? --[[User:Turtwig Lover|Turtwig Lover]] 12:18, 12 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, here: [http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79340&page=62]. [[User:Pikiwyn|<font color="#d0000d" face="boopee">'''''Pikiwyn'''''</font>]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt><sup>'''''<font color="black">talk</font>'''''</sup></tt>]] 12:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Still a bit confused... ==<br />
<br />
So are Rare Candies okay if you've already got all your desired 512 EVs? Or is it better to level it up through battling, manually, all the way to Level 100?<br />
<br />
And would the following method work to get the best possible stats for a Pokemon with the same IVs?<br />
Say: a Level 50 Gyarados with mixed random EVs via battling throughout the storyline, fed as many stat-reducing berries as possible, and then battled the correct number of the correct type of Pokemon to get 252/252/6 EVs, and then leveled up with a bunch of Rare Candies to Level 100?<br />
:If the Pokémon has 510 EVs total then it doesn't matter whether you use Rare Candies or Battle experience to further level it up. And yes, that method should work. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:45, 24 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gen III Deoxys ==<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned somewhere in the article, that the only Pokémon that gets stats recalculated at the end of every battle in Gen III is {{p|Deoxys}}, as opposed to the other Pokémon, which get their stats recalculated in the box or by leveling up. I recall, when I first got an event Deoxys in my FireRed game, I noticed that it wasn't getting normal stat recalculation upon leveling up when I was EV training it. Then I noticed that in FR/LG/E, the alternate formes of Deoxys have that behavior upon battling: their stats grow after every battle instead of the normal way of gaining a boost upon level-up. This doesn't happen with the normal Deoxys from R/S. Anyone feel free to add it to the article (and confirm it, if you have time and Deoxys, too). '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 21:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== As for the "recalculations" in Gen. V ==<br />
<br />
I'm rather confused as to what "stats being recalculated after every battle" entails. Does it mean that even if, say, your Emboar is fully EV trained, its EVs can still be changed just by its being in more battles? Sorry, I might just be missing some obvious wording, but it'd help if someone would clear this up.... [[User:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Purple">Puppy</font>]] of [[User talk:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Red">Doom</font>]] and [[Poochyena (Pokémon)|<font color="Blue">Destruction</font>]] 19:43, 27 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
:In Generations III and IV, if, say, you have a Pokémon (not Deoxys) with 100 Attack and zero Attack EVs, if it then gains 252 Attack EVs without leveling up, evolving, going in the PC box, or using any vitamins, its Attack will still be 100 until you do one of those things. In Generation V, this is changed so that increases in EVs will automatically increase stats as appropriate after every battle without the need of the [[box trick]] or similar. —[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] 19:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, so basically the stats are fully realized ''when you finish EV Training'' versus when reaching Level 100? And level gain is no longer required to have EVs account ''at all''? Exciting. Thank you very much for the clarification. [[User:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Purple">Puppy</font>]] of [[User talk:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Red">Doom</font>]] and [[Poochyena (Pokémon)|<font color="Blue">Destruction</font>]] 19:13, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effort Values checker? ==<br />
<br />
According to the articles regarding [[Blackthorn City]] and [[Opelucid City]], there is a lady who gives you a rough idea of your Pokemon's EVs. Can we get a list of phrases? In my playing experience, the only thing this person has ''ever'' said about any of my Pokémon is "It looks like your [Pokémon] ... could try a little harder", whether it's my Starter (who has long since maxed out a few EVs) or a freshly bred/caught Pokemon with no EVs at all. --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]] 18:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)''<br />
:To my understanding, there are only two phrases. She will say "Could try a little harder" if you have not hit 510, and "has put in great effort" if it is at 510.[[User:Poke poke poke|Poke poke poke]] 23:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Switching out ==<br />
<br />
How does switching out work with EVs? Say I have a Nosepass, holding a Power Belt, as my lead Pokémon, and find a wild Geodude. I automatically send out my Nosepass, of course, then switch to my Weavile and KO the geodude. Will my Nosepass now gain 5 Defense EVs (Geodude's 1 given + 4 from the Power Belt) or 1, or none? On a side note, this page is getting pretty long. Are article talk pages ever archived or does that only apply to user talk pages? [[User:EnosShayrem|<span style="color:#697437;">Enos</span>]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Shay</span>]][[Kyurem (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#0088FF;">rem</span>]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|<sup><span style="color:#000000;">Ta</span><span style="color:#BBBBBB;">lk</span></sup>]] 16:36, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:OK, I didn't see the conversation a few above me, and unless I'm horribly wrong here, the power items will always give extra EVs when the Pokémon gains EVs from battle, so goodbye. [[User:EnosShayrem|<span style="color:#697437;">Enos</span>]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Shay</span>]][[Kyurem (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#0088FF;">rem</span>]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|<sup><span style="color:#000000;">Ta</span><span style="color:#BBBBBB;">lk</span></sup>]] 16:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Generation II confusion about special ==<br />
<br />
It says generation II is the same as generation I, and the special attack and special defence stat share the EV for special. That makes sense for backwards compatibility, but when I'm trying to keep track of my EVs in generation II I can't work out which one is used.<br />
<br />
Example: Hoothoot has sp. atk. and sp. def. of 36 and 56 respectively. Generation II uses just one EV for both, so when I kill a hoothoot, what gets added to the single EV for special? 36 or 56? I'm trying to keep track of how many EVs (or stat exp) my pokémon have earned, but don't know what to do for special and I can't find the answer anywhere. --[[User:Pan|Pan]] 09:36, 30 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==So...==<br />
This may be the same as a question above but is it possible to put more than 252 or 255 EVs into a stat? Like all 510? Or does it stop at 252 or 255? [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 18:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
:It stops at 255. But since 4 EVs are needed to increase a stat by one at level 100, there's not much point putting the final three into the stat. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:44, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is this what is needed to max out stats: IVs of 31 + the right nature/characteristic + 255 EVs? And is it true that you can only max out ''2'' stats? [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 21:59, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think that's right, I have a Hacked {{p|Arceus}} that was supposed to have Perfect stats, But the nature redid the stats so that only HP and Attack remained maxed. BTW this question seems to be more suited to the forums. [[User:Truthseeker4449|Truth]][[User talk:Truthseeker4449|seeker]][[Special:Contributions/Truthseeker4449|4449]] 22:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Working in Gen V ==<br />
<br />
Okay, first of all I've been EV training for a while in my Pokemon white. I check the stats before and after every battle, and the stats are never recalculated for the said Pokemon. Can anyone explain this to me? [[User:Flygonfanno1|Flygonfanno1]]<br />
<br />
Yes, I have the same problem. [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 18:52, 16 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:<s>From the Generation III section, still relevant in Generation V: "For every Pokémon that has gained Effort Points in battle, stats will be recalculated upon leveling up, except for Deoxys, whose stats are recalculated after every battle instead."</s> Nevermind, I was thinking about Gen. IV. [[User:Shiny Porygon|Shiny Porygon]] 18:35, 29 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Shiny Porygon, the Gen V section tells you that they're now recalculated after every battle, not after levelling up.<br />
<br />
::It may just be that your Pokémon's at a low level, so a small amount of EVs don't make a difference yet. What level is the Pokémon you're EV training? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 14:57, 29 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Working with the earliest form of EV training ==<br />
<br />
I just got the base stats of the Pokemon list printed from bulbapedia and I need a bit of guidance. I don't really understand how much effort value a Pokemon will yield if it has a different base Special Attack than Special Defense. There was only Special in gen 1 and the Stat EXP I read gave a poor example such as defeating 656 Mew give Max EVS since it's obvious that he has a base stat of 100 all over, meaning he can end up with all the same stats at level 100 with Max DVs and EVs. If an Eevee is defeated on Pokemon Yellow, since that is your first rival battle with an Eevee, does Pikachu gain an average of 54.17 Stat EXP in all stats or does he gain a separate 55 HP, 55 Attack, 55 Speed, 50 Defense and 45 or 65 Special Stat EXP? Or does Pikachu gain a total of 325 Stat EXP? How does this work and how do you keep track of this? I wish someone answered me on Yahoo Answers so I wouldn't have to ask here. ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 23:32, 12 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
<br />
Or since 45 and 65 /2 is 55 on average would it gain an average of 55 Special instead? ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 23:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
:The Generation I special stat is listed in the footer of the stats template for the relevant Pokemon. They can't be determined from the Gen II and onwards stats. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:18, 13 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Where is the footer of the stats template for the first 151 Pokemon? Also if I managed to take down an Eevee, 3 Pidgey, a Rattata, a Mankey, a Nidoran ♂, a Nidoran ◙, and a Spearow in Yellow with Pikachu in that order, how would the Stat EXP or their base stats converted to Stat EXP add up to my Pikachu's overall stats? ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 03:43, 13 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
<br />
I'm going to inform you that I have found the template. I may need to ask my mom to print a separate page only for gen 1 since it's a bad idea to mix up Special Attacks with Special Defenses base stats for Pokemon Stadium as it doesn't help me very much. But you could pretty much explain how those are converted after I read my stats knowing that they must have different base stats everywhere. ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 03:48, 13 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
<br />
Hi, i think there's something wrong stated:<br />
<br />
in Generation one the Exp all shares also STat Experience, i could even proof it if you wish(or you do it yourself :p )<br />
<br />
So please fix this^_^<br />
<br />
But i dont know if Stat exp is really shared, or every Pokemon gets the Basic undevided value, so if you have fun to discover that, pls do it =P, i trained 6 pokemon and after my fighter(only one pokemon fighted the hole time) got maxstats the other pokemons still get stat exp via boxtrick, but have increased there stats randomly if i didnt fought with them.<br />
<br />
So i guess they will be DEVIDED ;)<br />
<br />
cu<br />
<br />
--[[User:Wbuster|Wbuster]] 18:51, 2 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gen. I Stat Exp. - Divided by 4 or 8? ==<br />
<br />
The formula on this page for Gen. I has a 4 in the denominator, but the stat calculation formula on the page for IVs has the denominator for Stat Exp as 8. Which one is it?--[[User:RiverAura|<font color="#00CCFF">River</font>]][[User_Talk:RiverAura|<font color="#00FFCC">Aura</font>]] 20:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== So For Clarification for Gen 1/2 ==<br />
<br />
Since there's no joined EV cap between the different stats, there's no need to worry about EV training in a 'useless' stat on a Pokémon because all stats can eventually be trained to max anyway?<br />
<br />
Is there any way to calculate the number when a stat is finally maxed out in this generation? The ranges given on the page include the effects of natures which don't exist here. -- [[User:CryptRat|CryptRat]] 01:42, 20 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
How can you tell if your Pokemon has certain EVs? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] 01:22, 7 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
Wouldn't {{t|Fighting}}-type Pokemon receive a lot of [[Attack]] and even more [[Defense]] EVs because of their [[type]] advantages? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] 01:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
*I do not think so, due to EV points being based on the pokemon they fight. IVs, however, are based on the pokemon, and do effect their stats much like EVS, but are Hereditary rather than earned. Hope That helped --[[User:Kajoman|Kajoman]] ([[User talk:Kajoman|talk]]) 19:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
*Almost forgot. You can Calculate your IVs here: http://veekun.com/dex/gadgets/stat_calculator. EVs, however, are a bit trickier, and are probably just easier to record as you earn them --[[User:Kajoman|Kajoman]] ([[User talk:Kajoman|talk]]) 19:55, 26 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effort points ==<br />
<br />
What are effort points? Does the article directly define them? Are they different from effort values in any way? [[Special:Contributions/Enervation|<span style="color:black">~</span>]][[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 22:00, 11 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gen V section needs an update ==<br />
<br />
I found out through my own training recently that in Black and White Versions, a second level gained by defeating a single opponent causes the effort points from the defeated opponent to be added into the stats for the second level gained and all other levels gained from that victory. I tried to make an edit about this to the Generation V section, but I doubt I made it acceptable. If anyone could confirm my findings, and also make appropriate changes to the article, that would be fantastic. Thanks. [[User:Superbreeder|Super]][[User talk:Superbreeder|breeder]] 23:41, 11 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV training section? ==<br />
<br />
