Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Ghetsis

2011-02-17T06:01:37Z

Veggietable: /* Japanese name romanization */

==Facial Damage==

Due to Geechisu having some sort of deformity in the right side of his face (apparent in his sprite and the latest coro coro artwork) that is most presented by him having an awkward shaped mouth, and also having that eyepatch thing, is it justifiable to say he may have some sort of facial damage? --[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 06:28, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
:Was wondering if you were going to post that here, well putting that he may have facial damage goes a little on the border of speculation but I do think that his oddly shaped mouth should be noticed since it's not a sprite mistake and was obviously on purpose [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 06:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
:: We've mentioned mass-fan-agreed-on speculation before. --[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 06:51, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Move to "Getis"? ==

If you listen to his battle music the choir says "Getis" over and over again, and so I think we should move it to "Getis". [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 04:41, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
:Not until there's a definite answer - plenty of people hear "Penance" being chanted, and before that track was identified as Geechisu's theme, it was believed to be Genosect's and gave rise to the "Dennis" meme because of people hearing that. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 01:58, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
::Except why would they be chanting an english word that sounds almost exactly like a pronunciation of the charecters name in a japanese game? It's much more likely they are saying "Getis", the characters name, than "Penance", something Getis is not showing at all (I mean, even after you beat him he still acts like he was doing the right thing, defiantly not showing penance at all), or the english name "Dennis", and a weird way of say the name as well (The "is" is not as stressed in the name dennis, as it is in the song, while Getis would have that stressed that way). [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 05:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:::It doesn't sound like Getis to me, and you yourself don't even seem sure so it won't be moved. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 06:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, what do you hear it as? And how do I not sound sure about it? I am very sure they are saying "Getis". [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 23:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::While you may hear it as "Getis", others may hear it as "Dennis" or "Penance" or even just indiscernible ominous chanting. At any rate, I'm fairly certain that it's a tad too shaky to be suitable evidence for moving a page. --'''[[User:Darkeiya|Darkeiya]]''' ''[[User talk:Darkeiya|talk to me!]]'' 00:38, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::I suppose you're right. Perhaps when he appears in the anime we'll find out how his name is pronounced (Although I do hear the chanting as "Getis" or "Geetis"). --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:18, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I guess we can wait to see how they pronounce it in the anime. It can't take too long for them to show Getis. I mean, he does appear very close to the start of the game. [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 06:30, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::::"Penance" fits with the Team Plasma theme of making people repent for abusing Pokémon. Granted that Geechisu does not himself do this, but he is still manipulating others into releasing their Pokémon as "penance" for imagined crimes. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 08:20, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Not really, because plasma is already dead when Getis attacks you. He's just attacking you in anger, not in anyway connected to penance. Penance would not make sense when talking about Getis making a desperate move to try to try to get revenge for destroying his dream. Besides, he wasn't really the sort of person who believed it was freeing pokemon, so Penance would actually be extremely out of context when fighting Getis. [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 06:49, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Romanization ==

It's just [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.ptitle2gli7wce&id=16638#16638 come to my attention] that ゲーチス may actually stand for "Goetis" (from ''{{wp|goetia|goēteia}}'', Greek for "sorcery"). Would this be suitable for everyone?—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 04:20, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
:Except goetis would be written as ゴーチス　instead of ゲーチス. {{unsigned|mikkim}}
::True, but the Japanese Wikipedia mentions that it can also be written as ゲーティア.[[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 10:41, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::So...are we good? Any objections?—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 22:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I did find this {{tt|Sanskrit|I think..}} term "gati" (going/motion/destiny, plural:gatis), the term is used in Buddhism to mean "course of existence" or "destiny". Apparently there are six realms (Deva - god, {{tt|Asura|Coincidentally, one of the names of the seven sages}} - titans, Manusyas - humans, Tiryaks -animals, Pretas - ghost, Narakas -hell beings). So his name could also be a reference to this also. [[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 01:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I guess that that can work. Goetis and Gatis both make more sense than most of the other names that have been guessed. Does anybody object to moving it to Goetis? [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 21:10, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Not a total objection, but perhaps it's just an origin and not the proper romanization? In that case, moving the page would be a mistake. Does Nintendo ever put out any media (be it guides, promotional material, etc.) which would use the romanizations of human characters' names, and thus put this issue to rest? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 23:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Ummm, maybe romanizing dento as dent, poddo as pod, and koon as corn is also just an origin but not the proper romanization? Geechisu can also be written as Getis, because the closest thing the Japanese have to a "ti" is chi and su can also be read with the u being silent. It would be a proper romanization, just as proper as デント/dento -> dent　ポッド/poddo -> pod　コオン/ koon -> corn. Offical media is not nessecary, because any objection that you could have to ゲエチス/geechisu -> getis would also apply to デント/ポッド/コオン -> dent/pod/corn. [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 00:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Technically I was opposed to those as well, but I suppose you have a point. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 00:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::There are countless possible spellings. Also, if Geechisu can be moved, then so should [[Shooti]] be moved to Shooty (the romanization we use now is simply incorrect because of prolonged "i"). Also, it's annoying how Bulbapedia lacks standards lately. I thought we aren't moving the pages because of romanizations, because we're waiting for English version. That's been the admins' trend towards moving lately. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:01, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, but are there countless spellings that actually make sense? I am not against Shooti being moved, and Geechisu -> Getis actually makes more sense than Shooti -> Shooty. If we aren't moving them to there correct romanizations, we might as well move Dent back to dento, Corn to Koon, Pod to Poddo, Iris to Airis, and so on. We are using the logical names for the gym leaders, so why are we not using the logical name for Goetis? {{unsigned|mikkim}}
: Given no one objected to it being a possible name origin, I added it to that section of his page while everyone tries figure out where to move it to. --[[User:Deuxhero|Deuxhero]] 01:59, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
: While on the subject of where to put the page, the character in question is one of the few we hear pronounced, as it is chanted in his battle theme (unless that is really is or "Penance" or hell, even "Dennis"), while hard to make out, "Geechisu" is clearly out, and it is something like "Goetis" or "Getis". Not that it matters given we will have an actual English name in a few weeks.

== Interview confirms name "GCis" ==

CoroCoro has an interview with Junichi Masuda that confirms that Geechisu's name is GCis, from the G and Cis (C#) that the timpanis play in his battle theme. [[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 21:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:Would you mind linking your source? —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 21:45, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::This spelling, albeit correct meaning-wise, is simply too fugly. Let's just wait for his English name, okie? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 22:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::That has nothing to do with this [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 22:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net (scroll down to the yellow box) [[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 22:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The only thing I see that confirming is the name's origin, not what its romanization is. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 22:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::If that is the name's origin, then I guess the correct spelling is how you spell the name of the letter Gee (for G), thus I go for Geecis.[[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 00:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

== Red Eyes ==

Notice that four of Geechy's six Pokémon have red sclera? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 03:54, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
:Notably, he also has a red shade on one of his eyes and two red eyes in his outfit. Coincidence? --[[User:Landfish7|'''Land''']][[User talk:Landfish7|'''fish7''']]''' 03:58, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
::If it were all of them, I would say yes, but unfortunately I think that it is just a slight co-incidence. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|'''Snorlax''']][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|'''Monster''']] 11:06, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia regarding appearance ==

Am I the only one who thinks Geechisu bears a passing resemblance to [http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/id/1178261/?size=400x400&site=rsoc_en&authtoken=7b86a2c58c4972d7e2e2aa060a3ce775&quality=100 this guy]? [[User:Glitchipedia|This message brought to you by Glitchipedia, the falsified encyclopedia]] 08:07, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
:: Wow, you're right!!!!! [[User:Mewtwo777|I am Darth Mewtwo... Fear me, and my team made entirely of Mewtwo!!!]] 02:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Trivia regarding music ==

I believe his battle music is the only one that has human voice. Is it not?'''[[User:Goldex555|Gold]][[User:Goldex555|ex]][[User:Goldex555|555]]''' 22:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

== Move to Ghetsis (NOT because of the rumors) ==

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud5ZwB8BwTA#t=3m5s

This was confirmed at the tour. See? [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] ([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]]) 00:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

== Japanese name romanization ==

So, what romanization should we use for his Japanese name. His English name is obviously corrupted, it's not a correct romanization of his Japanese name. I propose using "Gecis" in the Japanese context. It reflects the musical origin of his name well (and that inserted -e- reflects the pronounciation better and looks aesthetically better than "G'cis" or "G-cis", I don't think that this "e" ruins the etymology). So, what do you think? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 13:21, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:I think Gcis would be ideal, as it really is the true representation of the names origin, but Gecis doesn't deviate too much.--[[User:Jda95|'''jda''']][[User talk:Jda95|'''95''']] 03:48, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
:: I agree. [[User:Mewtwo777|I am Darth Mewtwo... Fear me, and my team made entirely of Mewtwo!!!]] 04:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
::: How about "Geecis"? A single 'E' would make it sound like the strong 'E' in "special" instead of the soft E that we use to call the letter G. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 06:01, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Red and Green beta

2011-02-09T23:07:40Z

Veggietable: /* Title change */

== Concept art ==

Where can i get a bigger picture of it?--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 03:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the picture, but I know that we don't use citations, so I'm totally erasing that citation.--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 21:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:We do know the female character was planned, we just need a picture. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:07, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

There is more concept art here: http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8356 [[User:Manomow|Manomow]] 23:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Leaf ==

Should someone put this picture in article?: [http://www.sailorteam.com/fakecard/starters/rgb.jpg].. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:Not necessarily Leaf, as it's an old picture. We have it elsewhere, though. I'm not sure where exactly, but I've seen it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Was it true? ==

There was supposed to be like seven versions of the games but gamefreak could not afford it.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
:Where in the world have you read or listened to that? [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 21:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
::I read it a long time ago in some magazine talking about some games that were being developed in japan.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 19:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I think I’ve read that too... perhaps an interview with Satoshi Tajiri or Shigeru Miyamoto? I think maybe it wasn’t about finance so much as taking advice from a senior game designer about simplifying in order to get it done( like how ''Zelda''’s ''Triforce'' trilogy became the ''Oracle'' duo). Still, I wouldn’t add it unless someone finds the interview for reference. --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 21:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you think we should try to get this confirmed? Or would it not matter--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

== Beta names of Pokémon ==

Is it worth mentioning reasons why the names were changed? For example, the fact that it would impossible to trademark words like "Lucky" and "dodo"? --[[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Umm...some of the names there are the same... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 18:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not the issue; the issue is that they were changed for a second time and possible reasons behind it. :) [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

== The other concept art? ==

Does [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11718&d=1247599349 the] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11717&d=1247599296 other] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11719&d=1247599367 concept art] count? The "Capsule Monsters" ones. Should they be mentioned? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}
:If better quality ones can be found, [[Capsule Monsters|this article]] might want them. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hm..Sorry,I don't know of any better quality ones. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Incorrect Translation ==

While no beta Pokémon remains in the coding, it is interesting to note that the official website for Super Smash Bros. lists a character from the Pokémon franchise called ポケモンのだれか, whose name translates to "Who of Pokémon?". It is possible that the name was used as a "cover-up" to not reveal the name of an unused Pokémon. However, it can also mean that it just sends out a random Pokémon, as there are other obscure characters in the list, such as James Bond and Ash Ketchum. 
 ---
... It says "Somebody from Pokemon". ("Some Pokemon" would probably be a smoother translation.)
People who barely speak japanese (if at all) should not be jumping to conclusions. Contextually, the meaning is pretty clear.

== http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult2.html ==

Now that I look at this website further, it's just an opinion poll. "Most desired characters if they made a sequel to Smash Bros" (Hence characters like Ash Ketchum and James Bond [goldeneye was popular at the time] appearing). So really it's completely irrelevant. Lugia was probably on the list because he already existed in japan.
:Neat find, umm lets see what others think.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm, there's nothing else to discuss about it.O_o I checked the dates and this poll was from shortly before the Lugia movie opened in theatres in Japan. And I speak Japanese, so I know what the poll says.

== Text when using Cut outside of battle ==

I very faintly recall when seeing an official guide, there was a screenshot of a Pokémon using Cut outside of battle. However, I think the text in the screenshot said something like "[Pokémon] cut down the bush!" (unfortunately, my memory is faint here, so I'm not 100% sure about this). However, the final version says "[Pokémon] hacked away with Cut!" Does anybody know for a fact whether this is true or not? [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 03:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:That may very well be true, stuff like that does appear in the guides. I know the instruction manual has a bunch of beta screenshots in it (Poké Mart says "Shop", "THE BROCK wants to fight") [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::The "Shop" part is only in the Japanese version. I think. I might need to check.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I've got JP Red and they all say "Shop", which as we all know was changed to "Mart" for w/e reason. Buuuut in the English R/B manuals the screenshots still say "Shop" ;D [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::::That's interesting, and I know they called a Great Ball a Super Ball in one picture.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think the English version is actually the only one that says "Mart." Once I played a Spanish version, and it said... "Shop" (which doesn't make sense, as the proper word is "tienda"). I think I saw other foreign language versions with "Shop" too. [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 12:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Ookido-sensei ==

We have a section about Oak having a Pokemon team programmed into the game, but it doesn't mention that this character was known as Ookido-sensei (オーキドせんせい, rather than Ookido-hakase オーキドはかせ) in the Japanese version. (Ref: [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AD%E3%83%89%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93%E3%81%9B%E3%81%84 Japanese wiki], note Youtube link.) Is this worth mentioning? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 23:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:What do the two names mean in English? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 09:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
::"Hakase" is "professor/doctor/etc." and "sensei" is "teacher/master/etc."... roughly. "Sensei" can mean many things in different contexts. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Regarding the Badges beta ==

''When used outside of battle, they have another strange effect - after the throwing animation, the music changes to a strange, unused tune not heard anywhere else.''

