Bulbapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Leaf (game)

2018-11-18T10:36:57Z

ThePacisBack:

==Leaf==
So who made up that name? --[[User:Nyoo|nYoo]] 17:22, 2 February 2006 (CST)

:I want to know that too. Following the trend that the 1st and 2nd gen games set, her name should be Green, or Blue in the Japanese version. I'm guessing someone just chose one of the optional names from FRLG and gave it to her when they made the article. There's no real basis for her name being "Leaf", so shouldn't we go by precedence, as was done with Gold, Silver and Kris, and just call her Green?. -Shaddow Boy

::For an English Language Version, Green is accurate, however [[Green (game)]] already directs to Blue, does it not?--[[User:PikamasterADV|PikamasterADV]] 00:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

:Internal game data. There is a trainer, presumably used for debugging, with the sprite of the male player, and another trainer with the sprite of the female player. The male one is named Red, but the female is named Leaf for some strange reason. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]][[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]] 09:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
::English version or Japanese? --WikidSmaht 08:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
:::Both. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 10:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
::::This isn't really a good habit to get into. If we start taking unused data as official canon, then Professor Oak started with Squirtle, the Safari Zone had no Pokemon in it 3 years after Red and Blue, and that the Lake of Rage is still a town. It just doesn't make sense. Fire Red and Leaf Green have officially fixed Green's (male rival's), name to that of the original, leaving lone Blue, the third version gal, without a truly official name. While logic would suggest we should call her Blue due to the Manga as well as Blue being the color generation's third game, we are stuck basing her name on what can only be called speculation. Unused Data =/= Fact. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] 15:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Er, no. When it comes to the games' canon, internal game data > manga name. Otherwise we should be calling Brendan "Ruby" and May "Sapphire".
:::::And no offense, but your analogies are the ones that don't make sense to me. The prototypical Safari Zone in GSC doens't have wild Pokémon because the wild encounters data was never written, not because it was originally meant to not have Pokémon. And the finished versions of the games retconned Profesor Oak into not being a fight-able trainer, and the Lake of Rage into being just a lake are, not a town. But neither the finished games not Nintendo officially revealed a name for the FR/LG female protagonist, so if her name during the development stages was Leaf (which in-game data seems to prove it was), then it should still be, since there isn't evidence to make us believe that it was retconned into another name. [[User:Spideym|Spideym]] 00:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Well we can't call her Blue, because [[Blue (game)]] is the rival. [[User:Zurqoxn|Zurqoxn]] 01:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:If only GSDS would become reality, we'd know for sure, since then we'd have to find out what happened to her as well as Red. '''[[User:TTEchidna|T]][[User talk:TTEchidna|T]][[wp:Echidna|Echidna]]''' 09:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::We don't need another sequel. Besides her name, the answers are right here in front of us. The [[Blue (game)]] has officially been renamed as Green. All we have to do with the old article is point out that his English name used to be Blue, and was later changed back into Green. [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] 01:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:::No, it has not been officially renamed. The rival's first default name for the Red version does not qualify as the character's official name. For all we know, his name could still be "Blue," just because it's not a default name doesn't mean it's been officially changed. Taking evidence from all the games supports that the rival is Blue and the girl is unnamed (leaving us with Green), but the idea that Blue has become Green is just fan speculation. I also agree that we can't go taking in-game data as official, and believe the name of the girl should be Green until Nintendo proves otherwise.--[[User:Mezase Master|Mezase Master]]
::::No to you, Mezase Master. First of all, you'll give the reason to most of us when we claim that Blue, this is, Japanese Green, is now Green outside of Japan as well since FRLG. Why do I say this? Because of HGSS and in-game data. And if internal game data says that her name is Leaf in both Japanese and English versions, then we have to assume it is as such. It's like you're claiming that Nintendo, specially the American and European divisions, don't screw up on the manuals and stuff. Even if such material is official, it doesn't mean it's correct and in-game data is the superior form of canon in the Pokémon franchise, so I say you're wrong. [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 11:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::BTW, I e-mailed Nintendo of America back in late 2008 and asked them what was the official name of the female player character in FRLG. They told me that there isn't any and that players can name characters as they pretend (we all know that happens in every game except the rival in RSE), so we only have in-game data left. And if in-game data says that the name is Leaf, it's because it is. [[User:Pokemon lover|Pokemon lover]] 12:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Her name can't be "Green" because is the rival's name in the games already [[User:Haruka uzumaki|Haruka uzumaki]] 16:06, 24 September 2007
: Her name isn't "Green". It's "Blue". [[User:Fishman|Fishman]] 15:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

==Manga==
Okay, that manga information should definitely be in a separate article. But what series is it referring to? --[[User:Pie|Pie]] ~[[User talk:Pie|♪]][[Special:Contributions/Pie|♫]] 05:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

== RBG picture ==

So, supposedly she's based off of a picture from an old guidebook. Does anybody have an copy of this picture? I'm curious to see it. {{unsigned|Morgil27}}

== Blue artwork? ==

I found an image that appears to be the artwork described in the article. Is this it? [http://www.sailorteam.com/fakecard/starters/rgb.jpg]

It doesn't show her face, unfortunately. [[User:GigaMetroid99|GigaMetroid99]] 02:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
:We're not sure it's her but she does resemble Blue (Green in the U.S)--[[Santa Claus|'''☆''']][[User:CoolPikachu!|'''Cool''']][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|'''ピカチュウ!''']] 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
::I was just wondering if that was the picture that the article described with:

''Leaf was supposed to be in the original Red and Green versions, due to the fact that on Nintendo's Official guidebook, it depicted a female trainer with long brown hair, a black dress, white gloves and short black boots, alongside the male protagonist and the rival. It is believed she was supposed to be in the game, but was left out for some reason.''

If that's the right image, it should be added to the article to show viewers how she would have looked.[[User:GigaMetroid99|GigaMetroid99]] 01:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
:: I'm confused I thought the picture already was in the article.... I made a copy of it from somewhere...--[[User:Marhawkman|Marhawkman]] 02:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
::: Oh yeah, I remember reading in one of the articles something about how there are bits of code in red and green that treat the gender of the player character as a variable. wouldn't this be additional confirmation?--[[User:Marhawkman|Marhawkman]] 15:09, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

== Her back sprite ==

It may be me but her back sprite,and Red's,makes it look like she has brown eyes,despite what the trainer card shows. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 02:48, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

== Rival = Blue? or Green? HGSS ==

Well, being that the rival's name also complicates things, as TTEchidna said, if the Viridian City gym leader in Pokemon HeartGold & SoulSilver is Leader (or Gym Leader) Blue, then it's back to the drawing board, but if he's Leader (or Gym Leader) Green, the name of the female player character of FireRed & LeafGreen may very well be Blue then. {{unsigned|Team Snagem Jarrod}}
:Her name will be Leaf regardless. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 02:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Wouldn't the situation change if she appears in HG/SS under a different name? [[User:Tsum|Tsum]] 04:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
:It might but I think if the English translation calls the Viridian Leader "Green" to go with FireRed and Leaf''Green'', and has Red still in Mt. Silver, then this girl being Blue would confuse people due to Green being Blue in Gen II because before it was Red and ''Blue''. Leaf fits her best of all, unless they were to go a completely odd route and go with actual given names, in which case I'd bet that Red would be Satoshi in Japan and Ash here, Green is Shigeru/Gary, and Leafy-poo is Ashley. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 22:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== The only one not to appear in the anime? ==

Wouldn't Soul count? Also,what about Mark,Mint,Wes,Michael,Lucy,Kate, and Lunick? Or do it just refer to the main games. Even so,what about Soul? Or is it still up for grabs that she is just a redesign of Kris,and not a seperate character? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 03:39, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
:Soul's game hasn't even been released. Of course she hasn't appeared in the anime yet. If she appears, she will probably show up during the 13th or 14th seasons, late 12th at the earliest, assuming they return to Johto after the Sinnoh League and the Sinnoh GF. --[[Gallade|'''エ''']][[User:Galladeon|'''ルレ''']][[User talk:Galladeon|'''イ''''''ド''']] 04:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

== Apperence in HGSS? ==

If she's not, so should that be mentioned if she is not? Just saying b/c of the games comming out today.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 02:43, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
:It doesn't appear so. Just Red. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 02:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
::Alright was that added to article?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 02:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
:::Has anyone finished the game with {{ga|Kotone}} to confirm? All the places I've seen were finishing with {{ga|Gold|Hibiki}}. Maybe Leaf takes place of {{ga|Red}} when you play with Kotone. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 03:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
::::Well many have confirmed her not to be in HGSS, should I undo the trivia just in case? She might be in beta?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:41, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::I think it is too early to say it, it's better to undo it until someone who has finished with {{ga|Kotone}} to confirm. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 03:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::Alright, I'll do unless you already did.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 03:46, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

== HGSS (again) ==

Is it ''really'' confirmed that she is not in HGSS? Has ''anyone'' finished the game with <s>Soul</s> {{ga|Kotone}} to see if she is not in the place of Red? If not, the right thing to do is to remove this trivia. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 03:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:Okay, anyone answered, and people keep insisting on putting that freaking piece of trivia. It would be excellent if someone say ''where'' it is confirmed. I'm really sorry for bothering, but I just want to know if.someone.has.finished.with.kotone.and.proved.it. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:06, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
::Could you please stop asking already? I'm sure they are working on it. Be patient. I would do it myself but my rom always messes up by the time I reach Violet City. I have to wait a few weeks until I get the real game. We are not saying that she's in the game and we are not saying that she isn't. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 21:15, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:::People have ripped all of the trainer sprites (including the event-only Giovanni... at least, I believe he's event-only) from the game. Leaf is not included in them. I don't have the game or ROM to go through the game with Kotone just to double-check, though... [[User:Tina|Tina]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|♪]][[User talk:Tina|♫]] 21:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
::::I know it, it will take time, but ''I'' am also working on it. But people are insisting to put that trivia ''"[...] she does not appear in the games."'', and we do not have clear confirmation yet. I'll hide it, okay? Sorry again for bothering. -- [[User:RikkiKitsune|R<s>ikki</s>]][[User talk:RikkiKitsune|Kitsune]] 21:20, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:::::Leave it hidden. Although, Tina's comment gives great weight to Red staying there. Not to mention that there are a billion and one Red references. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 21:26, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
::::::Made it to Pallet. The mailbox says "Red's house". So yeah. I don't think she's here. However, there is a slim possiblity of her name being changed to Red in this game. But I highly doubt it. --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 22:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Actually, I think it's already been proven that Leaf isn't in HG/SS from what I know after watching the HG video with Kotone in it. I think it might be possible that the designers may have planned her to be in HG/SS. I don't know about you guys but do you think she could be in beta?{{unsigned|LeafGreen}}
::::::::Yeah, I actually {{tt|[http://community.livejournal.com/pokemon/3055811.html found her hidden in the game]|I'm totally trollin', guys.}}. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 05:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Well today, I made it to the top of Mt Silver as Kotone. Guess who was there? Give you a hint, it wasn't Leaf :D --[[Tracey Sketchit|'''ケンジ''']][[User talk:Kenji-girl|'''の''']][[User:Kenji-girl|'''ガール''']] 07:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