Would it be better to make the EV training section here, make an entire new page for it, or just add a Tips section for EV trainers? Support, discussion, and help from other developers would be appreciated --[[User:Kajoman|Kajoman]] ([[User talk:Kajoman|talk]]) 19:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== join avenue ==<br />
<br />
In black 2 and white 2, if you open up a gym or kitchen, they sell things that raise stats, or ev's. And if you open a salon, you can lower the stats. I want to know by how much. [[User:Deoxys80|Deoxys80]] ([[User talk:Deoxys80|talk]]) 16:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
I think it gives you ev's based on the lv of training i.e, Attack Lv.4 gives 4 effort values, Speed Lv.8 gives 8 evs, Ect.[[User:Glalie Power|Glalie Power]] ([[User talk:Glalie Power|talk]]) 02:18, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV Points Earned? ==<br />
<br />
*How do you know I you receive any extra EV points. Are they shown in the stats each time you level up? --[[User:Kid Sonic|Kid Sonic]] ([[User talk:Kid Sonic|talk]]) 00:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
**4 EVs are equal to 1 base point for a stat. You do not need to level up to earn EV STATS. You earn them after enough battles (based on the Pokemon you fight or the "Power" held items. --[[User:Kid Sonic|Kid Sonic]] ([[User talk:Kid Sonic|talk]]) 03:02, 16 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== When using EV-reducing berries ==<br />
<br />
*CAUTION: When using these kinds of berries to get rid of unwanted EVs, '''the base stat gets lowered by one point'''. For example, if your Shuckle has 124 HP, using a Pomeg Berry will lower it to 123. --[[User:Kid Sonic|Kid Sonic]] ([[User talk:Kid Sonic|talk]]) 02:58, 16 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The FULL EV calculation for ANY level ==<br />
<br />
Something that I found very annoying is that the listed EV calculation is one that works only for level 100 pokémon.<br />
After some testing, this seems to be the correct calculation:<br />
<br />
''Stat boost = EV*level/400''<br />
<br />
then that number is rounded ''down'' to the closest integer.<br />
<br />
<br />
Examples:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''120 EVs at level 100:'''<br />
<br />
120*100/400 = 30 stat boost<br />
<br />
<br />
'''120 EVs at level 25:'''<br />
<br />
120*25/400 = 7.5 stat boost<br />
<br />
7.5 rounded down = 7 stat boost<br />
<br />
<br />
Can this please be updated to the article page? I'm playing pokémmo atm and nobody seems to know anything other than "4 EVs = 1 stat boost", but that only applies to level 100 pokémon, so this article page indirectly causes false (or incomplete) information to be spread. {{unsigned|Mornedil}}<br />
:This formula actually does seem quite helpful. I support adding it to the page. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 01:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== EV Training ==<br />
So here it is. Im training 3 Charmanders and 2 Charizards for an "ultimate team"(I already have the 6th at 100). I've obviously been using the Macho Brace, and im also EV training them in specific stats. But the problem is, i haven't been counting the EV's accumulated, as some people do. So does anybody know the rough approximation of when a pokémon reaches its first maxed EV number with a Macho Brace? I reall don't want to mess up their training. Much appreciated.--[[User:XWaffle117x|XWaffle117x]] ([[User talk:XWaffle117x|talk]]) 01:40, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:A single stat can only have 255 EVs, as such, unless the [[IV]] of the stat is known, it isn't possible to know if a stat is fully maxed out if the EVs are not kept track of. If you can figure out the IV for that stat, then it is possible to know how many EVs have been accumulated. Alternatively, certain people will give your Pokémon an Effort Ribbon if your Pokémon has attained 510 EVs. In Emerald, this person is located in [[Slateport_City#Energy_Guru|Slateport City]]. In Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum this person is found in [[Sunyshore_Market#Effort_Ribbons|Sunnyshore City Market]], and in HeartGold and SoulSilver this person is found in [[Blackthorn City]] in the House northeast of Pokémon Center. In Black and White (I'm not sure if its for Black 2 and White 2) a person is found in Opelucid City who will tell if a Pokémon has 510 EVs. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 02:31, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Alright. I already knew a good amount of things about the EV's(like how many go into each stat, max #, etc.). But i was just wondering if there was a good guess on which level I should start training on the other stat. But i did forget about the girl in Slateport, i'll just have to trade over from FireRed to check if i have hit max for the stat. Thanks for your help and time!!--[[User:XWaffle117x|XWaffle117x]] ([[User talk:XWaffle117x|talk]]) 07:40, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Does decreasing Effort Values decrease stats? ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I am kind of new to EV training, and being as I just recently got my platinum reset, I was wondering at later levels, if you clear effort values, does it decrease the stat?[[User:Max2liam|Max2liam]] ([[User talk:Max2liam|talk]]) 01:39, 6 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, it does, but it depends how much Effort values you decrease. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 15:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User {{u|SnorlaxMonster}} has suggested moving this page to [[Base stat]]. I oppose this. I believe the official reference to EVs as base stats was a mistake on the part of those who wrote up the information release - the term does not even accurately describe what they are. "Base" in this context implies before changing or modification, which is essentially the opposite of what EVs are. However, regardless of whether or not the official reference to EVs as base stats was an accident, changing it at this point in time will only cause a lot of confusion, in part because the term doesn't describe it properly and in part because there is already something else called base stats. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:If they're still calling it "base stats" when the game is released, that's the official term, so it doesn't matter how wrong or inaccurate it is; we '''must''' use it. In the meantime, "base stats" is the only officially-given term for it (mistake or not), so it's probably the most accurate option we have at the moment. Whether we want to actually move it yet and then perhaps have to move it again, that's probably for the staff to decide. For what it's worth, SnorlaxMonster also put up a move template on the current "base stat" page, suggesting the alternate title "species stat"; while I'm not fond of the suggested title itself, I do like the idea of moving that article away from the title "base stat" regardless of whether this article gets moved to that title. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 21:04, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
:'''Please discuss the requested move on [[Talk:Base stats]]. There is already a section for it there.''' [[User:Bwburke94|Bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 21:06, 9 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
::This is a separate issue from the discussion on [[Talk:Base stats]]. Both are proposals by {{u|SnorlaxMonster}}, but one is to move Effort values --> Base stats, the other to move Base stats --> Species stats. They are not the same thing at all, and the former move happening doesn't necessarily mean the latter move will happen - it is a different discussion. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 21:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Muk_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_II_learnset&diff=1950188Muk (Pokémon)/Generation II learnset2013-08-09T20:04:52Z<p>Viskiv: /* By leveling up */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{pokelinkback|089|Muk|2}}<br />
__NOTOC__<br />
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====<br />
{{learnlist/levelh|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|Start|Poison Gas|Poison|&mdash;|55|40}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|Start|Pound|Normal|40|100|35}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|Start|Harden|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|23|Minimize|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|31|Screech|Normal|&mdash;|85|40}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|33|Harden|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|37|Disable|Normal|&mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|45|Sludge|Poison|65|100|20||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|45|Acid Armor|Poison|&mdash;|&mdash;|40}}<br />
{{learnlist/level2|60|Sludge Bomb|Poison|90|100|10||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/levelf|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
<br />
====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tmh|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM01|DynamicPunch|Fighting|100|50|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM03|Curse|???|&mdash;|&mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM06|Toxic|Poison|&mdash;|85|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM07|Zap Cannon|Electric|100|50|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|&mdash;|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|&mdash;|&mdash;|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM13|Snore|Normal|40|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|150|90|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM17|Protect|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM19|Giga Drain|Grass|60|100|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM20|Endure|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM21|Frustration|Normal|&mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM25|Thunder|Electric|120|70|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM27|Return|Normal|&mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM31|Mud-Slap|Ground|20|100|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM32|Double Team|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM33|Ice Punch|Ice|75|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM34|Swagger|Normal|&mdash;|90|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM35|Sleep Talk|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM36|Sludge Bomb|Poison|90|100|10||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|120|85|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM41|ThunderPunch|Electric|75|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM44|Rest|Psychic|&mdash;|&mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM45|Attract|Normal|&mdash;|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM46|Thief|Dark|40|100|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm2|TM48|Fire Punch|Fire|75|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tmf|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
<br />
====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====<br />
{{learnlist/breedh|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed2|{{MSP|109|Koffing}}{{MSP|110|Weezing}}|Haze|Ice|&mdash;|&mdash;|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed2|{{MSP|092|Gastly}}{{MSP|093|Haunter}}{{MSP|094|Gengar}}|Lick|Ghost|20|100|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed2|{{MSP|092|Gastly}}{{MSP|093|Haunter}}{{MSP|094|Gengar}}{{MSP|200|Misdreavus}}|Mean Look|Normal|&mdash;|&mdash;|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/breedf|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
<br />
====By [[move tutor|tutoring]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tutorh|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
{{learnlist/tutor2|Flamethrower|Fire|95|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tutor2|Thunderbolt|Electric|95|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tutorf|Muk|poison|poison|2|1}}<br />
<br />
====By a prior [[evolution]]====<br />
{{Learnlist/prevoh|Muk|Poison|Poison|2|1}}<br />
{{Learnlist/prevo2null}}<br />
{{Learnlist/prevof|Muk|Poison|Poison|2|1}}<br />
<br />
[[zh:臭臭泥/第二世代技能表]]</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Fallarbor_Town&diff=1950167Fallarbor Town2013-08-09T19:30:01Z<p>Viskiv: /* Poké Mart */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Town infobox<br />
|name=Fallarbor Town<br />
|jpname=ハジツゲタウン<br />
|jptrans=Hajitsuge Town<br />
|image=Fallarbor Town E.png<br />
|slogan=A farm community with small gardens.<br />
|region=Hoenn<br />
|east=Route 113<br />
|regioneast=Hoenn<br />
|west=Route 114<br />
|regionwest=Hoenn<br />
|colordark=708030<br />
|colormed=839b47<br />
|colorlight=98B860<br />
|generation=3<br />
}}<br />
[[File:Fallarbor Town RS.png|thumb|Fallarbor Town in {{game|Ruby and Sapphire|s}}, with the [[Contest Hall]]]]<br />
<br />
'''Fallarbor Town''' (Japanese: '''ハジツゲタウン''' ''Hajitsuge Town'') is a small farming community in northwest [[Hoenn]]. The town's only notable landmark is the Contest Hall, which is replaced with a {{pkmn|Battle Tent}} in {{game|Emerald}}.<br />
<br />
To the west of the town is {{rt|114|Hoenn}} and the [[Fossil Maniac]]'s House, and to the east is {{rt|113|Hoenn}}. Fallarbor Town is extremely close to [[Mt. Chimney]], so much of the ash from the volcano constantly falls near the town. In the fields of Fallarbor, the locals plant seedlings of hardy trees that thrive even in volcanic ash. Fallarbor Town seems to be based on {{wp|Ōita Prefecture|Oita}}, {{wp|Japan}}.<br />
<br />
==Places of Interest==<br />
===Contest Hall===<br />
In both {{2v2|Ruby|Sapphire}}, the [[Rank#Main series|Super Rank]] {{pkmn|Contest}} [[Contest Hall|Hall]] is located here. In {{game|Emerald}}, however, it is replaced by a {{pkmn|Battle Tent}}, with all contests having moved to [[Lilycove City]]. The sign outside in {{2v2|Ruby|Sapphire}} the sign reads:<br />
<br />
{{sign|RS|header|}}<br />
{{sign|RS|POKéMON CONTESTS}}<br />
{{sign|RS|SUPER RANK REGISTRATION}}<br />
{{sign|RS|"Burst on to the POKéMON scene!"}}<br />
{{sign|RS|footer|}}<br />
<br />
===Move Relearner===<br />
On the west edge of town, is the home of the [[Move relearner]], who will teach a Pokémon any move that it could have previously learned through [[level]]-up, but for whatever reason had not, for the price of a {{DL|Exchangeable item|Heart Scale}}.<br />
<br />
{{sign|E|header|}}<br />
{{sign|E|MOVE TUTOR'S HOUSE}}<br />
{{sign|E|"New moves taught to POKéMON."}}<br />
{{sign|E|footer|}}<br />
<br />
===Professor Cozmo's house===<br />
On the south side of the town is [[Professor Cozmo]]'s house, where he studies meteorites. He is not home at first, but will be there after the events at [[Meteor Falls]]. Professor Cozmo will trade {{TM|27|Return}} for a {{key|III|Meteorite}}. Next to his house is what appears to be a modestly-sized meteor crater, which in fact hides a {{DL|Valuable item|Nugget}}.<br />
{{left clear}}<br />
<br />
==Demographics==<br />
===Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire===<br />
In {{game|Ruby and Sapphire|s}}, the population of Fallarbor Town is 23. This is a sizable population for a desert farming community.<br />
<br />
==Poké Mart==<br />
{{shop|}}<br />
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Great Ball|600}}|{{shopitem|Antidote|100}}}}<br />
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Parlyz Heal|200}}|{{shopitem|Super Potion|700}}}}<br />
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|X Special|350}}|{{shopitem|X Speed|350}}}}<br />
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|X Attack|500}}|{{shopitem|X Defend|550}}}}<br />
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Guard Spec.|700}}|{{shopitem|Dire Hit|650}}}}<br />