Anyone have a YouTube or the like link to said "strange unused tune"? Does anybody have it? [[User:Fairy Red|Fairy Red]] 07:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== "The BROCK" wants to Fight. Would adding a Pictures help? ==

I have the English/Dutch Manual that is sold in Europe. There is "The BROCK wants to Fight" Image in the Manual. Should I scan it? Also the Route 1 Page has TWO types of sign posts, for the same sign. Shop is shown on the map of Virddian, Want that too? [[User:Big Nutter|Big Nutter]] 14:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah. Make sure it's a good quality scan though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Something I noticed when checking locations by index number in Generation I ==

Identifiers/Index Numbers 00 (0) to 0A (10) are the main towns and cities such as Pallet Town, Pewter City, Viridian City etc. 0C (12) is the first route i.e. Route 1. Noticing this I developed a Gameshark code 010B5ED3 for use on Pokémon Red/Blue to take the player to location #11 (0B). It crashes the game if you activate the code when entering through a door but if you force the game to display it on the Town Map it is directly north of the Pokémon League, do you think this is probably just a pure coincidence? There is no defined data for its name, so the game refers to it as "PALLET TOWN". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== Title change ==

Should we change the title of the article from "Pokémon Red and Green beta" to "Generation I beta" or something to that effect? It's because from the info we have in the article, we are mentioning aspects of the betas of all the Generation I games, not just of Red and Green. Thus, the current title is unfitting when related to the contents. [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 17:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'd usually say we should leave it at Red & Green because the finished R&G is kind of the beta for Blue/RB/Yellow... ''but'' there is a bunch of information in this article that only applies to Blue/international RB/Yellow, and there's also plenty that applies to all Generation I versions. In short, I think a move would be appropriate. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 14:31, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
::"''The'' beta?" In general the original assumption of there actually being a single 'beta version' of a Pokémon game with each and every feature known of that game is quite speculative. There is no solid proof but game developers usually do not simply produce two versions of the game (e.g. pre-release and release). Instead, they usually save many revisions (versions) of the game, for example lots of prototype versions of many of the classic Sonic games have been leaked, even those for the same game. There's also the distinction between Alpha and Beta; Alpha denotes when testing techniques are very brief and the product is not feature complete (note planned features are not always the only final features). Borderline between Alpha and Beta is probably what you mean, although many features are often added (or removed) in later Beta stages too, maybe due to technical limitations or a good 'brain-wave'.

::I'd prefer that we just move every page to "Prototype and scrapped features of (Game Series)". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: I say it's best as it is. Why?
First, we have a format. And that format is to have articles for each individual game, not for whole generations. If we change this into "Generation I Beta", then we'd have to merge GS and Crystal's Beta articles into one single article with the name "Generation II Beta", and even worse, all the Gen III and IV games, to keep consistency, and we know that would not be the best move. It's better to leave it as it is for the sake of consistency.
Second, Red and Blue is Red and Green with different names and translated text, not different games. I don't eat the universal assumption that they are different games, since they retain Red and Green's version exclusive Pokémon and even keep glitches that were not present anymore in Blue but were in Red and Green (Missingno.); the only thing that was carried over from Blue was its graphics and the evolving Raichu text in Cinnabar, but otherwise, their still Red and Green with Blue's updated graphics. Calling them different games just because of minor changes would be like considering Kin and Gin different games from Gold and Silver because of the Teddiursa and Phanpy lines as vesion exclusives being switched from the Japanese versions -it just don't make sense.
Third. The "exclusive English Red and Blue beta content" consists in translated text only ("The BROCK" and different Pokémon names), not actual elements of their own, so it doesn't really count as beta for different/new games, but rather as beta text for a LOCALIZED VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL GAMES.
With all of this in mind, it can be well concluded that Japanese Red and Green (or Aka and Midori if you prefer) and International Red and Blue are the same game, not different ones, thus, is there still any true reason left to rename the article? The best we can do in my opinion is to rename it "Red, Green AND BLUE Beta" and split the exclusive Yellow beta content (is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?) into a separate article to keep up with the other generations' beta articles. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 17:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::@"is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?". Not much, the unused battle system using the dialogue string "Hurry, get away" when you attempt to attack and an unused soundtrack (only existing in the Pikachu's Beach/ bonus trainer soundbank) --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 19:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, our Red and Blue's game engine is derived from the [[Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|Japanese Blue version]] which was notably different than that of the original Red and Green. Though, calling this article "Pokémon Red and Green beta" is potentially misguiding because it implies that all of the unused elements of Red/Blue/Yellow were originally planned to be included in the original Red/Green to begin with, which would be speculation if anything because of the (exclusive) unused content within Pokémon Yellow; it doesn't exist in the newer Pokémon Red/Blue engine, neither the original Pokémon Red/Green. I don't see a problem with making a separate article for Pokémon Yellow, we have "Pokémon Crystal Beta" which would be of about the same size of a "Pokémon Yellow Beta" (though I prefer we just use something in the title like 'unused content' instead of beta, we have concept art which is more likely to be alpha/pre-alpha content) . --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I acknowledged the fact that our Red and Blue were made from Blue's engine, but IN CONTENT, they are still Red and Green (I detailedly explained why I consider it that way), plus there are no Japanese Blue nor English Red and Blue exclusive TRUE beta elements (aside from text translations in the case of the English RB), so my point still stands, and thus, I keep my suggestion: in my opinion, the best is to rename the article, but not "Gen I beta", but rather into "Red, Green and Blue beta" (since Red and Blue are nothing but debugged versions of Red and Green, not independent games) and split the Yellow elements into a separate article like those of Crystal, Emerald and Platinum.[[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 05:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, that sounds like a good idea. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 08:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
There ''are'' some parts of the article that refer to international Red/Blue but not Japanese Red/Green, like the "The Misty wants to fight" section. [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[Special:Contributions/Flicky|1991]] 13:53, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Actually yes that's right, "The" included prior to a trainer class didn't have an equivalent transliteration "ザ" in the original Red and Green, though Veggietable acknowledges this. Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable? Some of the temporary placeholder names used in American promotions like "Ness" for Lapras weren't direct transliterations of the Japanese names. Also, thought someone would be interested, transliterated (though it might not be actually?) text in only the localized Red/Blue outside of Japan refers to an old in-game trade exclusive to Japanese Blue, where you receive a {{p|Beedrill}} but it's now referred to as "CHIKUCHIKU". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I already DID aknowledged that the "The BROCK" addition in the international versions as American-original, but that comes because of the different sentence structures in Japanese and English, where a pronoun isn't needed in Japanese but is in English, so, while still "original" material in the beta English releases, it derives from translation issues, and thus, my original point (which is that all the "changes" made in the international releases where made due to localization ) still stands and remains congruent. As I told a couple of times before, conseidering them separate games just for minor additions is not quite congruent, and going by this logic, Japanese and International versions of HGSS must be considered different games too (and as such, get separate articles or the article be renamed into "Generation II remakes") just because one has a Game Corner and the other has Voltorb Flip -it just don't make sense. Had Red and Blue kept Blue's CONTENT features (version exclusives, in-game trades, removal of Missingno., et al) or introduced brand-new features like Yellow did, then yes, I'd say they are differeht games and that the article must be splitted into "RG beta" and "RB beta" or me renamed "Gen I Beta", but it wasn't the case. That's why to avoid confusion I suggested (and I feel honored that my suggetsion was put on the main article) instead to rename it "Red, Green and Blue beta", thus acknowledging the identity of Blue and Red and Blue, if not as separate games, at least as different revisions of the game deserving mention in the article's title. If you still want the distintion to be made, the article could have a "localization beta" sub-section and put there the Pokémon names and the "The Brock" thing. To make it shorter, adressing your specific question of "Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable?", my answer is: "I'm not saying that is not notable, just that it's not enough notable to be considered A DIFFERENT GAME", after all, international releases OF EVERYTHING are changed, because according to context, we can't always get direct translation/transilteration -we instead get adaptations, and such, names or sentences might be added or removed. If we considered everything that is not A DIRECT TRANSLATION to be a different entity dererving its own article, then half of the Pokémon must be considered different from their Japanese counterparts (it's like saying "Lizardon is already an English word so it didn't need anything more than a romaji transilteration, but instead we got Charizard; since they have different names, then it's original content and thus they must be different Pokémon"). Its the same: International Green got its named changed into Blue and got some changes ("The BROCK") due to localization, but nothing more. The in-game trade refering to a Blue event I think was a slip from the localization team caused by the use of Blue's engine, but the actual trade was still that of Red and Green, that's why I still consider them Red and Green. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 23:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I actually like your idea, Veggie. Let's rename this to Pokémon Red, Green, and Blue beta and create Pokémon Yellow beta. And speaking of the latter, would it be something like [[User:Pokemon_lover/Pokémon_Yellow_beta|this]]? [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 23:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm not against your idea Veggie. [Actually it was from an in-game Japanese Blue exclusive trade (Butterfree for Beedrill) where "CHIKUCHIKU" is the Beedrill according to [[Meowth346]] and the 39 MISSINGNO. were never removed in Japanese Blue].

::::I'm not trying to make any distinctions of unused content between Red/Green/Blue and the Japanese Blue such that they require different pages, I was just trying to outline what the differences were before jumping to any conclusions. I agree with your idea, that having a separate page for Japanese Blue would be similar to "making separate pages for Pokémon Kin and Gin", (there are a few dialogue strings which were never translated for Gold and Silver relating to a debugging interface in Japanese Kin and Gin but it doesn't matter). I was only suggesting that we use the format "Prototype and scrapped features of (XXX)" because concept art does not class as beta, it is alpha/pre-alpha content. I agree that we could have two separate articles about Red/Green/Blue, Yellow and implement any 'localization beta' content into their own sections. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 12:54, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

:::::OK, Then I'm completely fine with it. So, who decides if the rename is done? By the way, Pokémon lover's draft for Yellow's article is very good to be honest. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 16:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Yellow beta got its article already, so should we move this to Red, Green, and Blue beta or not? It'd make sense if it was moved but I'm not sure who has the last word on this. And thanks for the compliment, Veggie. xD [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 20:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Red and Green are just the same as Red and Blue worldwide. I oppose moving. [[User:Pokered4000|Pokered4000]] 06:18, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::Yes (I do agree in that they're the same as you can see if your ead my previous comments) BUUUUT they are known as Pokémon Red and Blue worldwide, (and this article contains some localization errors from the out-of-Japan release) so it would fit better to have the international names (that is Red and Blue) along with the original ones (Red and Green), thus "Red, Green and Blue beta". [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 23:07, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

==Should I include this?==
A tentative 'debug menu' can be accessed via the "Game Freak" screen. Only in Pokémon Yellow if the title screen is loaded with an invalid sound font a text box will appear below the "Game Freak" screen and the equivalent of the 'item obtained' sound will play, although the sound is only noticeable if the sound-font is quickly changed back to its usual default. The menu can be scrolled through, although the text is illegible and the only remaining option left for the player is to exit the menu. <ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AEI-ijQMBg Youtube video]</ref> <references/>--[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 18:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

== Beta Names revisited ==

[http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/imageupload/1286203597.or.3711.jpg] <- This seems to have the earlier beta names than what is included in the page. Keep in mind, though, that they all have a 7-character limit. It seems that they hadn't yet expanded the names. You can see a lot of the betas are similar, but there are quite a few that aren't listed. Some are impossible to make out, because they are only 7-characters... Exeggcute for example. Should this be considered and potentially added to the article? [[User:Mefredbob|Mefredbob]] 21:42, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon in Latin America

2011-02-09T23:02:29Z

Veggietable: /* Translation error */ new section

==Pokemon 1st reached Latin America==
The article implies that Club Nintendo first talked about Pokemon in 1998, however this is wrong. Club Nintendo actually covered the japanese craze for the game and G/S beta way before R/B were ever even confirmed to be localized. I don't have the magazine anymore but it must have been 1996/7.[[User:Sdp|Sdp]]
* I do have the magazines. Not only that, they even covered the original release in February 1996 when the game was furst shown at Shoshinkai '95. Then they forgot about the game until late '97 when in Space World '97 Nintendo announced they'd export Pokémon to the US and showed demos for Stadium, Hey you Pikachu and the GS beta. Because of that, they dedicated about half the issue to Pokémon. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 22:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