== Absence in other canons? ==

From what I've seen, she only appears in Special, as Blue, and in Firered/Leafgreen. Not in the anime, not in any other manga, not in any cards, not any figurines, etc.. I've only ever seen two official arts for her, the regular one and one with her and a Combusken. Does she appear in any other media? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 21:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
:Can you provide a shot of the one with the Combusken? Or a link?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 01:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
:: [http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/Pichu_Chu/6588.jpg This]. I think that's from the Game Freak website, they have had tons of official art there. Well, she did appear in that "Pocket Monsters" manga, so that counts..But, only two manga counterparts, and her one game appearence? She still seems pretty absent. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 00:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
She appears in Pokemon Colosseum too or is that just a cameo or beta thing because Red, May, and Brendon have are there [[User:Pika Blue|Pika Blue]] 7:29, 3 November 2009
:Does she appear in a playable way, or is it just a background thing?--[[User:Champion Victoria|Champion Victoria]] 11:46, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
That i really don't know all i know is that her image is there somewhere i haven't played the game myself i think its part of some marketing ploy at the time to get people to buy LeafGreen and FireRed along with Sapphire, Ruby, and Emerald.Because like I said before May, Red, and Brendon are there too. [[User:Pika Blue|Pika Blue]] 12:20, 22 December 2009

== Can I add this? ==

That leaf's clothes are opposites to Red's. As in Red's pants are the same color as her shirt and her red's shirt is the same color as her skirt. Same as for his and hers hats. Basically its showing they are counterparts.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 02:14, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
::It seems notable enough to add, no other characters share that yet. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 05:30, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:::Alright then, lets see what happens.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 01:04, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
::::Seems like a ridiculously convoluted way of saying it. Considering that all of the other game characters who are male/female counterparts wear similar clothes... '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:27, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

== Is this Leaf? ==

Where did this [http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/Pichu_Chu/botunennga.jpg image] come from? It seems to have something to do with this [http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/Pichu_Chu/6588.jpg one]. Those are the only two non-main official Leaf artwork I know of, they're all by Sugimori too. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 20:05, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
:Wow neat find, I'm not sure, it looks like leaf, umm is it just random artwork or like the TCG?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
::The first one I think doesn't have enough color to distinguish much--take off the brim of the hat and it would probably more resemble Dawn. The second one, however, as far as I can tell, is definitely based off this design (nevermind the fact that she's near a Pokémon heavily associated with May). --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 04:28, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

== Blue eyes? ==

Doesn't Red's sprite show him with blue eyes too? Plus, her pre-game sprite shows her with brown eyes, doesn't it? Her back sprite seems to show her with brown eyes too. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 01:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

== Title ==

Could someone upload Leaf's Title sprite from FRLG? Red has his, but Leaf doesn't. --[[User:ShinyPikachu/Petition|Never Give Up]] [[User:ShinyPikachu|'''Pika''']] 13:03, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

== HGSS ==

The article says her name was in the games. Does that mean she was supposed to be in it, or is her name just there for another reason? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
:You mean about the name "Leaf" is alternates for Dawn and Kotone? That just means they just share name. Or where soy talking about something out. Or do you mean about the dummied-out character? That was for FRLG.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 22:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
::It should say FRLG then, because in that context it makes it sound like they're talking about HGSS. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 18:45, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
:"Leaf's name was found in HeartGold and SoulSilver's data as a dummied-out opponent Trainer, alongside Red (whose name is Red as it was before)." Seems like they're talking about HGSS. Is this information correct anyway? >_> -- [[User:Zedd|Zedd]] 14:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
::It IS true. But that's in FRLG, not HGSS. That's where her name comes from also. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

== Credits sprite ==

It's a little bit botched. Can someone make a new animation?—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 23:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

== Trivia? ==
Both, Leaf and Red artoworks are holding pokeball and VS-seeker. This could be nice trivia? - ''unsigned comment from {{u|Banetoid}} ([[User talk:Banetoid|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Banetoid|contribs]]) ''

:No. There's nothing trivia worthy about that. —♥ [[User:Jello|Jel]][[User Talk:Jello|lo]] 06:10, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

==Cameo ==
First, sorry for my english
I haven`t played this game but I know that Drill Dozer was made by Gamefreak and I found this
http://www.spriters-resource.com/gameboy_advance/drilldozer/sheet/19334
I looks like one of Jill costumes is the same as Leaf.
This could be a trivia. {{unsigned|Virus bass}}
:Neat find. I think so.--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 21:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

== Is this looking too much into it? ==

Leaf and Kris are the first female players of their regions and are not reused again?--'''[[User:Midnight Blue|Midnight]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|''Blue'']]''' 04:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. —'''darklord[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|trom]]''' 08:04, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