{{shoprow|{{shopitem|Escape Rope|550}}|{{shopitem|Super Repel|500}}}}<br />
{{shopfooter}}<br />
<br />
==Items==<br />
{{itlisth}}<br />
{{Itemlist|TM Normal|Reward from Professor Cosmo for retrieving the Meteorite.|Ru=yes|Sa=yes|E=yes|display={{TM|27|Return}}}}<br />
{{Itemlist|Nugget|In the center of the crater next to Professor Cosmo's house. ''(hidden)''|Ru=yes|Sa=yes|E=yes|display={{DL|Valuable item|Nugget}}}}<br />
{{Itemlist|Hyper Potion|Reward for clearing the Battle Tent.|E=yes|display={{DL|Potion|Hyper Potion}}}}<br />
{{itlistfoot}}<br />
<br />
==In the anime==<br />
[[File:Fallarbor Town anime.png|thumb|200px|right|Fallarbor Town in the anime]]<br />
[[File:Fallarbor Contest Hall.png|thumb|200px|left|Fallarbor Contest Hall]]<br />
The Fallarbor Town Pokémon Contest was the second in which {{an|May}} competed. She arrived in Fallarbor in ''[[AG050|Pros and Con Artists]]'', where she met {{an|Grace}}, another Pokémon Coordinator and her {{p|Medicham}}. After seeing how powerful it was—and witnessing [[Drew]] defeat {{Ash}} in battle—May feared she would not win the Contest.<br />
<br />
In ''[[AG051|Come What May!]]'', May competed in the Contest. She eventually made it to the finals and had to battle Grace. May subsequently defeated her and won her very first Contest Ribbon.<br />
{{-}}<br />
<br />
==Name origin==<br />
{| class="roundy" style="float:left; background: #839B47; border: 3px solid #708030"<br />
|- style="text-align:center"<br />
! style="{{roundytl|5px}}" | Language<br />
! Name<br />
! style="{{roundytr|5px}}" | Origin<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Japanese<br />
| ハジツゲタウン ''Hajitsuge Town''<br />
| May be 端 (''haji''), edge and 柘植 (''tsuge''), {{wp|Buxus microphylla|Japanese boxwood}}. May also refer to 葉 ''ha'' (leaf) or 灰 ''hai'' (ash). <br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| English<br />
| Fallarbor Town<br />
| From ''fall'', one of the four seasons, and ''arbor'', another word for tree.<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| French<br />
| Autequia<br />
| From ''automne'', autumn.<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| German<br />
| Laubwechselfeld<br />
| From ''Laubwechsel'', change of leaves, and the suffix ''-feld'', field.<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Italian<br />
| Brunifoglia<br />
| From ''bruno'', dark brown, and ''foglia'', leaf.<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Spanish<br />
| Pueblo Pardal<br />
| ''Pardal'' means "dark brown."<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Korean<br />
| 단풍마을 ''Danpung Maeul''<br />
| 단풍 (丹楓) ''danpung'' refers to the {{wp|Autumn leaf color|color of autumn leaves}}.<br />
|- style="background:#FFF;"<br />
| Chinese ({{tt|Mandarin|Taiwan and mainland China}})<br />
| 秋葉鎮／秋叶镇 ''Qiūyè Zhèn''<br />
| 秋葉 (''qiūyè'') means "autumn leaves". <br />
|}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Hoenn|708030}}<br />
{{-}}<br />
{{Project Cities and Towns notice}}<br />
[[Category:Ruby and Sapphire locations]]<br />
[[Category:Emerald locations]]<br />
[[Category:Towns]]<br />
<br />
[[it:Brunifoglia]]<br />
[[pt:Fallarbor Town]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Laubwechselfeld]]<br />
[[fr:Autequia]]<br />
[[ja:ハジツゲタウン]]<br />
[[zh:秋叶镇]]</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Effort_values&diff=1950163Talk:Effort values2013-08-09T19:21:12Z<p>Viskiv: </p>
<hr />
<div>Where "252" comes from isn't explained... it'd be better as Math.floor(255/4), but I'd prefer to see it written with the proper math symbols, which don't appear to be supported in Bulbapedia yet... - Hyperworm.<br />
:We'll try to get texvc installed, but that would mean getting an Ocaml compiler for whatever platform the server is running... not to mention checking that TeX is installed properly, etc. (mutter...) - [[User:Zhen Lin|刘 (劉) 振霖]] 12:23, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Feel free to make it floor(255/4) with a description of the floor command, but leave the "Math." out, Bulbapedia isn't a compiler. Don't expect most people viewing the page to know what "floor()" does.<br />
:--[[User:Jshadias|Jshadias]] 00:53, 22 Feb 2005 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is anyone thinking of compiling a chart of pokemon and what Effort Values they have? I see that each pokemon has theirs on their own pages but it doesn't list all of them at one spot, any ambitions or places online that it could be copied over from? [[User:Lucasthalefty|Lucasthalefty]] 02:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Bulbapedia already has one of those, actually. Now that you mention it, I hvae no idea why it's not linked to here. I'll add a hyperlink to the article. -- [[user:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">'''J'''ioruji '''D'''erako.'''>'''</font>]] 04:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Wow that makes it so much better thanks [[User:Lucasthalefty|Lucasthalefty]] 14:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just a point of clarification here - is it necessary to get a Pokemon to lv. 100 to get the full EV benefits? [[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 13:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Once they have the effort ribbon, you'll know they have full effort values. Otherwise, then, you can't really know. Heck, a Pokémon can hit 100 without full EVs. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[wp:Echidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">E</span><span style="color:#0000FF;">chidna</span>]]''' 19:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
::No, no. I mean, do the stat benefits show up only at lv. 100, or immediately after you've filled the 510 EVs? [[User:Fuzzy|Fuzzy]] 14:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, it's not like leveling from 99 to 100 will add some ridiculously high number to the stats. I don't keep track personally, but I think that they'll show up instantly once you've filled the EVs, and it won't matter if you enter them as some lower level into the autolevel-to-100 battle on WFC, or level them up naturally. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[wp:Echidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">E</span><span style="color:#0000FF;">chidna</span>]]''' 21:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, if you have enough evs, the stat gain comes after you level up. Say you get 16 evs before leveling up. If so, then when you do level up and you get 16 atk's, youll get 4 evs. So leveling to 100 isnt necesarry-- [[User:Mr T Tar]]<br />
:It is. You may have the EVs, but you don't have the stats. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">T</span>]][[wp:Echidna|<span style="color:#FF0000;">E</span><span style="color:#0000FF;">chidna</span>]]''' 04:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
And now i know thanks to you. I feel like a noob T_T {{unsigned|Mr T Tar}}<br />
<br />
== Some adjustments needed? ==<br />
<br />
First off, vitamins, The article's wording seems to imply that a vitamin can be used when the current points are any amount less than 100, and unless things have changed, or i know wrong, vitamins will only raise EV's TO 100 and never over 100, meaning vitamins can only be used when current EV's are 90 or less.<br />
<br />
Also, the basic info seems to ONLY address the final results at level 100, leading to earlier confusion about whether or not EV's apply anytime before. The EV portion of the stat calculations could be here, and/or a chart showing at what levels the EV's needed for an actual stat point are whole numbers, and how many it is, along the lines of:<br />
<br />
100 = 4<br />
80 = 5<br />
50 = 8<br />
40 = 10<br />
25 = 16<br />
20 = 20<br />
16 = 25<br />
10 = 40<br />
8 = 50<br />
5 = 80<br />
4 = 100<br />
-------<br />
2 = 200<br />
1 = 400<br />
<br />
Obviously we don't need a lot of the lower levels, since it'd be difficult to finish EV training that low. at eight, you'd need to use all the vitamins the game will let you to get just two stat points, and only one for the same at level 4, and gaining a single whole stat point is impossible at levels 1 and 2.<br />
:I'm thinking the chart should be cut off at 4, since then you could still use vitamins to gain 5 single stat points in different stats. {{u|Kendai}} 10:38 October 22, 2007.<br />
<br />
I get the numbers by dividing 400 by the level, or the needed number of EV's. You can see they start to mirror at 20. <br />
<br />
:Vitamins are only if the EV's less than 100 at the time of use. Even if it's 99, you can still use one vitamin. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">TTE</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#0000FF">chidna</span>]]''' 09:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
::I'm confused as to what happens in that situation. If the Pokemon has 99 EVs and you give it a vitamin, will it only gain 1 EV so that it hits 100, or will it raise the EVs to 109? --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 07:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Double on the route where caught? ==<br />
<br />
I read somewhere (a long time ago, I forget now) that when training a Pokémon on the same route or other map area where you caught it, it will receive double the normal amount of EVs. Does anyone know if this is true? {{unsigned|Dansiman}}<br />
:I know that in Crystal, it raised happiness by like, double or something. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span>{{ani|155|Fire echy}}<span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 02:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
::I don't think that thing you read was true. After all, many Pokémon are recieved in places where there are no wild Pokémon, such as starter pokémon, and you can't battle in the Safari Zone, and if a Pokémon is traded, say, from Diamond to Soul Silver, then you couldn't do train on the route either.<br />
Is it possible to check how many EVs are there for a apecific stat? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 19:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible to check how many EVs are there for a a specific stat? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 19:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
* If you know the IVs, you can come pretty damn close. But otherwise, no. [[User:System Error|System Error]] 21:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is there any way you can max out a specific stat without the use of vitamins? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 13:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Yes. Extra EV training can make up for no vitamin usage. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 18:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
::How do you do that? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 19:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::All 252 (255) EVs would have to come from battling. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 02:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Does that mean you have to battle continuously? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 18:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::Yep. So if you wanted to raise Sp Attack EVs, you'd battle something like Budew 252 times (Budew gives out one Sp Attack EV, I think) [[User:Tina|Tina]]<sup> [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]</sup> 18:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Unless you have the 'rus and a Macho Brace. <span style="background:#FF9030">'''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#000000">chidna</span>]]</span>{{ani|155|Fire echy}}<span style="background:#664444">[[User:TTEchidna/GSDS|<sup><span style="color:#FFD700">G</span></sup><sub><span style="color:#E0E0E0">S</span></sub><span style="color:#000000">DS!</span>]]'''</span> 00:48, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
What about Emerald? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 06:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I think (THINK!) it is more or less the same. <span style=" background:#000000">'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|<font color=blue>Ph34r4ever]]<sup>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|<font color=navy>Talk page]][[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|<span class="buttonlink" title="GeminiSpark!">♊</span></font clear="all">]]</sc>'''</span> 07:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
::But how do you know battling which Pokémon raises which EV? [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 07:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Ask TTE. He knows (almost) everything! <span style=" background:#000000">'''<sc>[[User:Optimus35|<font color=blue>Ph34r4ever]]<sup>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|<font color=navy>Talk page]][[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|<span class="buttonlink" title="GeminiSpark!">♊</span></font clear="all">]]</sc>'''</span> 07:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::(edit conflict) Or ask me!<br />
:::There's a list linked on the article here, and other lists across the 'web as well. Generally, Pokémon will give EVs to stats they're strong in themselves (Zubat's Speed stat is it's strongest, so it gives out 1 EV to Speed when you defeat it). There are some exceptions, but that's generally how it works out.<br />
:::For training in a specific stat, generally you just look at a list of Pokémon by EV reward, find ones that are fairly common, and track down a spot where you can find them easily. For example, Fearow and Raticate both give 2 EVs to Attack, and the area just North of the Fight Area in D/P is full of Fearow and Raticate; if you were planning to train for Attack, that would be the easiest place to train (fighting Fearow and Raticate, and running from anything else). Is that what you meant to ask? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 07:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Could you give me a link to any of those websites? And could you also tell me how to raise Special Attack in Emerald (that's what I'm playing now)? {{unsigned|J-J-M}}<br />
:::::For one, [[List of Pokémon by effort value yield]] is right here, simply sort by the Sp. Atk. column, which will put anything with more then a zero at the top (keep an eye out for some Pokémon that raise multiple stats at once, they can mess up your math).<br />
:::::In Emerald, let's see... Sp. Atk. is something I've trained before, let me check my notes. *runs off*<br />
:::::...I trained on [[Route 113]], [[Spinda]]s and [[Slugma]]s each give out 1 point towards Sp. Atk. stat. Flee from [[Skarmory]], they give out 2 points towards Def. stat (Skarmory are pretty rare anyways). MAKE SURE you mark down each Spinda/Slugma you defeat, there's nothing more annoying then losing count after number 134! And don't forget to save every so often too.<br />
:::::One more note, if you didn't already know, Exp. Share shares EVs too, so if you need to train two Pokémon for Sp. Atk., give one of them an Exp. Share and it'll gain the EVs from battling too. It won't get the benefit of a Macho Brace or anything if your first Pokémon has one, though.<br />
:::::...last note, training there is a great way to collect Soot on the route while you're at it. ;D --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 00:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