==Flags==
Place your votes guys: do we keep using the current image with all flags, or do we program it to rotate the flags (same way that Arceus rotates types)? --[[User:ElectAbuzzzz|'''electAbuzz''']][[User talk:ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']][[Special:Contributions/ElectAbuzzzz|'''z''']] 16:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
:It's a good idea, but I also think that instead of going the flags should be a picture like [http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Hispanic_America_(orthographic_projection).svg this]. --[[User:Toonamimaniacolatino|Toonami]][http://wiki.pkstadium.com/Usuario:Toonamimaniacolatino maniacolatino] 17:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
::I kinda like the map thing too...although I don't mind the current flag image. [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 05:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

== Translation error ==

There's a section in the acrticle that talks about the "Elegidos Pokémon" special. However, when pointing at the text, it shows the English translation to be "Choose the Pokémon". The correct translation is "Pokémon chosen" (as if "Pokémon" is the adjective in the sentence and "chosen" is the noun, like in the terms "Pokémon Battle" or "Pokémon Gym"). Can someone correct this or teach me how to do it? [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 23:02, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon in Latin America

2011-02-09T22:58:31Z

Veggietable: /* Pokemon 1st reached Latin America */

Talk:Ghetsis

2010-12-01T00:08:35Z

Veggietable: /* Interview confirms name "GCis" */

==Facial Damage==

Due to Geechisu having some sort of deformity in the right side of his face (apparent in his sprite and the latest coro coro artwork) that is most presented by him having an awkward shaped mouth, and also having that eyepatch thing, is it justifiable to say he may have some sort of facial damage? --[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 06:28, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
:Was wondering if you were going to post that here, well putting that he may have facial damage goes a little on the border of speculation but I do think that his oddly shaped mouth should be noticed since it's not a sprite mistake and was obviously on purpose [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 06:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
:: We've mentioned mass-fan-agreed-on speculation before. --[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 06:51, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

== Move to "Getis"? ==

If you listen to his battle music the choir says "Getis" over and over again, and so I think we should move it to "Getis". [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 04:41, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
:Not until there's a definite answer - plenty of people hear "Penance" being chanted, and before that track was identified as Geechisu's theme, it was believed to be Genosect's and gave rise to the "Dennis" meme because of people hearing that. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 01:58, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
::Except why would they be chanting an english word that sounds almost exactly like a pronunciation of the charecters name in a japanese game? It's much more likely they are saying "Getis", the characters name, than "Penance", something Getis is not showing at all (I mean, even after you beat him he still acts like he was doing the right thing, defiantly not showing penance at all), or the english name "Dennis", and a weird way of say the name as well (The "is" is not as stressed in the name dennis, as it is in the song, while Getis would have that stressed that way). [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 05:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:::It doesn't sound like Getis to me, and you yourself don't even seem sure so it won't be moved. --[[User:HoennMaster|Hoenn]][[User talk:HoennMaster|Master]] 06:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, what do you hear it as? And how do I not sound sure about it? I am very sure they are saying "Getis". [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 23:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::While you may hear it as "Getis", others may hear it as "Dennis" or "Penance" or even just indiscernible ominous chanting. At any rate, I'm fairly certain that it's a tad too shaky to be suitable evidence for moving a page. --'''[[User:Darkeiya|Darkeiya]]''' ''[[User talk:Darkeiya|talk to me!]]'' 00:38, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::I suppose you're right. Perhaps when he appears in the anime we'll find out how his name is pronounced (Although I do hear the chanting as "Getis" or "Geetis"). --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 11:18, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I guess we can wait to see how they pronounce it in the anime. It can't take too long for them to show Getis. I mean, he does appear very close to the start of the game. [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 06:30, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
::::::::"Penance" fits with the Team Plasma theme of making people repent for abusing Pokémon. Granted that Geechisu does not himself do this, but he is still manipulating others into releasing their Pokémon as "penance" for imagined crimes. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 08:20, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::Not really, because plasma is already dead when Getis attacks you. He's just attacking you in anger, not in anyway connected to penance. Penance would not make sense when talking about Getis making a desperate move to try to try to get revenge for destroying his dream. Besides, he wasn't really the sort of person who believed it was freeing pokemon, so Penance would actually be extremely out of context when fighting Getis. [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 06:49, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

== Romanization ==

It's just [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.ptitle2gli7wce&id=16638#16638 come to my attention] that ゲーチス may actually stand for "Goetis" (from ''{{wp|goetia|goēteia}}'', Greek for "sorcery"). Would this be suitable for everyone?—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 04:20, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
:Except goetis would be written as ゴーチス　instead of ゲーチス. {{unsigned|mikkim}}
::True, but the Japanese Wikipedia mentions that it can also be written as ゲーティア.[[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 10:41, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
:::So...are we good? Any objections?—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 22:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I did find this {{tt|Sanskrit|I think..}} term "gati" (going/motion/destiny, plural:gatis), the term is used in Buddhism to mean "course of existence" or "destiny". Apparently there are six realms (Deva - god, {{tt|Asura|Coincidentally, one of the names of the seven sages}} - titans, Manusyas - humans, Tiryaks -animals, Pretas - ghost, Narakas -hell beings). So his name could also be a reference to this also. [[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 01:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::I guess that that can work. Goetis and Gatis both make more sense than most of the other names that have been guessed. Does anybody object to moving it to Goetis? [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 21:10, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Not a total objection, but perhaps it's just an origin and not the proper romanization? In that case, moving the page would be a mistake. Does Nintendo ever put out any media (be it guides, promotional material, etc.) which would use the romanizations of human characters' names, and thus put this issue to rest? --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 23:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Ummm, maybe romanizing dento as dent, poddo as pod, and koon as corn is also just an origin but not the proper romanization? Geechisu can also be written as Getis, because the closest thing the Japanese have to a "ti" is chi and su can also be read with the u being silent. It would be a proper romanization, just as proper as デント/dento -> dent　ポッド/poddo -> pod　コオン/ koon -> corn. Offical media is not nessecary, because any objection that you could have to ゲエチス/geechisu -> getis would also apply to デント/ポッド/コオン -> dent/pod/corn. [[User:Mikkim|Mikkim]] 00:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Technically I was opposed to those as well, but I suppose you have a point. --[[User:AndyPKMN|AndyPKMN]] 00:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::There are countless possible spellings. Also, if Geechisu can be moved, then so should [[Shooti]] be moved to Shooty (the romanization we use now is simply incorrect because of prolonged "i"). Also, it's annoying how Bulbapedia lacks standards lately. I thought we aren't moving the pages because of romanizations, because we're waiting for English version. That's been the admins' trend towards moving lately. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:01, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, but are there countless spellings that actually make sense? I am not against Shooti being moved, and Geechisu -> Getis actually makes more sense than Shooti -> Shooty. If we aren't moving them to there correct romanizations, we might as well move Dent back to dento, Corn to Koon, Pod to Poddo, Iris to Airis, and so on. We are using the logical names for the gym leaders, so why are we not using the logical name for Goetis? {{unsigned|mikkim}}

== Interview confirms name "GCis" ==

CoroCoro has an interview with Junichi Masuda that confirms that Geechisu's name is GCis, from the G and Cis (C#) that the timpanis play in his battle theme. [[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 21:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:Would you mind linking your source? —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 21:45, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
::This spelling, albeit correct meaning-wise, is simply too fugly. Let's just wait for his English name, okie? --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 22:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::That has nothing to do with this [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 22:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net (scroll down to the yellow box) [[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 22:09, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::The only thing I see that confirming is the name's origin, not what its romanization is. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jello]][[User Talk:Jello|talk]] 22:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
:::If that is the name's origin, then I guess the correct spelling is how you spell the name of the letter Gee (for G), thus I go for Geecis.[[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 00:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Red and Green beta

2010-11-14T16:05:11Z

Veggietable: /* Title change */

== Concept art ==

Where can i get a bigger picture of it?--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 03:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the picture, but I know that we don't use citations, so I'm totally erasing that citation.--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 21:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:We do know the female character was planned, we just need a picture. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:07, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

== Leaf ==

Should someone put this picture in article?: [http://www.sailorteam.com/fakecard/starters/rgb.jpg].. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:Not necessarily Leaf, as it's an old picture. We have it elsewhere, though. I'm not sure where exactly, but I've seen it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Was it true? ==

There was supposed to be like seven versions of the games but gamefreak could not afford it.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
:Where in the world have you read or listened to that? [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 21:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
::I read it a long time ago in some magazine talking about some games that were being developed in japan.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 19:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I think I’ve read that too... perhaps an interview with Satoshi Tajiri or Shigeru Miyamoto? I think maybe it wasn’t about finance so much as taking advice from a senior game designer about simplifying in order to get it done( like how ''Zelda''’s ''Triforce'' trilogy became the ''Oracle'' duo). Still, I wouldn’t add it unless someone finds the interview for reference. --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 21:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you think we should try to get this confirmed? Or would it not matter--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

== Beta names of Pokémon ==

Is it worth mentioning reasons why the names were changed? For example, the fact that it would impossible to trademark words like "Lucky" and "dodo"? --[[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Umm...some of the names there are the same... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 18:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not the issue; the issue is that they were changed for a second time and possible reasons behind it. :) [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

== The other concept art? ==

Does [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11718&d=1247599349 the] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11717&d=1247599296 other] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11719&d=1247599367 concept art] count? The "Capsule Monsters" ones. Should they be mentioned? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}
:If better quality ones can be found, [[Capsule Monsters|this article]] might want them. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hm..Sorry,I don't know of any better quality ones. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Incorrect Translation ==

While no beta Pokémon remains in the coding, it is interesting to note that the official website for Super Smash Bros. lists a character from the Pokémon franchise called ポケモンのだれか, whose name translates to "Who of Pokémon?". It is possible that the name was used as a "cover-up" to not reveal the name of an unused Pokémon. However, it can also mean that it just sends out a random Pokémon, as there are other obscure characters in the list, such as James Bond and Ash Ketchum. 
 ---
... It says "Somebody from Pokemon". ("Some Pokemon" would probably be a smoother translation.)
People who barely speak japanese (if at all) should not be jumping to conclusions. Contextually, the meaning is pretty clear.

== http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult2.html ==

Now that I look at this website further, it's just an opinion poll. "Most desired characters if they made a sequel to Smash Bros" (Hence characters like Ash Ketchum and James Bond [goldeneye was popular at the time] appearing). So really it's completely irrelevant. Lugia was probably on the list because he already existed in japan.
:Neat find, umm lets see what others think.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm, there's nothing else to discuss about it.O_o I checked the dates and this poll was from shortly before the Lugia movie opened in theatres in Japan. And I speak Japanese, so I know what the poll says.

== Text when using Cut outside of battle ==

I very faintly recall when seeing an official guide, there was a screenshot of a Pokémon using Cut outside of battle. However, I think the text in the screenshot said something like "[Pokémon] cut down the bush!" (unfortunately, my memory is faint here, so I'm not 100% sure about this). However, the final version says "[Pokémon] hacked away with Cut!" Does anybody know for a fact whether this is true or not? [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 03:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:That may very well be true, stuff like that does appear in the guides. I know the instruction manual has a bunch of beta screenshots in it (Poké Mart says "Shop", "THE BROCK wants to fight") [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::The "Shop" part is only in the Japanese version. I think. I might need to check.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I've got JP Red and they all say "Shop", which as we all know was changed to "Mart" for w/e reason. Buuuut in the English R/B manuals the screenshots still say "Shop" ;D [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::::That's interesting, and I know they called a Great Ball a Super Ball in one picture.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think the English version is actually the only one that says "Mart." Once I played a Spanish version, and it said... "Shop" (which doesn't make sense, as the proper word is "tienda"). I think I saw other foreign language versions with "Shop" too. [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 12:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Ookido-sensei ==

We have a section about Oak having a Pokemon team programmed into the game, but it doesn't mention that this character was known as Ookido-sensei (オーキドせんせい, rather than Ookido-hakase オーキドはかせ) in the Japanese version. (Ref: [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AD%E3%83%89%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93%E3%81%9B%E3%81%84 Japanese wiki], note Youtube link.) Is this worth mentioning? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 23:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:What do the two names mean in English? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 09:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
::"Hakase" is "professor/doctor/etc." and "sensei" is "teacher/master/etc."... roughly. "Sensei" can mean many things in different contexts. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Regarding the Badges beta ==

''When used outside of battle, they have another strange effect - after the throwing animation, the music changes to a strange, unused tune not heard anywhere else.''