== Why Leaf and not Green? ==

Okay, honestly, this makes no sense. I understand that you're taking the internal data as evidence, but internal data shouldn't always be taken as canon. If we named every character based on the internal data, then Blue would be called Terry, and Barry would be called Cedric, among others. Their internal files are called that for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that it should be their official name. I understand that your reasoning for using the internal data to support the name "Leaf" is because she's never officially named in game, unlike Red, Blue, Ethan, Lyra, Brendan, May, Lucas, Dawn, etc., but there [i]is[/i] evidence outside of game canon that supports the name "Green". Yes, most of the time you shouldn't take media outside of game canon as evidence, but that's exactly what you did when you decided to name the DPPt Rival "Barry", isn't it? And why did you do that? Because it was the most logical choice. The name "Barry" is present in the games as one of the preset names, and it's also supported in other media, media which also uses the canon name of Dawn, so it can be assumed that the name they're using for Barry is the intended canon name for him. Leaf's situation is no different. She's already been named "Green" in the manga (that is, in the English version, since the names of Blue and Green are swapped in Japan, but since this is an English wiki we use the English names), and it fits the Red/Blue/Green naming pattern, so why should we completely ignore those facts and instead go with "Leaf"?! It's just not logical. Whatever the verdict is, she'll always be Green to me, and she should be to everyone else, too. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 08:10, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:She's Leaf. Period and end of story. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 08:27, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::Why? Because you say so? Did you even read everything I wrote? You guys did this with Barry, so what's stopping you from doing it with Leaf/Green? —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 15:27, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::This has been discussed before, and there was a perfectly good reason for naming her Leaf. It probably says it in official guidebooks or something. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 18:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::I'm aware that it has been discussed before, but to my knowledge, the only solid evidence to support the name "Leaf" is from internal data. And like I said in my first post, there are so many things wrong with taking the internal data as an official name, especially when there's a much more logical name. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 19:33, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::This is like saying Brendan should be named Ruby. Leaf is what she's known as, that's the end of it. Nothing is stopping ''you'' from calling her Green, but that doesn't make it her real name. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 19:51, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::No, it's not at all like calling Brendan Ruby. Brendan has been officially named in the games, Leaf/Green hasn't. Since we don't have an official name to go by in the games, we should name her based on logic and evidence in other media. Green makes the most sense, and it's backed up by the manga. Leaf doesn't make sense at all. We know that she was planned to be in the Generation I games but never made the cut, so why would we call her Leaf, when the Fire/Leaf thing didn't come until Generation III? And Red isn't called Fire, is he? No, he's called Red, just like Blue is called Blue, and just like how "Leaf" should be called Green. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 20:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Red isn't called Fire because he's been named in GSCHGSS. Leaf and the Green from Adventures are different characters, just like Red and Ash are. One's name should not affect the other. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 20:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::That's a different situation, though. And although Leaf/Green from FireRed/LeafGreen is a different character from the Adventures Green, they're clearly based on each other. Red and Blue have their canon names in Adventures, so why should we assume that Green's name isn't the canon one used? Yes, later characters are named after their versions in the manga, but those are different generations, where the naming scheme has been changed in the games. In Generation one, their names were all colors, so why should Red's female counterpart be any different? Also, you guys are contradicting yourselves. You used the anime's name for Barry because he didn't have an official name in the games, and that's A-OK to you, but when we're talking about Leaf/Green it's wrong? Why is that? You went with Barry because it was the most logical choice, that's why. It's supported by both the games (as one of the random preset names) ''and'' the anime, and the same anime also uses the official name for the character Dawn, so there's really no reason not to trust it. It was the best choice there was, so you used it. And Green is the best choice for the name of the female protagonist of FireRed/LeafGreen, and planned female protagonist of Generation I, so why aren't we using it? —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 20:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I hope you realize, Tyeforce, that when an admin (TTE no less...) says that it's the end of the convo, then stop. '''[[Team Rocket|R.A.]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Hunter]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|Blade]]''' 20:35, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Sorry, I'd just like to know why he's so set on the name Leaf when Green is the more logical choice. If he's the admin, then he must have approved the change from Pearl to Barry, so why is he sticking with Leaf instead of Green? And if I can't voice my opinion here anymore, can I take it to the forums, or will my thread just be locked and I'll be told to shut up with no reason given like what's happening here?—[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 20:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::As much as I'm inclined to disagree with his choice in naming, I believe he is acting in his rights to call the name into question. No one likes to edit a wiki that has draconian admins, after all. However, I believe he's failed to produce the evidence that's required: What is there, ingame, that says her name should be Green? Nothing, as far as I can tell. Barry at least had it as a default name in two games (Barry [the name] was in Platinum, right?). Leaf's absence from Pokémon Canon makes Leaf her only logical name.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 20:53, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::You talk as if Leaf/Green didn't have "Green" as an option for her name in her games, either. She did, just as is the case with Barry. But Barry's not the ''only'' default name he's given. It's just one among many. So what made Bulbapedia decide to call him Barry? The fact that the anime also calls him that. And the ''same exact situation'' can apply to Leaf/Green. Like Barry, she's never officially named in game, except for the list of default names, of which includes the name "Green". But she's also named Green outside of game canon, just like Barry was named for that exact same reason, so that's what we should call her. If somebody didn't decide to give her the name Leaf (yes, I know that it was based on internal data, but I've already given reasons as to why that can't be taken as an official name) and name this article so, then people would be calling her Green, the most logical choice. It's Bulbapedia's fault that her name is widely accepted as "Leaf" now, just like it was Bulbapedia's fault that so many people started calling the DPPt Rival "Pearl". You have to understand that what you say here greatly affects the entire Pokémon community, so it's very easy for false information to be taken as fact. Now, I'm not saying that it's a ''fact'' that Red's female counterpart is named Green, but there's much more evidence that supports it as opposed to calling her Leaf, and it's just more logical. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 21:09, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:(Gogo Indent Reset) Responding to each claim in order: But you see, it doesn't matter that Green is also an option because we could just as easily substitute in any of her other default names and argue it on that case. Green is only a default if you're playing LeafGreen; for FireRed, she'd just as well be called Fire. As far as Barry is concerned, the name is not only in Diamond, but also Platinum, which gives that name the ingame edge it needs over Clint, the top default name from Pearl. Your arguments that she is Green outside the game canon are pointless because she doesn't exist in any other canon; "Green" from Pokemon Adventures was established long before FireRed and LeafGreen were announced, and is thus an entirely separate character (if the separate wiki articles didn't already clue you in). Barry is named such because it is his default name in Platinum, giving Barry a 2-to-1 bias over Clint, and a 2-0 over Pearl. Leaf has no such out; in FR, she can be called Red or Fire, and in LG she can be called Leaf or Green. Any name is just as likely as the others (except Red, obviously). The ingame data in this case acts as final arbiter: it could have been literally any name and it would have won out (due to being present in both FireRed AND LeafGreen). I still don't see how Green is any more likely than Leaf; Leaf has a spot on the default names list AND the ingame data, where Green only has the default names list. You aren't providing the evidence you need. Probably because it doesn't exist.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 21:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::You're completely ignoring the fact that the character Leaf/Green has existed since Generation I. Not as a playable character, but in official artwork, and we know she was intended to be in the games, but just never made the cut. With that in mind, why would you go with the name "Leaf", which makes no sense, considering that the terms Fire and Leaf hadn't been introduced until Generation III? And I know that she's not the same exact character as the Green in the manga canon-wise, but it's clear as day that the two ''are'' the same character, just in different canon. Since her counterpart and rival have kept their color names throughout the generations, why should her name be an element and not a color? You can through game data at me all you want (by the way, where is your proof that the name "Green" only appears in LeafGreen, but "Leaf" appears in both?), but it just doesn't make sense. Since we no official name for her, have to think about what the developers' intent is. Do you think that they would call her Leaf, or the more logical choice, Green? It would appear that "Green" is the intended name, since it's used in the Adventures manga (which is the closest media to the game canon other than the games themselves), and it fits the color naming scheme. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 21:54, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
:::The flaw with your first point is if we go by that logic {{p|Shellos}} would be a Generation III Pokémon. If the character wasn't present in the games, no amount of intention is going to put them there. That puts your question to rest as well; Leaf because the Character didn't exist in Generation I. Saying it's clear as day means nothing; you're talking about 'the manga' like it's somehow more infallible than the games themselves (I must have skipped over the part of the game where my PC was kidnapped by Ho-Oh and spent several years in Johto). As for proof that Leaf is in both games, Leaf is the dummied out name for the character in both games (similar that Red is the default in both games for the dummied out character that had his face, as well as whatever the weird name that Blue had in FRLG). In the naming screen, the opposite game's name is '''never''' an option; You don't start up Red and see Blue as the default name for your character. So it would be reasonable to assume that neither Leaf nor Green are options for the default names in FireRed. Thus there are two separate instances of Leaf (ingame default name and the dummied out trainer with her sprite) and only one instance of Green (the ingame default name). Finally, you have yet to show any proof that Green is more suited than Leaf. Manga-based arguments are irrelevant, as they aren't the same character (even if their bases are the same).--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 22:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Just stop arguing pointlessly. People all over call her Leaf. Leaf is the generally excepted name. As for the reason, I don't know. You can wait for TTEchidna to explain why, but don't argue with yourselves, when you don't know all the facts. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 00:38, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::Not claiming that Japanese fandom is the be-all end-all by any stretch of the imagination, but I just want to point out that I have never seen ''any'' Japanese fans call Leaf "Blue." They usually call her, indeed, "Leaf" (リーフ). Other names I've seen from J-fandom have been "Fuguri" (フグリ) and "main character♀" (主♀)... never "Blue." Just thought I'd point that out. :3 [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 00:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::::::What's "Fuguri" mean? Sorry if that's obvious...--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 01:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::::::"Fuguri" comes from "Rii'''fu guri'''in" (or rather, LeafGreen). :3 [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 01:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
{{indent}} 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3330177/omg.jpg
 [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 01:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Since it wouldn't let me post for some reason earlier today, I didn't get to post my reply to [[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]]. I'll go ahead and post what I tried to post earlier today but couldn't.

:Even if she wasn't physically present in the Generation I games, if she was, she would've been named Green, not Leaf. Since Red isn't renamed Fire and Blue isn't renamed Water in Generation III, why should we call her Leaf, instead of sticking with colors? And you're confusing me about the default name ''Leaf'''s presence in the games. At first you said that Green is only present in LeafGreen, but Leaf is present in both versions. Now you turn around and say that both Green ''and'' Leaf are only present in LeafGreen. Which is it? If the latter is true, then Green has just as much in game support as Leaf does, excluding unseen dummy files in the game data. You even brought up the fact that Blue's name in the game data is strange, not being Green like it should be (since that's his Japanese name). If we can't trust the internal data for Blue's name, then why should we trust it for Leaf/Green's name? With that said, if you exclude the internal data that can't be taken as fact and media outside of the games, then both names, Green ''and'' Leaf, have the same amount of supporting evidence for them (that is, assuming your first comment about the name Leaf being present in FireRed wasn't true, as you later suggested). They're tied, 1-1. So you have a choice to make. Should you go with the name that's present in placeholder data in the game (which can't be trusted, as shown by Blue's placeholder data), or should you go with the name that's also used in other media, ''and'' is more logical, fitting the color naming scheme? I think the choice is pretty obvious. Green is the name to go with. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 06:13, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
::Because she wasn't officially /in/ Gen I can she be inclusive to it. She existed as art and an idea that wouldn't come to fruition until Kris: a heroine choice. She may have "exist", but she is not a canon character until Gen III. This being her official debut, she has nothing to go on but these two games. She cannot be called Green, since FireRed is the Alpha game, making the "Green" character the rival (in essence). But seeing as there is no third game to possibly pawn her off on, the last bit is to chop the title in half, one name for the rival, and one name for the girl. Because the rival isn't officially 'Blue' by Gen III standards, since no Blue game exists in Gen III. Yes, he ''is'' Blue, in every English Gen that ''isn't'' the third. And since he's not Blue, but "Green," she, as a Gen III character, cannot be "Green". Hence. As she is a Gen III character only (so far), she cannot be named by the standards of Gen IV, only her own generation. If she had made an appearance in Gen IV...only ''then'' could her name be argued beyond the scope of her limited exposure. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 15:46, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Okay, now ''that'' makes sense. I hadn't thought of it that way. ''Thank you'' for actually providing logical evidence besides placeholder data that can't be trusted or fandom nonsense. If someone would have pointed that out a long time ago, I would've never argued over her name. So, again, I thank you for being the one to provide real, logical, valid evidence as to why she should be called Leaf. No longer will I call her Green. —[[User:Tyeforce|Tyeforce]] 03:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
:::: What's wrong with just saying this: Okay, so there's a "trio" from each Generation, correct? And each trio is named either with real names, or with version names. From Hoenn, we have Brendan, May, and Wally. From Sinnoh, we have Lucas, Dawn, and Barry. From Johto, we have Ethan, Lyra, and Emoguy. Anyways, since each "trio" follows a theme, meaning that the names have to be consistent with one another. Emoguy was given no clear name in HG/SS, so I can understand why we still call him Silver, since Ethan was previously known as Gold, but ANYWAYS, each name in the trio has to be consistent. Logically, what makes more sense: Red, Leaf, and Blue? Or Red, Green, and Blue? If it's that hard to notice people, '''the Kanto trio are named after colors''' Notice how "Leaf" is not a color. Just saying. EDIT: bah, screw it, who cares, it's just a name, afterall, Kris wasn't named Crystal. Leaf ftw! [[User:Chaos Rush|Chaos Rush]] 16:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

== Fuguri ==

Do you know that it means "testicles" in Japanese? Whoever calls her that, he's probably NOT serious about this name. And this makes this not trivia-worthy. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] 14:27, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:I do know that it means that, but fans do seriously call her by that name, and in a perfectly well-meaning manner. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 23:01, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
:Kay, so some kind anons on 2ch were able to clear up for me the true origins behind the name "Fuguri." Here's the answer that I ultimately received.
::''The very first FireRed/LeafGreen thread was titled "FireRed LeafGreen" (ファイアレッドリーフグリーン) without the &.''
::''Because of that, people responded with, "FireRedLee & Fugurin (ファイアレッドリー＆フグリーン)? What an obscene title!"''
::''I have a feeling that's how the "Fuguri" thing started.''
::''Incidentally, the male protagonist was also called "Red Lee." Though now the names "Remake Red" and "Leaf" have permeated [the fandom].''
:So yes, while it started out as a joke because of the word "scrotum," it turned into a legitimate fandom name for her, and people do call her that in all seriousness, without any obscene intentions behind it. [[User:Umeko|梅子]][[User talk:Umeko|❀]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|✿]] 00:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's somewhat like the fail pronunciation of Lyra's name as "Coat Own". They see "ko" and know "co", but "tone" doesn't read to them as two syllables, since it's an English word. And no one cares to read up on kana. You'd know someone meant Lyra if they called her Coat Own in a video. '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 00:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== PBR ==

You know, I've wondered this for a while. Red and Leaf appeared in the prerelease trailers for PBR; is it possible for players to assemble their outfits in PBR through the accessories, or not? '''[[User:TTEchidna|''TTE'']][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 18:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