One more thing....is there any other way to get Attack EVs without having to battle Carvanha? (I can't find that thing anywhere!!!) [[User:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Jmath'''</span>]][[User talk:Jmath|<span style="color: #336699">'''Talk'''</span>]] 14:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I was wondering if somebody could please explain something for me... sorry if I'm slow to pick it up, I only found out about EVs a little while ago (so yeah, I played my way through the games ignorant of them), but I'm having trouble understanding how EVs actually become stat points. I understand how you accumulate EVs, but at what point, and how, do these become stat points? I originally assumed that it was instant (i.e., you get four EVs in a particular stat, that becomes a stat point for that stat) but from reading the rest of the discussion on this page, that doesn't seem to be the case. Someone also mentioned resetting EV values... that confused me too :S <br />
If there's a clearer explanation of how this works somewhere else, I'd really appreciate it if someone could direct me to it.<br />
Thanks- Timothy.<br />
:Every four EV points you gain, that's +1 in that stat at level 100. You can get up to 255 EVs in one stat, 510 total. 252 is where most people stop for a specific stat, since you don't get stat points for 3 EVs. EV points are gained from specific Pokémon, and there's a list of them somewhere around here. They get doubled by Pokérus and the Macho Brace. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 14:07, 2 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lv 100 Pokemon==<br />
Sigh.. my brother wanted to make a Latias he got stronger. The Latias was Lv100, so he gave the berries that lower EVs in ATTACK, so he could give extra Sp.Atk to his Latias, but when he went to train, the Latias did NOT receive any EV after battling (he tried doing the box trick so the game would recalculate the EVs, but the Sp.Atk didn't rise). So here is the question: Can a Lv 100 Pokemon receive EVs? '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 18:21, 18 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:No, you can't EV train at 100. [[User:Tina|<span style="color:#E75480;">Tina</span>]]<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Tina|<span style="color:#E75480;">☆</span>]][[User talk:Tina|<span style="color:#E75480;">♫</span>]]</sup> 18:29, 18 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::What about in Generation III? I've heard many conflicting stories about Level 100 Pokémon in Generation III receiving/not receiving experience and EVs. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 02:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm positive that without actually leveling up, the Pokémon won't gain any EVs. I believe the previous versions allowed players to deposit a Pokémon into a storage box, then withdraw, which would re-count the EVs... but this isn't in Gen.III, I'm 99% sure. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 03:52, 19 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::And what about pokémon that I already use vitamins? I mean because if you use medicine on them until it gets to "It won't have any effect", can you still train them? '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 19:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Vitamins cap out at 100 EVs (10 EVs per item), so when the Vitamins stop working, there's still 155 EVs left that you can do in that stat.<br />
:::In Gen.IV at least, I know Vitamins won't actually help you out training a level 100 Pokémon, if that's your question, since Vitamins grant EVs, and you'll need to level up to gain the effects. Just an FYI. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 09:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Eheh, he tried the box trick? That's only in the original Game Boys, not the Advance. So the trick won't work: 0.00000000000001% chance of it working. Good luck. Posted by the '''[[User:Optimus35|<span class="explain" title="Optimus35"><sc>Θρtιmαtum♏</sc></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ph34r4ever|Talk]]|[[User:Optimus35/sig/Pikachu|Links]]</sup>''09:45 21 May 2008'''''<br />
::If this is any evidence for or against the idea, I once made a mistake in EV training my Donphan--It was Level 50 with 196/140 HP/Attack instead of the 197/141 I wanted. I deleted its EVs, re-trained it WITHOUT LEVELLING IT UP, and deposited it into the PC. Donphan is still Level 50 and now has 197/141 HP/Attack. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Which game were you playing exactly? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 05:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Sorry. It was Diamond. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 22:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::The box trick works in Gen III too. I've done it many times, but just for fun because I know it's the same as leveling up. But I was wondering if you could do it with lv 100 pokemon too, because it's still possible with other pokemon. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 00:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Maxing Stats?==<br />
I've noticed that a lot of people manually count the number of battles they do while maxing a stat to 252...but wouldn't it be more convenient to just get it to 255 without counting and using a EV-reducing berry? Thanks. [[User:Drbazzi|Drbazzi]] 18:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Well, a berry would reduce it to 245, as they make EVs decrease by 10. And... why 252? it is just the same as 255. if you get 252 in two stats, you'll be able to get other 6 EVs for a thid stat, but it will only increase it 1 point at level 100... and 1 at level 100 is the same as nothing. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 20:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::In Emerald, that method would be more convenient. For Diamond/Pearl (and later, I would assume), if the Pokémon has more than 100 EVs in a stat, one EV-reducing berry would take it back to 100. For example, using an EV-reducing berry on a Pokémon with 255 EVs would take it down to 100 EVs, and using a berry on one with 101 EVs would also take it down to 100. For Hfc2x's question, let me turn that around: "Why 255? It is just the same as 252." The 1 extra point is for "all the advantage you can get", because you never know when one extra point may save you. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:15, 26 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Nopes, you're wrong. EV-reducing berries lower the EVs by 10 ALWAYS, even when it is over 100. and the 1 point in one stat is nothing, 'cause you can only make the difference every 18 points at level 100. For example... if I have a Pokémon with 300 of speed and my oponent has 305, ANY of the Pokémon may attack first because the difference is so minimal. And for offensive stats there is something called "{{wp|Random number generation|RNG}}" which is the reason of why sometimes your attacks are more powerful than usual, and not just for your high stats. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 02:21, 27 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::Okay, try maxing out a stat in Diamond/Pearl, and use one berry. I have tried it myself--there is a MASSIVE loss with the first berry and a much smaller loss with the second, third, and so on. Your speed example is ridiculous, because a 305-Speed Pokémon will ALWAYS move before a 300-Speed, provided the moves have the same priority. Remember what I said: "Why 255? It is just the same as 252.", and "all the advantage you can get". [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 21:50, 27 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::::No offense, but Playing Diamond and Pearl doesn't mean that you are the complete master of the games... I know why I say it. A Pokémon with 305 speed MAY attack before another with 300, and I tell you not because I'm sure, but that's the way the game works. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 00:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::::I still challenge you to try it in Diamond/Pearl. I say again: "Your speed example is ridiculous, because a 305-Speed Pokémon will ALWAYS move before a 300-Speed, provided the moves have the same priority." [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 00:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
You think I've never played Pokémon? xD quoting your own phrases is not the great thing... please read the whole talk page and see that I've already done that. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 04:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
If you are EV training a Pokémon with both a Macho Brace(Power Anklet, et al.) and the Pokérus, does the doubling take place before or after the plus four? For example, if I defeat a Jumpluff with a Pokémon that is holding a Power Anklet and currently has or has previously had the Pokérus, will it be getting 10 EVs(3*2+4) or 14 EVs((3+4)*2)? --[[User:Podunk|<span style="color:green">Po</span><span style="color:black">dunk</span>]] 10:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:It works like this:<br />
:I defeated a {{p|Gastly}} and my {{p|Alakazam}} had [[Pokérus]] and was holding [[EV-enhancing item#Power Lens|Power Lens]]. Gastly gives 1 {{Stat|Special Attack|Sp.Atk}} EV and the Power lens gives 4 extra EVs also, giving a total of 5. THEN the Pokérus duplicates the EVs for the Pokémon, (in this case Alakazam) giving a total of 10 Sp.Atk EVs. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 19:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Oh really? ==<br />
<br />
The last sentence states that it adds 4 EVs to the respective stat even if EVs in a different stat are gained. Is this tested to be true?<br />
<br />
To clarify, +4 first, THEN x2 for Pokerus <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Mr. Black|Mr. Black]] ([[User talk:Mr. Black|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Black|contribs]]){{ #if: | &#32;{{{2}}} |}}''</small><br />
<br />
Also, I believe the EV system for Generations I and II is wrong here. I'm fairly sure Pokemon weren't given specific EV values like they are now, I think EVs were actually calculated based on a Pokemon's stats. Please check it anyway to make sure.<br />
<br />
Since you added 252 is the highest multiple of 4 in 255, you might want to add 508 is the highest multiple of 4 in 510, making 2 available EVs useless. <small>- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Mr. Black|Mr. Black]] ([[User talk:Mr. Black|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Black|contribs]]){{ #if: | &#32;{{{2}}} |}}''</small><br />
:Well, Mr. Black isn't responding you questions... The first one is YES, if you use Power Wheight you'll always gain +4 HP EVs, even if you fight a Graveler. And the second one is NO, Pokémon always have given away the same EVs they give now, but the difference is that there is no limit in Gens I and II, instead of the limit of 510 in Gens III and IV. {{unsigned|hfc2x}}<br />
<br />
Well, I'll explain it better:<br />
*Power Wheight helps you get +4 EVs in HP ''EVERY TIME YOU FIGHT AND FAINT AND OPPONENT''. This is added to the total if you haven't got the Pokerus. If you have Pokérus, then the total (after adding the bonus for the held item) is multiplied by 2.<br />
*In Generations I and II, ALL Pokémon give ''THE SAME'' EVs they give now. The only difference among generations is the total of EVs you can add to a Pokémon if you want to train. In Gens III and IV the maximum training in EVs is 510, with a maximum of 255 in every stat, but the total cannot exceed 510. In Gens I and II, there is no maximum amount of EVs in any stat nor a maximum of total EVs. Meaning that you can get infinite training.<br />
<br />
I hope it is clear now... '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 18:31, 5 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
* I think your second statement about Generations I and II is incorrect. According to [http://www.geocities.com/thelegendarydogs/faqs/all/genes/genesfaq.htm this GenI&II Pokémon DVs guide], defeating a Pokémon added its base stats to your EV scores (called Stat XP in the old terminology), and your EV scores were limited to 65535. This corroborates with the [[Pokémon data structure in the GB|data structure]], which has ten bytes for Effort data or two bytes per stat, and two bytes can store a maximum value of 65535. --[[User:JDigital|JDigital]] 05:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Probability ==<br />
<br />
How many different combinations of EVs are possible without going over the limit for EVs, 510, and the limit in each individual stat, 255? {{unsigned|Superbreeder}}<br />
<br />
:I think 255! * 6...but that doesn't discount duplicates, so I'm not quite sure. It probably involves factorials, and it's certainly exceptionally large. [[User:Evkl|evkl]] 21:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::Ask {{u|Beligaronia|this guy}} nicely. If you explain exactly what you're looking for, I'm sure he can figure it out. He has told me, though, that he plans to be less active than an inactive user, so try [[Special:EmailUser/Beligaronia|email]] or his Wikipedia talk page for the fastest results. &mdash; <small>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<font color="#0000C8">THE TROM</font></small>]] &mdash; 21:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== I Still Don't Understand ==<br />
<br />
EV Training still confuses me. . If I fought a Charizard, who gives 3SpAtk EVs, then what would happen? My Pokemon gets 3 extra points to their SpAtk? Does it have to level up? {{unsigned|ShinjiLover}}<br />
:No, it doesn't help. Try beating other 83 Charizards to fill up your Sp.Atk EV max and then level up and see what happens. 252 EVs mean +63 of the stat ''AT LEVEL 100'', not at other levels. Ah, and try signing your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 21:37, 24 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effort Values and Stat Experience ==<br />
<br />
I saw that on the article it says that Effort Values were created in Gen. I, but weren't they created in Gen. III during the Data Structure Overhaul. The extra 63 points in the first 2 generations were determined by a hidden experience value for each stat value (max - 63,105 exp. points i think), and the amount of hidden exp. you get for a stat is equal to the opponent's base stat for that specific stat.<br />
<br />
There is more evidence to support this then the EV theory. Like if you just caught a Lapras in, say, Pokémon Crystal,and you fight 4 Grimers. If the EV theory were correct, you would get 1 point in your HP stat after using the Box Trick, but instead multiple stats rise. Isn't that because each stat rises according to every 1000 points(or something)?<br />
<br />
So I was just thinking to suggest that the EV info on Gen. I and II be moved to III, and create a link to a new page, Stat Experience? The SE theory sounds more correct then the EV one for Gens. I and II. What do you guys think? {{unsigned|Dark Boye}}<br />
<br />
* In Generations I and II we called it Stat Experience. Nowadays they're called EVs. It's calculated differently now, but it's essentially the same thing - you get faster by fighting Jolteons, and more hit points by fighting Chanseys. I think it makes sense to say they're just different versions of the same thing - after all, as far as I know, both "stat XP" and "Effort Values" are just fan-created names. --[[User:JDigital|JDigital]] 05:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
***Hi everyone! I have some questions.<br />
<br />
1. Say you have a level 90 Charmeleon and you EV Train it with Spinda (1 EV SP ATK). I have to fight it 252 times (without any pokerus or macho brace) to gain 252 SP ATK EV's (=63 SP ATK STAT PTS), right? Now, if you have a level 90 pokemon fighting against level 14-17Spinda, you can have 252 battles without leveling up, right? My question is, if I have defeated 252 Spindas and not level up and use 10 rare candies to reach level 100 after that, will all those accumulated EV's count?<br />