Anyone have a YouTube or the like link to said "strange unused tune"? Does anybody have it? [[User:Fairy Red|Fairy Red]] 07:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== "The BROCK" wants to Fight. Would adding a Pictures help? ==

I have the English/Dutch Manual that is sold in Europe. There is "The BROCK wants to Fight" Image in the Manual. Should I scan it? Also the Route 1 Page has TWO types of sign posts, for the same sign. Shop is shown on the map of Virddian, Want that too? [[User:Big Nutter|Big Nutter]] 14:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah. Make sure it's a good quality scan though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Something I noticed when checking locations by index number in Generation I ==

Identifiers/Index Numbers 00 (0) to 0A (10) are the main towns and cities such as Pallet Town, Pewter City, Viridian City etc. 0C (12) is the first route i.e. Route 1. Noticing this I developed a Gameshark code 010B5ED3 for use on Pokémon Red/Blue to take the player to location #11 (0B). It crashes the game if you activate the code when entering through a door but if you force the game to display it on the Town Map it is directly north of the Pokémon League, do you think this is probably just a pure coincidence? There is no defined data for its name, so the game refers to it as "PALLET TOWN". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== Title change ==

Should we change the title of the article from "Pokémon Red and Green beta" to "Generation I beta" or something to that effect? It's because from the info we have in the article, we are mentioning aspects of the betas of all the Generation I games, not just of Red and Green. Thus, the current title is unfitting when related to the contents. [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 17:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'd usually say we should leave it at Red & Green because the finished R&G is kind of the beta for Blue/RB/Yellow... ''but'' there is a bunch of information in this article that only applies to Blue/international RB/Yellow, and there's also plenty that applies to all Generation I versions. In short, I think a move would be appropriate. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 14:31, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
::"''The'' beta?" In general the original assumption of there actually being a single 'beta version' of a Pokémon game with each and every feature known of that game is quite speculative. There is no solid proof but game developers usually do not simply produce two versions of the game (e.g. pre-release and release). Instead, they usually save many revisions (versions) of the game, for example lots of prototype versions of many of the classic Sonic games have been leaked, even those for the same game. There's also the distinction between Alpha and Beta; Alpha denotes when testing techniques are very brief and the product is not feature complete (note planned features are not always the only final features). Borderline between Alpha and Beta is probably what you mean, although many features are often added (or removed) in later Beta stages too, maybe due to technical limitations or a good 'brain-wave'.

::I'd prefer that we just move every page to "Prototype and scrapped features of (Game Series)". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: I say it's best as it is. Why?
First, we have a format. And that format is to have articles for each individual game, not for whole generations. If we change this into "Generation I Beta", then we'd have to merge GS and Crystal's Beta articles into one single article with the name "Generation II Beta", and even worse, all the Gen III and IV games, to keep consistency, and we know that would not be the best move. It's better to leave it as it is for the sake of consistency.
Second, Red and Blue is Red and Green with different names and translated text, not different games. I don't eat the universal assumption that they are different games, since they retain Red and Green's version exclusive Pokémon and even keep glitches that were not present anymore in Blue but were in Red and Green (Missingno.); the only thing that was carried over from Blue was its graphics and the evolving Raichu text in Cinnabar, but otherwise, their still Red and Green with Blue's updated graphics. Calling them different games just because of minor changes would be like considering Kin and Gin different games from Gold and Silver because of the Teddiursa and Phanpy lines as vesion exclusives being switched from the Japanese versions -it just don't make sense.
Third. The "exclusive English Red and Blue beta content" consists in translated text only ("The BROCK" and different Pokémon names), not actual elements of their own, so it doesn't really count as beta for different/new games, but rather as beta text for a LOCALIZED VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL GAMES.
With all of this in mind, it can be well concluded that Japanese Red and Green (or Aka and Midori if you prefer) and International Red and Blue are the same game, not different ones, thus, is there still any true reason left to rename the article? The best we can do in my opinion is to rename it "Red, Green AND BLUE Beta" and split the exclusive Yellow beta content (is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?) into a separate article to keep up with the other generations' beta articles. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 17:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::@"is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?". Not much, the unused battle system using the dialogue string "Hurry, get away" when you attempt to attack and an unused soundtrack (only existing in the Pikachu's Beach/ bonus trainer soundbank) --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 19:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, our Red and Blue's game engine is derived from the [[Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|Japanese Blue version]] which was notably different than that of the original Red and Green. Though, calling this article "Pokémon Red and Green beta" is potentially misguiding because it implies that all of the unused elements of Red/Blue/Yellow were originally planned to be included in the original Red/Green to begin with, which would be speculation if anything because of the (exclusive) unused content within Pokémon Yellow; it doesn't exist in the newer Pokémon Red/Blue engine, neither the original Pokémon Red/Green. I don't see a problem with making a separate article for Pokémon Yellow, we have "Pokémon Crystal Beta" which would be of about the same size of a "Pokémon Yellow Beta" (though I prefer we just use something in the title like 'unused content' instead of beta, we have concept art which is more likely to be alpha/pre-alpha content) . --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I acknowledged the fact that our Red and Blue were made from Blue's engine, but IN CONTENT, they are still Red and Green (I detailedly explained why I consider it that way), plus there are no Japanese Blue nor English Red and Blue exclusive TRUE beta elements (aside from text translations in the case of the English RB), so my point still stands, and thus, I keep my suggestion: in my opinion, the best is to rename the article, but not "Gen I beta", but rather into "Red, Green and Blue beta" (since Red and Blue are nothing but debugged versions of Red and Green, not independent games) and split the Yellow elements into a separate article like those of Crystal, Emerald and Platinum.[[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 05:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, that sounds like a good idea. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 08:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
There ''are'' some parts of the article that refer to international Red/Blue but not Japanese Red/Green, like the "The Misty wants to fight" section. [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[Special:Contributions/Flicky|1991]] 13:53, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Actually yes that's right, "The" included prior to a trainer class didn't have an equivalent transliteration "ザ" in the original Red and Green, though Veggietable acknowledges this. Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable? Some of the temporary placeholder names used in American promotions like "Ness" for Lapras weren't direct transliterations of the Japanese names. Also, thought someone would be interested, transliterated (though it might not be actually?) text in only the localized Red/Blue outside of Japan refers to an old in-game trade exclusive to Japanese Blue, where you receive a {{p|Beedrill}} but it's now referred to as "CHIKUCHIKU". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I already DID aknowledged that the "The BROCK" addition in the international versions as American-original, but that comes because of the different sentence structures in Japanese and English, where a pronoun isn't needed in Japanese but is in English, so, while still "original" material in the beta English releases, it derives from translation issues, and thus, my original point (which is that all the "changes" made in the international releases where made due to localization ) still stands and remains congruent. As I told a couple of times before, conseidering them separate games just for minor additions is not quite congruent, and going by this logic, Japanese and International versions of HGSS must be considered different games too (and as such, get separate articles or the article be renamed into "Generation II remakes") just because one has a Game Corner and the other has Voltorb Flip -it just don't make sense. Had Red and Blue kept Blue's CONTENT features (version exclusives, in-game trades, removal of Missingno., et al) or introduced brand-new features like Yellow did, then yes, I'd say they are differeht games and that the article must be splitted into "RG beta" and "RB beta" or me renamed "Gen I Beta", but it wasn't the case. That's why to avoid confusion I suggested (and I feel honored that my suggetsion was put on the main article) instead to rename it "Red, Green and Blue beta", thus acknowledging the identity of Blue and Red and Blue, if not as separate games, at least as different revisions of the game deserving mention in the article's title. If you still want the distintion to be made, the article could have a "localization beta" sub-section and put there the Pokémon names and the "The Brock" thing. To make it shorter, adressing your specific question of "Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable?", my answer is: "I'm not saying that is not notable, just that it's not enough notable to be considered A DIFFERENT GAME", after all, international releases OF EVERYTHING are changed, because according to context, we can't always get direct translation/transilteration -we instead get adaptations, and such, names or sentences might be added or removed. If we considered everything that is not A DIRECT TRANSLATION to be a different entity dererving its own article, then half of the Pokémon must be considered different from their Japanese counterparts (it's like saying "Lizardon is already an English word so it didn't need anything more than a romaji transilteration, but instead we got Charizard; since they have different names, then it's original content and thus they must be different Pokémon"). Its the same: International Green got its named changed into Blue and got some changes ("The BROCK") due to localization, but nothing more. The in-game trade refering to a Blue event I think was a slip from the localization team caused by the use of Blue's engine, but the actual trade was still that of Red and Green, that's why I still consider them Red and Green. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 23:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I actually like your idea, Veggie. Let's rename this to Pokémon Red, Green, and Blue beta and create Pokémon Yellow beta. And speaking of the latter, would it be something like [[User:Pokemon_lover/Pokémon_Yellow_beta|this]]? [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 23:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm not against your idea Veggie. [Actually it was from an in-game Japanese Blue exclusive trade (Butterfree for Beedrill) where "CHIKUCHIKU" is the Beedrill according to [[Meowth346]] and the 39 MISSINGNO. were never removed in Japanese Blue].

::::I'm not trying to make any distinctions of unused content between Red/Green/Blue and the Japanese Blue such that they require different pages, I was just trying to outline what the differences were before jumping to any conclusions. I agree with your idea, that having a separate page for Japanese Blue would be similar to "making separate pages for Pokémon Kin and Gin", (there are a few dialogue strings which were never translated for Gold and Silver relating to a debugging interface in Japanese Kin and Gin but it doesn't matter). I was only suggesting that we use the format "Prototype and scrapped features of (XXX)" because concept art does not class as beta, it is alpha/pre-alpha content. I agree that we could have two separate articles about Red/Green/Blue, Yellow and implement any 'localization beta' content into their own sections. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 12:54, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

:::::OK, Then I'm completely fine with it. So, who decides if the rename is done? By the way, Pokémon lover's draft for Yellow's article is very good to be honest. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 16:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

==Should I include this?==
A tentative 'debug menu' can be accessed via the "Game Freak" screen. Only in Pokémon Yellow if the title screen is loaded with an invalid sound font a text box will appear below the "Game Freak" screen and the equivalent of the 'item obtained' sound will play, although the sound is only noticeable if the sound-font is quickly changed back to its usual default. The menu can be scrolled through, although the text is illegible and the only remaining option left for the player is to exit the menu. <ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AEI-ijQMBg Youtube video]</ref> <references/>--[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 18:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Red and Green beta

2010-11-14T16:03:38Z

Veggietable: /* Title change */

== Concept art ==

Where can i get a bigger picture of it?--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 03:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the picture, but I know that we don't use citations, so I'm totally erasing that citation.--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 21:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:We do know the female character was planned, we just need a picture. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:07, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

== Leaf ==

Should someone put this picture in article?: [http://www.sailorteam.com/fakecard/starters/rgb.jpg].. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:Not necessarily Leaf, as it's an old picture. We have it elsewhere, though. I'm not sure where exactly, but I've seen it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Was it true? ==

There was supposed to be like seven versions of the games but gamefreak could not afford it.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
:Where in the world have you read or listened to that? [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 21:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
::I read it a long time ago in some magazine talking about some games that were being developed in japan.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 19:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I think I’ve read that too... perhaps an interview with Satoshi Tajiri or Shigeru Miyamoto? I think maybe it wasn’t about finance so much as taking advice from a senior game designer about simplifying in order to get it done( like how ''Zelda''’s ''Triforce'' trilogy became the ''Oracle'' duo). Still, I wouldn’t add it unless someone finds the interview for reference. --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 21:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you think we should try to get this confirmed? Or would it not matter--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

== Beta names of Pokémon ==

Is it worth mentioning reasons why the names were changed? For example, the fact that it would impossible to trademark words like "Lucky" and "dodo"? --[[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Umm...some of the names there are the same... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 18:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not the issue; the issue is that they were changed for a second time and possible reasons behind it. :) [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

== The other concept art? ==

Does [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11718&d=1247599349 the] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11717&d=1247599296 other] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11719&d=1247599367 concept art] count? The "Capsule Monsters" ones. Should they be mentioned? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}
:If better quality ones can be found, [[Capsule Monsters|this article]] might want them. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hm..Sorry,I don't know of any better quality ones. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Incorrect Translation ==

While no beta Pokémon remains in the coding, it is interesting to note that the official website for Super Smash Bros. lists a character from the Pokémon franchise called ポケモンのだれか, whose name translates to "Who of Pokémon?". It is possible that the name was used as a "cover-up" to not reveal the name of an unused Pokémon. However, it can also mean that it just sends out a random Pokémon, as there are other obscure characters in the list, such as James Bond and Ash Ketchum. 
 ---
... It says "Somebody from Pokemon". ("Some Pokemon" would probably be a smoother translation.)
People who barely speak japanese (if at all) should not be jumping to conclusions. Contextually, the meaning is pretty clear.

== http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult2.html ==

Now that I look at this website further, it's just an opinion poll. "Most desired characters if they made a sequel to Smash Bros" (Hence characters like Ash Ketchum and James Bond [goldeneye was popular at the time] appearing). So really it's completely irrelevant. Lugia was probably on the list because he already existed in japan.
:Neat find, umm lets see what others think.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm, there's nothing else to discuss about it.O_o I checked the dates and this poll was from shortly before the Lugia movie opened in theatres in Japan. And I speak Japanese, so I know what the poll says.

== Text when using Cut outside of battle ==

I very faintly recall when seeing an official guide, there was a screenshot of a Pokémon using Cut outside of battle. However, I think the text in the screenshot said something like "[Pokémon] cut down the bush!" (unfortunately, my memory is faint here, so I'm not 100% sure about this). However, the final version says "[Pokémon] hacked away with Cut!" Does anybody know for a fact whether this is true or not? [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 03:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:That may very well be true, stuff like that does appear in the guides. I know the instruction manual has a bunch of beta screenshots in it (Poké Mart says "Shop", "THE BROCK wants to fight") [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::The "Shop" part is only in the Japanese version. I think. I might need to check.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I've got JP Red and they all say "Shop", which as we all know was changed to "Mart" for w/e reason. Buuuut in the English R/B manuals the screenshots still say "Shop" ;D [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::::That's interesting, and I know they called a Great Ball a Super Ball in one picture.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think the English version is actually the only one that says "Mart." Once I played a Spanish version, and it said... "Shop" (which doesn't make sense, as the proper word is "tienda"). I think I saw other foreign language versions with "Shop" too. [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 12:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Ookido-sensei ==

We have a section about Oak having a Pokemon team programmed into the game, but it doesn't mention that this character was known as Ookido-sensei (オーキドせんせい, rather than Ookido-hakase オーキドはかせ) in the Japanese version. (Ref: [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AD%E3%83%89%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93%E3%81%9B%E3%81%84 Japanese wiki], note Youtube link.) Is this worth mentioning? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 23:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:What do the two names mean in English? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 09:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
::"Hakase" is "professor/doctor/etc." and "sensei" is "teacher/master/etc."... roughly. "Sensei" can mean many things in different contexts. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Regarding the Badges beta ==

''When used outside of battle, they have another strange effect - after the throwing animation, the music changes to a strange, unused tune not heard anywhere else.''