== Leaf is her most common name? ==

The last trivia states this. However until recently she was mostly known as "Blue" in the fandom, due to Blue from Special. Even now she's still well-known as Blue. On a different note..Is a screenshot of her BR beta appearence article-worthy? Does anyone even have a somewhat high quality screen-shot? [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 04:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
:As far as I know(which isn't much, as I came into the fandom during DP), she is known as Leaf. Her manga counterpart is the one most commonly known as Blue(for silly reasons). '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' [[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]] 14:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
::Leaf's Special counterparts name is Blue though..Anyway, Leaf up until recently has been synonymous with "Blue" or "Green" up until recently. Even now, a lot of people call her "Blue" on both sides of the fandom. [[User:Lovely Rose|Lovely Rose]] 22:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, since The rival is known both as Blue and Green, It is safer to call her leaf.
And The PBR pic,the trailer Even on better sites like IGN, Is pretty low quality.
Unless someone has a better vid, we can't get a better picture. {{unsigned|Kanto Girl}}

== Early Design ==

I was looking on the internet, and found an image that looks like it could have been Leaf's original design. I cant upload the image, but I can give a link:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PokemonRedAndBlue?from=Main.ptitleevcce3c2

Go down to "What could have been" and click on female protagonist and you will see a pre design of Leaf. [[User:Iml908|Iml908]] 20:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
:[[Unreleased Pokémon and characters|We already have that]] [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

== Unknown ==

Shouldn't this article be tagged with {{template|Unknown name}}?
[[User:LurKasumi|LurKasumi]] 04:42, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
:In the internal game data of FRLG, her sprite is associated with the name "Leaf", just like the male character is named "Red", so it's valid. [[User:Duke R|'''|) u |( e''']] [[User talk:Duke R|'''®''']] 13:17, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

== Headwear ==

I remember that a few years back, this page had an interesting point of trivia. "If Leaf had been included in Red and Green with her original design, she would have been the only playable character to date without headwear." Well, that was the gist of it, but I'm sure it was worded better. Even now, 20 years after the original games, this is still true. Well, in the Playable Characters' default forms at least. Sun and Moon's protags are apparently able to remove their hats through customization. Could that be re-added? Or is it too random a trivia point to put down, especially since it's about an "if" rather than something that actually happened?
--[[User:BlackButterfree|BlackButterfree]] ([[User talk:BlackButterfree|talk]]) 02:42, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
:I would say not to re-add it. It's a pretty convoluted point, and like you said it never happened. [[User:Litwick96|Litwick]][[User Talk:Litwick96|96]] 02:51, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

== Comics ==

<center><gallery>
File:Sugi art book.png
File:Kensugiart.png
File:Kensugiart2.png
File:Kensugiart3.png
File:Kensugiart4.png
</gallery></center>
What exactly are these comics? Some early comic book? {{unsigned|RubyLeafGreenCrystal}}
:It looks like it was from some sort of craft (like origami) book. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 18:38, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

== Leaf now called Green in Pokémon Let's Go? ==

Just read this now:

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2018/11/7/18072704/pokemon-lets-go-trailer-red-blue-green-trainer-fights

It looks like '''Leaf''', who was just announced on the newslink above as making a guest appearance on [[Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee!]], won't be officially named Leaf but Green instead! But if Green was the Japanese name for [[Blue (game)|Blue]], then how will she be named in Japanese if "Leaf" is dropped for "Green"? (Also posted this on [[Talk:Player character#Leaf now called Green in Pokémon Let's Go?|Talk:Player character]].) [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 14:33, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
:So far the only [https://pokemon.gamespress.com/THE-ELITE-FOUR-RETURN-WITH-A-FRESH-NEW-LOOK official news release] by Pokemon.com and their social media sites make no verbal mention of Red, Blue, and Leaf/Green. They don't even provide official clean renders of the artwork of the later four Gym Leaders, which the English trailer showed. Until we get clarification from Pokémon itself, or the game releases, we can only consider this idle speculation by Polygon.
:That said, if her name DOES indeed turn out to be Green, it will contradict what we considered to be the official source for Leaf's name after years of silence: [[a:File:Leaf and Squirtle artwork.png|her Kotobukiya ArtFx J concept art]]. - [[User:Chosen|Chosen]] of [[User talk:Chosen|Mana]] 14:58, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
:: Whatever she will be called (probably Leaf) we should consider that the Let's Go games might take place in their own separate canon from the other core games (I don't deny they're main series, I question if they're a separate branch in the main series) since the new protagonists seem to replace the classic ones in Pallet Town while the classic ones are still existing and out and about.
::(and I don't mean a different timeline, but actually a completely different continuity like the anime and manga that does it's own thing different from the games)
::So perhaps in that case a separate page, for example Red(Let's Go) and the Red(game) page we have, coexisting as counterparts would be in place.
::It's still just speculation at this point of course, we'll have to wait and see...--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 08:41, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Just wait until the games are released before you start suggesting all of this, please. We'll have the answers soon enough. Then we'll decide what to do. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] ([[User talk:Ataro|talk]]) 12:33, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Well yes of course but I see no harm in brainstorming potential scenarios to be at least a bit more prepared at release for what may come.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 15:22, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
:Unless we see official confirmation that the LGPE character is the same character we currently call Leaf (alternate timelines nonwithstanding), LGPE is unlikely to affect this page's name. I doubt being "the female Gen I trainer" is enough to count as Leaf, because it would be similar to the {{ga|Kris}}/{{ga|Lyra}} situation. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 01:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
::Well, she is confirmed to be called Green in-game as seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPwtcdhlL3Q [[User:Sucoleo|Sucoleo]] ([[User talk:Sucoleo|talk]]) 08:41, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Don't be funny. The game literally slaps us in the face that she's one and the same, by giving her an intermediate design between her Gen I and Gen III self. Don't grasp at straws. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 09:34, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
::::I agree that this is definitely meant to be the same character. Her top is clearly just inverted colours of her FRLG design, she's wearing shorts instead of a skirt and not wearing a hat. This change in design seems to be more of a difference like {{ga|May}} between her RSE and ORAS design than a {{ga|Kris}}/{{ga|Lyra}} difference. [[User:Tarawl|Tarawl]] ([[User talk:Tarawl|talk]]) 15:27, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Whether Blue/Leaf is the same character or not, this does not affect Leaf as the official name of FRLG female protagonist. Yea, this is like Kris/Lyra case. Some people think that they are the same character, and Some people don’t. And Red(original/remake), Gold/Ethan, Elio(SM/USUM) and Selene(SM/USUM) are the same case also, although Bulbapedia has different treatments for them each. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 16:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::That's some pomfed logic to me. If it wasn't for the Kotobukiya figure, this issue would be non-existant. Different names for nameable characters exist, like they always did. There's absolutely no reason to split articles. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 18:00, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Darn... had she be named Leaf like the figurine, that would have been more wise of Pokémon as to alleviate a bit the whole Blue/Green shenanigans that the fandom has been stuck with for years. I guess game-npc name takes preference over a figurine assigned name in this case I suppose...--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 19:08, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
:::It all comes down to Japanese names here. If (and only if) the LGPE character's Japanese name is リーフ, the two characters are one and the same. If the characters do not share a Japanese name, then there is nothing connecting the two, aside from both being derived from the unused Gen 1 girl. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 02:00, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::If you plan to maintain only one page, then hope that you use the corresponding official artwork, instead of using Leaf’s artwork and call this page Green. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 07:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::If they're two separate characters, a new page for [[Green (game)]] would need to be created. (It's currently a redirect to [[Blue (game)]], because of the localization name switch.) [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 12:02, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Even if Green goes by Blue in Japanese instead of Leaf, everything else about the two still connects them together. she is design-wise obviously not a different character, Red and Blue aren't different characters either and neither would she be, ''unused Gen 1 girl'', Leaf and Green are all the same girl and have always been the same girl. Arguing otherwise is really unnecessarily grasping at straws. Unless Let's Go is of a different separate canon, then perhaps would it be in place for most characters to have a (Let's Go)version page, like how the anime versions of characters often have their own (anime)version page, (manga), Ash(M20) etc.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 17:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yep, I agree. It's clear that they're one and the same. This page itself already considers Leaf to be the same as the "unused Gen 1 girl" -- which is Green/Blue in Let's Go. Design-wise, this case is much different from the Kris/Lyra situation. Leaf and Green share the exact same design (brown hair, brown eyes, same hair, same shirt). It's just that the clothes are a little different. They're based on the same "unused Gen 1 girl". It's very obvious they're the same character. Kris and Lyra were different enough to warrant the split, but the same can not be said for Leaf and Green. The page should be renamed to Green. If anyone is still wondering, her Japanese name is indeed Blue (ブルー) in-game as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J26t65DI7j0 [[User:Sucoleo|Sucoleo]] ([[User talk:Sucoleo|talk]]) 19:18, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::Basically this. It's so obvious that it's meant to be the same character, the only way it could be more conclusive is if Masuda or someone else outright states it. This is more like the Gold/Ethan situation over the Kris/Lyra situation where the new name just replaces the old one in canon (If Leaf could have even been considered canon) rather than a whole new character replacing in canon. It also makes the most sense as the canon name (Red, Blue, Green vs. Red, Blue, Leaf). [[User:Tarawl|Tarawl]] ([[User talk:Tarawl|talk]]) 20:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Look at my side of the argument again. There is no official source indicating Green is derived from Leaf, and visually she's the unused Gen 1 girl with a few elements taken from Leaf. And on top of that, she has a different Japanese name despite Leaf being officially named in Japanese ''during the development of Let's Go''. Given what I've just said, any claim that Leaf and Green are the same character is pure speculation, and we don't deal in speculation. We waited for over three years for a source to say Zygarde was part of a trio despite it being "obvious", so there's no reason for us to claim Green is Leaf without a source. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 04:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I agree with Bwburke94. I propose that we create a new page for the unused female character from Generation I and include information about Green from Pokémon Let's Go on that page. Leaf and Green seem to be strongly indicated to be separate characters; although Leaf is partially based on the unused character from Generation I, there is no evidence at the moment to suggest that they are one and the same. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:47, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Sure. Let's split it into three - "the unnamed Gen I girl", "Leaf the FRLG character" and "Green the NPC". I also recommend making a separate article for the Kotobukiya figure, just in case. Or... I know, maybe let's telephone Junichi Masuda on the matter? Is John Gamefreak's nephew in da house?! *A Poké Ball came flying at you* --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 08:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::Dude, don't be like that. You make yourself look dumber than you make us look. We're trying to have a civil discussion about an issue on a Pokémon fan wiki. Being sarcastic like that helps nobody. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 10:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'm not the one who started talking insane. Really, the game slaps you in the face with obvious evidence, yet you people say "hurr speculation durr unconfirmed". If you need an official statement like "She is/isn't the same character", then in all seriousness, the only way is to contact someone from Game Freak, because official materials will most likely never give you that. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 11:46, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::If you have evidence, then by all means provide it. Keep in mind it needs to prove that Green is Leaf, but not necessarily that Green and/or Leaf is the Gen 1 trainer. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 12:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::::[https://twitter.com/revolocities/status/1063193075655237632 For the love of Arceus...]--[[User:YoHaNe|YoHaNe]] ([[User talk:YoHaNe|talk]]) 12:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I don't think you understood what I meant. The evidence needs to prove that ''Green is Leaf''. Not that Green might be Leaf, or that Green and Leaf share a character pose. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 13:18, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

== Is LGPE Green the same person as Leaf? ==

Starting a new section because the last one got a bit out of hand.