<br />
2. If you have maxed out your pokemon's 510 EV's, what happens to the EV's you gain by fighting other pokemon? Is there some kind of prioritizing EV's for a certain stat?<br />
<br />
[[User:Iamcharmeleon|Iamcharmeleon]] ([[User talk:Iamcharmeleon|talk]]) 09:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)IAMCHARMELEON<br />
<br />
==Stat-reducing Berries==<br />
I'd like to note some things about the Stat Reducing Berries. The fact that they reduce EV's by 10 is correct, but I wanna note that when used on a stat above 100, the stat is reduced down to 100, then each subsequent use is 10 each. Once the berry starts failing, it's either due to the stat having no EV's, or an EV amount below 10. These berries are also very useful in changing a Pokemon's EV spread, a very good thing for an In-game team to make them more competitive. <br />
Also, when used on a Level 100 Pokemon, they WILL reduce the stats, but because they can no longer level up, they cannot raise the stats back up via EV training.[[User:JoeTE|Joe T.E.]] 14:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Although you may be able to raise your stats back using stat-enhancing drinks, which are the opposite of stat reducing berries.[[User:Valorum27|Valorum27]] 00:46, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Your questions are probably answered here...==<br />
After reading this page, I found that there were a lot of complicated topics that weren't quite answered. Here're the most frequently asked questions answered:<br />
<br />
What is EV training, and how is it good?<br />
EV training is a method in which you train one Pokémon against a against a specific group of Pokémon in order to raise the Pokémon's stats. This would be like training a future sweeper against Jolteon so that the sweeper gets faster.<br />
<br />
How do I EV train?<br />
Personally, I EV train by finding trainers that have only one species of Pokémon, but others may prefer to train against wild Pokémon. Both methods are equally effective. A common one is PI Carlos just below Veilstone City. Because he has 3 Goldeen (which evolve into Seaking), he gives 3 (or 6) EV's throughout the course of one battle. Although you can have a maximum of 255 EV's in each stat, many trainers opt to put a maximum of 252 EV's in a stat. You can have a maximum of 510 EV's total (shared between stats), and every 4 EV's in a stat boost the stat at level 100 by 1 point.<br />
<br />
What about Berries?<br />
If you use a stat-reducing berry on a pokemon that has more than 100 EV's in a stat, it reduces that stat's EV's to 100. From 100 down, however, it reduces the EV's by 10. Kudos to Joe T. E.!<br />
<br />
How do I squeeze the most out of EV training?<br />
Ok, so this isn't really an FAQ, but I found some nice ideas to maximize your EV's. First off, putting EV's in a stat increased by nature can make its effect go up from +63 to +69, putting you "one point ahead" in the end!<br />
<br />
Try my EV Optimizer here: http://masd.21classes.com/pub/MASD/DavidKo/Stat_Calculator.htm<br />
<br />
[[User:PhoenixGraphix|&lt;i&gt;Phoenix&lt;/i&gt;]] 22:30, 24 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm still a little puzzeled, butI think I'm getting to understand EVs. Basically by the time I get to level 100 I'll HAVE to have my max EV numbers somewhere right? The only "EV training" is in aiming for those two max stats? Maybe use EV reducer berries to tweak. But after I get those EVs full and in a way I like them, that's all I can do, right? Timing of getting the EVs early/ect don't matter, right? The end result doesn't need babysitting from the very start it looks like/I hope?--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 05:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::A Pokémon's stats are pre-calculated, but think of it like this: the difference between the Pokémon's stat now and their stat at level <i>X</i> divided by the number of levels between them equals the stat change. As an example, if a Pokémon's stat at level 100 would be 300, and it's level 99 with 290 as its stat, its next stat gain will be 10. As long as you get all of your EV's in before level 100, all of the EV's will be factored in. <strong>[[User:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Phoenix</span>]][[User_Talk:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #AAAAAA;">Graphix</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #B0E0E6">&trade;</span>]]</strong> 02:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I have a question that isn't answered here: Is it possible to check to see how many EVs your Pokemon has in specific stat? I know that there's a guy in the Platinum Battle Tower that will let you know their IVs, but is there something like that for EVs to? --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 12:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Well, if you know your exact IVs, it's possible to calculate your EVs, but otherwise, no. Generally, if you're training for a particular number of EVs, you keep track of it in a notepad or something. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 15:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I never bothered with EVs or IVs till now, so I didn't keep track. So what's the formula to calculate the EVs then? Also, does the formula calculate the EVs exactly, or is it just an approximate amount? --[[User:Dual|Dual]] 15:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I don't know the formula, so I wouldn't know how exact it would be. You can probably get an aproximate however by going into a Wi-Fi battle and setting levels to 100 (if you don't already have your Pokémon at level 100), than compare the stats to the stats listed on that Pokémon's species page.<br />
::::For example, if I checked my Weavile at level 100 and its Attack stat was at 350, I could compare that to the [[Weavile (Pokémon)#Base stats|base stats]] at level 100 and figure that my Attack EV was somewhere close to maxed-out (since the highest you can get with EVs and IVs combined would be 372 on a Weavile).<br />
::::It's a rough aproxximation, but it'll give you a good idea where you're at.<br />
::::Generally, if you really want to get serious with EV training, you'll want to start fresh with a newly-caught/newly-hatched Pokémon. I've not tried it, but I believe you could also use berries that reduce EVs to "reset" your Pokémon back to 0, as well (not sure on the details of that, however). --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 21:31, 17 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV Training for Lv 50 battles ==<br />
<br />
<p>Since there is currently a world tourney going on with a Lv 50 limit and there also is (and has been for along while) the in-game option of battling with Lv 50 pokémon, I'm surprised that I don't see more information or discussion on the topic. If you are EV training for a Lv 50 battle, then wouldn't you not particularly want 252 EV in a stat? Unless I'm mistaken, you would want floor(252/8) because you are at half the level of Lv 100 battles, where it is four EV per stat point. This would mean that raising a stat to 252 would in fact be a waste of four perfectly usable effort points! Am I mistaken here, or is this assumption correct?</p><br>[[User:TheCakeIsALie|NonaSuomi]] 02:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:That's actually wrong. You can have max EVs at like level 10 and it wouldn't hurt. <span style="font-family:Cracked; font-size:125%"><sup>[[User:Tc26/Anime Predictions|<span style="color:#303030;">tc</span>]]</sup>[[User:Tc26|<span style="color:#e03828;">²₆</span>]][[User talk:Tc26|<span style="color:#303030;">tc</span>]]<sub>[[User:Tc26/Sandbox|<span style="color:#e03828;">26</span>]]</sub></span> 02:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Maxing at any level doesn't matter. It's just at level 100 where full bonus is calculated. At level 100 your Pokémon's stats will range by exactly 31 points for their IVs and exactly 63 points for their EVs. Under 100's are just fractionalized by their level: a level 50 Pokémon would thus have a 15-point or 16-point range in stats due to IVs, while the range due to EVs would be 31 or 32 points. As the Pokémon's level gets higher the discrepancy is greater between untrained and crap-IVs and trained with excellent IVs. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#DAA520">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#C0C0C0">chidna</span>]]''' 03:03, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Sorry TTE, but IV points can vary a stat as much as 34 points and as little as 28 points, and EV's can vary as much as 69 points and as little as 57 points depending on the nature. Training a Pokémon earlier rather than later or vice versa has no effect on its stats at level 10, 25, 50 or 100. What appears to happen is that a Pokémon trained later will have a more extreme stat gain in the next level (<s>about 63/(100 - level)</s> (future stat (with EV's) - current stat) points more than usual if fully trained in one level). <strong>[[User:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Phoenix</span>]][[User_Talk:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #AAAAAA;">Graphix</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #B0E0E6">&trade;</span>]]</strong> 03:28, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I think my question has been misunderstood here. What I want to ask is this: since at level 100 it takes four effort points to add a single point in any stat, wouldn't it make sense that it would take 8 points at exactly half that level? <i>That</i> is what I am asking. Can anyone answer this for me, as it can mean the difference between 252 being the max useful amount and 248 being that number, and with 2 stats at that level, you'd have eight effort points to spare, meaning one stat point anywhere you chose... Sorry if this seems obvious to anyone, but I'm not so sure from the sources I've looked at.<br>[[User:TheCakeIsALie|NonaSuomi]] 06:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::In an attempt to answer your multi-faceted question, yes, it would be more thrifty to put only 248 EV's in a stat if you intend to keep that Pokémon at level 50. The extra point in the stat with 252 would be rounded down anyway, so putting in 248 is a much better choice. If you intend, however, to train the Pokémon to level 100, it would max out the stat with <b>only</b> 252. <strong>[[User:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #FFD700;">Phoenix</span>]][[User_Talk:PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #AAAAAA;">Graphix</span>]][[Special:Contributions/PhoenixGraphix|<span style="color: #B0E0E6">&trade;</span>]]</strong> 18:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Understood. And yes, I was asking about pokémon you intend to keep for battling at level 50, which I suppose I should have specified. I just figured since I mentioned the VGC tourneys it would be assumed, what with a lv 50 cap and all... Thanks!<br>[[User:TheCakeIsALie|NonaSuomi]] 01:03, 14 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It depends on whether the IV is even or odd, if it's odd you need 252 to max the stat, if even only 248. Any other level and you would have to consider the whole IV and the Base stat too, but the EV needed for max stat will always be a multiple of 4. I know that this conversation is almost a year old, but having an accurate answer is important. --[[User:Sp unit 262|sp unit 262]] 04:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV distribution if multiple pokemon are used ==<br />
<br />
So only the pokemon that lands the finishing blow gets the EVs? Or do all the pokemon that were exposed in the battle get EVs? --[[User talk:Qwertyasdf|<font color="#0000C8">(QQ)<sup>∞</sup>wertyasdf</font>]] 11:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Every Pokémon that gained EXP, as a result of the defending Pokémon being defeated, gets EVs. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 17:12, 14 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::So if i knock out a Paras by sending out Heracross, switching to Scyther and knocking it out with wing attack, they both get 1 attack EV? So both get the full effect? What if the opponent gives two or there EVs?[[User:Emperor Fox|Emperor Fox]] 01:45, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::All Pokémon who received experience recieve the full amount of EVs. Evs are not divided, unlike experience. --[[User:Valorum27|Valorum27]] 16:29, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Is this the same in Generation I/II, i.e. for stat exp? Also can we add this to the article somewhere? [[User:Smithers888|Smithers888]] 14:08, 11 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Confused about Effort Values and Effort Points ==<br />
<br />
In the first paragraph under Generation III, it begins by describing the new effort points, but the example uses effort values:<br />
<br />
:Generation III completely overhauls the effort value structure. Defeated Pokémon give out 1, 2 or 3 ''effort points'' to a particular stat, depending on species (see list of Pokémon by effort value yield). However, in battles that do not give any experience (such as in the Battle Tower or if the Pokémon is level 100), Pokémon will not gain any ''EVs.'' At level 100, a Pokémon's stats will be one point higher in a specific stat for every four effort points gained in that stat.<br />
<br />
The way that I read the second sentence, no pokémon at any level from Generation 3 on would earn effort values since they were replaced by effort points. If effort points and effort values are the same thing, using both terms is confusing. If effort points are converted into effort values, that should be stated with the conversion rate.<br />
<br />
If a level 100 pokémon cannot gain any experience from battle, how would it be getting effort points or a stat increase at all?<br />
<br />
One more thing: Does the mew in the Generation 1 example grant 100 (points) to each effort value or 100 effort values to each stat? [[User:White Phoenix|White Phoenix]] 21:56, 20 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
:From how I see it, defeating one Mew in Generation I grants 100 points to each effort value. My interpretation of the article is that an "effort point" or "effort value point" refers to stat exp. that has been gained, and "effort value" is the total amount of effort points that has been "collected" in a particular stat. For example, a Pokémon that defeats a Mew will gain 100 effort points in each stat, and its effort values for each stat will therefore increase by 100. However, it looks like many people often say "effort values" when they really mean "effort points", which is extremely confusing. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 02:47, 21 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::So you would wind up with effort points ''and'' effort values? Oh, the effort value is in increments of effort points. It’s like having a hundred dollars in one-dollar bills. You have 100 dollar bills which is 100 dollars. But who ever says they have a hundred dollar bills in their account? [[User:White Phoenix|White Phoenix]] 02:29, 27 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Also, whoever says they received 100 dollar bills? By the way, nowhere on Bulbapedia is the relationship of effort points to effort values given, or even a definition. [[User:White Phoenix|White Phoenix]] 10:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::One Effort Value = One Effort Point. The names were changed starting with Generation III it appears (from Value to Point), but the EV term is still the most commonly used.<br />