Anyone have a YouTube or the like link to said "strange unused tune"? Does anybody have it? [[User:Fairy Red|Fairy Red]] 07:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== "The BROCK" wants to Fight. Would adding a Pictures help? ==

I have the English/Dutch Manual that is sold in Europe. There is "The BROCK wants to Fight" Image in the Manual. Should I scan it? Also the Route 1 Page has TWO types of sign posts, for the same sign. Shop is shown on the map of Virddian, Want that too? [[User:Big Nutter|Big Nutter]] 14:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah. Make sure it's a good quality scan though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Something I noticed when checking locations by index number in Generation I ==

Identifiers/Index Numbers 00 (0) to 0A (10) are the main towns and cities such as Pallet Town, Pewter City, Viridian City etc. 0C (12) is the first route i.e. Route 1. Noticing this I developed a Gameshark code 010B5ED3 for use on Pokémon Red/Blue to take the player to location #11 (0B). It crashes the game if you activate the code when entering through a door but if you force the game to display it on the Town Map it is directly north of the Pokémon League, do you think this is probably just a pure coincidence? There is no defined data for its name, so the game refers to it as "PALLET TOWN". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== Title change ==

Should we change the title of the article from "Pokémon Red and Green beta" to "Generation I beta" or something to that effect? It's because from the info we have in the article, we are mentioning aspects of the betas of all the Generation I games, not just of Red and Green. Thus, the current title is unfitting when related to the contents. [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 17:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'd usually say we should leave it at Red & Green because the finished R&G is kind of the beta for Blue/RB/Yellow... ''but'' there is a bunch of information in this article that only applies to Blue/international RB/Yellow, and there's also plenty that applies to all Generation I versions. In short, I think a move would be appropriate. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 14:31, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
::"''The'' beta?" In general the original assumption of there actually being a single 'beta version' of a Pokémon game with each and every feature known of that game is quite speculative. There is no solid proof but game developers usually do not simply produce two versions of the game (e.g. pre-release and release). Instead, they usually save many revisions (versions) of the game, for example lots of prototype versions of many of the classic Sonic games have been leaked, even those for the same game. There's also the distinction between Alpha and Beta; Alpha denotes when testing techniques are very brief and the product is not feature complete (note planned features are not always the only final features). Borderline between Alpha and Beta is probably what you mean, although many features are often added (or removed) in later Beta stages too, maybe due to technical limitations or a good 'brain-wave'.

::I'd prefer that we just move every page to "Prototype and scrapped features of (Game Series)". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: I say it's best as it is. Why?
First, we have a format. And that format is to have articles for each individual game, not for whole generations. If we change this into "Generation I Beta", then we'd have to merge GS and Crystal's Beta articles into one single article with the name "Generation II Beta", and even worse, all the Gen III and IV games, to keep consistency, and we know that would not be the best move. It's better to leave it as it is for the sake of consistency.
Second, Red and Blue is Red and Green with different names and translated text, not different games. I don't eat the universal assumption that they are different games, since they retain Red and Green's version exclusive Pokémon and even keep glitches that were not present anymore in Blue but were in Red and Green (Missingno.); the only thing that was carried over from Blue was its graphics and the evolving Raichu text in Cinnabar, but otherwise, their still Red and Green with Blue's updated graphics. Calling them different games just because of minor changes would be like considering Kin and Gin different games from Gold and Silver because of the Teddiursa and Phanpy lines as vesion exclusives being switched from the Japanese versions -it just don't make sense.
Third. The "exclusive English Red and Blue beta content" consists in translated text only ("The BROCK" and different Pokémon names), not actual elements of their own, so it doesn't really count as beta for different/new games, but rather as beta text for a LOCALIZED VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL GAMES.
With all of this in mind, it can be well concluded that Japanese Red and Green (or Aka and Midori if you prefer) and International Red and Blue are the same game, not different ones, thus, is there still any true reason left to rename the article? The best we can do in my opinion is to rename it "Red, Green AND BLUE Beta" and split the exclusive Yellow beta content (is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?) into a separate article to keep up with the other generations' beta articles. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 17:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::@"is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?". Not much, the unused battle system using the dialogue string "Hurry, get away" when you attempt to attack and an unused soundtrack (only existing in the Pikachu's Beach/ bonus trainer soundbank) --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 19:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, our Red and Blue's game engine is derived from the [[Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|Japanese Blue version]] which was notably different than that of the original Red and Green. Though, calling this article "Pokémon Red and Green beta" is potentially misguiding because it implies that all of the unused elements of Red/Blue/Yellow were originally planned to be included in the original Red/Green to begin with, which would be speculation if anything because of the (exclusive) unused content within Pokémon Yellow; it doesn't exist in the newer Pokémon Red/Blue engine, neither the original Pokémon Red/Green. I don't see a problem with making a separate article for Pokémon Yellow, we have "Pokémon Crystal Beta" which would be of about the same size of a "Pokémon Yellow Beta" (though I prefer we just use something in the title like 'unused content' instead of beta, we have concept art which is more likely to be alpha/pre-alpha content) . --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I acknowledged the fact that our Red and Blue were made from Blue's engine, but IN CONTENT, they are still Red and Green (I detailedly explained why I consider it that way), plus there are no Japanese Blue nor English Red and Blue exclusive TRUE beta elements (aside from text translations in the case of the English RB), so my point still stands, and thus, I keep my suggestion: in my opinion, the best is to rename the article, but not "Gen I beta", but rather into "Red, Green and Blue beta" (since Red and Blue are nothing but debugged versions of Red and Green, not independent games) and split the Yellow elements into a separate article like those of Crystal, Emerald and Platinum.[[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 05:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, that sounds like a good idea. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 08:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
There ''are'' some parts of the article that refer to international Red/Blue but not Japanese Red/Green, like the "The Misty wants to fight" section. [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[Special:Contributions/Flicky|1991]] 13:53, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Actually yes that's right, "The" included prior to a trainer class didn't have an equivalent transliteration "ザ" in the original Red and Green, though Veggietable acknowledges this. Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable? Some of the temporary placeholder names used in American promotions like "Ness" for Lapras weren't direct transliterations of the Japanese names. Also, thought someone would be interested, transliterated (though it might not be actually?) text in only the localized Red/Blue outside of Japan refers to an old in-game trade exclusive to Japanese Blue, where you receive a {{p|Beedrill}} but it's now referred to as "CHIKUCHIKU". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I already DID aknowledged that the "The BROCK" addition in the international versions as American-original, but that comes because of the different sentence structures in Japanese and English, where a pronoun isn't needed in Japanese but is in English, so, while still "original" material in the beta English releases, it derives from translation issues, and thus, my original point (which is that all the "changes" made in the international releases where made due to localization ) still stands and remains congruent. As I told a couple of times before, conseidering them separate games just for minor additions is not quite congruent, and going by this logic, Japanese and International versions of HGSS must be considered different games too (and as such, get separate articles or the article be renamed into "Generation II remakes") just because one has a Game Corner and the other has Voltorb Flip -it just don't make sense. Had Red and Blue kept Blue's CONTENT features (version exclusives, in-game trades, removal of Missingno., et al) or introduced brand-new features like Yellow did, then yes, I'd say they are differeht games and that the article must be splitted into "RG beta" and "RB beta" or me renamed "Gen I Beta", but it wasn't the case. That's why to avoid confusion I suggested (and I feel honored that my suggetsion was put on the main article) instead to rename it "Red, Green and Blue beta", thus acknowledging the identity of Blue and Red and Blue, if not as separate games, at least as different revisions of the game deserving mention in the article's title. If you still want the distintion to be made, the article could have a "localization beta" sub-section and put there the Pokémon names and the "The Brock" thing. To make it shorter, adressing your specific question of "Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable?", my answer is: "I'm not saying that is not notable, just that it's not enough notable to be considered A DIFFERENT GAME", after all, international releases OF EVERYTHING are changed, because according to context, we can't always get direct translation/transilteration -we instead get adaptations, and such, names or sentences might be added or removed. If we considered everything that is not A DIRECT TRANSLATION to be a different entity dererving its own article, then half of the Pokémon must be considered different from their Japanese counterparts (it's like saying "Lizardon is already an English word so it didn't need anything more than a romaji transilteration, but instead we got Charizard; since they have different names, then it's original content and thus they must be different Pokémon"). Its the same: International Green got its named changed into Blue and got some changes ("The BROCK") due to localization, but nothing more. The in-game trade refering to a Blue event I think was a slip from the localization team caused by the use of Blue's engine, but the actual trade was still that of Red and Green, that's why I still consider them Red and Green. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 23:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I actually like your idea, Veggie. Let's rename this to Pokémon Red, Green, and Blue beta and create Pokémon Yellow beta. And speaking of the latter, would it be something like [[User:Pokemon_lover/Pokémon_Yellow_beta|this]]? [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 23:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm not against your idea Veggie. [Actually it was from an in-game Japanese Blue exclusive trade (Butterfree for Beedrill) where "CHIKUCHIKU" is the Beedrill according to [[Meowth346]] and the 39 MISSINGNO. were never removed in Japanese Blue].

::::I'm not trying to make any distinctions of unused content between Red/Green/Blue and the Japanese Blue such that they require different pages, I was just trying to outline what the differences were before jumping to any conclusions. I agree with your idea, that having a separate page for Japanese Blue would be similar to "making separate pages for Pokémon Kin and Gin", (there are a few dialogue strings which were never translated for Gold and Silver relating to a debugging interface in Japanese Kin and Gin but it doesn't matter). I was only suggesting that we use the format "Prototype and scrapped features of (XXX)" because concept art does not class as beta, it is alpha/pre-alpha content. I agree that we could have two separate articles about Red/Green/Blue, Yellow and implement any 'localization beta' content into their own sections. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 12:54, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

:::::OK, Then I'm completely fine with it. So, who decides if the rename is done?

==Should I include this?==
A tentative 'debug menu' can be accessed via the "Game Freak" screen. Only in Pokémon Yellow if the title screen is loaded with an invalid sound font a text box will appear below the "Game Freak" screen and the equivalent of the 'item obtained' sound will play, although the sound is only noticeable if the sound-font is quickly changed back to its usual default. The menu can be scrolled through, although the text is illegible and the only remaining option left for the player is to exit the menu. <ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AEI-ijQMBg Youtube video]</ref> <references/>--[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 18:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Red and Green beta

2010-11-11T23:43:46Z

Veggietable: /* Title change */

== Concept art ==

Where can i get a bigger picture of it?--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 03:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the picture, but I know that we don't use citations, so I'm totally erasing that citation.--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 21:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:We do know the female character was planned, we just need a picture. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:07, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

== Leaf ==

Should someone put this picture in article?: [http://www.sailorteam.com/fakecard/starters/rgb.jpg].. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:Not necessarily Leaf, as it's an old picture. We have it elsewhere, though. I'm not sure where exactly, but I've seen it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Was it true? ==

There was supposed to be like seven versions of the games but gamefreak could not afford it.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
:Where in the world have you read or listened to that? [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 21:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
::I read it a long time ago in some magazine talking about some games that were being developed in japan.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 19:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I think I’ve read that too... perhaps an interview with Satoshi Tajiri or Shigeru Miyamoto? I think maybe it wasn’t about finance so much as taking advice from a senior game designer about simplifying in order to get it done( like how ''Zelda''’s ''Triforce'' trilogy became the ''Oracle'' duo). Still, I wouldn’t add it unless someone finds the interview for reference. --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 21:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you think we should try to get this confirmed? Or would it not matter--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

== Beta names of Pokémon ==

Is it worth mentioning reasons why the names were changed? For example, the fact that it would impossible to trademark words like "Lucky" and "dodo"? --[[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Umm...some of the names there are the same... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 18:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not the issue; the issue is that they were changed for a second time and possible reasons behind it. :) [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

== The other concept art? ==

Does [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11718&d=1247599349 the] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11717&d=1247599296 other] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11719&d=1247599367 concept art] count? The "Capsule Monsters" ones. Should they be mentioned? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}
:If better quality ones can be found, [[Capsule Monsters|this article]] might want them. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hm..Sorry,I don't know of any better quality ones. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Incorrect Translation ==

While no beta Pokémon remains in the coding, it is interesting to note that the official website for Super Smash Bros. lists a character from the Pokémon franchise called ポケモンのだれか, whose name translates to "Who of Pokémon?". It is possible that the name was used as a "cover-up" to not reveal the name of an unused Pokémon. However, it can also mean that it just sends out a random Pokémon, as there are other obscure characters in the list, such as James Bond and Ash Ketchum. 
 ---
... It says "Somebody from Pokemon". ("Some Pokemon" would probably be a smoother translation.)
People who barely speak japanese (if at all) should not be jumping to conclusions. Contextually, the meaning is pretty clear.