My argument is as follows: Green shares more visual similarities with her Gen 1 design than she does with Leaf, and shares her Japanese name with her Gen 1 design but not with Leaf. Because Leaf's Japanese name was given to her during the development of LGPE, she would have been named as "Blue" (ENG Green) on that figure if she were the same character as Green. Also, there are no official sources that state that Leaf is the same character as either version of Green.

This means that the following course of events is very possible: Nintendo/Game Freak decided to put Red/Blue/Green in LGPE. Because Red and Blue are based on their Gen 1 designs, they chose to use Green from Gen 1 instead of Leaf from Gen 3, despite the fact Green didn't make it into the finished version of Gen 1. Green did take some traits from Leaf, but is still a distinct character of her own.

If any of you can refute that statement, feel free to respond. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 13:39, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:My argument is that the Green we see in LGPE shares all physical features with Leaf and wears a hybrid outfit of hers and Leaf(these similarities were not the case with Kris and Lyra) and are both associated as part of the Kanto trio.

:Back when FRLG came out they updated the original trio, Red got a new outfit, Blue got a new outfit and unused gen 1 girl got a new outfit, she so happened to be named Leaf in the data so that is the name she got stuck with on here, but that holds no merit, Blue was named Terry in the data, so should there be a Terry(game) page? No, of course not. Had she be named Green back then, I'd highly doubt we would be having this discussion and everyone would easily accept that it is the same character just like everyone accepts that fact for Red and Blue.

:We never needed official sources that confirmed that Red and Blue from FRLG were the same characters from RGB, but we need one now for Green? I'm sorry but I'm genuinely baffled.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 14:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::Your argument relies on the assumption that Leaf is directly based on the protagonist from the unused Pokémon art. The creators never confirmed this, only that she drew inspiration from that character. This new Green is inspired by both the unused character and Leaf, that part is true, but "inspired by" is not the same as "is the same character". There is overwhelming evidence to support that Red and Blue are the same characters as the original, especially because they have appeared in multiple games before this. I would also like to add that Leaf's FR/LG appearance is drastically different from the unused character than Red and Blue's appearances compared to their Gen I counterparts, so it seems to me that Game Freak decided to recycle some old concepts while creating Leaf and then return to their original plan for Pokémon Let's Go. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 14:28, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::You people really overestimate Kotobukiya's value. It's not a Game Freak source (and we don't know their philosophy of naming player characters - for example, if they made a GSC male character figure and named it "Gold", would you split Ethan's article into two? Or if they made an USUM-based "Ailey" figure?) and the FR/LG data name is just unused beta content. The pose and design of her LGPE appearance makes it blindingly clear that they meant Green to represent both the FR/LG girl character and the unused Gen I girl. Of course they wouldn't make her appear in her full FR/LG attire, because that'd be inconsistent with Red and Green's designs in these games. But they gave her some FR/LG elements in order to make her recognizable (not that it was ever a problem to recognize her - to me, Red's Gen I and Gen III designs are way more apart than Green's, but that's of course an opinion). How is it speculation? It's simply logic. I know that Bulbapedia loves denying things until an unambiguous answer is shoved into our faces. But treating the two as separate is just as speculative than treating them as one (I'd say way more speculative, considering that GF is obviously trying to bring their appearances together). They are different characters, but only because of multiverse and in this logic, we would have to split literally everyone. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 14:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::::I propose a compromise because this argument is getting to be ridiculous. We rename this page to Green, but restructure the entire page, starting from the unused character art from Generation I, include a section about Leaf, and finally get to Pokémon Let's Go. In the page itself we should address the character's complicated history. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 14:41, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::That I find better than splitting into separate pages--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 14:48, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::: I never imagined that a small inquiry I made a few days ago would lead to a bigger argument than the {{ga|Elio}}/{{ga|Selene}} vs Ray/Ailey debate that started one year ago and lasted until about a month ago. Welcome to Bulbapedia again! [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 15:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC) (P.S. Splitting this thread into two sections was a wise idea, [[User:bwburke94|bwburke94]].)

:::::::There would also be the header at the top of the page about it having been proposed to split the page into separate pages with the Shedinja.--[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 15:54, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::::IMO, “Leaf” and “Green” are clearly the same character. Green’s design is a hybrid of the designs of the female player character from FRLG and the beta character from Red and Blue. (Her dress is black like in RB, and it has the same ring as the top as it does in FRLG. Additionally, the yellow bag and the hairstyle (without the hat) is the same from FRLG.) She was revealed alongside Red and Blue and she plays a similar role in game to both of them. Heck, her new name even is parallel to Red and Blue’s. It makes sense that the female player character, the male player character, and the rival would be highly connected. I think that just because her new name doesn’t match with a fan name that was given to her long ago and picked up by a non-GAMEFREAK source should not dictate that two characters who, by examining the designs and the roles they play, are the same character, are NOT the same character. But that’s just my opinion. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:07, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::::::I had just resolved the argument with a compromise and you come in to initiate it again. *sighs* --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 16:11, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::I just wanted to provide my input :/ --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:14, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::::Well, I'm glad at least that you did so in a reasoned, professional manner, I would honestly have rather had the original discussion with you involved. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 16:19, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::::::Thank you :) --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 16:23, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::I'd accept the compromise of covering them both on one page, ''as long as'' we continue to call the FRLG character "Leaf". Within the context of FRLG, only one character can reasonably be called "Green" and it isn't her. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 16:44, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::I respectfully disagree... If a canon name is brought in for an official character where there was none before, I don't see the point in continuing to refer to the character as an older fan name for the older games. (For reference, there was a similar discussion at [[Talk:Ethan (game)]] where there was a discussion over the names Gold vs. Ethan.) Besides, there really isn't any other character who can reasonably be called Green in FRLG— we refer to the rival character in FRLG as Blue even though the games are Fire''Red'' and Leaf''Green''. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 18:41, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::In that case, it's not a compromise at all, is it? [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 18:56, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::To Bwburke94: Yes, that is true. I see the point of compromises, but I think it might be better to have more accurate information in this scenario. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 19:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm agreeing with renaming because it seems to be her new official name. Along with an edit to the name origin section that would explain the naming confusion. [[User:Tarawl|Tarawl]] ([[User talk:Tarawl|talk]]) 20:01, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:What was the reason why we called the character "Leaf" in the first place, anyway? All I know is that it comes from the female name list of LG, which contains both "Leaf" ''and'' "Green" just like the male name list. Isn't "Leaf" just something fans generally agreed upon in the absence of a single, official name? If that's the case, I see no problem renaming the page "Green". [[User:Immblueversion|Immblueversion]] ([[User talk:Immblueversion|talk]]) 19:33, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::It was a placeholder in the data of FRLG. It's addressed on her page.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 20:04, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Indeed. Nintendo never officially referred to her as that; we only used the placeholder name because we didn't have a more "official" name. Now that she has finally been given a proper name by the games, I see no reason to keep the current name. [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 21:21, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
::::The reason she is called Leaf is because it makes more sense within the context of FireRed and LeafGreen. Red and Green in those games are the protagonist and the rival, and since there is no WaterBlue, it makes sense to call the female protagonist option "Leaf" because that way it still parallels the rival's name "Green". And once again, as Bwburke94 and I have said numerous times, we don't HAVE accurate information for this topic. The indication, from our perspective, is strong that there isn't proof Leaf is the same character as Green, but we are willing to come halfway.--[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 21:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::In FRLG, the rival's name is "Blue" in the west and "Green" in Japan. This is reversed for the female protag where she is now confirmed to be "Green" in the west and "Blue" in Japan. It makes 100% sense for the female protagonist to be called Green (ブルー in Japanese). In fact, the name "Leaf" doesn't make sense in a naming standpoint due to them being named after the 3 colours of the games. 21:42, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::Depends on what you consider proof, I think there is an abundance of proof.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 21:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

:::::What proof do you need to accept that they're the same character? Just look at them! Their faces, hair, eye color and bags are identical or close to it, and the top of Green's dress is clearly designed to look reminiscent of Leaf's shirt, except color-flipped.[https://www.serebii.net/letsgopikachueevee/rgb/green1.jpg][https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/4/48/FireRed_LeafGreen_Leaf.png] Red had more changes between his original design and his FR/LG redesign. Do we also need proof that "Gold" and Ethan are the same character? [[User:Golden Trainer|Golden Trainer]] ([[User talk:Golden Trainer|talk]]) 01:56, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

::::::I am afraid this is getting out of hand again… All the debate and contention generated by the Elio/Selene-vs-Ray/Ailey controversy in one year is now being surpassed by this discussion in less than a month. Time to close this section and start a new one below… [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 04:06, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

{{indent}}…which I just did right now. The previous thread became just as long as the first one (roughly four 768px-tall browser screens long). And since I was the one who initiated the conversation in the first place, I decided not to take an official stance in this debate — I’ll let you duke it out while I watch the ongoing events. Welcome to Bulbapedia again! [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 04:06, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:You don't have to create a new section when a discussion gets too long for your liking. Just leave it be. If the chain of comments is getting to confusing, just reset the indents (it's what <nowiki>{{indent}}</nowiki> is for).--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:19, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

::My comment above was deleted, so I am re-posting it here to continue the above discussion. It makes sense in the context of the series as a whole, but for FR/LG Leaf makes more sense as a counterpart to Green, since a "WaterBlue" doesn't exist in either Japan or America. --[[User:LavaringX|LavaringX]] ([[User talk:LavaringX|talk]]) 05:40, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
:::... So what if there is no WaterBlue. An identical looking girl exists in association with Red and Blue, it makes sense for the franchise if that girl is the same girl like the other two boys are the same boys.--[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 10:27, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

::Just to contest a common point being brought up here: Kotobukiya is not a "Game Freak" source, but this does not make it unofficial. Someone at The Pokemon Company obviously had to take a look at the product before deciding that it was an accurate representation of the franchise and gave it the official seal of approval. TPC has a storied history of strictness and standards in interacting with these affiliates. Despite Let's Go already being in development at the time of the figure's conception, they clearly had no issue with Leaf as the character's name. Unless the staff is interested in introducing a magical "degrees of canonicity" system, I don't see why it should be discredited. There are a wellspring of things on the wiki considered canonical by current standards that haven't been directly echoed by Game Freak gospel, but have been run by TPC/TPCI and are considered fine--[[User:ThePacisBack|ThePacisBack]] ([[User talk:ThePacisBack|talk]]) 10:36, 18 November 2018 (UTC).