:::The article needs a bit of a re-write to clarify this; some editors have written it as Points, while others have written it as Values, which is why the current article is a little convoluted on that particular regard. I'll need to research a bit as to which name is the current "official" term. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 00:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't know about what these things were "officially" called in Generation III. However, in Diamond and Pearl:<br />
::::*The description for vitamins mention '''"base" stat'''. For example, the HP Up's description says, ''"... It raises the '''base HP''' of a single Pokémon."'' Using it on a Pokémon will say something like, ''"FEEBAS's '''base HP''' rose!"''<br />
::::*The description for EV-reducing berries also say '''"base" stat'''. For example, the Pomeg Berry's description says, ''"... Using it on a Pokémon makes it more friendly, but it also lowers its '''base HP'''."'' Using it on a Pokémon will say something like, ''"However, its '''base HP''' fell!"'', ''"Its '''base HP''' fell!"'', or ''"Its '''base HP''' can't go lower."''<br />
::::Similar wording occurs with the other vitamins and EV-reducing berries as well. Of course, the items I mentioned actually modify the EVs, and not what we (on Pokémon fan sites) would call "base stats". [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 00:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::*Does the 100 effort values to all stats when defeating a mew apply only to generation 1, or does it apply to generation II as well?(Forger03 at 10:33pm on February 03, 2010)<br />
:::::That should be valid for both Generation I and Generation II. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 17:37, 4 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV Gain at Level 100 ==<br />
<br />
It might be worth mentioning that while you can't EV train at level 100, you can use vitamins. [[User:Smythe|Smythe]] 10:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== A Few Questions... ==<br />
<br />
Having read through the whole talk page, there are a few things I'm still not entirely clear on.<br />
<br />
Firstly, does the level at which a Pokémon gains it's EVs matter? For instance, if I were to train a certain Pokémon to have 252 HP EVs at level 40, and then do the same with an identical Pokémon at level 70 and then raise both up to level 100 will the ultimate result be that both Pokémon have the same maxed HP stat?<br />
<br />
Secondly, Is it smarter to maximize two selected stats of a Pokémon, or to spread the EVs around evenly? Example: Gengar has naturally high Speed and Special Attack stats, so, would this Pokémon be most competitive if it had 252 EVs in each of these stats? or would that just make it less flexible in battle?<br />
<br />
Thirdly, I read somewhere on this page that "All Pokémon that gain EXP from defeating another Pokémon will get EVs." Does this include EXP gained through the use of an EXP. Share? If so, do the EVs get divided among the Pokémon in the same manner as the EXP? Or does each Pokémon that gained EXP from a battle then gain the full EV yield?<br />
<br />
I apologise if any of these questions have already been answered and I simply missed them... ~ [[User:Ender Phoenix|Ender Phoenix]] 06:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
#Level won't matter, so long as it's not at level 100 when it gains the EVs (so it still has level-ups left to receive the bonuses). At level 100, both of your examples would have the same stats (not counting any differences in [[nature]] or [[IVs]]).<br />
#This depends, but generally speaking, you'll focus on two main stats. There are some instances where you'll want a bit of a spread, but normally you'll always max out HP on a defensive Pokémon and put the rest of the points into either one or both of the defense stats, or on an offensive Pokémon, perhaps allocate the majority of the points to Speed and the rest to one of the attack stats. Sites like Smogon.com list popular movesets and EV spreads for nearly every Pokémon used competitively, and can be a good way to get a feel for how a competitive set might look.<br />
#Exp. Share will split the EXP, but both Pokémon will get the full EVs. If you defeat a {{p|Pikachu}} while one of your other party members has an Exp. Share, both your active Pokémon and the one with the Exp. Share will get 2 Speed EVs. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 03:50, 6 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
::Thanks for your answers, thats exactly what I needed to know! ~ [[User:Ender Phoenix|Ender Phoenix]] 00:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Related question: If a Pokemon holding a Macho Brace or other EV-affecting item is switched into battle, and therefore two or more Pokemon earn experience from the battle WITHOUT the use of an Exp. Share, do the Pokemon without the EV-affecting item receive the normal number of EVs or the increased number? I know that Pokerus affects only the Pokemon experiencing it, but I can't find any description of the mechanics for a normal shared experience scenario as opposed to one involving an Exp. Share. [[User:Mousewings|Mousewings]] 08:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Box Trick ==<br />
<br />
The article never states if you can still use the box trick to raise stats when at level 100. I'm wondering if you can un-train then re-train the EVs of lv 100 Pokémon.[[User:Valorum27|Valorum27]] 00:51, 10 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
Never mind... I'm really stupid.<br />
<br />
== An Additional Question ==<br />
Sorry if this seems a bit picky, but I wanted a direct answer to this question rather than assume the answer. I know you have 510 EVs to distribute to a single Pokémon, and you can only use 255 EVs for one stat. Is it possible to max out a stat (spend 255 EVs on it), but still continue to waste your 510 EVs on that stat? Like, if you invested 255 EVs to speed (and thus only have 255 EVs total to work with) then battled a Zubat, would you now have only 254 EVs to work with or do you still have 255? [[User:Goddessofevil9|Goddessofevil9]] 01:46, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The 255 cap is just that, a cap. Once you get 255 in a stat, no other EVs in that stat will be counted, so you still have 255 EVs left to put into other stats. --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|<font color="#237d00"> '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''>'''</font>]]<small>[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|<font color="#237d00">''.cнаt'''''^'''</font>]]</small> 01:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Really? I thought once you reached 252 you were just throwing away EV points. Are you completely sure?[[User:Emperor Fox|Emperor Fox]] 01:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It is "throwing away EV points" because you need 4 EV points to get 1 stat point, but you put in 3 EV points to fill the max to 255, meaning you never get your 1 stat point out of it. But I wasn't sure if you were able to continue wasting. [[User:Goddessofevil9|Goddessofevil9]] 02:04, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Eh... i was unclear. Apart from the wasted 3, i thought you could continue gaining EVs until you'd wasted all of them on one stat. Though if it really does stop gaining EVs after 255, that would answer my question of "Why is it a cap if you can keep wasting them?" Frankly, it's fantastic news, since I'm EV training a zangoose the horribly lazy way. Pokérus, Power Bracer and beating a whole bunch of floatzel. (Which, if I'm not mistaken, nets me 4 speed EVs and 8 attack with each one defeated. Anyone care to correct me if I'm wrong?)[[User:Emperor Fox|Emperor Fox]] 02:13, 14 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::So it seems Jïörüjï Ðērākō is right in that it does cap. Just had someone test it out so let the lazy EV training begin! [[User:Goddessofevil9|Goddessofevil9]] 02:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::As for the why it caps, 1 byte is capable of storing 256 different values. One of those values is zero, leaving 255 others. <sc>[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#A1871F;">Werdnae</span>]]</sc> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 02:31, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Excuse me... ==<br />
<br />
HI, I'm new!... That aside, could someone please explain the following situation? I think it might be useful to people... Anyway, I came across EVs recently and decided to train my [[Kadabra (Pokémon)|Alakaz]] in Sp. Atk. and Speed. His EVs were already maxed, so I thought of using the EV-reducing berries. I also tried some on a {{p|Houndoom}}, for happiness. These are the messages I got:<br />
<br />
I used a lot of [[Grepa berry|Grepa berries]], and then some {{b|Kelpsy}} and {{b|Qualot}}. His happiness was always at max. At first I got the message "Alakaz adores you! Its base Sp. Def. fell." After some Grepas, I got the message "It won't have any effect." Then I fed him some Kelpsy, and I got the message "Alakaz adores you! Its base Attack fell"... Then I tried a few Pomeg berries on [[Houndoom (Pokémon)|Houndark]]. At first the normal message showed, but I didn't see the HP go down. Then, after the third one, I got "Houndark became more friendly. Its base HP won't go lower." <br />
<br />
Can someone please explain? I'm [[User:Togepikachu|TogePikachu]], thank you. 10:24, 24 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:*Your Alakaz must have had maximum happiness, as well as some Attack and Sp. Def. EPs. Using a reduction berry on a Pokémon with maximum happiness but nonzero EV will give you the "adores you" message. But once you erased all of Alakaz's Sp. Def. EPs, since Alakaz already had maximum happiness and 0 Sp. Def. EV, more Grepa berries would not have any effect (and the game told you). Alakaz still had some Attack EPs, so Kelpsy berries would still have an effect by reducing its Attack EV.<br />
:*Your Houndark had 11-20 HP EPs before you used the Pomeg berries (after the Pomeg berries, it had 0), but that was not enough to make a difference in its HP stat at that level. Your Houndark did not reach maximum happiness even after you gave it the Pomeg berries, so using further Pomeg berries would still have an effect by increasing its happiness.<br />
:[[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 20:08, 9 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== 1st and Second Gen ==<br />
<br />
Is it possible in the first and second generation to see when your stats have maxed BESIDES fighting the E4 then Box Tricking? I want to know when to stop training Mewtwo over there. Haha. [[User:PoketoaTheFirefox|PoketoaTheFirefox]] 20:00, 5 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's not possible to definitively determine if your Pokémon is maxed out (unless if one of its stats has IV 15 and that stat was maxed before - then you know it's absolutely maxed) without outside hardware, such as a cheating device. Couldn't reduce EVs until late Generation III, so it's really hard to determine a Generation I or II Pokémon's stat potential. If you don't see any stat improvement after a large number of battles, then of course that may suggest that maximum stats have been reached, but that's not a guarantee. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 07:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Is "Effort values" an official terminology? ==<br />
<br />
I see in the Pokémon Emerald Official Encyclopaedia (a Japanese official book), and in the Route 9 Department Store of Pokémon Black & White, effort value is called "基礎ポイント" (base point) in Japanese. I want to know, is the terminology "Effort values / 努力値" (as well as base stats, IV, others..) referred in any official media? Or it's actually a widely-used fanon terminology like "Masuda method" --[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 14:50, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I have never seen official Pokémon media use "effort value" or "effort point". In fact, in the English Generation IV games, the descriptions for the vitamins (HP Up, Protein, etc.) and the EV-reduction berries (Pomeg, Kelpsy, etc.) also mention "base" stat. For example, the in-game description of the HP Up item is, "''A nutritious drink for Pokémon. It raises the '''base HP''' of one Pokémon.''" I think that IV (individual value) is also an unofficial term, but I'm not sure about other terminology. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 15:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think the reason that they do this is because although IV's and EV's are separate data, when calculating stats they are pretty much just addons to the base stats. So, one EV point actually ''raises the base stat'' of a specific Pokémon by 1/8 of a point, and one IV point raises it by a half point. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 17:49, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Apparently there's an official name for them now - "Base Points". [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 21:55, 5 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::So perhaps the official (English) term for the ''combined effect of base stat, IV, and EV'', is "base stat", and not just EVs specifically? [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Actually, I think we might need some more clarification (maybe an exact quote) about what they really mean when they say "base point" or "base stat". Swampert (or anyone), could you provide a translation of the text that you mentioned? [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:24, 6 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::And apparently I didn't see it in the first post (the "base point" thingy). I'm dumb >_< [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 22:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::From my understanding, 基礎ポイント means and '''only''' means effort value, since the book says ''基礎ポイント(base points) can affect about 60 stat value when Lv.100''(translated), and a NPC in Route 9 Department Store says ''The items to rise 基礎ポイント are sold on Floor 3''. I haven't found an official English term, it should be ascertained in the English version of Black and White.--[[User:Swampert|Swampert]] 14:11, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Thank you Swampert. We'll have to see if Ztobor might be correct that the English games will translate "基礎ポイント" as "base point". [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 01:29, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effect on stat points ==<br />
<br />
The German Pokéwiki has this to say about effort values. Here is a rough translation:<br />
<br />
"At level 100, four EV's in a particular stat will result in an increase of one point for that stat. At other levels, the number of EV's needed to do so is as follows:<br />
<br />
*Level 0-19: 40<br />
*Level 20-29: 20<br />
*Level 30-39: 13.3<br />
*Level 40-49: 10<br />
*Level 50-59: 8<br />
*Level 60-69: 6.6<br />
*Level 70-79: 5.7<br />
*Level 80-89: 5<br />
*Level 90-99: 4.4<br />
*Level 100: 4"<br />
<br />
Should this be included here? --[[User:Locrian|Locrian]] 13:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I was under the understanding that it was 4 EVs = 1 point for all levels... &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="color:#000">darklord</span>[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 06:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::You can add it if you want. I don't see what the problem would be, since it would show people the "true" effect of EVs at certain levels. For example, you would expect a level 1 Chimchar, with 31 Attack IV and 252 Attack EV, to have 7 Attack (by the formula) instead of 69 Attack (6+252/4). [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 19:00, 16 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::i say add it because i was gonna ask why my pokes were getting 1 pt every 8 evs when its supposed to be 4 evs i thought. looking at that chart it makes sense because they were at 55-58 when i was training them. [[User:TerrorKingMugen|TerrorKingMugen]] 16:47, 12 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