== http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult2.html ==

Now that I look at this website further, it's just an opinion poll. "Most desired characters if they made a sequel to Smash Bros" (Hence characters like Ash Ketchum and James Bond [goldeneye was popular at the time] appearing). So really it's completely irrelevant. Lugia was probably on the list because he already existed in japan.
:Neat find, umm lets see what others think.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm, there's nothing else to discuss about it.O_o I checked the dates and this poll was from shortly before the Lugia movie opened in theatres in Japan. And I speak Japanese, so I know what the poll says.

== Text when using Cut outside of battle ==

I very faintly recall when seeing an official guide, there was a screenshot of a Pokémon using Cut outside of battle. However, I think the text in the screenshot said something like "[Pokémon] cut down the bush!" (unfortunately, my memory is faint here, so I'm not 100% sure about this). However, the final version says "[Pokémon] hacked away with Cut!" Does anybody know for a fact whether this is true or not? [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 03:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:That may very well be true, stuff like that does appear in the guides. I know the instruction manual has a bunch of beta screenshots in it (Poké Mart says "Shop", "THE BROCK wants to fight") [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::The "Shop" part is only in the Japanese version. I think. I might need to check.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I've got JP Red and they all say "Shop", which as we all know was changed to "Mart" for w/e reason. Buuuut in the English R/B manuals the screenshots still say "Shop" ;D [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::::That's interesting, and I know they called a Great Ball a Super Ball in one picture.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think the English version is actually the only one that says "Mart." Once I played a Spanish version, and it said... "Shop" (which doesn't make sense, as the proper word is "tienda"). I think I saw other foreign language versions with "Shop" too. [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 12:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Ookido-sensei ==

We have a section about Oak having a Pokemon team programmed into the game, but it doesn't mention that this character was known as Ookido-sensei (オーキドせんせい, rather than Ookido-hakase オーキドはかせ) in the Japanese version. (Ref: [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AD%E3%83%89%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93%E3%81%9B%E3%81%84 Japanese wiki], note Youtube link.) Is this worth mentioning? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 23:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:What do the two names mean in English? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 09:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
::"Hakase" is "professor/doctor/etc." and "sensei" is "teacher/master/etc."... roughly. "Sensei" can mean many things in different contexts. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Regarding the Badges beta ==

''When used outside of battle, they have another strange effect - after the throwing animation, the music changes to a strange, unused tune not heard anywhere else.''

Anyone have a YouTube or the like link to said "strange unused tune"? Does anybody have it? [[User:Fairy Red|Fairy Red]] 07:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== "The BROCK" wants to Fight. Would adding a Pictures help? ==

I have the English/Dutch Manual that is sold in Europe. There is "The BROCK wants to Fight" Image in the Manual. Should I scan it? Also the Route 1 Page has TWO types of sign posts, for the same sign. Shop is shown on the map of Virddian, Want that too? [[User:Big Nutter|Big Nutter]] 14:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah. Make sure it's a good quality scan though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Something I noticed when checking locations by index number in Generation I ==

Identifiers/Index Numbers 00 (0) to 0A (10) are the main towns and cities such as Pallet Town, Pewter City, Viridian City etc. 0C (12) is the first route i.e. Route 1. Noticing this I developed a Gameshark code 010B5ED3 for use on Pokémon Red/Blue to take the player to location #11 (0B). It crashes the game if you activate the code when entering through a door but if you force the game to display it on the Town Map it is directly north of the Pokémon League, do you think this is probably just a pure coincidence? There is no defined data for its name, so the game refers to it as "PALLET TOWN". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== Title change ==

Should we change the title of the article from "Pokémon Red and Green beta" to "Generation I beta" or something to that effect? It's because from the info we have in the article, we are mentioning aspects of the betas of all the Generation I games, not just of Red and Green. Thus, the current title is unfitting when related to the contents. [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 17:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'd usually say we should leave it at Red & Green because the finished R&G is kind of the beta for Blue/RB/Yellow... ''but'' there is a bunch of information in this article that only applies to Blue/international RB/Yellow, and there's also plenty that applies to all Generation I versions. In short, I think a move would be appropriate. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 14:31, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
::"''The'' beta?" In general the original assumption of there actually being a single 'beta version' of a Pokémon game with each and every feature known of that game is quite speculative. There is no solid proof but game developers usually do not simply produce two versions of the game (e.g. pre-release and release). Instead, they usually save many revisions (versions) of the game, for example lots of prototype versions of many of the classic Sonic games have been leaked, even those for the same game. There's also the distinction between Alpha and Beta; Alpha denotes when testing techniques are very brief and the product is not feature complete (note planned features are not always the only final features). Borderline between Alpha and Beta is probably what you mean, although many features are often added (or removed) in later Beta stages too, maybe due to technical limitations or a good 'brain-wave'.

::I'd prefer that we just move every page to "Prototype and scrapped features of (Game Series)". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: I say it's best as it is. Why?
First, we have a format. And that format is to have articles for each individual game, not for whole generations. If we change this into "Generation I Beta", then we'd have to merge GS and Crystal's Beta articles into one single article with the name "Generation II Beta", and even worse, all the Gen III and IV games, to keep consistency, and we know that would not be the best move. It's better to leave it as it is for the sake of consistency.
Second, Red and Blue is Red and Green with different names and translated text, not different games. I don't eat the universal assumption that they are different games, since they retain Red and Green's version exclusive Pokémon and even keep glitches that were not present anymore in Blue but were in Red and Green (Missingno.); the only thing that was carried over from Blue was its graphics and the evolving Raichu text in Cinnabar, but otherwise, their still Red and Green with Blue's updated graphics. Calling them different games just because of minor changes would be like considering Kin and Gin different games from Gold and Silver because of the Teddiursa and Phanpy lines as vesion exclusives being switched from the Japanese versions -it just don't make sense.
Third. The "exclusive English Red and Blue beta content" consists in translated text only ("The BROCK" and different Pokémon names), not actual elements of their own, so it doesn't really count as beta for different/new games, but rather as beta text for a LOCALIZED VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL GAMES.
With all of this in mind, it can be well concluded that Japanese Red and Green (or Aka and Midori if you prefer) and International Red and Blue are the same game, not different ones, thus, is there still any true reason left to rename the article? The best we can do in my opinion is to rename it "Red, Green AND BLUE Beta" and split the exclusive Yellow beta content (is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?) into a separate article to keep up with the other generations' beta articles. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 17:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::@"is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?". Not much, the unused battle system using the dialogue string "Hurry, get away" when you attempt to attack and an unused soundtrack (only existing in the Pikachu's Beach/ bonus trainer soundbank) --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 19:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, our Red and Blue's game engine is derived from the [[Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|Japanese Blue version]] which was notably different than that of the original Red and Green. Though, calling this article "Pokémon Red and Green beta" is potentially misguiding because it implies that all of the unused elements of Red/Blue/Yellow were originally planned to be included in the original Red/Green to begin with, which would be speculation if anything because of the (exclusive) unused content within Pokémon Yellow; it doesn't exist in the newer Pokémon Red/Blue engine, neither the original Pokémon Red/Green. I don't see a problem with making a separate article for Pokémon Yellow, we have "Pokémon Crystal Beta" which would be of about the same size of a "Pokémon Yellow Beta" (though I prefer we just use something in the title like 'unused content' instead of beta, we have concept art which is more likely to be alpha/pre-alpha content) . --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I acknowledged the fact that our Red and Blue were made from Blue's engine, but IN CONTENT, they are still Red and Green (I detailedly explained why I consider it that way), plus there are no Japanese Blue nor English Red and Blue exclusive TRUE beta elements (aside from text translations in the case of the English RB), so my point still stands, and thus, I keep my suggestion: in my opinion, the best is to rename the article, but not "Gen I beta", but rather into "Red, Green and Blue beta" (since Red and Blue are nothing but debugged versions of Red and Green, not independent games) and split the Yellow elements into a separate article like those of Crystal, Emerald and Platinum.[[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 05:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, that sounds like a good idea. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 08:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
There ''are'' some parts of the article that refer to international Red/Blue but not Japanese Red/Green, like the "The Misty wants to fight" section. [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[Special:Contributions/Flicky|1991]] 13:53, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Actually yes that's right, "The" included prior to a trainer class didn't have an equivalent transliteration "ザ" in the original Red and Green, though Veggietable acknowledges this. Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable? Some of the temporary placeholder names used in American promotions like "Ness" for Lapras weren't direct transliterations of the Japanese names. Also, thought someone would be interested, transliterated (though it might not be actually?) text in only the localized Red/Blue outside of Japan refers to an old in-game trade exclusive to Japanese Blue, where you receive a {{p|Beedrill}} but it's now referred to as "CHIKUCHIKU". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I already DID aknowledged that the "The BROCK" addition in the international versions as American-original, but that comes because of the different sentence structures in Japanese and English, where a pronoun isn't needed in Japanese but is in English, so, while still "original" material in the beta English releases, it derives from translation issues, and thus, my original point (which is that all the "changes" made in the international releases where made due to localization ) still stands and remains congruent. As I told a couple of times before, conseidering them separate games just for minor additions is not quite congruent, and going by this logic, Japanese and International versions of HGSS must be considered different games too (and as such, get separate articles or the article be renamed into "Generation II remakes") just because one has a Game Corner and the other has Voltorb Flip -it just don't make sense. Had Red and Blue kept Blue's CONTENT features (version exclusives, in-game trades, removal of Missingno., et al) or introduced brand-new features like Yellow did, then yes, I'd say they are differeht games and that the article must be splitted into "RG beta" and "RB beta" or me renamed "Gen I Beta", but it wasn't the case. That's why to avoid confusion I suggested (and I feel honored that my suggetsion was put on the main article) instead to rename it "Red, Green and Blue beta", thus acknowledging the identity of Blue and Red and Blue, if not as separate games, at least as different revisions of the game deserving mention in the article's title. If you still want the distintion to be made, the article could have a "localization beta" sub-section and put there the Pokémon names and the "The Brock" thing. To make it shorter, adressing your specific question of "Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable?", my answer is: "I'm not saying that is not notable, just that it's not enough notable to be considered A DIFFERENT GAME", after all, international releases OF EVERYTHING are changed, because according to context, we can't always get direct translation/transilteration -we instead get adaptations, and such, names or sentences might be added or removed. If we considered everything that is not A DIRECT TRANSLATION to be a different entity dererving its own article, then half of the Pokémon must be considered different from their Japanese counterparts (it's like saying "Lizardon is already an English word so it didn't need anything more than a romaji transilteration, but instead we got Charizard; since they have different names, then it's original content and thus they must be different Pokémon"). Its the same: International Green got its named changed into Blue and got some changes ("The BROCK") due to localization, but nothing more. The in-game trade refering to a Blue event I think was a slip from the localization team caused by the use of Blue's engine, but the actual trade was still that of Red and Green, that's why I still consider them Red and Green. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 23:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

==Should I include this?==
A tentative 'debug menu' can be accessed via the "Game Freak" screen. Only in Pokémon Yellow if the title screen is loaded with an invalid sound font a text box will appear below the "Game Freak" screen and the equivalent of the 'item obtained' sound will play, although the sound is only noticeable if the sound-font is quickly changed back to its usual default. The menu can be scrolled through, although the text is illegible and the only remaining option left for the player is to exit the menu. <ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AEI-ijQMBg Youtube video]</ref> <references/>--[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 18:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Red and Green beta

2010-11-11T23:40:16Z

Veggietable: /* Title change */

== Concept art ==

Where can i get a bigger picture of it?--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 03:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the picture, but I know that we don't use citations, so I'm totally erasing that citation.--[[User:Dragonbeastx|DRAGON]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|BEAST]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|X]] 21:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:We do know the female character was planned, we just need a picture. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:07, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

== Leaf ==

Should someone put this picture in article?: [http://www.sailorteam.com/fakecard/starters/rgb.jpg].. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
:Not necessarily Leaf, as it's an old picture. We have it elsewhere, though. I'm not sure where exactly, but I've seen it. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== Was it true? ==

There was supposed to be like seven versions of the games but gamefreak could not afford it.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
:Where in the world have you read or listened to that? [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 21:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
::I read it a long time ago in some magazine talking about some games that were being developed in japan.--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 19:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
:::I think I’ve read that too... perhaps an interview with Satoshi Tajiri or Shigeru Miyamoto? I think maybe it wasn’t about finance so much as taking advice from a senior game designer about simplifying in order to get it done( like how ''Zelda''’s ''Triforce'' trilogy became the ''Oracle'' duo). Still, I wouldn’t add it unless someone finds the interview for reference. --[[User:LaprasBoi|LaprasBoi]] 21:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Do you think we should try to get this confirmed? Or would it not matter--[[User:Pokéboy93|Pokéboy93]] 01:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

== Beta names of Pokémon ==

Is it worth mentioning reasons why the names were changed? For example, the fact that it would impossible to trademark words like "Lucky" and "dodo"? --[[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Umm...some of the names there are the same... [[User:Ht14|'''''ht''''']][[User talk:Ht14|''14'']] 18:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not the issue; the issue is that they were changed for a second time and possible reasons behind it. :) [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

== The other concept art? ==

Does [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11718&d=1247599349 the] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11717&d=1247599296 other] [http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=11719&d=1247599367 concept art] count? The "Capsule Monsters" ones. Should they be mentioned? {{unsigned|Lovely Rose}}
:If better quality ones can be found, [[Capsule Monsters|this article]] might want them. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 23:25, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
::Hm..Sorry,I don't know of any better quality ones. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

== Incorrect Translation ==

While no beta Pokémon remains in the coding, it is interesting to note that the official website for Super Smash Bros. lists a character from the Pokémon franchise called ポケモンのだれか, whose name translates to "Who of Pokémon?". It is possible that the name was used as a "cover-up" to not reveal the name of an unused Pokémon. However, it can also mean that it just sends out a random Pokémon, as there are other obscure characters in the list, such as James Bond and Ash Ketchum. 
 ---
... It says "Somebody from Pokemon". ("Some Pokemon" would probably be a smoother translation.)
People who barely speak japanese (if at all) should not be jumping to conclusions. Contextually, the meaning is pretty clear.