Talk:Selene (game)

2018-10-08T21:30:45Z

ThePacisBack:

==The Protagonist's Name==
Since the female player character doesn't have an official name, so why are we referring to her as Moon? I understand that with past Pokémon titles, some of us called the player characters what the names of the games were, but the names eventually changed. And while the male protagonist may be called Sun in the Special Demo, does that mean we should call the female protagonist Moon? (Think about the ΩRαS Demo and Orlando). So (I'm looking for the community's vote), should we keep the name as it is or change it until further notice from the Pokémon Company? [[User:MaddoxTheMudkip|MaddoxTheMudkip]] ([[User talk:MaddoxTheMudkip|talk]]) 00:48, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
:This has already been discussed [[Talk:Player character#Sun and Moon's Names|here]]. By staff decision the names we use are now Sun and Moon. If you have any thing to add please do. --[[User:Raltseye|Raltseye]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 01:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

[https://68.media.tumblr.com/8d98e473414dea850fec86cbcbe2be2f/tumblr_otvr3wayKt1sfqg1uo1_1280.jpg image]

Now we confirmed that the official called her Mizuki. So should this page be named to Selene? (And Sun's page named Elio (Yo)) [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 01:40, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

:Seems cool with me. I can see where they chose Mizuki and Yō from - with the way the former name is spelt according to what I've seen both on the main page and elsewhere, the zu is a tsu with a dakuten rather than a su so it's a corrupted tsuki; and Yō is probably derived from taiyō. Honestly, I'm not really sure if I've seen the name Mizuki spelt that way anywhere else given how rarely used that instance of zu is. [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 02:26, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
::It's up to staff to decide. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 02:44, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
:::For the sake of posterity, [https://twitter.com/kotobukiyas/status/891464453744508929 here is the original source]. I agree with renaming the Moon and Sun game pages to Selene and Elio, too. [[User:JB2448|JB2448]] ([[User talk:JB2448|talk]]) 05:04, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
:::And again, for the sake of posterity, here are the videos with timecodes that the Japanese and English canon names are used in: [https://youtu.be/OF_OrULIEWA?t=71 【公式】『ポケットモンスターサン・ムーン』最新ゲーム映像（6/15公開）at 1:10] and [https://youtu.be/9Ojd6FzTaEM?t=67 "Meet New Pokémon and Discover Battle Royals in Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon!" at 1:06] [[User:JB2448|JB2448]] ([[User talk:JB2448|talk]]) 11:27, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree with moving both pages, either to Selene/Elio (my preferred choice, as these are officially-used equivalents) or to Mizuki/Yō (if we want to stay at the safe side). And before anyone says that moving Sun's page is an assumption, then again, so is using "Sun". And since the girl character is officially known as Mizuki, then it pretty much debunks the assumption that boy's name is "Sun". Sun and Mizuki/Selene just don't add up. So, moving them both is the only way. --[[User:Maxim|Maxim]] ([[User talk:Maxim|talk]]) 12:35, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

::::: I also agree in that this should be renamed as either "Selene" or "Mizuki". The latter is 100% confirmed now, so there's no reason to keep it as Moon. Sun should also be moved for consistency's sake, since either "Elio" or "Yo" are more valid assumptions than Sun. --[[User:Gabo 2oo|Gabo 2oo]] ([[User talk:Gabo 2oo|talk]]) 13:13, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Don't see a reason why not to change it, Selene/Mizuki and Elio/Yo it is. --[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 18:56, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Quite curious as to how that makes their names Selene and Elio for English. I understand the Mizkui situation, but where does Selene, Yo, and Elio come from? (and I'll be quite honest I don't like the names Selene or Elio either). This is mostly because they ARE still promotional names like Orlando, Blair, Anna, etc. which means the only official name is Mizuki. I'll be fine with Yo if it's considered the equivalent to it. English name should stay as Moon for now in my honest opinion. Also for the purpose of trivia and the name itself, Mizuki translates to waterwood (a type of tree that sprouts flowers keeping in line with the flower theme of the characters) and is a common female Japanese name meaning "beautiful moon, which I still think can be translated to just "Moon" for the English readers.[[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 23:11, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

: You can check the video above that's where Mizuki/Selene and Yo/Elio come from. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 00:38, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

:: I've stated that those are still promotional names, that video doesn't showcase the Japanese names.We can't use promotional names in such a way because they are almost always inaccurate, the only official use of any of the names is Mizuki used in in ARTFX J figurine. Otherwise they should remain as Sun and Moon any other time. I say we wait until to get official English and Japanese usage outside of trailers (aside from the name Mizuki) and keep them as Sun and Moon. They have a figma figure of her too, and we often get western releases of figmas, so I say wait until we get a translation of the figure or if possible wait and see if the two protags reappear/renamed in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. [[User:TrainerSplash|TrainerSplash]] ([[User talk:TrainerSplash|talk]]) 01:03, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

: The video have Japanese and English... [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 01:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

:: TrainerSplash; as you know, we already have the name '''Mizuki''' confirmed. Now, thanks to the trailers, we know for sure that '''Selene''' is the English equivalent for Mizuki. As for the male protagonist, '''Yo''' is the male equivalent for Mizuki, and '''Elio''' is the English equivalent for Yo. That's where all the four names come from. If you insist in only official usage, then we still have to move this to Mizuki, and Selene is still as valid as Moon because both haven't been confirmed at all in English media. Perhaps we could move this to Mizuki, then wait for the figma figure and see which name they use for the English release, if they do one. --[[User:Gabo 2oo|Gabo 2oo]] ([[User talk:Gabo 2oo|talk]]) 00:00, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

:::While Mizuki may be her official name in Japanese, in English, Selene is only used officially once. As per the [[Bulbapedia:Manual of style#Naming conventions|MOS]], an official English name takes precedence over a Japanese name. Since Sun/Moon were used extensively during the pre-release period, they currently take precedence as the most commonly used English names for the characters in official material. There's no point in moving this now if an English release of the figure or USUM change things up. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 00:52, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

:::: That's a pretty bad justification. Why update the legendary Pokemon article right now if USUM may change that? Why change the anime article if future episodes may change that? We should care about what's happening right now, and currently Mizuki Is the official name of the character in Japanese, with absolutely no reason to doubt Selene is the official English name. Keeping the article as Sun / Moon would be deceiving visitors when we all know those names are not real. Also, this is about the SM main characters, not the USUM main characters, which as far as we know could even be two totally different characters. [[User:Josephvb10|Josephvb10]] ([[User talk:Josephvb10|talk]]) 20:16, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
:::::Just because X translates to Y, that does ''not'' mean that if X is official, so must Y be. The English side can do whatever it wants, we will NOT presume for them. We can wait. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
::::::Sun/Moon ''are'' officially used, including in that same video in which Elio/Selene is used only ''once''. Sun/Moon are not fake or misleading names. --[[User:Abcboy|Abcboy]] ([[User talk:Abcboy|talk]]) 22:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Is this STILL being argued over?! I thought we settled this dispute a long time ago! [[User:Toolen|Toolen]] ([[User talk:Toolen|talk]]) 00:19, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Now we confirm Selene = Mizuki. http://www.goodsmile.info/en/product/6782/figma+Selene.html [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 12:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
:Welcome to Bulbapedia. Somehow, even after the Selene Figma was announced yesterday and what is blatantly stated by the games' data and promotional material, it's probably going to take further proof that the male protagonist's equivalent names to Mizuki and Selene before the staff approve the change despite those factors and general consensus literally everywhere else, and I have no clue what the point of going to such extreme forms of mistake avoidance is. [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 15:41, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
::Regardless of the Figma figure, Selene and Elio are names related to these characters' appearances in Sun & Moon. Now that they have new prerelease names for USUM, Ailey and Ray should be the names we move them to if at all, since these are the most recent names. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 15:58, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