::So what my question now is...when you level up, do these EVs "catch up" with their proper level? So if I EV trained a Bulbasaur at level 2 and he got +1 Sp ATK because he had 40 Sp ATK EVs, once he got to level 41, and theoretically gained no EVs, would that become +4 Sp Atk, or did I just screw Bulbasaur out of points? [[User:Poke poke poke|Poke poke poke]] 23:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
:::Technically, that chart is only an approximation. You didn't screw Bulbasaur out of any EV's, but it's not always obvious the work that the EV's are doing. To answer your question, yes, that +1 you got at Level 2 will... actually grow into +20 at Level 41. The figure of "40" only works for Level 10. At level 2, it actually takes 200 EV's to raise the Sp.Atk by 1 point. It's just that that +20 will be spread about through the other 38 levels, so you won't see it discretely. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 19:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== official name? ==<br />
<br />
Serebii are reporting that an NPC on Isshu Route 9 gives an official name to EVs as "base points". Can anyone confirm this? [[User:Kidburla|Kidburla]] 15:11, 30 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Please see the discussion above, "Is 'Effort values' an official terminology?". Since Black and White haven't been released in any language other than Japanese, we only know that the term used in Japanese is "基礎ポイント", which people have translated as "base point". We'll just have to wait for the English-language release to find out the official English name. [[User:Ultraflame|Ultraflame]] 03:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== That Gen V section ==<br />
<br />
Is it proven yet? --[[User:Turtwig Lover|Turtwig Lover]] 12:18, 12 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, here: [http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79340&page=62]. [[User:Pikiwyn|<font color="#d0000d" face="boopee">'''''Pikiwyn'''''</font>]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|<tt><sup>'''''<font color="black">talk</font>'''''</sup></tt>]] 12:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Still a bit confused... ==<br />
<br />
So are Rare Candies okay if you've already got all your desired 512 EVs? Or is it better to level it up through battling, manually, all the way to Level 100?<br />
<br />
And would the following method work to get the best possible stats for a Pokemon with the same IVs?<br />
Say: a Level 50 Gyarados with mixed random EVs via battling throughout the storyline, fed as many stat-reducing berries as possible, and then battled the correct number of the correct type of Pokemon to get 252/252/6 EVs, and then leveled up with a bunch of Rare Candies to Level 100?<br />
:If the Pokémon has 510 EVs total then it doesn't matter whether you use Rare Candies or Battle experience to further level it up. And yes, that method should work. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 01:45, 24 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gen III Deoxys ==<br />
<br />
It should be mentioned somewhere in the article, that the only Pokémon that gets stats recalculated at the end of every battle in Gen III is {{p|Deoxys}}, as opposed to the other Pokémon, which get their stats recalculated in the box or by leveling up. I recall, when I first got an event Deoxys in my FireRed game, I noticed that it wasn't getting normal stat recalculation upon leveling up when I was EV training it. Then I noticed that in FR/LG/E, the alternate formes of Deoxys have that behavior upon battling: their stats grow after every battle instead of the normal way of gaining a boost upon level-up. This doesn't happen with the normal Deoxys from R/S. Anyone feel free to add it to the article (and confirm it, if you have time and Deoxys, too). '''[[User:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#008800">h</span><span style="color:#000000">fc</span>]][[User talk:Hfc2x|<span style="color:#000000">2</span><span style="color:#008800">X</span>]]''' 21:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== As for the "recalculations" in Gen. V ==<br />
<br />
I'm rather confused as to what "stats being recalculated after every battle" entails. Does it mean that even if, say, your Emboar is fully EV trained, its EVs can still be changed just by its being in more battles? Sorry, I might just be missing some obvious wording, but it'd help if someone would clear this up.... [[User:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Purple">Puppy</font>]] of [[User talk:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Red">Doom</font>]] and [[Poochyena (Pokémon)|<font color="Blue">Destruction</font>]] 19:43, 27 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
:In Generations III and IV, if, say, you have a Pokémon (not Deoxys) with 100 Attack and zero Attack EVs, if it then gains 252 Attack EVs without leveling up, evolving, going in the PC box, or using any vitamins, its Attack will still be 100 until you do one of those things. In Generation V, this is changed so that increases in EVs will automatically increase stats as appropriate after every battle without the need of the [[box trick]] or similar. —[[User:Minimiscience|Minimiscience]] 19:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Ah, so basically the stats are fully realized ''when you finish EV Training'' versus when reaching Level 100? And level gain is no longer required to have EVs account ''at all''? Exciting. Thank you very much for the clarification. [[User:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Purple">Puppy</font>]] of [[User talk:Sadistic Blaziken|<font color="Red">Doom</font>]] and [[Poochyena (Pokémon)|<font color="Blue">Destruction</font>]] 19:13, 3 March 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effort Values checker? ==<br />
<br />
According to the articles regarding [[Blackthorn City]] and [[Opelucid City]], there is a lady who gives you a rough idea of your Pokemon's EVs. Can we get a list of phrases? In my playing experience, the only thing this person has ''ever'' said about any of my Pokémon is "It looks like your [Pokémon] ... could try a little harder", whether it's my Starter (who has long since maxed out a few EVs) or a freshly bred/caught Pokemon with no EVs at all. --''[[User:Stratelier|Stratelier]] 18:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)''<br />
:To my understanding, there are only two phrases. She will say "Could try a little harder" if you have not hit 510, and "has put in great effort" if it is at 510.[[User:Poke poke poke|Poke poke poke]] 23:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Switching out ==<br />
<br />
How does switching out work with EVs? Say I have a Nosepass, holding a Power Belt, as my lead Pokémon, and find a wild Geodude. I automatically send out my Nosepass, of course, then switch to my Weavile and KO the geodude. Will my Nosepass now gain 5 Defense EVs (Geodude's 1 given + 4 from the Power Belt) or 1, or none? On a side note, this page is getting pretty long. Are article talk pages ever archived or does that only apply to user talk pages? [[User:EnosShayrem|<span style="color:#697437;">Enos</span>]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Shay</span>]][[Kyurem (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#0088FF;">rem</span>]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|<sup><span style="color:#000000;">Ta</span><span style="color:#BBBBBB;">lk</span></sup>]] 16:36, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
:OK, I didn't see the conversation a few above me, and unless I'm horribly wrong here, the power items will always give extra EVs when the Pokémon gains EVs from battle, so goodbye. [[User:EnosShayrem|<span style="color:#697437;">Enos</span>]][[Shaymin (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Shay</span>]][[Kyurem (Pokémon)|<span style="color:#0088FF;">rem</span>]][[User_talk:EnosShayrem|<sup><span style="color:#000000;">Ta</span><span style="color:#BBBBBB;">lk</span></sup>]] 16:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Generation II confusion about special ==<br />
<br />
It says generation II is the same as generation I, and the special attack and special defence stat share the EV for special. That makes sense for backwards compatibility, but when I'm trying to keep track of my EVs in generation II I can't work out which one is used.<br />
<br />
Example: Hoothoot has sp. atk. and sp. def. of 36 and 56 respectively. Generation II uses just one EV for both, so when I kill a hoothoot, what gets added to the single EV for special? 36 or 56? I'm trying to keep track of how many EVs (or stat exp) my pokémon have earned, but don't know what to do for special and I can't find the answer anywhere. --[[User:Pan|Pan]] 09:36, 30 July 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==So...==<br />
This may be the same as a question above but is it possible to put more than 252 or 255 EVs into a stat? Like all 510? Or does it stop at 252 or 255? [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 18:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
:It stops at 255. But since 4 EVs are needed to increase a stat by one at level 100, there's not much point putting the final three into the stat. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 18:44, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is this what is needed to max out stats: IVs of 31 + the right nature/characteristic + 255 EVs? And is it true that you can only max out ''2'' stats? [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 21:59, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
:I think that's right, I have a Hacked {{p|Arceus}} that was supposed to have Perfect stats, But the nature redid the stats so that only HP and Attack remained maxed. BTW this question seems to be more suited to the forums. [[User:Truthseeker4449|Truth]][[User talk:Truthseeker4449|seeker]][[Special:Contributions/Truthseeker4449|4449]] 22:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Working in Gen V ==<br />
<br />
Okay, first of all I've been EV training for a while in my Pokemon white. I check the stats before and after every battle, and the stats are never recalculated for the said Pokemon. Can anyone explain this to me? [[User:Flygonfanno1|Flygonfanno1]]<br />
<br />
Yes, I have the same problem. [[User:RedYoshi|RedYoshi]] 18:52, 16 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:<s>From the Generation III section, still relevant in Generation V: "For every Pokémon that has gained Effort Points in battle, stats will be recalculated upon leveling up, except for Deoxys, whose stats are recalculated after every battle instead."</s> Nevermind, I was thinking about Gen. IV. [[User:Shiny Porygon|Shiny Porygon]] 18:35, 29 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
::Shiny Porygon, the Gen V section tells you that they're now recalculated after every battle, not after levelling up.<br />
<br />
::It may just be that your Pokémon's at a low level, so a small amount of EVs don't make a difference yet. What level is the Pokémon you're EV training? - [[User:Blazios|<span style="color:navy">Blazios</span>]] [[User Talk:Blazios|<span style="color:limegreen"><sub>talk</sub></span>]] 14:57, 29 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Working with the earliest form of EV training ==<br />
<br />
I just got the base stats of the Pokemon list printed from bulbapedia and I need a bit of guidance. I don't really understand how much effort value a Pokemon will yield if it has a different base Special Attack than Special Defense. There was only Special in gen 1 and the Stat EXP I read gave a poor example such as defeating 656 Mew give Max EVS since it's obvious that he has a base stat of 100 all over, meaning he can end up with all the same stats at level 100 with Max DVs and EVs. If an Eevee is defeated on Pokemon Yellow, since that is your first rival battle with an Eevee, does Pikachu gain an average of 54.17 Stat EXP in all stats or does he gain a separate 55 HP, 55 Attack, 55 Speed, 50 Defense and 45 or 65 Special Stat EXP? Or does Pikachu gain a total of 325 Stat EXP? How does this work and how do you keep track of this? I wish someone answered me on Yahoo Answers so I wouldn't have to ask here. ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 23:32, 12 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
<br />
Or since 45 and 65 /2 is 55 on average would it gain an average of 55 Special instead? ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 23:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
:The Generation I special stat is listed in the footer of the stats template for the relevant Pokemon. They can't be determined from the Gen II and onwards stats. <span class="sc">[[User:Werdnae|<span style="color:#2D4B98;">Werdnae</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Werdnae|<span style="color:#009000;">(talk)</span>]]</small> 03:18, 13 February 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Where is the footer of the stats template for the first 151 Pokemon? Also if I managed to take down an Eevee, 3 Pidgey, a Rattata, a Mankey, a Nidoran ♂, a Nidoran ◙, and a Spearow in Yellow with Pikachu in that order, how would the Stat EXP or their base stats converted to Stat EXP add up to my Pikachu's overall stats? ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 03:43, 13 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
<br />
I'm going to inform you that I have found the template. I may need to ask my mom to print a separate page only for gen 1 since it's a bad idea to mix up Special Attacks with Special Defenses base stats for Pokemon Stadium as it doesn't help me very much. But you could pretty much explain how those are converted after I read my stats knowing that they must have different base stats everywhere. ([[User:MichaelXD|MichaelXD]] 03:48, 13 February 2012 (UTC))<br />
<br />
Hi, i think there's something wrong stated:<br />
<br />
in Generation one the Exp all shares also STat Experience, i could even proof it if you wish(or you do it yourself :p )<br />
<br />
So please fix this^_^<br />
<br />
But i dont know if Stat exp is really shared, or every Pokemon gets the Basic undevided value, so if you have fun to discover that, pls do it =P, i trained 6 pokemon and after my fighter(only one pokemon fighted the hole time) got maxstats the other pokemons still get stat exp via boxtrick, but have increased there stats randomly if i didnt fought with them.<br />
<br />
So i guess they will be DEVIDED ;)<br />
<br />
cu<br />
<br />
--[[User:Wbuster|Wbuster]] 18:51, 2 March 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gen. I Stat Exp. - Divided by 4 or 8? ==<br />
<br />
The formula on this page for Gen. I has a 4 in the denominator, but the stat calculation formula on the page for IVs has the denominator for Stat Exp as 8. Which one is it?--[[User:RiverAura|<font color="#00CCFF">River</font>]][[User_Talk:RiverAura|<font color="#00FFCC">Aura</font>]] 20:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== So For Clarification for Gen 1/2 ==<br />
<br />
Since there's no joined EV cap between the different stats, there's no need to worry about EV training in a 'useless' stat on a Pokémon because all stats can eventually be trained to max anyway?<br />
<br />
Is there any way to calculate the number when a stat is finally maxed out in this generation? The ranges given on the page include the effects of natures which don't exist here. -- [[User:CryptRat|CryptRat]] 01:42, 20 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
==Appearance==<br />
How can you tell if your Pokemon has certain EVs? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] 01:22, 7 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
Wouldn't {{t|Fighting}}-type Pokemon receive a lot of [[Attack]] and even more [[Defense]] EVs because of their [[type]] advantages? [[User:Mr. Guye|Mr. Guye]] 01:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
*I do not think so, due to EV points being based on the pokemon they fight. IVs, however, are based on the pokemon, and do effect their stats much like EVS, but are Hereditary rather than earned. Hope That helped --[[User:Kajoman|Kajoman]] ([[User talk:Kajoman|talk]]) 19:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
*Almost forgot. You can Calculate your IVs here: http://veekun.com/dex/gadgets/stat_calculator. EVs, however, are a bit trickier, and are probably just easier to record as you earn them --[[User:Kajoman|Kajoman]] ([[User talk:Kajoman|talk]]) 19:55, 26 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Effort points ==<br />
<br />
What are effort points? Does the article directly define them? Are they different from effort values in any way? [[Special:Contributions/Enervation|<span style="color:black">~</span>]][[User:Enervation|Enervation]] 22:00, 11 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gen V section needs an update ==<br />
<br />
I found out through my own training recently that in Black and White Versions, a second level gained by defeating a single opponent causes the effort points from the defeated opponent to be added into the stats for the second level gained and all other levels gained from that victory. I tried to make an edit about this to the Generation V section, but I doubt I made it acceptable. If anyone could confirm my findings, and also make appropriate changes to the article, that would be fantastic. Thanks. [[User:Superbreeder|Super]][[User talk:Superbreeder|breeder]] 23:41, 11 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV training section? ==<br />
<br />
Would it be better to make the EV training section here, make an entire new page for it, or just add a Tips section for EV trainers? Support, discussion, and help from other developers would be appreciated --[[User:Kajoman|Kajoman]] ([[User talk:Kajoman|talk]]) 19:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== join avenue ==<br />
<br />
In black 2 and white 2, if you open up a gym or kitchen, they sell things that raise stats, or ev's. And if you open a salon, you can lower the stats. I want to know by how much. [[User:Deoxys80|Deoxys80]] ([[User talk:Deoxys80|talk]]) 16:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
I think it gives you ev's based on the lv of training i.e, Attack Lv.4 gives 4 effort values, Speed Lv.8 gives 8 evs, Ect.[[User:Glalie Power|Glalie Power]] ([[User talk:Glalie Power|talk]]) 02:18, 25 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== EV Points Earned? ==<br />
<br />
*How do you know I you receive any extra EV points. Are they shown in the stats each time you level up? --[[User:Kid Sonic|Kid Sonic]] ([[User talk:Kid Sonic|talk]]) 00:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
**4 EVs are equal to 1 base point for a stat. You do not need to level up to earn EV STATS. You earn them after enough battles (based on the Pokemon you fight or the "Power" held items. --[[User:Kid Sonic|Kid Sonic]] ([[User talk:Kid Sonic|talk]]) 03:02, 16 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== When using EV-reducing berries ==<br />
<br />
*CAUTION: When using these kinds of berries to get rid of unwanted EVs, '''the base stat gets lowered by one point'''. For example, if your Shuckle has 124 HP, using a Pomeg Berry will lower it to 123. --[[User:Kid Sonic|Kid Sonic]] ([[User talk:Kid Sonic|talk]]) 02:58, 16 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== The FULL EV calculation for ANY level ==<br />
<br />
Something that I found very annoying is that the listed EV calculation is one that works only for level 100 pokémon.<br />
After some testing, this seems to be the correct calculation:<br />
<br />
''Stat boost = EV*level/400''<br />
<br />
then that number is rounded ''down'' to the closest integer.<br />
<br />
<br />
Examples:<br />
<br />
<br />
'''120 EVs at level 100:'''<br />
<br />
120*100/400 = 30 stat boost<br />
<br />
<br />
'''120 EVs at level 25:'''<br />
<br />
120*25/400 = 7.5 stat boost<br />
<br />
7.5 rounded down = 7 stat boost<br />
<br />
<br />
Can this please be updated to the article page? I'm playing pokémmo atm and nobody seems to know anything other than "4 EVs = 1 stat boost", but that only applies to level 100 pokémon, so this article page indirectly causes false (or incomplete) information to be spread. {{unsigned|Mornedil}}<br />
:This formula actually does seem quite helpful. I support adding it to the page. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 01:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== EV Training ==<br />
So here it is. Im training 3 Charmanders and 2 Charizards for an "ultimate team"(I already have the 6th at 100). I've obviously been using the Macho Brace, and im also EV training them in specific stats. But the problem is, i haven't been counting the EV's accumulated, as some people do. So does anybody know the rough approximation of when a pokémon reaches its first maxed EV number with a Macho Brace? I reall don't want to mess up their training. Much appreciated.--[[User:XWaffle117x|XWaffle117x]] ([[User talk:XWaffle117x|talk]]) 01:40, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
:A single stat can only have 255 EVs, as such, unless the [[IV]] of the stat is known, it isn't possible to know if a stat is fully maxed out if the EVs are not kept track of. If you can figure out the IV for that stat, then it is possible to know how many EVs have been accumulated. Alternatively, certain people will give your Pokémon an Effort Ribbon if your Pokémon has attained 510 EVs. In Emerald, this person is located in [[Slateport_City#Energy_Guru|Slateport City]]. In Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum this person is found in [[Sunyshore_Market#Effort_Ribbons|Sunnyshore City Market]], and in HeartGold and SoulSilver this person is found in [[Blackthorn City]] in the House northeast of Pokémon Center. In Black and White (I'm not sure if its for Black 2 and White 2) a person is found in Opelucid City who will tell if a Pokémon has 510 EVs. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 02:31, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Alright. I already knew a good amount of things about the EV's(like how many go into each stat, max #, etc.). But i was just wondering if there was a good guess on which level I should start training on the other stat. But i did forget about the girl in Slateport, i'll just have to trade over from FireRed to check if i have hit max for the stat. Thanks for your help and time!!--[[User:XWaffle117x|XWaffle117x]] ([[User talk:XWaffle117x|talk]]) 07:40, 5 June 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Does decreasing Effort Values decrease stats? ==<br />
<br />
Hi, I am kind of new to EV training, and being as I just recently got my platinum reset, I was wondering at later levels, if you clear effort values, does it decrease the stat?[[User:Max2liam|Max2liam]] ([[User talk:Max2liam|talk]]) 01:39, 6 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, it does, but it depends how much Effort values you decrease. --[[User:NOBODY|NOBODY]] ([[User talk:NOBODY|talk]]) 15:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User [[user:SnorlaxMonster|SnorlaxMonster]] has suggested moving this page to {{p|Base stat}}. I oppose this. I believe the official reference to EVs as base stats was a mistake on the part of those who wrote up the information release - the term does not even accurately describe what they are. "Base" in this context implies before changing or modification, which is essentially the opposite of what EVs are. However, regardless of whether or not the official reference to EVs as base stats was an accident, changing it at this point in time will only cause a lot of confusion, in part because the term doesn't describe it properly and in part because there is already something else called base stats. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskivhttps://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Base_stats&diff=1950150Talk:Base stats2013-08-09T19:00:53Z<p>Viskiv: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Question ==<br />
I came looking for an answer to Base Stats and how evolution affects them. I checked the evolution page as well and found nothing. After googling "pokemon base stats evolution" I found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090323201124AA3kRL2<br />
<br />
Pokemon Evolution and Base Stats?<br />
Will a pokemon that evolved earlier be stronger, or have different stats (i.e., maxing out a Riolu's happiness and evolving it at level 2 as opposed to levelling it to raise its happiness and having it evolve at, say, 20) simply because of base stats? Riolu's base Attack is 70 while its base Special Attack is 35, while Lucario has 110 and 115, respectively. So if I evolve Riolu at level 20, will it have more attack than special attack, but lower overall stats than had I levelled it at 2?<br />
<br />
Answer 1: it doesn't matter what level you evolve it because stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution to fit the new base stats<br />
<br />
Answer 2:they would be exactly the same, not counting IVs, EVs and nature a riolu that evolved at level 2 and raised to level 20 will be exactly the same as a riolu which evolved at level 20<br />
<br />
First off, is it true that "stats are retroactively recalculated after evolution"? And can someone try to add the answer to this article or the evoultion article (or both).<br />
-Thanks --[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 17:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Base stats are inherent to a species. Every Lucario has the same base stats. IVs are different (those are determined at the Pokémon's in-game creation time, whether it's an encounter in battle, given by an NPC, or received in an egg), and EVs are determined by what Pokémon it battles.<br />
:To put it simply, if you cloned a level 1 Riolu, maxed its happiness, and rare candied it to level 2, evolving it and then battling six Bibarel, four Magneton, and two Pikachu to get it to level 20, it would be exactly the same as the level 1 Riolu you maxed the happiness of, trained it to level 20 against the EXACT SAME NUMBER of the EXACT SAME POKÉMON, and then evolved it. The problem is that cloning is really the only plausible way to have two Pokémon that start out the same, by having the exact same IVs, and training against the exact same Pokémon, aside from just using Rare Candies, is the only way to make sure EVs don't cause fluctuation in the stats (by level 20, EVs count for an up to 12-point difference in stats).<br />
:In short, no, it does not matter when you evolve a Pokémon. If it ends up at the same endpoint, that's always how it will be at that endpoint provided the same things are done on the way there (use Sun Stone, train against 50 Gastly, or train against the Gastly first, you'll still have the same Bellossom).<br />
:As for what the "retroactively recalculated" means, it means that the stat your Trapinch has in Attack does not carry over into its Vibrava form. For an Adamant natured Trapinch at level 35, with an IV of 26 in Attack and EVs of 200 in the same, its Attack is [((26 + 2 * 100 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 111. This is just by leveling up, as you see that the stats are calculated when you do (though usually you just scroll through them without a thought, don't you? I do...). Now, on attaining level 35, its evolution into Vibrava is induced. Vibrava has only 70 base Attack, which causes your Pokémon to actually have a lower Attack stat until its evolution into Flygon (who has the same base Attack as Trapinch). As Vibrava, at level 35, the Pokémon has an Attack of [((26 + 2 * 70 + (200/4)) * 35/100) + 5] * 1.1, or 88.<br />
:It's only complicated because you can't see the values; you have to know them. Too bad there's no real way to tell your IVs except through online calculators. '''[[User:TTEchidna|<span style="color:#FF0000">''TTE''</span>]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Now I understand it. The Trapinch example was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks alot ---[[User:Lnk2128|Lnk2128]] 15:32, 19 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Shouldn't the blunt points of this info be included in the article? I've always tried to evolve my pokemon ASAP thinking they would gain better overall stats, and after specifically looking for this info I only found it after going though the pages on "forms," "evolution," "base stats" and their respective talk pages. --[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 17:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Just another question: Was it always like that, or has it changed through Generation? [[User:Yohrd|Yohrd]] 06:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It was always like that. The major discrepancy people see is the difference due to so many hidden values, such as IVs and EVs. Every Pokémon of a species has the same base stats, but it is highly likely that no two Pokémon of the same species which a particular trainer has will have the exact same stats, due to differences in those hidden values. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 07:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I remember hearing about something like this as a kid, with my gen 1 Red. Everyone kept telling me it's all about the homegrown pokemon from a low level, hearing vaguely about how "no two pokemon are the same in stats," fearing my pokemon were screwed forever. Reading over IVs, EVs, eevees, whathaveyous makes me think there really needs to be a section to bring all of this together. I don't want formulas for powergaming/ect, I want a simple understanding that THIS is something simple to ensure extra points in X stat, and THIS is all the crap you don't need to worry about (form changes instantly change stats, so you don't need to worry about evolving ASAP)--[[User:Barakku|Barakku]] 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Level ==<br />
As to what level are the base stats on this site calculated? [[User:Xtreme Dragon Master|Xtreme Dragon Master]] 23:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
:They aren't that stats of a Pokémon at a particular level, thay are a base value taken from the game data. The game then puts the base stats into an equation (I don't know exactly what it does), which results in the stats you see when you check the Pokémon. BTW, you should sign on the same line as your comment, rather than on the next line. [[User:Werdnae|Werdnae]] 04:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Move ==<br />
User [[User:SnorlaxMonster|SnorlaxMonster]] has suggested moving this page to {{p|Species Stat}}. I strongly oppose this. The term "base stat" has been in use by the community for over a decade and is the primary name for these stats, while the term "species stat" has never seen any kind of widespread usage, not by the community nor by official sources. It is unfortunate that Nintendo refuses to officially acknowledge the existence of EVs and instead called EVs base stats, but although that may cause some ambiguity, far more confusion will be caused by moving the article to a name that's not even in usage. [[User:Viskiv|Viskiv]] ([[User talk:Viskiv|talk]]) 19:00, 9 August 2013 (UTC)</div>Viskiv