== http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostResult2.html ==

Now that I look at this website further, it's just an opinion poll. "Most desired characters if they made a sequel to Smash Bros" (Hence characters like Ash Ketchum and James Bond [goldeneye was popular at the time] appearing). So really it's completely irrelevant. Lugia was probably on the list because he already existed in japan.
:Neat find, umm lets see what others think.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm, there's nothing else to discuss about it.O_o I checked the dates and this poll was from shortly before the Lugia movie opened in theatres in Japan. And I speak Japanese, so I know what the poll says.

== Text when using Cut outside of battle ==

I very faintly recall when seeing an official guide, there was a screenshot of a Pokémon using Cut outside of battle. However, I think the text in the screenshot said something like "[Pokémon] cut down the bush!" (unfortunately, my memory is faint here, so I'm not 100% sure about this). However, the final version says "[Pokémon] hacked away with Cut!" Does anybody know for a fact whether this is true or not? [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 03:43, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:That may very well be true, stuff like that does appear in the guides. I know the instruction manual has a bunch of beta screenshots in it (Poké Mart says "Shop", "THE BROCK wants to fight") [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::The "Shop" part is only in the Japanese version. I think. I might need to check.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::I've got JP Red and they all say "Shop", which as we all know was changed to "Mart" for w/e reason. Buuuut in the English R/B manuals the screenshots still say "Shop" ;D [[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 04:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
::::That's interesting, and I know they called a Great Ball a Super Ball in one picture.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think the English version is actually the only one that says "Mart." Once I played a Spanish version, and it said... "Shop" (which doesn't make sense, as the proper word is "tienda"). I think I saw other foreign language versions with "Shop" too. [[User:Blaziken257|Blaziken257]] 12:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Ookido-sensei ==

We have a section about Oak having a Pokemon team programmed into the game, but it doesn't mention that this character was known as Ookido-sensei (オーキドせんせい, rather than Ookido-hakase オーキドはかせ) in the Japanese version. (Ref: [http://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AD%E3%83%89%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93%E3%81%9B%E3%81%84 Japanese wiki], note Youtube link.) Is this worth mentioning? [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 23:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
:What do the two names mean in English? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 09:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
::"Hakase" is "professor/doctor/etc." and "sensei" is "teacher/master/etc."... roughly. "Sensei" can mean many things in different contexts. :P [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 15:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

== Regarding the Badges beta ==

''When used outside of battle, they have another strange effect - after the throwing animation, the music changes to a strange, unused tune not heard anywhere else.''

Anyone have a YouTube or the like link to said "strange unused tune"? Does anybody have it? [[User:Fairy Red|Fairy Red]] 07:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

== "The BROCK" wants to Fight. Would adding a Pictures help? ==

I have the English/Dutch Manual that is sold in Europe. There is "The BROCK wants to Fight" Image in the Manual. Should I scan it? Also the Route 1 Page has TWO types of sign posts, for the same sign. Shop is shown on the map of Virddian, Want that too? [[User:Big Nutter|Big Nutter]] 14:45, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah. Make sure it's a good quality scan though. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 07:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

== Something I noticed when checking locations by index number in Generation I ==

Identifiers/Index Numbers 00 (0) to 0A (10) are the main towns and cities such as Pallet Town, Pewter City, Viridian City etc. 0C (12) is the first route i.e. Route 1. Noticing this I developed a Gameshark code 010B5ED3 for use on Pokémon Red/Blue to take the player to location #11 (0B). It crashes the game if you activate the code when entering through a door but if you force the game to display it on the Town Map it is directly north of the Pokémon League, do you think this is probably just a pure coincidence? There is no defined data for its name, so the game refers to it as "PALLET TOWN". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 13:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

== Title change ==

Should we change the title of the article from "Pokémon Red and Green beta" to "Generation I beta" or something to that effect? It's because from the info we have in the article, we are mentioning aspects of the betas of all the Generation I games, not just of Red and Green. Thus, the current title is unfitting when related to the contents. [[User:Pokemon lover|ポケモン]][[User talk:Pokemon lover|あいこうか]] 17:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
:I'd usually say we should leave it at Red & Green because the finished R&G is kind of the beta for Blue/RB/Yellow... ''but'' there is a bunch of information in this article that only applies to Blue/international RB/Yellow, and there's also plenty that applies to all Generation I versions. In short, I think a move would be appropriate. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|'''Zesty''']][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|'''Cactus''']] 14:31, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
::"''The'' beta?" In general the original assumption of there actually being a single 'beta version' of a Pokémon game with each and every feature known of that game is quite speculative. There is no solid proof but game developers usually do not simply produce two versions of the game (e.g. pre-release and release). Instead, they usually save many revisions (versions) of the game, for example lots of prototype versions of many of the classic Sonic games have been leaked, even those for the same game. There's also the distinction between Alpha and Beta; Alpha denotes when testing techniques are very brief and the product is not feature complete (note planned features are not always the only final features). Borderline between Alpha and Beta is probably what you mean, although many features are often added (or removed) in later Beta stages too, maybe due to technical limitations or a good 'brain-wave'.

::I'd prefer that we just move every page to "Prototype and scrapped features of (Game Series)". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

: I say it's best as it is. Why?
First, we have a format. And that format is to have articles for each individual game, not for whole generations. If we change this into "Generation I Beta", then we'd have to merge GS and Crystal's Beta articles into one single article with the name "Generation II Beta", and even worse, all the Gen III and IV games, to keep consistency, and we know that would not be the best move. It's better to leave it as it is for the sake of consistency.
Second, Red and Blue is Red and Green with different names and translated text, not different games. I don't eat the universal assumption that they are different games, since they retain Red and Green's version exclusive Pokémon and even keep glitches that were not present anymore in Blue but were in Red and Green (Missingno.); the only thing that was carried over from Blue was its graphics and the evolving Raichu text in Cinnabar, but otherwise, their still Red and Green with Blue's updated graphics. Calling them different games just because of minor changes would be like considering Kin and Gin different games from Gold and Silver because of the Teddiursa and Phanpy lines as vesion exclusives being switched from the Japanese versions -it just don't make sense.
Third. The "exclusive English Red and Blue beta content" consists in translated text only ("The BROCK" and different Pokémon names), not actual elements of their own, so it doesn't really count as beta for different/new games, but rather as beta text for a LOCALIZED VERSION OF THE ORIGINAL GAMES.
With all of this in mind, it can be well concluded that Japanese Red and Green (or Aka and Midori if you prefer) and International Red and Blue are the same game, not different ones, thus, is there still any true reason left to rename the article? The best we can do in my opinion is to rename it "Red, Green AND BLUE Beta" and split the exclusive Yellow beta content (is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?) into a separate article to keep up with the other generations' beta articles. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 17:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
::@"is there actually any beta content exclusive to Yellow in the article?". Not much, the unused battle system using the dialogue string "Hurry, get away" when you attempt to attack and an unused soundtrack (only existing in the Pikachu's Beach/ bonus trainer soundbank) --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 19:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Actually, our Red and Blue's game engine is derived from the [[Pokémon Blue Version (Japanese)|Japanese Blue version]] which was notably different than that of the original Red and Green. Though, calling this article "Pokémon Red and Green beta" is potentially misguiding because it implies that all of the unused elements of Red/Blue/Yellow were originally planned to be included in the original Red/Green to begin with, which would be speculation if anything because of the (exclusive) unused content within Pokémon Yellow; it doesn't exist in the newer Pokémon Red/Blue engine, neither the original Pokémon Red/Green. I don't see a problem with making a separate article for Pokémon Yellow, we have "Pokémon Crystal Beta" which would be of about the same size of a "Pokémon Yellow Beta" (though I prefer we just use something in the title like 'unused content' instead of beta, we have concept art which is more likely to be alpha/pre-alpha content) . --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 20:11, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I acknowledged the fact that our Red and Blue were made from Blue's engine, but IN CONTENT, they are still Red and Green (I detailedly explained why I consider it that way), plus there are no Japanese Blue nor English Red and Blue exclusive TRUE beta elements (aside from text translations in the case of the English RB), so my point still stands, and thus, I keep my suggestion: in my opinion, the best is to rename the article, but not "Gen I beta", but rather into "Red, Green and Blue beta" (since Red and Blue are nothing but debugged versions of Red and Green, not independent games) and split the Yellow elements into a separate article like those of Crystal, Emerald and Platinum.[[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 05:24, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Yes, that sounds like a good idea. --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 08:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
There ''are'' some parts of the article that refer to international Red/Blue but not Japanese Red/Green, like the "The Misty wants to fight" section. [[User:Flicky|Fli]][[User talk:Flicky|cky]][[Special:Contributions/Flicky|1991]] 13:53, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:Actually yes that's right, "The" included prior to a trainer class didn't have an equivalent transliteration "ザ" in the original Red and Green, though Veggietable acknowledges this. Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable? Some of the temporary placeholder names used in American promotions like "Ness" for Lapras weren't direct transliterations of the Japanese names. Also, thought someone would be interested, transliterated (though it might not be actually?) text in only the localized Red/Blue outside of Japan refers to an old in-game trade exclusive to Japanese Blue, where you receive a {{p|Beedrill}} but it's now referred to as "CHIKUCHIKU". --[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 17:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:: I already DID aknowledged that the "The BROCK" addition in the international versions as American-original, but that comes because of the different sentence structures in Japanese and English, where a pronoun isn't needed in Japanese but is in English, so, while still "original" material in the beta English releases, it derives from translation issues, and thus, my original point (which is that all the "changes" made in the international releases where made due to localization ) still stands and remains congruent. As I told a couple of times before, conseidering them separate games just for minor additions is not quite congruent, and going by this logic, Japanese and International versions of HGSS must be considered different games too (and as such, get separate articles or the article be renamed into "Generation II remakes") just because one has a Game Corner and the other has Voltorb Flip -it just don't make sense. Had Red and Blue kept Blue's CONTENT features (version exclusives, in-game trades, removal of Missingno., et al) or introduced brand-new features like Yellow did, then yes, I'd say they are differeht games and that the article must be splitted into "RG beta" and "RB beta" or me renamed "Gen I Beta", but it wasn't the case. That's why to avoid confusion I suggested (and I feel honored that my suggetsion was put on the main article) instead to rename it "Red, Green and Blue beta", thus acknowledging the identity of Blue and Red and Blue, if not as separate games, at least as different revisions of the game deserving mention in the article's title. If you still want the distintion to be made, the article could have a "localization beta" sub-section and put there the Pokémon names and the "The Brock" thing.
To make it shorter, adressing your specific question of "Are you also trying to suggest that added text (unused of course) (but not direct transliterations) aren't notable too Veggietable?", my answer is: "I'm not saying that is not notable, just that it's not enough notable to be considered A DIFFERENT GAME", after all, international releases OF EVERYTHING are changed, because according to context, we can't always get direct translation/transilteration -we instead get adaptations, and such, names or sentences might be added or removed. If we considered everything that is not A DIRECT TRANSLATION to be a different entity dererving its own article, then half of the Pokémon must be considered different from their Japanese counterparts (it's like saying "Lizardon is already an English word so it didn't need anything more than a romaji transilteration, but instead we got Charizard; since they have different names, then it's original content and thus they must be different Pokémon"). Its the same: International Green got its named changed into Blue and got some changes ("The BROCK") due to localization, but nothing more. [[User:Veggietable|Veggietable]] 23:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

==Should I include this?==
A tentative 'debug menu' can be accessed via the "Game Freak" screen. Only in Pokémon Yellow if the title screen is loaded with an invalid sound font a text box will appear below the "Game Freak" screen and the equivalent of the 'item obtained' sound will play, although the sound is only noticeable if the sound-font is quickly changed back to its usual default. The menu can be scrolled through, although the text is illegible and the only remaining option left for the player is to exit the menu. <ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AEI-ijQMBg Youtube video]</ref> <references/>--[[User:Chickasaurus|Chickasaurus]] 18:15, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Pokémon Red and Green beta

2010-11-10T05:24:58Z

Veggietable: /* Title change */

Talk:Pokémon Red and Green beta

2010-11-09T17:46:06Z

Veggietable: /* Title change */

2009-07-26T03:17:36Z

Veggietable: /* Trivia */

{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=DP090 |
prevtitle=Ghoul Daze! |
nextcode=DP092 |
nexttitle=A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine! |
series=Diamond & Pearl series |
colorscheme=Sinnoh }}
{{EpisodeInfobox|
epcode=DP091 |
altepcode=EP557 |
colorscheme=Sinnoh |
title_en=One Team, Two Team, Red Team, Blue Team!|
title_ja=最後の大勝負！ポケモントライアスロン|
title_ja_trans=The Final Contest! Pokémon Triathlon!! |
screen=yes|
broadcast_jp=August 28, 2008 |
broadcast_us=January 24, 2009 |
en_series= |
en_op=[[We Will Be Heroes]] |
ja_op=[[Together2008]] |
ja_ed=[[Message of the Wind|風のメッセージ]] |
olmteam=Team Iguchi |
scenario=藤田伸三 |
storyboardn=1 |
storyboard=浅田裕二 |
directorn=1 |
director=浅田裕二 |
artn=1 |
art=岩根雅明 |
morecredits=yes |
epstaffpage=DP091-DP100 |
footnotes=*[[filb-eppics:dp091|Screenshots on Filb.de]]
}}
'''One Team, Two Team, Red Team, Blue Team!''' (Japanese: '''最後の大勝負！ポケモントライアスロン''' ''The Final Contest! Pokémon Triathlon!! '') is the 91st episode of the {{series|Diamond & Pearl}}, and the 557th episode of the [[Pokémon anime]]. It first aired in Japan on August 28, 2008 and in the United States on January 24, 2009.
{{spoilers}}
==Synopsis==
The episode opens with a recap over [[DP088|the past three episodes]] and explains the challenge introduced in [[DP090|the previous episode]]. [[Professor Rowan]] says that the last event will be a triathlon, and {{Ash}} get pumped up. He begins talking to {{an|Dawn}}, Brock and [[Angie]] about how he'll win, when Angie buts in that she'll win. Dawn has to separate the two and Ash wishes Angie good luck by extending his hand for a handshake. Angie {{s|MorpheusShipping|blushes}}, remembering [[DP090|how Ash saved her]], and runs away. Ash is clueless as always about what just happened and begins prepping for the race. [[Conway]] pops up and has a talk with Dawn before running off as Rowan and [[Nurse Joy]] approach Ash and {{ashfr|co.}} Brock launches into the usual routine before {{TP|Brock|Croagunk}} stops him. Meanwhile, [[Jessie]] is busy getting pampered and reassures her team that they'll win while {{MTR}} and [[James]] continue their duties.

The race is about to start, so Dawn recalls {{TP|Dawn|Piplup}} and Angie recalls {{p|Shinx}}. An aide fires the staring pistol and Jessie quickly takes the lead. She easily reaches the first checkpoint and receives a {{p|Hippowdon}}. Jessie begins arguing with the aide over Hippowdon's {{stat|Speed}} while Ash and company reach the checkpoint. Ash, Dawn, Brock and Angie receive {{p|Spoink}}, {{p|Dodrio}}, {{p|Onix}}, and {{p|Ariados}} respectively and begin the first leg. Jessie finally starts out as other trainers catch up and is propelled forward by Hippowdown's surprising speed. Back at the school, Rowan and the others monitor the race. With the race, Dawn has taken the lead with Ash closely following when Angie uses {{m|String Shot}} to propel herself into first. Picking up on this, many {{pkmn|trainer}}s begin attacking each other. Conway takes advantage of this to pass them on {{p|Dugtrio}}.

Angie reaches the second checkpoint and trades Ariados for a {{p|Lapras}}. Ash closely follows, having passed Dawn, and receives a {{p|Mantyke}}. While Dawn and Brock trade for their Pokémon, Ash catches up to Angie when she again takes the lead with {{m|Ice Beam}}. Brock and Dawn, riding their {{p|Feraligatr}} and {{p|Sharpedo}} are passed by Conway and {{p|Floatzel}} and look on as he passes them. Jessie finally reaches the second checkpoint and argues with the aide over her position in the race and unfortunately receives a {{p|Magikarp}}. Surprisingly to James and Meowth looking on, Magikarp turns out to be incredibly fast.

In a practical dead heat, Ash and Angie reach the third checkpoint and return their Pokémon. Angie calls out Shinx and the third leg begins with both sprinting towards the end. Conway, Dawn, and Brock are approaching the end when Jessie speeds past them and reaches the third checkpoint. Conway quickly follows and Brock and Dawn follow from behind. Conway congratulates Jessie and somewhat creepily, begins to chase after her with {{p|Slowking}} as she tries to catch up to Ash and Angie. As Ash and Angie enter a cave, Jessie and Conway have managed to catch up with them and Jessie uses {{TP|Jessie|Seviper}} to attack them much to their and Conway's surprise. The ground beneath Ash and Angie begins to give way as Conway knocks out Seviper to slow Jessie down. Angie and Shinx barely manage to stop their fall by grabbing on a ledge, when Ash saves Angie again. Ash barely manages to pull Angie up and both sit down for a minute to catch their breath. Ash's relieved expression causes Angie to blush, but she quickly regains her composure when Ash point out that they have to make up a lot of ground and they begin racing again. Running at full speed, Ash and Angie quickly come close to the finish line where Jessie and Conway are exhaustively closing in. Seeing them approach, Jessie and Conway try to finish the race but due to their fighting, they are completely out of energy. Ash and Angie race for the finish and Ash wins by a nose. Ash begins celebrating while Angie has a moment of quiet thought. As other competitors cross the finish line, Conway and Jessie crawl across it and collapse.

The victory gave the Red team just enough points to win the challenge and all of the members receive a plaque after Rowan makes a quick speech. As a final celebration for the end of the [[Summer School]] a bonfire is lit and a buffet laid out. James and Meowth have a conversation while Jessie stuffs her face and says goodbye to the students who waited on her hand and foot. Over by the gate, Angie is sitting, looking at the stars when Ash comes over. Angie asks Ash why he saved her, and Ash, clueless to her crush on him, replies that he is her friend, making her look a little disappointed. Angie and Ash end their rivalry on a note of friendship. In the morning, everyone bids goodbye to their friends and Ash and co. wave to Angie before heading towards [[Celestic Town]] and Dawn's next contest.

==Major events==
* {{Ash}} wins the Pokémon Triathlon.
* The Red team gets the most points.
* The week in the [[Pokémon Summer Academy]] ends.

===Debuts===
====Pokémon debuts====

==Characters==
===Humans===
* {{Ash}}
* [[Brock]]
* {{an|Dawn}}
* [[Jessie]]
* [[James]]
* [[Conway]]
* [[Professor Rowan]]
* [[Angie]]
* [[Yuzo]]
* [[Nurse Joy]]
* [[Mitchell]]
* [[Kendall]]

===Pokémon===
* {{p|Pikachu}} ({{OP|Ash|Pikachu}})
* {{p|Meowth}} ({{TRM}})
* {{p|Piplup}} ({{OP|Dawn|Piplup}})
* {{p|Croagunk}} ({{OP|Brock|Croagunk}})
* {{p|Happiny}} ({{OP|Brock|Happiny}})
* {{p|Seviper}} ({{OP|Jessie|Seviper}})
* {{p|Slowking}} ([[Conway]]'s)
* {{p|Shinx}} ([[Angie]]'s)
* {{p|Elekid}} ([[Mitchell]]'s)
* {{p|Chansey}} ({{OP|Nurse Joy|Chansey}})
* {{p|Spoink}} (Used by Ash for the first leg)
* {{p|Sharpedo}} (Used by Dawn for the second leg)
* {{p|Dodrio}} (Used by Dawn for the first leg)
* {{p|Onix}} (Used by Brock for the first leg)
* {{p|Lapras}} (Used by Angie for the second leg)
* {{p|Feraligatr}} (Used by Brock for the second leg)
* {{p|Mantyke}} (Used by Ash for the second leg, debut)
* {{p|Hippowdon}} (Used by Jessie for the first leg)
* {{p|Dugtrio}} (Used by Conway for the first leg)
* {{p|Ariados}} (Used by Angie for the first leg)
* {{p|Floatzel}} (Used by Conway for the second leg)
* {{p|Magikarp}} (Used by Jessie for the second leg)
* {{p|Camerupt}}
* {{p|Blastoise}}
* {{p|Drapion}}
* {{p|Ursaring}}
* {{p|Tauros}}
* {{p|Shiftry}}
* {{p|Garchomp}}
* {{p|Luxray}}
* {{p|Arbok}}
* {{p|Tentacruel}}
* {{p|Wailmer}}
* {{p|Swampert}}
* {{p|Gyarados}}
* {{p|Azumarill}}
* {{p|Poliwrath}}
* {{p|Staryu}}
* {{p|Marill}}
* {{p|Delcatty}}
* {{p|Caterpie}}
* {{p|Gengar}}
* {{p|Ampharos}}
* {{p|Noctowl}}
* {{p|Exeggcute}}
* {{p|Sneasel}}
* {{p|Aggron}}
* {{P|Spinarak}}

==Trivia==
* ''[[Pokémon Symphonic Medley]]'' and ''[[To My Best Friend]]'' are both used as background music.
* [[Professor Oak's Pokémon lecture]]: {{p|Staraptor}}
* The next episode preview is narrated by [[Team Rocket]].
* A Pokémon has made their debut appearance in the {{pkmn|anime}} in every episode of the {{pkmn|Summer Academy}} arc from ''[[DP088|Camping It Up!]]'' to this episode, namely {{p|Monferno}}, {{p|Lumineon}}, {{p|Dusknoir}} and {{p|Mantyke}}. Of them, only Lumineon appeared in a movie from the {{series|Diamond & Pearl}} as well, appearing in both ''[[The Rise of Darkrai]]'' and ''[[Giratina and the Sky Warrior]]''.
**Mantyke, however, appeared in ''[[Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]]'', the final [[Advanced Generation series|Advanced Generation]] movie.
* [[Angie]] rode a Lapras on water frozen with {{m|Ice Beam}}, much like Ash did with his {{tp|Ash|Lapras}} in ''[[EP085|Fit to be Tide]]''.
* This is the only episode of the Summer Academy arc to feature any of Brock's Pokémon.
* The dub title is a reference to one of {{wp|Dr. Seuss}}' story books, ''{{wp|One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish}}''.
** Coincidentally, in the days of it's air date in Japan, [[Pokémon Red and Blue Versions|Pokémon '''Red''' and Pokémon '''Blue''']], the '''first''' and '''second''' Pokémon games, of where the player must get a '''team''' of Pokémon, had their 10th anniversary in the U.S.
*The [http://www.pokemon.com/#tvmovies_1139 Pokémon.com's] listing of Battle Dimension episodes lists the episode under the alternate title of '''Go Team Go'''. It's possible that it was a tentative title, or that the alternate title was used simply because the actual title would not fit the size of the listing.
*This episode is the most recent episode of the series in which [[Dawn's Piplup]] is returned to it's [[Poké Ball]] for a period of time (although it is released again by the end of the episode).
*In the Latin American dub of the anime, this episode marks the debut of [[Irwin Dayaán]] as the voice of Ash Ketchum.

===Errors===
[[File:Garchompgliding.jpg|thumb]]
*During one scene, Feraligatr's lower jaw was colored blue.
*Garchomp's eye coloring is inversed.

===Dub edits===

===In other languages===
* German: '''{{tt|Der Pokémon-Triathlon!|The Pokémon-triathlon!}}'''
* Polish: '''{{tt|Triathlon − ostateczne starcie|Triathlon − Final Clash}}'''
* Italian: '''{{tt|La gara finale! Il Triathlon dei Pokémon!|The final contest! Pokémon Triathlon!}}'''
* Latin American Spanish: '''{{tt|¡Equipo Uno, Equipo Dos, Equipo Rojo, Equipo Azul! |One Team, Two Team, Red Team, Blue Team!}}'''
* Czech: '''{{tt|Jeden tým, druhý tým, červený tým, modrý tým|One Team, Two Team, Red Team, Blue Team}}'''
* Hebrew: '''{{tt|!קבוצה אחת, קבוצה שנייה, קבוצה אדומה, קבוצה כחולה|One Team, Two Team, Red Team, Blue Team!}}'''

{{EpicodePrevNext|
prevcode=DP090 |
prevtitle=Ghoul Daze! |
nextcode=DP092 |
nexttitle=A Lean Mean Team Rocket Machine! |
series=Diamond & Pearl series |
colorscheme=Sinnoh }}
{{Project Anime notice}}
[[Category:Diamond & Pearl series episodes|091]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Shinzō Fujita|557]]
[[Category:Episodes storyboarded and directed by Yūji Asada|557]]
[[Category:Episodes animated by Masaaki Iwane|557]]
[[de:DP091]]
[[fr:Épisode 556]]
[[ja:DP編第91話]]