:::But they are considered as the same roles. If they use different names, are they different roles? [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 16:03, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:05, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::That's like saying that Brendan and May's articles should be renamed to Orlando and Anna just because some of ORAS's promotional materials and the demo called them that. If you're going to go that route, see if all instances of Elio and Selene hidden in SM's coding are changed to Ailey and Ray in USUM, and if they aren't just rename their articles to Elio and Selene like what should have been done following the Figma release, or even back when that first figure was released nearly three months ago. [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 19:36, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
::::::Orlando/Anna is a terrible argument, the characters were still referred to as Brendan/May within ORAS, that easily overrides the other candidates. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:46, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::::And were there any instances of them being called Brendan and May in ORAS prior to their release? [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 20:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::::They were known as Brendan and May, only as a rival in ORAS prior to their release, like what they do with Calem and Serena. (Although not in the official website directly pointed out to their name but on the screenshot shows.) [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 00:21, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Azureprism, care to point out where Elio/Selene are used in game data and coding? Regardless, USUM comes out in the less than a month. It doesn't hurt to wait. --[[User:神奇超龍|'''超龍''']]「'''[[User talk:神奇超龍|Chao]]'''」 00:54, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::You could easily argue that only the rival characters in ORAS were Brendan/May, where as the default name for the protagonist is Orlanda/Anna. But I don't see the point of arguing this, the official release by Goodsmile and Nintendo refer to this character as Selene. Anything else being used is no different from other promotional material that's used other names for various characters. If the USUM version turns out to be different, then it can be changed, but at the very least Selene is more official than Moon and everything so far has stated that this is still the same story and characters from the original Sun & Moon.[[User:Five|Five]] ([[User talk:Five|talk]]) 11:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

i think this should be treated like the Silver(game) and Leaf(game) pages where under name origin the page informs the reader that the names are fan designated.--[[User:Aaron's Lucario|Aaron's Lucario]] ([[User talk:Aaron's Lucario|talk]]) 18:47, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
:Sun/Moon are not at all names created by fans. They were very much used officially, as has already been noted above. And as the trivia at the bottom of these pages clearly state. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 19:03, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
:: i see nothing saying Sun/Moon are official only that they were "officially" designated these names by bulbapedia staff--[[User:Aaron's Lucario|Aaron's Lucario]] ([[User talk:Aaron's Lucario|talk]]) 19:20, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
::: i went ahead and made the changes myself if anyone would like to elaborate or make what I wrote more pristine go right ahead but if anyone deletes it I want to see a link to an official source where GF called her Moon. (preferably since the game's release because this site talks about "Scrapped ideas" all the time and i see no difference here) all this talk about anyone can edit and then scaring people out of their wits about writing something that disagrees with the moderators (even if its entirely legitimate) I'm sick of it.--[[User:Aaron's Lucario|Aaron's Lucario]] ([[User talk:Aaron's Lucario|talk]]) 19:20, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
::::To quote what abcboy said above: "Since Sun/Moon were used extensively during the pre-release period, they currently take precedence as the most commonly used English names for the characters in official material." Yes, it's pre-release material, but it's official ''enough''.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 04:28, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
This is still being debated, it seems. We have multiple official sources for both Selene and Mizuki (such as the official Singaporean [http://sg.portal-pokemon.com/goods/plush-toys/171124162050_figma_selene_the_alola_pokemon_trainer_selene_is_joining_the_figma_series.html] and Indian [http://in.portal-pokemon.com/goods/plush-toys/171124162050_figma_selene_the_alola_pokemon_trainer_selene_is_joining_the_figma_series.html] Pokémon sites) and the official Good Smile product page [http://www.goodsmile.info/ja/product/6782/figma+ミヅキ.html] for the figma. The argument used for pre-release media can also apply to the names Elio and Selene, and the fact that Selene has prevailed post-release would, by that logic, make it more official. If I am misunderstanding something, please let me know.--[[User:JB2448|JB2448]] ([[User talk:JB2448|talk]]) 20:44, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

== Move and split ==

May I please rename the page and split it if that's okay? [[User:SaturnMario|SaturnMario]], [[User talk:SaturnMario|his talk]] and [[Special:Contributions/SaturnMario|his contributions]] 23:04, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
:Why? It seems like "Moon" and "Ailey" are still going to be the same character. [[User:GrammarFreak01|GrammarFreak01]] ([[User talk:GrammarFreak01|talk]]) 04:34, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Since Selene did as a character at the official indeed... I think it is necessary to renamed or splited the page (and Elio, too). [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 23:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

:Since Silvally line finally joined the legendary Pokémon, should this page also consider renaming? [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 06:14, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
::Those topics have no relation. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 06:16, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

::What I mean is that since Silvally line added to the legendary Pokémon page because of official statements, why does the official indeed say that the default name of the character, this page has not been renamed? [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 06:37, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
:::Again, no relation. Just because they've officially confirmed that Type: Null and Silvally are legendary, does '''not'' mean they've officially confirmed Moon's (and to an extent, Sun's) names.--[[User:Force Fire|'''F'''orce]][[User talk:Force Fire|'''F'''ire]] 06:46, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
::They are indeed confirmed that the above discussion has list of sources and even has the English sources. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 06:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
:See my discussion [[:Talk:Moon (game)#Rename|below]] and [[:Talk:Sun (game)#Rename|here]] for why the articles should not be renamed from Moon (and Sun). In summary, a PC has no official name unless he/she has an NPC role (either in the same games or later). [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 00:17, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

== Um, what? ==

So what are we mostly agreeing on? Selene/Elio or Ailey/Ray? And where did Ailey/Ray come from? {{unsigned|Mira Zannah}}
:Nobody seems to be agreeing on anything, and this isn't the kind of thing that gets decided by consensus anyway; page moves are decided exclusively by staff. Ailey/Ray are the names used in pre-release media for USUM (screenshots, promotional videos, etc). [[User:Pumpkinking0192|Pumpkinking0192]] ([[User talk:Pumpkinking0192|talk]]) 16:55, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Now we have two Figma/Figure products called Mizuki (=Selene) and have been pre-sale. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 10:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
::Are the data miners done with USUM yet? Because it would probably be in there somewhere, right? --[[User:Mira Zannah|Mira]] [[User_talk:Mira Zannah|Zannah]] 13:22, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

== Mizuki ==

On top of multiple pieces of merchandise using the name, we now have the Nintendo Dream magazine using it *and* with her USUM design to boot. Surely this is now as close to canon as we're going to get.[[User:Five|Five]] ([[User talk:Five|talk]]) 18:15, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
:It is not likely we will use a Japanese name for the page's title. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 20:39, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
:At least this should be the "suggested moved" to Selene currently. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 14:41, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
::Yeah I think so. [[User:Mira Zannah|Mira]] [[User_talk:Mira Zannah|Zannah]] 18:02, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
Can't we at least change the Japanese name section at the top of the page to ''ミヅキ Mizuki''? How is that not considered canon? I understand why we aren't using ''Selene'' right now, but unlike ''Selene'', ''Mizuki'' is being used in Japanese merchandise alongside the other Pokégirls. --[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 15:06, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

== Rename ==
It's pretty much official her name is Ailey. Why didn't we already renamed this article? If so, can I do it? Same with Sun, who is actually named Ray. {{unsigned|Trainer Ray}}
:Do we have any proof besides the pre-release names? There is quite a bit of evidence for Selene/Elio (look earlier on the talk page), but is there anything else for Ailey/Ray? --[[User:Mira Zannah|Mira Zannah]] [[User_talk:Mira Zannah|(Feel free to yell at me)]] 19:33, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
:Neither the ♂ male nor the ♀ female character has an official name per se, because neither of them has an NPC role in the games. The only reason Ethan, Lyra, Brendan, May, Lucas, Dawn, Hilbert, Hilda, Nate, Rosa, Calem, and Serena have such official names is because of their NPC roles when you choose their opposite gender as PC in their respective games; Red and Blue have such official names because of their NPC roles in Gold/Silver/Crystal/etc. So no, let's not rename this article based merely on merchandising practices going on - their provisional fan-assigned names are just OK in the meantime, so long as they are labeled as such (as is being done with Leaf and Silver). I already discussed this reason [[:Talk:Sun (game)#Rename|here]]. [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 23:54, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::I'd argue the amount of merchandise calling her Selene makes it pretty official. If it were one thing, you could maybe assume they were just using whatever they thought sounds good, but the fact we have Goodsmile, Kotobukiya and others calling her Selene makes it pretty evident that this is what Nintendo/TPCi is calling her. Plus these same companies are also using the canon names for other trainer characters, such as Hilda, Rosa, etc, which were previously only confirmed by ingame data.[[User:Five|Five]] ([[User talk:Five|talk]]) 17:57, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Of course, that in-game data was the NPC data for the otherwise-PC-only characters. But the Sun/Moon and Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon PC's don't seem to have NPC data associated with them (not even unused/dummied-out data other than the Kai/Lana names which cannot be taken as official PC names so as to avoid confusion with trial captain [[Lana]]), unless the data miners are still trying to figure it out. [[User:SilSinn9801|SilSinn (Pokémon Sun Trainer ID: 768426)]] ([[User talk:SilSinn9801|talk]]) 05:15, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

== 11 years old. ==

She is 11 years old. Why is it listed as 11-14? {{unsigned|Trainer Ray}}
:More to the point, why do you think she is 11 and not older? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:36, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
::The player character is pretty obviously the same age as Hau, who is 11 years old. Also, "around 11 years old" doesn't go as far as 14.[[User:Trainer Ray|Trainer Ray]] ([[User talk:Trainer Ray|talk]]) 16:38, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
:::"Obvious" is not any sort of evidence, that's assuming. Where do you get "around 11 years old" from? [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:40, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
::::Wicke: "You and Hau are both trial-goers, aren't you? Are you hoping to become champions? I suppose... You must be around 11, then?" Hau is definitely 11 years old as that's also the age for beginning the island challenge, which gives me the impression Ailey is also 11 years old as they begin the island challenge together. {{unsigned|Trainer Ray}}
:::::The thing is, the player comes from outside Alola. Native Alolans might start the trial as soon as they're able to, at 11, but outside Alola you could turn 11, then turn 12, and if you come to Alola, people could be like "You should totally do trials!"
:::::And the thing about "around 11" is, they've plainly not said the player is 11 and no older. It's not at all infeasible that the player could be 12. The real problem is, we can't ''really'' place an upper limit no how old the player might be just from that statement. We may think that "14" or "15" or whatever is too old to be "around" 11, but that's just personal opinion; if official material later claims they're 14, it's not explicitly contradicting anything. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 17:02, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
::::::It still gives misleading information, though. Even if it's not confirmed that they're only 11, there is ''nothing'' implying the 14-15 age range. If you want to account for the ambiguity, list it as "around 11", exactly as stated in the game. Don't imply information that doesn't exist. [[User:Eskay64|Eskay64]] ([[User talk:Eskay64|talk]]) 15:55, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
:::::::My previous comments may have misled you. I was not saying that 14 or 15 ''looked'' like a reasonable upper limit. 14 is an officially supported upper limit. (To be frank, I couldn't say where it comes from off the top of my head, but as a rule we keep tabs on this sort of thing. I'm confident it's in the page history at least.) That's the exact opposite of misleading, so please leave it on the page. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 16:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

== Selene is her name, end of story. ==
https://www.pokemoncenter.com/figures---pins/figures/figma/figma-selene-figure-703-03094 - The official Pokemon Center website. --[[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]] ([[User talk:Master Lucario|talk]]) 20:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
:Mizuki is also used in the same context (Japanese Pokémon Center Online store) - https://www.pokemoncenter-online.com/?main_page=product_list&keyword=オンライン限定ぬいぐるみ_pokemon_time. I 100% agree.--[[User:JB2448|JB2448]] ([[User talk:JB2448|talk]]) 12:21, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
::Given a couple of different names are used in merchandise and pre-release material; it is far safer to stick with Moon as the official name as none of the other names get more than a couple of mention in said material. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 12:57, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
:::In this case, what would be the "straw that breaks the camel's back" for this name change? Both Selene and ミヅキ have been used in numerous official contexts, more than any other name (including Moon).--[[User:JB2448|JB2448]] ([[User talk:JB2448|talk]]) 14:07, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
::::Probably an in-game appearance or eventually after multiple years of constant use of the names Selene/Mizuki by Pokémon themselves. --[[User:DanyyelTR|DanyyelTR]] ([[User talk:DanyyelTR|talk]]) 10:39, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
:It is worth noting that Selene is used on the packaging, not just the introduction on the webpage. [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 15:27, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
::Seeing as the manga also uses the name ''Moon'', it is safer to stick with that name. The article already makes mention that pre-release material gave her various names but outside of the merchandise from pre-release; has never been mentioned as being canon names. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 15:38, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Pokémon Adventures ''always'' uses names based off of game versions, with the sole exception of the Black 2 • White 2 Chapter in English. That has no bearing on the game character whatsoever.--[[User:JB2448|JB2448]] ([[User talk:JB2448|talk]]) 00:22, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Seriously? People here are ''still'' pussyfooting about the canonicity of Selene name after more than a year of this mess? I can't remember what the deal was with the internal names anymore, but Selene/Mizuki's been used in SM's promotional material and this Figma release. Leaf's page no longer has the name discussion header after years of that being a common fanon name and I don't know if that was removed before or after that figure of her with that name was announced earlier today. [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 03:35, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

== Literally why ==
Earlier today, a Kotobukiya figure was announced for Leaf (''https://twitter.com/kotobukiyas/status/1048377301530947584''), a character who has been without a canon name since her debut in 2004. As this is officially licensed merchandise approved by TPC (''merchandise which the subject of this article also possesses''), her article was almost immediately updated with no resistance to remove all references of her name only being corroborated by fanon with the exception of a line acknowledging that was formerly the case. Multiple times since the release of Sun & Moon, the case has been argued in this discussion page that the only "definitive" way to determine a canon name is if the protagonist appears as an NPC, and that official merchandise is invalid or considered less than convenient (''"It's easier to just call her Moon because of her manga counterpart"''). If this is the case, where were the torches for Leaf, who never appears as an NPC and whose name contradicts her manga counterpart's, tonight? What I'm saying is, the absurd stubbornness and delay in updating this article, as well as the male protagonist's, has gotten out of hand. The subject of this article has a Kotobukiya figure, she has a figma, both distributed in English and Japanese. The name used is '''Selene/Mizuki'''. If they wanted her to be "''Moon''" or any of the other names argued on this page, they would have referred to her as such, as they had no problem inaugurating ''Leaf'' as canon. Is it so hard to ask for consistency? --[[User:ThePacisBack|ThePacisBack]] ([[User talk:ThePacisBack|talk]]) 06:17, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
:Those cases are not the same. Leaf was not official. '''Both''' Moon and Selene were (before there were any figures).
:Also: do not confuse regular users' arguments for staff's. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 12:42, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
:<strike>Brendan is also known as Orlando in the pre-release media.</strike> [[User:E9310103838|E9310103838]] ([[User talk:E9310103838|talk]]) 15:57, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
::I'm just going to list out all of the official sources from The Pokémon Company that use Elio/ヨウ and Selene/ミヅキ:
::https://www.pokemoncenter.com/figures---pins/figures/figma/figma-selene-figure-703-03094
::https://www.pokemoncenter-online.com/?main_page=product_list&keyword=オンライン限定ぬいぐるみ_pokemon_time
::https://youtu.be/OF_OrULIEWA?t=71
::https://youtu.be/9Ojd6FzTaEM?t=67
::https://sg.portal-pokemon.com/goods/plush-toys/171124162050_figma_selene_the_alola_pokemon_trainer_selene_is_joining_the_figma_series.html
::http://in.portal-pokemon.com/goods/plush-toys/171124162050_figma_selene_the_alola_pokemon_trainer_selene_is_joining_the_figma_series.html
::Again, these are just from The Pokémon Company directly. If we expand that to sources such as Good Smile and Kotobukiya, the list only gets bigger.
::If Kotobukiya is enough for Leaf ([https://twitter.com/kotobukiyas/status/1048377301530947584 1]), why isn't it enough for Selene ([https://twitter.com/kotobukiyas/status/891464453744508929 2]), let alone all of the official pages and video uploads from The Pokémon Company directly? [[User:JB2448|JB2448]] ([[User talk:JB2448|talk]]) 15:37, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
:::I'll explain it a bit differently one more time since you apparently didn't get it from my previous response...
:::The cases with Leaf and Selene are NOT rightly comparable. [[User:Tiddlywinks|Tiddlywinks]] ([[User talk:Tiddlywinks|talk]]) 11:41, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
::::They are comparable, what do you mean? Pokémon, the >>>OFFICIAL<<< company and site calls it Selene and Mizuki depending on region. There shouldn't even be an argument. JB2448 provided non-debatable points. They all come from Pokemon Company '''directly.''' They're marketing all the toys related to her so far as Selene or Mizuki depending on the region they're selling it in, just like how it is with May or Haruka. Don't quite understand how hard that is to understand to just not rename the page to Selene when there's two official figures out there, one where you can buy right now from their Pokemon Center shopping page that clearly reads '''figma Selene Figure'''. [[User:Oneplusoneis2|Oneplusoneis2]] ([[User talk:Oneplusoneis2|talk]]) 15:38, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::Tiddlywinks, ''come on''. TPC stopped using Moon as a name for Selene outside of Adventures (and maybe USUM's trailers? Honestly I can't remember but it's not like they weren't using Ailey more often) a long time ago. They have been using Selene as her name for '''all''' of the merchandise that calls her by name, and they probably will keep calling her that instead of Ailey and ''definitely'' not Moon if she ever gets solo merch in her USUM outfit. Leaf may have not been an official name and FRLG's trailers might have not shown any names for any of the players in connections showcased in them, but that name is now with that figure's announcement. Selene was called several names during SM's prerelease period, but now they've completely dropped Moon and kept to calling her Selene for her centric merch. It's so far from being difficult to comprehend. [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 16:32, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
::::::At this point, neither the Japanese nor the English are using Moon. Nearly everyone for the past '''several''' months has pushed for Selene. Pokemon Company already lists the item on their store as Selene, they wrote articles calling her Selene, there's nothing left to discuss. The only person in this giant talk discussion for several articles has been Tiddlywinks denying evidence that's really clear and straight from the company that makes the games themselves. Before, Tiddlywinks has said back in 2017 that "Just because X translates to Y, that does not mean that if X is official, so must Y be. The English side can do whatever it wants, we will NOT presume for them. We can wait." Well, it's now literally a year later, there is no '''PRESUMING''', they chose '''Selene'''. They marketed it as '''Selene''' in English. Yet Tiddlywinks claim now is "it's a different case" and that doesn't hold up. That's not a counterargument, it's just a declaration that holds no weight with no support or evidence. JB2448 has listed several places, including official trailers, including official sites, and including the actual store page from Pokémon Company that clearly lists it as '''figma Selene Figure'''. Their description? It's: '''"Selene and Her Friends! Pokémon Trainer Selene, one of the player characters from Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon..."''' [[User:Oneplusoneis2|Oneplusoneis2]] ([[User talk:Oneplusoneis2|talk]]) 18:46, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I’d like to voice my support for renaming these articles— the figures have been consistently using the “canon” names and now they are choosing one name over one that another name (Moon) that basically has the same canonicity, if that’s a word. (And Adventures does not count— they almost always use the game names regardless of any other names that might exist.) I’ve also seen Elio and Selene being the clear fan favorites in the Pokémon community. The only reason not to move this article would be the hassle, but I suppose if that’s kept Weather trio from being renamed to Super-Ancient Pokémon all this time, then I dunno. --[[User:Celadonkey|Celadonkey]] 19:32, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
:From what has been discussed on other pages; internal data and pre-release names take precedence over all other names. Leaf is not comparable as the internal data of the game listed that as her default name. Moon was used the most during pre-release material; thus why that is currently her name. Unless Nintendo officially states that her name is meant to be Selene / Mizuki / Lana; the default is Moon or the name the player chooses to give to her. ''[[User:Frozen Fennec|Frozen]] [[User talk:Frozen Fennec|Fennec]]'' 21:03, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
::Pre-release had Selene/ Mizuki and Moon, Post-release has two official figures that is again, Selene/Mizuki. Nintendo has nothing to do with this, Pokemon is owned by Pokemon Company. Pokemon Company wrote an article listing it as again... Selene/Mizuki depending on the region. The official store '''again''' has it as Selene/Mizuki. It's not hard. [[User:Oneplusoneis2|Oneplusoneis2]] ([[User talk:Oneplusoneis2|talk]]) 21:12, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
:::You staffmembers sure seem adamant about internal data when it comes to names. Bit of a shame that the situation didn't apply to the legendary status of Type: Null, Silvally and the tapu last year where the staff refused to list them as legendaries for months until the shiny distributions stated it loud and clear. [[User:Azureprism|Azureprism]] ([[User talk:Azureprism|talk]]) 21:21, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
:If hassle were the honest concern here I'd struggle to wonder why the suggestion to move was even put forward at all. Surely the options must have been weighed at the time it was suggested that if the campaign to move were successful, then the required work wouldn't be too strenuous, right? I think the opposition is more personal. I've seen many detractors here and there sneer at Elio and Selene out of disdain. From that, the goal may be to deny and delay the move long enough so that everyone either forgets or declares it so far out from Generation VII's launch that there would be no point to revising everything, everyone has already grown accustomed to Moon so leave it there even if it's incorrect on all accounts, thus preserving the name they prefer. Borders on tinfoil, but I find very little reason to actually oppose the move. Even the tired notion that internal data/pre-release names take precedence is itself contradicted by the protagonists that appear as NPCs. Never mind that when that talking point was first cemented (''several generations ago''), merchandise for the human characters was next to non-existent, so there actually ''isn't'' any official stance on what precedence official merchandise might take because the idea of game protagonists getting merch at all was far-fetched. Lastly, if this discussion is so settled, why is it still labeled as open on the article for over a year?--[[User:ThePacisBack|ThePacisBack]] ([[User talk:ThePacisBack|talk]]) 21:30, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Selene (game)

2018-10-06T06:17:07Z

ThePacisBack: